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Media => Single-Player RPGs => Topic started by: Klyde Chroma on June 24, 2012, 09:17:29 PM

Title: Agarest Wars 2..A thread about the game and NOT the fanservice this time....
Post by: Klyde Chroma on June 24, 2012, 09:17:29 PM
Before kicking this one off I just want to preface this with an apology for not continuing my last Agarest 2 thread... That thread was primarily about/focused on the LE goodies and we all know where that discussion went.... I didn't want to revive it because I felt we needed a thread about the game and not gender exploitation or discrimination or whatever the hell happened to that one.... I'm not gonna go back and check because I recall it got too out of sorts for me while it was still kicking and I figure best leave that one burried.

So any-hoo.... Who hear is as stoked as I am about this one!!? I purposely held off on Gungnir and have been finishing backlogged titles for the last 3 weeks to make sure nothing compromised immersing myself in this come wednesday morning! I really liked Agarest Zero but ruined it on myself with DLC (never ever again will I get equipment and money DLC packs.... even if they are free....).... So as such, and seeing as how this looks to be a 100% improved departure from AW0, I can't contain myself... I really feel like this is gonna be a stellar title.

If I'm not mistaken the narrative is also a completely fresh invention with nothing to do with the Ag0 and Ag1 universes, which just compounds my excitement further! Aside from that the free-roam overworld map and switch to cross-edge styled battles (much shorter than the Ag0 and Ag1 battles) has me beyond sold. So yea.... I'm going into this one with some expectations but I really don't see myself being let down here..... and if I am oh well... it still kept me focused enough this month to finish FF 4 Complete Collection, Suikoden 1 and Atelier Rorona.

Title: Re: Agarest Wars 2..A thread about the game and NOT the fanservice this time....
Post by: Aeolus on June 24, 2012, 09:56:20 PM
Isn't this the one where one of the offsprings is female for once?

If so then I suppose that I should tune in at least until I hear of how they're going to handle that (my bet will be that she'll come during the final generation where it's safe to go looking for a lesbian to pair with).
Title: Re: Agarest Wars 2..A thread about the game and NOT the fanservice this time....
Post by: Klyde Chroma on June 25, 2012, 02:21:11 AM
Isn't this the one where one of the offsprings is female for once?

If so then I suppose that I should tune in at least until I hear of how they're going to handle that (my bet will be that she'll come during the final generation where it's safe to go looking for a lesbian to pair with).

wow.... I never thought about that.... dating sims that would allow you to choose your sexual preference that is... has that ever been done?

In any event, on that note, supposedly in this installment you can choose to "force" whomever to be your mate to the detriment of your offsprings stats if your given choice isn't fond of you.... something tells me this game is gonna come under scrutiny no matter how good it is, as the self-righteous who need something to bitch about take these things completely  out of context...

Between this and Mugen Souls I can't wait to here how offended parents of gamer-kiddies get this year whilst completely over looking the fact that for years they have been allowing their child the virtual freedom of shooting their neighbors and friends in modern and realistic settings...
Title: Re: Agarest Wars 2..A thread about the game and NOT the fanservice this time....
Post by: Kevadu on June 25, 2012, 02:54:52 AM
Nah Klyde, this and Mugen Souls are too obscure for anyone to make a big deal out of.
Title: Re: Agarest Wars 2..A thread about the game and NOT the fanservice this time....
Post by: ZeronHitaro on June 25, 2012, 03:30:48 AM
I was kinda curious until I saw this:

'The Soul Breeding system receives a new additional feature with the implementation of a "Dark Love" ending which occurs if the relationship rate is low with the chosen mate. Rather than a happy wedding, the main character has a marriage with his bride for political interests and enters a loveless relationship to conceive a child, resulting in poor stats for the next protagonist.'

'First game in the Agarest series where you can choose any bride regardless of relationship level, with the stats for the next protagonist getting higher or lower depending on it.'

This raises red flags for me on both a level of 'failure to imagine' and 'forced uncomfortableness'.

Failure to Imagine: This 'Dark Love' concept could've actually been a major piece of awesome for this game. A sort of meter to determine if you're creating a generation of heroes, anti-heroes, or villains depending on your moral guidance in your relationship choices. While it might be cliche literary-wise it would be rather edgy for an RPG to allow you to play as a main character who's an abusive douchebag and seeing exactly how badly it messes up your son/daughter and their future generations. It doesn't exactly have to go that dark but a bit of narrative complexity wouldn't be too much to ask for these days. Instead it's basically going to amount to 'Penalty for Roleplaying! You get the boring outcome and your stats suck. Don't do it again.'

Forced Uncomfortableness: Let's just be honest without harping on it; we know JRPG's like to be hentai-light these days. It's part of the whole niche base they're trying to appeal to in order to sell more copies over there. Because of that you get all variety of nonsense that, at least in the past, is usually avoidable if you know which cut-scenes to ignore ala online guide. Sure you might lose some completion or relationship points; but at least it doesn't stop you from enjoying the game...until now. I may be jumping the gun but I'd bet good money this is what's going to happen-

Developer: Hey, there's this scene here where you drop soy beans on your love's face and it looks like you totally sprayed her. Sexy huh? Oh wait, you don't like that sort of thing? Think it's immature and not something you wish to partake in? Well guess what; we're making it so you need to watch this in order to get a nice chunk of your relationship points. So you can either get our wet dreams shoved in your face or play a character with crappy stats the rest of the game. Enjoy!
_____________

I admit though, this is just me over-analyzing what information has been put forward and applying the recent history of JRPGs and Anime that have come before it in the similar vein to these systems.
Title: Re: Agarest Wars 2..A thread about the game and NOT the fanservice this time....
Post by: Andrew on June 25, 2012, 03:36:46 AM
Isn't this the one where one of the offsprings is female for once?

