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The Rest => General Discussions => Topic started by: Agent D. on April 12, 2012, 10:16:43 AM

Title: Agent D's House of Rant.
Post by: Agent D. on April 12, 2012, 10:16:43 AM
Okay, been posting for a while here, and most of my good posts have been rants and rage induced walls of text. However, they always pertain to a certain topic, so I never get my full two cents in. I am dedicating a thread to my full on rants, and invite any and everybody to join in with their own or comments regarding mine or anyone elses' rants and raves. To kick this thread pff, I give you...

DLC RAGE

Okay, I know we all bitch about it and such, but dlc is getting ridiculous. 15 years of console gaming never once required me to buy additional content. Granted I don't have to buy it now, but that's like saying I don't have to pay for the bacon on my bacon cheeseburger....WHY DO I FUCKING ORDER A BACON CHEESEBURGER TO HAVE TO BUY BACON FOR IT AFTERWARDS?! I buy a goddamn game to play the game, not to see if they bring more stuff out so the okay game I bought will be less shitty later. What the fuck, when did it become okay to leave shit out of a game and sell it later? If sony sold me a new tv without a power cable, you bet your ass I'm getting my power cable for it immediately. This is such horseshit, and what makes it worse are the fucking masochistic fanboys who approve of dlc, and forcefeed it down everyone's face that dlc is good, etc etc. Fuck you, dlc is horsecock and we all know it. Capcom and it's fucking lame dlc maps for a game that isn't even fucking out yet, and then to really rub iodine in your open dick sore, they get EXCLUSIVE DLC based on where you fucking buy the game! Fuck that, I am not down with this shit, best buy is nowhere near me, and amazon is always second day after release, I am stuck with lamestop. LET'S ASSUME I buy the game right now, if my friend gets his from best buy, I don't even get to play the same dlc with him now.

I work as an audio video installation tech. I know I have used this reference before, but it really fits. If I was hired to install a television and sound system for a customer, then my job entails installing the television display either on a wall mount or a standard mount, and installing their chosen sound system, be it a multi channel surround system or a sound bar. I do not put the tv on a stand and turn it on and say done, but if you want to see an image, I have to charge you additional fees for hooking it up to a source, that's fucking part of the installation. If I don't finish installing it that day, I come back and finish, not tell them it's almost done and leave, and then charge them more to come back do the rest after we agreed on a price. This is proper business etiquette, anything else would be pathetic and an insult to my profession.

SO WHY THE FUCK IS IT OKAY FOR GAME COMPANIES TO SELL US UNFINISHED SHIT AND CHARGE US MORE TO FINISH THEIR GAME?! WHY DO WE AS CONSUMERS GET FUCKED? WHY DO THE MORONS WHO DECIDED TO TAKE A RISK AND SUPPORT A GAME COMPANY AND BUY THEIR FUCKING GAME GET PERPETUALLY BUTTFUCKED AND SCREWED FOR THEIR DEDICATION? WORST OF FUCKING ALL, WHY DO WE KEEP FUCKING BUYING THIS BULLSHIT STORY OF DLC BEING OKAY?!

Fuck dlc, I am so fucking tired of it. At least ffxiii-2 is almost offering decent content, but capcom and its horseshit can die.
Title: Re: Agent D's House of Rant.
Post by: Dincrest on April 12, 2012, 10:36:32 AM
I'm still old enough to remember the days when computer games worked perfectly right out of the box and I didn't have to download patches and stuff. 

I don't enjoy giving monetary rewards for peoples' mistakes. 
Title: Re: Agent D's House of Rant.
Post by: Vanguard on April 12, 2012, 11:09:38 AM
You know what really grinds my gears?
Title: Re: Agent D's House of Rant.
Post by: Agent D. on April 12, 2012, 11:23:37 AM
You know what really grinds my gears?
I was going to title the topic that, but I was ranting way before Peter Griffin.
Title: Re: Agent D's House of Rant.
Post by: John on April 12, 2012, 11:30:04 AM
I'm still old enough to remember the days when computer games worked perfectly right out of the box and I didn't have to download patches and stuff.  

I don't enjoy giving monetary rewards for peoples' mistakes.  

I don't remember any sort of days like that.  I remember days when you loaded up games and had to deal with any bugs that they had.  I remember when games cost $80-90 in 1994 dollars, not $60 in 2012 dollars.  (Chrono Trigger would have cost you more than $110, adjusted for inflation.  Virtua Racing would have been almost $140.)  I remember when expansion packs for games cost you almost as much as the original title and often times didn't give you as much as some of the DLC packs you see.  I'd rather have Broken Steel or Old World Blues over retail expansion packs like Age of Empires 2: The Conquerors.

Now, I don't disagree that non-aesthetic DLC for pre-orders is kind of garbage, I think that the rose-tinted glasses that people look through when they look at the past of gaming really do cloud their judgment.  Things in the days of yore were not as peachy keen as you remember them.

Fact of the matter is, I don't buy Agent D's line of "Why do I have to buy bacon afterwards?".  You don't.  If you want to buy the fries and the drink afterward, you're more than welcome to dip into the DLC, but the burger's on your plate.  Just the same, I'm sure that you charge your customers for mounts and cabling that they don't already have.  You come in with the assumption that DLC is part of an "unfinished game", and I don't believe that that's true for a majority of games.  Don't get me wrong - I am pissed when there is "bad" DLC; listen to my rant on the latest podcast about how Namco Bandai handles their DLC, which I think everyone agrees is absolutely horrendous.

I don't even think Day 1 DLC is bad - when the content guys are finished 2-3 months before the game goes live because of QC, they have something to do - create DLC.  DLC only has an 8-12 week gestation period, usually, so that's enough time to create and debug what they've got.  In the "old days", these folks would be placed on new games or laid off.

We're paying less for games than we ever have before in the disc-based world, when games are becoming more and more expensive to produce.  Would you pay $90 for Skyrim if it had additional development time?  That's what pricing was like in the cartridge days.  Today, we have access to games via digital media that cost $10 or $15 that would have cost full MSRP in the SNES era.  We have some of the best deals available in gaming today, and everyone just seems to think the old days were better.
Title: Re: Agent D's House of Rant.
Post by: Agent D. on April 12, 2012, 11:44:14 AM
I don't agree John, games aren't cheaper. Some games were more expensive then compared to niw, but not all of them. Playstation games only cost between 40 and 50 dollars back 15 years ago, and ps2 games were generally 49.99 (all prices US because lolidk currency conversion) and that's only 10 years ago. Snes and sega days, honestly I am hard pressed for remembering as I wasn't buying games then, I was only 7 when I got an snes. I do remember Mega Man X being a shockingly high 70 bucks, but look who made it, one of the biggest offenders of my douchebag dlc hate, Capcom. We can throw around inflation all we like, but honestly, I am making now what I made 10 years ago, and my dad who does the same type of work now that he did 20 years ago also does roughly the same, only the demands got harder. If anything, companies are saturating the market now, releasing multiple titles far more quickly then back during the snes days. I admit, the 16 bit era is a bit fuzzy, but 32 bit and above I can defend fully. Games cost less and generally offered as much content, at a loss of visuals and maybe voice acting. Any real gamer can tell you that graphics don't make a game.

As for the burger comment, I meant it as an actual item like buying a bacon cheeseburger at a specified price, and then being told the bacon is a seperate item, your burger is just abke to support the bacon. You still need to buy it.
Title: Re: Agent D's House of Rant.
Post by: ZeronHitaro on April 12, 2012, 11:53:34 AM
Yeah; I gotta call shenanigans on the 'games are cheaper now' statement too. I was a child during the NES/SNES era and I could actually afford games on an allowance. I bought titles like Super Mario RPG and Megamax X for $20 off the Wal-Mart shelves. Even during the PSOne era titles never cracked more than $40; which I could easily get by 'redirecting' my lunch money for 2-3 weeks easily.

Even used it takes over a year and to be generally disliked/bad for a current era title to drop that low. If you were paying top pricing like that for cartridges you were either impatient or being scammed big time. I even remember the days when Chrono Trigger sold for about $15 when my local movie rental stores were clearing out old product. If only I knew then what I knew now...
Title: Re: Agent D's House of Rant.
Post by: Agent D. on April 12, 2012, 12:08:09 PM
Yeah; I gotta call shenanigans on the 'games are cheaper now' statement too. I was a child during the NES/SNES era and I could actually afford games on an allowance. I bought titles like Super Mario RPG and Megamax X for $20 off the Wal-Mart shelves. Even during the PSOne era titles never cracked more than $40; which I could easily get by 'redirecting' my lunch money for 2-3 weeks easily.

Even used it takes over a year and to be generally disliked/bad for a current era title to drop that low. If you were paying top pricing like that for cartridges you were either impatient or being scammed big time. I even remember the days when Chrono Trigger sold for about $15 when my local movie rental stores were clearing out old product. If only I knew then what I knew now...
In his defense, snes games like chrono trigger , or even worse an original Earthbound with thr strategy guide, were extremely expensive. I know that, but they are a handful compared to the rest of the nornal priced games.
Title: Re: Agent D's House of Rant.
Post by: John on April 12, 2012, 12:19:22 PM
I don't agree John, games aren't cheaper. Some games were more expensive then compared to niw, but not all of them. Playstation games only cost between 40 and 50 dollars back 15 years ago, and ps2 games were generally 49.99 (all prices US because lolidk currency conversion) and that's only 10 years ago. Snes and sega days, honestly I am hard pressed for remembering as I wasn't buying games then, I was only 7 when I got an snes. I do remember Mega Man X being a shockingly high 70 bucks, but look who made it, one of the biggest offenders of my douchebag dlc hate, Capcom. We can throw around inflation all we like, but honestly, I am making now what I made 10 years ago, and my dad who does the same type of work now that he did 20 years ago also does roughly the same, only the demands got harder. If anything, companies are saturating the market now, releasing multiple titles far more quickly then back during the snes days. I admit, the 16 bit era is a bit fuzzy, but 32 bit and above I can defend fully. Games cost less and generally offered as much content, at a loss of visuals and maybe voice acting. Any real gamer can tell you that graphics don't make a game.

As for the burger comment, I meant it as an actual item like buying a bacon cheeseburger at a specified price, and then being told the bacon is a seperate item, your burger is just abke to support the bacon. You still need to buy it.

Genesis/SNES era games were expensive.  VERY expensive, especially when you got to larger cartridge sizes.  This wasn't a Capcom thing - Chrono Trigger was $80.  Virtua Racing was $100.  Sonic 2 was $65.  My parents got me Where In Time Is Carmen Sandiego? for Genesis for my birthday when I was a kid.  That was $65.

