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Media => Single-Player RPGs => Topic started by: PandoraWizard on February 06, 2018, 01:50:53 PM

Title: Things you can't bear in a JRPG
Post by: PandoraWizard on February 06, 2018, 01:50:53 PM
The title speak for itself. What are the systems, features, design decisions you can't bear in a JRPG. Or do you have examples of great design decisions that should become game standards?

I have started this post after reading Dincrest's comment in another thread, here's the snippet:

Quote from: Dincrest
My biggest problem with modern JRPGs is that the menu interfaces look stylish but are not ergonomically functional.  Menu navigation is more convoluted than need be and fonts are always minuscule.  Why is there never an option to increase the font sizes in menus and dialogue boxes?  Give me clean, simple menu layouts and large legible fonts. 
Title: Re: Things you can't bear in a JRPG
Post by: Mickeymac92 on February 06, 2018, 03:43:59 PM
I've only encountered this twice, but difficulty spikes following Points of No Return. Forcing the players to deal with significantly more difficult mobs without allowing them to grind against easier ones in case they were unprepared is just bad game design, and really goes against what an RPG is about, at least in my opinion.
Title: Re: Things you can't bear in a JRPG
Post by: Dincrest on February 06, 2018, 04:32:32 PM
I was about to again say "miniscule fonts in modern JRPGs with no way to make them bigger" but that was what inspired this thread. 

Another biggie for me is the classic obnoxiously high encounter rate, be it random or visible. 
Title: Re: Things you can't bear in a JRPG
Post by: Klutz64 on February 06, 2018, 11:34:51 PM
I feel like this thread always seems to pop up once in a while, but it's a fun topic, so lessee here...

- Completely agree with poorly optimized UI's, but I feel like that's an issue in all modern HD games rather than just JRPGs.

- DEFINITELY agree about difficulty spikes. Could barely even damage the final boss of the GBA version of Lunar and the final dungeon didn't really give me much exp to work with for grinding, either. Never bothered finishing it.

- I don't mind random battles IF they're integrated into the design of the rest of the game. Can't stand games with puzzle dungeons that tend to involve a lot of getting lost and backtracking paired with random battles.

-Too many/too little tutorials - Golden rule: Tell me everything I need to know to enjoy the game. EXACTLY ONCE. Though having an area to review for refreshers is also helpful.

-Useless mechanics - Can't think of any specific examples at the moment, but I know I constantly see this in JRPGs where some battle mechanic or whatever is introduced to spice up (see also: over-complicate) the experience, but is quickly realized to make little or no difference.
Title: Re: Things you can't bear in a JRPG
Post by: MonCapitan2002 on February 07, 2018, 02:16:10 AM
I think tutorials can be a real pain in the ass.  A better option would be to provide physical instruction manuals with the physical copies of the games as a handy reference and digital instruction manuals for both digital and physical copies.
Title: Re: Things you can't bear in a JRPG
Post by: Arvis on February 07, 2018, 09:19:51 AM
Difficulty spikes are probably the cardinal sin of JRPGs.  "Having fun?  We'll fix that!"  Good way to get me to never finish your game or recommend it to anyone.

On a more personal beef, RPGs that completely remove player choice and freedom from me, a la classic FFIV.  I want options to play with, dang it!
Title: Re: Things you can't bear in a JRPG
Post by: Dincrest on February 07, 2018, 05:48:27 PM
I generally don't have issues with games being linear, but the whole "forced choice" thing bugged me in Suikoden where I was given a choice and the game kept pestering me to choose the other choice that it wanted me to make.  For those who don't know, it's when [spoiler]the game forces you to say yes to Gremio coming with you on that fated mission.[/spoiler]

On the other hand, too much freedom to do whatever I want isn't great either, because then everything's too vague for me and I like structure.  Lute's quest in SaGa Frontier comes to mind.  You could theoretically encounter Lute's final boss in 15 minutes or so through aimless wandering. 

As for tutorials, I like how Grandia 2 did them.  At inns, there was a tutorial guy clearly marked and if you wanted to talk to him about tutorials, you could.  And if you didn't want tutorials, simply ignore him.  This way tutorials were always easily accessible to those who wanted them yet not intrusive and even optional for those who didn't want them. 

And as far as difficulty balance and grinding goes, my standard is that if I make it through the entire dungeon without running from a single encounter, I should be prepared enough to take on the boss. 

One issue that was highly prevalent during the Playstation era and still rears its ugly head lies in games where you can never get the camera quite where you want it to be.  One of my biggest complaints in Summon Night 6 last year was that I could not pan the camera 360 degrees to get full views of the battlefields. 
Title: Re: Things you can't bear in a JRPG
Post by: Der Jermeister on February 07, 2018, 06:17:41 PM
Unnatural battle dialogue. Even popular RPGs have it. Like, who the hell shouts "No good!" when defending an attack? (Vexen in the Kingdom Hearts games)

One of the biggest offenders in my mind is Lunar 2: Eternal Blue Complete where they shout things like "Ferocious wind!" and "Mega magic flame!" That's actually *worse* than shouting the names of attacks.

The shouting of attack names in Tales of Symphonia was at least bearable since characters tended to preface it with something like "Are you okay?" and "Don't overdo it."

One of few games that did battle dialogue right in my mind was Final Fantasy X, which was very subdued in that regard, and they said things before defeating foes like "See ya!", "It's over." or "Farewell!" before offing foes.
Title: Re: Things you can't bear in a JRPG
Post by: Agent D. on February 08, 2018, 08:59:19 AM
Non-skippable minicutscenes like when you use a summon in ffvii for the 85,000th time and you have to watch the whole thing. If they give you an option to do stuff during it like in VIII where you could boost or some other form of active input it's forgivable, but in this day and age, having to sit through an ability level up or item creation success is STUPID AS FUCK.

One of the few things in xenoblade 2 that drove me nuts actually....thankfully the music was calming.
Title: Re: Things you can't bear in a JRPG
Post by: NickRansbottom on February 08, 2018, 10:18:52 AM
Amnesiac heroes and fanservice.
Non-skippable minicutscenes like when you use a summon in ffvii for the 85,000th time and you have to watch the whole thing.
Also, this.
Title: Re: Things you can't bear in a JRPG
Post by: Arvis on February 08, 2018, 10:21:08 AM
Amnesiac heroes and fanservice.

LOL, so Ys and Ar Tonelico/HDN are right out then.
Title: Re: Things you can't bear in a JRPG
Post by: Dincrest on February 08, 2018, 01:41:22 PM
Another one for me, personally, is pop culture references in fantasy RPGs.  Working Designs used to be a huge culprit here.  Pop culture references kill any immersion I have in the game's fantasy world and become very dated very quickly, eliminating the timelessness that fantasy is known for.  The only time pop culture references work in a fantasy video game is if it's set in a more modern/contemporary time or are period pieces like Saturday Morning RPG.  That game was a love letter to the 1980s and works because of all the 80s references. 

Oh, and I always have to gripe about sequences, be they puzzle or platforming or whatever, that require the most minutely pinpoint accuracy to get right.  Xenogears' Tower of Babel was one sequence that made me indignantly throw things in nerd-rage because it was such a poorly done slice of video gaming.  It was also a sequence that I couldn't cheat my way out of, either through grinding or using a cheat device (like a GameShark) or what-have-you. 

I'm also not a fan of the following: 

-when there is only "one true way" to get a task done.  Xenosaga 2 was notorious for that with Break Zones.  There was only one perfect sequence to kill or even damage a foe, and hunting for that sequence was a crapshoot. 

-vague plot direction.  That killed any enjoyment I was having in Elemental Gimmick Gear because if I have no idea where to go or what to do, it's pointless. 

-And then you have those rare cases that feature both "crappy direction on how to advance" and "one true way" like the infamous "cat moustache" puzzle in Gabriel Knight 3.  It was, in itself, a clever puzzle but it was 100% arbitrary and completely out of context, especially since the dude you were trying to disguise yourself at had no moustache.  (ASIDE: Dangit, why does this forum keep redlining me moustache?  That is a valid spelling!  Webster's dictionary says so!)

EDIT: And when it comes to tutorials, while most of us cringe at all the hand-holding tutorials that keep interrupting our play experience, I think Unlimited SaGa is one game that would have benefited from some hand-holding in-game tutorials.  I'm a hands-on learner so I get more out of in-game interactive tutorials than just reading a manual.  Like when I'm playing a new boardgame or card game, having a more expert player guiding my n00b ass through the rules of the game teaches me how to play more effectively than just reading the rules. 
Title: Re: Things you can't bear in a JRPG
Post by: Rook on February 08, 2018, 05:24:39 PM
I don't hate random battles and will play the living hell out of FF10 anyday but I despise them if they are combined with any of these features.
-random battles in exploration driven games (Skies Dreamcast)
-obscene random battle loading times (Skies DC - some PS1 RPGs)
-battle systems that I hate (thousand arms)

This isn't really relegated to JRPGs (hai! X-Com) but cheap permadeaths in SRPGs. I hate it when your characters get one shotted becuase you moved a square too long. Permadeath is fine. It keeps you from charging in but give me at least a turn to get that player off. I loved VCs permadeath system and also Banner Saga had a excellent system where your character is sidelined for a few battles.
Title: Re: Things you can't bear in a JRPG
Post by: Dincrest on February 08, 2018, 06:18:45 PM
I obviously loved Thousand Arms, but man that battle system was a clunky mess.  It was FF's ATB and Grandia's IP systems gone horribly wrong.  I figured out a loophole/exploit to make battles faster and the back row more useful, but it took away all the cartoony personality that made the battles watchable. 

Another gripe- games on portable systems that don't allow anywhere/anytime saving or at least a quicksave feature.  When you're gaming on the go, the flexibility to save at a moment's notice is important.  Maybe you reached your stop on the train or bus ride.  Maybe your battery is running low.  Maybe you've just been called in from the waiting room.  Losing your progress is a bane of any RPG player's existence. 

Speaking of saving, I notice that a lot of modern games now only have one save slot.  Personally, I like to keep several saves. 

EDIT: I notice that some of my gripes are ones I've been harping about since circa 2000.  You would think that in the almost 20 years since then, some of these would have been 100% resolved.  But no, there are still games on portable/handheld systems these days that don't have anywhere/anytime saving or at least a quicksave.  Otherwise, yeah, my main gripes for the HD era of gaming are text fonts in menus and dialogue boxes that are too small and no way to make them bigger and menu interfaces that, while stylish, aren't ergonomically functional. 

I just remembered another one that one of our deaf/hearing impaired members told us about: Games that don't have subtitles during voiced cinematic cutscenes.  How is a gamer with a hearing impairment supposed to enjoy those scenes if s/he can't understand what the characters are saying?  We have a deaf student in our program this year, and he and I bonded because we both play video games.  (I've been wearing a Tekken lanyard with my work ID, he noticed that, and we started communicating about games.)
Title: Re: Things you can't bear in a JRPG
Post by: Arvis on February 09, 2018, 10:29:02 AM
Trying to picture a deaf person attempting to lip-read a video game character made me laugh, then made me annoyed.  Subtitles/CC should be in everything.
Title: Re: Things you can't bear in a JRPG
Post by: Der Jermeister on February 09, 2018, 03:15:17 PM
I think any text should be skippable as well, particularly for players such as I who would rather read the dialogue than listen to every voiced line completely.
Title: Re: Things you can't bear in a JRPG
Post by: Aurian on February 10, 2018, 10:04:47 AM
Trying to picture a deaf person attempting to lip-read a video game character made me laugh, then made me annoyed.  Subtitles/CC should be in everything.

Mostly deaf gamer here. I can enjoy some music but I cannot understand speech without lipreading. Sorry, graphics are not THAT good yet. I note that battles often have characters shouting stuff too but itís never captioned (guess it would get too distracting). I guess I am not missing too much though, especially when itís Xenoblade or Star Ocean...
Title: Re: Things you can't bear in a JRPG
Post by: Dincrest on February 10, 2018, 12:07:46 PM
And this is not even getting into those cutscenes where a narrator is speaking over a montage and his/her words aren't subtitled.  Even worse is when the narrator's voice is mixed too low and I hear the montage's sound effects more than the narrator. 

In other words, subtitles are good for everyone.
Title: Re: Things you can't bear in a JRPG
Post by: Aurian on February 10, 2018, 01:44:04 PM
Looking at you Persona....
Title: Re: Things you can't bear in a JRPG
Post by: MonCapitan2002 on February 11, 2018, 01:05:31 PM
I fucking hate random battles and I think they should remain in the past where they belong.
Title: Re: Things you can't bear in a JRPG
Post by: Dincrest on February 11, 2018, 04:53:34 PM
I'm okay with random battles, since they make it easier to grind if need be.  (I'm not a fan of excessive grinding, but sometimes you have to.)  However, being thrust into a battle every 3 seconds is excessive so the encounter rate needs to be balanced.  Wild Arms 2 had a nice mechanic where, if you were about to go into an encounter with lowbie enemies, an exclamation mark would appear over the avatar's head and you could press a button to avoid it. 