If so then I suppose that I should tune in at least until I hear of how they're going to handle that (my bet will be that she'll come during the final generation where it's safe to go looking for a lesbian to pair with).

wow.... I never thought about that.... dating sims that would allow you to choose your sexual preference that is... has that ever been done?

Not as far as I'm aware. Potentially in the indie market, but not mainstream. And, of course, the reason that is the case is that it wouldn't sell well (well, it potentially could, but they wouldn't risk it). That's why there are otome games for the girls and bishojo games for the guys.
Title: Re: Agarest Wars 2..A thread about the game and NOT the fanservice this time....
Post by: insertnamehere on June 25, 2012, 09:39:17 PM
Isn't this the one where one of the offsprings is female for once?

If so then I suppose that I should tune in at least until I hear of how they're going to handle that (my bet will be that she'll come during the final generation where it's safe to go looking for a lesbian to pair with).

wow.... I never thought about that.... dating sims that would allow you to choose your sexual preference that is... has that ever been done?

Not as far as I'm aware. Potentially in the indie market, but not mainstream. And, of course, the reason that is the case is that it wouldn't sell well (well, it potentially could, but they wouldn't risk it). That's why there are otome games for the girls and bishojo games for the guys.

You really think so?
I think it would appeal to both audiences, so for a bishojo game, add some guy routes full of yaoi and fangirls would eat it up.
Title: Re: Agarest Wars 2..A thread about the game and NOT the fanservice this time....
Post by: Cyril on June 25, 2012, 09:47:47 PM
I've not played 2 yet, but as far as I'm aware, there is no female protagonist.  You can check it on the Agarest wiki:
http://agarest.wikia.com/wiki/Party_Members

Which, by the way, is also very good for getting 100% in these games.
Title: Re: Agarest Wars 2..A thread about the game and NOT the fanservice this time....
Post by: Andrew on June 25, 2012, 11:41:54 PM
Isn't this the one where one of the offsprings is female for once?

If so then I suppose that I should tune in at least until I hear of how they're going to handle that (my bet will be that she'll come during the final generation where it's safe to go looking for a lesbian to pair with).

wow.... I never thought about that.... dating sims that would allow you to choose your sexual preference that is... has that ever been done?

Not as far as I'm aware. Potentially in the indie market, but not mainstream. And, of course, the reason that is the case is that it wouldn't sell well (well, it potentially could, but they wouldn't risk it). That's why there are otome games for the girls and bishojo games for the guys.

You really think so?
I think it would appeal to both audiences, so for a bishojo game, add some guy routes full of yaoi and fangirls would eat it up.

I think the girls could buy it, yes. Otaku dudes in Japan who eat those games up would never buy one with a otome route.
Title: Re: Agarest Wars 2..A thread about the game and NOT the fanservice this time....
Post by: Klyde Chroma on June 26, 2012, 08:47:55 PM
Ok, I am not far enough in yet to give a relevant report but I will detail my first impressions...

Let me just start by saying this game is freakin' gorgeous.... by far the most stunning anime-based visual direction I think I've ever seen in a game... katsuyuki's character art coupled with most visually appealing sprites I've seen in a current gen title equates to godiva quality eye candy here... couple that with the lush backdrops and let me say, for a game of its style, its visual impact is no less then amazing.

The soundtrack is great, very appropriate and mood enhancing. I am actually really disapointed the LE didn't include it.

The narrative a few hours in is really shining as well. This surprisingly well written script, while containing some pretty cliche elements that wouldn't normally hold my attention, has proven pretty grand so far. It's serious and gripping with great dialogue without becoming too windy for its own good if you know what I mean..... I hate feeling overwhelmed with information on the world I'm trying to immerse myself in.... worse yet is when the volumes of said info is necessary for the narrative within said world to make sense.... that is not a problem here. The scope of things feels grand, and pressing. The characters have personality. The cliches are easily overlooked in light of those two facts alone.

That so far has been its strongest points for me...

Another major pro however has been the battle system. I'm enjoying it thus far.... I'm enjoying it alot actually. However there is just a bit much to comprehend here. I'll need to give it some more time to fully understand the mechanics of it. Given that I'm a few hours in and still feel unfamiliar with it though is sort of odd.... then again I am not familiar with cross edge at all and from what I understand this sort of mirrors that a bit, so I suppose some will feel right at home here.

I can't comment  much of the gameplay elements yet actually... I just don't feel comfortable enough to say one way or the other....

On another note I will also say this.... I couldn't decide what difficulty to play on, given how tough Agarest Zero was.... yet I was afraid not playing on hard would prevent me from reaping the benefit of some content, as that was an unfortunate fact of other Agarest titles if I'm not mistaken... so after playing on normal for a few hours, it got to me and I restarted on hard. Let me just say, this game is MUCH more forgiving than the other Agarest titles. Hard has not felt dwarfing in any sense thus far. In fact, it seems to be just right I would say..... Also on that subject... I scoured the internet for info on whether or not there was much to be missed by not playing on hard and could find nothing.... The lack of info on this game is pretty astounding to me even given the fact that is a new title.

The cons so far
-No english voice acting (may or may not be a con to some)
-The gorgeous visuals can suffer a bit from lag here and there... this doesn't bother me at all, but I know it irks some people something fierce...
-Its so cool to get to walk around in real time on the world map that I feel towns could have proven alot more enjoyable if you could navigate them in the same manner.
-Character creation (much as in Agarest Zero) seems to make absolutely no freakin' sense what-so-ever.

So while my jury is still out on the meet and potatos of this one, what I have experienced thus far is golden. One more thing I would like to say, if anyone is considerring this but has been turned off by its predecessors, this is without a doubt a whole different experience than Agarest or Agarest Zero. In my opinion it is a VAST improvement on all fronts, but in some respects its way too much of a departure to even compare if you ask me.