See, I can't even agree that games in the 32-bit era (or even many in the 64-bit era) have as much content.  Games today tend to have online components.  Dual inputs from a single console are simple to code compared to online coding.  That adds 2-3 members to your dev team.  Same goes for modern 3D graphics, sound effects, music, etc.  All of these things used to be done by teams that were smaller - or going back far enough - even by one guy.  These size teams are actually still very prevalent - working on PSP/DS/3DS/Vita titles.  Which are all  in the $50 or less price range.

Your definition of "any real gamer" is likely only a very small portion of the actual target audience for a game.  I hate to break it to you, but video games are a product.  It matters that you match up to the competitors in the market.  Just as a movie that had special effects like the original Star Wars would likely not be very successful due to its lack of widespread appeal, a game with outdated graphics is likely to be unsuccessful with a wider market.

If you think titles are being released more rapidly now, I think you are mistaken.  Look especially at the end of the PSone era and the middle of the PS2 era, when companies were releasing game after game with the same engine.  2K released EIGHT Spec Ops games in four years.  You saw the beginning of the Dynasty Warriors overkill (which, I will fully admit, continues today).  Six Rainbow Six games were released in three years.  Crash Bandicoot?  Spyro the Dragon? SOCOM? Medal of Honor? All series with multiple releases within a very short timeframe in the PS2 or PSone era.

You'd be lucky if your fighting games had more than an arcade mode and a versus mode in the 32-bit days.  Tekken 3's Tekken Force and Tekken Ball modes were pretty damn amazing for their times, and it's pretty much expected now that fighters will have a fully-developed story mode.  When they don't (like SCV), they get trashed.  This is all stuff that costs development time.  I certainly don't begrudge the fact that publishers added $10 to the MSRP pricepoint moving from consoles that supported mostly SDTV to those that supported HDTV.  Development costs rise.  We're still getting a much better deal than we were in the 16-bit era.

Yeah; I gotta call shenanigans on the 'games are cheaper now' statement too. I was a child during the NES/SNES era and I could actually afford games on an allowance. I bought titles like Super Mario RPG and Megamax X for $20 off the Wal-Mart shelves. Even during the PSOne era titles never cracked more than $40; which I could easily get by 'redirecting' my lunch money for 2-3 weeks easily.

Even used it takes over a year and to be generally disliked/bad for a current era title to drop that low. If you were paying top pricing like that for cartridges you were either impatient or being scammed big time. I even remember the days when Chrono Trigger sold for about $15 when my local movie rental stores were clearing out old product. If only I knew then what I knew now...

Are we talking about price of older product or MSRP?  If you don't want to pay for DLC, go buy a copy of Oblivion Game of the Year brand new for $20.  Obviously games get cheaper over time as new product comes in.  That's how the market has always worked and that's how it continues to work today.  I can buy Persona 3 FES off of PSN for $10 today.  That doesn't change the fact that the original was $50 when it was released and FES was $30.  Just the same, you can buy the DS version of CT (and likely an old SNES cart) for $20.  That doesn't change that it had an MSRP of $80 on the SNES.

If you think that price drops are uncommon today, I have to call bullshit on that.  Let's see... on games released since the beginning of the year, on Amazon, not even hunting for sale pricing for 2 or 3 minutes:

Soul Calibur 5, MSRP $60: $44 (http://www.amazon.com/Soul-Calibur-V-Xbox-360/dp/B003O6EA4E/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1334246922&sr=8-1)
Mass Effect 3, MSRP $60: $48 (http://www.amazon.com/Mass-Effect-3-Xbox-360/dp/B004FYEZMQ/ref=pd_ts_zgc_vg_4924903011_3?ie=UTF8&s=videogames&pf_rd_p=1355521642&pf_rd_s=right-6&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_i=14220161&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=0MPRJRMCPMGJ8V6HZXP3)
SSX, MSRP $60: $30 (http://www.amazon.com/SSX-Xbox-360/dp/B003O6C9LK/ref=zg_bs_4924903011_21)
Final Fantasy XIII-2, MSRP $60: $30 (http://www.amazon.com/Final-Fantasy-XIII-2-Xbox-360/dp/B003O6EBRA/ref=zg_bs_4924903011_22)
Kingdoms of Amalur: Reckoning, MSRP $60, $51 (http://www.amazon.com/Kingdoms-Amalur-Reckoning-Xbox-360/dp/B0044SA70M/ref=zg_bs_4924903011_33)

Going back to titles released in the Holiday of last year.

Tropico 4, MSRP $50: $20 (http://www.amazon.com/Tropico-4-Xbox-360/dp/B004H0H890/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1334247223&sr=8-1) I got the PC version of this for $5 late last year.
Gears of War 3, MSRP $60: $37 (http://www.amazon.com/Gears-War-3-Xbox-360/dp/B002I0H79C/ref=zg_bs_4924903011_17)
Batman Arkham City, MSRP $60: $35 (http://www.amazon.com/Batman-Arkham-City-Xbox-360/dp/B002I0JAVK/ref=zg_bs_4924903011_24)
Assassin's Creed Revelations, MSRP $60: $36 (http://www.amazon.com/Assassins-Creed-Revelations-microsoft-xbox-360/dp/B004YVOCYG/ref=zg_bs_4924903011_25)
Dead Island, MSRP $60: $33 (http://www.amazon.com/Dead-Island-Xbox-360/dp/B004PAGJOC/ref=zg_bs_4924903011_55)
Dark Souls, MSRP $60: $37 (http://www.amazon.com/Dark-Souls-Xbox-360/dp/B004NRN5DU/ref=zg_bs_4924903011_64)
Sesame Street: Once Upon A Monster, MSRP $50, $17 (http://www.amazon.com/Sesame-Street-Once-Monster-Xbox-360/dp/B004OCK9KG/ref=zg_bs_4924903011_73)
Rage, MSRP $60, $13 (http://www.amazon.com/Rage-Xbox-360/dp/B00354NAYG/ref=zg_bs_4924903011_77)
Title: Re: Agent D's House of Rant.
Post by: Kevadu on April 12, 2012, 12:28:12 PM
I was going to comment, but John beat me to it.  He said everything I was going to say...

But in addition to the fact (and it is a fact, you can't just ignore inflation...) that games are cheaper now than ever before, development costs are higher now than ever before.  It's a peculiar situation, and developers have to find some way to make money.

Though personally I hate the nickel and diming.  I actually would prefer to just pay more (and wait longer) for the complete product.  But I feel like I'm in the minority there.
Title: Re: Agent D's House of Rant.
Post by: ZeronHitaro on April 12, 2012, 12:35:53 PM
XIII-2 already dropped that low? ._.; Well damn. My local branches must just suck then. I don't often see newer games at a used price below $49.99 even months after release. Although I'll confess my statement is more or less made in the vein of 'Going into a shop and casually browsing every other week' than 'hard research'. XD

_______________

Depending on the line of argument; I'd say that inflation actually can be ignored because it works more in theory for cost estimates than in practical application.

Example: My aforementioned statement that in High School I purchased games with my lunch budget. I'd get by usually just buying a pizza pocket or something out of the local hotboxes. Pizza pockets cost about $1.50 then. I can go down to the gas station here in 2012 and get the same food for the same price regardless of inflation.

So as such:
1990s- $10 per week from school budget. New game costs $40 most. One game per 4 weeks.
2012- $10 per week from school budget (if I were still doing such). New game costs $60 most. One game per 6 weeks.

That is a marked increased in gaming expense. So while the laws of inflation say 'games are cheaper', the law of physical money in the wallet says 'games are not cheaper'.
Title: Re: Agent D's House of Rant.
Post by: Hathen on April 12, 2012, 01:40:42 PM
It might just be that your realization of the value of money from being an adult has caused you to feel like games are more expensive than when you were a kid. =P
Title: Re: Agent D's House of Rant.
Post by: dyeager on April 12, 2012, 01:41:21 PM
I was going to throw out more stats on just how much cheaper games are not just based on inflation but average game prices, used game market, etc. - but let me just say instead that you CAN'T ignore inflation. It matters. If you don't think so then the argument just grinds to a total halt because we are no longer talking about the same thing - one side is talking about reality and the other fantasy.
Title: Re: Agent D's House of Rant.
Post by: dyeager on April 12, 2012, 01:50:48 PM
Also, totally agree with John on the issue of BUGS. There was almost no recourse back in the day if you bought a buggy game, and although it is a "mistake" it is absolutely unreasonable to expect every single possible bug to be caught before release because no matter how large your QA team, thousands of players will come up with scenarios you simply never thought of no matter what you do. Public betas help but there is no substitute for putting the game (or any software product) in the hands of users. They will find a way to break it. That's just part of doing business, it's not an attempt to screw people over.

Also, I just don't think all DLC is bad. The Amalur DLC (Legend of Dead Kell) was absolutely fantastic and well worth the $10 price tag, but didn't detract in any way at all from the original game if you didn't have it. There are ways to do this right. I get the original point that some companies (Bioware) appear to be going down a path where DLC is coming very close to required (I'm thinking ME2 more than anything proposed around ME3 actually) and that's taking us into weird territory for sure - but it has never been a better time to be a gamer than right now.
Title: Re: Agent D's House of Rant.
Post by: Agent D. on April 12, 2012, 02:03:48 PM
Okay, part of the rant is the ability to come back when less rage-fueled and see things with a more open outlook. Maybe I was a bit bullheaded stating inflation doesn't impact it so greatly, and I do admit that there is some dlc that isn't a huge kick in the balls. However, my rant was pretty much based solely at capcom right now, and EA to an extent. They are releasing games with extra content already taken into account. Yoda mentioned it in the re6 thread, 3 different stores, 3 different "exclusive"dlc packs, meaning 3 weeks later we can assume they will be on sale for spme ludicrous amount of money. I can also point that at ffxiii-2, with the pre order bonus horseshit that they release later as dlc. This kind of fluff dlc is where my rage really triggers. Deus ex human revolution had a whole dlc episode, 14.99 at release, that in terms of comparable play time, was MAYBE 1/20th of the content of the main game. How can you fairly charge 15 bucks for content of a game that cost 60 bucks and it doesn't even have 1/10 the content, nor can you play it without the actual game present? Companie are making whole games for that price (skullgirls for example) and without even owning it I can safely say it has more than 5 hours of gameplay.