And let me tell you, Lufia: Ruins of Lore had visible encounters and made me wish for random encounters instead because it was done in the most maddening way possible.  This RPGFan review says it better than I could: http://www.rpgfan.com/reviews/lufia_rol/index2.html

Quote
Even straightforward, basic RPG action is terrible in LROL. The game sports a very basic overworld approach, in which all enemies are visible at all times and, theoretically, avoidable. In reality it isn't so cut and dry. Whenever you move, the monsters on the map move as well, except they seem to know where you are going. Have you ever played hide and go seek with someone who knows exactly where all the hiding spots are? You will with LROL; the enemies cheat all over the place. Combine this with the fact that some enemies can move 2 spaces for every 1 you take, and that they re-spawn when you leave the area and return, and you have an exercise in frustration.

Title: Re: Things you can't bear in a JRPG
Post by: Der Jermeister on February 11, 2018, 05:30:13 PM
There are other RPGs with visible encounters that do them somewhat poorly, like Grandia and the SaGa games, where enemies charge you regardless of strength.
Title: Re: Things you can't bear in a JRPG
Post by: Chronix112 on February 11, 2018, 05:36:46 PM
How about games where they have  visible encounters, but the enemies are so fast that you practically have to be near the end of the area to escape them.

edit:  If you escape the battle  the enemy just blinks for a very short bit, and then attack you again.
Title: Re: Things you can't bear in a JRPG
Post by: Frostillicus on February 12, 2018, 01:03:22 PM
There are other RPGs with visible encounters that do them somewhat poorly, like Grandia

I had tried to play Grandia for the first time this past year, and ended up quitting about halfway through, because I couldn't stand that the bullshit camera angle makes it so that enemies can see you well before you see them.
Nothing like getting jumped regularly in just about any given dungeon...


How about games where they have  visible encounters, but the enemies are so fast that you practically have to be near the end of the area to escape them.

I immediately thought of those damn flies in the White Dragon's Cave in the Lunar Remake. Why even make enemy encounters visible if they came move like that?
Title: Re: Things you can't bear in a JRPG
Post by: Aeolus on February 12, 2018, 06:50:20 PM
And let me tell you, Lufia: Ruins of Lore had visible encounters and made me wish for random encounters instead because it was done in the most maddening way possible.  This RPGFan review says it better than I could: http://www.rpgfan.com/reviews/lufia_rol/index2.html

Quote
Even straightforward, basic RPG action is terrible in LROL. The game sports a very basic overworld approach, in which all enemies are visible at all times and, theoretically, avoidable. In reality it isn't so cut and dry. Whenever you move, the monsters on the map move as well, except they seem to know where you are going. Have you ever played hide and go seek with someone who knows exactly where all the hiding spots are? You will with LROL; the enemies cheat all over the place. Combine this with the fact that some enemies can move 2 spaces for every 1 you take, and that they re-spawn when you leave the area and return, and you have an exercise in frustration.


Ruins of Lore is such a terrible game that I could be here all day picking it apart, but I'll limit myself to commenting on how similar the gameplay engine was to Lufia 2's, and how amazing it was to see it completely miss the mark (its amazing at how much jank and bugs both games had but RoL was almost completely unplayable, versus Lufia 2's *insert Grazte Empire here* and other minor afronts).

That said, my contribution to the discussion of onscreen rando encounts was the DQVII 3DS remake from 2016. High enemy density clogging narrow hallways made the change from pure Random Hajile almost completely pointless (the only real benefit was controlling at least one enemy you fought per encounter to make grinding for Monster Hearts or the Monster Park easier).
Title: Re: Things you can't bear in a JRPG
Post by: Agent D. on February 13, 2018, 01:05:12 PM
Fuck you guys, I liked Ruins of Lore. It was buggy as hell but the music was great.
Title: Re: Things you can't bear in a JRPG
Post by: PandoraWizard on February 21, 2018, 04:48:42 PM
How about games where they have  visible encounters, but the enemies are so fast that you practically have to be near the end of the area to escape them.

edit:  If you escape the battle  the enemy just blinks for a very short bit, and then attack you again.

I've just purchased Chrono Cross on Vita, and although it's a great game, I always hated the battle system because visible enemies feel like random encounters and there's no rewards (experience, etc) from fighting, so it's just repetitive in vain.
Title: Re: Things you can't bear in a JRPG
Post by: bigdeath on March 04, 2018, 08:01:48 PM
Pet Peeves

1) Very slow starts where you can go several hours before getting any action at all. Looking at you, persona series

2) excessive grind - e.g. - Tales of Beseria where I want skip fights because there reward is low and theres SO MANY of them. At least there are no random battles so I often can skip them.

3) tedious crafting/upgrade system. Sigh, once again Tales of Beseria.
Title: Re: Things you can't bear in a JRPG
Post by: MonCapitan2002 on March 07, 2018, 12:36:22 AM
Agreed on the crafting system employed in Berseria.  It was the weakest aspect of the game.  I think the entire loot system in that game was flawed.  I think with some serious revisions, it could be better, but not as it was presented in the game.
Title: Re: Things you can't bear in a JRPG
Post by: Annubis on March 07, 2018, 12:41:52 AM
3) tedious crafting/upgrade system. Sigh, once again Tales of Beseria.

I love Star Ocean 3, but jeez that crafting system is a huge pain in the ass.
Title: Re: Things you can't bear in a JRPG
Post by: Dincrest on March 07, 2018, 02:34:16 PM
In threads like this, I always gripe about FFXII's License Board.  I loathed it because it felt arbitrary, tacked on, made zero contextual sense within the game, and was needlessly complicated.  Why couldn't I just go to the store, but a hat, and wear it?  Why did I need to earn a stupid license to wear a hat? 

The new system in Zodiac Age was a million times better.
Title: Re: Things you can't bear in a JRPG
Post by: Arvis on March 07, 2018, 02:56:34 PM
The new system in Zodiac Age was a million times better.

But you still need a license to wear that hat, though.
Title: Re: Things you can't bear in a JRPG
Post by: Dincrest on March 07, 2018, 05:59:33 PM
better does not necessarily mean ideal/perfect. 

Both versions of FFXII have flaws in story, gameplay, and interface.  The best part about that game was the Gambit system because I could custom tailor to my exacting tastes how I wanted my companion AI to act, and have been spoiled ever since.  That's another one of my pet peeves is companion AI that's so absolutely brainless (even with rudimentary options on how I want them to act) that I have to babysit them or they'll blow themselves up.  That is not fun. 
Title: Re: Things you can't bear in a JRPG
Post by: Mickeymac92 on March 07, 2018, 10:41:13 PM
3) tedious crafting/upgrade system. Sigh, once again Tales of Beseria.

I love Star Ocean 3, but jeez that crafting system is a huge pain in the ass.

Worst one I've encountered, at least.
Title: Re: Things you can't bear in a JRPG
Post by: mooserocka on April 25, 2018, 11:37:39 PM
Things i cant bear in a jrpg is making it an action game. It was good in kingdom hearts but butchering ff 15 battle system like they did was a huge turn off for me. I just hate that system of fighting in j rpg.
Title: Re: Things you can't bear in a JRPG
Post by: Arvis on April 26, 2018, 08:40:59 AM
But if you like it in KH then you could like it in other games, surely?
Title: Re: Things you can't bear in a JRPG
Post by: Aeolus on April 27, 2018, 12:27:03 AM
Grinding DLC that's actually not very good for grinding in (actually most DLC but that's neither here or there).
Title: Re: Things you can't bear in a JRPG
Post by: The Legendary Zoltan on May 13, 2018, 07:46:11 AM
The god-damn CAMERA! Cameras do not need to be auto-correcting themselves to look behind you would be a start. But a much better solution is just to program the camera angles into the game. You'll get way more interesting angles than you can with a free camera and the background won't be ALL BLURRY FROM CAONSTANTLY SPINNING AROUND THE CHARACTER EVERY TIME YOU TURN A CORNER!

That and an overabundance of treasure chests. Seriously, nearly every game that exists could make treasure chests great again by simply reducing the number by about 90%. Maybe then, they'd actually consider putting treasure inside that makes the player happy they found it.
Title: Re: Things you can't bear in a JRPG
Post by: SonicDeathMonkey on May 19, 2018, 10:22:59 PM
better does not necessarily mean ideal/perfect. 

Both versions of FFXII have flaws in story, gameplay, and interface.  The best part about that game was the Gambit system because I could custom tailor to my exacting tastes how I wanted my companion AI to act, and have been spoiled ever since.  That's another one of my pet peeves is companion AI that's so absolutely brainless (even with rudimentary options on how I want them to act) that I have to babysit them or they'll blow themselves up.  That is not fun.

RPGs that want me to rely on AI companions are always a non-starter for me. I dunno why, but I find it infinitely frustrating when someone on my team does something stupid. Like you say, FFXII's gambit system did a decent job of correcting that but I still didn't find that particular brand of micromanagement very fun.
Title: Re: Things you can't bear in a JRPG
Post by: Aeolus on May 31, 2018, 04:01:18 AM
Using the Defend Command and having to wait until the character's turn for the Defend effect to come up. Why even bother with it at that point when you aren't stopping the extra damage, since any fight that it'd be an issue in the first place is one where the enemy is clearly out Agiliting your guys?
Title: Re: Things you can't bear in a JRPG
Post by: Dincrest on May 31, 2018, 05:34:02 PM
In the majority of JRPGs I've played, defend is a pretty useless command.  Notable exceptions include the Megami Tensei series and Legend of Dragoon.  In those games, judicious use of defend made all the difference.
Title: Re: Things you can't bear in a JRPG
Post by: Electricb7 on May 31, 2018, 09:19:56 PM
The Defend command is the greatest of clutch moves.
Title: Re: Things you can't bear in a JRPG
Post by: Aeolus on June 01, 2018, 12:01:41 AM
The Defend command is the greatest of clutch moves.

Which is why it sucks when it doesn't work as intended/at all.
Title: Re: Things you can't bear in a JRPG
Post by: SonicDeathMonkey on June 02, 2018, 01:48:06 AM
wow that is so true. using the defend move is clutch, but it's a complete gamble if you don't know if it's gonna activate when you want it to. i'm currently replaying skies of arcadia (the gamecube remake so i can finally get all the discoveries and chams without the broadband adapter i never had), and trying to defend in ship battles and getting screwed over by not only failing to defend, but also completely wasting a turn, is infuriating. luckily the game is pretty easy regardless. lol
Title: Re: Things you can't bear in a JRPG
Post by: Prime Mover on June 12, 2018, 01:21:49 AM
Gonna be a bit more esoteric here, but playing Xenoblade2 made me realize something that's been bothering me with jRPGs that I couldn't quite pinpoint (because XB2 actually does it right). One reason I love jRPGs is their insanely creative world building, both physically and culturally. Creating societies that revolve around tech and social ideas that are really quite alien. Unfortunately, most games do a REALLY SHITTY JOB of dealing with the implications of them. They're typically just a neat facade, you accept it and move on. In Xenoblade2, this comes in the form of a (wood be) Master/Slave race relationship. We've seen it in Ar Tonelico, and many other games that have beings who's only goal is to serve. This is just one example of incomplete world building that you see in jRPGs. Some teenage fantasy of having control over another (hot) person. Thankfully, XB2 tackles this pretty head-on as a part of the story. But it really brought up the fact that many other RPGs do a terrible job in rectifying their ethically dubious culture building.
Title: Re: Things you can't bear in a JRPG
Post by: Gregosa on June 12, 2018, 11:11:34 PM
My number one is definitely inconvenient saving. Sometimes you can go long stretches without a save point and its disappointing to experience a game over. I love the Dragon Quest series but it has this issue too barring lack of game overs. You often have to crawl through a lot of text before your save is actually finalized.

characters who leave your party. It can't be helped that some characters will have bad availability but I really don't like it when one character will disappear constantly. One big reason Dragon Quest 8 is one of my favourite rpgs is that aside from one portion of the game where a character leaves you get to concentrate on the four characters(referring to Ps2 version here) for most of the game.

Forced solo battles. These are really a mixed bag. Depends how good the character is as well as if you're using them or not. Just like my middle post I like being able to pick and choose my cast.
Title: Re: Things you can't bear in a JRPG
Post by: Arvis on June 13, 2018, 09:37:50 AM
characters who leave your party. It can't be helped that some characters will have bad availability but I really don't like it when one character will disappear constantly.

...

Forced solo battles. These are really a mixed bag. Depends how good the character is as well as if you're using them or not. Just like my middle post I like being able to pick and choose my cast.

Party-building is one of the most fun aspects to any RPG, so games that don't have it tend to rank lower in my book.
Title: Re: Things you can't bear in a JRPG
Post by: Gregosa on June 13, 2018, 02:01:16 PM
^ I completely agree with you Arvis.