I'll post more impressions about the gameplay and whatnot tomarrow after some more time with it.
Title: Re: Agarest Wars 2..A thread about the game and NOT the fanservice this time....
Post by: Cyril on June 26, 2012, 11:17:10 PM
with most visually appealing sprites I've seen in a current gen title equates to godiva quality eye candy here...

I think you forgot Disgaea 4 exists.
Title: Re: Agarest Wars 2..A thread about the game and NOT the fanservice this time....
Post by: Klyde Chroma on June 27, 2012, 04:58:39 PM
with most visually appealing sprites I've seen in a current gen title equates to godiva quality eye candy here...

I think you forgot Disgaea 4 exists.

Nah, I'll never forget Disgaea 4 :) I've been itching to get the post game content actually because its the only Disgaea title I didn't pour 100 of hours in after finishing the main story....

Anyhow back to more impressions of Agarest here....

A few more hours in and I am afraid to report things are becoming a bit stale... To expand upon my last post I'll get into gameplay a bit here....

I was mistaken.... it isn't that the systems are terribly complex or overwhelming... it is just that they are presented as such... the game does a horrible job of making things seem waaaay more complex then they need be... Now that I have the hang of it though, battles are getting a bit old (while still real pretty to look at). It seems each encounter is solved with the same repetitive strategy of combo attacks followed up by ultimate attacks... Just pay attention to the wait gauge, build up an ultimate/limit break styled move, let her rip and thats that.... Sort of is becoming "lather rinse repeat" a bit. I tend to think this may change more as the difficulty increases as I progress but we will see...

Now as for the skills and equipment systems.... The game once again bombards you with a 101 tutorials making things very complex to digest.... however much like the battle system it doesn't seem that trying once you get some hands on experience with it. Problem is, these tutorials come at the onset of the game and its literally hours before you get to actually put any of said instruction into application.... This left me feeling confused and baffled for no reason really. They make a souped up pseudo-materia system seem like quantum physics here.... at least that was the impression I initially got..

So another big con I feel need be reported in my humble opinion is how your introduced to everything within the first few hours... I can see it REALLY turning off gamers fast.... Coupled with the fact that first few hours are LONG.... you don't get your feet wet too quick in this title, let me tell you what.... in fact a few hours in and your still in the introductory phases, yet its still a good while before that which was introduced to you has any application.

So is this a perfect game? No, not by any stretch.... Is it an upgrade from the past Agarests? I would say without a doubt!.... I'll close now with this. I am actually pretty surprised with the quality displayed here by compile hearts and idea factory... I am a fan, but I'm the first to admit its because of my particular subjective tastes that I have appreciated their titles.  They have, however, definately stepped things up in a number of respects... I feel like if they knock up the gameplay a notch along with the production value they have going here we'd really see something stellar.... The long and the short of it..... Agarest Wars 2 will certainly be enough to tide me over til Growlanser IV, but I highly doubt its gonna prove something I feel a pressing need to burn through despite the decent narrative and eye candy.

But once again, these are initial impressions.... another week or so with the title and I think I'll really know where I stand with it.
Title: Re: Agarest Wars 2..A thread about the game and NOT the fanservice this time....
Post by: Andrew on June 27, 2012, 06:13:40 PM
with most visually appealing sprites I've seen in a current gen title equates to godiva quality eye candy here...

I think you forgot Disgaea 4 exists.
A few more hours in and I am afraid to report things are becoming a bit stale... To expand upon my last post I'll get into gameplay a bit here....

I was mistaken.... it isn't that the systems are terribly complex or overwhelming... it is just that they are presented as such... the game does a horrible job of making things seem waaaay more complex then they need be...

So, in other words, it's a classic Idea Factory failure.
Title: Re: Agarest Wars 2..A thread about the game and NOT the fanservice this time....
Post by: mjrpgfan on June 27, 2012, 10:17:02 PM
Grindea factory strikes again.
Title: Re: Agarest Wars 2..A thread about the game and NOT the fanservice this time....
Post by: Klyde Chroma on June 28, 2012, 02:31:02 AM
with most visually appealing sprites I've seen in a current gen title equates to godiva quality eye candy here...

I think you forgot Disgaea 4 exists.
A few more hours in and I am afraid to report things are becoming a bit stale... To expand upon my last post I'll get into gameplay a bit here....

I was mistaken.... it isn't that the systems are terribly complex or overwhelming... it is just that they are presented as such... the game does a horrible job of making things seem waaaay more complex then they need be...

So, in other words, it's a classic Idea Factory failure.

Well I certainly wouldn't go so far as to say that.... as I said, this is without question a cut above their other titles.... there is some definitive evolution to bear witness to here.... Most of IF's other titles I felt were borderline torture unless you were (as I am) part of that niche' demographic they are catering to.... I actually feel this ALMOST transcends that and stands on its own two feet as a really decent SRPG... Mind you I said almost.... The flaws do hold it back, to the point of failure...? No, I don't think so..... It has inherent IF flaws, but it has enough going for it that, unlike most other titles they have produced, these flaws are the type of thing that make you frustrated at points but not enough to quit playing....

So flawed yes, failed (in my opinion) no.

I actually feel if this is any indication of whats to come out of IF in the future they may prove to have some seriously decent games someday.....
Title: Re: Agarest Wars 2..A thread about the game and NOT the fanservice this time....
Post by: Andrew on June 28, 2012, 02:54:15 AM
Well, at their current rate of improvement, maybe our grandkids will get a good IF game.