So yes, I can safely say I did rage with a slight bias, but you can't blame a guy for being tired of getting fucked over by an industry he stood behind since he could stand.
Title: Re: Agent D's House of Rant.
Post by: Hathen on April 12, 2012, 02:07:34 PM
As I understand it, games are pretty much always released in a "unfinished" state in the eyes of the developers. You had games where it was apparent like Fantasia for the Genesis, which didn't even have polished game mechanics. Chrono Cross was a finished game, but it was pressured into release before they had tons of other stuff they really wanted to add to the game. Both of these were before the days of DLC.

I think video games are pretty much the only art product where this happens on a regular basis.
Title: Re: Agent D's House of Rant.
Post by: Vanguard on April 12, 2012, 02:15:58 PM
I think most creative endeavors fall into that category, actually.
Title: Re: Agent D's House of Rant.
Post by: dyeager on April 12, 2012, 02:58:03 PM
You have to remember too that in the eyes of developers, it is rare indeed for a thing to feel "finished". I have this same problem at work when it comes time for a new release - I almost always feel like there are a few things I could have tightened up or done differently or more elegantly, but in the end you have to actually release a product or you never actually get paid. You do the absolute best you can with the timetable you have.

I think the old expression "A work of art is never finished, only abandoned" may apply here in a way. At least nowadays with DLC it takes longer for it to be abandoned. :-P
Title: Re: Agent D's House of Rant.
Post by: dyeager on April 12, 2012, 03:06:07 PM
In fact, just ask John how long it takes me to be happy with projects around here... I'm sure he could give you some horror stories...
Title: Re: Agent D's House of Rant.
Post by: Dincrest on April 12, 2012, 04:48:32 PM
Dave, John- yeah, I see your points.  Good, valid, and perhaps that moment of rose-colored nostalgia got the better of me. 

The fact that bug fixes are so much easier these days is good.  The only issue I'd take is if that ease is used as a crutch to rush out a project to the public.  Of course, that's more in the hands of publishers than developers.  And you know, publishers do wield some evil power.  I don't need to tell all the college students about how publishers price-gouge the hell out of textbooks and then render them obsolete the next semester when a new edition comes out.  And when some books cost $150 a pop these days...
Title: Re: Agent D's House of Rant.
Post by: Akanbe- on April 12, 2012, 05:28:51 PM
I was going to comment, but John beat me to it.  He said everything I was going to say...

But in addition to the fact (and it is a fact, you can't just ignore inflation...) that games are cheaper now than ever before, development costs are higher now than ever before.  It's a peculiar situation, and developers have to find some way to make money.

Though personally I hate the nickel and diming.  I actually would prefer to just pay more (and wait longer) for the complete product.  But I feel like I'm in the minority there.

I wonder how much snes and sega carts in Japan cost back in the day compared to current day Japanese prices for PS3 games?
Title: Re: Agent D's House of Rant.
Post by: Monsoon on April 12, 2012, 07:53:34 PM
I for one welcome our new digital overlords.  Games are cheaper than ever, most of the AAA games are multiplatform, and there is a burgeoning indie scene that is stronger and more visible than ever.  We'd never have that in a gaming culture without digital distribution - DLC is an inevitable symptom of the new digital model.  And hey, if you don't like it, don't buy it.  Vote with your dollars.  But I'm not complaining because DLC is helping to save the gaming industry while used game sales and piracy are trying to destroy it. 
Title: Re: Agent D's House of Rant.
Post by: dyeager on April 12, 2012, 08:51:33 PM
Dave, John- yeah, I see your points.  Good, valid, and perhaps that moment of rose-colored nostalgia got the better of me. 

The fact that bug fixes are so much easier these days is good.  The only issue I'd take is if that ease is used as a crutch to rush out a project to the public.  Of course, that's more in the hands of publishers than developers.  And you know, publishers do wield some evil power.  I don't need to tell all the college students about how publishers price-gouge the hell out of textbooks and then render them obsolete the next semester when a new edition comes out.  And when some books cost $150 a pop these days...

Excellent point on publishers. I definitely think dlc can be used for evil, I just don't think as a concept it is inherently bad.
Title: Re: Agent D's House of Rant.
Post by: John on April 12, 2012, 09:03:04 PM
Dave, John- yeah, I see your points.  Good, valid, and perhaps that moment of rose-colored nostalgia got the better of me. 

The fact that bug fixes are so much easier these days is good.  The only issue I'd take is if that ease is used as a crutch to rush out a project to the public.  Of course, that's more in the hands of publishers than developers.  And you know, publishers do wield some evil power.  I don't need to tell all the college students about how publishers price-gouge the hell out of textbooks and then render them obsolete the next semester when a new edition comes out.  And when some books cost $150 a pop these days...

Excellent point on publishers. I definitely think dlc can be used for evil, I just don't think as a concept it is inherently bad.

Agree completely.  Namco Bandai is the worst at it.  See: Graces f, Tales of and Combat, Ace.
Title: Re: Agent D's House of Rant.
Post by: MeshGearFox on April 12, 2012, 09:08:21 PM
computer games worked perfectly right out of the box

That never happened :( It's just that back then the patches were /free/.

Anyway, my issue with DLC was explained elsewhere -- it's a channel for devs to constantly /redact/ their work in a way that wasn't economically feasible with patches. Patches are maintenance to fix things that are legitly broken. DLC let's you just outright re-write stuff to the point where you CAN bend to the whims of the fanbase. Which kind of puts artistic integrity at risk.
Title: Re: Agent D's House of Rant.
Post by: Agent D. on April 12, 2012, 09:16:20 PM
I for one welcome our new digital overlords.  Games are cheaper than ever, most of the AAA games are multiplatform, and there is a burgeoning indie scene that is stronger and more visible than ever.  We'd never have that in a gaming culture without digital distribution - DLC is an inevitable symptom of the new digital model.  And hey, if you don't like it, don't buy it.  Vote with your dollars.  But I'm not complaining because DLC is helping to save the gaming industry while used game sales and piracy are trying to destroy it. 
And this, sir, is the logic that allows companies to pull the bullshit that I hate. "If you don't like it, don't buy it." It has nothing, I repeat, NOTHING to do with liking anything. It's the fact that dlc is getting outrageous. Announcing downloadable maps 6 montgs before release for example, IS BULLSHIT. Companies are making games knowing full well they are going to put bullshit add ons into the game a week later for a price, and generally a price that isn't fairly adjusted to what you are getting. Yes, I admit that piracy and used game sales are hurting companies as well, but it furthers my stance on people being stupid. People blindly buy dlc because not buying it won't solve anything, someone else will buy it. It's that kind of crap that forces smart people or even worse, people with ideas, to pull off a stunt like the sony hack. The idiots run around en masse doing shit that anyone else in the world with a complete thought would denounce immediately.

Basically, I'm at the point where raising the price on games to further content would be fine. I understand how hard work deserves proper pay, but at the end of the day, joe programmer at game maker company B isn't getting a bonus for bringing out dlc later, he gets paid weekly for services performed. Dlc is just wasted effort on a game that 2-3 months after it comes out is old news. Rather see time spent making the next game not suffer from stupid problems and not needing content added later.
Title: Re: Agent D's House of Rant.
Post by: ZeronHitaro on April 12, 2012, 09:18:09 PM
Which kind of puts artistic integrity at risk.

This is a sentiment I kinda call hogwash due to experience with the novel publication process. Stories go through beta reads, editor reads, and live field tests via e-books. Fan feedback is used to see if things need altered or clarified; not always but sometimes including tweaks to the plot. Movies also have things like this with early test screenings where scenes, story elements, and even endings can be changed based on what the 'fans' want. All before the general public even sees the final result. I'd bet good money games go through a similar process (albeit not as thorough as the others; if ME is any indication).

So the thought line that changing something because the fans say so hampers artistic integrity is a misnomer; it already happens and no one's cried foul yet.
Title: Re: Agent D's House of Rant.
Post by: Lard on April 12, 2012, 09:27:41 PM
I used to get pissed off by it.

I just gave up. Now if I hear a game has DLC I automatically wait a year for a game.

Then I either pick up the GOTY edition for cheaper than the original game was or I buy it used, for a price I find acceptable for an incomplete game.

Works for me.
Title: Re: Agent D's House of Rant.
Post by: Monsoon on April 12, 2012, 10:03:08 PM
I for one welcome our new digital overlords.  Games are cheaper than ever, most of the AAA games are multiplatform, and there is a burgeoning indie scene that is stronger and more visible than ever.  We'd never have that in a gaming culture without digital distribution - DLC is an inevitable symptom of the new digital model.  And hey, if you don't like it, don't buy it.  Vote with your dollars.  But I'm not complaining because DLC is helping to save the gaming industry while used game sales and piracy are trying to destroy it. 
And this, sir, is the logic that allows companies to pull the bullshit that I hate. "If you don't like it, don't buy it." It has nothing, I repeat, NOTHING to do with liking anything. It's the fact that dlc is getting outrageous. Announcing downloadable maps 6 montgs before release for example, IS BULLSHIT. Companies are making games knowing full well they are going to put bullshit add ons into the game a week later for a price, and generally a price that isn't fairly adjusted to what you are getting. Yes, I admit that piracy and used game sales are hurting companies as well, but it furthers my stance on people being stupid. People blindly buy dlc because not buying it won't solve anything, someone else will buy it. It's that kind of crap that forces smart people or even worse, people with ideas, to pull off a stunt like the sony hack. The idiots run around en masse doing shit that anyone else in the world with a complete thought would denounce immediately.

Basically, I'm at the point where raising the price on games to further content would be fine. I understand how hard work deserves proper pay, but at the end of the day, joe programmer at game maker company B isn't getting a bonus for bringing out dlc later, he gets paid weekly for services performed. Dlc is just wasted effort on a game that 2-3 months after it comes out is old news. Rather see time spent making the next game not suffer from stupid problems and not needing content added later.
I've dismissed that bullshit you hate because it's part of the system.  Games are 1,000,000x more complicated and expensive to make then they were 10-15 years ago, but gamers' expectations have only amplified in that time, so we gamers expect the same level of quality on the same timetable and at roughly the same price (even though games sell for cheaper than ever).  And it doesn't help that piracy and the used game market are more powerful than ever, making success in the game industry tougher than ever.  Don't even get me started on shit like the hours developers have to work or the rate of turnover. 

