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Media => Single-Player RPGs => Topic started by: Akira on March 11, 2009, 01:40:09 AM

Title: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Akira on March 11, 2009, 01:40:09 AM
So my review for Devil Summoner IV is finally up and I figured now might be a nice time to see what people think about this series overall.

As I mentioned in the review, a lot of Megaten games never made it out of Japan. Since Persona 3 though (or really since Nocturne) the series has started to become more popular in the west. Just like the Watchmen movie has attracted thousands of people to the graphic novel, Persona 3 and 4 have really broadened the appeal of the series.

I don't write off these folks as posers as some people do on other boards. I like it when quality works get more attention, which isn't to say that there is a lack of pretentious n00bs. I just want to hear what people think about the series. How'd you get into it? What's your favorite game? Do you absolutely hate it, love it, or like some of it?

I got into it when I came to Japan a few years ago. First game was Persona on playstation, which took forever because I couldn't read Japanese that well. After that I got into Soul Hackers and Nocturne and by then I was hooked. Really dark and cool stories with some great soundtracks and best of all, challenge. I'm playing Devil Survivor on DS now and it is balls hard.

While I haven't played every MegaTen game, none of the ones I've beaten so far have been bad. (Although Devil Summoner 1 on PSP isn't great)
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Sketch on March 11, 2009, 01:49:23 AM
I have yet to encounter a Megaten game I dislike. I used to be the type of person that bought pretty much every RPG that got released, so when Nocturne came around, that was my first game in the series. Since then, I've played Devil Summoner, Persona 3 (and FES), Digital Devil Saga, and Persona 2: Eternal Punishment, with the latter three on my personal top ten list.

It's just a great series.

I guess I mostly respond to the subject matter. I absolutely love the dark imagery and macabre themes that they cram into these games; it's stuff that no other series attempts. There's all this blood and guts, psychotic characters, swearing, sexual undertones, etc. It's so different than what I'm used to in terms of RPGs. And, like you, I dig the difficulty. I always get pissed off at how hard they are, but it feels downright amazing when I'm able to fight against a super tough boss and come out on time. I haven't gotten nearly as much satisfaction from other games in the genre.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Eusis on March 11, 2009, 01:53:30 AM
I don't write off these folks as posers as some people do on other boards.

I tend to only be annoyed by how some people seemed to just want more and more Persona. Then again I don't think I've been hearing clamoring for a P5, so I guess most people just wanted a single encore. Or are still playing P4, whichever.

Anyways, MegaTen's my favorite RPG series currently, with Dragon Quest behind it. I liked P1 and P2, but Nocturne and future installments were just much more enjoyable than those we received prior. Nocturne was the one I liked most though, DDS was great but came off as a bit... shallow I guess compared to Nocturne and just wasn't as complete and robust. P3's probably right behind Nocturne, however it's the one I'm more inclined to recommend to newcomers. I still need to play through Devil Summoner though, I'll probably just blast through it sometime before the sequel hits.

Oh, and there's Last Bible and the DemiKids games. I'd like to give Last Bible another shot, but DemiKids... well, maybe that too, but it didn't leave much of an impression.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: MeshGearFox on March 11, 2009, 02:11:44 AM
I agree with Eusis, though about demikids, the japanese devil children games were substantially better than the two demikids we got in the states from what I remember. they had like, storylines and stuff.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: ChevalierEagle on March 11, 2009, 02:27:32 AM
I started with Nocturne, but i already knew about the existance of the franchise. I still have to finish Nocturne btw, i'm still with P3 and i have enjoy it a lot, while i liked Nocturne's dark end-of-the-world atmosphere and such i got hooked with P3 a lot more.

BTW, is it normal in the franchise to have enemies so damn cheap, or just a thing of P3? While i love the game it's quite frustrating to see the game over screen so often just because some enemy decided to use an attack that instantly kills my entire party like if it was nothing.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Hidoshi on March 11, 2009, 06:11:24 AM
I rather prefer Persona 2 and 4 for that franchise. P3 had a lot of interesting concepts, but they wore off on me quickly. It was too sparse in terms of compelling narrative, and I never felt that close to the characters.

My favourite SMT product though? Digital Devil Saga 2. There's something rather haunting about that whole series, and 2 brought the story started in 1 to an even better place. I'm rather distraught at certain mucking abouts with Hindu cosmology, but that's a personal issue. I've come to expect that kind of thing with Atlus' psychological brainchild.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: ChevalierEagle on March 11, 2009, 06:24:05 AM
Another question, i have to play Digital Devil Saga 1 to get DDS2 in terms of plot? Is it mandatory?
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Hidoshi on March 11, 2009, 06:27:39 AM
It's not. But I would recommend it. You get a decent amount of flashback to understand things, but you'll miss out on a lot of emphasis, such as certain traits Heat and Argilla have which are heavily supported by the story in DDS1.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Sketch on March 11, 2009, 06:41:09 AM
Digital Devil Saga 2 is nowhere near as effective without the character development portrayed in DDS1. The storyline of DDS1 might seem somewhat small once the series segways into the second game, but really, you need to experience it. The exposition helps tremendously.

It's entirely mandatory in my opinion.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: CDFN on March 11, 2009, 07:31:09 AM
My first SMT game was Nocturne. I loved it and had to check out the other games in the series. The DDS games came very close to Nocturne in my favorite games ever list.
When I saw the first screens and videos of P3 I was surprised by how different it was. But somehow it appealed to me and I gave it a shot. Right now P3 and P4 are in my top 3 favorite games ever.
I enjoyed Raidou and am looking forward to the sequel. Just read your review and I'm glad that the game is such a huge improvement over the first one.

Best series on the the best console ever. I think that says it all.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Dincrest on March 11, 2009, 07:46:59 AM
I was one of the most vocal MegaTentists back when I first started posting on RPGFan.  I used to be freaking obsessed with the series and had collected a lot of MegaTen games... which I later sold off to buy a bass amp.  

Revelations: Persona for Playstation was my initiation.  I actually disliked the game at first and was almost ready to trade it in for another game (I think it was Star Ocean 2) but circumstances didn't get me to the game shop so I decided to give Persona some more time... and I loved it.  

At some point, I owned the following and a few I still own:
Kyuyaku Megami Tensei, Shin Megami Tensei, Shin Megami Tensei II, Shin Megami Tensei If..., Persona (US), Persona (import), Persona 2: Innocent Sin, Persona 2: Eternal Punishment (domestic and import), Persona 3 (domestic), Persona 4 (domestic) DemiKids Light, DemiKids Dark, the PS1 port of Devil Children Red Book and Black Book, Devil Summoner (for Saturn), Devil Summoner 2: Soul Hackers, Maken X (if it counts; first Dreamcast game I bought), Shin Megami Tensei: Nocturne (domestic), Digital Devil Saga 1-2 (domestic), the Persona World Guidance artbook, a Persona 1 drama CD (where the main is named Yuuya Narumi as opposed to his manga/canon name of Naoya Toumou), Devil Summoner: Raidou Kuzunoha vs. the Soulless Army, Revelations: Demon Slayer (aka Last Bible)

MegaTen is an insanely prolific series.  I never got to try the Majin Tensei SRPGs.  I heard Rhonde was absolute garbage and considered the worst MegaTen game ever.  I was disappointed by DemiKids especially since its prequels (Red and Black book) were actually very good despite it being kiddie MegaTen.  Demon Slayer was pretty dull, but I've heard the other Last Bible games were good.  

I used to be a mod on a really good MegaTen forum, so I was surrounded by experts.  I left when everyone there started acting like elitist douchebags.  

MegaTen is still my favorite RPG series, but I'm not a fanboy any more.  I will say that the heavy use of Hindu mythology in the game actually improved communication between me and my parents.  I was a self-hating Indian as a kid and seeing Hindu stuff in a cool format made me want to ask questions about Hindu mythology and philosophy.

9/11/1987 was a great day.  Namco released Megami Tensei for the NES, based on the novel Digital Devil Story.  They released Megami Tensei II.  But years later, Atlus bought the rights to the series in 1990 (I think), released Shin Megami Tensei on the Super Famicom and the rest is history.  I'm afraid to think what would happen to the series had Namco kept it and not sold it to Atlus.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Dizzy on March 11, 2009, 08:26:41 AM
Like Dincrest, my first exposure was Revelations: Persona.

I'm not gonna lie. Despite the localization, I still loved the game. :P I still do want to see the original version though, and it looks like the PSP version is going to answer my plea. Eternal Punishment was also very enjoyable, but I still need to finish it. After playing Persona 3 and 4 though, I'm going to have a VERY hard time going back to the archaic-ass battle system of the older games. And it's going to be very hard for me to cope with random battles again (FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK random battles).

I found in general, the Persona series holds my interest more than the other games do, simply because everything appeals to me more, in terms of character, setting, and styles of interaction. Doesn't mean I don't like the other games though.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: CDFN on March 11, 2009, 08:32:19 AM
Digital Devil Saga 2 is nowhere near as effective without the character development portrayed in DDS1. The storyline of DDS1 might seem somewhat small once the series segways into the second game, but really, you need to experience it. The exposition helps tremendously.

It's entirely mandatory in my opinion.

I second that. Definitely.

It's hard to describe exactly what makes nocturne so great. I guess you really feel you're part of that world and that you can make a huge difference in it. And what a fascinating world it is. I replayed it recently and enjoyed it even more than the first time. I really like the wole concept.
Code: [Select]
At the beginning you're having a normal day with your friends and end up being one of the few survivors of the end of the world. Seing how those characters developed, the vision they had for the new world, the methods they used to aquire the power to accomplish it, the way you could shape your relation with them through the course of the game, choose sides or restore the world back to normal. or being mocked by the god of that world and deemed unworthy or just becoming the friggin' lord of the underworld taking lucifer's place, the way the game puts all of that into your own hands, is what makes it so great.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Lard on March 11, 2009, 10:19:40 AM
My first exposure was Persona Eternal Punishment, which I really enjoyed. So I was really psyched for Nocturne when I heard it was coming out.

Since then, I have managed to get a MegaTen game every year they come out for Xmas, because I was overseas at the time they came out.

(Excluding P4 which I bought myself :D ) So MegaTen is a bit of an Xmas tradition for me.

Next to Suikoden, it's easily my favourite RPG series.

And I agree with Sketch about DDS1.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Seultoria on March 11, 2009, 10:29:04 AM
I jumped on the bandwagon with P3. Since then, I've touched Nocturne and DDS1, and a little P4, but haven't had time to finish any of them.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: MeshGearFox on March 11, 2009, 12:35:14 PM
Quote
Eternal Punishment was also very enjoyable, but I still need to finish it. After playing Persona 3 and 4 though, I'm going to have a VERY hard time going back to the archaic-ass battle system of the older games. And it's going to be very hard for me to cope with random battles again (FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK random battles).

Oh crap. You just reminded me that the US version of persona had the random encounter rate dropped quite a bit (somewhat lower than EPs, seemingly a LOT lower than IS'). and increased money you got after battles. Wonder if the PSP version'll go back to that :( Game was hard enough as is, and for the love of god more damn augustus trees or save anywhere.

Also, thirding it: Do not play DDS2 without DDS1. The story would make sense, but it wouldn't be very meaningful.

Nocturne's my favorite. I never actually beat it though. I got up to the last dungeon, and could beat it any time I wanted, but I guess, subconsciously, I just don't want it to end.

Though, I never DID do the Amala Network...
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Gen Eric Gui on March 11, 2009, 12:52:36 PM
Quote
Oh crap. You just reminded me that the US version of persona had the random encounter rate dropped quite a bit (somewhat lower than EPs, seemingly a LOT lower than IS'). and increased money you got after battles. Wonder if the PSP version'll go back to that :( Game was hard enough as is, and for the love of god more damn augustus trees or save anywhere.


Why do people keep expecting Atlus to change anything in their games anymore?  Atlus was -so- embarassed by the P1 changes they almost didn't take the PSP remake on because it would remind people of how incredibly inept their first attempt at it was.  They're not going to change the encounter rate, the amount of money you get, or the skin color of any of the characters.

However, Atlus Japan is adding more savepoints to the game, because given it's portable status, you kind of need to have save points.


Quote
I tend to only be annoyed by how some people seemed to just want more and more Persona. Then again I don't think I've been hearing clamoring for a P5, so I guess most people just wanted a single encore. Or are still playing P4, whichever.

Go to the Atlus Forums, the board is swarming with 14 year olds who can't spell (or read, apparently) asking Atlus USA to PLZ MAKE P5 ON PS2.  I mean, I try not to be too judgemental on them because I was like that at one point myself, but it is -seriously- grating to hear it constantly, especially when the same poeple keep spouting it after we tell them why it's not going to happen.



On topic: My first Megaten game was Persona: Revelations, and it's a wonder I didn't compeltely axe the series after that.  Game did nothing for me at the time.  I think the next game I picked up was Nocturne, although Devil Summoner may have come first.  It was years ago, so it's a rather foggy timeframe for me.  I know I had initially shown interest in DDS and Nocturne when they first came out, but for some reason I passed on them and I've been kicking myself for it ever since.  Luckily, I managed to track down near-mint copies of both for relatively low prices after several online friends expounded the virtues of the games to me, so it all worked out.

I've played all the US released Megatens(Although Last Bible only in passing, and I haven't finished P1, P2, or Demikids), and I don't think I could pick a favorite game, as I like all of them for one reason or another.  Demikids and P1 are probably at the bottom of the list though.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: MeshGearFox on March 11, 2009, 01:51:57 PM
Quote
Why do people keep expecting Atlus to change anything in their games anymore?

Because dropping the encounter rate was pretty inarguably a change for the better.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Gen Eric Gui on March 11, 2009, 02:46:15 PM
Maybe so, but what about Atlus USA's recent track record would lead you to suspect they would change anything?
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Eusis on March 11, 2009, 02:49:11 PM
It's possible the balance and encounter rate are being changed in the port itself, making changing for localization a non-issue. Though watching videos of the PS1 and PSP battles (http://www.siliconera.com/2009/03/11/persona-battles-then-and-now/) it doesn't look like battles themselves are sped up.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Losfer on March 11, 2009, 03:04:18 PM
You know, I've been playing Megaten games since Persona 2 and despite owning most of the titles that have been released since then...  I've never finished one.  In fact, most of them are just sitting around on shelves.  Just looking pretty.

I dunno, games rock, but I guess I just like the asthetics more.

GIANT.

DICKS.

Everywhere.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: MeshGearFox on March 11, 2009, 03:15:54 PM
Giant dicks in chariots, even.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Eusis on March 11, 2009, 05:07:08 PM
You know, I've been playing Megaten games since Persona 2 and despite owning most of the titles that have been released since then...  I've never finished one.  In fact, most of them are just sitting around on shelves.  Just looking pretty.

I was sort of the same way really until DDS1 came along. I got P1, P2, Demon Slayer, DemiKids, and Nocturne, yet I hadn't beat any of them. Nocturne was still fairly recent when DDS1 came out admittedly, but nevertheless when I got through DDS1&2 I started actually beating them. Of the PS2 games, only Devil Summoner and P4 haven't been beat, and both can be attributed more to being overshadowed by other games (or P4 just being that damn daunting).

Edit: Oh yeah! In regards to playing DDS2 without DDS1: Doable, but I highly advise against it. This isn't like skipping DQIV for DQV and only missing a few references, it's like skipping Fellowship of the Ring and heading straight to Two Towers. If anyone recommends just skipping DDS1 for any reason short of availability (not as valid now I believe), ignore them, they're out of their mind.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Blace on March 11, 2009, 05:29:25 PM
You know, I've been playing Megaten games since Persona 2 and despite owning most of the titles that have been released since then...  I've never finished one.  In fact, most of them are just sitting around on shelves.  Just looking pretty.

I dunno, games rock, but I guess I just like the asthetics more.

I have both Persona 3 and Persona 4 sitting on shelves not beaten as well. I spent 30 hours on P4 and 40 hours on P3, but I just lost interest. I really like the games, but I don't think I'll ever finish them.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: D-Rider on March 11, 2009, 05:42:42 PM
I get sick of seeing generic Japanese RPGs being shoveled out on a regular basis, which is why I hardly play the things anymore.  That's why I enjoy the SMT games so much; you can always count on them bringing fresh ideas to the table.  In fact, I'm playing Raidou vs. the Soulless Army right now so I can import its clear data to the sequel. :P
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Jet16 on March 11, 2009, 05:47:42 PM
I got into the series from Nocturne. After that, I tracked down all the other US releases excluding Last Bible and Demi-Kids and had a blast with all of them. I really love the series and I have yet to play an RPG that I enjoyed as much as Digital Devil Saga.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Akanbe- on March 11, 2009, 05:48:59 PM
You know, I've been playing Megaten games since Persona 2 and despite owning most of the titles that have been released since then...  I've never finished one.  In fact, most of them are just sitting around on shelves.  Just looking pretty.

I dunno, games rock, but I guess I just like the asthetics more.

I have both Persona 3 and Persona 4 sitting on shelves not beaten as well. I spent 30 hours on P4 and 40 hours on P3, but I just lost interest. I really like the games, but I don't think I'll ever finish them.

Yeah, I agree.  I finished both but the regular story (and no sidequests) are pretty easily the longest two games I've ever played.

Quote
h yeah! In regards to playing DDS2 without DDS1: Doable, but I highly advise against it. This isn't like skipping DQIV for DQV and only missing a few references, it's like skipping Fellowship of the Ring and heading straight to Two Towers. If anyone recommends just skipping DDS1 for any reason short of availability (not as valid now I believe), ignore them, they're out of their mind.

I agree.  DDS2 is a better game in regards to skill system, but missing out on the first one is stupid to me.  I'd never be able to go back and play the first one after beating the second one (which sadly I never beat the final boss).
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Dincrest on March 11, 2009, 06:11:17 PM
I get sick of seeing generic Japanese RPGs being shoveled out on a regular basis, which is why I hardly play the things anymore.  That's why I enjoy the SMT games so much; you can always count on them bringing fresh ideas to the table. 

And it never ceases to amaze me that MegaTen does that, especially since it's one of the most prolific JRPG series I can think of.  If I'm not mistaken there's more MegaTen than all of FF and DQ combined yet the former (MegaTen) remains fresh and sexy and the latter (FF and DQ) gets massive complaints for being "generic." 

Megami Tensei/Shin Megami Tensei, Majin Tensei, Devil Summoner, Persona, Devil Children/DemiKids, Digital Devil Saga, Last Bible, one-offs like Jack Bros. & Maken X... I'll tell ya, when I first learned about all the MegaTen that was out there beyond what I knew in Persona it made my head spin like Linda Blair in Exorcist.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Seultoria on March 11, 2009, 07:28:02 PM
You know, I've been playing Megaten games since Persona 2 and despite owning most of the titles that have been released since then...  I've never finished one.  In fact, most of them are just sitting around on shelves.  Just looking pretty.

I dunno, games rock, but I guess I just like the asthetics more.

GIANT.

DICKS.

Everywhere.

Does Mara have bufu skills? I think that'd be hilarious if you catch my drift.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Gen Eric Gui on March 11, 2009, 07:36:56 PM
No, he has Fire and is weak to Ice, generally.  Which is even funnier.

In P3:FES he had "Pierce" inheritance and skills along with the unique skill Maralagidyne, which is the best fire spell.  Oh, and Tetrakarn, because everyone should wear a rubber when thrusting everywhere.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Lord Scottish on March 11, 2009, 08:22:39 PM
My first MegaTen game was DemiKids. I actually like it.

Fell in love with P3 in '07, then fell out of love with it in '08. Tried to get into P2:EP, DDS, Nocturne, and LB but none of them held my interest.

So, um, I guess DemiKids is my favorite by default. *puts flame suit on*
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Fadedsun on March 11, 2009, 08:45:53 PM
My first Megami Tensei game(And I didn't even know it was a MT game) was Persona 2:EP. I borrowed it from a friend when I was in highschool, and played the first few hours of it before he wanted it back. He never actually played it, and ended up trading it in. I fell in love with it right away. Everything about it was amazing to me. The music, the presentation, the style, the grown up characters. It would be a while until I dug up the information on the game again and order it off ebay. After that I played the DDS series, then Devil Summoner:Raidou Kuzunoha, Persona 3, and Persona 4. And I'm currently working on the second SMT for the SNES. SMT is definitely my favorite RPG series of all time.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Ryos on March 11, 2009, 09:18:18 PM
I've mentioned before that the only game that rubbed me the wrong way with SMT was the original Persona (which was also the first game I played in the series).  Other than that I've enjoyed every other entry in the series, to the extent that it is by far my favorite ongoing series.  As far as why, that was already mentioned earlier in terms of SMT being unafraid to go for some topics other series don't want to touch.  Often an M rating for an RPG seems arbitrary to me, but not so with good old SMT.  I wish more series would take a chance and go for something a bit more dangerous than the status quo, but oh well.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Raze on March 11, 2009, 09:57:42 PM
 I've played nocturne, P3 and 4, some of DDS1 and devil summoner: Raidou vs the soulless army.

 Nocturne gets my top spot for being so unique.

Persona games get a close second. I haven't finished it, but I'm playing 4 now and put it above 3. Really, having direct control and not having to deal with the horrid AI is enough on it's own, but I also dig the scooby gang feel to it and the smaller scale of it. I'm not trying to save the world, just catch a killer and less is more in this case. Although I wouldn't be surprised if there's a tweest and I have to save the world at the very least that's not the majority of the game. My only complaint would be the whole party getting social links and getting combat bonus' and persona evolutions for raising them. It's a cop out to use them instead of adding more links and the gameplay perks for raising them makes them feel mandatory.

DDS1 is next. I liked it, but something or other distracted me and it got put on the backlog and stayed there. It's something I really should get back too.

Devil summoner is a distant last. Cool setting and style completely carried it. The actual game was pretty bad. Combat was clunky and I really felt like my cat was holding my hand through the whole thing. But it's one of those rare bad games I can say I liked anyway. Setting won't carry a second game for me though, I'll have to go read that review :P
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Aeolus on March 12, 2009, 02:35:00 AM
My first will be P3:FES when I get around to it. <.<
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Draak on March 12, 2009, 04:02:27 AM
If it wasn't for Persona 3 I probably wouldn't have heard/cared about SMT. P3 was so different from what I was used to play, dealed with so many themes not usually covered by other RPGs. I was impressed. Did a little search about the series and was surprised to see how many games there were! How come I've never heard of it before? Decided to try Nocturne and I wasn't dissapointed, it was great. I have yet to play DDS1/2, the Raidou Games and the non PS2 games, but eventually I will.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Eusis on March 12, 2009, 02:10:10 PM
If I'm not mistaken there's more MegaTen than all of FF and DQ combined yet the former (MegaTen) remains fresh and sexy and the latter (FF and DQ) gets massive complaints for being "generic." 

Your inclusion of DQ here has been bugging the hell out of me, as if it were unfairly targetted, but I think I'm starting to realize why: DQ's not what people are referring to when they're bitching about JRPGs. Most of the time the jokes are aimed at FF or what FF has produced (overlong cinematics, pretty boy heroes/villains), and personally I find the return to basics with DQ just as refreshing as playing something radically different like MegaTen. Besides, I've seen at least a few others who like DQ and are just as frustrated with modern JRPGs.

Oh, and I'm pretty sure there's more FF games at this point than MegaTen games, especially if you count ports/remakes.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: cj_iwakura on March 12, 2009, 02:16:54 PM
I started with Persona 'Revelations', and I've played(and loved) every US released game since, and a few of the imports(Soul Hackers, Innocent Sin).

I agree with Eusis, though about demikids, the japanese devil children games were substantially better than the two demikids we got in the states from what I remember. they had like, storylines and stuff.

I thought the DemiKids games had a good story. Nothing like Nocturne or DDS caliber, but better than I expected.

Quote
Nocturne's my favorite. I never actually beat it though. I got up to the last dungeon, and could beat it any time I wanted, but I guess, subconsciously, I just don't want it to end.

Though, I never DID do the Amala Network...

You need to do that right now, especially the Amala.

All the best story segments are in the Amala.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Dincrest on March 12, 2009, 02:27:44 PM
DemiKids wasn't bad, but Jin and Akira were very forgettable protagonists.  Setsuna and Mirai in Devil Children: Red and Black books were far more interesting.  Another aspect that irked me a bit was that demon conversations were often arbitrary and unpredictable. 

Not a bad set of RPGs, though, and I liked that each one was its own separate entity.  It wasn't like Pokemon Red and Blue which are essentially the same game. 

http://www.rpgfan.com/reviews/demikids/index.html
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Madoka on March 12, 2009, 04:28:31 PM
When I finally got a PS2, the Digital Devil Saga series was coming out. Like an idiot, I passed on it even though I remember picking up the DDS1 Limited Edition Box Set and looking at it.

I finally started the series with P3 and have since finished P3, DDS 1 & 2, and P4. I just started Devil Summoner 1 to get ready for DS2 in case there is Cleared Game bonuses. I have Nocturne, Persona: Revelations, and Persona 2 sitting on the shelf, waiting for their turn.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Gen Eric Gui on March 12, 2009, 09:47:28 PM
Quote
I just started Devil Summoner 1 to get ready for DS2 in case there is Cleared Game bonuses.

There are.  The demons in your DS3 compendium don't require demon conversation to join you.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Boomerang Flash Z on March 14, 2009, 08:12:28 PM
Shin Megami Tensei: Nocturne was my first introduction into the series.  I've been hooked ever since.  Though I have missed out on the Devil Summoner titles.  I just found the original series and the Persona franchise to be more appealing.  But I haven't played the Devil Summoner games, so I can't really say which is better.

I like confusing myself. :)
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Eusis on March 14, 2009, 08:13:52 PM
There's only one Devil Summoner game out now, and it's $10. It's worth looking into, but the sequel is supposed to be infinitely superior and that's out in about 2 months.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Boomerang Flash Z on March 14, 2009, 08:16:59 PM
There's only one Devil Summoner game out now, and it's $10. It's worth looking into, but the sequel is supposed to be infinitely superior and that's out in about 2 months.

