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Game Journals / Re: Retro Encounter Podcast Thread
« Last post by Raven on Today at 02:43:03 PM »
Thanks for the quick fix, I did not run into any further issues after re-downloading it. It was fun to hear FF9 being praised into the heavens :)
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The Soundroom / Re: Favorite Albums of 2017
« Last post by TurnerBasedXP on Today at 02:20:52 PM »
Hanson: Finally It's Christmas. Hands down.
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General Discussions / Re: Whats the haps?
« Last post by Frostillicus on Today at 01:27:16 PM »
Haps: Feeling like a bit of a doofus. I'd been on the same internet package for years, and had ignored Comcast's attempts to upsell me over that time. Came to find out yesterday that the package I was on isn't even offered these days, and I could get speeds over twice as fast for the same monthly rate. I'd been over-paying for who knows how long. Upgrading was a no-brainer. Explains why they had been trying to call me so frequently over the summer.. Can't help but laugh at myself.
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General Discussions / Re: Whats the haps?
« Last post by Tomara on Today at 01:23:28 PM »
Do schools in the US still have classes like home economics? Personal finances would probably fit in best with that, I think.
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General Discussions / Re: Whats the haps?
« Last post by Rucks on Today at 01:07:03 PM »
How much time does it take to teach a normal student "don't spend more than you earn", and "don't borrow what you can't pay off?"  A couple days?  A week?  I don't understand how you can make up a whole course out of that.  Once you've covered the future value of money, aren't you basically done?

there are often systemic and cultural issues at play here that would necessitate a much longer training period for a lot people.  Someone who has never had any money (that wasn't already owed to someone else or needed for basic survival) is usually going to need a lot of help understanding finance.
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General Discussions / Re: Whats the haps?
« Last post by ironmage on Today at 01:03:18 PM »
Looks like Kevadu ninja'ed some of the points I wanted to make.  Anyway:
When I was taking theoretical math classes in high school, my question was always, "When the hell am I ever going to use this in life?"
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Math was always my poorest subject.  I tended to get Cs and Ds in math despite working twice as hard as the other kids (I may have had an undiagnosed learning disability) whereas I could get As in Language Arts and World Language like it was nothing.
I would claim that mental exercise is useful in its own right, and if your math classes made you work hard, they served a purpose.  I find it odd that people think nothing of stepping on a treadmill or pumping iron, but somehow resent the mental equivalent.  I mean, bench-pressing a barbell or doing pushups are pretty useless skills in isolation, but I don't think anyone would claim that good health and physical strength are useless in the real world.

But I ate math classes like candy, and it's easy for someone who likes weight-lifting to preach the benefits of exercise.

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Business/Consumer Math is considered a special-ed math course, yet it's something I think all students would benefit from. 

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I'm not a big fan of the blanket "one size fits all" curricula.  To say that "ALL children will learn geometry" like many of these blanket initiatives proclaim is ludicrous.
I think those viewpoints are inconsistent.  You can't object to the "one size fits all" approach, and then say that everyone would benefit from a remedial class.  Some students may need special education in certain topics, but it does not follow that it should be provided to everyone.  I maintain that most students should learn enough mathematics to handle personal finances through basic coursework.  Balancing a chequebook (does anyone still need to do that?) should be manageable by anyone who passed fourth grade arithmetic.

But I'm inherently prejudiced against this sort of thing.  In my third year of electrical engineering, there was a mandatory "Economics for Engineers" class.  It was generally considered to be a joke.  When you're eating Z-transforms for breakfast and linear algebra for lunch, having someone from the College of Commerce spend a whole week explaining compound interest is just... embarrassing.  I'm sure someone thought it was going to be useful, but it mostly just wasted everyone's time.

On the other hand, the elective I took in contract law was pretty interesting (not to mention practically applicable).  Adding something like that to the highschool curriculum would be reasonable.  I mean, you're entering into a contract every time you buy a doughnut...
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So having one yearlong business/consumer math class isn't going to hurt anything.  It will actually help. 
How much time does it take to teach a normal student "don't spend more than you earn", and "don't borrow what you can't pay off?"  A couple days?  A week?  I don't understand how you can make up a whole course out of that.  Once you've covered the future value of money, aren't you basically done?