And really. it's extremely rare that a game is SO incomplete at release that it REQUIRES downloadable content in order to be recognized as a full game - the best example I can think of is the 2008 Prince of Persia, but even then you had a solid game on your hands without touching the epilogue DLC.  I like some DLC and don't like others, so I'll buy some and not others.  I've been gaming for over 20 years and have been following the game industry with zeal for the last 10-12, but I'm not about to get mired in oldschool elitism. 
Title: Re: Agent D's House of Rant.
Post by: MeshGearFox on April 12, 2012, 11:17:42 PM
Which kind of puts artistic integrity at risk.

This is a sentiment I kinda call hogwash due to experience with the novel publication process. Stories go through beta reads, editor reads, and live field tests via e-books. Fan feedback is used to see if things need altered or clarified; not always but sometimes including tweaks to the plot. Movies also have things like this with early test screenings where scenes, story elements, and even endings can be changed based on what the 'fans' want. All before the general public even sees the final result. I'd bet good money games go through a similar process (albeit not as thorough as the others; if ME is any indication).

So the thought line that changing something because the fans say so hampers artistic integrity is a misnomer; it already happens and no one's cried foul yet.

The issues more that they can endlessly go back and fuck with shit. You don't have to actually be committal with what you're doing. Something's not complete when it's /complete/ but when it becomes financially pointless to continue working on it.

Also fan feedback is usually pretty poor because fans generally have no idea what they actually want.
Title: Re: Agent D's House of Rant.
Post by: ZeronHitaro on April 12, 2012, 11:24:29 PM
Which kind of puts artistic integrity at risk.

This is a sentiment I kinda call hogwash due to experience with the novel publication process. Stories go through beta reads, editor reads, and live field tests via e-books. Fan feedback is used to see if things need altered or clarified; not always but sometimes including tweaks to the plot. Movies also have things like this with early test screenings where scenes, story elements, and even endings can be changed based on what the 'fans' want. All before the general public even sees the final result. I'd bet good money games go through a similar process (albeit not as thorough as the others; if ME is any indication).

So the thought line that changing something because the fans say so hampers artistic integrity is a misnomer; it already happens and no one's cried foul yet.

The issues more that they can endlessly go back and fuck with shit. You don't have to actually be committal with what you're doing. Something's not complete when it's /complete/ but when it becomes financially pointless to continue working on it.

Also fan feedback is usually pretty poor because fans generally have no idea what they actually want.

Point; but don't they do that sorta thing with comic books already? If I recall correctly the whole Paralax storyline of the Green Lantern comics was ended due to fan bashlash. But admittedly it's been too long since I came across that information to speak to the accuracy.
Title: Re: Agent D's House of Rant.
Post by: Agent D. on April 12, 2012, 11:28:56 PM
See, I don't think fans "don't" know what they want, but more specifically, they don't speak up when they approve of a game. People who hate something are quite vocal, but if you like it, you just roll with it. I for example, like mass effect 3. I have yet to send some feedback pertaining to my enjoyment of the game, , but the millions of fans who raged about sure spoke their minds. It's like those silly surveys you are asked to take when you go to a store or call a customer service center and decide not to do them. If I were not pleased with the service, you bet your ass I would fill it out and complain.
Title: Re: Agent D's House of Rant.
Post by: Agent D. on April 14, 2012, 08:51:20 PM
New rant.

I fucking hate, I mean seriously fucking hate, rude people. You know when you do something courteous for a person, like hold a door open or pick up something they dropped or something similar, the general response to said action is AT THE VERY FUCKING LEAST  a thank you. But then you get that one fucking prissy ass, tight wad, stick so far up his ass he bends at a perfect 90 degree angle to tie his shoelaces piss ant who seems to think your existence was to do for him at that time whatever it was you did, and you should be thankful the opportunity to do such a task was presented to you, much less expect any sort of acknowledgement for performing it. I am exiting a store in the city 3 days ago, just some shitty deli where I nabbed a pepsi, and a lady and her male friend were leaving right behind me. I had my hands full carrying tools and my drink, but i still proceeded to hold the door open for the lady and her friend. The lady was about to say something, but her douchebag asshole grabbed her arm and jerked her along, and then when I smiled politely, he fucking sneered at me, and I swear he called me a twat under his breath. The fucking douchecake piece of shit, I had no interest in his fucking lady friend, who was easily 15 years older than me, nor did I give any sort of disgusted look or smirk or anything. i was just being nice, smiled while I held the fucking door open, and basically did the polite thing, and he calls me a twat.

So naturally, I call him a fucking pussy fart piece of shit, and quite loudly as well.

He turns around, grills me, and walks off, whilst I flip the bird. I tell you all, it doesn't fucking pay to be nice. Cute girls think I'm being a perv and looking to scope a view, guys think I should have been honored to hold the door, old people always stop and talk to me saying I have such nice red hair (mostly old ladies), and the one gay guy I could easily spot literally walked through the other door to AVOID ME.

Fuck people, you all suck. Hold your own goddamn doors open from now on.
Title: Re: Agent D's House of Rant.
Post by: MeshGearFox on April 15, 2012, 08:55:27 PM
No shush, back to DLC.

I wonder if companies are going to start offering the /base/ game for free, given how people complain about DLC, and just make all the money on DLC, under the assumption that people will be willing to pay for DLC If the base game is free.

At which point we're basically back to a shareware model again.
Title: Re: Agent D's House of Rant.
Post by: Kevadu on April 15, 2012, 09:24:31 PM
Er, you basically just described the free-to-play model, Mesh.  And it's huge.

Of course the trick with free-to-play stuff is to make the DLC essentially required if you want to do well in the game, even if it isn't technically necessary to play it.
Title: Re: Agent D's House of Rant.
Post by: MeshGearFox on April 15, 2012, 09:59:30 PM
Er, you basically just described the free-to-play model, Mesh.  And it's huge.

Of course the trick with free-to-play stuff is to make the DLC essentially required if you want to do well in the game, even if it isn't technically necessary to play it.

Kevadu no i mean like offering the first part of the game for free. Or offering a big, open-world game ala morrowind with a few included quests, but you have to buy other quest packs in an episodic manner.
Title: Re: Agent D's House of Rant.
Post by: Monsoon on April 15, 2012, 11:04:07 PM
Dude, the guy was right.  You just described a free-to-play model that's being implemented all over the place.
Title: Re: Agent D's House of Rant.
Post by: Andrew on April 15, 2012, 11:29:39 PM
Cute girls think I'm being a perv and looking to scope a view, guys think I should have been honored to hold the door, old people always stop and talk to me saying I have such nice red hair (mostly old ladies), and the one gay guy I could easily spot literally walked through the other door to AVOID ME.

How do you know what all those people think of you? Are you not just being self-conscious/paranoid?
Title: Re: Agent D's House of Rant.
Post by: Agent D. on April 16, 2012, 05:36:16 AM
Cute girls think I'm being a perv and looking to scope a view, guys think I should have been honored to hold the door, old people always stop and talk to me saying I have such nice red hair (mostly old ladies), and the one gay guy I could easily spot literally walked through the other door to AVOID ME.

How do you know what all those people think of you? Are you not just being self-conscious/paranoid?
...if I knew what people were thinking exactly at the time, I'd probably be more pissed off, and violent about it. Honestly, people's faces pretty much lead you to what they're thinking, at least in general. Of course, you can't always be accurate in assumptions.
Title: Re: Agent D's House of Rant.
Post by: Ashton on April 16, 2012, 06:42:16 AM
Door rant
I honestly think this depends on where you live, and what your countenance is. Northern California has some of the most laid back people I've ever met, who greet you for no reason, and are generally very pleasant. New Yorkers are assholes. I've never actually had an experience like yours, but my girlfriend says it's because I'm 'imposing,' and I have no clue what it means because I'm a 5'8" Asian and I'm far and away the last person I'd think of when I think 'imposing.' Maybe the air you give off is one of a doormat, so people will be tremendous fuckwads to you? Dunno. There could be lots of other reasons too.
Title: Re: Agent D's House of Rant.
Post by: Maxximum on April 16, 2012, 02:48:44 PM
@Rant nr2

You sir, are suffering for the "one bad review" syndrome. One twit didn't appreciate the gesture and suddenly its just not worth it. Get over it man, no need to pop a vain over a single prick that crossed your path.

@Rant nr1
Truth be told, its not DLC that's the problem, but how its done. There's four main types: the Additional content, the cosmetic content the exclusive content and the stripped or locked out content. Obviously, the last two are the ones causing the stink. The problem is that hardly anyone has the will power to be a responsible consumer and boycott a game. Most people will opt for one of two options, either pirate the game or throw in the towel and shell out the cash. The problem is that both of these options hurt honest consumers. Pirates not only push companies to develop more DRM which at best is just a pain in the ass and at worst actually impends people from playing a legally purchased game. It also gives the perfect excuse for bloated prices and other money grabbing tactics because "they have no choice". On the flip side, we have people who just spread their legs, bend over and let companies like EA pound them in the backside like a money filled piniata. As odd as it may sound, buying the game on launch and agreeing to thins kind of consumer treatment is just as hurtful, because it greenlights these kinds of practices (and worse) for the future. The only responsible thing to do is a boycott (and being very vocal about it helps too). But, lets face it, hardly anyone will choose that path and opt for one of the other two instead. Even I wouldn't pass up on buying Mass Effect 3 if I thought my PC would do it justice. The problem is, that at the end of the day we're just as much to blame as the "evil DLC mongers".
Title: Re: Agent D's House of Rant.
Post by: dyeager on April 16, 2012, 03:00:22 PM
...if I knew what people were thinking exactly at the time, I'd probably be more pissed off, and violent about it. Honestly, people's faces pretty much lead you to what they're thinking, at least in general. Of course, you can't always be accurate in assumptions.

That type of suspicion sounds stressful. :-)
Title: Re: Agent D's House of Rant.
Post by: Akanbe- on April 16, 2012, 04:25:56 PM
@Door rant - I generally agree that it could be "one bad review" syndrome as Maxximum said or just the area you live.  I'll hold the door open for someone as I walk out (which would avoid your scoping a view issue) and 99% of the time someone says thanks, but honestly, if they look like a bitch or douchebag, i don't hold it open for them.  Maybe I'm just an asshole myself =P

@DLC - Anyone hear about the shit Ninja Gaiden 3 pulled with DLC?  Apparently they made a ton of the weapons DLC and will release them "as they go".  Katana (default weapon), Claws, and Scythe are the only free weapons apparently.
Title: Re: Agent D's House of Rant.
Post by: Aurian on April 16, 2012, 04:29:20 PM
I do get that they want to make sure more new games sell as opposed to used games. I didn't have a problem with some bonus content for new game buyers or if its just some cosmetic crap that doesn't make a real difference in game (outfits? special steeds? a new weapon?).  