Ah!  Thanks for the information.  I'll see what I can find out about it. :)
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Dincrest on March 14, 2009, 08:30:34 PM
Here's the deal with Devil Summoner.  There is a Shin Megami Tensei spoiler here, but I won't mask is since knowing it is relevant.

About halfway through Shin Megami Tensei on the Super Famicom, you try to stop US President Thorman from launching ICBMs and obliterating Tokyo.  You're unsuccessful and the second half of SMT takes place in post-apocalyptic Tokyo.  SMTII takes place in that future. 

Devil Summoner started out as a what if.  In the first Devil Summoner (I know it was released on the Sega Saturn), it's presumed you killed Thorman, stopped the ICBMs, and prevented the apocalypse.  Devil Summoner 2: Soul Hackers (Saturn, Playstation) is the sequel.  Where Shin Megami Tensei has you battling God, Devil Summoner had its main foe be Sid Davis and Soul Hackers' main villains were Sid Davis' Phantom Society.  I don't know much about the first Devil Summoner game ('cept that it was often cheap), but Soul Hackers was cool.  It was very cyberpunk. 

Devil Summoner: Raidou Kuzunoha vs. the Soulless Army is the start of a new arc that takes place in an alternate version of the 1930s Japan (Taisho era 20), so it too is a "what if" the Taisho era had continued past Taisho 15. King Abaddon is the next installment of the Raidou Kuzunoha arc.  (Kuzunoha is definitely a nod to Persona 2: Innocent Sin/Eternal Punishment since it prominently featured the Kuzunoha detective agency as rumor-spreading central.)  The Raidou Kuzunoha games are the only Devil Summoner games to be released in the US.  Atlus tried to localize the Playstation version Soul Hackers, but were denied by Sony (or so that's how the story goes.) 

Gameplay-wise, the Devil Summoner games added demon loyalty to the mix.  If you didn't do well by your demons, they'd be disloyal to you and either disobey you in battle, turn on you, etc.  In Devil Summoner (Saturn) demons were said to get disloyal pretty quickly.  Soul Hackers was much better about that. 
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Ramza on March 14, 2009, 09:08:23 PM
Soul Hackers would be sweet as a PSP port/remake with American localization.

And Persona 2 Innocent Sin as well.

If that happened, that would really make me an SMT fanboy.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Dincrest on March 14, 2009, 09:11:33 PM
I'll beg like a dog for Soul Hackers.  Innocent Sin would be fantastic too, but I played and beat that one, with some help from Oracle of Maiya's excellent script translation, so I'm a little less hellbent on getting a localized version.  I never got too far in Soul Hackers due to my lack of Japanese literacy so I'm more hellbent on that one getting a localization.

Here's the Oracle of Maiya Innocent Sin scrip translation: http://www.chthonian.net/persona/oracle/
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: MeshGearFox on March 15, 2009, 12:44:32 AM
Oracle of Maya is good. Better than certain other translations.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Fadedsun on March 15, 2009, 09:23:15 AM
I'll beg like a dog for Soul Hackers.  Innocent Sin would be fantastic too, but I played and beat that one, with some help from Oracle of Maiya's excellent script translation, so I'm a little less hellbent on getting a localized version.  I never got too far in Soul Hackers due to my lack of Japanese literacy so I'm more hellbent on that one getting a localization.

Here's the Oracle of Maiya Innocent Sin scrip translation: http://www.chthonian.net/persona/oracle/

They've patched a translation onto Innocent Sin since then. It would be silly to go through the game now looking back and forth at the script.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Raziel on March 15, 2009, 11:38:55 AM
I'll beg like a dog for Soul Hackers.  Innocent Sin would be fantastic too, but I played and beat that one, with some help from Oracle of Maiya's excellent script translation, so I'm a little less hellbent on getting a localized version.  I never got too far in Soul Hackers due to my lack of Japanese literacy so I'm more hellbent on that one getting a localization.

Here's the Oracle of Maiya Innocent Sin scrip translation: http://www.chthonian.net/persona/oracle/

They've patched a translation onto Innocent Sin since then. It would be silly to go through the game now looking back and forth at the script.

Orace of Maiya translation differs from the patched one. Can't comment on the details, but that's what I've heard.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Fadedsun on March 15, 2009, 12:02:19 PM
I'll beg like a dog for Soul Hackers.  Innocent Sin would be fantastic too, but I played and beat that one, with some help from Oracle of Maiya's excellent script translation, so I'm a little less hellbent on getting a localized version.  I never got too far in Soul Hackers due to my lack of Japanese literacy so I'm more hellbent on that one getting a localization.

Here's the Oracle of Maiya Innocent Sin scrip translation: http://www.chthonian.net/persona/oracle/

They've patched a translation onto Innocent Sin since then. It would be silly to go through the game now looking back and forth at the script.

Differs as in it's a more true to the original? The patched version is very well done. Though I can't compare it to the original, I haven't noticed any errors.

Orace of Maiya translation differs from the patched one. Can't comment on the details, but that's what I've heard.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Dincrest on March 15, 2009, 06:56:50 PM
Well, back when I played and beat Innocent Sin, Oracle of Maiya's script translation was all we had, and that didn't even surface till I was 2/3s through Innocent Sin.   
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: CDFN on March 23, 2009, 07:36:26 AM
I'm very, very tempted to buy a XBOX360 because of the new RE5 bundle. The price is VERY attractive considering everything that's in the package. But I want to know Atlus' next move regarding the SMT series. What if I buy a xbox and they release Persona 5 or SMT4 exclusively for the PS3? That would suck. A lot.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Gen Eric Gui on March 23, 2009, 09:28:23 AM
To be honest, I wouldn't be surprised if they stuck to handhelds exclusively.  SMT's biggest market is Japan, and consoles are dead in Japan.  The only things really worth developing in that market are DS and PSP games.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: CDFN on March 23, 2009, 10:10:18 AM
To be honest, I wouldn't be surprised if they stuck to handhelds exclusively.  SMT's biggest market is Japan, and consoles are dead in Japan.  The only things really worth developing in that market are DS and PSP games.

Good point. But considering the popularity of the persona series in the west, wouldn't a console game still be worth it?
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Lard on March 23, 2009, 12:05:43 PM
To be honest, I wouldn't be surprised if they stuck to handhelds exclusively.  SMT's biggest market is Japan, and consoles are dead in Japan.  The only things really worth developing in that market are DS and PSP games.

The Wii isn't dead. I wouldn't be surprised to see them jump from PS2 to Wii development.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: CDFN on March 23, 2009, 12:14:52 PM
To be honest, I wouldn't be surprised if they stuck to handhelds exclusively.  SMT's biggest market is Japan, and consoles are dead in Japan.  The only things really worth developing in that market are DS and PSP games.

The Wii isn't dead. I wouldn't be surprised to see them jump from PS2 to Wii development.

That would suck for me. I'm not even considering getting one of those.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Gen Eric Gui on March 23, 2009, 12:37:04 PM
To be honest, I wouldn't be surprised if they stuck to handhelds exclusively.  SMT's biggest market is Japan, and consoles are dead in Japan.  The only things really worth developing in that market are DS and PSP games.

The Wii isn't dead. I wouldn't be surprised to see them jump from PS2 to Wii development.

The -console- isn't, but game sales are abysmal.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: cj_iwakura on March 24, 2009, 02:28:44 AM
I have the Oracle of Maiya script and the fan-patched Innocent Sin, and as far as I can tell, the difference is as simple as translation vs localization. The former is fine for reading, but the latter is best for playing.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Lard on May 25, 2009, 12:27:16 AM
Ok, I need some help with Devil Summoner.

I got to Chapter 3 and suddenly I am getting raped by these fiends.

I'm level 22 and no matter where I go, these fiends are chasing me. I can't find any place to do "regular" random encounters and/or get some new demons.

These fiends are wiping me out within the first 30 seconds of the fight.

Am I supposed to negotiate or am I completely screwed and going to have to restart my game like I suspect?
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Blace on May 25, 2009, 02:33:56 AM
To be honest, I wouldn't be surprised if they stuck to handhelds exclusively.  SMT's biggest market is Japan, and consoles are dead in Japan.  The only things really worth developing in that market are DS and PSP games.

The Wii isn't dead. I wouldn't be surprised to see them jump from PS2 to Wii development.

The -console- isn't, but game sales are abysmal.

I haven't bought a game for my Wii in well over a year now (last purchase = Brawl) and there really isn't any games I'm looking forward to other than No More Heroes 2 (unless E3 surprises me). This is easily my least favorite Nintendo generation so far. So I can definitely see why game sales would be abysmal.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Gen Eric Gui on May 25, 2009, 03:13:42 AM
There are plenty of good games on the Wii, like Punch Out!  It's just that A: The largest % of the people who own Wiis are the types of people who don't understand that there are games for the system other than Wii Sports and Wii Fit and B: most of the "hardkorez yo" gamers spit all over the Wii as a "kiddie" system and so don't pay attention long enough to see that there are good games which leads to no sales which in turn leads to no developers wants to make games for the system and so on and so on and so forth.

I've bought quite a few games for my Wii in the past few months (Klonoa, Punch Out!, Rune Factory, Samurai Shodown Anthology, Kororinpa 2) so there's no shortage of decent-to-good games on the system, it's just that nobody knows they're out there/aren't interested in them because there's no blood and violence.


@Lard: You should be able to negotiate with them.  IIRC they'll want you to sacrifice a demon to make them go away.  Also, try to jack up your luck.  They're appearing often because your luck is in the shitter, if you have higher luck then they don't show.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: CDFN on May 25, 2009, 07:12:21 AM
Ok, I need some help with Devil Summoner.

I got to Chapter 3 and suddenly I am getting raped by these fiends.

I'm level 22 and no matter where I go, these fiends are chasing me. I can't find any place to do "regular" random encounters and/or get some new demons.

These fiends are wiping me out within the first 30 seconds of the fight.

Am I supposed to negotiate or am I completely screwed and going to have to restart my game like I suspect?

A lot of people are complaining about that. Apparently how often you encounter them depends on your luck. I think you can get away by sacrificing one of your demons, I haven't encountered a fiend yet but check gamefaqs or the atlus forum, there has been a lot of talk about that.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Lard on May 25, 2009, 06:30:42 PM
Yep I am pretty much fucked. Looks like I have hit a brick wall and am going to have to start the game over and super level up before Chapter 3.

That's a really cunty thing for a game to do.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Dincrest on May 25, 2009, 08:50:01 PM
Among the MegaTen sub-series, Devil Summoner can be the douchiest sometimes.  In the original Devil Summoner for Saturn, if you didn't bend over backwards to keep your demons loyal, they'd royally screw you over.  That game was pretty evil in how much you needed to butt-rub your demons sometimes.  Sometimes felt like I was babysitting a bunch of high-maintenance teenage drama queens.

It's interesting how luck is a "mostly harmless" (or mostly useless if you read it that way) stat in many JRPGs, but it actually means something in most MegaTen games.  In the early ones where you did full-on demon negotiations, a high luck stat did influence negotiation success, but evevn the highest luck couldn't counteract a full moon.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Lard on May 25, 2009, 09:09:05 PM
If I use a Luck Locust, will that raise my luck up and keep the fiends away? Also, where can I get more cages?
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Gen Eric Gui on May 25, 2009, 10:05:50 PM
1: It should
2: I have no idea

There shouldn't be any reason to start over.  I'm not sure it's possible to get so badly fucked that you would need to.

Remember, you're not SUPPOSED to be able to beat the Fiends, you have to chase them away.  So any bright ideas about leveling up can just go right into the trash can, there's no way you'd ever get high enough in level by Chapter 3 to beat them unless you had years of time and patience.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Lard on May 25, 2009, 11:24:46 PM

There shouldn't be any reason to start over.  I'm not sure it's possible to get so badly fucked that you would need to

There are two different side quests I'm trying to do - both of which involve facing 100 demons. I get to a certain point and Nekomatas start coming out and invariably charm my demons.

Since I'm only allowed to carry 9 Anti-minds at a time, I invariably run out, and am killed by my own demons.

I sold the three badges I got for my saved Devil Summoner 1 game, and then promptly lost half my money in Tento Forest because I walked into a dark area and kept falling over.

Every time I've tried to negotiate with a fiend, it's failed and I've ended up dying.

Every time I've tried to fight a fiend, it's failed and I've ended up dying.

There's nowhere for me to go to level up.

There's nowhere for me to go to get new demons.

Suggestions?
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: MeshGearFox on May 25, 2009, 11:56:17 PM
Quote
Sometimes felt like I was babysitting a bunch of high-maintenance teenage drama queens.

Didn't you used to moderate the forums?

Anyway, I'm not up to the fiends yet (I WOULD have been but I've been out of town for like three days), but I will say that being a Megaten game, leveling is probably not useful.

The only SMT-related game I powerleveled in was Persona 1, because I didn't grasp the ideas of "elemental weakness matter!" and "you should really fuse new personas dawg." I mean I literaly only fused new personas for most of the characters before Deva Yuga. I'm not sure how I did that.

btw gen is your copy of DS2 running better now at all?

Quote
then promptly lost half my money in Tento Forest because I walked into a dark area and kept falling over.

Have a demon cast "light up." Another guy later on tells you this in the forest.

If you lost a huge amount of money, just reload. There's a dragon's den right before the dark area, so...

No idea about the fiends, though.

As for the nekomata, just get something that's strong against mind/nerve. Or press R2 to make your demons invisible/call them to you and run like hell when Marin Kirin is being cast.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Lard on May 26, 2009, 12:18:22 AM
I'm way past it. I should have reloaded, but you can't really reload in that part without having to go through the whole forest again.

I do keep forgetting about making them invisible, I'll try that, thanks.

It sort of worked.....for a while.

I was fighting Nekomatas and...something else.

One was weak to lightning and the other was weak to Zan.

So I'd weaken one and kill it and the other kind would appear.

I would try and make my guys invisible against Nekos charms, and 2 seconds later, the other demon casts Pulinpa and confuses them so I *STILL* have to fucking use my fucking Anti-minds.

This is just about the cuntiest game I have ever played.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: MeshGearFox on May 26, 2009, 01:06:43 PM
Can't you do the sidequest later? also how much HP do the nekomats have?
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Lard on May 26, 2009, 01:26:00 PM
Don't know about HP, I actually managed to progress last night though.

I finished
Code: [Select]
the Summoner temple in Chapter 3 and did some sidequests as well. The
Code: [Select]
100 demon fight sidequest is a pain in the ass.

I got stuck on Centipede Road and gave up cause I was tired.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: MeshGearFox on May 26, 2009, 04:55:29 PM
I'm about at that point right now. I'll report when I finish this stuff.

I really appreciate how DS2 shows you loads of stuff before you can do anything with it. Law of Miyamoto and all. Much appreciated.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: cj_iwakura on May 26, 2009, 06:06:34 PM
I've beaten every Fiend I've run into so far.

Take a Lilim to drain the Mudo skills, then just wail on it like crazy.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: AJR on May 26, 2009, 07:57:13 PM
I’m thinking of importing a US copy of Devil Summoner in the near future. I think it’s about time I started getting some of the PS2 games that never came out here. I haven’t been interested in Shin Megami Tensei game in a while, but this one sounds pretty cool.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: MeshGearFox on May 27, 2009, 12:43:00 AM
Hey I need help on that Curse House mission. No outright telling me what to do please but could I get a few hints? I can't do anythig with the Violent Chicken, and Dark Mannen-Cho doesn't seem to have anything relevant.

Also what is the other quest where you fight 100 demons? I got some things that head a couple ways of... Obariyons and Makamis but nothing near 100 demons (and when I figured out the weaknesses on the Obariyons and casted like, "sword gets elemental property XYZ" on my spear it was just this possitive feedback loop of everything exploding into a beautiful mass of green).

also how the hell DO you use Recarm, life balls, and other revivers?

Anyway, I kind of feel like playing Devil children black, now. Time to go relearn the kana enough so that I can figure out spell names and the like.

(Also, a wonderful quote from the IGN comment box.

"I love me JRPG but none of us should be required to read countless pages of text anymore."

Now can you PLEASE stop asking me why I think that gamers as a whole are pretty illiterate?)

---edit---

Nevermind. Did the Cursed House thing and the 100 Demon Fight. In the latter, during the Nekomata/Wormpeople waves, I just had Makami and... Alp (null mind/death) spam maragi and mazio. Mazio healed the wormpeople, and hit them fairly frequently, but maragi stunned them too, so the free MAG and crit damage offset it completely.

I hope there are more fights like that. That was simply awesome.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: CDFN on May 27, 2009, 05:53:13 AM
This game looks ancient though. When it zooms in the backgrounds become a mess. But it's strangely addicting in that SMT kind of way. I'm still in chapter 2 though.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: CDFN on June 01, 2009, 11:03:02 AM
OK, so I encountered the pale rider at the start of chapter 3. The first time I negotiated. He basically killed 3 of my demons. That can easily be fixed by using recarm after the fight. But shortly after that he appeared again and kept asking for valuable items. I was at level 24 and decided to fight him. It took me over 20 minutes and I had to use most of my items but I managed to defeat the bastard. I have feeling that the next boss fights are going to seem pretty damn easy in comparison.
BTW, he's weak against ice. Also, whenever it says that he's preparing for something guard and hide your demons because if he hits you with victory fire it's game over unless you're a lot stronger than I was.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Tridius on June 02, 2009, 01:43:26 PM
Hmm well for my first Megami Tensei game was Revelations persona for the PS1 I really liked how you had to really work hard to get the much more powerful persona's as well as getting equipment that is often unavaliable in shops. Though it get's pretty ridiculous once you start seeing requirements for some of the very powerful ones at Lv 70. which require a certain item as well as a specific spellcard. Inculding one item which requires sucessive contact from every demon in the game. It's quite tedious though but it's worth it in the long run.

But there is one game i would like to play that's part of the series called Majin Tensei.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: MeshGearFox on June 02, 2009, 09:40:47 PM
Is it Pale or White rider you encounter first? One is weak to bufu, and the other apparently summons paralysis zombies.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: CDFN on June 03, 2009, 04:41:21 AM
Is it Pale or White rider you encounter first? One is weak to bufu, and the other apparently summons paralysis zombies.

Not sure if it was pale or white... Now I'm getting red rider...
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Lard on June 23, 2009, 11:48:08 PM
Anyone picked up Devil Survivor?

I called around today, but no one had it yet :/
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Eusis on June 23, 2009, 11:52:59 PM
Anyone picked up Devil Survivor?

Today's the ship date, not the release date. Just expect games to be out on Wednesday unless it's a HUGE title or a weird day like Sunday. Or stupid lucky as the case was with Dragon Quest V.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Lard on June 23, 2009, 11:56:25 PM
I noticed both RPGaymer and Gamespot both complained about lack of voice acting.

In a DS game.

sigh
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Ramza on June 24, 2009, 12:04:19 AM
I noticed both RPGaymer and Gamespot both complained about lack of voice acting.

In a DS game.

sigh

There are a few DS games with VA out there (FFIV being a prominent example). But I'm still with you here. VA ought not be mandatory.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Eusis on June 24, 2009, 12:23:21 AM
I understand if a game just doesn't make sense to go silent, but I don't think that's very frequent and usually the worst examples (the FMVs in the PSP ports of FFT and Persona) are dealt with in localization. I find it disheartening though that even when the format isn't one suited to large amounts of voice acting that some critics will still bring it up, especially after how I heard Tierkreis's dub went.

With that said, neither of them were all that upset by it it seems, certainly not enough to actually mark it as a notable con.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Sketch on June 24, 2009, 11:14:23 AM
I'll be picking up my retail copy sometime later today.

I probably won't be opening it any time soon, since I just beat it and all, but it'll be nice to have. Loved this game. =)
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Alisha on June 24, 2009, 02:01:33 PM
my first SMT game was persona 3,unless you want to count maken X on DC. my favorite thing about the 2 persona games i've played(3,and4) is that the characters are not perfect they have substantial flaws wich makes them much easier to relate to. for me to like the SMT series enough to play more games the persona's need an improved visual look i think. by the way what does shin megami tensei translate to in english?
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Gen Eric Gui on June 24, 2009, 02:16:16 PM
It's something along the lines of "Tale of the (Fallen) Goddess", IIRC.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Seultoria on June 24, 2009, 02:19:22 PM
Depending on the kanji, "shin" = true, so "True ...[what Gen Eric said]"
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Lard on June 24, 2009, 03:11:22 PM
I thought Shin = new.

As in Atlus renamed the Megami Tensei series "Shin Megami Tensei/New Megami Tensei" when they took over the series from Namco. (It was Namco, wasn't it?)
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Seultoria on June 24, 2009, 03:20:48 PM
It means both of them. It depends on the kanji used in context.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Eusis on June 24, 2009, 03:32:57 PM
I'm pretty sure it's "True Goddess Rebirth" or something like that. Megami Tensei was the name of the original game which literally had a reborn goddess as one of the main characters.

Edit: Ok, I checked Hardcore Gaming 101 quickly, I'll quote them.

Quote
"Megami Tensei" translates to "Reincarnation of the Goddess" - this is because the female protagonist in the original story was the reincarnation of the Japanese creation deity Izanami. The title is open to interpretation in all subsequent games, but almost all of them contain females in strong roles. When the series came in the 16-era, it was named "Shin Megami Tensei", which has stuck ever since. Literally this means "Reincarnation of the True Goddess" - however, the Japanese often use "shin" (a symbol which means "true") to show an evolution of some kind. (Other examples of this includes "Shin Sangoku Musou", known as Dynasty Warriors 2; Shin Contra, known as Contra Shattered Soldier; and Shin Samurai Spirits, or Samurai Shodown 2.) It's roughly equivalent to the English word "super", which was stuck in front of practically every Super Nintendo sequel back in the day.

So there you go.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Alisha on June 24, 2009, 03:46:22 PM
out of curiousity did persona 2 have a female last boss? p4 does and p3 sorta does,but i dont recall what nyx looked like and i never finished the answer.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Dincrest on June 24, 2009, 04:06:38 PM
No, both Persona 2 games had decidedly male final bosses. 

In Innocent Sin
Code: [Select]
one boss is Hitler, and the final boss is Great Father- which is an amalgam of all the protagonists' fathers wearing bondage gear.  Yes, it's that disturbing.
In Eternal Punishment
Code: [Select]
it's Nyarlathotep, or Crawling Chaos, who is the opposite of Philemon and a male Lovecraftian product. 
And depnding on how you answered Mae's questions in Persona 1, the final boss is either
Code: [Select]
Guido Sardenia/Takahisa Kandori who's a twisted male corporate head or it's
Code: [Select]
Pandora, who is the deep turmoil in Mary/Maki's soul.
And Lard, you're right.  Namco did the first two Megami Tensei games for Famicom then Atlus bought the rights and Shin Megami Tensei on Super Famicom was their first one.  And the rest is history. 
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Gen Eric Gui on June 24, 2009, 05:11:12 PM
P3's last boss is male, FYI.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Dincrest on June 24, 2009, 06:43:34 PM
Nyx is a Greek goddess.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nyx
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Draak on June 24, 2009, 07:29:10 PM
I noticed both RPGaymer and Gamespot both complained about lack of voice acting.

In a DS game.

sigh

There are a few DS games with VA out there (FFIV being a prominent example). But I'm still with you here. VA ought not be mandatory.

DS games could also be like TWEWY in which only a few lines and expressions were voiced. However, I'll agree that VA in games, in special DS games, should be an optional "feature".
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Eusis on June 24, 2009, 07:37:57 PM
Critics sometimes bring up weird things to criticize anyway, I remember the IGN review for Riviera pointing out a lack of online functionality or item trading. I wonder whether they're personal quirks or some editorial decree that they must look for this, that, and those in the process of reviewing, even if they're not particularly relevant to a game. Some sites even bother to make Multiplayer a category that must be scored and included in the average that makes up the final score.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Gen Eric Gui on June 24, 2009, 08:21:30 PM
Nyx is a Greek goddess.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nyx

But you don't fight Nyx, you fight Nyx Avatar, which is actually

Code: [Select]
Ryoji.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Losfer on June 24, 2009, 08:30:18 PM
Anyway, I wish more games had voice overs like Skies of Arcadia.  Not even lines dubbed, just YEEEAAAHHS and LAMDA BURRRRSSSSSSTS.

Well, not even the attack names.  Just some expressive gasps and hurrays over the lines.

Man, I wish LESS games had VAs.  You don't always need to have them.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: kyuusei on June 25, 2009, 02:29:51 AM
My first exposure was, not going to lie, Persona 3. I HAVE Persona 4, and I'm close to finally getting to play it.

I wanted Persona 2 for a million years though and never got around to acquiring it. I thought I had a burned copy but I can't find it, so I may go back to searching for a copy, as if I could ever afford it.

I never really know what MegaTen games to try. Nocturne yes, but it's also hard to find and expensive, though not as much. And I've been told to try DDS1 too.. other than that, I really have no idea.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Eusis on June 25, 2009, 02:38:03 AM
Between Nocturne and Digital Devil Saga I vastly prefer Nocturne, DDS may be able to ease you into it but Persona 3 was probably enough, and I admit I may be a little more opinionated on DDS/Nocturne since some people seem to disregard Nocturne as being the same game but without as much story (which is itself a bogus claim; it has fewer cutscenes and you could argue that the characterization isn't as predominate, but less =/= inferior). Really though, Nocturne just felt like a more robust, complete game while the DDS series was more like a set of expansion packs, and kind of feels weird compared to how Devil Summoner and Persona 3/4 were much bigger departures from Nocturne.

Though, uhh, Digital Devil Saga is pretty great and worth playing, just be sure to play them in order to fully appreciate them.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: jello44 on June 25, 2009, 03:18:09 AM
My first exposure was, not going to lie, Persona 3. I HAVE Persona 4, and I'm close to finally getting to play it.