In all seriousness though, I'm glad you're enjoying it Klyde. From what you've said it does sound they've at least attempted to fix some of the stuff wrong with the first Agarest.
Title: Re: Agarest Wars 2..A thread about the game and NOT the fanservice this time....
Post by: Cyril on June 29, 2012, 04:47:38 PM
My first thoughts:

What the hell, they actually learned to 3D model. The 3D animations still aren't as smooth, but they look much nicer than their previous efforts on the system.  It comes at the expense of the sprites, though, which animate rather stiffly.
Title: Re: Agarest Wars 2..A thread about the game and NOT the fanservice this time....
Post by: Klyde Chroma on July 01, 2012, 01:11:02 PM
Ok so it is official... I will totally say this game kicks ass.... Yea it has its flaws.... Yes it took a full week of play-time for to get to the "kick ass" point... but if you meander your way (painfully at times...) through the first long leg of this game, you'll be pleasantly surprised by a real gem of an SRPG here..

The coolest pro of this title for me is the way they keep the narrative (which is waaaay improved over Zero BTW) in tact whilst allowing you to play in a VERY non-linear way. In fact, dare I say, I've never quite felt such a sense of open-world, non-linearity in an SRPG of this nature before.

The cons really held this game back for the first 8-12 hours for me though,  which is a shame because I can see alot of people putting it down and never giving it so much as another glance throughout its meager beginnings..... And to be completely honest, I still don't dig the skill system (too much random-ness in developing effective configurations of characters skills for the coming battles for my taste..... you'll find yourself thinking you've got a solid set-up for one battle and then completely dwarfed in the next without reworking things.... which requires a wee bit too much menu surfing IMO)...

But other than those two (albeit major) problems, this game is a HUGE step up for Idea Factory if you ask me.... I'll post more as I make my way through this title, but that is my final two cents on the first weeks worth of getting aquainted with this one.

Title: Re: Agarest Wars 2..A thread about the game and NOT the fanservice this time....
Post by: mjrpgfan on July 02, 2012, 05:44:52 PM
I wouldn't call Agarest Wars 2 an SRPG any more than Cross Edge.. your units are on two separate grids, right?

My vote for best Idea Factory game would be Generation of Chaos 6, which had Sting's co-development. I haven't played it, but it's probably better with Sting's involvement.
Title: Re: Agarest Wars 2..A thread about the game and NOT the fanservice this time....
Post by: Zendervai on July 02, 2012, 06:58:18 PM
Ok so it is official... I will totally say this game kicks ass.... Yea it has its flaws.... Yes it took a full week of play-time for to get to the "kick ass" point... but if you meander your way (painfully at times...) through the first long leg of this game, you'll be pleasantly surprised by a real gem of an SRPG here..

The coolest pro of this title for me is the way they keep the narrative (which is waaaay improved over Zero BTW) in tact whilst allowing you to play in a VERY non-linear way. In fact, dare I say, I've never quite felt such a sense of open-world, non-linearity in an SRPG of this nature before.

The cons really held this game back for the first 8-12 hours for me though,  which is a shame because I can see alot of people putting it down and never giving it so much as another glance throughout its meager beginnings..... And to be completely honest, I still don't dig the skill system (too much random-ness in developing effective configurations of characters skills for the coming battles for my taste..... you'll find yourself thinking you've got a solid set-up for one battle and then completely dwarfed in the next without reworking things.... which requires a wee bit too much menu surfing IMO)...

But other than those two (albeit major) problems, this game is a HUGE step up for Idea Factory if you ask me.... I'll post more as I make my way through this title, but that is my final two cents on the first weeks worth of getting aquainted with this one.



You convinced me to get it! I liked the first one, but the battle system was clunky to the point that I gave up midway through the third generation. When every single battle out of eighty threatens a total party kill, due to the mechanics, the game is too hard. Granted, I liked Ar Tonelico Qoga and I have a really high tolerance for flaws, so I guess I'm in the target demographic! ;-)
Title: Re: Agarest Wars 2..A thread about the game and NOT the fanservice this time....
Post by: Cyril on July 02, 2012, 07:36:58 PM
You convinced me to get it! I liked the first one, but the battle system was clunky to the point that I gave up midway through the third generation. When every single battle out of eighty threatens a total party kill, due to the mechanics, the game is too hard. Granted, I liked Ar Tonelico Qoga and I have a really high tolerance for flaws, so I guess I'm in the target demographic! ;-)

Eh? To be quite honest, I've no idea what you're talking about.  The first Agarest is easy until you start hitting the bosses in Generation 3 that wipe out your party in one attack.  Methinks you, er, didn't know the mechanics well. But I didn't either, not until midway through my first playthrough in Generation 4 (which says a lot for the game in general, that it takes some ~400 battles to fully understand the system).

This game  has a difficulty spike right at the very start, because the game does a terrible job of explaining everything, and once you get the mechanics down, it's relatively uneven from then on.  One battle I can pass with no trouble, the next the enemies toss my characters around like dolls. I'm assuming it's like the first one and eventually the bosses will butcher you if you position your characters incorrectly.  I find it more difficult than Agarest 1, but most likely because I do knows Agarest 1 so well.

Some things I definitely like, though.  They're expanding on the lore (one of the best parts of the series) considerably.  I love the new skill system, very interesting.
Title: Re: Agarest Wars 2..A thread about the game and NOT the fanservice this time....
Post by: Klyde Chroma on July 02, 2012, 10:42:22 PM
You convinced me to get it! I liked the first one, but the battle system was clunky to the point that I gave up midway through the third generation. When every single battle out of eighty threatens a total party kill, due to the mechanics, the game is too hard. Granted, I liked Ar Tonelico Qoga and I have a really high tolerance for flaws, so I guess I'm in the target demographic! ;-)

Eh? To be quite honest, I've no idea what you're talking about.  The first Agarest is easy until you start hitting the bosses in Generation 3 that wipe out your party in one attack.  Methinks you, er, didn't know the mechanics well. But I didn't either, not until midway through my first playthrough in Generation 4 (which says a lot for the game in general, that it takes some ~400 battles to fully understand the system).