The problem starts to occur if:

1) its changing to preorder or special edition buyers - only those who can drop a lot of $$$ on a game they don't even know is good yet.  Yes, its nice to get a preorder or special edition bonus of some sort, but DLC content starts to feel tacky. The company doesn't get better sales if its preorder vs new.

2) It is something that would have contributed greatly to the game *cough* ending *cough*

3) Or if I am left with the feeling that after I shelled out $60 or so, I don't have the full game. Because that is what I am paying for right? DLC later on to add to an existing full game? No problem with that.
Title: Re: Agent D's House of Rant.
Post by: Agent D. on April 16, 2012, 08:30:54 PM
Regarding the "door" rant, you guys are sort of missing the important aspect, that was the reference that pushed me forward to a rant. I have been far beyond courteous over the years, beyond just holding doors open. Picking up dropped items, apologizing for BEING bumped when someone passes me (it actually knocked a poor little girl over once, she ran straight into me, her mother yelled at me for being a creepy perv when I helped her up). I'm not saying it's always like this, but the negative reactions generally linger far longer than a hasty thank you. Maybe it's the one review thing some of you mentioned, but yeah it's how I am seeing it now a bit. Hopefully I'm just bitter...but idk.

As for the dlc rant, I actually had an arguement with a friend who said he was against dlc, but refused to not buy it because his actions would effect nothing. When I said what if you me and all your friends stop buying it, and your friends get their friends and they get theirs etc etc, he said they wouldn't stop buying it either because it wouldn't have an effect. So his answer to how to deal with it was if someone writes up abpetition, he'd sign it but still buy dlc. Long story short, americans are so fucking stupid it hurts my brain.
Title: Re: Agent D's House of Rant.
Post by: Hathen on April 18, 2012, 10:19:47 AM
i hate people that make entire threads so they can rant because nobody visits their personal blog

i mean what's up with that
Title: Re: Agent D's House of Rant.
Post by: Agent D. on April 18, 2012, 10:32:02 AM
i hate people that make entire threads so they can rant because nobody visits their personal blog

i mean what's up with that
I like discussions pertaining to my rants, and the topic is for ranting in general. Now see, you could have opened up a whole can of bitching here regarding this, but you chose a 2 line jokey insult. For shame dude, for shame.

Besides, blogs are strange. I feel like I would have to write in it all the time, and I don't care to. If I were to write every day about bullshit, you can be damn sure I'll be getting paid for it. Here, I can write what I want, when I want, and not feel obligated to do so.
Title: Re: Agent D's House of Rant.
Post by: Monsoon on April 18, 2012, 05:29:25 PM
Eh, I call bullshit (basically I agree with Hathen).  You're not doing this on a blog because you don't want to feel obligated to update it, you're not doing this on a blog because a forum gives you a ready-made audience while a blog is just as likely to go unread.  
Title: Re: Agent D's House of Rant.
Post by: Vanguard on April 18, 2012, 10:06:11 PM
Where's Yoda with the burnsauce gif thing when you need him?
Title: Re: Agent D's House of Rant.
Post by: Yoda on April 18, 2012, 10:18:58 PM
I was having sex with someone's mother/wife/court appointed guardian

(http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/9665/burnsauce.gif)
Title: Re: Agent D's House of Rant.
Post by: Agent D. on April 19, 2012, 09:25:54 AM
Eh, I call bullshit (basically I agree with Hathen).  You're not doing this on a blog because you don't want to feel obligated to update it, you're not doing this on a blog because a forum gives you a ready-made audience while a blog is just as likely to go unread.  
You could always not reply, though not doing so would be a shame as it could be a worthy rant sir.
Title: Re: Agent D's House of Rant.
Post by: Maxximum on April 20, 2012, 07:55:46 PM
Well, if this is a rant thread, then here's mine.

I'm officially boycotting Capcom. I always thought EA would be the first to cross the line but somehow Capcom has managed to beat them to it. The constant BS surrounding their fighters, the stink around the undeletable save games and now, Asuras Wrath.
The game that retails at full price with around six hours of content, now has DLC thats...drum roll please...the freaking ENDING to the game. That's right guys and gals, the good folks over at Capcom are marketing their new paid DLC as the "true ending", which to me is a major dick move. They really don't have much to defend themselves with either. Everything I've seen so far seems to indicate that Ninja Therory is taking a giant dump over DMC with Capcoms blessing, Dragons Dogma looks like a bad attempt to jump on the WRPG band wagon and Operation Racoon City is apparently a disgrace to the RE franchise.
Title: Re: Agent D's House of Rant.
Post by: Yggdrasil on April 20, 2012, 08:32:38 PM
The constant BS surrounding their fighters, the stink around the undeletable save games and now, Asuras Wrath.
The game that retails at full price with around six hours of content, now has DLC thats...drum roll please...the freaking ENDING to the game. That's right guys and gals, the good folks over at Capcom are marketing their new paid DLC as the "true ending", which to me is a major dick move.

The best part when they announced that DLC is that all the mess with the Mass Effect 3 ending was happening.

About their fighting games, if you don't like them don't buy them (I don't). Easy.

Everything I've seen so far seems to indicate that Ninja Therory is taking a giant dump over DMC with Capcoms blessing

I still don't understand how that game is a prequel and a reboot. How does that work? It doesn't make any sense.

Dragons Dogma looks like a bad attempt to jump on the WRPG band wagon

And that's bad? ...alright.

Operation Racoon City is apparently a disgrace to the RE franchise.

Is a spin-off so no much damage was done to the main series. In the other hand, not much people care about RE: Revelations and that game is not bad.

If anything, it is better than RE5 but the "problem" is that the game is on 3DS.
Title: Re: Agent D's House of Rant.
Post by: Maxximum on April 20, 2012, 08:46:32 PM
About their fighting games, if you don't like them don't buy them (I don't). Easy.

Wouldn't be much of a boycott if I did, would it :)

And that's bad? ...alright.

Doing a western style RPG isn't bad, but DD looks like a lazy attempt to monetize on the trend. This is based entirely on the footage I've seen since I obviously haven't played it (and most likely won't, even when it comes out, as a result of my boycott).
Title: Re: Agent D's House of Rant.
Post by: Monsoon on April 21, 2012, 06:11:32 AM
Dragon's Dogma is anything but "a lazy attempt" at anything.  That game looks gorgeous and I'll definitely at least play the demo.  They certainly put work into it. 

But I'm mostly with you on their fighting game bullshit.  I am a die-hard fan of Street Fighter IV.  When Super SF4 came out, no-one really complained because it was great.  It was about 16-18 months after the US release and over 2 years after the Japanese release.  It added 10 new characters, a new balance patch, better online, and a few new extras like stages and multiplayer modes.  Super SF4 was a good deal.  Then they started releasing more and more costume packs (...) and a new Arcade Edition adding just four characters about a year after Super (...?) and the disc-only Ultimate Marvel vs. Capcom 3 only eight months after the original without fixing the busted online (!!!) and now Street Fighter X Tekken has already announced DLC characters and modes when the game has been out for about a month (RAAAGE!!!). 

I dunno much about this Asura's Wrath stuff, but as a diehard fan of Capcom's fighting games, I am officially disgruntled.  Street Fighter IV is still great, and I'll happily keep playing that, but I am a little outraged at the UMvC3 stuff (it wasn't even DLC!!!  You had to buy a new copy!!!) and haven't played Street Fighter X Tekken yet as a result.  I'm interested in Dragon's Dogma and want to play their new Monster Hunter titles, but I'm disappointed in Capcom's recent behavior.  Capcom is still one of my three all-time favorite game developers, but right now I'm not terribly proud of that fact. 
Title: Re: Agent D's House of Rant.
Post by: Yoda on April 21, 2012, 02:24:57 PM
What footage has he seen? The long previews that are out there recently show some pretty slick looking graphics
Title: Re: Agent D's House of Rant.
Post by: ZeronHitaro on April 21, 2012, 02:35:52 PM

I still don't understand how that game is a prequel and a reboot. How does that work? It doesn't make any sense.


Not really a DMC fan here; but if you don't understand how a prequel and a reboot can in essence deal damage to the image, lore, and legacy of a pre-existing franchise when dumped into the lap of someone who obviously doesn't care, then I suggest you watch Michael Bay's Transformers trilogy.
Title: Re: Agent D's House of Rant.
Post by: Monsoon on April 21, 2012, 03:08:56 PM
They've gone on the record as saying that it's a totally new DMC unrelated to the first four. So it's either a reboot or an alt-universe kind of deal. On top of that, it's a younger Dante than ever, so I guess it takes place earlier  in his life than 3 does. So it's a prequel and a reboot? Sorta.
Title: Re: Agent D's House of Rant.
Post by: Ashton on April 21, 2012, 03:18:26 PM

I still don't understand how that game is a prequel and a reboot. How does that work? It doesn't make any sense.


Not really a DMC fan here; but if you don't understand how a prequel and a reboot can in essence deal damage to the image, lore, and legacy of a pre-existing franchise when dumped into the lap of someone who obviously doesn't care, then I suggest you watch Michael Bay's Transformers trilogy.
Did you ever watch G1? Methinks you are looking at things with rose tinted glasses.
Title: Re: Agent D's House of Rant.
Post by: Akanbe- on April 21, 2012, 05:12:48 PM
Well, if this is a rant thread, then here's mine.

I'm officially boycotting Capcom. I always thought EA would be the first to cross the line but somehow Capcom has managed to beat them to it. The constant BS surrounding their fighters

More or less how I feel.  The only way Capcom would ever see a cent from me again is a new Breath of Fire (not happening) or re-release of CvS2.  I wouldn't even consider buying a CvS3 because it would be full of their bullshit again.  Lots of other fighting games out on the horizon that's not being touched by Capcom.

@Monsoon - To be fair, AE felt like they were more or less trying to bring the arcade version up to speed in Japan since that scene is still doing well in other countries.  I'm guessing having a non-crossover title having its definitive version on a console hit a bit of a sore spot.
Title: Re: Agent D's House of Rant.
Post by: ZeronHitaro on April 21, 2012, 06:21:50 PM

I still don't understand how that game is a prequel and a reboot. How does that work? It doesn't make any sense.


Not really a DMC fan here; but if you don't understand how a prequel and a reboot can in essence deal damage to the image, lore, and legacy of a pre-existing franchise when dumped into the lap of someone who obviously doesn't care, then I suggest you watch Michael Bay's Transformers trilogy.
Did you ever watch G1? Methinks you are looking at things with rose tinted glasses.

