RPGFan Message Boards

The Rest => General Discussions => Topic started by: Akanbe- on September 16, 2011, 07:29:07 PM

Title: Mandatory PS3 update removes right to join class-action lawsuit
Post by: Akanbe- on September 16, 2011, 07:29:07 PM
http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2011/09/mandatory-ps3-update-removes-right-to-join-in-a-class-action-lawsuit.ars

Sony you so crazy. 
Title: Re: Mandatory PS3 update removes right to join class-action lawsuit
Post by: Kevadu on September 16, 2011, 07:30:56 PM
Would this actually hold up in court?  I'm no lawyer...
Title: Re: Mandatory PS3 update removes right to join class-action lawsuit
Post by: Demon_Princess_Kay on September 16, 2011, 09:35:20 PM
Fuck no. At least for people who use fake names like me. Christa Serran signed that agreement so Kaylyn Andrea is free to do as she pleases.
Title: Re: Mandatory PS3 update removes right to join class-action lawsuit
Post by: Eusis on September 16, 2011, 09:40:47 PM
Would this actually hold up in court?  I'm no lawyer...


It can because of the Supreme Court ruling that allowed this to happen in the first place. The recent one involving AT&T as I recall and cellphone contracts.
Title: Re: Mandatory PS3 update removes right to join class-action lawsuit
Post by: Aeolus on September 16, 2011, 11:27:11 PM
Would this actually hold up in court?  I'm no lawyer...


It can because of the Supreme Court ruling that allowed this to happen in the first place. The recent one involving AT&T as I recall and cellphone contracts.

The women workers' v. Walmart case a few months back was the one that the Supreme Court ruled that as corporations are now considered individual citizens it would be unfair to allow the many (a collective of individuals who largely have little to no experience or knowledge of the legal system nor the resources to hire someone who does but shares a common grievance against that which they are suing) to gang up on the one (corporate entity comprised of many individuals, some of whom have years of professional training and experience in conducting legal battles, and others that can easily afford someone who has years of professional training and experience in conducting legal battles in their behalf).

In addition that women working at Walmart don't deserve the same wages and benefits that male workers do.

I'm frankly surprised the Supreme Court hasn't ruled in favor of a corporation forming and keeping a private militia yet.
Title: Re: Mandatory PS3 update removes right to join class-action lawsuit
Post by: Hathen on September 16, 2011, 11:38:41 PM
Would this actually hold up in court?  I'm no lawyer...


It can because of the Supreme Court ruling that allowed this to happen in the first place. The recent one involving AT&T as I recall and cellphone contracts.

Wait, what? Isn't this technically Ex Post Facto- how can the Supreme Court rule for that?
Title: Re: Mandatory PS3 update removes right to join class-action lawsuit
Post by: Eusis on September 17, 2011, 03:38:40 PM
Would this actually hold up in court?  I'm no lawyer...


It can because of the Supreme Court ruling that allowed this to happen in the first place. The recent one involving AT&T as I recall and cellphone contracts.

Wait, what? Isn't this technically Ex Post Facto- how can the Supreme Court rule for that?

Here's the story about the court case. (http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2011/04/scotus-rules-att-can-force-arbitration-block-class-action-suits.ars)
Title: Re: Mandatory PS3 update removes right to join class-action lawsuit
Post by: CDFN on September 17, 2011, 03:43:17 PM
I also thought that this wasn't legal. It's BS.
Title: Re: Mandatory PS3 update removes right to join class-action lawsuit
Post by: Demon_Princess_Kay on September 17, 2011, 10:30:17 PM
I just realized I can still sue Sony, but since I used a fake name and address what can I sue them for?
Title: Re: Mandatory PS3 update removes right to join class-action lawsuit
Post by: Vanguard on September 18, 2011, 12:15:50 PM
Nothing. Harm to an imaginary person isn't a great argument.

On another note, man am I glad I left Sony's ship years ago.
Title: Re: Mandatory PS3 update removes right to join class-action lawsuit
Post by: Eusis on September 18, 2011, 11:26:31 PM
Frustrating thing is EVERYONE'S doing stupid shit, comparatively this is benign simply because it's more the Supreme Court's fault, everyone is apparently just taking advantage of an opportunity they were granted through that court ruling (which means, in theory, MS, Nintendo, maybe even Valve could jump on that boat), but you have Xbox Live's Auto Renew only being allowed over the phone UNLESS you live in Illinois (or fake your address), and Nintendo's digital purchases being bound to the system you bought them and allow undeletable saves.
Title: Re: Mandatory PS3 update removes right to join class-action lawsuit
Post by: Demon_Princess_Kay on September 19, 2011, 05:27:13 AM
The problem with faking the address is that it wont let you use the credit card for anything else unless you have the correct zip code in your address.Though of course there's a possibility you could bypass that by just typing in the wrong zip code after you buy something.
Title: Re: Mandatory PS3 update removes right to join class-action lawsuit
Post by: Adapheon on September 19, 2011, 07:28:31 AM
Man, and I was gonna buy some candy with the $4 I was going to get from that lawsuit. Class actions are useless except to lawyers and the first couple of people to start the lawsuit.
Title: Re: Mandatory PS3 update removes right to join class-action lawsuit
Post by: Vanguard on September 19, 2011, 08:07:25 AM
Regardless, this is Sony telling you, "We will fuck up again in the future, and when we do no collective action can be taken against us."
Title: Re: Mandatory PS3 update removes right to join class-action lawsuit
Post by: Tartarus on September 19, 2011, 10:34:21 AM
Quote
If you decide not to agree to the new agreement, you simply won't be able to play games online.
Don't sign! If you're offline you're safe.  But...err, stay indoors in case Sony tries to force you to sign. 