This game  has a difficulty spike right at the very start, because the game does a terrible job of explaining everything, and once you get the mechanics down, it's relatively uneven from then on.  One battle I can pass with no trouble, the next the enemies toss my characters around like dolls. I'm assuming it's like the first one and eventually the bosses will butcher you if you position your characters incorrectly.  I find it more difficult than Agarest 1, but most likely because I do knows Agarest 1 so well.

Some things I definitely like, though.  They're expanding on the lore (one of the best parts of the series) considerably.  I love the new skill system, very interesting.

@ Zend- Good decision friend! I can't imagine you being disapointed here as your tastes sound similar to my own (I love the Ar tonelico series and can easily overlook flaws in light of what I like)

@Cyril- I'm finding the key not getting totally trounced one battle to the next is paying real close attention to enemies strengths and weaknesses vs my parties and swtiching out characters FAST if they aren't part of the "solution" if you will.... that is if an enemy can exploit my parties weakness or I am unable to exploit theirs and quickly build my ultimate gauge, well I'm screwed..... to accomplish this your almost forced to focus on the growth of team-mates outside your preferred 4 person party with an emphasis on variety. Being mindful of this coupled with heavy emphasis of the "extend" skills has kept me moving steadily and I'm playing on hard......

Additionally I've noticed alot of what I have percieved as being overtly difficult was me getting a little too ambitious and venturing paths I probably should have waited to blaze until completing some other stuff.... but having a game over as a real possibility has proven remarkably refreshing for me. I think it is actually part of this titles strength. They certainly don't treat the player with kid gloves by the end of the first generation, thats for sure....


EDIT: Well guys, when I'm wrong, I'm wrong... and I have to admit I was wrong about the difficulty..... I do NOT suggest playing this on hard.... it gets steep, let me tell you what.... normal may seem too easy for awhile but hard  becomes brutally frustrating.... I mean it becomes quite literally unfair, even with relatively maxed equipment and upgrades to the point were progression is literally dependant on A-LOT of grinding.... I actually decided to restart on normal.... what a chore....
Title: Re: Agarest Wars 2..A thread about the game and NOT the fanservice this time....
Post by: Zendervai on July 07, 2012, 10:12:26 AM
So I got this game, and it really is a massive improvement. Most of Idea Factory's games make me wonder why they are picked up for release here, but this one could probably get a release on its own merits. One thing that made me laugh though was that after the super serious opening scenes, not offset by the relatively somber pre-menu opening sequence, we get a super happy and cheery opening with dancing right out of nowhere. Then right back to serious. The Agarest games tend to have an extreme amount of mood whiplash, but this is really pushing it. I am enjoying it though.
Title: Re: Agarest Wars 2..A thread about the game and NOT the fanservice this time....
Post by: Klyde Chroma on July 07, 2012, 05:13:00 PM
So I got this game, and it really is a massive improvement. Most of Idea Factory's games make me wonder why they are picked up for release here, but this one could probably get a release on its own merits. One thing that made me laugh though was that after the super serious opening scenes, not offset by the relatively somber pre-menu opening sequence, we get a super happy and cheery opening with dancing right out of nowhere. Then right back to serious. The Agarest games tend to have an extreme amount of mood whiplash, but this is really pushing it. I am enjoying it though.

I love that ridiculous opening! I also enjoy the "whiplash" as you so appropriately put it... Its lovely to have some levity sprinkled in such a dire narrative here and there. I couldn't believe the upgraded quality of these FMV sequences in contrast to the prior titles too, I wish there were move of them then I've bore witness to thus far, but given my restart I'm still not all that far in....

Speaking of.... on normal this game is SO much more enjoyable than hard.... I liked it on hard don't get me wrong... but now I officially love it. I feel very comfortable in saying this game is totally NOT getting the attention it deserves right now.
Title: Re: Agarest Wars 2..A thread about the game and NOT the fanservice this time....
Post by: Dincrest on July 12, 2012, 09:15:59 AM
Well, at their current rate of improvement, maybe our grandkids will get a good IF game.

Ummm... Hakuoki?  Seriously, that game is still one of the best I've played all year.  

Oh, and Zendervai describing Agarest 2's opening as something straight out of a Bollywood flick piques my interest.  

I kinda dig the over the top ridiculousness of IF games as a guilty pleasure, but what always turned me off was the shoe-horning in of too many "everything but the kitchen sink" wonky gameplay systems that often wound up working against each other rather than cohesively, making for issues with difficulty balance.  That's one big reason I liked Hakuoki, is because it kept it nice and simple.  It's good to have a legion of creative monkeys flying around in your head, but you have to calm those creative monkeys every once in a while or you end up with a big mess.  

And as an aside, I enjoyed Mugen Souls (Compile Heart is basically Idea Factory Jr.) more than I expected to at E3.
Title: Re: Agarest Wars 2..A thread about the game and NOT the fanservice this time....
Post by: Mickeymac92 on August 28, 2012, 01:44:21 PM
I was gonna say I'm surprised Record of Argest Wars 2 was well-liked by Dincrest, but reading his last post, I see there was always a good chance for it. I dunno if I'd ever pick it up, but I'm glad to know Idea Factory is improving.
Title: Re: Agarest Wars 2..A thread about the game and NOT the fanservice this time....
Post by: Alisha on August 28, 2012, 03:27:11 PM
i was thinking of trying this since i loved the generational aspect of phantasy star 3. is there a game with a similar battle system out there? so i know what to expect?
Title: Re: Agarest Wars 2..A thread about the game and NOT the fanservice this time....
Post by: Zendervai on August 28, 2012, 04:30:25 PM
The closest (not identical) battle system I've seen is Valkyrie Profile's actually. Combine that with locations based on where the current party leader is placed and you basically have it. It's not quite as refined, but that's the general gist of it.
Title: Re: Agarest Wars 2..A thread about the game and NOT the fanservice this time....
Post by: Dincrest on August 28, 2012, 04:59:26 PM
Mickeymac- I was surprised myself.  I have mixed feelings about Idea Factory and Compile Heart games.  The prior Agarest War games were a cinderblock mule to play, yet Hakuoki is still one of my favorites this year.  But, yeah, Agarest 2 is a definite improvement over your garden variety Idea Factory game.  It still has some typical Idea Factory "WTF?" stuff, but is actually an enjoyable game.  