I wanted Persona 2 for a million years though and never got around to acquiring it. I thought I had a burned copy but I can't find it, so I may go back to searching for a copy, as if I could ever afford it.

I never really know what MegaTen games to try. Nocturne yes, but it's also hard to find and expensive, though not as much. And I've been told to try DDS1 too.. other than that, I really have no idea.

I haven't played any of them either, so don't feel too bad. I was out of the loop for a while with most games anyway, due to a certain MMO... *cough* anyway.. I'll eventually pick up P3/4 sometime...

Speaking of which, I see this SMT : Devil Survivor game for the DS; and it looks really good. I'm in the mood for a good Strat-RPG, which looks like it is; but leads me to one question. This is a different world from all the other games, and I don't have to play them in order to understand the story in DS, right?
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Eusis on June 25, 2009, 03:24:27 AM
This is a different world from all the other games, and I don't have to play them in order to understand the story in DS, right?

Correct. As a general rule of the thumb each of the sub series is in its own universe, and even the sequels may not gain anything meaningful from playing the prequel. In fact, most installments are fairly stand alone outside of Digital Devil Saga and to a lesser degree Persona 2.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Gen Eric Gui on June 25, 2009, 08:33:49 AM
All you really miss out on are passing references to older characters and events.  Like, at the final dungeon in Raidou Kuzunoha Vs. The Soulless Army, there are some NPC's who spout lines that will mean nothing to you if you didn't play the original couple Megaten games, but even if you know what they're saying it's nothing more than an amusing side benefit.  Same thing with Persona 3, the news show on the TV in the dorm often has "Exclusive interviews" with characters from older games, most notably important characters from the previous 3 Personas.

And to be totally honest, you don't even need to really play the first parts of Persona 2 or DDS to understand the second halves, as they re-tread all the pertinent info you need to have.  It just tends to make things have a bigger impact since you know ALL the details of what happened, as opposed to the "just the facts, m'aam" version you get from the sequel.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Lard on June 25, 2009, 08:48:11 AM
This is a different world from all the other games, and I don't have to play them in order to understand the story in DS, right?

Correct. As a general rule of the thumb each of the sub series is in its own universe, and even the sequels may not gain anything meaningful from playing the prequel. In fact, most installments are fairly stand alone outside of Digital Devil Saga and to a lesser degree Persona 2.

Well Persona 2 has the Kuzunoha Detective Agency, so you could argue that Devil Summoner and Persona take place in the same world, though I think that was more of an Easter Egg for fans than anything important.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: MeshGearFox on June 25, 2009, 05:46:13 PM
from what I'VE scene P2: EP is more of a direct sequel to P1 than P2: IS which is also one of the reasons I think EP got a stateside release over IS. Both P2s rub me wrong so whatever.

Quote
Well Persona 2 has the Kuzunoha Detective Agency, so you could argue that Devil Summoner and Persona take place in the same world, though I think that was more of an Easter Egg for fans than anything important.

I THINK it's the same world since the reference is pretty pervasive in uh IS I think. It's just some really obfuscated way. SMT If... is also in there. I never played the first two devil summoner games or SMT If so I couldn't get the details without horribly butchering the hell out of them though.

Also the character design for Raidou Kuzunoha was invented sometime in the late 90s, which is odd.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Gen Eric Gui on June 25, 2009, 07:34:50 PM
The names are coincidental.  I can't remember all the details, but the final dungeon of Soulless Army points out that the Devil Summoner games are in the same timeline as the original 2 Megaten games, and Persona 1 is NOT in that timeline.  And since all 5 Persona games are decidedly in the same timeline, they're not the same Kuzunoha family.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: MeshGearFox on June 25, 2009, 08:54:39 PM
Quote
And since all 5 Persona games are decidedly in the same timeline, they're not the same Kuzunoha family.

Wait, P3/4 are in the same timeline as P1/2/2? I thought it was established otherwise with the MMO SLink.

Also doesn't the Kuzunoha from the first Devil Summoner posess Tammy or something?
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Eusis on June 25, 2009, 09:24:33 PM
Wait, P3/4 are in the same timeline as P1/2/2? I thought it was established otherwise with the MMO SLink.

That was actually a creative liberty they took because the Japanese version was referencing the original Megami Tensei, and they wanted to use something actually familiar to the audience.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: MeshGearFox on June 25, 2009, 09:38:36 PM
So uh... Eusis can you explain this further how thet timelines work out and all :(

(Also wasn't the MMO called innocent sin online, too?)
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Dincrest on June 25, 2009, 09:48:56 PM
I think on page 3 or 4 I explained the Devil Summoner thing.  Devil Summoner and Soul Hackers are a what if, if a certain event didn't happen in SMT.  Raidou Kuzunoha's a whole new arc.  Pretty nice referential nod to the Kuzunoha Detective Agency in IS and EP.

With Persona, the female avatar in Shin Megami Tensei If... makes a cameo as Tamaki (Tammy) in Persona 1, 2:IS, and 2:EP.  Plus, students from the school in If... hang out in Sumaru (you can tell by their stripey pants uniforms.  Seventh students had black ones and Kasugayama students had light blue.)  Innocent Sin and Eternal Punishment take place a fair ways after 1.  In 1, the kids are in high school and in 2, they're older with careers (i.e. Mary/Maki being the assistant psychotherapise, Brown/Brad being the talk show host, etc.)  From what I understand, that whole arc ended with Eternal Punishment. 

I think Persona 3 begins a whole new arc that isn't directly connected, nor does it need to be.  The way the kids receive their personas in 3 and 4 is different from the predecessors.  No Philemon, no playing "Persona Persona" as kids.  And it does reference other MegaTen games for fun, like the Cielo Mist soda, the Innocent Sin MMO, and the dorm advisor guy wearing the same kind of suit as Baofu.  The MMO was like finding the children's storybook "Tales of Phantasia" in Tales of Destiny.  P4 obviously takes place a few years after P3. 

Some MegaTen games are quite self-referential.  Every character you face in the DemiKids battle arenas is based on old Persona characters. 
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: MeshGearFox on June 25, 2009, 10:12:53 PM
Speaking of demikids, I should give dark version another shot. It seems better than light. more interesting fusion system and actual difficulty. although the story is still retarded and dark/light are STILL pretty much the dregs of that side-series (which is sort of annoying since Fire/Ice is supposed to be quite good and a return to the cheeky subversiveness of like, Black/Red/White, which I'm sure really isn't considered that subversive in Japan because it's Japan. Go Japan!).

I also wish Devil Survivor was coming with a soundtrack :(
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Dizzy on June 25, 2009, 11:05:17 PM
I think there was another reference to P1 in Mitsuru's S.Link, about the Nanjo company.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Dincrest on June 26, 2009, 08:50:03 AM
I think there was another reference to P1 in Mitsuru's S.Link, about the Nanjo company.

Not even in the S-link.  Prior to the beach scene, there's talk about working with the Nanjo company.  Of course, there's no telling whether they dealt directly with Kei/Nate, or with one of his descendents.  Or if it's just an arbitrary Nanjo company named as a cute little self-reference.  I think it's the latter.  Of course, I never did Mitsuru's S-link since my academics wasn't maxed out and she kinda frightened me.

Mesh- I actually preferred Light's fusion system over Dark's.  Details are in a review i r rited 4 erpig fan. 
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Gen Eric Gui on June 26, 2009, 10:10:35 AM
Nate is interviewed on the TV News you can watch in the dorm.  Not by name, but the description can only be him.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: MeshGearFox on June 26, 2009, 06:47:41 PM
Wow. Popmatters reviewed Raidou 2.

http://www.popmatters.com/pm/review/102216-shin-megami-tensei-devil-summoner-2/

This is fucking retarded. By popmatter's standards, even, which are *goddamn low* (See: Most videogame reviews they do). They don't discuss the gameplay except in the barest sense and spend the entire review misconstruing the demon negoation system for two whole pages, give it a 5 out of 10, and their only complaint is that it's too sprawling compared to Persona 3.

The hell?

This is like, even worse than Tidwell and his inability to grasp multi-clausal sentences.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: kyuusei on June 27, 2009, 02:29:39 AM
  I think it's the latter.  Of course, I never did Mitsuru's S-link since my academics wasn't maxed out and she kinda frightened me.
Heh, Mitsuru was my favorite of the female social links.

I've been thinking of trying Devil Survivor but I just started Persona 4 and uh, considering I put 160 hours into P3 (..I don't know HOW), I might be occupied for a while already.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Lard on June 27, 2009, 11:13:16 AM
Wow. Popmatters reviewed Raidou 2.

http://www.popmatters.com/pm/review/102216-shin-megami-tensei-devil-summoner-2/

This is fucking retarded. By popmatter's standards, even, which are *goddamn low* (See: Most videogame reviews they do). They don't discuss the gameplay except in the barest sense and spend the entire review misconstruing the demon negoation system for two whole pages, give it a 5 out of 10, and their only complaint is that it's too sprawling compared to Persona 3.

The hell?

This is like, even worse than Tidwell and his inability to grasp multi-clausal sentences.

Terrible review.

But considering they haven't even got the right cover for their Nocturne review link (it's the cover to Digital Devil Saga), I guess that they're not worth taking very seriously.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Alisha on June 27, 2009, 11:41:18 AM
Nyx is a Greek goddess.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nyx

But you don't fight Nyx, you fight Nyx Avatar, which is actually

Code: [Select]
Ryoji.


i'm pretty sure the Nyx is fight is a fusion of the guy mentioned in your spoiler and Nyx.


since we are on this subject has anyone seen the persona anime? all i know about it is that the intro song sucks and that akihiko is in it.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Raziel on June 27, 2009, 12:20:34 PM
Nyx is a Greek goddess.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nyx

But you don't fight Nyx, you fight Nyx Avatar, which is actually

Code: [Select]
Ryoji.


i'm pretty sure the Nyx is fight is a fusion of the guy mentioned in your spoiler and Nyx.


since we are on this subject has anyone seen the persona anime? all i know about it is that the intro song sucks and that akihiko is in it.

I watched it. Doesn't really have much to do with Persona 3 or any of the games, but it's decent, depends on your tastes. It has a lot of "deep for the sake of being deep" moments, and the story is a cluttered mess, but I liked how it was always quite serious and kept the darker and somber atmosphere till the end. Interesting cast as well.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: professor ganson on June 27, 2009, 12:56:04 PM
I expected more discussion here about the new DS title.  I'm thinking about picking it up soon.  How do people like the battles so far?
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Gen Eric Gui on June 27, 2009, 02:12:56 PM
Nyx is a Greek goddess.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nyx

But you don't fight Nyx, you fight Nyx Avatar, which is actually

Code: [Select]
Ryoji.


i'm pretty sure the Nyx is fight is a fusion of the guy mentioned in your spoiler and Nyx.

Only kinda sorta.

Code: [Select]
Nyx's physical embodiment was the 13th shadow, which Aigis sealed inside Minato's body 10 years previous.  Ryoji is that shadow form mixed with Minato's human composition, making him a kind of shadow/human halfbreed.  Nyx Avatar is Ryoji's human form mixed with the 13th shadow's, having been taken over by Nyx's will.  So technically, you are fighting both beings at the same time, but the physical thing standing there fighting you is Ryoji.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Lard on June 27, 2009, 03:45:05 PM
I expected more discussion here about the new DS title.  I'm thinking about picking it up soon.  How do people like the battles so far?

I would be discussing it if I could actually get the fucking game.

Nowhere in Canada is getting it before Monday.

It would be nice if Atlus could be bothered to clarify international release dates.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Gen Eric Gui on June 27, 2009, 05:13:09 PM
I expected more discussion here about the new DS title.  I'm thinking about picking it up soon.  How do people like the battles so far?

I would be discussing it if I could actually get the fucking game.

Nowhere in Canada is getting it before Monday.

It would be nice if Atlus could be bothered to clarify international release dates.


Over at the Atlus official forum, they're saying every single copy has been shipped as of a week ago.  It's some kind of problem with Canadian customs.

As for Devil Survivor, I'm too busy playing it to talk about it at any length.  The game is amazing though, that's for damn sure.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Lard on June 27, 2009, 07:25:13 PM
Sounds to me like they're passing the buck.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Gen Eric Gui on June 27, 2009, 08:47:23 PM
Well, I mean, you can't really blame them when they shipped all the games out at the same time, and that time was "the earliest time possible".
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Losfer on June 27, 2009, 09:29:16 PM
I expected more discussion here about the new DS title.  I'm thinking about picking it up soon.  How do people like the battles so far?

I would be discussing it if I could actually get the fucking game.

Nowhere in Canada is getting it before Monday.

It would be nice if Atlus could be bothered to clarify international release dates.


Lard, man, I got my local Wal-Mart's ONE copy.  Any that arrived at the local EB's...  Are up in the air, cause they're all torn down here atm to switch branding to Gamestop.

It's kinda scary.  Glad I got this when I did.  This looks like it's gonna be really hard to find just a few months from now.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: MeshGearFox on June 27, 2009, 11:59:24 PM
Quote


But considering they haven't even got the right cover for their Nocturne review link (it's the cover to Digital Devil Saga), I guess that they're not worth taking very seriously.

It's a review for DDS too. and they complain about SMT:N trying too hard to be experimental, while also being too conventional or something. What's more concerning is that the DS2 review has the DS1 cover pictured.

Their Rogue Galaxy review is also retarded. I mean, they bashed the game, which I don't really take issue with because I can't say I liked RG much, but their reasons were sort of dumb.

Anyway, played Devil Survivor quite a bit today. Doing battles outside of the story battles to get more exp and stuff isn't a problem because the battles are fun! wish it had a skirmish mode or something. and loving the demon designs. still think people art looks like bleach tho
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Gen Eric Gui on June 28, 2009, 12:46:29 AM
whee i love boss battles where you only have one character who can hurt them and they can randomly summon allies to fully heal them yay
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: kyuusei on June 28, 2009, 01:59:22 AM
I expected more discussion here about the new DS title.  I'm thinking about picking it up soon.  How do people like the battles so far?

I would be discussing it if I could actually get the fucking game.

Nowhere in Canada is getting it before Monday.

It would be nice if Atlus could be bothered to clarify international release dates.


Lard, man, I got my local Wal-Mart's ONE copy.  Any that arrived at the local EB's...  Are up in the air, cause they're all torn down here atm to switch branding to Gamestop.

It's kinda scary.  Glad I got this when I did.  This looks like it's gonna be really hard to find just a few months from now.

I better get this shit fast then. :P

I'm too broke to pursue so many MegaTen games at once. What the hell is wrong with me.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Sketch on June 28, 2009, 04:34:03 AM
whee i love boss battles where you only have one character who can hurt them and they can randomly summon allies to fully heal them yay

Holy smokes, I totally forgot about that battle. Such a pain in the ass.

Expect to see a lot of the whole enemies-healing-bosses-and-other enemies thing; Devil Survivor loves giving your foes healing spells.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Gen Eric Gui on June 28, 2009, 12:28:32 PM
Yeah, I can deal with all that, I just don't like it when the particular boss that's doing it can only be hurt by one of my party members.

Once I figured out what I was supposed to do it wasn't really that bad, but still.  It was annoying as hell.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Silverwolf X on June 29, 2009, 07:22:24 AM
Nothing is more suicidal then doing Amane's route first... aside from doing it twice.... man i love self torture... >.<;;
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Lard on June 29, 2009, 05:14:18 PM
I finally got my copy of Devil Survivor today.

Happy, but annoyed at Atlus.

Finished my first battle, seems pretty straightforward.

Yuzu has a nice rack.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Gen Eric Gui on June 29, 2009, 07:30:51 PM
Still not sure why you're angry at Atlus for -Canadian- shipping practices.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Losfer on June 29, 2009, 08:10:00 PM
Let's just ignore Generic's idiocy for a change.

Yuzu has a nice rack.

This!
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Eusis on June 29, 2009, 08:58:48 PM
Let's just ignore Generic's idiocy for a change

Uhh, he's stating that it may not have been under their control - they even made the packaging bilingual, possibly in an attempt to have fewer issues getting sold up there. Unless you're insane and really think companies should be attacked for anything that possibly goes wrong.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Lard on June 29, 2009, 09:23:13 PM
The release date was the 23rd.

*Nowhere* around me had it in stores until today.

If there's a discrepancy, fine. Let customers know ahead of time, don't pass the buck is all I'm saying.

And Losfer  - :D
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: jello44 on June 29, 2009, 09:39:07 PM

Yuzu has a nice rack.

She sure does.

I'm hoping someone traded a copy of Devil Survivor in at Gamestop already, since I have a coupon and could get it pretty cheap. Worse comes to worse, I'll just buy it new in a week. (Though I should stop, I've purchased too many DS games lately :P)
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Lard on June 29, 2009, 10:14:37 PM
From the sounds of things, this game isn't easy to find, you might as well grab it when you can find it.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: MeshGearFox on June 29, 2009, 11:26:05 PM
MY gamestop had the game on the 24th and they're ALWAYS late getting stuff, but I'm pretty close to Canada so maybe I got it faster or shipping was just quicker from Ohio being flat why do I feel so sideways.

Why does this game not have a monster are repository anywhere :(

Anyway how does elemental affinity work in the Devil Children games? Is it just straight up "Water-affinity demons are weak to fire" and none of this "Demon X might have random strengths on XYZ and weaknesses for ABC and reflect QVC" or whatever? I'm trying to play the damn thing in Japanese and I'm constantly DYING because I don
't know what I'm doing.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: kyuusei on June 30, 2009, 12:49:45 AM
Uhh, he's stating that it may not have been under their control - they even made the packaging bilingual, possibly in an attempt to have fewer issues getting sold up there. Unless you're insane and really think companies should be attacked for anything that possibly goes wrong.

Wait, is Atlus and bilingual packaging in Canada new? Honest question. I'm sure I got bilingual packaging on Persona 3: FES.. well, mostly sure, I may have recycled the extra French stuff which I normally do. (It's on top, not inside the case)

I haven't even looked for Devil Survivor yet, but I'm already paranoid about never finding it.

On the other hand.. I'm finally getting SMT Nocturne. :D
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Eusis on June 30, 2009, 01:02:36 AM
I've never received an Atlus game with bilingual packaging until now, it's becoming more and more common for publishers to just make bi or even trilingual packaging these days.

This doesn't mean they skimp on the manual as some do, it's nearly 100 pages so even without being bilingual it's one of the larger DS manuals I've received.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Lard on June 30, 2009, 01:23:00 AM
The Canada one is half/half - 46 pages English and 46 pages French.

I hope we didn't get a smaller one than the U.S. :(
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Eusis on June 30, 2009, 02:19:37 AM
I hope we didn't get a smaller one than the U.S. :(

You didn't, I wasn't fully clear above: ALL of North America got the bilingual packaging. Quite a few games these days do it in fact or are even trilingual, I'm blaming Quebec for this.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: N-Sef on June 30, 2009, 09:16:36 AM
Still waiting for my local import place to get Devil Survivor in, though they have other bigger titles on their list at the moment so it may be a while. Man living in Australia sucks when it comes to game releases, still we did get Terranigma so that's not so bad.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: kyuusei on June 30, 2009, 08:09:48 PM
I randomly asked EB abut Devil Survivor today. At first the girl couldn't find it, til her coworker pointed out that it was in a pile of games that had 'just come today' in the back.

Guess parts of Canada were slow in getting it after all.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Dincrest on June 30, 2009, 08:18:48 PM
I remember when I preordered P4, the clerk at GameStop couldn't find it and started reading some titles on the screen out loud.  When she said "Shin Magenta..." I said, "yes, that's the one.  Shin Megami Tensei: Persona 4."  Since then, if I preorder a MegaTen game I'll usually say "Shin Megami Tensei" and if the clerk is knowledgable, I'll just relate the funny story and have a laugh. 

I must say, the clerk who I picked up the preorder from was cool.  She knew her stuff about RPGs and was pretty cute, though she couldn't have been older than 19.  It was one of those days when I thought, "man, if I was 10 years younger, I'd have tried to score her digits." 
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: MeshGearFox on June 30, 2009, 10:26:10 PM
Quote
It was one of those days when I thought, "man, if I was 10 years younger, I'd have tried to score her digits."

Still legal bro.

"Hi do you have shin megami tensei nocturne?"
"SHUMI AMI TASEN?"
"Yeah sure."

"Hi do you have Bloodmoon?" (The morrowind expack)
"BLOODMAYO?"

Look I'm all for being an equally opportunity employer but:

a) handling mentally handicapped people to drive snow ploughs is a BAD IDEA.
b) handling deaf people to work the call center at gamestop is a BAD IDEA.

Additionally, there was the guy that tried to sell me a non-special edition of Devil Summoner 2, spent ten minutes looking for it, and then the other clerk was like "dude that doesn't exist."
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: kyuusei on June 30, 2009, 10:58:49 PM
Luckily for me, I haven't really bought very much MegaTen in stores at all. When FES came out, I was the one asking, 'do you have Persona 3 Fekzudhsfgliu hse'? because I couldn't remember the subtitle (as easy as it is, shut up :P) But it had just came out so the guy knew what the hell I meant.

I love Devil Survivor. I just won a demon by auction. Cool. :P
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Dincrest on June 30, 2009, 11:01:59 PM
Quote
It was one of those days when I thought, "man, if I was 10 years younger, I'd have tried to score her digits."

Still legal bro.

True, but me being 30 last year and her being maybe 19 is still a bit creepy, even though people tell me I look 24-25.  Eh, but these days I tend to flirt more with girls in cars when riding my bicycle.  (Uncle 'Crest has a cute story about that if anyone wants to hear it.) 

Back to MegaTen... got nothing more to say.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: N-Sef on June 30, 2009, 11:31:39 PM
Quote
It was one of those days when I thought, "man, if I was 10 years younger, I'd have tried to score her digits."

Still legal bro.

True, but me being 30 last year and her being maybe 19 is still a bit creepy, even though people tell me I look 24-25.  Eh, but these days I tend to flirt more with girls in cars when riding my bicycle.  (Uncle 'Crest has a cute story about that if anyone wants to hear it.) 

Back to MegaTen... got nothing more to say.

Ooh I wanna know! I love playa stories.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Dincrest on July 01, 2009, 08:35:42 AM
Alright.  Uncle Crest will tell a story. 

Tangent time:

This past weekend I was doing an extended bicycle ride and this small SUV full of hot girls cheered and hooted at me as they passed me by.  I caught up to them at the next stoplight, pulled up next to their vehicle, rang my bell a couple of times to get their attention, and said "tag, you're it!" with a playful grin.  They laughed and I flirted with them for a bit.  It felt like only seconds because the light seemed to turn green rather quickly.  It was like something out of a TV commercial. 

And I left thinking "man, if the light had stayed red longer or I had a little more game, I might have gotten at least one of their numbers."  Still, considering I was 40 pounds heavier a year back, having ladies in cars check me out as I ride is totally awesome. 

End tangent. 

We now return to a MegaTen discussion. 
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Sketch on July 01, 2009, 09:53:47 AM
See, I don't even bother saying the full titles of the games. Even for simpler titles like Ar Tonelico or Disgaea, I just point to what I want on the back wall and say "that one."

Anyway, I'm glad that Devil Survivor is getting so much love around these parts. =)
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Kyle on July 01, 2009, 10:07:15 AM
Neal, if I didn't know you were an honest chap, I wouldn't believe that story. Is your life always like a commercial? Either way, nice!
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Dincrest on July 01, 2009, 01:52:37 PM
Neal, if I didn't know you were an honest chap, I wouldn't believe that story. Is your life always like a commercial? Either way, nice!

Truth is always stranger than fiction, my friend.  But my life as a whole, like everyone else's, is/has been about 93% average, ordinary, everyday, uneventful, daily grind occurrences (i.e. school, job, meals, housekeeping) with about 7% being those few rare golden moments here and there.  Other peoples' lives just seem more exciting because they only tell you about the unique and interesting things that happen.  "Tag, you're it!" was one of those rare golden moments.  I've been cycling for a year now and that's the first and only time that's happened.

Even in video games like P3 and P4 that balance everyday life with exciting RPG stuff, the everyday gets accelerated.  We sure wouldn't want to take main character's exams in real time.  By contrast, a game like Shen Mue went overboard with realtime and most of the game was "hurry up and wait" for me. 
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: jello44 on July 01, 2009, 08:00:05 PM
Alright.  Uncle Crest will tell a story. 

Tangent time:

This past weekend I was doing an extended bicycle ride and this small SUV full of hot girls cheered and hooted at me as they passed me by.  I caught up to them at the next stoplight, pulled up next to their vehicle, rang my bell a couple of times to get their attention, and said "tag, you're it!" with a playful grin.  They laughed and I flirted with them for a bit.  It felt like only seconds because the light seemed to turn green rather quickly.  It was like something out of a TV commercial. 

And I left thinking "man, if the light had stayed red longer or I had a little more game, I might have gotten at least one of their numbers."  Still, considering I was 40 pounds heavier a year back, having ladies in cars check me out as I ride is totally awesome. 

End tangent. 

We now return to a MegaTen discussion. 

Did one of them pull out a roll of Mentos?
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Dincrest on July 02, 2009, 08:41:41 AM
That made me laugh, Jello. 

EDIT: Re: MegaTen.  This may sound bad, but I haven't been keeping up enough with the PSP Persona remake.  It's reported to include the Snow Queen Quest, right? 
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: MeshGearFox on July 02, 2009, 09:38:32 AM
Quote
Still, considering I was 40 pounds heavier a year back, having ladies in cars check me out as I ride is totally awesome.

They probably thought you were Lenny Kravitz or something too.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Gen Eric Gui on July 02, 2009, 11:41:42 AM
That made me laugh, Jello. 

EDIT: Re: MegaTen.  This may sound bad, but I haven't been keeping up enough with the PSP Persona remake.  It's reported to include the Snow Queen Quest, right? 