I've seen G1. It was full of repetitive plot points with a lot of superfluous characters and more animation errors than a Korean pirate Kung-Fu Z list movie has translation flubs.

But at the same time Michael Bay's stuff came out 'Transformers: Animated' aired. It had superior robot designs, better plot arcing, less groan worthy dialog, and human characters that weren't piss-poorly written. It too was a 'reboot', but that didn't blow chunks like it's live action counterpart.

My point being Michael Bay's stuff didn't suck 'because it wasn't G1'; it sucked because it was a worthless piece of filth that left a blight on the Transformers legacy due to the disrespect the material's concept was given. Thus enforcing my point that a 'prequel/reboot' can and will damage the integrity of a franchise as a whole (as really you can't think Transformers anymore without cock n' ball jokes and racist personifications now thanks to MB) despite the whole 'we're erasing everything and starting over' aspect when not handled with care/respect.
Title: Re: Agent D's House of Rant.
Post by: Agent D. on April 21, 2012, 06:54:18 PM
Capcom's shit is seriously starting to stink up video games. The lack of a new breath of fire, the dlc crap, the terrible RE spinoff, the destruction of dmc, and my forever hate of capcom, the lack of new mega man and the cancellation of legends 3.

Re6 is already a foot in the grave, and anything else they have planned can fuck a truck right now.
Title: Re: Agent D's House of Rant.
Post by: Ashton on April 21, 2012, 07:05:18 PM
I've seen G1. It was full of repetitive plot points with a lot of superfluous characters and more animation errors than a Korean pirate Kung-Fu Z list movie has translation flubs.

But at the same time Michael Bay's stuff came out 'Transformers: Animated' aired. It had superior robot designs, better plot arcing, less groan worthy dialog, and human characters that weren't piss-poorly written. It too was a 'reboot', but that didn't blow chunks like it's live action counterpart.
I don't see how anyone can say that Animated had 'better robot design,' and it was treated about the same as G1 (AKA a vehicle to sell toys). I can see people liking Animated over the movies for the story and characters, but the robot designs were terrible.
Title: Re: Agent D's House of Rant.
Post by: Maxximum on April 21, 2012, 07:17:34 PM
What footage has he seen? The long previews that are out there recently show some pretty slick looking graphics

Why would you assume I based my opinion entirely on graphics? The gameplay vids I've watched just didn't strike me as anything special. It doesn't really matter though because, even if it ends up being GOTY material, I'm still not going to play it.
Title: Re: Agent D's House of Rant.
Post by: ZeronHitaro on April 21, 2012, 07:27:15 PM
I've seen G1. It was full of repetitive plot points with a lot of superfluous characters and more animation errors than a Korean pirate Kung-Fu Z list movie has translation flubs.

But at the same time Michael Bay's stuff came out 'Transformers: Animated' aired. It had superior robot designs, better plot arcing, less groan worthy dialog, and human characters that weren't piss-poorly written. It too was a 'reboot', but that didn't blow chunks like it's live action counterpart.
I don't see how anyone can say that Animated had 'better robot design,' and it was treated about the same as G1 (AKA a vehicle to sell toys). I can see people liking Animated over the movies for the story and characters, but the robot designs were terrible.

Casting aside my personal opinions (as I believe Animated has the best design for Megatron's robot and vehicle modes, period; and my love for how they approached Triple Changers in Animated), Animated has superior character design over the Live Action because regardless of how good or bad they may be artistically you can still tell characters apart from sight alone. Even the Starscream Clones in animated, despite intentionally being duplicates of the original at least had enough variation to tell who was who at a glance.

Once the LA versions starting doing anything besides sitting around for conversation pieces it really becomes impossible to tell who is who. (Obvious exceptions like Optimus' red coloration and the twins because of height/size being not withstanding.) IMO; that definitively places LA on the bottom of the barrel as any design that makes it impossible to distinguish characters is a bad one. (Unless you're trying to make a 'stormtrooper effect'.)
Title: Re: Agent D's House of Rant.
Post by: Ashton on April 21, 2012, 07:30:09 PM
Well, I liked the movie designs a lot more than Animated, though I think the newest version (Prime) has a very good balance between the two, and the story is much better as well, so it's widely regarded as one of the best entries in the series thus far. I know I'm definitely enjoying Prime a lot more than Animated, mainly because the animation quality on Animated was HORRIBLE.
Title: Re: Agent D's House of Rant.
Post by: ZeronHitaro on April 21, 2012, 07:52:09 PM
This is true. I haven't gotten too far into Prime but I'm rather enjoying it despite my natural disdain for all things CGI; even the character designs strike a chord.
Title: Re: Agent D's House of Rant.
Post by: Yggdrasil on April 21, 2012, 08:26:24 PM
The only way Capcom would ever see a cent from me again is a new Breath of Fire (not happening) or re-release of CvS2.  I wouldn't even consider buying a CvS3 because it would be full of their bullshit again.

Pretty frustrating how true this is. 2 years ago I remember really wanting a Capcom vs. SNK 3, but now... I rather waste my money in another fighting game. Though maybe I'll buy Darkstalker 4 on day 1 depending how ends up being.

But right now, Persona 4 Arena, Tekken Tag 2 and even Dead or Alive 5 look better than any fighting game Capcom has made this generation (at least in my opinion anyway).
Title: Re: Agent D's House of Rant.
Post by: AJR on April 24, 2012, 10:15:28 PM
The new DMC looks fun, especially with the last full trailer they released. I feel like Ninja Theory have always been close to making something really good, and I'm hoping this game will be it. The stink that arose when the first trailer was released made me feel genuinely bad for being a fan of the series. I sometimes like to forget how entitled people can be, but following that game made it hard to ignore.

I'm totally fine with most DLC. I'm also generally not someone who buys it. I bought a 360 about a year after it came out, and in that time I've bought maybe 2 pieces of DLC. It's pretty rare that I've felt like a game was incomplete and needed DLC to finish it off. The only stuff I generally agree with is that Capcom are being really weird about it for their fighters. I've stopped myself from buying any of the recent ones I've seen around for cheap because I honestly didn't know at the time if I was buying the most complete versions or not. I think that's a genuine problem.

Also; agent dude, your door rant sounds crazy to me, and your follow up posts seems just as worrisome. I think counselling could be really beneficial for you.
Title: Re: Agent D's House of Rant.
Post by: Agent D. on April 24, 2012, 11:26:45 PM
You did see that the topic title is "house of rant" correct? It's a rant, because I usually am pissed about it at the time of writing. Speaking of good rants...

Have you ever had to deal with someone elses "handiwork" like cleaning up a section of a store that someone had been working on, only it's a bigger disaster then before they started? In my line of work, home a/v installation, alot of times I have to go into someones home, find cables through walls, and fix problems with equipment. Now don't get me wrong, most of the time.....well maybe half of the time it isn't so bad. Something silly like an infrared repeater falling off a cable box making your programmed remote not work, or an amplifier fuse burning out, or said amplifier failing and needing a replacement. Hell, a funny one was a rat bit through speaker cable, I had to giggle a bit. But then, there's the poor handiwork. Like some asshole electrician who ran some rg-6 cable through a wall and left 2 FUCKIN INCHES OF BARE CABLE STICKING OUT OF A HOLE THE SIZE OF A DIME WITH THE CABLE BOX LOCATED AT THE MOTHER FUCKING OTHER SIDE OF THE ROOM kind of silly handiwork. Clients don't wanna hear about how you have to run a cable across the room, the want it back in a wall, which I might add is now freshly painted and the painters don't wanna hear about how they're gonna have to repaint later when we fuck up the wall. Even better,  when I finish laying out 200 feet of cat-6 shielded cable, terminate the ends (ever try that, it's not fun) and mark where the lines run on the opeb wall, and then some twat fuck of a construction worker cuts the cable because he thought it was on the wrong side of a stud? 2 hours of passing cable through walls, all down the drain because some moron can't fucking look. Expensive cable at that. Or today's massive shitfest, which is actually a regular occurence. I walk into an apartment to fix a vent fan for a equipment rack. Apparently the genius who installed the fan installed it backwards, leading to air being pulled in. After fixing fuck up number one, I was asked to replace a few power cables with higher quality ones (the guy I work for is all about high end, the receiver in this rack was 6,000 dollars alone....don't ask about the three different amplifiers), which was easy...on paper. See, the last person back behind this rack didn't think anyone would ever touch it again, because every cable was fully stressed, crossed over another cable, and hanging in by a thread. Small units were falling down, the rack had no space for a large hand ( I ain't tiny), and overall, it was a disaster. 4 hours behind this rack fixing this buttfucks asshat job, should have taken 25 minutes. A half of a day wasted with bullshit. I don't care about the pay, this was ridiculous. If someone has to follow my work in a place, I am damnsure going to make sure he or she understands what I did and where everything is going to or coming from, as well as not leave it like a giant pig sty. What the fuck, it takes an extra minute to tidy a cable up, or label a line that travels a mile through a wall. Even when I worked at radioshack, I always got stuck redoing the home entertainment section, and the previous guy who would "fiddle" with it would leave cables hooked up going nowhere, tangled with other cables and putting stress on them, occupying spots in a distribution amplifier that would degrade signal to other units, and so on. Cmon, clean up your damn work. I like being proud of what I have done, don't most of you have a desire to feel proud of your work?

Fucking eh.
Title: Re: Agent D's House of Rant.
Post by: Yoda on April 25, 2012, 12:23:31 AM
I hate the new practice of mods replacing usernames with their first names. I don't know why, but I do. It's not like I have anything against anyone personally. In fact I have it whenever people around here throw around 1st names like we're supposed to know.
Title: Re: Agent D's House of Rant.
Post by: Agent D. on April 25, 2012, 12:32:22 AM
I hate the new practice of mods replacing usernames with their first names. I don't know why, but I do. It's not like I have anything against anyone personally. In fact I have it whenever people around here throw around 1st names like we're supposed to know.
It does kinda kill the whole impersonality of the internet, doesn't it?
Title: Re: Agent D's House of Rant.
Post by: Kevadu on April 25, 2012, 01:40:17 AM
I hate the new practice of mods replacing usernames with their first names. I don't know why, but I do. It's not like I have anything against anyone personally. In fact I have it whenever people around here throw around 1st names like we're supposed to know.
It does kinda kill the whole impersonality of the internet, doesn't it?