Alisha- I guess my review was tl;dr.  I discuss the battle system in the 12th paragraph.  But since I'm feeling generous, think Valkyrie Profile: Silmeria meets Radiant Historia.  
Title: Re: Agarest Wars 2..A thread about the game and NOT the fanservice this time....
Post by: Alisha on August 28, 2012, 11:51:12 PM
so if i have this right its like CotP but you only need to move the leader? ok im intrigued and will read your review.
Title: Re: Agarest Wars 2..A thread about the game and NOT the fanservice this time....
Post by: Dincrest on August 29, 2012, 05:18:00 PM
There isn't really manual movement or formation creation like in a SRPG.  Choosing which of the four active party members is acting leader is what changes the formations. 

It's simpler in practice than it is in explanation.  That's how a lot of !F games are.  The mechanics are less complicated than they're made out to be, and some of them do feel a bit arbitrary. 
Title: Re: Agarest Wars 2..A thread about the game and NOT the fanservice this time....
Post by: Klyde Chroma on August 30, 2012, 02:01:42 AM
Let me preface this post by saying this is in no way intended to kiss Dincrest's ass.... with that said, let me also state his ass deserves a smooch for that stellar review!

Why do I say stellar? Well because someone FINALLY gave a fair review of the title.... and let me explain myself further, I say "fair" because some other reviews I've read have left me wondering if the authors even played the game or simply derived their entire opinion based on the fact that "Idea Factory" and "Compile Hearts" were on the box.... and that is of course if it even got reviewed.... some major publications have yet to even touch it (if I'm not mistaken "Game Informer" didn't even review it..).

Now with all that said I simply want to highlight some of the finer points of the majesty that is Dincrest's symphomy of truth amidst a score of bias and lies.....

Enter Record of Agarest War 2. Forget about its fanservice, its silly limited edition pack-ins, and the poor reputation preceding it thanks to prior Agarest War games. Slough off that nonsense, open your mind, and give the game a shot. Perhaps you will then see as I do that Record of Agarest War 2 is actually a decent JRPG capable of standing up on its own merits without any need for gimmicks and baubles.


I feel like everyone should read that.... like it should be on the back of the freakin' box-LoL

plot direction is sometimes vague and there are a few occasions where it is far too easy to skip over vital plot points and events. For example, had I not been severely underleveled for a certain boss fight, I would not have revisited a previously completed area, stumbling upon a major chunk of plot and a key playable character!

Couldn't agree more.... as far as the games problem go, this was the biggest IMO... I actually had a similar experiences more then once and I am not yet through the title.

Despite reminding me of Valkyrie Profile, I actually found myself approaching battles like a Megami Tensei game where the key to victory lies in exploiting enemy weaknesses with various party members' strengths. Therefore, the swap-out command during battles will become your greatest ally. It is best to select the right party for the situation rather than play favorites.


Proof that (unlike other reviews floating around on the internet) Dincrest actually played through the title!! I love the (many) review authors who wrote this off as a "button masher"..... Mashing will get you NOWHERE after endeavoring a good leg into the first generation..... forget about anything beyond that.

This leads me to the best part of Agarest 2 – the music! Seriously, the music in this game is excellent across the board. Idea Factory's soundtracks can be hit or miss, but this one nailed it. I enjoyed the rocking combat music (particularly the Gai Desert battle theme), the standard opening vocal song, the "dance pop" vocal song following the prologue, the other "Easter egg" vocal songs peppered throughout the game, the shimmering save/load music, all of it.


... the biggest tragedy here is that the game didn't come with a soundtrack!... To make matters worse, I can't find it available to buy either... This needs to be on my MP3 player to jog to damnit...

it shows that Idea Factory has the potential to create good stuff.


My favorite line on the review and an appropriate way to close...

So with all that, kudos Dincrest! I have never had a "favorite game review author" but I now do :)
Title: Re: Agarest Wars 2..A thread about the game and NOT the fanservice this time....
Post by: Dincrest on August 30, 2012, 03:45:08 PM
Wow... I don't know what to say.  

I just hope others decide to at least give the game a rental and try it out.  

And, yes, the limited edition should have come with a soundtrack instead of a stupid blow up doll thing. 
Title: Re: Agarest Wars 2..A thread about the game and NOT the fanservice this time....
Post by: Embryon on August 30, 2012, 05:53:29 PM
Neal's got groupies, Neal's got groupies~

Hey, let me get your autograph while I still have the chance! ;3
Title: Re: Agarest Wars 2..A thread about the game and NOT the fanservice this time....
Post by: Dincrest on August 30, 2012, 10:18:12 PM
I have nothing funny to say. 
Title: Re: Agarest Wars 2..A thread about the game and NOT the fanservice this time....
Post by: Klyde Chroma on August 31, 2012, 03:52:47 PM
Neal's got groupies, Neal's got groupies~

Hey, let me get your autograph while I still have the chance! ;3

Haha thats right he does! In fact, I'm stealing that as my status for a moment if you don't mind.... LoL
Title: Re: Agarest Wars 2..A thread about the game and NOT the fanservice this time....
Post by: Kratoscar2008 on August 31, 2012, 07:15:48 PM
The game looks quite generic appart from the generation thing, and having played Ar tonelico 2 i can say that fanservice wont motivate me at all to purchase it.