Yes, there is nothing cut of changed from the Japanese version in Persona PSP.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: MeshGearFox on July 02, 2009, 03:16:21 PM
Does this include the super high encounter rate from the original PSX Persona and lack of savepoints anywhere or are they putting in save anywhere or more augustus trees or what?

Hey goddamn you know what's really fun? I beat Persona 1 on new years eve 2006. Problem is I remember going around and grinding a bit. While sitting on the left side of my dorm. Which was my roommates side. And where I keep my stuff now that I live alone, which didn't happen till 07. My memory is made of goo :3c

Anyway so I found my Devil Children Red/Black/White manuals and figured out how the strength/weakness system worked. Groovy. And it's totally different from how DemiKids does it because THAT has eight elements like in Persona 2 (Aquas and Magna for some reason). Not that I intend on ever playing DemiKids again but I'm OCD as hell.

Also I REALLY appreciate that even the fairly meaningless dialogue prompts in Devil Survivor still cause the NPCs to actually respond to what you picked. THIS IS HOW YOU DAMN DO SILENT PROTAGONISTS.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Eusis on July 02, 2009, 03:28:09 PM
I hear they added more save points, and I wouldn't be surprised if they have a suspend feature in there. Also all the characters are back to their original names, but many of them went under a nickname anyway so Mark's still Mark.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Serene Prophet on July 06, 2009, 11:22:49 PM
So how is Devil Survivors difficulty compared to other games, aka DDS and Persona 3 in particular.  Also I heard there are alot of escort missions..which I DESPISE.  How are they in this game?  I am really intrigued by the story, I like the series, I just hate really frustrating and cheap gameplay.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Sketch on July 06, 2009, 11:57:56 PM
It's more Persona 3 than it is Digital Devil Saga. The missions are all manageable until the very end of the game, depending on what ending/route you shoot for. The route I chose was nothing but a string of seven bosses, so it was pretty ridiculous.  This is a SMT game, though, so grinding and smart tinkering with your demons will usually lead you to victory.

As far as the escort missions, some of them can be pretty brutal.  You usually have a very small amount of time to rush over to whomever you're rescuing and heal their asses, and even then, they're usually incredibly stupid and decide to attack the enemies even though they are almost dead. I wouldn't say it's game breaking, though. Again, you just need to mess around with your demons and get some movement-boosting spells.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Gen Eric Gui on July 07, 2009, 12:07:18 AM
Overall I'd say it's pretty good.  The final day on certain paths is just pure bullshit difficulty, but it's nothing that hasn't been in an SMT game before.  There are more escort missions than I would have liked but most of them are pretty simple and it's easy to protect the civvies.

It's a solid game, but it could have used a little more polishing.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Hidoshi on July 07, 2009, 12:08:09 AM
They did that. And called it Persona 4. :P Not that Persona 3 wasn't already ridiculously high calibre.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: kyuusei on July 07, 2009, 03:02:03 AM
Rescuing civilians in Devil Survivor is what's kicking my ass right now. :P

Question: I'll soon have both DDS1 and Nocturne. Guess Amazon was in a good mood. Should I get sick of Persona 4, which do I play first? :P
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Sketch on July 07, 2009, 03:07:57 AM
That's a whole lot of SMT!

DDS is my favorite PS2 series ever, so...yeah, kind of biased here. =P
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: kyuusei on July 07, 2009, 03:39:10 AM
...wow, yeah it is. I didn't even realize that I managed to mention four MegaTen games (and not one of them Persona 3, which I love) in one post. Then again it's the right thread for it and I honestly haven't played anything else. :P

I've wanted to play DDS and Nocturne for ages, and Amazon's randomly been selling re-issues on and off so I decided to take advantage before they disappeared yet again.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Gen Eric Gui on July 07, 2009, 07:57:25 AM
Rescuing civilians in Devil Survivor is what's kicking my ass right now. :P

The Avatar racial skill Switch will solve all of your problems, more than likely.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: everluck on July 12, 2009, 12:35:14 PM
I'm really surprised Devil Survivor isn't getting more attention here. It's my favorite RPG in I-don't-even-know-how-long. Never played a Megami Tensei game before. Can I expect this sort of quality from the rest of the series?
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Gen Eric Gui on July 12, 2009, 12:54:49 PM
Yes.  A lot of people consider Devil Survivor to be the lowpoint of the series, so take that as you will.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Dincrest on July 12, 2009, 02:08:32 PM
Among veteran MegaTen fans, Rhonde is considered the absolute worst of the worst in MegaTen.  My least favorite MegaTen games were Revelations: The Demon Slayer (Last Bible 1, I hear the other two are good) and DemiKids (Devil Children Red and Black were much better.) 
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Dizzy on July 12, 2009, 02:16:59 PM
Wasn't a big fan of The Demon Slayer either, but somehow I still managed to finish it.

... And I have random thoughts of replaying it. I wish I didn't... D:
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: kyuusei on July 12, 2009, 04:21:06 PM
Yes.  A lot of people consider Devil Survivor to be the lowpoint of the series, so take that as you will.

Really. I mean, I doubt people expect it to hold up against Persona games or Nocturne, but for what it is I enjoy it. (Let's forget for a second that I haven't touched it in about five days.)

By the way, how are the Devil Summoner games? Yes, I'm aware that I have far, far too much MegaTen to play as is, but are DS 1 and 2 games worth making my backlog even bigger? :P
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Gen Eric Gui on July 12, 2009, 04:32:03 PM
Among veteran MegaTen fans, Rhonde is considered the absolute worst of the worst in MegaTen.  My least favorite MegaTen games were Revelations: The Demon Slayer (Last Bible 1, I hear the other two are good) and DemiKids (Devil Children Red and Black were much better.) 

I suppose low point was the wrong word.  Among the "popular" Megaten games, it's considered the bottom.  The handful of game freezing bugs and the somewhat unbalanced combat seem to be the main issues.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: everluck on July 12, 2009, 05:45:30 PM
Haven't run into any bugs or balance issues yet (day 3). The story is really clever. The whole time mechanic is very well done. The characters aren't as mature as I'd like, but as the game progresses they become less grating. Really enjoying the combat, demon recruiting, and fusion as well. It's pretty fun experimenting with new combinations.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: MeshGearFox on July 12, 2009, 07:45:43 PM
Quote
Among the "popular" Megaten games, it's considered the bottom.

I haven't really heard that anywhere (and I'm not really sure what popular means in context of Megaten), but I will agree that the crashes are hugely problematic and that Atlus should address them somehow. However, I'm not really picking up on any *balance* issues insofar, in the sense that -- and keep in mind that this is strictly from what I've seen. I haven't finished the game yet -- I haven't seen any universally viable, game-breaking strategies strategies, all problems I've had with beating a mission are addressable by trying a new party layout and experiment with different skills, and grinding is only necessary if you back yourself into a corner. Civvie *AI* can be a problem, but that's not particularly balance-oriented.

Quote
By the way, how are the Devil Summoner games? Yes, I'm aware that I have far, far too much MegaTen to play as is, but are DS 1 and 2 games worth making my backlog even bigger? :P

DS1, no. DS2, very, very yes.

Anyway from what I remember I didn't really dislike anything about Last Bible 1 except that it used SMT1-style conversation/negotiation, trees which annoy the hell out of me, there wasn't really great feedback with what was going on, and... uh... those goddamn slidy controls. Like, you walk, and you tend to slip around a lot? Anyone that played the game'll know what I mean.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Losfer on July 12, 2009, 08:59:21 PM
I think Devil Survivor is probably the best Megaten game I've played, but I'm biased towards SRPGs.  This being said, the game is actually a good tactics game, cause they don't mire you down with too many systems.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Dincrest on July 12, 2009, 09:01:30 PM
I never had a chance to play the Majin Tensei games (which are the SRPG MegaTen games), but when I used to mod a MegaTen forum, the veterans who played them said they were good (well, except Ronde.) 
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: MeshGearFox on July 12, 2009, 09:59:04 PM
"Not miring the player down in too many systems" is sort of SMT as a whole, I guess, along with really integrating the systems together well. SRPGs are pretty guilty of going for way too many systems, though. So are Tales games.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: kyuusei on July 12, 2009, 11:35:49 PM
Quote
By the way, how are the Devil Summoner games? Yes, I'm aware that I have far, far too much MegaTen to play as is, but are DS 1 and 2 games worth making my backlog even bigger? :P

DS1, no. DS2, very, very yes.

Is playing DS1 a necessity to play DS2?

I found the same thing about Devil Survivor, there's no good universal tactics. I've enjoyed the game a lot even though I ignored it for Persona 4 quite a bit lately. The characters can be a bit annoying, though, but be thankful there's no voice acting. =P
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: professor ganson on July 12, 2009, 11:38:40 PM
I'd really love to be playing Devil Survivor right now, but Luminous Arc 2 and Wild Arms XF are taking up every bit of spare time.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Jet16 on July 12, 2009, 11:43:21 PM
Is playing DS1 a necessity to play DS2?

No, it's not. There's no story continuity beyond the main cast returning, even then they explain the past in minor detail as refreshers. The games are very 'episodic' in nature, so you're fine with just starting with Devil Summoner 2. Though, I'll still say go with Devil Summoner 1, the setting, story, music and art direction carry you through the really basic battle system. Also, you'll gain an appreciation for Devil Summoner 2's major enhancements and possibly get an even larger boner for Atlus as a result.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: MeshGearFox on July 13, 2009, 12:23:30 AM
DS1 apparently just got expensive as hell though.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: kyuusei on July 13, 2009, 12:26:20 AM
Yeah.. I noticed.

Typical Atlus with their MegaTen games..
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Gen Eric Gui on July 13, 2009, 12:32:13 AM
Quote
I haven't really heard that anywhere (and I'm not really sure what popular means in context of Megaten), but I will agree that the crashes are hugely problematic and that Atlus should address them somehow. However, I'm not really picking up on any *balance* issues insofar, in the sense that -- and keep in mind that this is strictly from what I've seen. I haven't finished the game yet -- I haven't seen any universally viable, game-breaking strategies strategies, all problems I've had with beating a mission are addressable by trying a new party layout and experiment with different skills, and grinding is only necessary if you back yourself into a corner. Civvie *AI* can be a problem, but that's not particularly balance-oriented.

I visit many forums in my internet travels, and the most common comment I tend to hear about the game is that it's kind of meh.  And when I refer to the "popular megaten" games, I'm pretty much referring to US-released ones from PS2 onwards.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Jet16 on July 13, 2009, 12:42:46 AM
I visit many forums in my internet travels, and the most common comment I tend to hear about the game is that it's kind of meh.  And when I refer to the "popular megaten" games, I'm pretty much referring to US-released ones from PS2 onwards.

Compared to the PS2 SMT releases, yeah sure you could consider it lower tier, but 'meh' is sort of an indifferent response to the game and the game isn't without its merits, certainly inciting a better response than 'meh' when compared to the other SMTs. However, when compared to other RPGs, it's definitely way up there in my list. Either way, I don't see any warrant in calling the game anything less than great. Also, I haven't seen any crashes either and I'm about 15 hours in.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Gen Eric Gui on July 13, 2009, 01:22:50 AM
I thought the game was great.

I'm just saying that seems to be a common theme among peoples I see on the internets.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Eusis on July 13, 2009, 01:27:37 AM
I'm just saying that seems to be a common theme among peoples I see on the internets.

It seems fairly well received at the other forum I frequent, but I haven't paid too much attention to the thread about the game. I'm horribly behind on it, I can barely motivate myself to get anywhere in an RPG these days. :(
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: professor ganson on July 13, 2009, 02:46:05 PM
I think Devil Survivor is probably the best Megaten game I've played, but I'm biased towards SRPGs.  This being said, the game is actually a good tactics game, cause they don't mire you down with too many systems.

I'm really glad to hear this because I too am biased towards SRPGs.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: MeshGearFox on July 13, 2009, 08:24:02 PM
http://img441.imageshack.us/i/guriguri.png/

Best demon ever. Needs to be in a modern SMT game.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: CDFN on July 16, 2009, 10:24:23 AM
I started playing devil survivor today and I'm enjoying it. Once I get started with a SMT game I can't stop, what is it with these games?
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Gen Eric Gui on July 16, 2009, 11:30:26 AM
I started playing devil survivor today and I'm enjoying it. Once I get started with a SMT game I can't stop, what is it with these games?

They're good.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Jet16 on July 16, 2009, 11:59:31 AM
I started playing devil survivor today and I'm enjoying it. Once I get started with a SMT game I can't stop, what is it with these games?

They're laced with crack.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Dincrest on July 16, 2009, 12:02:22 PM
Methinks then that Ronde, DemiKids, and Demon Slayer (Last Bible 1) were just science experiments by Atlus to prove that subpar MegaTen games were not a mythical impossibility. 

Wishful thinking: Soul Hackers remake for PSP in English.  Like the Persona remake. 
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Gen Eric Gui on July 16, 2009, 12:34:19 PM
That actually does sound like something Atlus Japan would do.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: MeshGearFox on July 16, 2009, 05:42:53 PM
You know, even within DemiKids Dark was a lot better than Light, because Light's fusion mechanics were gimped somehow, and it was easier, and it didn't have Destroyed Future World.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Dincrest on July 16, 2009, 07:32:31 PM
As I said in my review, I think Light fleshed out the characters more and Dark fleshed out the world more.  I fused a wider variety of demons in Light than I did in Dark.  And, yes, Light was easier.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: cj_iwakura on July 16, 2009, 11:29:25 PM
I liked Dark more in every aspect.

And hey, check this out:

http://new.atlusnet.jp (http://new.atlusnet.jp)


(http://i31.tinypic.com/2q0syux.jpg)

From Atlus' MB:

Quote
"Earth is irrevocably destined to perish.
To ensure the future of mankind, we must persevere!"

Rest of the text is pretty cryptic. Something about an investigation unit sent to the South Pole.


Has the next gen core SMT arrived?
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Gen Eric Gui on July 16, 2009, 11:42:04 PM
I hope so.  I've loved all the spin-offs, but we need another Nocturne stat.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Eusis on July 16, 2009, 11:53:05 PM
I hope so.  I've loved all the spin-offs, but we need another Nocturne stat.

I might be kind of nitpicky here, but wouldn't that be the same as saying "We need a new Super Metroid!" when Metroid 4 is hinted at? I guess that still applies on other levels though.

That does make me wonder how they'll number it though. I guess they'd either stick with the subtitle or call it Shin Megami Tensei 2.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Lard on July 17, 2009, 12:05:09 AM
"Earth is irrevocably destined to perish.
To ensure the future of mankind, we must persevere!
Rest of the text is pretty cryptic. Something about an investigation unit sent to the South Pole."

Makes me think of "At The Mountains of Madness" by HP Lovecraft.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: kyuusei on July 17, 2009, 01:42:24 AM
Persona 5.

Kidding. =P That page is, uh, trippy though.

I think my MegaTen backlog just cried a bit.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Eusis on July 17, 2009, 01:47:18 AM
I think my MegaTen backlog just cried a bit.

Thankfully I think it'll be a while before we see anything new come here once Persona PSP is out. This has been a crazy rush of titles, and it doesn't seem like Atlus has more lined up in Japan pending something completely insane like SMT1 actually coming out here on the VC.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: ULTROS! on July 17, 2009, 03:48:08 AM
The CSS file (http://new.atlusnet.jp/elements/default.css) contained something like this:

#logo_megami {
position:absolute;
top:85px;
left:204px;
}

Do you think this is the game announced waaay back during 2005 regarding the next SMT being on the PS3? :P
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Eusis on July 17, 2009, 04:04:03 AM
Do you think this is the game announced waaay back during 2005 regarding the next SMT being on the PS3? :P

Given the time span, probably not. The best you could hope for is the general plan to put one on the PS3 and that they had an idea they finally got around to working on.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Hidoshi on July 17, 2009, 04:07:54 AM
Watch. You wake up on Monday morning:

PEROSONA 5 THROUGH 7 TO BE RELEASED AT CHRISTMAS 2009

Just to spite you, Eus. Just to spite you.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Losfer on July 17, 2009, 06:57:37 AM
I've officially reached Megaten saturation, cause this announcement made me think: oh god not another one.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Lord Dorkus on July 17, 2009, 08:10:37 AM
http://gonintendo.com/viewstory.php?id=89649
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Raziel on July 17, 2009, 10:06:51 AM
I hope it's not for DS. Please.

I wouldn't mind if it's not Shin Megami Tensei 4, because Megaten mythos has many possibilities waiting to be exploited.

Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: kyuusei on July 17, 2009, 11:26:04 AM
Watch. You wake up on Monday morning:

PEROSONA 5 THROUGH 7 TO BE RELEASED AT CHRISTMAS 2009

Just to spite you, Eus. Just to spite you.
LOL

As much as I love P3 and 4, I'd probably vomit.

Thankfully I think it'll be a while before we see anything new come here once Persona PSP is out. This has been a crazy rush of titles, and it doesn't seem like Atlus has more lined up in Japan pending something completely insane like SMT1 actually coming out here on the VC.

I'm hoping it's a PS3 title and/or takes a while to come out, since I don't have a PS3. Then again, if it takes a while, I might wind up with one before this game comes out.

Strange Journey, huh? I was expecting a cooler title for a MegaTen game.

And since it's way past October 2008, looks like it's coming in August 2010. Yeah, definitely not a DS game. :P
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Gen Eric Gui on July 17, 2009, 01:00:14 PM
Quote
And since it's way past October 2008, looks like it's coming in August 2010. Yeah, definitely not a DS game. :P

I assumed it was saying the game is launching October 8th.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: MeshGearFox on July 17, 2009, 05:06:54 PM
Quote
Rest of the text is pretty cryptic. Something about an investigation unit sent to the South Pole.

HOLY SHIT they're making an NGE game!
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: kyuusei on July 17, 2009, 08:01:06 PM
Quote
And since it's way past October 2008, looks like it's coming in August 2010. Yeah, definitely not a DS game. :P

I assumed it was saying the game is launching October 8th.

Oh. Hm. I was just thinking in terms of months and years. Me thinks I watch too many movie trailers.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Madoka on July 17, 2009, 09:21:11 PM
Quote
Rest of the text is pretty cryptic. Something about an investigation unit sent to the South Pole.

HOLY SHIT they're making an NGE game!

Anta baka?
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: ULTROS! on July 19, 2009, 10:02:19 AM
http://7rush-pc.net/news/2009/07/02/01.html

There's this rumor going around that Persona 5 has been announced, exclusively for PS3 ("Playstation3専用ソフト『ペルソナ5")
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Raziel on July 19, 2009, 10:47:22 AM
http://7rush-pc.net/news/2009/07/02/01.html

There's this rumor going around that Persona 5 has been announced, exclusively for PS3 ("Playstation3専用ソフト『ペルソナ5")

Oh please no...
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: jj984jj on July 19, 2009, 10:54:09 AM
It's not a rumour, it's an assumption on their part.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: MeshGearFox on July 19, 2009, 11:30:09 AM
What was kind of stupidest about DemiKids' story was that they didn't follow the sort of plot threads they were setting up. It had a lot of potential but like, nothing was develop. Like the stuff about what exactly the deal with the Time Rifts and Time Chains was, or that big implied thing that Jin and Akira were younger versions of Dark Lord and Light Lord. Also, Jin and Akira never really had any personal involvement with the story which was maybe the dumbest thing and biggest departure from the previous games. "Found book in library" is sort of dumbnutz from "Demons put my sister in a coma" or "Angels kidnapped my 8-year-old brother to turn him into a soulless rape machine."
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: kyuusei on July 19, 2009, 01:16:59 PM
Oh God no, Persona 5.

Please be SMT4.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Lard on July 19, 2009, 01:43:03 PM
Please be both.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: MeshGearFox on July 19, 2009, 03:55:15 PM
SMT4 IS persona 5. It's this big Crisis of Infinite Earths mindtrip and in the end Nanjou discovers the power of love by making out with SMT1 hero's Cerberus (and then mpreg ensues).
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Dincrest on July 19, 2009, 04:48:14 PM
And where does the penis monster fit into all that, Meshie boy?  Because you know it ain't MegaTen without a good penis monster. 
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Gen Eric Gui on July 19, 2009, 05:26:03 PM
He attacks Vile Arioch with Myriad Arrows and they get paid a lot of money by a guy named Maxxx Maximum.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Lucca on July 19, 2009, 05:49:19 PM
Am I the only one who would be happy with either SMT OR a persona game?

Devil Survivor (even though it's a total offshoot) got me interested in the more SMT side of the series (Where you can either be lawful, neutral, or an outright chaotic bastard), so now I want to play nocturne.

However, I enjoyed the snot out of Persona 3 and 4, so I wouldn't mind a sequel, so long as there's some upgrades to the battle system. Not that the battle system is bad, but there was little improvement between 3 and 4's (With the exception of controlling all characters, WHICH WAS AWESOME).

Oh, and Chie's GALACTIC PUNT.

Sort of on topic, but I just want to say that Gin's Route in Devil Survivor has made me want to throw my DS through a window. BOSS GAUNTLET A GO-GO.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: MeshGearFox on July 19, 2009, 09:00:20 PM
Quote
And where does the penis monster fit into all that, Meshie boy?  Because you know it ain't MegaTen without a good penis monster.

You see that giant hole in antarctica in the promo picture?

(Teehee, penis :3c).
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Aeolus on July 20, 2009, 01:14:36 AM
Quote
And where does the penis monster fit into all that, Meshie boy?  Because you know it ain't MegaTen without a good penis monster.

You see that giant hole in antarctica in the promo picture?

(Teehee, penis :3c).

I knew the earth was screwed, but not in the literal sense!
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: kyuusei on July 20, 2009, 01:38:24 AM
I LOVE Persona 3 and 4 but.. I dunno if I could play a third game in a row with that system. If it is indeed P5, I hope they revamp/change it up a little more than they did in P4. Just sayin'.

Who am I kidding, I'll still buy it.

So long as it's not an MMO or MMO expansion, or a cellphone game or anything like that. The teasing better be worth it, God damnit.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: CDFN on July 20, 2009, 09:21:20 AM
I recently bought a PS3 and P3&4 are in my top5 favorite games ever so yeah, P5 (or SMT) on the PS3 would make my year.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Losfer on July 20, 2009, 08:39:43 PM
Here's an article from Siliconera.

http://www.siliconera.com/2009/07/20/pachislot-report-says-persona-5-for-ps3/

Hurray, my PS3 will get some use now.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Jet16 on July 20, 2009, 09:15:55 PM
"which claims Persona 5 will be announced for the PlayStation 3 soon in the midst of a MegaTen boom."

A reporter claims Atlus will announce the game? What the hell? Is that really necessary? That's really them just assuming the obvious that Atlus will announce it eventually.

Hurray, my PS3 will get some use now.

Although you said this jokingly, I can't see how this point holds any ground now. There are a good deal of quality PS3 exclusives that have caused me not to fire up my 360 in quite a while.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Gen Eric Gui on July 21, 2009, 11:41:10 AM
I don't know why so many people are putting stock in what some random reporter in Japan has to say.  It's the equivalent of Oprah saying she thinks that Duke Nukem Forever will be released on the iPhone, and everyone believing her just because.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: MeshGearFox on July 21, 2009, 05:11:57 PM
Oh I got a good one.

Quote
And where does the penis monster fit into all that, Meshie boy?

Hey don't ask me. YOU'RE the one with the giant penis monster.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Losfer on July 21, 2009, 08:35:11 PM
"which claims Persona 5 will be announced for the PlayStation 3 soon in the midst of a MegaTen boom."

A reporter claims Atlus will announce the game? What the hell? Is that really necessary? That's really them just assuming the obvious that Atlus will announce it eventually.

Hurray, my PS3 will get some use now.

Although you said this jokingly, I can't see how this point holds any ground now. There are a good deal of quality PS3 exclusives that have caused me not to fire up my 360 in quite a while.

Wtf, I didn't say anything jokingly, I haven't played my PS3 in months.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Jet16 on July 21, 2009, 09:17:13 PM
Well... my bad. Whatever then, my point wasn't about that anyway.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: kyuusei on July 21, 2009, 09:22:14 PM
Is it Friday yet? I wanna know what the hell this MegaTen is.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: jj984jj on July 21, 2009, 09:44:51 PM
Is it Friday yet? I wanna know what the hell this MegaTen is.
I'm sure Famitsu will tell us in a few hours.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: cj_iwakura on July 21, 2009, 10:41:57 PM
Right you are.

Strange Journey is a DS game.

Got to thank Joule for the scans:

Well, it's confirmed: Strange Journey is a DS game.

(http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff8/JouleHaim/th_29138_1248228469758_122_373lo.jpg) (http://s243.photobucket.com/albums/ff8/JouleHaim/?action=view&current=29138_1248228469758_122_373lo.jpg)(http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff8/JouleHaim/th_32160_1248228578904_122_977lo-1.jpg) (http://s243.photobucket.com/albums/ff8/JouleHaim/?action=view&current=32160_1248228578904_122_977lo-1.jpg)(http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff8/JouleHaim/th_29412_1248228732522_122_115lo.jpg) (http://s243.photobucket.com/albums/ff8/JouleHaim/?action=view&current=29412_1248228732522_122_115lo.jpg)(http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff8/JouleHaim/th_32316_1248228801900_122_831lo.jpg) (http://s243.photobucket.com/albums/ff8/JouleHaim/?action=view&current=32316_1248228801900_122_831lo.jpg)(http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff8/JouleHaim/th_29488_1248228886983_122_1187lo.jpg) (http://s243.photobucket.com/albums/ff8/JouleHaim/?action=view&current=29488_1248228886983_122_1187lo.jpg)

Seems like it's straight out of Devil Survivor's engine.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: MeshGearFox on July 21, 2009, 10:48:34 PM
Holy shit, SMT game in SPACE that's a DUNGEON CRAWL with DEVIL SURVIVOR DEMON ART plus KANEKO CHARACTER ART?