No, Facebook did that.
Title: Re: Agent D's House of Rant.
Post by: Agent D. on April 25, 2012, 10:10:24 AM
I hate the new practice of mods replacing usernames with their first names. I don't know why, but I do. It's not like I have anything against anyone personally. In fact I have it whenever people around here throw around 1st names like we're supposed to know.
It does kinda kill the whole impersonality of the internet, doesn't it?

No, Facebook did that.
Facebook killed a lot more than the impersonality of the internet.
Title: Re: Agent D's House of Rant.
Post by: Agent D. on April 30, 2012, 04:17:33 PM
Been almost a week since I ranted, and sadly it isn't a good one.

Fucking pidgeon shit on my head while I ate lunch today and watched a bunch of fucking useless wastes of space teenagers sit around union square smoking, drinking, and throwing trash around. They were there supporting occupy wall street.

For people like that, I hope nothing but ill will upon them. Get off your asses, put down your fucking iphone and ipad and shit, and go get a fucking job. Stop wasting your parents' money and hard working peoples' time, you useless pieces of shit. God, I can't believe how fucking lame these kids are. My crippled father who can barely walk, much less carry a power drill is still fucking working, what the fuck makes you special? Your trust fund not getting a high enough %, or are you mad that someone is doing less than you and getting more money for it? Fucking useless pieces of shit, people like them don't deserve rights, they deserve a kick to the teeth and a one way ticket out of america.

Don't get me wrong, I don't necessarily disagree with occupy wallstreet, I just find that people who use it as an excuse to not work and make total asses of themselves are fuckholes. Why do we have to work so damn hard to get by meanwhile these twitheads who are basically our future leaders are sitting around getting drunk at 12 and 1 pm. Fuck you dickheads, joing the rest of the world.
Title: Re: Agent D's House of Rant.
Post by: Yoda on April 30, 2012, 04:19:21 PM
As an outside observer it sounds like you're more unhappy with your life than you are mad at them.
Title: Re: Agent D's House of Rant.
Post by: Vanguard on April 30, 2012, 04:25:46 PM
Don't get me wrong, I don't necessarily disagree with occupy wallstreet, I just find that people who use it as an excuse to not work and make total asses of themselves are fuckholes. Why do we have to work so damn hard to get by meanwhile these twitheads who are basically our future leaders are sitting around getting drunk at 12 and 1 pm. Fuck you dickheads, joing the rest of the world.

I'm not sure you know what you're talking about.
Title: Re: Agent D's House of Rant.
Post by: Agent D. on April 30, 2012, 04:31:11 PM
As an outside observer it sounds like you're more unhappy with your life than you are mad at them.
I was unhappy with my life way before this shit, and don't get me wrong I'm not poor, I do pretty well. But I work for it, and I know most of, if not everyone here also works for it.

I think I'm just reverting to my old " angry" self. I used to be an incredibly angry person, had to see a counselor in grade school for it, and I had serious rage issues. After three years of weekly visits and a change to a public highschool, it sort of throttled. But in the last 2 years it's progressively getting harder to stay optimistic. I wake up usually in pain from a back problem I haven't had time to deal with, my father every day is getting a bit more inept( and a bit more senile), my sisters are more and more pathetic, people around me are more irritating, work schedules are more demanding and less rewarding...I could go on for a while.  I'm not depressed...just angry...all the time lately. I started a new skies of arcadia legends playthrough this week too...it's not helping much.

I think I need a weed dealer.
Title: Re: Agent D's House of Rant.
Post by: Agent D. on April 30, 2012, 04:44:35 PM
Don't get me wrong, I don't necessarily disagree with occupy wallstreet, I just find that people who use it as an excuse to not work and make total asses of themselves are fuckholes. Why do we have to work so damn hard to get by meanwhile these twitheads who are basically our future leaders are sitting around getting drunk at 12 and 1 pm. Fuck you dickheads, joing the rest of the world.

I'm not sure you know what you're talking about.
3 24oz cans of mike's hard lemonade, 2 emptied into 20oz diet coke bottles, being passed around a small circle of young adults ages 18-24, 2 people using iphones, 3 on android devices, 1 using an ipad, and most of them passing around 2-3 cigarettes, though the air smelt somewhat skunky, like cheap marijuana. ALL of them wearing something representing the occupy movement.

This ain't my first rodeo, cowboy.
Title: Re: Agent D's House of Rant.
Post by: Vanguard on April 30, 2012, 04:57:42 PM
I'm not debating your observations about what they were drinking or the brand of cellular device they prefer. Your projection as to what they're using OWS for, quite frankly, is bullshit.

No one is using OWS as an excuse to not work. Chances are, if they are unemployed, they were unemployed prior to OWS. Let's break out some facts. One out of every two recent college grads are unemployed, or underemployed. 85% of recent college grads have moved back home to live with their parents.

But yes, you're right. These kids clearly gave their jobs to hang out and drink.

Your worldview lacks nuance.
Title: Re: Agent D's House of Rant.
Post by: Kevadu on April 30, 2012, 05:23:04 PM
Mike's Hard Lemonade?  That is worth raging about.  Stupid kids have no taste.
Title: Re: Agent D's House of Rant.
Post by: Vanguard on April 30, 2012, 05:29:07 PM
Mike's Hard Lemonade?  That is worth raging about.  Stupid kids have no taste.


This we can agree on. I'd rather lick a battery than drink that swill.
Title: Re: Agent D's House of Rant.
Post by: Yoda on April 30, 2012, 05:35:56 PM
God I remember licking 9v batteries as a kid on dares. It's been like 20+ years since I've done it but just thinking of it brings that odd metallic buzz taste hhaha.

Mike's Hard Lemonade is made for underage drinkers at family parties
Title: Re: Agent D's House of Rant.
Post by: Vanguard on April 30, 2012, 05:40:15 PM
God I remember licking 9v batteries as a kid on dares. It's been like 20+ years since I've done it but just thinking of it brings that odd metallic buzz taste hhaha.

Mike's Hard Lemonade is made for underage drinkers at family parties

When I was like 10 I told my younger sister that licking batteries was fun. She was not as amused as I was.
Title: Re: Agent D's House of Rant.
Post by: Agent D. on April 30, 2012, 05:46:58 PM
I was gonna get all wordy and proper with my reply, but I decided I am too angry in general to bother.

Fuck world view, I live in new york. The fucking traffic jam that these twatmonkeys caused 3 months ago didn't cost the world a day's pay, but it did cause me 70 dollars in cab fees and an apologetic cancellation of a job I was en route to. Maybe this OWS bullshit has an impact on people who can't cope with having to flip burgers in mcdonalds, but unemployment my dick, you want a job, deal with the low pay of menial labor while you get one. I slaved away as an underpaid dickhole at radioshack while I found a better job, and guess what, I didn't sit around union square drinking and being a dick. My world view may be simplistic in scope, but you know what, I work every day, I get blisters on my feet and nicks and cuts on my hands, and I did it by fucking looking for work. Unemployment my ass, everyone wants to be a millionaire coming out of highschool. How the hell do fucking illegal aliens come to the US and make money and get jobs when they can't even fucking speak english, but a fucking 26 year old with a bachelor's degree can't get a job? Because the 26 year old wants to make 6 figures from the starting. You want a job, fucking work for a livery car service, deliver fast food, be a sales person at a shitty electronics store.  Maybe next time I walk into a goddam wendy's the clerk will be able to speak english and give me fucking ketchup for my goddamn fries.
Title: Re: Agent D's House of Rant.
Post by: Vanguard on April 30, 2012, 05:59:38 PM
You are not going to win this.

Want to talk about fast food jobs? A few months ago, McDonalds announced they had 50,000 open positions. Guess how many applications they received? 1,000,000. I feel the need to retype that. McDonalds received one million applications. Know what that works out to? One job for every 20,000 people that applied.

Let's talk about immigrants. Immigrants tend to work jobs that most Americans won't. Want an example? In Georgia, they recently passed some pretty harsh anti-immigration legislation that sparked a huge exodus of migrant workers from the state. Most of them picked fruit for a living. Guess what? Farmers lost hundreds of thousands of dollars because no natural born citizen wanted to pick blueberries for the wage they were offering.

Nationally, there are seven applicants for every open position.

But don't let my facts get in the way of a half-baked rant!
Title: Re: Agent D's House of Rant.
Post by: Agent D. on April 30, 2012, 06:11:40 PM
Because mcdonalds is the only fast food job out there, yes I know.

As for your immigrant point, you agreed with what I just said. America is too fucking spoiled to work for a days pay.

Who's trying to win an arguement, I am ranting because EVERYTHING fucking sucks. Fuck wall street, fuck spoiled fucking children, fuck corporate greed, fuck it all. At least I know when a goddamn revolution begins, I can still work because I don't fear menial labor like the over 80% unemployed youth of america.



Title: Re: Agent D's House of Rant.
Post by: Yoda on April 30, 2012, 06:28:02 PM
America is too spoiled to work for a days pay?

Where the fuck do you get that shit? Working at a fast food job or a retail job isn't going to fucking cut it like it used to. Not only do they pay shit, but they never give hours. Anyone that has worked retail or similar in the last few years knows that such places would rather give 4 people 20 hours instead of giving 2 people 40 hours and there certainly isn't overtime. Go into an average McDs and unless you have a teenager working for mall money you have an adult that probably works two or more jobs.

No natural born citizen is going to pick fucking blueberries, because guess fucking what, you CAN"T MAKE A LIVING OFF OF PICKING BLUEBERRIES. Immigrants have been fulfilling that damned role for generations. And before you make a peep do you honestly thing crop pickers have ever made a living wage in history?
Title: Re: Agent D's House of Rant.
Post by: Daggerstrike on April 30, 2012, 06:43:42 PM
I just want to point out that the appropriate way to collect blueberries is by raking them, not picking them. Thank you.
Title: Re: Agent D's House of Rant.
Post by: Agent D. on April 30, 2012, 06:47:51 PM
Okay, so basically, there is nothing anyone can fucking do and they are all shit out of luck?

I guess I was shit out of luck when I got evicted 9 years ago from my apartment with my family, both parents jobless.

I guess after I recovered from that blow and found myself in tbe same predicament 4 years later, I was shit out of luck again.

I guess when my sister was thrown out of my aunt's house because they needed the room for someone else left her shit out of luck.

I guess my being here on a broadband connection, sitting in my apartment with my dad in the other room, with my ps3, 360, and wii, a fridge full of food, and a JOB was me still shit out of luck. Oh yeah, my sister has her own apartment and a pretty decent job at a tax agency...she must be shit out of luck too.