Title: Re: Agarest Wars 2..A thread about the game and NOT the fanservice this time....
Post by: Dincrest on September 01, 2012, 11:22:26 AM
And I could say that you're judging the book by its cover.  Yes it's Idea Factory and yes it has fanservice, but the game is surprisingly good in spite of it and I rather liked the narrative.  I've played a lot of RPGs, and Agarest 2 actually felt kinda fresh and sexy.  Not an "ugh, THIS again?!?!?!"  

Give it a rental on GameFly or something and try it for yourself.  You might be as surprised as I was.  Take away the fanservice (which you do have to hunt for, it's not all gimme) and there is a solid game there.   
Title: Re: Agarest Wars 2..A thread about the game and NOT the fanservice this time....
Post by: Aurian on September 01, 2012, 11:44:51 AM
Ah, derp. I saw some Agarest games at my local game shop and picked up what I thought was Agarest Wars 2. It was Zero. And it was.... underwhelming.
Title: Re: Agarest Wars 2..A thread about the game and NOT the fanservice this time....
Post by: Dincrest on September 01, 2012, 04:00:15 PM
Agarest 1 and Zero were both bad.  Not fun to play at all. 
Title: Re: Agarest Wars 2..A thread about the game and NOT the fanservice this time....
Post by: Kratoscar2008 on September 04, 2012, 12:44:11 AM
And I could say that you're judging the book by its cover.  Yes it's Idea Factory and yes it has fanservice, but the game is surprisingly good in spite of it and I rather liked the narrative.  I've played a lot of RPGs, and Agarest 2 actually felt kinda fresh and sexy.  Not an "ugh, THIS again?!?!?!"  

Give it a rental on GameFly or something and try it for yourself.  You might be as surprised as I was.  Take away the fanservice (which you do have to hunt for, it's not all gimme) and there is a solid game there.   

Doesnt that had to do with the date sim elements? From what i had read that is important to go trough the game (As AT2 is necessary for the reyvatiels to take a bath to level up and advance the game) for that generation thing.
Title: Re: Agarest Wars 2..A thread about the game and NOT the fanservice this time....
Post by: Klyde Chroma on September 04, 2012, 03:53:46 PM
And I could say that you're judging the book by its cover.  Yes it's Idea Factory and yes it has fanservice, but the game is surprisingly good in spite of it and I rather liked the narrative.  I've played a lot of RPGs, and Agarest 2 actually felt kinda fresh and sexy.  Not an "ugh, THIS again?!?!?!"  

Give it a rental on GameFly or something and try it for yourself.  You might be as surprised as I was.  Take away the fanservice (which you do have to hunt for, it's not all gimme) and there is a solid game there.   

Doesnt that had to do with the date sim elements? From what i had read that is important to go trough the game (As AT2 is necessary for the reyvatiels to take a bath to level up and advance the game) for that generation thing.

You had to give reyvetails dozens and dozens of baths throughout AT2.... it was a necessary and constrant mechanic throughout the game that was quite unrelated to its function making it... well... just odd (what I mean is, who the hell decided to correlate bathing with become a more formidable combatant....?)..... additionally the bathing has nothing to do with the narrative advancing (aside from the fact that you will not get very far in the game without keeping your girls squeaky clean....)

The generation advancing in Agarest 2 only happens twice, it is necessarily tied to the narrative and does serve only to advance things in a logical fashion.... that is, due to reasons expressed within the games narrative you must choose a mate to ensure a generation beyond your current MC can carry on your duty/purpose. The generation advancing can be given a great deal of attention or be an afterthought depending on how you play. You can practically ignore the whole concept altogeather, and just simply reach the point in the narrative where the generation advances, pick and chick and keep on keeping on if you prefer.....

In other words, the biggest difference here is AT2 baths serve as a necessary (and IMO illogical) game mechanic for character growth throughout the entire game whereas generation advancing in Agarest is a narrative necessity (that makes much more sense) and only happens at story-specific points throughout the title. To be honest, there is really no similarity in the two that I can see.
Title: Re: Agarest Wars 2..A thread about the game and NOT the fanservice this time....
Post by: Alisha on September 12, 2012, 11:27:03 PM
klyde it is probally for the best that game informer didnt review it. pretty sure some years back a staffer was caught saying they review games from the perspective of fps playing fratboys.
Title: Re: Agarest Wars 2..A thread about the game and NOT the fanservice this time....
Post by: Royal on May 02, 2013, 06:07:30 AM
I started to play this but two things frustrates me:
- game is sometimes very choppy - I do not know if there is problem with my DVD drive, but I have no such issue in other games.
- very often, it is extremely hard to determine what is next step in storyline - where to go next. No journal, nothing. Maybe I should go further study paper manual.
Title: Re: Agarest Wars 2..A thread about the game and NOT the fanservice this time....
Post by: Zendervai on May 02, 2013, 10:06:15 AM
Yeah, the CG animation needs work.

The setup of where to go and all that is kind of a pain. I just used this guide: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/lv?key=0Aqs_mBqhdLO1dDJDTkZiMXVtZlQ1dXlpbV9Zd2pGRkE&toomany=true

No spoilers, but it tells you where to go and all that.
Title: Re: Agarest Wars 2..A thread about the game and NOT the fanservice this time....
Post by: Cyril on May 02, 2013, 11:43:18 AM
Ooh, I'm glad someone bumped this.  I Platinumed it a while ago and never really got to comment on it.

The battle system has an amazing amount of depth to it, once you figure out what everything actually means and does.  It took me about 1.5 playthroughts to master everything.  

It really is a shame that this series is always advertised based off its fanservice; the lore is incredible.  It builds off of Agarest 1's and elaborates the why and how of everything.  But, to be honest, I imagine the storyline later on would be quite confusing without having played the True Ending of Agarest 1, despite this being in an alternate universe.
That said, the storyline is much more personal and the true ending feels a lot less powerful than Agarest 1's because of it.