Fucking there you bitches better localize this or I will hurt you fuckers.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: cj_iwakura on July 21, 2009, 10:54:47 PM
I think this uses Etrian Odyssey's mapping interface.

That would be amazing.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Draak on July 21, 2009, 11:42:20 PM
So it's like SMT meets EO? Fuck yeah!
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Jet16 on July 21, 2009, 11:42:35 PM
....nice
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Lard on July 22, 2009, 12:10:40 AM
I haven't played Etrian Odyssey, but I'll be picking this up for sure.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Eusis on July 22, 2009, 12:54:50 AM
I think this uses Etrian Odyssey's mapping interface.

You know, I recall someone telling me that Etrian Odyssey was to test how well classic Shin Megami Tensei would be received on a handheld. I guess this is the realization of that!
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: kyuusei on July 22, 2009, 01:20:05 AM
it ain't SMT4, but I'm liking this.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Eusis on July 22, 2009, 01:26:00 AM
it ain't SMT4, but I'm liking this.

Or is it? I see the Japanese Shin Megami Tensei letters up there, and unlike here they don't actually brand every game Shin Megami Tensei, so I see this as either dropping the numbering but effectively being 4, or (probably more likely honestly) a Four Warriors of Light retro game.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Ramza on July 22, 2009, 01:29:35 AM
SMT letters mean little to nothing. They brand that on all their Gaiden games...

NINE
If...
Online
Devil Summoner
DemiKids

etcetcetc...

But anyway, this game looks totally sweet. I suspect, someday, they will still make a numbered SMT4. This just ain't it.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Eusis on July 22, 2009, 01:37:28 AM
... I just got that same response elsewhere, heh. Well, not with DemiKids listed, but I think Atlus USA just wanted to launch the brand here properly. Anyways, that does make sense to use the name for spin-offs that are closer to the gameplay of the originals.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: kyuusei on July 22, 2009, 02:30:19 AM
SMT letters mean little to nothing. They brand that on all their Gaiden games...

NINE
If...
Online
Devil Summoner
DemiKids

etcetcetc...

But anyway, this game looks totally sweet. I suspect, someday, they will still make a numbered SMT4. This just ain't it.
Beat me to it. I doubt they'd make this SMT4, in any case. I bet.. hope they'll still make one.

That said.. I hope Strange Journey takes its sweet-ass time coming out, I have enough MegaTen to catch up on as is. :P
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: CDFN on July 22, 2009, 09:23:35 AM
Devil survivor's soundtrack oficially rocks!
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Losfer on July 22, 2009, 10:12:15 AM
Boring and trite.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: CDFN on July 22, 2009, 10:43:06 AM
I like it, can't get it out of my head. This is the first DS game I am playing and I was expecting worse in the sound department to be honest. I think the tunes are great.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Lucca on July 22, 2009, 12:29:10 PM
I really like Devil Survivor's music. My only complaint is there's just not enough of it. The same tunes repeat over and over.

As to Strange Journey, I'm stoked that the cast does not look like teenagers. A game where the PCs are over 18? NO WAY. Course, it could just be the suits.

I'm pleasantly surprised at how nifty this title looks. I'll totally go for a game that has a good SMTish storyline with dungeon crawling. Least, that's my hope for this game.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: kyuusei on July 22, 2009, 12:39:10 PM
Over-18 PCs are good!

I love Devil Survivor's music as well.

Of Course Atlus is gonna bring Strange Journey over here.

Aw damn, I tried the URL at the bottom right in the last scan, but it doesn't work. (Yet.)
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: jj984jj on July 22, 2009, 01:24:23 PM
Boring and trite.
As opposed to another Persona game? They've been milking it since 2006.

I'm much more excited for this and hope SMTIV follows before they go back to spin-offs on the consoles, it's awesome to see Kaneko doing character designs for turn-based SMT games again.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Dincrest on July 22, 2009, 03:55:55 PM
Getting to converse with demons again is cool.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Lard on July 26, 2009, 09:14:59 PM
Amazon has Nocturne and DDS 1 & 2 for $30 each.

That's a steal - go buy them.

http://www.amazon.com/Shin-Megami-Tensei-Nocturne-Playstation-2/dp/B00024W1U6/ref=dp_cp_ob_vg_title_1
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: kyuusei on July 26, 2009, 09:31:20 PM
Yeah, I got DDS and Nocturne there, but got DDS2 off Amazon.ca instead for the free shipping :P
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: erwos on July 27, 2009, 08:44:59 AM
As opposed to another Persona game? They've been milking it since 2006.
As far as I'm concerned, they can keep milking that series until the games start to suck or blend together. Persona 3 FES was a masterpiece, and Persona 4 was just fantastic. Maybe bump it up to college kids next time - that should provide for some more varied S.Links.

I played a teensy bit of Devil Survivor over the weekend, and I'm a little meh on it. Story and characters aren't growing on me very much yet, but the battle system is pretty interesting.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Gen Eric Gui on July 27, 2009, 11:43:16 AM
As much as I loved Persona 4, the idea is pretty well played out already.  You're right, P3 was very good and P4 only improved on everything, but I think they've pretty well tapped that well dry and they need to move on.  To make the next game better and still interesting, they'd need to make some pretty serious overhauls to the system, and at that point they might as well just make another new game.  Which, thankfully, is what we're getting with Strange Journey.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: kyuusei on July 27, 2009, 12:35:36 PM
As far as I'm concerned, they can keep milking that series until the games start to suck or blend together. Persona 3 FES was a masterpiece, and Persona 4 was just fantastic. Maybe bump it up to college kids next time - that should provide for some more varied S.Links.

I played a teensy bit of Devil Survivor over the weekend, and I'm a little meh on it. Story and characters aren't growing on me very much yet, but the battle system is pretty interesting.
I'd like to see them return to Persona although not right away, but in a couple years from now and do SMT4 first or something. And then do a Persona 5 with a bit of a revamped system (but keep the Social Links), with college kids like you said - and maybe a female protagonist? That'd change things up a bit.

I enjoy the system. I agree the exact same thing for a 3rd game would be tired. My one complaint about Persona 3/4 is that while 4 really improved on the gameplay, the story declined (with the exception of the Dojimas) from how good 3's was.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Raziel on July 27, 2009, 12:36:09 PM
As much as I loved Persona 4, the idea is pretty well played out already.  You're right, P3 was very good and P4 only improved on everything, but I think they've pretty well tapped that well dry and they need to move on.  To make the next game better and still interesting, they'd need to make some pretty serious overhauls to the system, and at that point they might as well just make another new game.  Which, thankfully, is what we're getting with Strange Journey.

Agreed, although I'd like to add that P4 was weaker than P3. At least that's what I think.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: kyuusei on July 27, 2009, 12:42:42 PM
Agreed, although I'd like to add that P4 was weaker than P3. At least that's what I think.

Curious. In what way? Story, characters, gameplay, or which? Or do you mean overall?
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: erwos on July 27, 2009, 12:58:20 PM
Curious. In what way? Story, characters, gameplay, or which? Or do you mean overall?
I think there was a general consensus that Persona 4's story was weaker, but that the gameplay had some very welcome improvements. In my eyes, that's not a slight on Persona 4's story, really - it's just a very difficult thing to follow a mind-blowing story like Persona 3 FES had.

I've always thought of Persona as being more about the deep relationships that people have with each other than about a particular battle system or whatever. (That same thing is what I think gave Lost Odyssey a lot of its punch, too, as a matter of fact.) I think I'd care more about seeing the S.Links improve than the battle system. A college campus and a female protagonist would give S.Links and the story some new places to go, and, in my opinion, keep the series fresh.

Of course, if they just launched a complete cash-in title that was just P2/P3/P4 characters in a giant cross-over, I'd buy that, too, because I am a total Persona nut.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: kyuusei on July 27, 2009, 01:16:54 PM
Curious. In what way? Story, characters, gameplay, or which? Or do you mean overall?
I think there was a general consensus that Persona 4's story was weaker, but that the gameplay had some very welcome improvements. In my eyes, that's not a slight on Persona 4's story, really - it's just a very difficult thing to follow a mind-blowing story like Persona 3 FES had.
I don't disagree at all, I just wanted to hear his opinion since he didn't specify what it was about Persona 4 that he found weak.

I think the story had potential to be better than it was, but 1) it got off to a REALLY slow start which discouraged me greatly at first and 2) where I am, at December 20th, the conclusions thus far have been a total letdown. Granted, I haven't FINISHED the game obviously, and there's still room for a satisfying explanation for the fog and the TV world, although from what I heard, the explanations are kind of lame and/or vague.

But even aside all that, it'd have been hard to beat Persona 3's story.
Quote
I've always thought of Persona as being more about the deep relationships that people have with each other than about a particular battle system or whatever. (That same thing is what I think gave Lost Odyssey a lot of its punch, too, as a matter of fact.) I think I'd care more about seeing the S.Links improve than the battle system. A college campus and a female protagonist would give S.Links and the story some new places to go, and, in my opinion, keep the series fresh.
Yeah, I do tend to go for games with more character/story/relationship development. Which is why I love Persona it seems, although, I won't turn down a decent battle system either.

I think, when I beat the final boss, I'll write a review or something that compares P3 and 4.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Dincrest on July 27, 2009, 01:28:20 PM
MegaTen games have rarely had female leads.  The few I can think of offhand are Shin Megami Tensei If where you can select a male or female avatar, Devil Children: Red Book (Mirai), and Persona 2: Eternal Punishment (Maya.)  One aspect I really liked about EP was the writing and portrayal of adult protagonists.  Granted, the Persona games write teenagers very well, but it would be nice to visit a Persona world with some adults again.  Sometimes those unresolved inner demons from the formative youth years rear their ugly heads in adulthood.  They certainly did for some of EP's characters. 

MegaTen with an adult female lead would be awesome. 
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: kyuusei on July 27, 2009, 01:42:29 PM
Oh yeah, I know well this series hasn't had many female leads - which is why I think it would be a nice change-up. :)

I still want Persona 2, the prices on eBay are just retarded.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: CDFN on July 27, 2009, 02:00:15 PM
Devil survivor's story is great, the tension is always sky high because of the situation the characters are in and it just keeps getting worse. It's indeed a fight for survival every second of the game. It's amazing how easily they make you care about these characters, even when the game is presented on such a limited medium. When it comes to jrpgs SMT's writing is second to none.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Eusis on July 27, 2009, 02:33:36 PM
As far as I'm concerned, they can keep milking that series until the games start to suck or blend together.

No, it's best to stop a series short of that and pace themselves out so Persona can remain great and not be ruined for everyone. It's like avoiding gorging on your favorite food so you can still love it and not begin to hate it, or possibly worse yet the developers run out of steam and they just can't produce a good one. Look at Mega Man, after the first few titles in the original series the games went from amazing to merely ok, then after a 10+ year break they put out 9 and it's fantastic, or at least more exciting to get than it would've been ten years prior.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Raziel on July 27, 2009, 02:43:28 PM
Agreed, although I'd like to add that P4 was weaker than P3. At least that's what I think.

Curious. In what way? Story, characters, gameplay, or which? Or do you mean overall?

Mainly story and characters. I still think P4 is a great game, but while it's improvements are great (even though I was perfectly fine with P3's battle system, and found the automatic AI nearly useless in this game), I think the story drags too much, and the conclusion left me disappointed (the normal good ending, that is). Oh, and as I mentioned somewhere else, Teddie is an idiotic character who felt to me as a fanservice, just another contribution to ero doujins.

Eusis is spot on. Another spin on P3 & P4 formula would be no good without MAJOR improvements, like having the Social Lins characters and your decisions affect the story and the characters and their interaction, to the point that you can actually mess up your relationships permanently.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: CDFN on July 27, 2009, 03:54:51 PM
I would really love a direct sequel to P3/P4 with the characters from both games.

The starting point for the story could be:

Code: [Select]
Elizabeth trying to save P3's MC. I thought it was really cool when Margareth revealed that her sister wasn't in the velvet room because she was trying to save the guy from P3, I would love to see that arc develop into a story for a new game eventually involving the most popular characters from both games with maybe a few new ones, maybe a new protagonist who would somehow get involved in the whole thing.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: MeshGearFox on July 27, 2009, 07:20:22 PM
Quote
Teddie is an idiotic character who felt to me as a fanservice, just another contribution to ero doujins.

Wait. People write erotic porn about giant plush bears?

...

Wait. Of course they do. What was I thinking.

Quote
When it comes to jrpgs SMT's writing is second to none.

Yyyyeah pretty much.

Anyway, I'm kinda surprised that Strange Journey has animated demons. It looked like they were reusing a lot of resources from Devil Survivor, like they do with a lot of their games (which I'm fine with since it means stuff gets released in reasonable damn periods of time), but I guess not. And Strange Journey is *pretty* and it damn well better come out here.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: kyuusei on July 27, 2009, 11:45:18 PM
I would really love a direct sequel to P3/P4 with the characters from both games.

The starting point for the story could be:

Code: [Select]
Elizabeth trying to save P3's MC. I thought it was really cool when Margareth revealed that her sister wasn't in the velvet room because she was trying to save the guy from P3, I would love to see that arc develop into a story for a new game eventually involving the most popular characters from both games with maybe a few new ones, maybe a new protagonist who would somehow get involved in the whole thing.
That's a neat idea. When does Margaret mention this, by the way? I'm not doubting you, since many people have told me this, I was just wondering if it's in the S-link since I never got it past level 2.
Code: [Select]
It could work since P3 takes place in 2009 and P4 takes place in 2011, and P4 visits P3's area (Port Island) in which you go to the school, meet the principal and that weird teacher AND Chihiro, plus a reference to Mitsuru, so further proof 3/4 are in the same universe and all...I still vote for a female lead. =P
Quote
Mainly story and characters. I still think P4 is a great game, but while it's improvements are great (even though I was perfectly fine with P3's battle system, and found the automatic AI nearly useless in this game),
I didn't give P4's AI much of a chance, but it might have been so dumb that it pissed me off after like one battle. I found P3's AI to be pretty good, save for the final battle. Then again, I found the main character in P3 to be stronger than 4's, so maybe his supporting cast wasn't as badly needed.

Quote
I think the story drags too much, and the conclusion left me disappointed (the normal good ending, that is).
I probably mentioned it in this thread already, but I agree, the story moved FAR too slowly in the beginning, and as of December 20th the conclusions THUS FAR have been a letdown.

As for Teddie, I have NO IDEA what to think of him.
Quote
like having the Social Lins characters and your decisions affect the story and the characters and their interaction, to the point that you can actually mess up your relationships permanently.
Even while playing P3, I kept thinking of how I'd like to see some S-links have more tie-ins to the main story, including decisions you make. I BROKE my S-link with Mitsuru entirely at one point, but reset immediately after :P (I assume you have to start the link from thebeginning if that happens, but I wasn't willing to find out)
Quote
No, it's best to stop a series short of that and pace themselves out so Persona can remain great and not be ruined for everyone. (etc)
Exactly. Which is why I say they should step away from Persona for a few years and revamp the system a little so they don't oversaturate us either way.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Raziel on July 28, 2009, 12:54:28 AM
Quote
Teddie is an idiotic character who felt to me as a fanservice, just another contribution to ero doujins.

Wait. People write erotic porn about giant plush bears?

You haven't played the game, have you?

Code: [Select]
I meant his androgynous form.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: jello44 on July 28, 2009, 02:02:59 AM
Oh yeah, I know well this series hasn't had many female leads - which is why I think it would be a nice change-up. :)

I still want Persona 2, the prices on eBay are just retarded.

I wonder if they'll do for Persona 2 what they did with the original. Port it to the PSP, it's possible.

I'm playing through Devil Survivor and P3 at the moment enjoying them both; and I will probably pick up P4 within the next week or so. yay.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Draak on July 28, 2009, 03:27:17 AM
Oh yeah, I know well this series hasn't had many female leads - which is why I think it would be a nice change-up. :)

I still want Persona 2, the prices on eBay are just retarded.

I wonder if they'll do for Persona 2 what they did with the original. Port it to the PSP, it's possible.

I wouldn't rule out the possibility. It would be nice (and convenient) if they released Innocent Sin and Eternal Punishment bundled in one package.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Dizzy on July 28, 2009, 07:15:43 AM
I still vote for a female lead. =P

Nanako and Maiko at University. :D

And with how Atlus is releasing Persona 1 on PSP without any changes or cut-outs to the story, I hope that means it's a higher possibility of them giving us Innocent Sin at least, on PSP. That would be dandy. I like the fan translation and all, but I love when Atlus is in control of my wallet. :P The bundling idea of both games would be even better.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Gen Eric Gui on July 28, 2009, 09:24:26 AM
RE: CDFN's spoiler:

Code: [Select]
The whole point of Elizabeth looking for a way to release Minato is supposed to be a representation of the futility of her love for him.  She CAN'T release him unless one of two things happen; A: Humanity gives up their desire for self-destruction and thus robs Nyx of all her power or B: she finds somebody of equal strength of will and equal desire to save humanity that Minato had.  The problem with both of these is that they are impossible obligations to fulfill.  Humanity will -always- be self-destructive, and Minato was the unique savior of the world, so nobody can replace him.  Her quest is fruitless, which is the real beauty of her taking on the quest in the first place, because she knows it's never going to get any results.
And I think they mention that point in particular when you defeat the secret boss on a New Game +.

Quote
I didn't give P4's AI much of a chance, but it might have been so dumb that it pissed me off after like one battle. I found P3's AI to be pretty good, save for the final battle. Then again, I found the main character in P3 to be stronger than 4's, so maybe his supporting cast wasn't as badly needed.

P4's AI is much worse than the one in P3.  In P3 you had all kinds of special AI tasks you could assign, like "Heal others" "Save SP" "All-Out" etc.  In P4 it's been whittled down to like, 3 very broad scripts.  The game WANTS you to use the manual commands, because you can't influence the AI the way you can in P3.

And human Teddie was awesome, what is wrong with you people?
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: erwos on July 28, 2009, 09:56:56 AM
I'm always afraid to discuss what I'd like to see out of S.Links or other non-combat gameplay systems in a next-gen Persona because I know that it's not like the devs are reading this, so I'm doomed to be disappointed.

But, hell, maybe somebody else will take inspiration, so why not?
1. S.Links should have more effects on the story and setting. If I've helped someone out and made the world a better place, you'd expect that to be reflected somewhere or somehow. I don't even think it needs to be a BIG change, just minor improvements (eg, slightly better items in a shop) or different reactions during school events.
2. The romances need to actually mean something. Persona 4 was a huge improvement over Persona 3 in this regard, but the proposed college setting being tossed around could really bump this up to the next level. Note that I'm not asking for crazy drama, just something... more serious.
3. Female MC is a must. The last two Persona games have addressed S.Links from a guy's perspective, and it would be quite interesting to see it from a female's.
4. The school/studying implementation needs some improvement, because it's horribly opaque right now. The easy way to do this would be to just give us a grade "statistic" to let us know how we're doing so far in the semester, or maybe a class rank. A more complex way might involve after-hours study and tutoring sessions that raise S.Links and "study", and let us know how our study partner thinks of our current performance.
5. Completely going for broke here, but S.Links that have multiple paths and endings would be completely awesome.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Gen Eric Gui on July 28, 2009, 10:33:22 AM
Quote
4. The school/studying implementation needs some improvement, because it's horribly opaque right now. The easy way to do this would be to just give us a grade "statistic" to let us know how we're doing so far in the semester, or maybe a class rank. A more complex way might involve after-hours study and tutoring sessions that raise S.Links and "study", and let us know how our study partner thinks of our current performance.

The game assumes that if you did well on the exams, you did well during the semester as well.  Which, if you're going by Japanese school standards, is probably true.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: kyuusei on July 28, 2009, 12:23:02 PM
A Persona 2 port/remake would be awesome. I don't care if it's EP, or IS, or both. Preferably both, alas we ain't that lucky.

As for S-links with multiple endings - in P4, do the S-links that can become serious relationships become different after you make that decision? Again, after only one playthrough I can't tell, and I ain't playing P4 again after I finish this lame True Ending business.

As for the, er, Velvet Room spoiler - well put.
Code: [Select]
Granted, you COULD eventually, maybe find someone with such will and desire to save the world, but they wouldn't have that AND the ability that only he had to seal Nyx away.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Gen Eric Gui on July 28, 2009, 12:28:59 PM
Not really.  Being in a relationship with the girls opens up a handful of scenes, most notably a different ending scene with the girl you're closest to and which Christmas scene/present you get.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: erwos on July 28, 2009, 12:36:33 PM
The game assumes that if you did well on the exams, you did well during the semester as well.  Which, if you're going by Japanese school standards, is probably true.
Well, yeah. The crux of my complaint was more that it's kinda difficult to tell how well you're going to do on the exams - unless I'm missing something, your academics stat doesn't seem to tell the entire story.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: kyuusei on July 28, 2009, 12:51:08 PM
I found that it was just the academic stat and how I answered the questions. Although in Persona 3, I found that if I didn't study lots I got more questions that I hadn't seen in the classroom scenes. I got a couple of those in P4, too. In other words, studying really did make writing the exams easier. =P
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Gen Eric Gui on July 28, 2009, 01:04:42 PM
That's what it is exactly.  Each Quiz is graded based on the # of questions asked that you got right + 1 un-asked question which is answered based on your Academics stat.  If you have a high enough stat, it's answered correctly, and if not, it's wrong.  Generally speaking you want to boost Academics at least one level between each set of tests to be golden.  Also, several of the quizzes don't require you to answer everything correctly to make top marks, I've messed up and had sub-par Academics stats at least twice and still made top of the class anyway because I got all the other questions right.

Also: studying has no effect whatsoever on the questions that are asked.  They are always the same, no matter what you do outside of class.  The thing you are probably noticing is that a lot of the specific questions that get tossed at you are ones that were mentioned offhand during the lectures.  Like, even if the lecture in question was about science, if the teacher broke into a segue about her relationship with her husband, she might actually ask a question about that instead of the pertinent topic.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: MeshGearFox on July 28, 2009, 05:50:09 PM
Quote
You haven't played the game, have you?

I haven't, but I wiki'd it awhile ago and I knew what you were talking about. I just... you know. His teddy bear form is just a lot more amusing. In fanpron.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: kyuusei on July 29, 2009, 03:02:32 PM
Proves that I should have paid attention in class. I did let the MC sleep every once in a while in class in Persona 3, too. Oops.

On another note, for those who have played both, which did you like better: Digital Devil Saga 1 or 2? I've just started 1, am maybe an hour in, and I like it a lot. (I do have 2 sitting in the 'to play' pile, too. =P) Nice change of pace from some bouncy high school kids for sure.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Gen Eric Gui on July 29, 2009, 04:01:11 PM
They sort of go hand in hand, and neither feels complete without the other part.  But given that, I still felt that 2 was a teeny bit better, if only because all of the game systems are polished up and the game feels a little more diverse in it's settings and world.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Lard on July 29, 2009, 08:58:40 PM
I prefer DD1 over DD2
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Lucca on August 02, 2009, 02:16:03 AM
This might be somewhat relevant:

http://hiimdaisy.livejournal.com/26044.html#cutid1 (http://hiimdaisy.livejournal.com/26044.html#cutid1) - Spoilers for the first hour or two of Persona 4.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Eusis on August 02, 2009, 02:53:22 AM
Spoilers for the first hour or two of Persona 4.

Or five! But it's safe to read so long as you've gotten far enough in to actually PLAY the game and not simply be dragged along by the plot.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: CDFN on August 02, 2009, 06:52:54 AM
This might be somewhat relevant:

http://hiimdaisy.livejournal.com/26044.html#cutid1 (http://hiimdaisy.livejournal.com/26044.html#cutid1) - Spoilers for the first hour or two of Persona 4.


OMG, I almost died! That's brilliant!.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Draak on August 02, 2009, 07:12:08 AM
This might be somewhat relevant:

http://hiimdaisy.livejournal.com/26044.html#cutid1 (http://hiimdaisy.livejournal.com/26044.html#cutid1) - Spoilers for the first hour or two of Persona 4.


Haha, hillarious!

"Dude why can't I be 'sensei'?"
"Because you're comic relief!"

I'd love to see a P3 one.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Dincrest on August 02, 2009, 09:43:30 AM
I liked I am thou, thou art me, we're a happy family. 
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Gen Eric Gui on August 02, 2009, 11:14:02 AM
hiimdaisy is one of the most magical people on the entire internets.  I haven't laughed this hard since the last time I read one of her comics.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: kyuusei on August 02, 2009, 11:43:51 AM
This might be somewhat relevant:

http://hiimdaisy.livejournal.com/26044.html#cutid1 (http://hiimdaisy.livejournal.com/26044.html#cutid1) - Spoilers for the first hour or two of Persona 4.


This wins. I liked the description of Yosuke's Persona, Disco Ninja Frog! I'd love to see her do a P3 one.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Draak on August 02, 2009, 02:04:44 PM
I completely forgot about this, but someone translated those Persona 3 4koma:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/14011431@N04/

May contain spoilers.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: kyuusei on August 02, 2009, 02:20:54 PM
I completely forgot about this, but someone translated those Persona 3 4koma:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/14011431@N04/

May contain spoilers.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/14011431@N04/2705889296/sizes/o/in/photostream/

'She probably meant FFX, not FFVIII, Junpei.'

ROFL I love these.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: CDFN on August 02, 2009, 03:23:30 PM
Is anyone here playing imagine? I'm starting today.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Gen Eric Gui on August 02, 2009, 06:27:12 PM
I would play it if my internet wasn't fucking awful.