Damn, I guess instead of finding a job and working while I find a better job was such a bad idea, maybe I should have protested instead?


Sorry if I'm being a bit insulting here, but how is it I am still here, with a shitty ged and a face made for radio? It can't just be luck...

Yes yoda, america as a general grouping, is far too spoiled for working a hard day and making shitty pay.
Title: Re: Agent D's House of Rant.
Post by: Yoda on April 30, 2012, 06:52:30 PM
I don't know what to tell you. Most of the people I know either bust their ass on a daily basis because they have a low education level or have busted their ass to get a job they like.
Title: Re: Agent D's House of Rant.
Post by: Agent D. on April 30, 2012, 07:09:32 PM
I don't know what to tell you. Most of the people I know either bust their ass on a daily basis because they have a low education level or have busted their ass to get a job they like.
Hi, my name is Agent D., and I fit both of those categories.

Look, I don't wanna piss anyone off, if I am, seriously I am sorry.  I just get angry at stuff like this. My life has been horrible, but complaining about it got me nowhere. I fucking busted my ass, worked as hard as I could, and took jobs that weren't phenomenal (okay, my game store job was fucking awesome, but that was earned, and I still worked freelance when I could). Yoda, I know you aren't doing too bad. What did you do differently than anyone else out there?
I bet Vanguard has a pretty tolerable living situation, did he just hit the life lotto maybe? These factual numbers and such, I won't argue those. But if we can get jobs and live life... Why can't other people do the same? What are we doing right that they aren't? How long do people have to point fingers everywhere else before maybe, MAYBE, they are the ones at fault. My whole rant here stemmed from me watching a group of kids sitting around a park in manhattan, one of the most popular cities in the world and one of the most populated, drinking and smoking and acting like delinquents, and they were promoting a cause about people abusing money in the long term. Drinking and smoking, both horrible vices that cost ridiculous amounts of money, and playing with expensive devices that many people can't afford even with jobs. Do you see why I am angry yet? Why I fucking rage about this shit, why I think our youth is a pathetic waste? My question is how are you hardworking people not outraged by this? The only thing worse than this is shit like the jersey shore morons, getting paid to be idiots, but that is of course our own fault as a society.
Title: Re: Agent D's House of Rant.
Post by: Vanguard on April 30, 2012, 07:21:34 PM
Your mischaracterization of OWS is what started this. You're conflating a group of kids acting like kids with a political movement that transcends age, gender, race, educational background, and socio-economic status.

Nobody is saying nothing can be done. You're the one acting like everyone just needs to "get real" and pull themselves up by their bootstraps. Just because you did, doesn't mean everyone else can.

That's part of the OWS' whole agenda. Landing a job you like that pays alright is heavily decided by factors beyond people's control. No amount of hard work will counter that. It's a systemic problem, not a motivational one.

I will cap this post off with a rant.

You know what really grinds my gears? When people make sweeping generalizations based on anecdotal evidence and then, once confronted with facts, double down on their ignorance.


Title: Re: Agent D's House of Rant.
Post by: Annubis on April 30, 2012, 07:47:10 PM
Here I'll add mine. You know what is really starting to get to me? People who think because they lived a hard life, everyone else should too.
Worst is, I'm not saying this only because of Agent D.
Currently here in Quebeckerland, the government is raising education cost a lot. They promise students will have better education... but we all know that's complete bullshit and that people who own these education establishment are rolling in money (I think you can see where this is going).

Most none-student dismiss all the protesting of the youth because of reasons like these:
« Fucking youngster, think they're entitled to everything. »
« Oh no, now they're going to have to work for their education *sarcasm* »
« I busted my ass studying and working to get my undergrad, shitty kids should do the same! »
« Quebec already has the lowest cost for education in Canada, cry me a river. »
« Quebec draining Canada's money on spoiled youth. »

and I'm not even kidding, go find articles and open the comments.

What I completely fail to understand is:
- Firstly, why is it bad to be the cheapest education? Is there truly a need to make it cost more? Should we not be proud of this and work to maintain or even improve it? There have been multiple alternative ideas brought by many people from different fields that challenge the need for money or propose alternatives to getting the money (mostly things that we should have cut ages ago like giving money to the oil industry... yeah these guys are clearly going bankrupt *sarcasm*)
- Secondly, why do people who finished their studies with humongous debt refuse to have others possibly lessen their monetary problems because "that would be unfair for those who did in the past". I'd prefer for things to get better than for people to kick themselves down to make sure everyone is evenly unhappy.

I guess we'll see where this goes.
Title: Re: Agent D's House of Rant.
Post by: Kevadu on April 30, 2012, 08:42:56 PM
Damn kids should stop hoping for a better future.  Shut up and be obedient little worker drones so you can be just as miserable as everyone else.
Title: Re: Agent D's House of Rant.
Post by: Ashton on April 30, 2012, 10:33:28 PM
people who own these education establishment are rolling in money (I think you can see where this is going).
I wouldn't be so sure. Here in California the government increased the costs of tuition but slashed the salary of professors - I believe my old man took a 25% pay cut a few years back despite the university having their costs increased.

I was supremely pissed at how incompetent the government was in this regard.
Title: Re: Agent D's House of Rant.
Post by: Annubis on May 01, 2012, 12:02:05 AM
I'm not talking about the teachers, I'm talking about management.
Teachers are far from rolling in money.
Title: Re: Agent D's House of Rant.
Post by: Yoda on May 01, 2012, 01:16:03 PM
It's amazing how each forum has certain members that remind you of the same kind of person on another forum.

Agent D. reminds me of a guy in such that way from a White Sox forum I frequented for probably about 5 years. Posted, argued, and ranted in the exact same way. I'm not saying either guy is right or wrong, or good or bad, but it's just an interesting pattern.
Title: Re: Agent D's House of Rant.
Post by: Starmongoose on May 01, 2012, 01:22:42 PM
It's amazing how each forum has certain members that remind you of the same kind of person on another forum.

Agent D. reminds me of a guy in such that way from a White Sox forum I frequented for probably about 5 years. Posted, argued, and ranted in the exact same way. I'm not saying either guy is right or wrong, or good or bad, but it's just an interesting pattern.

Oh oh!

Do me, do me!

Who was I? :D
Title: Re: Agent D's House of Rant.
Post by: dyeager on May 01, 2012, 04:47:36 PM
Here's my secret: I don't approach life like everybody everywhere is out to get me every minute of every day.

Seems to be working out pretty well so far.
Title: Re: Agent D's House of Rant.
Post by: Agent D. on May 01, 2012, 05:01:51 PM
Ok, apparently this waa a bad rant, most of what I was ranting about seemed to get somewhat misread and it lead into a debacle about a touchy subject. If people want to co.tinue to talk about it, that is fine by me, but I think I'll bow out gracefully before I throw a fit and delete my account here.


I wasn't kidding when I said I was angry regarding it.
Title: Re: Agent D's House of Rant.
Post by: dyeager on May 01, 2012, 05:18:08 PM
I'm not even going to go near the whole OWS thing.

I was only going to suggest that rage/venting is not a very well trod path to success. In fact most of the prevailing evidence seems to suggest it just feeds on itself - there's a nice summary about this here: http://youarenotsosmart.com/2010/08/11/catharsis/ (http://youarenotsosmart.com/2010/08/11/catharsis/)

Obviously there are exceptions everywhere, anger can be a great motivator. But couching all of your points in rage is a real good way to make sure the actual point gets missed, you know? If you make a point aggressively, you have to expect that people are going to be just as aggressive with their counter points.
Title: Re: Agent D's House of Rant.
Post by: Parn on May 01, 2012, 05:42:10 PM
Best way to relieve anger is to rub one out.
Title: Re: Agent D's House of Rant.
Post by: Agent D. on May 01, 2012, 10:16:31 PM
Best way to relieve anger is to rub one out.
This doesn't work....you can't rub when pissed, you aggresively yank and pull, which can lead to pain and discomfort.
Title: Re: Agent D's House of Rant.
Post by: Ashton on May 01, 2012, 11:14:13 PM
Pay someone else to do it.
Title: Re: Agent D's House of Rant.
Post by: Mickeymac92 on May 01, 2012, 11:30:52 PM
I just want to point out that the appropriate way to collect blueberries is by raking them, not picking them. Thank you.

My Uncle has a blueberry farm. I coulda sworn they just picked them, though. I should ask him the next time I see him.
Title: Re: Agent D's House of Rant.
Post by: Kevadu on May 01, 2012, 11:46:47 PM
Best way to relieve anger is to rub one out.
This doesn't work....you can't rub when pissed, you aggresively yank and pull, which can lead to pain and discomfort.

Never in my life have I been that angry...
Title: Re: Agent D's House of Rant.
Post by: Mickeymac92 on May 01, 2012, 11:53:04 PM
It's amazing how each forum has certain members that remind you of the same kind of person on another forum. 

I find it even worse when they remind me of people I know. I swear I know 3 people like Agent D.
Title: Re: Agent D's House of Rant.
Post by: Yoda on May 02, 2012, 12:15:31 AM


Best way to relieve anger is to rub one out.
This doesn't work....you can't rub when pissed, you aggresively yank and pull, which can lead to pain and discomfort.

Never in my life have I been that angry...

I'd post a thousand laughing animated gifs to honor this but my kind words will have to be enough, friendo
Title: Re: Agent D's House of Rant.
Post by: Daggerstrike on May 02, 2012, 12:19:48 AM
I just want to point out that the appropriate way to collect blueberries is by raking them, not picking them. Thank you.

My Uncle has a blueberry farm. I coulda sworn they just picked them, though. I should ask him the next time I see him.
Maybe it's just Maine blueberries that are raked. My cousin used to do it every summer.
Title: Re: Agent D's House of Rant.
Post by: Akanbe- on May 02, 2012, 04:43:35 PM
Pay someone else to do it.

Funny how that's illegal unless you want to film it and sell it online - then it's A-OK.  The American dream even!
Title: Re: Agent D's House of Rant.
Post by: Ashton on May 03, 2012, 03:01:37 AM
Yeah, that's what happens when you have a weird ass citizenship that thinks that people should do what they want... until they disapprove, then censor them.
Title: Re: Agent D's House of Rant.
Post by: Agent D. on May 03, 2012, 07:34:34 PM
Yeah, that's what happens when you have a weird ass citizenship that thinks that people should do what they want... until they disapprove, then censor them.
Well, at least they wait to censor something until a large number or people (more than 5) complain about it being bad or indecent or what not.