One more I'd like to add that could be applied to any type of rpgs not just ones from Japan is poor descriptions for skills and abilities. Sometimes you get a better understanding searching online which lets you realize how practical or bad such an ability is. The mold breaker ability in the Pokemon series is a good example of this as the short description doesn't leave much to imagination yet it is incredibly useful.
Title: Re: Things you can't bear in a JRPG
Post by: Alisha on June 13, 2018, 05:04:29 PM
random encounters when i'm lost in a dungeon.
Title: Re: Things you can't bear in a JRPG
Post by: Arvis on June 13, 2018, 05:13:06 PM
random encounters when i'm lost in a dungeon.

Uuuuuuuugh.  Literally the only time I hate random encounters.
Title: Re: Things you can't bear in a JRPG
Post by: Aeolus on June 13, 2018, 05:38:02 PM
random encounters when i'm lost in a dungeon.

Uuuuuuuugh.  Literally the only time I hate random encounters.

Pack it in folks. We've found the one guy who can somehow tolerate random encounters while trying to solve dungeon puzzles or platform through them. :V
Title: Re: Things you can't bear in a JRPG
Post by: Dincrest on June 13, 2018, 05:45:56 PM
My only caveat with party members leaving is when they come back much later at the same level as when they left.  It's like, what, were you just loafing on your couch eating doughnuts during the entire time you were gone?  Why weren't you out doing stuff and maybe building some levels?  Next time you leave, come back with your levels close to mine, okay?  Or have a system like Suikoden where if you take a level 20 lowbie with a bunch of level 39 characters, the lowbie will reach level 41 around the same time as the others. 

In Tales of Symphonia, it helped that everyone's levels stayed pretty consistent regardless of participation, because I didn't use Sheena very often but she was a required party member for several boss battles. 
Title: Re: Things you can't bear in a JRPG
Post by: Der Jermeister on June 13, 2018, 06:07:02 PM
I think RPGs in general that have playable casts surpassing the number of allowable characters in combat should have some sort of incentive for using characters that would normally be neglected, like in the Shining Force GBA remake where characters reveal backstory about the game's world or themselves when you level them up. However, it can be hard in the series as a whole to level weaker characters if they do only 1 damage against enemies or die easily, which is why I also think grinding should be fun and easy, and proportional experience systems like Suikoden are in some respects preferable.
Title: Re: Things you can't bear in a JRPG
Post by: RPG-Man on August 06, 2018, 03:28:25 PM
Man This is gonna take a while...well here we go:















Wow....I blacked out for about an hour, the moment I started thinking about things that annoyed me in JRPGs everything just went dark and my fingers started moving on their own, sorry if I came out too angry in this post, just some pent up anger, also I wanna say that there is still more stuff that I wanna write about, but I don't have the time really, really busy these days.

Edit: typos.
Title: Re: Things you can't bear in a JRPG
Post by: Arvis on August 06, 2018, 03:44:23 PM
you think am gonna use poison on a normal enemy I can kill in 3 normal hits ?

I liked this one.  IDK if you've ever played any Trails games, but Trails of Cold Steel uses status effects really well.

Also, Japan and many other Asian countries are still absurdly sexist, so they have a hard time writing female characters that break trope.
Title: Re: Things you can't bear in a JRPG
Post by: RPG-Man on August 06, 2018, 03:55:25 PM
you think am gonna use poison on a normal enemy I can kill in 3 normal hits ?

I liked this one.  IDK if you've ever played any Trails games, but Trails of Cold Steel uses status effects really well.

Also, Japan and many other Asian countries are still absurdly sexist, so they have a hard time writing female characters that break trope.

I haven't yet, I heard a lot of great things about the whole series, so am holding out to play them all in order, starting from Trails of Sky then Blue and finally to Steel.

I know there are 3 games even before that, but I'll come back for them when I have the time.
Title: Re: Things you can't bear in a JRPG
Post by: Arvis on August 06, 2018, 04:25:38 PM
I know there are 3 games even before that, but I'll come back for them when I have the time.

I feel very comfortable saying that you can just pretend those don't exist.  That's what I do.
Title: Re: Things you can't bear in a JRPG
Post by: Gregosa on August 06, 2018, 09:07:54 PM
One thing I forgot to mention when I previously posted in this thread is clogged inventories. In some games your inventory can get clogged super fast and there's some stuff you really don't want to throw away. I ran into this problem a lot in Earthbound and the Golden Sun games. In the latter you really don't want to throw away the precious metals because you can use them to make awesome gear.
Title: Re: Things you can't bear in a JRPG
Post by: Rook on August 06, 2018, 09:45:39 PM
you think am gonna use poison on a normal enemy I can kill in 3 normal hits ?

I liked this one.  IDK if you've ever played any Trails games, but Trails of Cold Steel uses status effects really well.

Also, Japan and many other Asian countries are still absurdly sexist, so they have a hard time writing female characters that break trope.

I haven't yet, I heard a lot of great things about the whole series, so am holding out to play them all in order, starting from Trails of Sky then Blue and finally to Steel.

I know there are 3 games even before that, but I'll come back for them when I have the time.

Start with Cold Steel. If you don't like CS you won't like the others.
Title: Re: Things you can't bear in a JRPG
Post by: Agent D. on August 06, 2018, 10:14:27 PM
[member=5246]RPG-Man[/member] not gonna lie....you sound more like action/adventure man with that list of things you don't like....

I mean...attack sets you off....really?
Title: Re: Things you can't bear in a JRPG
Post by: RPG-Man on August 07, 2018, 05:21:09 AM
Start with Cold Steel. If you don't like CS you won't like the others.
But I heard they are all connect and are happen in the same world through chronological order, is that not true ?

I mean...attack sets you off....really?
It's not that attack sets me off, I have no problem with the attack command doing nothing special if it compliments the gameplay, as long as it makes sense it's ok, like in SRPGs for example, Final Fantasy Tactics or Disgaea, it's ok for attack to only do nothing but attack, because each character will have a lot of other options to make other than attack, they can move, throw objects/people, buff, recruit others, ect...there is strategy involved in our choices and thought behind every move.

But when it's a straight turn-based gameplay like Final Fantasy 9 for example, and the ONLY option for some characters to do especially early on, is only to do a normal attack...then yea I find that boring and a display of a lack of imagination, because wither you like it or not you only have one choice and that is to attack...that's it, and that attack option does one thing and on thing only, so my involvement as a player is almost nonexistent.

Now I only used FF9 as an example, even though I realize that FF9 was done that way because it was made with the idea of "back to the roots" kind of thing, and as a retrospective of the whole series to that point, so I don't really fault it that much, but others JRPGs who follow the same formula, while still having attack do nothing special, have no excuse for pulling this type of crap.

It's a relic of a time when JRPGs were still trying to find out who they are, like a lot of JRPG elements back then it was just another thing JRPGs borrowed from Dungeons and Dragons, but now that JRPGs have evolved and became their own huge genre with their own sub-genres, there is no need for them to keep something that makes no sense just because it's the "traditional" way, I love JRPGs because there is no other genre like it out there, and that's how it should be...imo.
Title: Re: Things you can't bear in a JRPG
Post by: Frostillicus on August 07, 2018, 09:23:54 AM
this is 2014 people.

:/

Also, why even play JRPGs? I mean, I personally tend to avoid things that set me off.
Title: Re: Things you can't bear in a JRPG
Post by: Arvis on August 07, 2018, 09:47:37 AM
Start with Cold Steel. If you don't like CS you won't like the others.

If you're more of a "Story First" guy, this could backfire.  Cold Steel 1 starts off really broad and tropey and can trick people into thinking the whole game is like that (spoiler: it isn't).

Start with Cold Steel. If you don't like CS you won't like the others.
But I heard they are all connect and are happen in the same world through chronological order, is that not true ?

No, that's true, but each saga only loosely connects to the others, so it honestly doesn't matter what order you play them in.  For instance, Sky is set in the country of Liberl and Cold Steel is set in the empire of Erebonia.  If you start with Cold Steel, there will be one or two references where someone will say "Can you believe what happened in Liberl?? OMG!" and then they'll mention something that happened in Sky in general terms.  While these references can technically be called spoilers, they won't actually affect your enjoyment of Sky when you play it.  In fact, the anticipation of finding out what they're talking about could even enhance your experience. 

CS1 and 2 are definitely making me want to play the Crossbell arc more than I ever have, for sure.
Title: Re: Things you can't bear in a JRPG
Post by: Dincrest on August 07, 2018, 10:29:17 AM
And I feel like a lot of indie JRPGs or J-style RPGs out there are at least trying to provide distinct storytelling voices.  And with a lot of J-style RPGs being crafted by non-Japanese developers, we're seeing more of their style of storytelling rather than the more "because anime" storytelling of JRPGs.  Yes there are plenty that adhere closely to the tried and true tropes because nostalgia dollars are big business these days (look at all the 1980s and 1990s TV and film IPs that are being rebooted), but there are plenty that dare to experiment.  We just have to treasure hunt for them. 

I sometimes feel like Anachronox was the right RPG at the wrong time.  It was released back in 2001 and still remains a strong favorite of mine.  I know I wrote this piece back in 2009 (titled Why My Favorite JRPG isn't Japanese), but there are sentiments that still hold true today.   http://www.rpgfan.com/news/2009/640.html

One pullout quote from that editorial that ties into parts of this conversation is
Quote
Yet, we still stick with the [JRPG] genre because that's the kind of gaming we probably grew up with, enjoy best, can see amazing potential, and where we beg with frustration to see that potential realized. I myself have posted on the RPGFan forums time and time again about what I'd like to see happen in JRPGs and visual novels to get them out of the stagnant rut they're in and realize their potential.

I've said a lot throughout this thread, and I'm not sure if I said this at all.  If I did, sorry.  One annoyance I have is when a game's New Game + does not carry over my characters' levels.  When I'm doing NG+, I want to be able to blaze past stuff to get to the previously unseen storyline content.  Otherwise, if I have to grind again like I did before, I'm less inclined to play because it feels like repetitive busywork.  I did a ton of grinding the first time, I should be rewarded with an easy ride the second time around.  Otherwise it feels like finishing your homework and getting rewarded with more homework. 
Title: Re: Things you can't bear in a JRPG
Post by: Arvis on August 07, 2018, 11:01:17 AM
Ladies and gentlemen, I present to you Dincrest's favorite JRPG back in 2009, winning out over other JRPGs like Final Fantasy VII or Chrono Trigger:

(https://didyougetthatthingisentya.files.wordpress.com/2013/11/anachronoxspeech.jpg)

LOL, just messing with you, Din.  We all have our quirks of taste. :P
Ugly polygons and cringey writing aside, some of this looks interesting. I like the cyberpunk vibe.
Title: Re: Things you can't bear in a JRPG
Post by: Frostillicus on August 07, 2018, 11:19:09 AM
^
I know I've said this before, but since we are talking about this game again:

I REALLY wanted to like it, but that first area got tedious so very quick. Maze, because maze? No thanks. That, coupled with unclear objectives... I just wasn't feeling it. I suppose I could have shown more patience, but I wasn't getting the vibe that it was worth it, despite the hype surrounding it. My free time is so very precious these days. I have to be selective about where said free times goes. Maybe some day in the future...
Title: Re: Things you can't bear in a JRPG
Post by: Agent D. on August 07, 2018, 11:26:26 AM
My only real peevs with rpgs of today are when they take steps backwards instead of forwards (Star Ocean 5). I'm also not a graphics whore but I find myself disappointed when a solid game like Octopath Traveller for example offers such depth and detail everywhere except for the characters themselves. I love octopath and all but I CONSTANTLY groan about the fact that in 2018 I'm looking at fucking 16 bit sprites. Honestly it did nothing for the game, it doesn't offer charm of any kind because the artwork is vastly impressive, it hardly helped make the game easier to produce because again EVERYTHING ELSE IS SUPER FUCKING DETAILED. I mean i just got to Riverford and the running river all over the place is fucking ridiculously well animated....SO WHY AM I LOOKING AT PRIMROSE IN 16 BIT EYESORE-ISH HORROR!?!?!

Still a 9/10 game though. Would highly recommend. Easy 10 if the character sprites were ditched, hell I'd probably call it my favorite rpg at that point.
Title: Re: Things you can't bear in a JRPG
Post by: RPG-Man on August 07, 2018, 11:38:09 AM
this is 2014 people.

:/
Oops, I'll fix that typo.

Also, why even play JRPGs? I mean, I personally tend to avoid things that set me off.

I thought this is what this thread is all about ? things that you can't bear in JRPGs anymore, besides just because you love something doesn't mean you shouldn't see the faults in it, it's because you love it so much that you want it to improve and become even better, turning a blind to a genres fault is the reason a lot of classic genres fell out of favor and some even disappeared entirely.

While JRPGs didn't disappear like those other genres, I think everyone can agree it's not as popular as it used to be, not even half of that, but fortunately for us with the explosion of the indie scene and the PC being treated finally as a suitable console for JRPGs, the genre is slowly getting climbing back, and hopefully someday it will go back to garner the same popularity it had back in the day.