But I guess that doesn't really help you, does it?
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: MeshGearFox on August 02, 2009, 11:30:55 PM
Hell's the etymology on the spell names anyway? I assumed they were Sanskrit in nature, but agi is the only one I can actually trace to a sanskrit word (that being agni).
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Gen Eric Gui on August 02, 2009, 11:51:25 PM
Doesn't Zan mean force in Japanese?  Or "Air Pressure" or something along those lines?
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: kyuusei on August 03, 2009, 03:33:08 AM
For that matter, why is it Zan in some games, Garu in others? :P

Wow, that's a few questions in a row there.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Dincrest on August 03, 2009, 06:57:31 AM
MegaTen spell names are not only from Sanskrit.  Megido is Hebrew, taken from "Megiddo" which is synonymous with Armageddon.  I think some come from Latin as well.  Wind spells have always been Garu.  Zan is non-elemental and it being "force" makes sense.  Gry is a non-elemental gravity spell I think.  Those were old-school Persona spells.  There were also earth (magna) and water (aqua) spells as well.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Gen Eric Gui on August 03, 2009, 08:24:36 AM
For that matter, why is it Zan in some games, Garu in others? :P

Wow, that's a few questions in a row there.

Dincrest already answered this, but I figured I'd clarify just a teeny bit.

Zan and Garu are not used interchangably in the series.  In Nocturne, there is no "Wind" element, it's just Force, so it's called Zan.  Same with DDS.  In P3 and P4, there was no Force element, just Wind, so they used Garu.  In P2 and earlier, Garu and Zan were actually separate spells, where Garu did Wind damage, and Zan did non-elemental damage.  Another note to point out is that the Zan spells usually have the added effect of shattering petrified enemies, while I'm not aware of a time where Garu spells ever did this.

So yeah, they're supposed to represent different spells.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: kyuusei on August 03, 2009, 12:02:21 PM
Damn. Garu and Zan both looked like wind to me. Even though DS and DDS (...) both call it a force spell, maybe I just thought they were using different terminology. :P

There's earth spells in DDS too. They're called Tera there (for Terra, which makes sense). I wonder where Hama comes from, Mudo sounds... Latin, I'm guessing.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Megidolaon on August 04, 2009, 07:09:51 PM
Dincrest already answered this, but I figured I'd clarify just a teeny bit.

Zan and Garu are not used interchangably in the series.  In Nocturne, there is no "Wind" element, it's just Force, so it's called Zan.  Same with DDS.  In P3 and P4, there was no Force element, just Wind, so they used Garu.  In P2 and earlier, Garu and Zan were actually separate spells, where Garu did Wind damage, and Zan did non-elemental damage.  Another note to point out is that the Zan spells usually have the added effect of shattering petrified enemies, while I'm not aware of a time where Garu spells ever did this.

So yeah, they're supposed to represent different spells.
Zan in P2 has an element. There are enemies weak and immune to it and there are separate almighty spells.
In P2 it was force as pressure/gravity and in Nocturne/DDS it got turned to force/pressure from air, with normal wind animations.
I guess it's because P2 had an absurd amount of elements, especially the 6 different kinds of physical damage.

For P3/4 they probably used Garu again because it's the same sub-series.
I think Garu is probably a bastardization of Gale. And Megido comes from the place where Armageddon will take place, it's somewhere in Israel.

PS:
Quote
http://hiimdaisy.livejournal.com/26044.html#cutid1
This is ****ing BRILLIANT!
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Gen Eric Gui on August 04, 2009, 07:35:52 PM
I still say the Garu/Zan distinction comes from the spell's sub-abilities.  I can't recall a single game where Garu could shatter petrified enemies, or a game where Zan couldn't.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: kyuusei on August 04, 2009, 09:06:37 PM
I think Garu is probably a bastardization of Gale.
Yeah, that's what I was thinking when I played P3.

As for Zan, there are enemies weak/immune to it in DDS as well, and that game has Megido/almighty too.

..and SIX kinds of physical damage?! Jesus. :P
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Gen Eric Gui on August 04, 2009, 10:53:06 PM
That's because Zan is a specific element(Force) in DDS.  We already covered this.  It's called Zan because it has the ability to shatter Petrified enemies, which the Garu spell does not have.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: MeshGearFox on August 04, 2009, 11:12:27 PM
I thought DDS used Garu.

Wait it uses both. Christ. Zan, Garu, Bufu, Agi, Zio, Tera, Mudo, AND Hama?
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Gen Eric Gui on August 04, 2009, 11:14:40 PM
No Garu in DDS, 5 elements for 5 characters(Agi, Bufu, Tera, Zio, Zan).  AFAIK, Garu and Zan were together only in P2, possibly P1.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: kyuusei on August 04, 2009, 11:56:21 PM
it has the ability to shatter Petrified enemies, which the Garu spell does not have.
Yes, you've mentioned this three times already.

I thought DDS used Garu.

Wait it uses both. Christ. Zan, Garu, Bufu, Agi, Zio, Tera, Mudo, AND Hama?

All but Garu, yeah.

I like Hama in DDS, and how instead of being another instant KO spell (a la Persona 3/4 and whatever else) it halves HP for something different. :P
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Gen Eric Gui on August 05, 2009, 01:09:42 AM
The big problem I have with Gravity!Hama is that it has the same chance of working as Death!Hama, but isn't as effective.  In fact, it's only really useful a handful of times in either game.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Aeolus on August 05, 2009, 01:33:03 AM
I thought DDS used Garu.

Wait it uses both. Christ. Zan, Garu, Bufu, Agi, Zio, Tera, Mudo, AND Hama?

What no Foi, Tsu, Wat, Res, Sar, Deban, Rever, Vol, Fanbi, Doran, Hinas, Ryuka, Gen, and so on...?
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Megidolaon on August 05, 2009, 09:15:54 AM
As for Zan, there are enemies weak/immune to it in DDS as well, and that game has Megido/almighty too.

..and SIX kinds of physical damage?! Jesus. :P
Yeah, that's because Zan is not almighty, it was only mistranslated. Gurai is true almighty in Persona 2.

In P2 every weapon (almost every) had a different kind of physical attribute, slashing, piercing, etc. Physical skills had the same attributes.
It was halved in P3, but that still was annoying, especially because sometimes an enemy was immune to a character's element AND physical attacks, so that character could only pass his/her turn.

Finally the got it down to just physical damage in P4 again.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Gen Eric Gui on August 05, 2009, 09:33:19 AM
I thought the 3-way Phys split in P3 was pretty neat.  6 is overdoing it, but Slash/Pierce/Strike is ok.

And your example doesn't really make sense as a specific complaint against P3.  In any other Megaten game, if an enemy resists phys and whatever element your demon uses, you have to pass your turn there too.  The only difference is that usually you can double-up on elements.  At least in P3 most characters had some kind of buff/debuff spell they could use, or could spam medicine if their turns weren't being used otherwise(And besides, more often then not Minato was OHKO'ing everything so the allies were there more as healing tanks and support then as attackers anyway).
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Megidolaon on August 05, 2009, 02:51:09 PM
It's a very valid complaint.
The enemy was immune to every a character could do and it's not like you could do anything about the ai's actions so you could NOT buff/debuff.
In this case the ai would always pass. In fact towards the end the ai almost never used buffs/debuffs even though this was the by far most important time.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Gen Eric Gui on August 05, 2009, 03:34:36 PM
If you set an ally to the Heal/Support command, they'll buff/debuff if nobody needs healing.  I never had to do any debuffing during bosses because I'd just set Akihiko to Heal/Support and he'd take care of it.

You can control your allies very minutely if you understand how the commands work.

And also, all the characters who do damage via spells could get the Break spells at the late-midgame, so nulling elements wasn't a problem afterwards.  So no, the complaint really isn't very valid at all.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Megidolaon on August 05, 2009, 04:50:18 PM
No, Aki never got break (at least I don't remeber him using it and he was in my party since he joined).
Also, changing tactics rarely works cause 90% of the time the MC got his turn, the situation had already changed again and either there was no point in changing tactics or you had to do something completely different anyway.
Not to mention, setting Aki or Junpei to support is BS, as have one support spell and are mainly attackers.
Setting them to support is madness (and Sparta). They'll use exactly one support spell until they start passing.
Considering that often go before the MC (plenty of personae have lower agility), they start battle with like Rakukaja instead of dealing damage, prolonging it and risking it turn into chaos.

Between the round the MC issues new tactics and the next round when he can change them back a billion things can go wrong.
Especially in later dungeons the MC could easily get dizzied, confused or otherwise unable to issue tactics. Then the enemy can easily have his way with you.

It actually all boils down to crappy ai and the inability to change it frequently enough.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Gen Eric Gui on August 05, 2009, 08:20:18 PM
OK, what the fuck.

The argument here was that if the ally cannot deal any damage anyway, what to do with their turn.  If you want them to attack, of course you don't fuck with their commands, you let them attack and do their thing.  If they CAN'T attack, you let them support so they don't waste their turn.

I know for a fact that Koromaru, Yukari, and Mitsuru all got break skills, hence why I said "the characters who do damage through spells".  Aki is a support character, not an offensive one(I mean, shit, half his damn spells are support spells.  The dias and all 3 Ma-undas), so he doesn't need a Break. 

As for Junpei(I don't even know where he comes up in this because I never mentioned him in my post...), there is one battle where you need him on Support(Sleeping Table) because he's the only person with Marakukaja at that point.  But you're right, he's an attacker and you obviously don't want him on support for the most part, but that's why he has Phys specials that deal Pierce and Strike damage.  Junpei actually has 4 elements to attack with, so a situation where he can't actually do anything is very rare.

As for the inability to quickly change tactics, well, if any battle other than a boss battle is taking you more than one turn to clear, you're doing it wrong.  Even purple enemies should be cleared out in a single round(mostly because if you don't they're going to obliterate you).  Since Minato -always- acts first(This is a set feature in the game, your allies CANNOT act before you have a chance to give them orders), you figure out what Minato can do, set your allies commands, and then make your action, and watch as the enemies fall at your feet.  The fact that you have to manually change commands only on Minato's turn means nothing because everything should be dead on that first turn.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: kyuusei on August 05, 2009, 08:33:35 PM
I rarely had issues with AI in Persona 3. When I did, it was against Nyx when he had that shield thing up and you could hit it and die (EVEN WHEN BEING TOLD TO HEAL/SUPPORT WTF), and I bailed all their dumb asses out with Samarecarm. :P You're right, they did use less buff/debuff spells as the game wears on but if you want them to use one so bad, Heal/Support's enough for a turn. If I left them on Heal/Support, it's just because I don't want them to attack. :P

Besides that, the MC can easily have all the Break spells handy. If I really want Junpei involved, I'd cast Fire Break myself, although he did it on his own a lot. (I'm sure that a high enough level Akihiko must have learned Electric Break at SOME point, otherwise that would be kind of ridiculous.

Maybe it's because I juiced my personae with all those damn cards/cups/wands etc but my MC always went first among the party, unless he had some ailment or other. OKAY NEVERMIND Gen covered this apparently :P

 But for most of the time, I let them Act Freely and I rarely, if ever found Persona 3 difficult.

Then again, I didn't get into Tartarus' basement...
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Gen Eric Gui on August 05, 2009, 08:44:10 PM
Honestly, casting Fire Break so that Junpei can cast his Agi spells is kind of pointless because his MAG is so pitifully low, so you're better off saving your MP and just spamming Phys attacks(And let's face it, there isn't a single enemy in the game that resists all three types of Phys damage AND Fire).  If you need Fire damage you want Koromaru along.

As for seeing buffs and debuffs, if you set Akihiko or Aigis to Heal/Support it's all they'll cast unless somebody really needs to be healed.  Akihiko's debuff spamming is -required- for hard mode runs.

(Junpei doesn't have Fire Break, just FYI.  Koromaru has it.  And nobody on your team ever learns Elec Break, because it's really not necessary.  Both Elec casters are multi-purpose units who are often more helpful fulfilling other roles then they are at dealing actual damage.)
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: kyuusei on August 05, 2009, 10:55:23 PM
I'm sure Junpei has cast Fire Break also. In fact, I'm going to take out DDS just to find out. ...Junpei has Fire Break in my save, while Koromaru doesn't. :P

I actually didn't do it all that much, it was in some random battle(s) and I already had him in my party. If I was doing it, it was probably because his physical stuff AND his fire stuff really were both useless for whatever reason. Honestly, it was months ago, so whatever.

Although *who* learns Fire Break might be different in Persona 3 than in Persona 3: FES. Wow, random change much?
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Gen Eric Gui on August 06, 2009, 01:39:32 AM
Yeah, IIRC a few of the characters got minor move makeovers, but that's one I would have thought they had kept the same, since it really doesn't make sense for Junpei to have Fire Break.  In the original, Koro had Fire Break because he was the actual fire mage, while Junpei was more like Heat in DDS, a fighter that could also cast fire spells.

I guess this is what I get for playing both versions.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: kyuusei on August 06, 2009, 03:57:11 AM
I never played P3 before FES came out so I know zero firsthand about the differences between the two, I got that info secondhand :P

Heat's magic sucks. I just let him do physical anything.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Gen Eric Gui on August 06, 2009, 09:34:31 AM
Well, yeah, that's my point.  Junpei, just like Heat, shouldn't be casting spells unless it's to hit a weakness or if the enemy can't be hurt by Phys attacks.  It's just that weakness hitting is more beneficial for Junpei to do because it can lead to an All-Out, so the damage from the spell doesn't really matter.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: kyuusei on August 06, 2009, 10:42:59 AM
I was agreeing with you.

Unfortunately we can't control Junpei completely, but we can control Heat. Hell, I've barely used Heat lately, and have since taught Serph fire spells :P
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Gen Eric Gui on August 06, 2009, 11:06:22 AM
Oh, sorry.  I misunderstood.

Heat being a terrible unit really sucked, because I really liked his character.  DDS1 is so magic focused that you really can't make a case for him past the first half of the game, especially when he's competing for a party spot with Argilla, Gale, and Cielo, all of whom have inifintely superior magic stats(And better stat spreads overall).  At least he's slightly better in DDS2, since they improved Phys/Hunt skill effectiveness in general and you have access to the Jack Frost ring which allows you to null out his weakness without wasting a skill slot.

Also, smart move teaching Serph Fire spells; he's actually the best unit to teach them to because the final Fire Mantra teaches Resist Fire which nulls out his weakness.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: MeshGearFox on August 06, 2009, 06:59:43 PM
Persona 3 did something retarded. It just asked which was the most widespread language.

Obviously, I said English. The correct answer was Chinese.

Chinese DOES have the most speakers, but it's hardly widely used.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Gen Eric Gui on August 06, 2009, 08:07:14 PM
How is the language with the most speakers the least used?  More speakers == more usage.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: MeshGearFox on August 06, 2009, 08:40:28 PM
I think the question was specifically *widespread* usage although I'm not sure. Widespread refers more to prevalence as a second language and geographical sprawl.

Also, the total number of English speakers isn't known, but if you include second language speakers, it's probably higher than total mandarin speakers, slightly.

Anyway, DDs2 is harder than Nocturne fffff. I died a bunch thanks to Ose being an *ass* against my partial translation. In EGG facility, floor... 13.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Madoka on August 06, 2009, 08:55:03 PM
Anyway, DDs2 is harder than Nocturne fffff. I died a bunch thanks to Ose being an *ass* against my partial translation. In EGG facility, floor... 13.

Really? I just started Nocturne last night. I had put it off as I kept hearing that it was the hardest SMT. I finally decided to start it yesterday, as I had finished DDS1/2 and P3/4. This gives me hope that I don't get my ass owned regularly.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: kyuusei on August 06, 2009, 09:02:31 PM
Gen: no worries. He is an interesting character, sure he pisses me off (story-wise.. meaning the writers did their job), wish he was more useful in battle. I try to use everyone but using Serph, Gale and Argilla gives me the most balance so far. Have gotten away with lots of physical attacks too (yes alongside exploiting magic weaknesses), so long as as I'm not using Cielo to do so. His strength stat is atrocious. :P

Mesh, you'd be surprised how many places you'd hear Chinese, even if it's not necessarily in your own area. Chinese also has quite a few dialects too (though  how often do you hear one that's not Cantonese or Mandarin outside China?).

I die plenty in DDS1... I caved and bought a guide for Nocturne, just in case. :P
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: MeshGearFox on August 06, 2009, 09:21:18 PM
Quote
I had put it off as I kept hearing that it was the hardest SMT.

Only on hard mode and even then it's still *fair*.

Also, Chinese is a set of languages, not A language. Mandarin and Catonese are not dialects. They're languages. They're more distinct than Swedish, Norwegian, and Danish are, in any case.

Then again, you know what that old dead Jewish guy said. A language is just a dialect with a military.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Jet16 on August 06, 2009, 09:34:29 PM
Quote
I had put it off as I kept hearing that it was the hardest SMT.

Only on hard mode and even then it's still *fair*.

I can't really speak to this. Nocturne was my first SMT when it came out, so I had no idea how the battle system worked. I picked hard difficulty and didn't really have that much trouble with it. I think Mesh is right in calling it fair.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: kyuusei on August 06, 2009, 09:49:03 PM
And here I did DDS first because a) there's two DDS games and b) people said they're easier than Nocturne. :P

Well whatever. In any case, 'Chinese' covers all of those diale--- languages, and whatever you want to call them, there's still a hell of a lot of speakers as a whole.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: MeshGearFox on August 06, 2009, 09:53:46 PM
Also there are probably harder SMT games anyway. I mean, Persona 1 might fit just because of the lack of savepoints (for the love of god don't play this on a real PSX). SMT1 and 2 are harder in a sense just because their balance isn't so spot-on.

Nocturne's harder in the sense that you don't get a skill bank when you learn skills like ni DDS1/2 so it's THEORETICALLY possible to total create a useless character although the odds of you doing this accidentally are slim.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: kyuusei on August 06, 2009, 09:59:13 PM
Makes sense. I have to admit, the PS1 Persona doesn't really appeal to me all that much, and I'm not about to buy a PSP just for the game. If they do Persona 2, however...

I'd love to give SMT and 2 a shot though. One day.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Eusis on August 06, 2009, 10:10:55 PM
Nocturne's harder in the sense that you don't get a skill bank when you learn skills like ni DDS1/2 so it's THEORETICALLY possible to total create a useless character although the odds of you doing this accidentally are slim.

It is however easily possible, especially in the second game, to have characters with sub-optimal skillsets, so Nocturne's easier in that plot will never quite takes you by surprise, and if you really need something it's a matter of fusing some demons you're not using or summoning those that provide ideal results. DDS is easier in that you just outright learn the skills, but I kinda suspect the Persona games can give you enough of any idea on how to properly fuse demons for an ideal skill set.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: MeshGearFox on August 06, 2009, 10:57:35 PM
I forgot to mention I was playing P3 earlier tonight. Something about that game makes me have a hard time wanting to keep playing it though. Also I have 30 hours clocked on it somehow. At june 22nth. There's nothing I really DISLIKE about P3, other than some of the requests being a bit of a pain, but IDK.

Unrelated, my monadenium flowered. Here's a gratuitously large picture. http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/6742/dscf2746x.jpg
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Madoka on August 06, 2009, 11:08:48 PM
It is however easily possible, especially in the second game, to have characters with sub-optimal skillsets, so Nocturne's easier in that plot will never quite takes you by surprise, and if you really need something it's a matter of fusing some demons you're not using or summoning those that provide ideal results. DDS is easier in that you just outright learn the skills, but I kinda suspect the Persona games can give you enough of any idea on how to properly fuse demons for an ideal skill set.

I had that exact problem when I played DDS2. About halfway through the plot forced me to use my "reserve characters," and I was totally hosed for awhile until I improved them.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: MeshGearFox on August 06, 2009, 11:25:03 PM
Don't non-active members level up (and for that matter nobody is really useless in DDS2 insofar as the EGG facility from what I've seen).
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: kyuusei on August 07, 2009, 12:46:45 AM
I forgot to mention I was playing P3 earlier tonight. Something about that game makes me have a hard time wanting to keep playing it though. Also I have 30 hours clocked on it somehow. At june 22nth. There's nothing I really DISLIKE about P3, other than some of the requests being a bit of a pain, but IDK.

I have the opposite problem.. I keep WANTING to play P3 but I have too much to play already. :P I've put it in a couple times until I remember I haven't beat DDS yet.

Not sure about DDS2, but in DDS1 the non-active members gain Atma Points. I can teach Cielo Ziodyne without having to actually use him, whoot.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Lard on August 07, 2009, 02:35:44 AM
Not sure about DDS2, but in DDS1 the non-active members gain Atma Points. I can teach Cielo Ziodyne without having to actually use him, whoot.

You have to have a certain skill to level up non-active members, though I can't remember the specific name of it.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Aeolus on August 07, 2009, 05:22:55 AM
http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3175473

Well there you have it folks. NOW you can start the knee-jerking over Persona 5's coming.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Lard on August 07, 2009, 10:44:45 AM
I still think they screwed the translation up.

I hope it's not P5 this soon.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: kyuusei on August 07, 2009, 11:07:15 AM
Not sure about DDS2, but in DDS1 the non-active members gain Atma Points. I can teach Cielo Ziodyne without having to actually use him, whoot.

You have to have a certain skill to level up non-active members, though I can't remember the specific name of it.
Shared or mutual karma, maybe? I think it's one/both of those.

Persona 5 rumors again? Of course. I didn't think they'd put it off forever.

I'm amazed at the comments on the page, though. Just because Persona 3 and 4 did so well on the PS2 doesn't mean Persona 5 on the PS3 is The Worst Idea Ever. You can't make PS2 games forever and for that matter the PS3 isn't going to stay ridiculously pricey forever either :P
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Raziel on August 07, 2009, 11:39:10 AM
Not sure about DDS2, but in DDS1 the non-active members gain Atma Points. I can teach Cielo Ziodyne without having to actually use him, whoot.

You have to have a certain skill to level up non-active members, though I can't remember the specific name of it.
Shared or mutual karma, maybe? I think it's one/both of those.

Persona 5 rumors again? Of course. I didn't think they'd put it off forever.

I'm amazed at the comments on the page, though. Just because Persona 3 and 4 did so well on the PS2 doesn't mean Persona 5 on the PS3 is The Worst Idea Ever. You can't make PS2 games forever and for that matter the PS3 isn't going to stay ridiculously pricey forever either :P

People are complaining about it coming too soon, especially when the director of P4 (or was it the character designer) himself admitted that they'd like to focus on other MT series for the time being.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: daschrier on August 07, 2009, 12:25:03 PM
DDS and P3 I loved.

I bought Persona 1 way back in the day when it came out, and never made it very far.

I have DDS2 and Devil Summoner (PS2) unplayed so far.

I've tried Nocturne a few times, but I can never seem to make up my mind on what skills I should keep or forget, so I just get frustrated and quit.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: kyuusei on August 07, 2009, 01:11:19 PM
People are complaining about it coming too soon, especially when the director of P4 (or was it the character designer) himself admitted that they'd like to focus on other MT series for the time being.

They're also complaining about the possible choice of platform being PS3.

As for it being 'too soon', says who? Have they given us a release date? No. For all we know this guy was made producer like a day ago. Wasn't Persona 3 in development for a couple of years? Even if the rumors are true, Persona 5 will be a while. Especially if it'll be on the PS3.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Lard on August 07, 2009, 02:09:23 PM
I'm happy they're doing stuff like Strange Journey and that they're not just piling out Persona games (or any other title/spinoff) ad nauseum.

P4 was a really strong improvement on P3. I don't see how they're going to improve things, other than shiny new graphics at this stage.

I would just prefer some variety.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: CDFN on August 07, 2009, 02:15:37 PM
The game should have been released yesterday as far as I'm concerned. As for the PS2 arguement, do we want yet another one with the same engine? Give me a break. Yeah, lets keep the Persona franchise on the PS2 forever and ever, great idea! Seriously WTF?! Are they asking for this on every other videogame franchise?! No. So why should Persona stay in the past? That game deserves to be on a current gen platform.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: kyuusei on August 07, 2009, 03:05:37 PM
I'm happy they're doing stuff like Strange Journey and that they're not just piling out Persona games (or any other title/spinoff) ad nauseum.

P4 was a really strong improvement on P3. I don't see how they're going to improve things, other than shiny new graphics at this stage.

I would just prefer some variety.


Other than that the gameplay improved, I found P4 to be P3 re-dressed, but with a bit of a weaker story (imo). I did enjoy the game, but if we get a new Persona, I'd rather not to see P3/4 repackaged a third time no matter what system it's on. Give us something at least somewhat fresh, but keep the Social Links.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Eusis on August 07, 2009, 03:51:34 PM
Looking at those comments...

Quote
But I certainly hope not. I am more than confident that the next Persona will be on a Sony console, as that's where fans expect it to be.

Isn't that the rationalization that most people used with many other games that either became multiplatform or were outright exclusives, such as Ace Combat 6 and Star Ocean 4? Doesn't seem to matter much afterall!

Anyways, I'm hoping it's just far off. Not making a sequel would be nuts, but waiting another year or two would be good.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Dizzy on August 07, 2009, 03:55:15 PM
Ugh, the comments people leave on news articles are as retarded as the comments people leave on Youtube vids... :P

And if the change to a new installment's game-play is as big a change as P3/4's was from P1/2's, that would be pretty nice. As some of you mentioned, it being on a next-gen gives it a chance to possibly evolve, and if that's the case, I don't mind it being released any time soon. I'm still rather skeptical about these rumors though, so I won't dwell on it much until I hear/see a release date or something.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Eusis on August 07, 2009, 04:11:16 PM
Ugh, the comments people leave on news articles are as retarded as the comments people leave on Youtube vids... :P

I had some idiot kid send a PM years ago that the white PSP was out in America and that I was an idiot for not knowing this - this was long before the slim PSP was even announced. I haven't bothered with posting comments since seeing that!
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: kyuusei on August 07, 2009, 04:11:52 PM
Looking at those comments...

Quote
But I certainly hope not. I am more than confident that the next Persona will be on a Sony console, as that's where fans expect it to be.