Code: [Select]
It blew my mind that you were Chaos the entire time. I was expecting something similar,
because the game tells you straight out during the second Generation, but even Weiss!

The Second Generation hero is amazing.  I mean it.  He's such an asshole that I can't help but love him.

On the technical side, you have to actually let the game "warm up" so to speak.  Once it's been on and loaded for about 10 minutes things speed up. It's honestly quite ridiculous.  I have no idea why they didn't just add an install, considering how long it takes to load when you first start.
Title: Re: Agarest Wars 2..A thread about the game and NOT the fanservice this time....
Post by: Royal on May 02, 2013, 04:24:15 PM
I played both previous games and I enjoyed the story. I start to like this one too for its nice colorful palette and characters.
Title: Re: Agarest Wars 2..A thread about the game and NOT the fanservice this time....
Post by: GuardianBoi on May 02, 2013, 04:37:36 PM
I had a lot of trouble getting through the first one. I just didn't like it.  I heard they got better with time and that the 2nd one was actually pretty good, I just haven't gotten around to playing it yet. The concept is super interesting to me, it was the execution and the battle system that lost me.

I heard the battle system is somewhat different in number 2...is that true?
Title: Re: Agarest Wars 2..A thread about the game and NOT the fanservice this time....
Post by: Cyril on May 02, 2013, 05:15:28 PM
The battle system is both different and the same. I'd actually put it as more complex than Agarest 1 and Zero's, as there are more factors you must consider.  In 1 and Zero end-game battles consist of knowing how to place yourself while staying within attack/link range of each other while also staying far enough away that not everyone is wiped out by AOE attacks. In 2 you have attack heights and types, wait times, SP (which not only is used in skills, but also for group attacks), as well as 1 and Zero's character placement and AP balance.

If you've played Cross Edge, you'll find it more similar to that.  If you haven't, well. . .it uses the same AP style combos, breaks/shields, overkills, and so on, as earlier Agarest games, but rather than having a SRPG-style map, the map is instead split into two smaller grids that are used for enemy and character placement and determine AOE range.  It's a bit hard to describe in words to someone who hasn't played it, especially because map nuances don't always become clear when you first play the game. I didn't understand a lot of it until quite some time in.

I tend to prefer the more traditional SRPG style of 1 and Zero myself, but the game overall in 2 is superior.
Title: Re: Agarest Wars 2..A thread about the game and NOT the fanservice this time....
Post by: Royal on May 02, 2013, 05:22:18 PM
Yes, battle system is different in 2, it reminds me Valkyrie Profile battle system. I used autocombat in 95% of battles in 1 and 0 and I was doing other things meantime. Curiosity what happens next and what choise I will have drove me forward. Also, 0 is a bit better than 1, no random encounters in the "dungeons" and upgraded autocombat. But 0 has only 2 generations.
Title: Re: Agarest Wars 2..A thread about the game and NOT the fanservice this time....
Post by: Cyril on May 02, 2013, 05:45:16 PM
I can't even imagine using auto-battle in Zero and 1.  It's so horribly, utterly inefficient, especially around the time you can use AOE every attack round (Gen 3/4 or so).  I'd make the argument that with how slow the AI is at taking care of enemies, you're actually going to be moving at a faster pace using direct control.

I do agree with Zero and 2 having a better dungeon system.  The frequent random encounters on 2's overworld were frustrating, though.
Title: Re: Agarest Wars 2..A thread about the game and NOT the fanservice this time....
Post by: mjrpgfan on May 02, 2013, 10:44:22 PM
So this is more of a traditional turn based RPG rather than an SRPG?
Title: Re: Agarest Wars 2..A thread about the game and NOT the fanservice this time....
Post by: Cyril on May 02, 2013, 11:21:54 PM
It doesn't really fit fully into either of them, but it's closer to turn-based, I'd say.
Title: Re: Agarest Wars 2..A thread about the game and NOT the fanservice this time....
Post by: Royal on May 03, 2013, 08:20:23 AM
I use escape mostly in the world map random battles.
I hope they will produce similar game in the future, because I start to like this one.
Title: Re: Agarest Wars 2..A thread about the game and NOT the fanservice this time....
Post by: Dincrest on May 03, 2013, 05:44:51 PM
Yeah, Agarest 2 is more turn-based and the prior Agarest games are more SRPG. 

And I agree that the plot direction is rather vague in the game. 

http://www.rpgfan.com/reviews/Record_of_Agarest_War_2/index.html
Title: Re: Agarest Wars 2..A thread about the game and NOT the fanservice this time....
Post by: Klyde Chroma on May 03, 2013, 10:32:54 PM
Golly do I need to return to the world of Agarest 2.

This, and Wild Arms alter code f bother me more than anything else in my backlogs.

I stopped mid 2nd generation last year when Growlanser came out. Big mistake. Never finished Growlanser IV (nor do I really care to) but I also have yet to get back to Agarest 2 (which I was having a blast with). The game maybe grindy and unnervingly difficult at points but I really liked the mature nature of the cast and writing in contrast to the friendly inviting and bubbly nature of the visual and aesthetic of the game as a whole. They cleverly captured a unique "style" with this title that actually made it quite memorable.

Agarest 2 is leagues beyond 1 or 0. There is no comparison in my eyes. It is, IMO, compile heart's/iF's best effort this generation with one of the most rocking soundtracks I have heard in awhile.

The gameplay is nothing to scoff at either. I actually wish they would use a battle system like this with a more traditional RPG... that right there could prove a pretty successful recipe if you ask me.
Title: Re: Agarest Wars 2..A thread about the game and NOT the fanservice this time....
Post by: mjrpgfan on May 05, 2013, 01:52:34 AM
I agree with you. The Agarest War 2 battle system looks more interesting. I don't think they can get the SRPG feel right putting all the fights on tiny grids like Agarest War 1. It's not like it's Heroes of Might and Magic.