No, that's true, but each saga only loosely connects to the others, so it honestly doesn't matter what order you play them in.  For instance, Sky is set in the country of Liberl and Cold Steel is set in the empire of Erebonia.  If you start with Cold Steel, there will be one or two references where someone will say "Can you believe what happened in Liberl?? OMG!" and then they'll mention something that happened in Sky in general terms.  While these references can technically be called spoilers, they won't actually affect your enjoyment of Sky when you play it.  In fact, the anticipation of finding out what they're talking about could even enhance your experience. 

CS1 and 2 are definitely making me want to play the Crossbell arc more than I ever have, for sure.
Hmmm is that so...because I thought that some characters cameo from game to game, a friend told me that Trails of Blue/Zero characters play a big role in CS, is that not true ?

And I feel like a lot of indie JRPGs or J-style RPGs out there are at least trying to provide distinct storytelling voices.  And with a lot of J-style RPGs being crafted by non-Japanese developers, we're seeing more of their style of storytelling rather than the more "because anime" storytelling of JRPGs.  Yes there are plenty that adhere closely to the tried and true tropes because nostalgia dollars are big business these days (look at all the 1980s and 1990s TV and film IPs that are being rebooted), but there are plenty that dare to experiment.  We just have to treasure hunt for them. 
I agree, just taking from recent years I found out JRPGs like Battle Chasers: Nightwar (https://store.steampowered.com/app/451020/Battle_Chasers_Nightwar/ (https://store.steampowered.com/app/451020/Battle_Chasers_Nightwar/)) , Battle Chef Brigade (https://store.steampowered.com/app/452570/Battle_Chef_Brigade/ (https://store.steampowered.com/app/452570/Battle_Chef_Brigade/)), Tale of Wuxia series (https://store.steampowered.com/app/377530/Tale_of_Wuxia/ (https://store.steampowered.com/app/377530/Tale_of_Wuxia/)), and just keep trying and use new methods to invigorate the genre.

This is also something you'll not see that much of in another other genre, the willingness of reinventing this genre, almost every other genre will wait for the one game that introduces a new feature to that genre, and when that feature becomes popular every new game in that genre will carbon copy that shit to death, not in JRPGs, there are literally hundreds of JRPGs with great mechanics that no other JRPG have copied, or if they did they made sure to add their own spin or innovation to it.

What's even better, back in the day at least, is that reinventing the JRPG wheel was the de facto MO, even now, no other genre is changing and transforming as much as JRPGs are, not even close, I can name now at least 10s of JRPGs that each work in a completely different way than the other, this is why I stuck with genre for so long after all these years, just think of it this way, games like FIFA and CoD are selling millions each year, but your hype for a new JRPG announcement is always 1000x times more than any of them.

P.S: Sorry for the huge posts, I tend to rant and ramble when talking about JRPGs, and by all means do tell me if it's starting to become a bother.
Title: Re: Things you can't bear in a JRPG
Post by: Frostillicus on August 07, 2018, 12:07:57 PM
Also, why even play JRPGs? I mean, I personally tend to avoid things that set me off.

I thought this is what this thread is all about ? things that you can't bear in JRPGs anymore, besides just because you love something doesn't mean you shouldn't see the faults in it, it's because you love it so much that you want it to improve and become even better, turning a blind to a genres fault is the reason a lot of classic genres fell out of favor and some even disappeared entirely.

While JRPGs didn't disappear like those other genres, I think everyone can agree it's not as popular as it used to be, not even half of that, but fortunately for us with the explosion of the indie scene and the PC being treated finally as a suitable console for JRPGs, the genre is slowly getting climbing back, and hopefully someday it will go back to garner the same popularity it had back in the day.

Whoops. For some reason, I was thinking this thread was about RPGs in general. Guess that should be considered a serious title read fail on my part. Also, as a father, I completely get your (valid) point in regards to recognizing flaws in the things/people you love. No argument there.

As for the lengthy posts, I personally don't mind. I'm a bit of a fast reader, and you seem to write well. I know several people here would appreciate tl;dr addendums, though.
Title: Re: Things you can't bear in a JRPG
Post by: Arvis on August 07, 2018, 12:15:18 PM
[member=2037]Agent D.[/member] would you prefer 3d polygonal characters in Octopath?  Or just higher-res sprites?  I think Octo's characters fit the world they inhabit, and higher res character sprites would require higher res sprites for every single NPC as well in order to maintain visual verisimilitude.  But I honestly don't know if that would have worked with the style of the game, in general.  They may contrast too starkly with their surroundings.  The game looks pretty perfect as is.

No, that's true, but each saga only loosely connects to the others, so it honestly doesn't matter what order you play them in.  For instance, Sky is set in the country of Liberl and Cold Steel is set in the empire of Erebonia.  If you start with Cold Steel, there will be one or two references where someone will say "Can you believe what happened in Liberl?? OMG!" and then they'll mention something that happened in Sky in general terms.  While these references can technically be called spoilers, they won't actually affect your enjoyment of Sky when you play it.  In fact, the anticipation of finding out what they're talking about could even enhance your experience. 

CS1 and 2 are definitely making me want to play the Crossbell arc more than I ever have, for sure.
Hmmm is that so...because I thought that some characters cameo from game to game, a friend told me that Trails of Blue/Zero characters play a big role in CS, is that not true ?
That may be true (haven't played the Crossbell games) but, again, it's all about perspective.  Whether you see them first in Azure/Zero, Sky, or Cold Steel, all that matters is that you're getting to know the characters and are interested in their activity.  So again, the order doesn't really matter.
Title: Re: Things you can't bear in a JRPG
Post by: Agent D. on August 07, 2018, 01:24:29 PM
[member=5295]Arvis[/member] I mean I would like the full FFVII remake treatment for it. For some reason though Squeenix seems to think that you can't have command driven turn based battles if the characters are realistic looking, but yeah I would love to see Primrose in some heavenly high res glory.
Title: Re: Things you can't bear in a JRPG
Post by: Dincrest on August 07, 2018, 03:28:09 PM
[member=5295]Arvis[/member] Yeah, the game is 17 years old (it first came out in 2001) so of course the polygon models look dated.  As for the game's writing, I thought it was brilliant.  The game wholly embraced its absurdity in the most beautifully effortless way.  I see nothing cringey about the writing in the screenshot, especially considering the context regarding the characters (Sly Boots and Stiletto Anyway), their personalities, and their pasts.  I read those and chuckled.  Better than any dialogue options in most VNs, that's for sure. 

[member=5053]Frostillicus[/member] Yeah, the first area (The Bricks) could be a bit much, but I loved it because it felt like I was in an otherworldly Escher dimension.  I compare it to Midgar.  Back in the day, a lot of people shelved FF7 because they didn't like the Midgar sequence (which took a good 4-5 hours.)  I remember whenever someone said they disliked FF7, the response was always, "You didn't get out of Midgar yet, did you?"  That being said, Midgar was easily my favorite part of FF7 and I would often replay Midgar and stop once the party hit the overworld.  I'm also a fan of point-and-click games, and some of Anachronox's progression required that kind of mentality, so I fell into it nicely. 

Man I loved Anachronox.  That game was so wildly creative, so much fun, and had mojo like no other JRPG I've played.  It's too bad Ion Storm went belly-up, because that game deserves a sequel because it left off on a major cliffhanger.  Yeah, an Anachronox HD remaster and sequel would be ace, but that's purely wishful thinking.  I still think that back in 2001, Anachronox was too far ahead of its time to be embraced properly. 

So in trying to get the thread back on track... I'm grasping for straws here, but some JRPG related things I cannot bear include:
1) Thousand Arms not being available via PSN. (That game was a total guilty pleasure for me)

2) There will never be a Panzer Dragoon Saga remaster because the original source code was lost. (That game is one masterpiece I never had the chance to play and will forever remain an unfulfilled bucket-list JRPG)

3) There has never been a Tokimeki Memorial game in English. (Yes, I know it's a dating sim game, but many TokiMemo games do have turn-based RPG-style battles and the games themselves are highly stat driven like RPGs.) 

4) I mentioned Anachronox being a dead IP now since Ion Storm went belly-up, but Septerra Core is another non-Japanese JRPG that I thought had loads of potential and still looks rather nice today (it came out in 1999.)  But its developer went belly-up too, so there is no chance of me seeing a Septerra Core remake or sequel.  A remake would be great to iron out some of the original game's flaws. 
Title: Re: Things you can't bear in a JRPG
Post by: Ex on August 08, 2018, 02:32:55 PM
I don't know about "can't bear", but "really dislike" I can do a top 10.

1. Long unskippable cutscenes, especially before a hard boss.
2. Text dialogue that c r a w l s and can't be sped up.
3. Absurdly high encounter rates (makes playing 8-bit JRPGs a slog for me).
4. Fight through a long dungeon, but can't save before the dungeon boss.
5. Amnesiac protagonist (this covers half the JRPGs in existence probably).
6. Very slow character/enemy animations that make battles take forever.
7. Excessively high amounts of melodrama in plot/dialogue.
8. Sloppy shopping / inventory systems that make item/gear acquiring & management convoluted.
9. Final boss has more than two forms.
10. Walkthrough required due to incredibly unintuitive plot trigger progression.
Title: Re: Things you can't bear in a JRPG
Post by: Der Jermeister on August 08, 2018, 09:48:34 PM
[member=7940]Ex[/member] I pretty much agree with all your points.

Another thing I'd add, personally, is not knowing the identity of all 27 True Runes in the Suikoden franchise, before the "infinite universe" BS they pulled with Tierkreis and the PSP game with untranslated subtitle.
Title: Re: Things you can't bear in a JRPG
Post by: Dincrest on August 09, 2018, 06:05:21 AM
I probably said this before in both this thread and others, but it hasn't escaped my notice that some of my gripes are ones I've been harping about since circa 2000.  You would think that in the almost 20 years since then, some of these would have been resolved. 

But no, there are still games on portable/handheld systems these days that don't have anywhere/anytime saving or at least a quicksave.   

I probably also mentioned somewhere else that I'm not a fan of voiced cutscenes that don't have subtitles.  Sometimes the recording quality isn't mixed/mastered properly and the voices sound muffled or are too low compared to the music and sound effects, so I can't tell what they're saying. 

I'm also still surprised that such things as "walkthrough required to compensate for vague plot direction and/or uncover convoluted secrets" still exist.  I remember back in the late 1990s and early 2000s, some games would plant secrets so obscure that they were basically there *to* sell strategy guides.  But that was ~20 years ago and the biz has changed. 

The power of love and friendship is still THE way to defeat the big-bad.  It was cheesy ~20 years ago and it's still cheesy now.

...

Fast forwarding to today, I know I've said this ad nauseam to the point where it's irritatingly annoying, but my main gripes for the current HD era of gaming are text fonts in menus and dialogue boxes that are ridiculously small with no way to make them bigger and menu interfaces that, while stylish, aren't ergonomically functional.  With today's technology, why isn't there a way to increase font sizes in games?  A little indie game like Echoes of the Fey: Episode 2 gives me a menu option to increase font size, yet bigger budget games from big name developers still don't.  http://www.rpgfan.com/reviews/Echoes_of_the_Fey/index2.html

Title: Re: Things you can't bear in a JRPG
Post by: Arvis on August 09, 2018, 09:34:47 AM
The power of love and friendship is still THE way to defeat the big-bad.  It was cheesy ~20 years ago and it's still cheesy now.

I see what you mean here, of course, but what's the alternative?  Winning because you have a better weapon?  Defeating the villain because your violence is more violent than his violence?  LOL
It's a tough one. :)
Title: Re: Things you can't bear in a JRPG
Post by: Mickeymac92 on August 09, 2018, 09:58:15 AM
^How about a JRPG where the fate of all life isn't at stake? Allowing both the solution and reasons for fighting to be more unique, and creatively tied to our heroes that we spend so much time getting to learn about and struggling alongside? Eh? Ehhhhhh?

...Yeah, you're right, stupid idea, forget I said anything...

As for things I can't bear in RPGs? I think I already said difficulty spikes a while back, but even more than those, I dislike any sort of time-pressure in games, especially if it means missing out on whole swaths of content. I can tolerate them in some forms, but the more it's tied into overall progression and used to justify multiple playthroughs or guides, the more it becomes a problem for me. I prefer to get everything I can on the first playthrough, and if that means missing out on important character moments because I didn't follow every obscure step down to the letter, or it becomes incredibly stressful every minute I'm playing the game, then it's just not fun anymore. I don't play games just to dump time down the drain, I want to experience new and interesting worlds. If I'm on a second playthrough, then it's not new anymore, and if I'm utilizing a guide, then I'm living through someone else's experience, not making my own.
Title: Re: Things you can't bear in a JRPG
Post by: Dincrest on August 09, 2018, 10:05:10 AM
The best instance of "the power of love" was in Billy & Mandy's Big Boogey Adventure when Irwin uses the power of love to save Mandy from the Boogeyman. 

https://youtu.be/8s8VC4kmoyE?t=2715 (watch from here till 47:30.)