Isn't that the rationalization that most people used with many other games that either became multiplatform or were outright exclusives, such as Ace Combat 6 and Star Ocean 4? Doesn't seem to matter much afterall!

Anyways, I'm hoping it's just far off. Not making a sequel would be nuts, but waiting another year or two would be good.

Or because all Personas AND P1's remake have all been on Sony consoles. That's the only reason I'd expect P5 to be on a Sony system.

Ugh, the comments people leave on news articles are as retarded as the comments people leave on Youtube vids... :P

And if the change to a new installment's game-play is as big a change as P3/4's was from P1/2's, that would be pretty nice. As some of you mentioned, it being on a next-gen gives it a chance to possibly evolve, and if that's the case, I don't mind it being released any time soon. I'm still rather skeptical about these rumors though, so I won't dwell on it much until I hear/see a release date or something.

Honestly I don't even read YouTube comments anymore. :P

Yeah, you're right. If they made P5 on PS3, it'd leave more room for significant change in gameplay. I'd prefer to see it not come out for a while, because if they hacked up a P5 now, it'd likely end up a repackaged P3/4.

I think since P5 is in such demand, there'll be rumors until it eventually gets announced - be it tomorrow or months from now, but that's just me.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: bigdeath on August 07, 2009, 07:30:06 PM
Oh, I want a Persona 5 and I wouldn't mind changing the game play up. Its part of the fun of a new game. Persona 4 was just cashing in on the success of Persona 3, hence not changing the gameplay much. In a good way, of course. PS 4 had a different artwork, great story, and wonderful charaters. PS 5 just needs to keep these key aspects and change the gameplay a bit to keep it fresh and it will be another big hit.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Lard on August 07, 2009, 10:00:14 PM
Oh, I want a Persona 5 and I wouldn't mind changing the game play up. Its part of the fun of a new game. Persona 4 was just cashing in on the success of Persona 3, hence not changing the gameplay much.

Giving you control of all your characters was enough.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: MeshGearFox on August 08, 2009, 10:22:02 AM
Here this is an IRC conversation I had about BoF and SMT. It's like listening to two autistic walls !!

Actually no. Here is the summary.

In BoF1, enemy elemental weaknesses/strengths are completely underused so you generally have on absolutely best attack, which is whatever your best spell at the time is, factored by how much mana you have for casting. This also applies to BoF2, AFAIK. In BoF1, generally speaking, you have BoltX, NovaX, or Comet. The only situational difference here is that that BoltX is multi and NovaX is not. Comet costs too much to be hugely useful iirc.

You also have some absolute worst attacks. Namely, anything that debuffs the enemy in BoF1 since they don't work on bosses and they're not useful to cast on regular enemies (regya la renemees). BoF2 is even retarder about this since the number of useless spells is even higher.

Things are NOT particularly absolute in SMT games. Mazan, for instance, against a group of weak force enemies, is the best possible attack. Less so against a group of one weak force and two other guys. And it's a bad idea against one weak force and two reflect force enemies.

And then you get attacks that randomly damage (Breath, Dance attacks) on top of that, and enemies with weaknesses to status attacks and stuff like mudo.

The fun in strategy comes from FIGURING OUT which course of action the best possible course of action is.

(This also requires that the best possible course of actions is actually better. In FFVIII, for instance, summoning generally is not the best possible thing you can do, but it'll still pretty much wipe out most random encounters in a single turn).
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: mizuki_no_beatdown on August 08, 2009, 06:06:02 PM
Hmmm... Digital Devil Saga is cheap again at Amazon! I finally got me a copy.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: kyuusei on August 08, 2009, 06:08:23 PM
Hmmm... Digital Devil Saga is cheap again at Amazon! I finally got me a copy.
Good idea. Get the second if it's on sale too - or when it goes on sale. They really are two halves of a whole as I'm in the process of finding out.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Madoka on August 08, 2009, 07:58:00 PM
Hmmm... Digital Devil Saga is cheap again at Amazon! I finally got me a copy.
Is this just the game or that special edition that came out years ago with the box for both games?
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Gen Eric Gui on August 08, 2009, 08:56:17 PM
I would assume it's the reprint which is just the game disc and the standard case.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Eusis on August 08, 2009, 09:59:50 PM
I would assume it's the reprint which is just the game disc and the standard case.

And the manual! But yeah, just standard packaging as far as I know, no box to score it all in.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Lard on August 08, 2009, 10:30:01 PM
Hmmm... Digital Devil Saga is cheap again at Amazon! I finally got me a copy.
Good idea. Get the second if it's on sale too - or when it goes on sale. They really are two halves of a whole as I'm in the process of finding out.

I have tried to finish the second game three times and every time I get near the end, something fucks up and I lose my game :(
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Madoka on August 09, 2009, 01:16:39 AM
I have tried to finish the second game three times and every time I get near the end, something fucks up and I lose my game :(

That sucks. IIRC, there is a pretty epic final boss battle at the end of DDS2.

Thanks for the  info above. Someone posted a picture of the back of the slipcase from the boxset on Amazon, making me confused about the actual product.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: MeshGearFox on August 09, 2009, 02:50:40 AM
Some eatfag in the EGG research facility keeps harshing the fuck out of my grills. How do I beat him?
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: jj984jj on August 09, 2009, 06:45:57 AM
New Strange Journey images:
http://www.famitsu.com/game/coming/1226566_1407.html (http://www.famitsu.com/game/coming/1226566_1407.html)
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Madoka on August 11, 2009, 12:49:27 AM
MGF, are you taking about Yaksa Abaddon?

Well, things were going well in Nocturne until the Matador boss in the Great Underpass of Ginza. Serious ownage occured. Off to find some force immune demons.... And I need to get Media....
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Extwin on August 11, 2009, 12:23:42 PM
I am going to have to actually finish Nocturne now that my summer classes are over and I have some time :) I 'm currently running around the tower of kagusuchi leveling so I can fuse metatron/beelz for the satan boss fight and the true demon ending :)
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: kyuusei on August 11, 2009, 12:39:04 PM
Ah, Nocturne. I hear there are 6 endings or so? I'm hoping to beat it before my fall semester of DOOM begins - which is still a month away, heh.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: MeshGearFox on August 12, 2009, 03:49:30 PM
America need some SMT: N dungeon-based maps for UT or Quake 2 or something, especially the damn Diet Building. That would be so loving sweet.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Lord Dorkus on August 13, 2009, 09:27:06 AM
http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=24787
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: erwos on August 13, 2009, 10:24:40 AM
Sounds like it'll be the definitive version of Persona 1.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: CDFN on August 13, 2009, 01:41:36 PM
Sounds like it'll be the definitive version of Persona 1.

Definitely, can't wait. Is the snow queen really that hard?
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: daschrier on August 13, 2009, 02:11:26 PM
Is the snow queen quest a post game dungeon, or a side quest available before the end of the game?
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Dincrest on August 13, 2009, 02:18:27 PM
Snow Queen Quest is an alternate story path.  It must be accessed prior to the party going to Sebec and there are a specific set of tasks to do to access it.  The two storylines in Persona are Sebec and Snow Queen. 

As for the difficulty, when I used to mod a MegaTen forum quite a few people played the Japanese Playstation import and they said some parts like Thanatos Tower were insanely sadistic.  But this is older-school MegaTen we're talking about. 

So long as I still get my
Code: [Select]
Toro monster in full phallic splendor I won't cry foul:P
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: MeshGearFox on August 13, 2009, 04:08:33 PM
The dungeon designs were the only thing I wasn't that keen on about P1, and honestly, since they didn't bother changing them up in the remake, I can't imagine Snow Queen being particularly pleasant to go through, especially since P1 PSP is going back to the Japanese encounter rates.

Also from my understanding, Snow Queen's story delves* into the lives of a bunch of side-characters, whereas the Sebec storyline addresses why the town just turned into a jack-in-the-box house of dongs and hallways.

* why did i just use this word oh god
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: kyuusei on August 13, 2009, 07:50:47 PM
God damn Persona remake. It's making me wish, for the first time ever, that I had a PSP.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: daschrier on August 13, 2009, 09:14:30 PM
Just picked up Persona 4...after 1 hour I feel more connected to the game world than most RPG's by games end. I think that's why these games are so great.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: bigdeath on August 14, 2009, 02:41:10 PM
Oh, yes. I was worried by the pop style of Persona 4 but I grew to love it more than Persona 3.

Especially the music. I love the boss battle music "I'll Face Myself"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wsWZzkNMPL4&feature=related

Even the town themes are fantastic, like Heartbeat, Heartbreak:

"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_BY2bpqD8A&feature=related"

Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: CDFN on August 14, 2009, 05:01:46 PM
P4´s soundtrack is great, I listen to it a lot. The tracks with vocals sound really good thanks to the way they were remixed for the ost. I love
Code: [Select]
nanako's dungeon theme.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Gen Eric Gui on August 14, 2009, 05:11:42 PM
Ugh, I can't stand that song.  I cannot fathom why so many people like it.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: kyuusei on August 14, 2009, 05:12:09 PM
P4´s soundtrack is great, I listen to it a lot. The tracks with vocals sound really good thanks to the way they were remixed for the ost. I love
Code: [Select]
nanako's dungeon theme.

Love that theme. I like both P3 and 4's music, but probably 3 more. I find that 3's music gets a lot of hate, but to me it suits the game's setting/environment. Same with 4's.

It's really easily to feel connected to the game worlds in P3 and 4 right away, considering you have to take the main character through everyday of his normal life, it's more personal than just wandering around world maps. Or something.

By the way, would I sound insane if I said I'm enjoying Digital Devil Saga somewhat more than the Persona games?
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: bigdeath on August 14, 2009, 05:20:32 PM
Which theme is 
Code: [Select]
nanako's again? A link?
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Lucca on August 14, 2009, 07:47:40 PM
Which theme is 
Code: [Select]
nanako's again? A link?

Code: [Select]
Nanako's theme is 'Heaven' on the OST
Code talk is fun, right? Move along, move along.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: bigdeath on August 14, 2009, 08:04:03 PM
Oh yeah, that theme. Sounds like a hip jazz song.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Dincrest on August 14, 2009, 08:05:06 PM
Lies!  Nanako's theme is "Everyday's great at your Junes." 
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Alisha on August 14, 2009, 08:19:12 PM
maybe you are thinking of heaven? wich is a great song by the way.

oops forgot you cant embed here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=463Us587Z9o
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: bigdeath on August 14, 2009, 11:50:03 PM
Indeed, heaven is the song. Thanks, guys.

Fog, though, has to be my favorite song. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3gEKpGD4D4&feature=related

Such great battlte music.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Raziel on August 15, 2009, 01:24:18 AM
I prefer The Almighty over Mist. It's more drawn out and melancholic, and I like that. :)

But when it comes to Megami Tensei's best music, Megami Ibunroku Persona (the album Persona Be Your True Mind) and Shin Megami Tensei III Nocturne + maniax take the cake.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Dincrest on August 15, 2009, 06:08:49 AM
But when it comes to Megami Tensei's best music, Megami Ibunroku Persona (the album Persona Be Your True Mind).

Agreed 100%.  I reviewed two versions of the MIP soundtrack and enjoyed every track. 
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: CDFN on August 15, 2009, 11:32:26 AM
Lies!  Nanako's theme is "Everyday's great at your Junes." 

Was that a weird way of saying: "Stop the code talk"?
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Dincrest on August 15, 2009, 12:35:05 PM
No, it was just me being a sillyhead jackass.  I forgot to put the :P smiley next to it to show I was just playin.'
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Gen Eric Gui on August 15, 2009, 05:37:37 PM
No, you're right.  It pretty much is her theme song.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: CDFN on August 16, 2009, 06:44:03 PM
Damn, I let Haru die and now my only option is Yuzu's route. I had no idea that letting her die had such a huge impact. I missed that fight by accident.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Lucca on August 16, 2009, 10:31:03 PM
Damn, I let Haru die and now my only option is Yuzu's route. I had no idea that letting her die had such a huge impact. I missed that fight by accident.


At least Yuzu's route unlocks some pretty good demons.

But yeah, in order to really get all of the endings, you have to pretty much have everyone live. Hence SURVIVAL.

I got lucky on my first playthrough -- no one died, though one character came pretty close. I stumbled on saving him/her purely on accident.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Madoka on August 17, 2009, 12:08:39 AM
So I working my way through Nocturne, and I'm trying to figure out what benefits, if any, you get for maxing a magatama.

If you level up and the magatama is not goint to be mastered, you sometimes get a free heal or stat increase. I've never noticed either when mastering a magatama. I just thought that you'd get some guaranteed bonus for your hard work (besides that title change in the upper left).
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Gen Eric Gui on August 17, 2009, 01:31:03 AM
Title change is the only thing you get, IIRC.  I mean, the final skill from a Magatama is usually really powerful, do you -need- anything else?  Also, watch out, sometimes Magatamas will curse you on level up instead of doing something helpful, this tends to happen more often when you use the Death and Status-ailment oriented Magatamas, and happens a LOT more often if you're on Hard mode.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: MeshGearFox on August 17, 2009, 01:39:56 AM
Curses can be useful.

Hell if I can remember what for, though.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Raziel on August 17, 2009, 02:47:50 AM
Curses can be useful.

Hell if I can remember what for, though.

Special fusions, I guess?
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Gen Eric Gui on August 17, 2009, 09:23:42 AM
The guides on GameFAQs say that being cursed leads to special fusions, but I've never heard of any demons that can't be fused while you're normal.  Being cursed is just a bad status, I'm pretty sure.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Raziel on August 17, 2009, 02:02:57 PM
It certainly affects something, as the music is different in the Cathedral of Shadows when you are cursed.

Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: CDFN on August 17, 2009, 06:02:35 PM
OK, I just tried the fight in Yuzu's route where you
Code: [Select]
try to break out of the lockdown and seriously, are you supposed to be able to win that? Once
Code: [Select]
Izuna and Amane joined the party I was so overwhelmed that major asskicking doesn't even begin to describe it. WTF?!
That's probably the toughest mandatory fight I've ever seen.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: CDFN on August 17, 2009, 06:47:37 PM
Yuzu's route is actually supposed to be the best option for the first playthrough because it's the easiest and quickest and the others become easier on new game + so it's a win/win situation, it also unlocks most of the new game + bonuses. But the last fight (the one I just mentioned) is fucking hard, probably trying to make up for the fact that the route is a lot shorter with only one major final battle as opposed to the succession of boss fights found in other routes.
Well the reinforcements caught me off-guard, now I know the right approach.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Jet16 on August 18, 2009, 02:00:44 AM
http://www.siliconera.com/2009/08/17/persona-3-portable-has-a-female-protagonist/

Persona 3 Portable? This is news to me. I would call them out for milking the Persona franchise further, but if they keep it up with releasing other games like Devil Summoner 2, Devil Survivor and Strange Journey, I don't care how they pay the bills as long as they keep the quality up. Though a mainline SMT title would definitely scratch an itch I've been having for quite some time. I should go play Nocturne sometime soon.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Lucca on August 18, 2009, 02:17:17 AM
http://www.siliconera.com/2009/08/17/persona-3-portable-has-a-female-protagonist/

Persona 3 Portable? This is news to me. I would call them out for milking the Persona franchise further, but if they keep it up with releasing other games like Devil Summoner 2, Devil Survivor and Strange Journey, I don't care how they pay the bills as long as they keep the quality up. Though a mainline SMT title would definitely scratch an itch I've been having for quite some time. I should go play Nocturne sometime soon.

Wait, wait, wait, FEMALE protagonist?

How does that even WORK? All the social links that are romantic are just BLOWN THROUGH THE WINDOW.

Unless Chihiro blossoms into a young man or something. Or the protagonist swings towards the ladies. That'd actually be awesome, honestly.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: jello44 on August 18, 2009, 02:27:36 AM
http://www.siliconera.com/2009/08/17/persona-3-portable-has-a-female-protagonist/

Persona 3 Portable? This is news to me. I would call them out for milking the Persona franchise further, but if they keep it up with releasing other games like Devil Summoner 2, Devil Survivor and Strange Journey, I don't care how they pay the bills as long as they keep the quality up. Though a mainline SMT title would definitely scratch an itch I've been having for quite some time. I should go play Nocturne sometime soon.

Wait, wait, wait, FEMALE protagonist?

How does that even WORK? All the social links that are romantic are just BLOWN THROUGH THE WINDOW.

Unless Chihiro blossoms into a young man or something. Or the protagonist swings towards the ladies. That'd actually be awesome, honestly.

Genderswaps ho!

I can imagine Junepi as a girl grabbing the protagonist's boobs...
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: kyuusei on August 18, 2009, 02:34:57 AM
How the FUCK are they gonna work that? Is it a prequel, another Answer, what?

And damnit they really are milking Persona. I love the games but I've sort of grown to love the DDS/Nocturne type more agh.

..and I still want it. DAMNIT, I NEED A PSP.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: bigdeath on August 18, 2009, 03:21:42 AM
They made Orpheus a girl. Wait, could we get lesbian romances! Or more likely they'll chance the social links so you romance guys. Ewww.

I may need to get a PSP. I hope they allow you to control the whole party in this port if they are going to do something so drastic as to change the MC sex.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: erwos on August 18, 2009, 08:51:45 AM
Are we sure that this is actually Persona 3 and not Persona 3 Gaiden or something? I don't mind if it's the latter, honestly.

I'm having a lot of trouble understanding how you could change the MC's gender in a game where the S.Links are so oriented around it.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: kyuusei on August 18, 2009, 12:32:48 PM
Are we sure that this is actually Persona 3 and not Persona 3 Gaiden or something? I don't mind if it's the latter, honestly.

I'm having a lot of trouble understanding how you could change the MC's gender in a game where the S.Links are so oriented around it.
That's what I've been trying to figure out. Either it's a gaiden or prequel or SOMETHING, or they're gonna have to do quite a bit of re-writing for S-links.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: CDFN on August 20, 2009, 05:46:35 PM
So after a lot of grinding and thinking up a strategy I gave the battle another shot and won. But they sure owned me hard on the first try lol.
So if you're going Yuzu's route brace yourself for the bad ending (though it's still pretty cool) though it's also the shortest way to a new game + which will help you beat the toughest routes a lot faster than on a first playthrough. It's probably the least frustrating way to do things if you want to see all the endings.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: kyuusei on August 20, 2009, 07:00:16 PM
The best route (especially for the first time through) is Haru's isn't it? Wait.. does she HAVE a route? I wouldn't know, I haven't beaten the game yet. :P

I haven't touched the game in a month. :( I've been slightly sidetracked by DDS...
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Gen Eric Gui on August 21, 2009, 02:17:03 AM
I wrote a guide (http://www.destructoid.com/blogs/Gen+Eric+Gui/public-service-announcement-how-to-control-your-allies-actions-in-battle-in-persona-3-145260.phtml) on how to use the command menu in P3.  Now I don't want to hear any more whining about not being able to control your allies actions!
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: bigdeath on August 21, 2009, 03:30:01 AM
Bah, why bother with that non-sense when you can just let us control the character.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Gen Eric Gui on August 21, 2009, 08:24:45 AM
You CAN control the character!  And the main reason for the system was to give the illusion that you're a team of friends fighting, not a bunch of robots following the leader.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: kyuusei on August 21, 2009, 12:32:52 PM
How hard can it be to 'control' the characters' actions in P3/P3 FES? I didn't need to very often, except maybe Mitsuru, but I imagine in Hard you might need to do it more. Even still, just read the commands, know what the character's good at/enemy's weaknesses etc and whatever else the situation is.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Gen Eric Gui on August 21, 2009, 01:37:12 PM
Hard mode requires a lot more finesse in controlling your characters.  You really need to manage turn order and when enemies are down/getting up/etc.  Buffs and debuffs are also a lot more important, so being able to reliably get your characters to use them is important.

But yeah, my point is that it's -not- hard to control your allies in the game, but all I've been hearing around the internet lately is I'M GLAD THEY'RE IMPLEMENTING DIRECT CONTROL, NOT BEING ABLE TO CONTROL MY ALLIES WAS THE WORST PART OF P3 and I'm just getting sick of it.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: CDFN on August 21, 2009, 01:47:21 PM
The best route (especially for the first time through) is Haru's isn't it? Wait.. does she HAVE a route? I wouldn't know, I haven't beaten the game yet. :P

I haven't touched the game in a month. :( I've been slightly sidetracked by DDS...

Nope, though if you let her die (like me) the only route you'll be able to choose is Yuzu's.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Gen Eric Gui on August 21, 2009, 03:08:17 PM
Uh, Haru has a route.  I should know, I did her route first.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: bigdeath on August 21, 2009, 04:19:28 PM
Hard mode requires a lot more finesse in controlling your characters.  You really need to manage turn order and when enemies are down/getting up/etc.  Buffs and debuffs are also a lot more important, so being able to reliably get your characters to use them is important.

But yeah, my point is that it's -not- hard to control your allies in the game, but all I've been hearing around the internet lately is I'M GLAD THEY'RE IMPLEMENTING DIRECT CONTROL, NOT BEING ABLE TO CONTROL MY ALLIES WAS THE WORST PART OF P3 and I'm just getting sick of it.

Its still a pain in the ass way to have control over you characters. I much prefer having direct control as do many others. I don't want to have to switch those stupid commands when I can just select for myself what to use. Its like saying FF12 allowed you to control your characters with the gambit system......its not the same.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Gen Eric Gui on August 21, 2009, 05:05:42 PM
Now Gambits were an awful control system.  Way too much hassle to deal with and change up.  I think P3's system struck just the right balance, the auto-AI commands made everything much faster and smoother, and the commands themselves were well-made enough that they covered all the bases you needed without making you have to go armpit deep into menus to activate them.

I mean, it's fine if you prefer manual commands, but there's a difference between saying "I prefer this method" and saying "this other method doesn't work".
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: bigdeath on August 21, 2009, 05:11:42 PM
I never said it didn't work but fact is the AI wasn't perfect so I'd want to switch to direct commands. P4 was great because it allows both. If you knew how to fight an enemy already then you could just set the AI to auto-pilot but against new enemies I want control and in boss fights I want control.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: kyuusei on August 21, 2009, 05:12:24 PM
Well to me, someone already said this but not having direct control over the others made me feel more like the other characters were individuals, and the main character felt more like... you.

I've always been fine with P3's AI but P4's was substantially worse. Direct command was more uh, needed.

Of course... Direct control is proooobably preferable if I'm going to try Maniacs in P3P, heh.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Gen Eric Gui on August 21, 2009, 05:34:28 PM
Yeah, P4's AI control was balls awful.  You only had three settings, Full Attack, Heal, and Act Freely.  The whole thing that made P3's version great was all the flexibility in the options.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: MeshGearFox on August 21, 2009, 06:45:22 PM
Quote
Well to me, someone already said this but not having direct control over the others made me feel more like the other characters were individuals, and the main character felt more like... you.

That was probably me.

Yeah, P3's AI was a bit dumb at times, but here's the thing. Artificial stupidity can be endearing. And the fact that you don't control them and that they chatter in battle sort of addresses the "Character loses all personality as soon as they join your party" syndrome you see in a lot of JRPGs.

And besides. From a story perspective why WOULD Junpei act particularly smart in battle?

Also P3 was fairly easy as far as SMT games go. If you were ever at a point where your party members would get you killed by either doing or failing to do something, you probably weren't approaching whatever battle you were at right. The MC has like, a dozen persona's available to him. That's plenty of room to cover your bases.

Quote
Now Gambits were an awful control system.  Way too much hassle to deal with and change up

Also the whole buying/finding options. It's a AI programming system. They tried to make it into more of a strictly gameplay feature than it had any right to be. It's like disallowing the player from accessing their players stats until they buy the appropriate menu command in a shop.

That and FFXII's boss battles don't have anywhere near the level of creativity FFX's had and I think the gambit system and the battle system are partly to blame. I mean, just for comparison, since I just did them, you can't really do that claw shrimp battle or Yunalesca in ATB because it'd just be unmanagable for one thing and especially with FFXII's slightly more chaotic flavor of ATB, but you couldn't do them at ALL with gambits since you're micromanaging the hell out of your turns and you just can't automate that.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: CDFN on August 21, 2009, 06:57:47 PM
Uh, Haru has a route.  I should know, I did her route first.

Didn't know about that one.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: kyuusei on August 21, 2009, 11:43:13 PM
Quote
And besides. From a story perspective why WOULD Junpei act particularly smart in battle?
See, that's what I was thinking. :P Especially when he first joins.

Quote
Also P3 was fairly easy as far as SMT games go. If you were ever at a point where your party members would get you killed by either doing or failing to do something, you probably weren't approaching whatever battle you were at right. The MC has like, a dozen persona's available to him. That's plenty of room to cover your bases.
I've now played six MegaTen titles, and yeah, P3 was by far the easiest. P4 follows, and would more closely if it weren't for a couple of really tough bosses.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Eusis on August 22, 2009, 01:36:19 AM
Yeah, P4's AI control was balls awful.  You only had three settings, Full Attack, Heal, and Act Freely.  The whole thing that made P3's version great was all the flexibility in the options.

Ugh, why would they scrap all of their work from P3 now? It's nice to have the option to manually control, but if I just want to get through battles without worrying too much it's nice to have the appropriate options too. Unlocking them WAS kind of silly in P3 though, but not as much as unlocking new gambits in FFXII.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Lucca on August 22, 2009, 03:18:27 AM
Uh, Haru has a route.  I should know, I did her route first.

Not true!

Code: [Select]
The route you're thinking of is Gins but Haru plays a key part in it. I know this because I slogged through it first, which was kind of a mistake, but hey! I won! It's confusing though because Gin and Haru appear on the opening screen once you win, but the person you talk to to star the route is Gin, so it's Gin's route.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: CDFN on August 22, 2009, 01:45:45 PM
Uh, Haru has a route.  I should know, I did her route first.

Not true!