If you made me take a whole class in "consumer math", instead of letting me take calculus, it would absolutely have put me at a disadvantage.

I'm not convinced that education will solve what is fundamentally a cultural problem.  Someone who can see their credit card balance rising month after month must know what that means.  If there's no stigma against personal debt, but people want to buy "the new shiny" to keep up with their peers, then of course they're going to ramp up their bills.
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General Discussions / Re: Whats the haps?
« Last post by Rucks on Today at 12:38:26 PM »
^geometric proofs are why I decided to go with liberal arts in college and grad school...
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General Discussions / Re: Whats the haps?
« Last post by Kevadu on Today at 12:27:36 PM »
Maybe some people do need personal finance classes.  I never felt like I had a shortage of that kind of information personally, but I'm sure there are some who don't.  However I object to the notion that it would be a math class...

Frankly the actual mathematics involved in personal finance is pretty trivial.  There is a reason you're seeing the subject covered in special ed.  Stuff like "get a credit card early to start building your credit history" (which is what started this discussion I believe) isn't exactly mathematics.  It's just information about how the system works.

Look, I remember learning how to calculate compound interest in middle school.  We spent a couple of days on it because if you understand exponentiation that's all that is required.  And compound interest is probably the most mathematically complex thing you will ever do in personal finance.  Most of it is simple arithmetic.

If my high school math classes wasted time on that kind of trivial stuff I think I would have felt a mixture of boredom and being insulted by the simplicity of it all.  Give me geometric proofs over that any day.

(note: I went on to get a PhD in physics so I might not be normal...)
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General Discussions / Re: Whats the haps?
« Last post by Dincrest on Today at 10:42:35 AM »
And if I am to look at things like the credit crunch crisis, the subprime mortgage fallout, and all that good stuff, I'd venture to guess that a significant percentage of the parent generation wasn't very good at that "business/consumer math" thing either and it's blind leading the blind at best, if there's any teaching being done at all. 

And I look at my late father.  Genius chemical engineer, probably the most brilliant man I'll ever know.  But his financial savvy left much to be desired.  He grew up in a very wealthy family, but through a Murphy's Law domino effect of bad business deals with shady people, the family lost everything.  All of a sudden, he had nothing and he had never been acclimated to being without.  That's why he totally fell victim to the "buy now, pay later" paradigm of the credit crisis, because he could never come to grips with having caviar tastes on a grilled cheese budget. 

I have a naturally common sense financial savvy, but the system is complicated.  Financing a car, mortgaging a home, interest rates on credit cards, making heads/tails of the most sensible insurances to get, financing your higher education... it's challenging stuff for anybody, whether you have a PhD or a GED.  Yeah, we expect "normal" people to get it or be taught that, but how many really are taught it well, if at all?  For every one of me with excellent credit, there are tens of thousands who have piss poor credit and could not get approved for diddly squat.  They were never taught properly if at all.  So having one yearlong business/consumer math class isn't going to hurt anything.  It will actually help. 

Plus, again, special needs students NEED to be taught business/consumer math, especially so that they can advocate for themselves regarding how their SSI is utilized.  Things that come naturally to us neurotypicals do not come naturally to those with developmental delays or whatnot.  So it's more important to teach them financial acumen over y=mx +b.  Mom and dad won't be around forever, so it's important to make sure they have the tools to be independent.  And an important tool is business/consumer math. 

I'm fine with school math requirements having theoretical components like an algebra class and a geometry class, but the third year math requirement should be applied business/consumer math so you don't fail at life.

Three cheers for civics and business/consumer math!
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General Discussions / Re: Whats the haps?
« Last post by Tomara on Today at 10:12:13 AM »
^um because not every child is a lucky as you were and don't have parents that give a toss about them or their learning habits.

Exactly. Not to mention that there lots of adults who never had the opportunity/ability to gain that knowledge themselves and thus can't pass it on to their children.

One of the lectures in my arsenal is about personal finances, and if everyone was learning that from their parents, there wouldn't be a demand for lectures like that anime conventions.
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