The conversation between Billy and Grim about the power of love around 45:44 still makes me LOL. 



Title: Re: Things you can't bear in a JRPG
Post by: Arvis on August 09, 2018, 10:17:03 AM
^How about a JRPG where the fate of all life isn't at stake? Allowing both the solution and reasons for fighting to be more unique, and creatively tied to our heroes that we spend so much time getting to learn about and struggling alongside? Eh? Ehhhhhh?

...Yeah, you're right, stupid idea, forget I said anything...

LOL, some of my favorite RPGs do this, like Trails in the Sky 1 and Cold Steel 1.  Their sequels tend to swing pretty close to "the fate of all life is at stake", but still.
Title: Re: Things you can't bear in a JRPG
Post by: Agent D. on August 09, 2018, 01:00:23 PM
Needs more revenge plotlines.
Title: Re: Things you can't bear in a JRPG
Post by: Dincrest on August 09, 2018, 05:37:35 PM
Revenge plotlines are fairly common too.  Evil Empire razes protagonist's hometown, so he goes out to get revenge on the evil empire. 

Revelations: Persona for Playstation was unique in that though there was a "big bad" type villain, the real motivation was to save your friend (with mental health issues) from herself. 

And as a semi-tangent to the thread, I've learned to be careful what I wish for.  For example, I used to be in the camp that thought random encounters were outdated and visible encounters should be the standard.  But then I played Lufia: Ruins of Lore where I actually wanted random encounters because the visible encounters were done in the worst possible way.  http://www.rpgfan.com/reviews/lufia_rol/index2.html
As another example, I normally despise breakable weapons in my RPGs and question those RPGs that lack shops (e.g. Xenosaga 2) yet I rather liked Hexyz Force (which had breakable weapons and no shops.) http://www.rpgfan.com/reviews/Hexyz_Force/index.html



Title: Re: Things you can't bear in a JRPG
Post by: Aeolus on August 09, 2018, 06:06:57 PM
But then I played Lufia: Ruins of Lore

You have my condolences.
Title: Re: Things you can't bear in a JRPG
Post by: Dincrest on August 09, 2018, 06:13:11 PM
Ruins of Lore was awful, but I have played worse.  I have a morbid fascination with bad gaming and have reviewed more than my fair share of garbage for the site (though I thankfully did not review Ruins of Lore.) 
Title: Re: Things you can't bear in a JRPG
Post by: Aeolus on August 09, 2018, 06:42:38 PM
Ruins of Lore was awful, but I have played worse.  I have a morbid fascination with bad gaming and have reviewed more than my fair share of garbage for the site (though I thankfully did not review Ruins of Lore.)

How far did you get? Because the endgame just completely falls apart with bugs, glitches, bad writing and horrible unbalance (I had my post Ancient Cave protagonist fucking solo that bitch; especially since he gets a massive plot based buff for the final dungeon).

That said, yeah. There's easily worse dreck out there (Lunar: Dragon Song, White Knight Chronicles 1 & 2, Beyond the Beyond, etc).
Title: Re: Things you can't bear in a JRPG
Post by: Agent D. on August 09, 2018, 07:58:32 PM
Lufia Ruins of Lore was fun once you stopped caring about the story andnjust did the ancient cave. I dug the music, but I've always had a good appreciation for Lufia's music scene (dat sinistral theme yo....). I mean it's not great but it's no star ocean 5.

But as far as revenge plotlines go, you have openings there besides a single option. Person ruined your life, our for revenge. Persons killed your family, out for revenge. Persons stole your kingdom, out for revenge. I mean you're gonna fight them in the end, and the idea is you can either sate your bloodlust or rise above them, but the story can evolve quite nicely.

Title: Re: Things you can't bear in a JRPG
Post by: Aeolus on August 09, 2018, 09:12:29 PM
Lufia Ruins of Lore was fun once you stopped caring about the story andnjust did the ancient cave. I dug the music, but I've always had a good appreciation for Lufia's music scene (dat sinistral theme yo....). I mean it's not great but it's no star ocean 5.

Except that RoL's Ancient Cave sucked ass, considering the fact that you were limited to your MC and his Disk Monster only, Providences were not a reliable drop on any floor, and I don't recall there being a Blue Treasure Chest mechanic to give you a leg up on subsequent runs. You were allowed to bring in Eldin's & DM's Levels and Skills/Spells though which only meant that you couldn't expect to run the dungeon until the late/endgame anyways, and that you basically had to plan your run throughout the whole game by picking relevant Classes early (which were basically the Priest and Thief classes since everything else was either a stat buff or were bogged down with useless skills/resource hog spells.

And then the Disk Monster mechanic also sucked balls too, but that was more of a matter of RoL chasing that early 00s Pokemon knockoff trend.

The two things that amused me post RoL's Ancient Cave were Eldin's Disk Monster being significantly higher level than everyone else in the party (with significantly better stats too, even after your party members merge with their DMs), aside from Eldin who's significantly higher level and stated than his DM (mostly because he can't run away/get knocked out like the DM can and frequently will; also because of all the stat boosting monoliths and that endgame plot buff, on top of all the bestest equipment in the game); and that this is doubly true of that Furry party member (I don't remember his name, all I remember is that he's one of the saddest wastes of space I've seen in a JRPG party; can't do the DM thing at all, can't take a Class, can't learn any skills or spells, has shitty stats except for Atk which is only mediocre, shitty equipment options too, none of which he can use because he joins horribly underleveled to begin with, and IIRC has to get booted from the party for a solid while to make room for Dekar).

Actually, now that I think about it. The real plot of RoL was in getting Dekar some action. Once he permanently leaves the party, the remainder of the game just about hemorrhages itself apart.
Title: Re: Things you can't bear in a JRPG
Post by: Dincrest on August 10, 2018, 05:48:19 AM
I think it was in some sewer dungeon where I decided to shelve Ruins of Lore. 

The only Lufia game worth remembering is Lufia 2: Rise of the Sinistrals.  The rest of the series has been meh at best. 

Lufia: Ruins of Lore is a case study in what NOT to do in a JRPG. 
Title: Re: Things you can't bear in a JRPG
Post by: Agent D. on August 10, 2018, 08:41:04 AM
Jeez...game wasn't even that horrible....
Title: Re: Things you can't bear in a JRPG
Post by: Dincrest on August 10, 2018, 09:02:33 AM
Yes it was. 

Lufia is a series that had so much potential, but never realized it.  Lufia and the Fortress of Doom was alright.  Lufia 2: Rise of the Sinistrals was a SNES masterpiece.  Lufia: The Legend Returns was a disappointment.  Ruins of Lore was dumpster trash.  Curse of the Sinistrals wasn't bad, but like most remakes of classics, the original was still way better.

Yeah, that's something I can't bear- when a game/series has so much potential yet completely wastes it.  Several of my reviews mention me shouting "But you had so much potential!!!!!!" at games like an exasperated parent or teacher.

Star Ocean is notorious for wasting its potential over the course of the entire series.  With a name like Star Ocean... that evokes images of the night sky, outer space, traveling through the stars, interplanetary exploration.  It's a name that screams "space opera" yet rarely delivers on that.

Even if Star Ocean did take place on a backwater planet for a while, why not let it be a story about a kid who's fascinated by the stars, fascinated by the idea of traveling in space, and loves to study, but everyone in his/her backwater community thinks s/he's an aimless dreamer or just plain stupid and should "get your head out of the clouds and keep your feet on the ground.  Your parents are getting older and you need to run their farm or inherit their corner store or take over their inn." 

"...to sail the star ocean.  That's always been my dream.  This little town is great and all, but I want more out of life.  Not just see the world, but see beyond it."

And the story becomes a heartfelt story about a dreamer who perseveres in the face of opposition.  Against all odds, they find their way to rocket science school, endure the harshness of school elitism, create a few prototype rockets that fail miserably, but never lose sight of the star ocean.   

This little idea of mine isn't reinventing the wheel as far as JRPG storytelling goes, but it's at least trying to make "star ocean" a thematic element. 

Grandia 3 is another one that had potential to be amazing, but completely screwed the pooch.    Grandia 3 could have been wonderful, simple, heartfelt story about a boy, his plane, the unbridled joy of flight, meeting his inspiration... oh, and it COULD have done the parent-child relationship thing really well.  It could, nay SHOULD, have been a simple journey of a boy chasing his dream and leaving the nest.  A good theme to tie into that could, nay should, have been his mom's psychological journey coming to grips with her son becoming a man and not her little boy any more (though any mom will always view her son as "her little boy" no matter how old he gets.) 

...but then Alfina came along and messed it all up with a whole host of stupid JRPG cliches. 

I wanted more about Sky Captain Schmidt and Yuki's mom. 

Grandia 3's saving grace was its gameplay.  Grandia has always had one of my favorite battle systems, and it was particularly refined in 3.
Title: Re: Things you can't bear in a JRPG
Post by: Der Jermeister on August 10, 2018, 11:20:33 AM
I personally find the Kingdom Hearts games to have potential as well, particularly when it comes to humor as one would expect from a mashup, but they largely fail in that regard. Hearing comical-voiced characters like Mickey, Donald, and Goofy in games mostly devoid of comedy is pretty damn awkward, in my opinion.
Title: Re: Things you can't bear in a JRPG
Post by: Arvis on August 10, 2018, 11:37:29 AM
Hearing comical-voiced characters like Mickey, Donald, and Goofy in games mostly devoid of comedy is pretty damn awkward, in my opinion.

You know... I always felt something important was off about KH and I think you nailed it.  There's a serious tonal dissonance to the whole franchise.
Title: Re: Things you can't bear in a JRPG
Post by: Dincrest on August 10, 2018, 11:38:57 AM
That's one reason I could never get into Kingdom Hearts- it takes itself way too seriously.  And some things, in all mediums, should learn not to take themselves so seriously.  I remember this stupid OVA series called Luna Varga from way back in the day.  Luna Varga is an anime about a princess who, literally, has a Godzilla-esque kaiju (giant monster) attached to her hiney.  The first volume was more enjoyable than I expected it to be because it embraced its ridiculousness.  The second volume was terrible because it tried to take itself seriously.  For crying aloud, this is an anime about a princess with Godzilla grafted to her butt.  Not Le Morte d'Arthur or something. 

The other reason I could never get into Kingdom Hearts is that the camera is terrible.  The drunk camera hampered my enjoyment of the first game and when I demoed later games, the camera was still drunk and uncooperative.  I realize that bad cameras were an issue back in the Playstation era because 3D gaming was new and developers were still getting their sea-legs, but you would think that by now it would be moot. 
Title: Re: Things you can't bear in a JRPG
Post by: Der Jermeister on August 10, 2018, 05:32:45 PM
Also, near-death alarms. We're not freaking idiots. Just the red flashing of the health bar is enough to alert us of low health, thanks.
Title: Re: Things you can't bear in a JRPG
Post by: Gregosa on August 10, 2018, 09:23:42 PM
Also, near-death alarms. We're not freaking idiots. Just the red flashing of the health bar is enough to alert us of low health, thanks.
Pokemon comes to mind whenever I think of this. One change I liked in generation V was the revamped music for low health.
Title: Re: Things you can't bear in a JRPG
Post by: Aeolus on August 10, 2018, 09:37:30 PM
Star Ocean is notorious for wasting its potential over the course of the entire series.

Lol @ ^this.

Because seriously, Star Ocean never held any real potential. The producer went on record to state that all he ever wanted to do was to make yet another bog standard JRPG series in an era inundated in bog standard JRPG series. And no, even SO2 sucks, even back in the day. Most of us just weren't exposed to enough JRPGs at the time to notice the glaring issues of constant unwinnable boss fights, 100 different ways to break an already prebroken game, horribly unbalanced cast and writing (Claude gets to hang out with Starships and Phasers at the start; Rena starts out by delving into a rape dungeon that she'll eventually needs to be rescued from, by Claude), a meandering plot, and a thoroughly busted battle system (they never got Magic Symbology to not be a complete waste of time in these games, while Range is the fucking god stat no matter how Anime Waifu the character they stick it on is).


Lufia is a series that had so much potential, but never realized it.  Lufia and the Fortress of Doom was alright.  Lufia 2: Rise of the Sinistrals was a SNES masterpiece.  Lufia: The Legend Returns was a disappointment.  Ruins of Lore was dumpster trash.  Curse of the Sinistrals wasn't bad, but like most remakes of classics, the original was still way better.