Is anyone going to bother sending a letter to Sony to opt out?
Title: Re: Mandatory PS3 update removes right to join class-action lawsuit
Post by: Kevadu on September 19, 2011, 12:23:40 PM
Is anyone going to bother sending a letter to Sony to opt out?

I am thinking about it.  Not that I was even planning on suing them but it's the principle of the thing.
Title: Re: Mandatory PS3 update removes right to join class-action lawsuit
Post by: Akanbe- on September 19, 2011, 04:47:47 PM
Man, and I was gonna buy some candy with the $4 I was going to get from that lawsuit. Class actions are useless except to lawyers and the first couple of people to start the lawsuit.

True, but I did get $140 bucks from one before though!
Title: Re: Mandatory PS3 update removes right to join class-action lawsuit
Post by: Eusis on September 20, 2011, 03:49:32 AM
Is anyone going to bother sending a letter to Sony to opt out?

I am thinking about it.  Not that I was even planning on suing them but it's the principle of the thing.

Same. I actually like the IDEA of arbitration, the problem is how will it work in practice? Likely not very well. And the class action thing feels like being kicked while I'm down, because whether or not I send a letter in I'm barred from that.
Title: Re: Mandatory PS3 update removes right to join class-action lawsuit
Post by: Darklight on September 20, 2011, 04:58:53 AM
You guys been following the Drama since Last year? I'm completely over Sony and their BS, Actually i'm over them since they outsued Liksang. Fact is their console really isn't that brilliant to begin with, added with their unwanted attention since sueing Geohot, etc  It's all just drama now.The stupid pricks can't even do Psone classics properly for Europe/Australia, Basically ignore the PAL community.
Title: Re: Mandatory PS3 update removes right to join class-action lawsuit
Post by: DTX180 on September 20, 2011, 05:12:09 PM
man remember when the biggest news stories were things like "what was the best game this year: ocarina of time, metal gear solid, or starcraft?"

I read that article that says "everyone who doesnt like todays games are just too old", and realize its a crock of ****. $20 DLC to unlock something on the DVD, companies playing the "who can screw over the consumer the most without walking the plank". Gaming has become waaaaay to "wall street" for me. If thats me getting too old than fine.
Title: Re: Mandatory PS3 update removes right to join class-action lawsuit
Post by: SonicDeathMonkey on September 20, 2011, 10:30:27 PM
I'm completely over Sony and their BS, Actually i'm over them since they outsued Liksang.

oh yeah, that was lame
Title: Re: Mandatory PS3 update removes right to join class-action lawsuit
Post by: Wild Armor on September 20, 2011, 11:24:38 PM
On another note, man am I glad I left Sony's ship years ago.

Viva La Nintendo.
Title: Re: Mandatory PS3 update removes right to join class-action lawsuit
Post by: Prime Mover on September 21, 2011, 07:28:26 PM
Sony, we don't need you anymore.
Title: Re: Mandatory PS3 update removes right to join class-action lawsuit
Post by: Eusis on September 21, 2011, 07:32:54 PM
The thing that keeps me from wanting to dogpile on Sony is that... well, this stems from the Supreme Court ruling, not just SCEA alone being stupid. It's not improbable the same or similar will happen on XBL and Nintendo's services anyway, meaning you may just be kinda fucked regardless. FAILING that... honestly, each of them has their own advantages/disadvantages, and it'll do us more harm to see Sony go than not. Nintendo's fairly backwards about online functionality, and Microsoft's may be turning into the most antagonistic one towards niche retail releases now that they mandate a minimum 50,000 print run. There's a lot more we don't know about undoubtedly on the developer/publisher side too that may make Sony a favorable choice, though that seems to apply in Japan more than elsewhere.
Title: Re: Mandatory PS3 update removes right to join class-action lawsuit
Post by: CDFN on September 22, 2011, 11:38:38 AM
IGN actually posted something useful:

How To Opt Out of Sony's Class Action Waiver

http://uk.ps3.ign.com/articles/119/1195833p1.html (http://uk.ps3.ign.com/articles/119/1195833p1.html)
Title: Re: Mandatory PS3 update removes right to join class-action lawsuit
Post by: Demon_Princess_Kay on September 22, 2011, 11:50:33 PM
IGN actually posted something useful:

and thus hell has froze over.
Title: Re: Mandatory PS3 update removes right to join class-action lawsuit
Post by: Eusis on September 23, 2011, 05:03:09 AM
IGN actually posted something useful:

and thus hell has froze over.