Lufia 1 isn't actually all that right. Its rather bland for the time it came out in (FF V and DQ V both predate it, but it did come out  a whole two months before Secret of Mana and 6 months before Romancing SaGa 2) with its main redeeming features being its intro and the way it handles its conclusion. Lufia 2 may be fucking Lightning-in-a-Bottle but it still has its issues (like the early game meandering and the endgame's rush to beat the development deadline), but the fact that this was the devs 2nd game on the system and that it came out during an incredibly strong period for JRPGs speak more for the game's overall quality than any sort of potential. Lufia 3 wasn't just a disappointment, it was doomed to fail from the start since it was on significantly weaker hardware and carted too many legacy systems over from Lufia 2. Admittedly its 3x3 party grid and Wave Formation mechanic weren't bad ideas, they were just wasted on the procgen mystery dungeon game design. Ruins of Lore was subsequently rushed out onto the GBA which was unsurprisingly not a smart move considering their lack of proficiency with the hardware, which itself wasn't powerful enough to allow the devs to get away with what they got out of Lufia 2, along with the fact that they were desperately chasing that awful Pokemon-alike trend that gave us the late 90s/early 00s of JRPGs. Curse is surprisingly competent given what it was, its just also too boiled down and lacking in the charm that Lufia 2 had while also being too beheld to it. If the devs could ever get their act together long enough to make a stand alone game (or at least a brand new one) with Curse's level of quality, they might make an impact in today's market, but that would involve them getting ahold of those coveted resources of plentiful time, money and skill.


Grandia 3 is another one that had potential to be amazing,

...but then Alfina came along and messed it all up with a whole host of stupid JRPG cliches. 

To be fair to Alfina. None of the Grandia games ever escaped their host of stupid JRPG cliches, just like how none of the Lunar games before them could.

No matter how much they tried to dress up Grandia in this story of young adventure and coming-of-age discovery, they were always shonen style power fantasies at heart with Magical Princesses to save (Feena, Elena, Alfina), cooler adults to give their wisdom and their lives to guide the protagonist (Gadwin, Mareg, Miranda), obnoxious rivals to eventually come through for you in the end (Rapp, Millenia???, Ulf), evil villains looking to use whatever evil technology and ancient ruins on hand to dominate/destroy the world (Baal, Zera, Emelious), with the usual Team Rockets working for them, various fantasy races with absolutely no contact with each other until the protagonist shows up to spread the good word about the power of Jesus friendship, ancient discoveries that no one but the protagonist could've ever made (unless the villains got there first, although they usually prefer to wait just off screen until the moment you've done all the work for them), etc.... Hell, even the midseason powerups are the same (Dragon Slash).
Title: Re: Things you can't bear in a JRPG
Post by: Der Jermeister on August 10, 2018, 10:18:51 PM
[member=1214]Aeolus[/member] Plus Lufia 1's battle system was kind of unconventional in a negative way. You input commands for a few characters, the enemy goes, you input more commands, and the people for whom you gave commands finally execute their turns. Weird. Lufia 2 also had an awful localization that resulted in things such as a garbled Dual Sword Shrine. Plus battles were slow, and some puzzles hard without a guide. And whoever called the villains in the English versions "the Sinistrals" was obviously unaware the word means left-handed.
Title: Re: Things you can't bear in a JRPG
Post by: Spoony Mage on August 10, 2018, 11:23:55 PM
I personally find the Kingdom Hearts games to have potential as well, particularly when it comes to humor as one would expect from a mashup, but they largely fail in that regard. Hearing comical-voiced characters like Mickey, Donald, and Goofy in games mostly devoid of comedy is pretty damn awkward, in my opinion.

On one side, I agree.  Kingdom Hearts is an example of a series that got too big for its britches.  Like it tried too hard to maintain its child-like innocence with the darker themes the series kept bringing in as it went on.  I haven't played Chain of Memories (never plan to since I dislike card-based gameplay), but I felt that beginning with KH2 and going on with Birth by Sleep and the Dream Drop Distance the series lost its thematic balance.  Not to mention that the storyline has just become so confusing that it's hard to follow or care by this point.

On the other hand, there is just something fun about watching cute Disney mascots kick ass wholesale.  Mickey, in particular, going full on Jedi Master with his Keyblade is just badass.
Title: Re: Things you can't bear in a JRPG
Post by: Limlight on August 10, 2018, 11:26:39 PM
I can't disagree about grandia's story (the original) but damn did the battle system click with me, maybe i'm in the minority with this?
Title: Re: Things you can't bear in a JRPG
Post by: Aeolus on August 11, 2018, 01:52:21 AM
[member=1214]Aeolus[/member] Plus Lufia 1's battle system was kind of unconventional in a negative way. You input commands for a few characters, the enemy goes, you input more commands, and the people for whom you gave commands finally execute their turns. Weird. Lufia 2 also had an awful localization that resulted in things such as a garbled Dual Sword Shrine. Plus battles were slow, and some puzzles hard without a guide. And whoever called the villains in the English versions "the Sinistrals" was obviously unaware the word means left-handed.

Sadly, there is an ancient superstition about how Left-handed == Evil. At least that one can't be blamed on Lufia 2's localization since that was held over from Lufia 1 (not that Rise of the Superbeings would be much better). And on that note, there's always the fact that the series was named in the west for a character that literally only figures in the first game [spoiler](you can't even claim that its related to Erim since she spends Lufia 2 going by Iris, plus Lufia manages to end up as a separate entity by the end of Lufia 1 anyways, even if doing so effectively killed Lufia via memory wipe and didn't even stop Erim from coming back anyways).[/spoiler]

As for the gameplay mechanical fails, I had already mentioned it up thread 5 pages ago during my tirade against worthless Defend commands (albeit, I didn't exactly call it out by name, so spoiler alert, that rant was more specifically in regards to my Lufia 2 playthrough earlier this year). It also has a weird quirk where buffs/debuffs last until the end of battle irregardless of anything short of using the appropriate counter spell. If nothing else, it makes the Ancient Cave easier since it makes it easier to punch above your weight class a bit (which you were basically doing all the time past Floor 30).

Seriously, Lufia 2 is as good as it is in spite of its development, not because of it.


I can't disagree about grandia's story (the original) but damn did the battle system click with me, maybe i'm in the minority with this?

Yeah. I fucked up and didn't give Grandia's battle system its due. Granted the games often err on the easy side, but beyond that they're amazingly solid for their gameplay. But, yeah. You are definitely not alone in this. Its the main reason why the series is still even remembered today.
Title: Re: Things you can't bear in a JRPG
Post by: Dincrest on August 11, 2018, 07:02:44 AM
I think these songs are the theme songs of this thread:

"Everything Sucks" by Dope https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2uuLTG-qVkQ

"I Hate Everything About You" by Ugly Kid Joe https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VIP1NDosBJU

EDIT: And to keep to the thread topic, JRPGs are often notorious for poorly done mascot characters.  I get the need for cutesy mascot characters for marketing purposes, but it needs to be done in such a way that they endear you in the game and make you think, "I want a plushie of this!"  Otherwise, the mascot is just a dunce and nuisance you want to torture. 

And once again, I must remind myself to be careful what I wish for.  After all, Thousand Arms did a LOT of things I would consider "wrong" in this thread, but I loved that game.  Conversely, I'm glad that some of the grievances we had back in the day are moot points now.  For example, I hardly see JRPG localizations sanitizing booze into milk, juice, or tea any more.  (On the other hand, you could totally make a drinking game out of how old JRPG localizations would get rid of alcohol references.  Play a 90s RPG and take a shot of tequila if the character is drinking tea instead of booze, take a swig of one of those alcoholic/hard sodas if it's soda/soft drink, take a shot of orange liqueur or Apple Pucker if they're drinking juice, a shot of Bailey's or Rumchata if they're drinking milk...)
Title: Re: Things you can't bear in a JRPG
Post by: Agent D. on August 11, 2018, 03:26:12 PM
Can we change Aeolus's title to "party pooper" since he LITERALLY shits on everything we all love?
Title: Re: Things you can't bear in a JRPG
Post by: Dincrest on August 11, 2018, 04:46:15 PM
But this is a pet peeve thread, so everything's fair game and up for debate.  One person's noise is another person's sweet music.  I offered up those Ugly Kid Joe and Dope songs as theme songs since pet peeve threads always seem to boil down to "I hate everything" and "everything sucks."

Even for something that we can mostly agree on like "bad voice acting," we all have different standards as to what constitutes bad.  For example, in Atelier Escha & Logy, I thought the voice actor for Logy played it very naturally, whereas others found him dry.  Or take Fidget from Dust.  I thought the voice actress absolutely nailed Fidget and displayed a ton of range and acting chops.  However, a lot of people found her voice off-putting. 

Another thing I'm sure we can all agree on is that good music can often make or break a game.  But when we talk about RPG soundtracks we love or loathe, it gets personal.  For example, my disdain for Motoi Sakuraba's music is no secret, but several people think I'm tonedeaf or have no taste because I don't see the beauty in his "sweet lilting leitmotifs" or whatever. 
Title: Re: Things you can't bear in a JRPG
Post by: Der Jermeister on August 11, 2018, 06:19:06 PM
Personally, I really don't think voice acting is all that necessary in RPGs, since I tend to always skip the text if able to, anyway, since I'm more a reader than listener. Deaf gamers certainly wouldn't be able to appreciate voicework that they couldn't skip. I'd much rather the music be the "voice" of the game.

Personally, the worst voice acting I tend to notice is in battle, especially if the writing is shitty. I didn't like how in Personas 3, 4, and 5 how someone had to narrate everything that went on in battle, and in the fifth game downloaded the Japanese voice acting instead. I thought Persona Q's voice work was just as bad, especially addressing and referring to the chosen protagonist as "leader" (i.e. "Leader is dead! Can anyone revive him?") . And people don't shout out the names of their attacks in the heat of battle in real life. Lunar 2: Eternal Blue actually, however, did worse by having characters shout random crap like "Ferocious wind!" or "Mega-magic flame!"

Giving monsters dialogue in my opinion is a bad idea, too, like in Wild Arms 5 or Star Ocean 3. I turned off the battle voices in both those games. I've played few games where battle dialogue was done right, like Final Fantasy X, which IMO actually sounds believable and subdued.
Title: Re: Things you can't bear in a JRPG
Post by: Aeolus on August 11, 2018, 07:44:27 PM
Can we change Aeolus's title to "party pooper" since he LITERALLY shits on everything we all love?

It sucks to get old and jaded.

Although having a Triumph the Insult Comic Dog as an AV would be amusing for about a month.

But I probably should replace my current Avatar with one based on the bottom right part of this image.

(https://i.imgur.com/sh45pdp.jpg)
Title: Re: Things you can't bear in a JRPG
Post by: Agent D. on August 12, 2018, 12:34:18 AM
Can we change Aeolus's title to "party pooper" since he LITERALLY shits on everything we all love?

It sucks to get old and jaded.

Although having a Triumph the Insult Comic Dog as an AV would be amusing for about a month.

But I probably should replace my current Avatar with one based on the bottom right part of this image.

(https://i.imgur.com/sh45pdp.jpg)
Don't you dare use that as grounds to slander the epic voicework of Symphony of the Night. I'll end you in the most jrpg of ways....a long grueling battle where I mostly cast aoe heals every round and have 1 person attack because jrpg bosses are surprisingly dull....
Title: Re: Things you can't bear in a JRPG
Post by: Limlight on August 12, 2018, 12:42:06 AM
the eng dub for shining force 3 sc.1

To this day it triggers me.
Title: Re: Things you can't bear in a JRPG
Post by: Aeolus on August 12, 2018, 02:19:43 AM
Can we change Aeolus's title to "party pooper" since he LITERALLY shits on everything we all love?

It sucks to get old and jaded.

Although having a Triumph the Insult Comic Dog as an AV would be amusing for about a month.

But I probably should replace my current Avatar with one based on the bottom right part of this image.

(https://i.imgur.com/sh45pdp.jpg)
Don't you dare use that as grounds to slander the epic voicework of Symphony of the Night. I'll end you in the most jrpg of ways....a long grueling battle where I mostly cast aoe heals every round and have 1 person attack because jrpg bosses are surprisingly dull....

You might want to take another look at my current avatar and maybe try to note the theme I'm looking to go with here.

Also because I want to make a 'The "Luigi is dead" Stare' joke.

Because its either an avatar for comedy or for pics of old school JRPG females of not quite work unsafe nature.

But enough talk! Have at you!
Title: Re: Things you can't bear in a JRPG
Post by: Dincrest on August 12, 2018, 06:05:22 AM
Since we brought up Castlevania: Symphony of the Night's voice acting and voice acting is something worth discussing in a JRPG pet peeves thread, let's have a little fun. 

Castlevania: Symphony of the Night's voice acting:  Playstation original vs PSP redux (with Dracula X Chronicles)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eLIQCrVUrZU

Which do you prefer?

For me, [spoiler]original Alucard definitely had the superior voice to new Alucard and both had equivalent acting.  Both Richters were lousy, but old Richter was memorably cheesy.  Original Maria sounded too mature and new Maria sounded too "little girl."  Both Draculas were menacing, but I prefer new Dracula because he had more aristocratic smoothness along with the menace.