Balanced out by GiantBomb being a bit more useful. (http://www.giantbomb.com/news/supreme-court-prompted-sonys-restrictive-terms-of-service/3686/)
Title: Re: Mandatory PS3 update removes right to join class-action lawsuit
Post by: ZeronHitaro on September 23, 2011, 05:18:16 AM
*shrugs* Personally, at risk of coming under fire for being too deep in my cave to see the big picture; I think this is a good thing. America (and it's starting to spread outside the borders from what I've heard third hand) is far too much of a litigation culture for my taste. Kids attempting to sue parents, people suing food businesses for either making them "fat" or not warning them hot coffee is hot...it's actually refreshing to see someone say "No, you can't sue us for X."

Also it might actually force consumers to do something useful when they've been legitimately wronged (like the info hack fiasco) aside from running to a lawyer and ultimately causing about as much damage to the company as a gnat on a bull's nose...like maybe...I dunno...actually sticking to a boycott for a change rather than crying "We won't buy!" then doing so once the next shiny comes out?

Just my two coppers anyway.
Title: Re: Mandatory PS3 update removes right to join class-action lawsuit
Post by: Eusis on September 23, 2011, 04:12:08 PM
There needed to be some way to effectively block or at least deter the dumber lawsuits (maybe there WERE effective measures though and the dumb ones got publicized anyway before crashing and burning), but this is an extreme. It basically means if a company royally fucks up, like maybe games en masse vanish on users ala 1984 on Kindle, but with no replacement or consolation offer, no one can really do anything. The threat of the class action lawsuit can help keep these companies inline.

And as I was fearing: It's spreading. (http://www.vg247.com/2011/09/23/ea-inserts-class-action-prevention-clause-into-origin-eula/)
Title: Re: Mandatory PS3 update removes right to join class-action lawsuit
Post by: Akanbe- on September 23, 2011, 04:36:24 PM
And as I was fearing: It's spreading. (http://www.vg247.com/2011/09/23/ea-inserts-class-action-prevention-clause-into-origin-eula/)

If Microsoft doesn't have one already, they will be next.  Ridiculous.

*shrugs* Personally, at risk of coming under fire for being too deep in my cave to see the big picture; I think this is a good thing. America (and it's starting to spread outside the borders from what I've heard third hand) is far too much of a litigation culture for my taste. Kids attempting to sue parents, people suing food businesses for either making them "fat" or not warning them hot coffee is hot...it's actually refreshing to see someone say "No, you can't sue us for X."

Also it might actually force consumers to do something useful when they've been legitimately wronged (like the info hack fiasco) aside from running to a lawyer and ultimately causing about as much damage to the company as a gnat on a bull's nose...like maybe...I dunno...actually sticking to a boycott for a change rather than crying "We won't buy!" then doing so once the next shiny comes out?

Just my two coppers anyway.

This doesn't really stop them from getting sued.  It just attempts to stop a person/organization/lawyer from bringing a case to court on the behalf of a group of people.
Title: Re: Mandatory PS3 update removes right to join class-action lawsuit
Post by: Vanguard on September 23, 2011, 04:40:22 PM
I think you're missing the point, ZeronHitaro. Consumers should expect a level of protection when they trust a company with sensitive information. While I agree that America is sue-happy, this is not the solution. No company will ever lose a lawsuit against an individual without being afforded an appeal they will eventually win by sheer means of having money to throw around.
Title: Re: Mandatory PS3 update removes right to join class-action lawsuit
Post by: CDFN on September 23, 2011, 05:22:40 PM
They will all do it now. If they can, why shouldn't they? It's win-win for them.
Title: Re: Mandatory PS3 update removes right to join class-action lawsuit
Post by: Eusis on September 23, 2011, 06:20:39 PM
They will all do it now. If they can, why shouldn't they? It's win-win for them.

Yeah, this is why statements like Prime Mover's are ignorant. It's an asshole move, but given this is basically free immunity most any company/set of lawyers is going to eagerly leap on this, so you can't really be angry at them (or at least you shouldn't waste your time with a boycott or something) so much as be angry over AT&T and our Supreme Court for enabling this shit.

... Fuck, while I'm not going to hold this against Sony/EA I'm definitely avoiding AT&T as much as I possibly can.
Title: Re: Mandatory PS3 update removes right to join class-action lawsuit
Post by: Aeolus on December 22, 2011, 02:04:33 AM
Bamping this for some good olde fashion yuletide hilarity. (http://www.1up.com/news/class-action-lawsuit-filed-sony-tos)

Looks like Sony forgot something when they came up with this shenanigan.
Title: Re: Mandatory PS3 update removes right to join class-action lawsuit
Post by: Eusis on December 22, 2011, 02:18:27 AM
By the way, I was right about Microsoft adopting similar terms. Fuck, they actually outdid Sony. (http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2011/12/you-cant-opt-out-of-the-no-lawsuits-xbox-360-tos-update-after-all.ars)