Partially because of nostalgia, I kinda prefer the old "so bad it's good" voice acting over the new voice acting which is merely competent.  Very plain vanilla and not at all memorable.
[/spoiler]

Title: Re: Things you can't bear in a JRPG
Post by: MonCapitan2002 on August 12, 2018, 08:22:09 AM
I would say the revised dialogue of the PSP version is a lot more natural sounding even if the performances aren't stand out in any way.  I do agree with your assessment that the dialogue for Dracula is markedly superior in the PSP version.
Title: Re: Things you can't bear in a JRPG
Post by: Agent D. on August 12, 2018, 08:47:15 AM
Og Richter hands down. Those lines were truly epic and cheesey and amazing. No one cares about Alucard's voice because he just beat dat ass, but Richter and Dracula's conversation is easily my favorite voiced moment in a video game....it's also the only one I memorized...so that.
Title: Re: Things you can't bear in a JRPG
Post by: Frostillicus on August 13, 2018, 08:39:13 AM
I can't disagree about grandia's story (the original) but damn did the battle system click with me, maybe i'm in the minority with this?
Yeah. I fucked up and didn't give Grandia's battle system its due. Granted the games often err on the easy side, but beyond that they're amazingly solid for their gameplay. But, yeah. You are definitely not alone in this. Its the main reason why the series is still even remembered today.

RE: Grandia 1 - Great battle system... SHIT exploration. Seriously, the camera is so damn close, I'm surprised it never hit any of the characters in the face. I gave up before finishing, it was so aggravating...
Title: Re: Things you can't bear in a JRPG
Post by: Dincrest on August 13, 2018, 09:45:31 AM
I think Fairy Fencer F and Granstream Saga were the worst offenders in terms of cameras being panned way too close to the characters to the point where it hindered exploration. 

But whatever camera issues Grandia had were fixed in Grandia 2, which I thought had a fantastic camera.  Everything panned smoothly, particularly in battle.  By contrast, Skies of Arcadia had very herky-jerky cameras in battle which made me a little seasick.  Combine that with the strobe effects making my eyes (and by extension my brain) go a little funny, and Skies of Arcadia was a very uncomfortable game for me to play.  That's why Grandia 2 is my pick for #1 Dreamcast RPG, despite Skies of Arcadia being the objectively superior game.  I don't like when games cause me physical discomfort.  Another one that caused me physical discomfort was Paladin's Quest.  That game's color scheme gave me massive eyestrain.  I couldn't play it more than 5 minutes. 
Title: Re: Things you can't bear in a JRPG
Post by: Aeolus on August 13, 2018, 02:52:00 PM
Playing through the second temple in Zelda 2 on a modern tv is an exercise in eye torture. The lime green bathhouse tileset was bad enough on a CRT, but on a flatscreen with a lower refresh rate causes everything to just blur together in a garish pea green smear.

But enough about emulation issues, Granstream Saga's excuse was in being devolved and released in the height of the "How do I even 3D?" era of 3D game design.


Another thing that annoys me are games that give out mostly monetary rewards where there's little to nothing to buy and no way to store the excess, especially in a game with a low wallet capacity. Imagine that I cleverly posted that Simpson's image of 'not accepting Scratchy Dollars' following this.
Title: Re: Things you can't bear in a JRPG
Post by: Dincrest on August 13, 2018, 04:29:24 PM
Although not a pet peeve or anything remotely detestable, I sometimes question the logic of rewards given after optional super-boss battles. 

For example, defeating Ragu Ragla in Wild ARMs gives you the Sherriff's Star. It's not a bad prize prize as equipping it as an accessory negates all status effects.  However, do you really need it?  You already defeated the game's most powerful boss without it and the final boss will be a pushover in comparison. 
Title: Re: Things you can't bear in a JRPG
Post by: RPG-Man on August 13, 2018, 06:23:39 PM
[member=22]Dincrest[/member] Oh man you really brought back one of the most baffling shit in JRPGs, you work so hard and level up so much just to beat the hardest boss in the game, and what do you get ? the most powerful weapon in the game...cool...must be great since I have no freaking use for it now isn't it.

Or when they do shit like in Legend of Legaia, where in order to get the most powerful summon, Juggernaut,  all your characters need to be at level 99, to put this into perspective, you usually beat the game around level 45-50.

Title: Re: Things you can't bear in a JRPG
Post by: Dincrest on August 14, 2018, 10:15:58 AM
Legaia had an interesting battle system, but its painfully slow overworld movement was unbearable to me.  I also found the boss fights pretty merciless.
Title: Re: Things you can't bear in a JRPG
Post by: Agent D. on August 14, 2018, 10:33:05 AM
Legaia had an interesting battle system, but its painfully slow overworld movement was unbearable to me.  I also found the boss fights pretty merciless.
Loved legend of legaia. Dope music, hot fighting system, Noa was (edited because 33 year old me can't say what 14 year old me thought),

TORRRRNNNNAAADDDOOOOO FFUUUURRRAAAAMMMMMMEEEEE!!

Edit: holy fuck, the wiki says she was 12....just bullshit on that....

Further edit: Vahn was 14?!?! Yo wtf....something's fishy there.
Title: Re: Things you can't bear in a JRPG
Post by: Agent D. on August 14, 2018, 10:41:34 AM
New thing I can't bear in jrpgs. HOLY SHIT MAKE THE AGES APPROPRIATE!!!!!
Title: Re: Things you can't bear in a JRPG
Post by: Dincrest on August 14, 2018, 10:43:33 AM
I think Legaia was one of the few instances where an "anime-thing" visually aged up the characters rather than vice versa.  Normally, characters are drawn to look way younger than they really are.   
Title: Re: Things you can't bear in a JRPG
Post by: Agent D. on August 14, 2018, 10:48:54 AM
I think Legaia was one of the few instances where an "anime-thing" visually aged up the characters rather than vice versa.  Normally, characters are drawn to look way younger than they really are.
It's bad in any case! All media needs to stop this shit! I mean for fucks sake, why do they make 30+ year olds play high school girls in movies and tv shows!?!? Just knock it off already!
Title: Re: Things you can't bear in a JRPG
Post by: Der Jermeister on August 14, 2018, 11:17:17 AM
Combat in the Legaia games was way too slow for my tastes, another thing I can't really stand in turn-based RPGs.
Title: Re: Things you can't bear in a JRPG
Post by: Frostillicus on August 14, 2018, 11:49:48 AM
I rented Legaia 1 back in the day, when it was new. Didn't keep it long enough to finish it. Haven't played it since.

I've always wanted to go back to it, and get 'er dun, because I remember enjoying it quite a bit.

However, given the time that's passed...Something tells me I'd be disappointed.
Title: Re: Things you can't bear in a JRPG
Post by: Limlight on August 14, 2018, 01:05:42 PM
legaia is definitely not for the impatient, it's slow, high encounter rates etc.
Title: Re: Things you can't bear in a JRPG
Post by: Dincrest on August 14, 2018, 02:40:33 PM
I think Legaia was one of the few instances where an "anime-thing" visually aged up the characters rather than vice versa.  Normally, characters are drawn to look way younger than they really are.
It's bad in any case! All media needs to stop this shit! I mean for fucks sake, why do they make 30+ year olds play high school girls in movies and tv shows!?!? Just knock it off already!

I think that sentiment rang more true during the 1990s with Beverly Hills 90210 being the scapegoat for that.  But nowadays, it's far more common to see teenage dramatic roles played by teenage actors.  However, when roles call for racy scenes and such, you do get 20-somethings playing teens because of laws that protect minors.  Of course in family sitcoms and such, the age differences between the actors and characters are almost nil, since it's all family friendly content. 

In the case of Moaning Myrtle in the Harry Potter films, they needed an adult to play her because adults don't age as rapidly as tweens/teens do and Myrtle (being a ghost) cannot have aged between 2002's Chamber and 2005's Goblet.  Look how quickly Harry, Ron, and Hermione aged between each film.  That being said, Moaning Myrtle's actress being 37 in Chamber and 40 in Goblet does up the creepy factor a bit. 

EDIT: And I wonder, why do most JRPGs only have ONE standard battle theme?  You spend more time in normal battles than anywhere else, therefore that's the song you hear the most.  The normal battle theme is the piece of music that usually makes or breaks a soundtrack for me, but even the best normal battle themes can get grating after 40-60 hours, especially when you only get to hear the first few bars before making the kill. 

And re: Legaia.  I heard that the sequel, Legaia 2: Duel Saga, was actually quite good. 
Title: Re: Things you can't bear in a JRPG
Post by: Agent D. on August 14, 2018, 05:58:53 PM
One thing in particular you really had to appreciate about skies of arcadia was that dynamic boss theme, how it changed based on situation. More rpgs should do that.
Title: Re: Things you can't bear in a JRPG
Post by: Der Jermeister on August 14, 2018, 07:12:38 PM
I also liked how the Kingdom Hearts games had different battle music in each of their worlds.
Title: Re: Things you can't bear in a JRPG
Post by: Agent D. on August 14, 2018, 08:36:07 PM
I also liked how the Kingdom Hearts games had different battle music in each of their worlds.
KH2's Pirates of the Carribean world music will always hold a special place in my heart as a strangely awesome beatdown theme.
Title: Re: Things you can't bear in a JRPG
Post by: Frostillicus on August 15, 2018, 08:33:23 AM
I think Legaia was one of the few instances where an "anime-thing" visually aged up the characters rather than vice versa.  Normally, characters are drawn to look way younger than they really are.
It's bad in any case! All media needs to stop this shit! I mean for fucks sake, why do they make 30+ year olds play high school girls in movies and tv shows!?!? Just knock it off already!

I think that sentiment rang more true during the 1990s with Beverly Hills 90210 being the scapegoat for that. 

(https://s8.postimg.cc/ceqcv90bp/90210_2.jpg)

Obvious reference, but I had to do it anyway.
Title: Re: Things you can't bear in a JRPG
Post by: Dincrest on August 15, 2018, 11:20:03 AM
That 1980s cartoon Beverly Hills Teens pwns 90210, The Hills, all that.  Seriously, can 90210, The Hills, and today's "spoiled rotten rich kid drama" reality shows compete with this: http://www.forcesofgeek.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/Beverly_Hills_Teens_Cast-1024x320.png

And though I griped about "y u no have moar battel theemz?" Phantasy Star III did the "multiple battle themes" bit horribly wrong.  I would hear multiple pieces of terrible music badly spliced together in an illogically nonsensical way throughout the course of one random battle.  It was one of of those instance where I wondered, "Were the programmers on drugs when they thought this would be a good idea?" 

Ugh, the story was Phantasy Star III's only saving grace.  Otherwise the grainy graphics, nails-on-a-chalkboard music, and plodding gameplay were abysmal.  I Gamesharked that game without guilt.  Okay, that's another gripe.  If I have to Gameshark a game in order for it to be even playable, then you know it's bad.  Xenosaga II is another one I Gamesharked with no regrets.  That game's battles were so poorly designed.  I had to find the needle in a haystack in order to get through even the simplest of normal skirmishes.
Title: Re: Things you can't bear in a JRPG
Post by: Aeolus on August 15, 2018, 11:59:28 AM
Say what you will about the rest of Generations of Doom, but that opening theme was actually pretty good, if in desperate need of better synth sampling.
Title: Re: Things you can't bear in a JRPG
Post by: Der Jermeister on August 15, 2018, 12:10:00 PM
The Sega Genesis never really had good audio quality to begin with. And yeah, having to cheat or use a guide is not an indicator of good design in an RPG.
Title: Re: Things you can't bear in a JRPG
Post by: Dincrest on August 15, 2018, 04:16:45 PM
Say what you will about the rest of Generations of Doom, but that opening theme was actually pretty good, if in desperate need of better synth sampling.

The opening theme, the Dark Force theme, the "airship" theme, and Council of Skyhaven were the only four good pieces of music in that game.  But, yeah, they sounded like nails on a chalkboard through the Genny's soundchip.  Even majestic Phantasy Star IV's soundtrack had those really tinny, peaky, dissonant, harsh-sounding high frequencies.  It was like trying to play a symphony through a cheaply made, worn speaker. 

And I don't know if this was mentioned at all in this thread but it's something worth discussing.  It was most prominent in the game Lost Odyssey.  The "Power Point" cutscenes were fantastically written since they were penned by an author.  On the other hand, the rest of the game was written by Sakaguchi, who's more of a scenario designer than a writer, and it just felt amateurish in comparison.  That contrast in writing skill was so prominent in that game, ya know?

And here's another pet peeve where I don't know if it was brought up before and I'm too lazy to look.  I groan whenever a dungeon makes me hoof it all the way back to the entrance after completing it.  I'm already weak and depleted from the boss battle, give me a break. 
Title: Re: Things you can't bear in a JRPG
Post by: Der Jermeister on August 15, 2018, 09:16:32 PM
The completely half-assed turn order meters in the Xenosaga trilogy. Seriously, what was the (il)logic of that design?
Title: Re: Things you can't bear in a JRPG
Post by: Limlight on August 16, 2018, 04:54:58 PM
I have to piggyback on forcing us to retrace our steps to exit a dungeon. The original friggin dragon warrior had a spell to warp you out of a dungeon so any "modern" rpg that did not should be bitch slapped.
Title: Re: Things you can't bear in a JRPG
Post by: Der Jermeister on August 16, 2018, 05:23:37 PM
Yeah, the original DW also had adjustable text speed and skippable text, so developers of contemporary RPGs that lack them should also be thoroughly disciplined.
Title: Re: Things you can't bear in a JRPG
Post by: Dincrest on August 19, 2018, 06:43:08 AM
Joke answer:

What I can't bear is the Owl Bear from Phantasy Star, because it neither resembles an owl or a bear.  It's unbearable!  http://www.phantasy-star.net/art/screenshots/psi/monsters/owlbear.gif
Title: Re: Things you can't bear in a JRPG
Post by: MonCapitan2002 on August 19, 2018, 08:19:05 AM
Although not a pet peeve or anything remotely detestable, I sometimes question the logic of rewards given after optional super-boss battles. 

For example, defeating Ragu Ragla in Wild ARMs gives you the Sherriff's Star. It's not a bad prize prize as equipping it as an accessory negates all status effects.  However, do you really need it?  You already defeated the game's most powerful boss without it and the final boss will be a pushover in comparison.
Yes.  It's even worse in Wild Arms 3.  You have to go through 100 floors of a dungeon where you can't save and must go through in its entirety in one session to fight Ragu O'Ragla.  You do get a Sherriff Star which enables every single personal skill on the equipped character, but you need to be level 100 to use it.  At that point, the reward is pointless.  Honestly, if it I wasn't playing the remaster on PS 4, I wouldn't have bothered.  At least you get an additional reward in the form of a trophy.

Still, winning an item that you really don't need as a reward is utterly pointless.  Seriously, it isn't worth it even with the remaster giving you a trophy.  If I couldn't put my PS 4 to sleep, I would've abandoned the effort.

Seriously, if you're going to put in a super powerful boss to fight in your game, you need to provide a larger reward than an accessory you don't need.
Title: Re: Things you can't bear in a JRPG
Post by: Aeolus on August 19, 2018, 08:31:43 AM
Seriously, if you're going to put in a super powerful boss to fight in your game, you need to provide a larger reward than an accessory you don't need.

Like say, having said super boss show up and defeat the final boss for you.

One of the four memorable things to come from DQVI (alongside Terry, the Murdaw fight and the Flying Bed).
Title: Re: Things you can't bear in a JRPG
Post by: Dincrest on August 19, 2018, 12:07:35 PM
And once again, we have old-school Dragon Quest showing us good ideas that more modern games still haven't caught on to. 

And this is more of a specific annoyance than anything else, but I feel like in newer Pokemon games (e.g. X/Y, Sun/Moon) the Legendaries were total gimmes and, frankly, kinda weak compared to many garden variety Pokemon in my roster.  I would like to see a return of is having to rise to some kind of challenge to get the Legendaries.  If I have to work for my Legendaries, I'll value them more.   

Title: Re: Things you can't bear in a JRPG
Post by: Gregosa on August 19, 2018, 11:59:34 PM
And this is more of a specific annoyance than anything else, but I feel like in newer Pokemon games (e.g. X/Y, Sun/Moon) the Legendaries were total gimmes and, frankly, kinda weak compared to many garden variety Pokemon in my roster.  I would like to see a return of is having to rise to some kind of challenge to get the Legendaries.  If I have to work for my Legendaries, I'll value them more.
I take it you want the catch rates for the mascot legendaries raised up? They have been made considerably easier to get since Generation V.Taking the Sun and Moon ones as examples they both have the same catch rates as Oricoros.

Title: Re: Things you can't bear in a JRPG
Post by: Dincrest on August 20, 2018, 09:26:10 AM
And this is more of a specific annoyance than anything else, but I feel like in newer Pokemon games (e.g. X/Y, Sun/Moon) the Legendaries were total gimmes and, frankly, kinda weak compared to many garden variety Pokemon in my roster.  I would like to see a return of is having to rise to some kind of challenge to get the Legendaries.  If I have to work for my Legendaries, I'll value them more.
I take it you want the catch rates for the mascot legendaries raised up? They have been made considerably easier to get since Generation V.Taking the Sun and Moon ones as examples they both have the same catch rates as Oricoros.

I think you read me backwards.  I want Legendaries to be more challenging to catch than they have been lately.  Either with low catch rates or have some kind of grueling sidequest to get them.  Make me work for it. 

And then take a page from what folks have been saying about uber-bosses; make the reward (in this case the capture of the Legendary) worth the effort.  Superweapon Legendaries like Mew and Mewtwo are so worth the effort to get them because they're so powerful.  I don't like that the Legendaries in X/Y and Sun/Moon were total gimmes and weren't that great.  Yveltal and Solgaleo were pathetic.  I had garden variety Pokemon that were way better. 

And for more wishful thinking, I would like to see a future Pokemon installment go back to the jerk/bully rival.  Gary being an entitled "daddy's little rich boy" douchebag or Silver being a straight up criminal made encounters with them feel kinda "dangerous" and I wanted to strike them down.  Lately, the rivals have all been nice and friendly, and I almost felt bad trouncing them. 
Title: Re: Things you can't bear in a JRPG
Post by: Der Jermeister on August 20, 2018, 01:21:47 PM
Speaking of catch rates in Pokemon, I'd like it if games eased up on elements of randomization. Say you have a 1/10 chance of getting a certain item or catching a Pokemon. Typically, each time you try to catch a Pokemon or kill an enemy for want of an item, your chance each time is still 1/10, and doesn't get any better. RPGs could implement a type of counter system that activates, for instance, on your tenth kill of a specific enemy or attempt to catch a Pokemon if your prior attempts have been unsuccessful, where you're guaranteed a catch or item, in which case the counter resets.
Title: Re: Things you can't bear in a JRPG
Post by: Aeolus on August 20, 2018, 02:46:07 PM
And this is more of a specific annoyance than anything else, but I feel like in newer Pokemon games (e.g. X/Y, Sun/Moon) the Legendaries were total gimmes and, frankly, kinda weak compared to many garden variety Pokemon in my roster.  I would like to see a return of is having to rise to some kind of challenge to get the Legendaries.  If I have to work for my Legendaries, I'll value them more.
I take it you want the catch rates for the mascot legendaries raised up? They have been made considerably easier to get since Generation V.Taking the Sun and Moon ones as examples they both have the same catch rates as Oricoros.

I think you read me backwards.  I want Legendaries to be more challenging to catch than they have been lately.  Either with low catch rates or have some kind of grueling sidequest to get them.  Make me work for it. 

And then take a page from what folks have been saying about uber-bosses; make the reward (in this case the capture of the Legendary) worth the effort.  Superweapon Legendaries like Mew and Mewtwo are so worth the effort to get them because they're so powerful.  I don't like that the Legendaries in X/Y and Sun/Moon were total gimmes and weren't that great.  Yveltal and Solgaleo were pathetic.  I had garden variety Pokemon that were way better. 

And for more wishful thinking, I would like to see a future Pokemon installment go back to the jerk/bully rival.  Gary being an entitled "daddy's little rich boy" douchebag or Silver being a straight up criminal made encounters with them feel kinda "dangerous" and I wanted to strike them down.  Lately, the rivals have all been nice and friendly, and I almost felt bad trouncing them.

Yes. Lets make Legendaries so strong and hard to get that they become the most difficult challenge/most powerful Pokemon in the game again, just like R/B/Y's Mew~

Although not a pet peeve or anything remotely detestable, I sometimes question the logic of rewards given after optional super-boss battles. 

For example, defeating Ragu Ragla in Wild ARMs gives you the Sherriff's Star. It's not a bad prize prize as equipping it as an accessory negates all status effects.  However, do you really need it?  You already defeated the game's most powerful boss without it and the final boss will be a pushover in comparison.

~two....

(https://fi.somethingawful.com/images/smilies/thinkface.png)
Title: Re: Things you can't bear in a JRPG
Post by: Dincrest on August 20, 2018, 03:44:36 PM
But the final boss is never really the final boss in any Pokemon game.  You have the robust post game which is usually quite challenging, so actually using the "uber boss reward" from the main game is feasible. 
Title: Re: Things you can't bear in a JRPG
Post by: Aeolus on August 20, 2018, 09:49:49 PM
But the final boss is never really the final boss in any Pokemon game.  You have the robust post game which is usually quite challenging, so actually using the "uber boss reward" from the main game is feasible.

Except that specifically in Pokemons Red/Blue/Yellow, the post game mostly consists of the Unknown Dungeon, and the final challenge of the Unknown Dungeon is Mewtwo.

Ergo, (https://fi.somethingawful.com/images/smilies/thinkface.png)


(Admittedly, the Master Ball exists specifically to chump Mewtwo, so both of our arguments are built upon flawed premises to begin with.)
Title: Re: Things you can't bear in a JRPG
Post by: Dincrest on August 21, 2018, 06:03:06 AM
Gotta love JRPGs and their logic defying conundrums. 

I have an explosive magic spell that can crush mountains, yet I need to find a key to unlock a door in a rickety dungeon. 

The villain withstands my barrage of meteor spells yet is killed by a dagger (for plot purposes.) 

With a few exceptions (Tales of Destiny being one), JRPG houses don't have bathrooms/toilets. 

Animals carry cash. 

But if a game is too realistic, it becomes dull and monotonous like ShenMue.  Best thing about ShenMue was this commercial: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B7yNonPzOio
Title: Re: Things you can't bear in a JRPG
Post by: Aeolus on August 21, 2018, 07:26:46 AM
But if a game is too realistic, it becomes dull and monotonous like ShenMue.

(https://media.giphy.com/media/14aK8lCSfQNh9S/giphy.gif)


And speaking of Shenmue: https://gematsu.com/2018/08/shenmue-iii-launches-august-27-2019
Title: Re: Things you can't bear in a JRPG
Post by: Dincrest on August 21, 2018, 10:52:28 AM
I dare to blaspheme!

ShenMue was a gorgeous game with incredible music and some nifty ideas, but I felt like I spent the majority of that game just idling my time away.  And even then, nothing much really happened plotwise.  It felt like having an entire loaf of bread, but only 1 shmeer of peanut butter to use for all 12 slices.  ShenMue was an overhyped waste of time and money for me.  Great tech demo, sorry excuse for a game.  To me, it just felt like Yu Suzuki got too carried away with realism, and somehow forgot that everyday "real" life isnít always fun and can be a slog. 

https://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2000/11/15

Still, I'd say at least 90% of the pet peeves in this thread can be looked at on a case to case basis.  Although I dislike breakable weapons, there were games where I didn't mind and/or actually liked that mechanic.  In the random vs visible encounters debate, there are games that did visible encounters horribly wrong and I would have preferred random.  I'm not a fan of excessive grinding, but there have been games where I was okay with it.  And there are those annoyances that are specific to a particular game that would be a non-factor in others.  Conversely, there are cases like Legend of Dragoon that had a laundry list of flaws that would normally be dealbreakers for me, but I rather enjoyed that game. 

I think the only pet peeve I have that remains universal is "small text fonts with no menu option to make them bigger."  There is no getting around it, that is something that I dislike in all cases. 
Title: Re: Things you can't bear in a JRPG
Post by: Arvis on August 21, 2018, 11:26:24 AM
The Shenmue OST really is amazing.  I say that as someone who has never played Shenmue.
Title: Re: Things you can't bear in a JRPG
Post by: Agent D. on August 21, 2018, 02:56:10 PM
The Shenmue OST really is amazing.  I say that as someone who has never played Shenmue.
What REALLY bugs me about jrpgs is Arvis is STILL no back on discord to join in our legendary shenanigans. Hate when JRPGS do that.
Title: Re: Things you can't bear in a JRPG
Post by: Arvis on August 21, 2018, 03:00:41 PM
LOL, D!

I do miss the Discord, but work's been crazy so I had to step away from some of the more distracting distractions I had accumulated in my work routine.  The RPG Fan Discord was, BY FAR, the most distracting!  Ha ha!

I'll try popping my head back in someday soon, esp when DQXI and VC4 drop.
Title: Re: Things you can't bear in a JRPG
Post by: Agent D. on August 21, 2018, 03:03:51 PM
LOL, D!

I do miss the Discord, but work's been crazy so I had to step away from some of the more distracting distractions I had accumulated in my work routine.  The RPG Fan Discord was, BY FAR, the most distracting!  Ha ha!

I'll try popping my head back in someday soon, esp when DQXI and VC4 drop.
But you actually said you left when Octopath dropped to avoid spoilers. Wouldn't that logic apply to both of those games as well?
Title: Re: Things you can't bear in a JRPG
Post by: Arvis on August 21, 2018, 03:22:36 PM
Except I'll actually be playing those games...
Title: Re: Things you can't bear in a JRPG
Post by: Agent D. on August 21, 2018, 03:41:35 PM
Except I'll actually be playing those games...
Man I hate it when someone plays the same jrpg as me and we can talk shop about it.

(https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/000/091/TrollFace.jpg)
Title: Re: Things you can't bear in a JRPG
Post by: Arvis on August 21, 2018, 04:14:51 PM
Too bad, I'll be talking about it with you whether you like it or not!!