Code: [Select]
The route you're thinking of is Gins but Haru plays a key part in it. I know this because I slogged through it first, which was kind of a mistake, but hey! I won! It's confusing though because Gin and Haru appear on the opening screen once you win, but the person you talk to to star the route is Gin, so it's Gin's route.


Thougt so.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Gen Eric Gui on August 22, 2009, 06:35:21 PM
@Lucca:

You're nitpicking.  We're both right, because the route in question heavily involves both characters, and both of them show up on the title screen.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Lucca on August 22, 2009, 06:46:08 PM
@Lucca:

You're nitpicking.  We're both right, because the route in question heavily involves both characters, and both of them show up on the title screen.

Er, no I'm not. More like you are. If I use your logic then I could say...oh, that Astruo's route is also Nayoa's route because it heavily involves him. Or that Gin/Haru's route is also Aname's route because she's heavily featured in it. Might as well throw Izuma in there too since she's a part of it.

Every walkthrough says it's Gin's route. The fact that Haru shows up in the title screen is just a side goodie. Seriously, sometimes I get the impression that you want to debate things to death. But if you wanna say we're both right, fine. Okay. It's kinda dumb to argue about.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: bigdeath on August 22, 2009, 06:47:15 PM
Oh damn, Lucca lays down the law....


I think I'm going to play persona 4....again.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Lucca on August 22, 2009, 06:49:24 PM
Oh damn, Lucca lays down the law....


I think I'm going to play persona 4....again.

Represent, bioch! ;)

Seriously though I'm done playing debate queen. I'd play Persona 4 but my friend in Oregon has my copy and I probably won't see it for another year. I should play the answer though. Hmmmm.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: bigdeath on August 22, 2009, 06:59:00 PM
With really long JRPGs (which is apparently all I play), I sort of get borded with it halfway through so I need to take a break and play another JRPG. If that makes any god damn sense. Currently playing VP2, think I'll finish ch 4 since its short then take a break by playing Persona 4 expert. I'll bitch about the first special boss when I get to that pain in the ass. Hopefuly I can get a Persona w/ Physical res/nul/reflect......Hello gamefaq.


The new Mana Khemia is coming out soon so that will be a third game.....god, its hard being a geeky loser, so much to do yet so little time.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Gen Eric Gui on August 22, 2009, 07:02:15 PM
Everybody I've ever talked to calls it the Haru route or the Gin/Haru route.  Gin barely even has anything to do with the story!

Calling it the Gin route is like calling the Musubi ending of Nocturne the "Noah" ending because he's kind of sort of involved.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: bigdeath on August 22, 2009, 07:09:49 PM
Gen Eric Gui, some words of advice.

The wise man always lets the ladies win arguments. No good can come from arguing with a woman.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Lucca on August 22, 2009, 07:58:25 PM
Everybody I've ever talked to calls it the Haru route or the Gin/Haru route.  Gin barely even has anything to do with the story!

Calling it the Gin route is like calling the Musubi ending of Nocturne the "Noah" ending because he's kind of sort of involved.

Oh wow just...at this point...yanno what? I can just tell when something is gonna delve in pointlessness, so believe what you want.


A wise women knows when a guy won't take no for an answer, and a wise women doesn't get her hands dirty.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: kyuusei on August 22, 2009, 08:02:50 PM
Sometimes I read these boards and think some people like to argue just for the sake of arguing.

Let's just call it Gin/Haru's route, so that everybody knows what the fuck everybody's talking about, and move on!

I nabbed a Nocturne guide off eBay a couple weeks ago. It finally showed up in the mail (eChecks suck) and... God, this thing is huge.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: bigdeath on August 22, 2009, 08:04:58 PM
A wise women knows when a guy won't take no for an answer, and a wise women doesn't get her hands dirty.

But....I like a girl that isn't afraid to get dirty......wait, what are we talking about again?

Quote
I nabbed a Nocturne guide off eBay a couple weeks ago.

Dude, its called gamefaq. Get help for free. FREE!
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Lucca on August 22, 2009, 08:07:22 PM
Sometimes I read these boards and think some people like to argue just for the sake of arguing.

Thank you! That's kinda what I was getting at but I used a bullshit metaphor wrapped in dirty hands.

Wait, what was I talking about again? :D

Oh, right.

I looked up Nocturne on amazon today and it's running for 60 DOLLARS. What! Oh, Atlus and your limited press runs!
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: kyuusei on August 22, 2009, 08:14:11 PM
I really don't live off of GameFAQs like some people like to. I find guides (depending on the maker) more convenient for me for some games. I don't care if they ain't free.

Lucca - yeah, it can be expensive. But there were some reprints a couple months ago - I managed to get one off Amazon for $30US plus shipping. I'd keep looking, it might show up again.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Madoka on August 22, 2009, 08:57:10 PM
I nabbed a Nocturne guide off eBay a couple weeks ago. It finally showed up in the mail (eChecks suck) and... God, this thing is huge.

Shit, I want one of those, but every one I've seen was ridiculously expensive.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Gen Eric Gui on August 22, 2009, 09:52:54 PM
Quote
Let's just call it Gin/Haru's route, so that everybody knows what the fuck everybody's talking about, and move on!

That's what I said, but Lucca insisted on continuing the argument.  And I get yelled at for instigating things!  Story of my life, I tell ya.

As for the Nocturne guide, assuming you guys are talking about the Doublejump Books one, you can download it from their site for a nominal fee.  It's not as nice as having the physical copy, but it's better then having nothing, especially with the GameFAQs guides being notoriously incomplete for Nocturne.

Neat fact: The guy who owns Doublejump Books gave me a printer's copy of the Nocturne guide's poster as a birthday present.  It is the most sweet thing ever.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: bigdeath on August 22, 2009, 10:14:50 PM
Didn't I say its pointless to argue with a woman? Didn't I?
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: kyuusei on August 23, 2009, 03:27:40 AM
As for the Nocturne guide, assuming you guys are talking about the Doublejump Books one, you can download it from their site for a nominal fee.  It's not as nice as having the physical copy, but it's better then having nothing, especially with the GameFAQs guides being notoriously incomplete for Nocturne.

Neat fact: The guy who owns Doublejump Books gave me a printer's copy of the Nocturne guide's poster as a birthday present.  It is the most sweet thing ever.

Yeah. I like DJ's guides, they're pretty complete. I have the P4 one and always wanted a P3 one. I'm perhaps too big of a fan for physical guides, but only when they're as good as these ones. Mine is used, because the brand new ones are ridiculously expensive, but still in really good condition. The bookmarks and poster were even still in it.

Ha. At E3 04, I left Atlus' booth with a big ol' SMT:N Maniacs poster and some Atlus pins and postcards. Not sure where some of those are, though the poster remains on my wall.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Gen Eric Gui on August 23, 2009, 11:30:11 AM
I have like 8-9 mint condition P3 guides.  I'm legally unable to sell them, so I've been trying to figure out ways to get rid of them.  Watch Destructoid, I'll probably have a contest for it.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: kyuusei on August 23, 2009, 01:01:22 PM
You can't sell them? That's too bad, since you'd be able to make decent money from them.

I may do just that. Where's Destructoid at again?
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Sketch on August 23, 2009, 07:08:38 PM
http://www.destructoid.com/

<3
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: bigdeath on August 25, 2009, 09:12:12 PM
Well, playing through Persona 4 and it took me 3 and half hours to get to the castle. God, such a long ass intro.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: kyuusei on August 25, 2009, 10:53:29 PM
Hah yeah, P4's slow-ass start was one of my big gripes about the game.

I preferred how P3 threw you into the mix pretty instantly, almost.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Gen Eric Gui on August 25, 2009, 11:06:14 PM
Just because you weren't fighting doesn't mean it was "intro".  I've always considered the moment you have control over your character to be the end of the intro.

That said, P4 does have one of the longest setups I've seen in a while.  But at least it was interesting, unlike the last long setup period I played through (Dragon Quest 7 OH GOD JESUS WHAT)
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: kyuusei on August 25, 2009, 11:27:00 PM
I don't really call it an intro up until that point either. P4's did start out interesting but it dragged here and there too.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: bigdeath on August 25, 2009, 11:39:09 PM
I love persona 4's intro, it really develops  the characters. Still, damn.....never realised how long it was.

Though I've already reheard some memorable lines that I love such as:

"You might end up somewhere I couldn't find you. Then you'd be doooomed!"

ROFL, I love Teddie.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: bigdeath on August 26, 2009, 03:49:21 AM
Question. In Persona 4, what days are the shops on sell, if any?
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: kyuusei on August 26, 2009, 03:53:32 AM
Rainy days, the item place has a sale. I don't think the weapons store does anything like that though.

Hmm, I must ask. In DDS2. There's a room before you fight Megananda. There's things on the sides where I imagine they're optional bosses but they won't let me fight them. I'm guessing Satan and..someone?
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Gen Eric Gui on August 26, 2009, 10:09:17 AM
Nope.  Vishnu and Shiva.  To enter the doors you need to get specific item drops from Parvati and...that monkey guy in the previous floors.  Just keep fighting them and you'll eventually get the drops.  Beating Vishnu and Shiva gets you some cool powers, like a Ring that gives you an extra press turn and a couple extra mantras with ultra skills.

And yeah, the weapon shop in P4 doesn't have sales.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Raziel on August 26, 2009, 10:36:28 AM
Is
Code: [Select]
Demifiend the only worthless optional battle in DDS1?
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Gen Eric Gui on August 26, 2009, 11:44:13 AM
If by "worthless" you mean you don't really get anything directly in DDS1 for beating him, then yes, he's the only worthless boss.

You do get a unique Chakra Ring in DDS2 if you beat him, though.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Raziel on August 26, 2009, 12:34:43 PM
If by "worthless" you mean you don't really get anything directly in DDS1 for beating him, then yes, he's the only worthless boss.

You do get a unique Chakra Ring in DDS2 if you beat him, though.

Thanks for the tip. I don't think he's worth the trouble (if he is the candidate for the title of "the hardest JRPG boss ever").

By the way, Arahabakis are evil! Ironically they're one of the more useful demons in Nocturne for the good part of the game, and in DDS1 you can taste the pain you once inflicted :).
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Gen Eric Gui on August 26, 2009, 12:43:01 PM
Cocytus is your friend.  That skill decimates Arihabakis.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: kyuusei on August 26, 2009, 01:16:18 PM
Is
Code: [Select]
Demifiend the only worthless optional battle in DDS1?
Huh, I had no idea he was in DDS1 OR 2. Sweeeet.

I'm gonna have to replay DDS1 and 2, I missed tons of secret bosses and mantras and stuff.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Gen Eric Gui on August 26, 2009, 03:05:47 PM
You can only fight him on a New Game + in DDS1.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: bigdeath on August 27, 2009, 11:03:58 AM
Beat Yukiko's Shadow with a Senri (their immune to fire) with a red wall (from a fused slime) to protect Chie. Easy fight, just spam physical attacks and you can kill the boss before she even summons her prince. However, I did level to 17. Why? Coming up soon is a fusion forecast the gives EXP to Sarasvati, who's got invigorate 2 which slowly replenishes your SP. Needless to say, VERY powerful.

Even better, its a pretty easy triangle fusion to turn senri into obariyon who resist physical damage and focuses on physical attacks which makes him suited for taking on the first bonus boss. Now all I need is some luck, hoping rampage isn't spammed backed to back. And yes, obariyon will be inheriting Tarunda.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Dincrest on August 27, 2009, 09:29:20 PM
Is it sad that the best RPG I've played this year is a remake of a 13 year old game that I first played back in 1999? 

In other words, Persona PSP's rocking my free-living world.  (And Lucca, if you disliked Ayase/Alana before, you'll really want to slide her face on a cheese grater during certain moments of the Snow Queen Quest.) 
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: MeshGearFox on August 27, 2009, 11:03:21 PM
I should replay P1 :( Maybe I will pick up the remake for that purpose. What do PSPs cost now?
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Gen Eric Gui on August 28, 2009, 12:22:17 AM
$160-200 depending on the model and what package you get.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Spoony Mage on August 28, 2009, 01:12:26 AM
Is it sad that the best RPG I've played this year is a remake of a 13 year old game that I first played back in 1999? 

In other words, Persona PSP's rocking my free-living world.
It'll be nice to finally play a version of the game that isn't scratched all to hell and thus rendered unplayable.  I swear, every used copy of Persona for the PS1 was like that and I could never find a new copy.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Raziel on August 28, 2009, 07:47:35 AM
Are the noise effects in DDS1 permanent, like incenses in Nocturne? For example, if the noise fully heals and gives extra 10HP to the user, is it permanent?

Oh, and can anyone give me a hint how much HP
Code: [Select]
Beelzebub 2nd form has? I don't need any advice or tips, I can work it out myself (I've already devised a plan), just approximately how much HP he has.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: DPB on August 28, 2009, 08:48:00 AM
Are the noise effects in DDS1 permanent, like incenses in Nocturne? For example, if the noise fully heals and gives extra 10HP to the user, is it permanent?

Yes.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: ShadowLaguna on August 28, 2009, 10:00:27 AM
Is it sad that the best RPG I've played this year is a remake of a 13 year old game that I first played back in 1999? 

In other words, Persona PSP's rocking my free-living world.
It'll be nice to finally play a version of the game that isn't scratched all to hell and thus rendered unplayable.  I swear, every used copy of Persona for the PS1 was like that and I could never find a new copy.

Cleaning discs help.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Spoony Mage on August 28, 2009, 09:02:54 PM
Is it sad that the best RPG I've played this year is a remake of a 13 year old game that I first played back in 1999? 

In other words, Persona PSP's rocking my free-living world.
It'll be nice to finally play a version of the game that isn't scratched all to hell and thus rendered unplayable.  I swear, every used copy of Persona for the PS1 was like that and I could never find a new copy.

Cleaning discs help.
It'd help even more if cleaning the discs actually did anything.  Then again, maybe I was doing it wrong.  You'd think the disc cleaners were simple to figure out, but I never could completely work out how those disc "fixers" worked.

Maybe I just fail at life.  :P
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: MeshGearFox on August 28, 2009, 11:07:17 PM
IIRC!!!

PSX/PS2 doesn't, uh, interpolate data. Which means that if you use that scratch the hell out of it to buff it down method (toothpaste, resurfacer), which would work for a PC CD ROM, it wouldn't for a PSX game work.

YOu'd need to go to gamestop and have them resufrace it fro yu
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: kyuusei on August 28, 2009, 11:16:16 PM
Sweeet, I'm finally starting Nocturne. It only took me five years to get to it. :D

QUESTION: Who actually bothered to name all the characters, other than the Demifiend? Me, I'm too lazy. :P
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Marshmallow on August 29, 2009, 01:45:41 PM
IIRC!!!

PSX/PS2 doesn't, uh, interpolate data. Which means that if you use that scratch the hell out of it to buff it down method (toothpaste, resurfacer), which would work for a PC CD ROM, it wouldn't for a PSX game work.

YOu'd need to go to gamestop and have them resufrace it fro yu

I've advocated the freezer trick before for PSX games, but that's been the best way I've found to get playstation games working. Basically you wrap the game in a towel and pop it in the freezer for a little while and it might start working smoothly. Doesn't work all the time though (I tried it with Star Ocean 2 and it worked, but on Xenogears it did not).
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Gen Eric Gui on August 29, 2009, 03:15:07 PM
Sweeet, I'm finally starting Nocturne. It only took me five years to get to it. :D

QUESTION: Who actually bothered to name all the characters, other than the Demifiend? Me, I'm too lazy. :P

I hate coming up with names.  I play games like I read books, I don't want to have my name in there, I'm watching somebody else's story.  I usually go as far as using the "canon" names for unnamed heroes, not just keeping names like Isamu and Chiaki intact.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: kyuusei on August 29, 2009, 03:43:30 PM
When I started P3 and 4, I didn't know the main's canon name - but I do now, a little late ha. I thought of using Hitoshura in Nocturne (which I think is as accurate as you can get?) but felt silly for some reason. :P I'm especially lazy when the character does have a default name, like the Nocturne ones.

This coming from someone who used to re-name EVERYONE, but then that got stupid 'cause when reading FAQs I'd forgotten who was who (default name-wise). =P
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: bigdeath on August 29, 2009, 03:45:08 PM
Persona 4:

Jack frost uses Bufula/ice boost to kick the first bonus boss butt before it even gets off its 1 hit-kill rampage. Damn!
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: MeshGearFox on August 29, 2009, 03:47:21 PM
for smt games if there's no default name i find a japanese name list and just pick stuff. sometimes this works poorly since i didn't read my P3 manual and named my MC Aki and it's like HI AKIHIKO THIS IS AKI. WELL FUCK.

I think I named my Nocturne guy Daisuke.

(Dragon Warrior games, of course, get far more interesting names, such as Ruth, Scott, Hezekiah, Zekariah, Naskhida... And my QfG2 character is, of course, named Aloysius. Harvest Moon characters I recently started naming after counties in Ohio. HI MY NAME IS PUTNAM AND THIS IS MY DOG ASHTABULA WELCOME TO WYANDOT FARM. If I ever get a female version I'm naming the MC Geauga because that's an old indian word for Raccoon and Raccoon is an AWESOME name for girls.

My future children hate me :]]]])
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: kyuusei on August 29, 2009, 04:25:10 PM
Daisuke. Ugh, I can't not think of that soccer dude in P4.

So, Nocturne/DDS1/DDS2 are ALL on sale at amazon.com ....AND .ca. So for anyone who'd been looking to get 'em, go. :P

(I'm still trying to find the Raidou games, myself. :()
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: MeshGearFox on August 29, 2009, 06:53:46 PM
Just get Raidou 2. It's still new enough to not even be rare. The first one's not that worth getting.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Madoka on August 29, 2009, 06:59:34 PM
QUESTION: Who actually bothered to name all the characters, other than the Demifiend? Me, I'm too lazy. :P

I never name characters; I always use the default names.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: CDFN on August 29, 2009, 07:57:33 PM
I think that having your own name on the main characters really helps you get into the story, especially in these games where you really are supposed to feel that you're the protagonist. It works particulary well in Nocturne.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Dincrest on August 29, 2009, 09:19:29 PM
In MegaTen, if there is no default name I always go with Yuuya Narumi, because that was the main's name in one of the P1 drama CDs, but folks aren't always aware of that and tend to use his manga name Naoya Toumou as canon.  Of course, alliteration tends to be somewhat laughable, what with P3 having Fuuka and Yukari along with Yuuya (okay, Yuko too); P4 having Yukiko and Yosuke along with Yuuya; and now P1 having Yuka Ayase and Yukino Mayuzumi along with Yuuya.  

Of course with Innocent Sin, I renamed Tatsuya Suou to TAT SUO because my kanji reading skills were fail so that way I always knew if people were talking to/about him.  (Loved the wordplay in P2 what with Tatsuya Suou and Tatsuya Sudou using different kanji to spell their first names.)

In MegaTen games it just makes sense to me to give a Japanese name since it's about Japanese teenagers.  Since my favorite Japanese girl's name is Sayori, if I play P3 PSP Girl's side, I'll name her Sayori.  

With RPGs where I create my own character, since I always create a female character, I can never call her Neal.  I like more colorful/flowery names like Orchid Mist or something.  

ASIDE: And I have to admit, though I was not initially fond of the new Shoji Meguro pieces in the P1 PSP remake (likely due to a personal bias toward the old soundtrack), the new soundtrack has really grown on me and I rather like it now.  Similar thing happened with P4.  My initial impression was that I liked P3's music more, but the more I've listened to P4's CD as my bedtime music, the more it's growing on me and the more I seem to be enjoying it.  
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: kyuusei on August 29, 2009, 10:42:11 PM
Just get Raidou 2. It's still new enough to not even be rare. The first one's not that worth getting.
In  Canada it seems to be. :P

Well, I want 1 if I can get it cheap. Like, not-over$30-cheap. I may have to branch out and harass a few more EB/Gamestops up here for Raidou 2. (We actually have a couple that are even called GameStop now! I almost died of shock. :P)

And yeah, it does make sense to give them Japanese names in MegaTen. I usually go with Kyuu if I NEED to pick a name, since I use it online like everywhere... And I can use it on a male or female. and when I played P4 I listened to my friends who are all Heroes fanatics and named him Hiro Nakamura. Myself, I've never even seen the show, but I needed a Japanese name so whatever.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Draak on August 29, 2009, 11:11:36 PM
for smt games if there's no default name i find a japanese name list and just pick stuff. sometimes this works poorly since i didn't read my P3 manual and named my MC Aki and it's like HI AKIHIKO THIS IS AKI. WELL FUCK.

LOL, something similar happend to me in P4. I named the main Daisuke and guess what? There was that soccer club dude name Daisuke.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Raziel on August 30, 2009, 01:09:15 AM
for smt games if there's no default name i find a japanese name list and just pick stuff. sometimes this works poorly since i didn't read my P3 manual and named my MC Aki and it's like HI AKIHIKO THIS IS AKI. WELL FUCK.

LOL, something similar happend to me in P4. I named the main Daisuke and guess what? There was that soccer club dude name Daisuke.

I named my character Keisuke (Kusanagi) in Persona 3, as I always do in RPGs, and the guy in the photograph club had the same name! :D
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Lard on August 30, 2009, 01:18:33 AM
Why does Susan-O sound like Fat Albert in Devil Summoner 2?
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Lard on September 02, 2009, 09:30:29 PM
Probably old news for everyone here, but a nicely put together video on Persona PSP.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9lkgs00SAnQ&feature=related
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Dincrest on September 02, 2009, 10:01:48 PM
I loved it when Ayase (she'll still always be Alana to me) would say "heeere Personie!" or "hurry up and come on out!" when summoning.  Some people would find it annoying, but that's precisely her personality.  I always found her very amusing.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: kyuusei on September 13, 2009, 03:53:42 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N7grkpvYrkI&feature=player_embedded

Strange Journey trailer.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: CDFN on September 13, 2009, 05:04:03 PM
The demons look really good in the battles. Visually it's a huge improvement over DS. It seems like you can actually explore the dungeons in first person, doesn't look bad for a DS game. The characters don't look very charismatic though.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: daschrier on September 13, 2009, 11:24:12 PM
So far I like P3 a lot more than P4. P3 had a much grander scale, so far anyway, and I liked the characters and the dungeon better. P4 has me investigating muders for people I've just been introduced to, therefore have no real attachment to them, nor should I care if they're dead. Plus the yellow color scheme is just bleh.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: kyuusei on September 14, 2009, 02:05:21 AM
Yeah, I hated  P4's color scheme. I liked the epic-ness of P3 in terms of story and stuff - but how far are you in P4? Because not everyone you rescue is a stranger.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: MeshGearFox on September 14, 2009, 02:42:26 AM
Traditionally yellow is a color associated with insanity and the sort of simultaneously sick and antiseptic feeling associated with hospitals, hence the existence of literary works such as The King in Yellow and The Yellow Wallpaper.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: bigdeath on September 14, 2009, 02:46:34 AM
Is that Western tradition because PS4 is obviously a Japanese game?
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: MeshGearFox on September 14, 2009, 02:50:52 AM
Yes.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Eusis on September 14, 2009, 02:51:01 AM
Is that Western tradition because PS4 is obviously a Japanese game.

Enough people on the MegaTen team acknowledge the King in Yellow and similarly Lovecraft's work, but that's beside the point.

Some of these things can be cultural, but they could also be ingrained into the working of our brains so it'd pop up elsewhere anyway, though I imagine at least the sick thing would be the same there.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: bigdeath on September 14, 2009, 03:44:34 AM
Quote
Some of these things can be cultural, but they could also be ingrained into the working of our brains so it'd pop up elsewhere anyway, though I imagine at least the sick thing would be the same there.

Well, apparently not considering yellow is used in PS4 more like a party color. I've never hear of yellow being associated with sickness before but hell, I'm uncultured swine so what would I know.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Raziel on September 14, 2009, 08:43:50 AM
Why are we speaking about Phantasy Star 4?
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: daschrier on September 14, 2009, 09:13:48 AM
Yeah, I hated  P4's color scheme. I liked the epic-ness of P3 in terms of story and stuff - but how far are you in P4? Because not everyone you rescue is a stranger.

I just completed the 2nd dungeon. I've heard it gets better further in.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Eusis on September 14, 2009, 09:23:21 AM
Well, apparently not considering yellow is used in PS4 more like a party color. I've never hear of yellow being associated with sickness before but hell, I'm uncultured swine so what would I know.

Colors can symbolize several things, or have no conscious intention behind it at all. If anything this is probably more a potential explanation for why some people don't like the color scheme.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: bigdeath on September 14, 2009, 10:51:22 AM
Hell, I just hate the color yellow because I'm always disliked it. Still, never bugged me much that P4 loves yellow.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: kyuusei on September 14, 2009, 11:26:34 AM
Yeah, I hated  P4's color scheme. I liked the epic-ness of P3 in terms of story and stuff - but how far are you in P4? Because not everyone you rescue is a stranger.

I just completed the 2nd dungeon. I've heard it gets better further in.

Honestly, the whole game does. Gameplay wise it beats out P3 no question.

Nocturne is slowly becoming one of my favorite SMT games period. :D
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: CDFN on September 19, 2009, 02:23:42 PM
So in devil survivor after completing Yuzu's path I started a new game plus and choose amane's path which is supposed to be hardest. Like I said I had some trouble with the last fight in yuzu's path so I braced myself for this. Well, I completed it without loosing a single fight and without any grinding whatsoever. The only fight that was actually hard was the last one because it's just fucking insane but my MC's party was pretty much invencible.
I was using Loki and Shiva. Loki had megidolaon and deathbound. Shiva also had deathbound and did the healing. I pumped up MC's magic and used holy dance which combined with shiva's awakening is lethal. Thanks to loki the party recovers mp at the end of every battle so it never runs out. I don't know if there is a better way in the guides but you can't go wrong with this approach.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Gen Eric Gui on September 19, 2009, 05:39:47 PM
Just remember that on New Game + you gain EXP faster and got some things carried over to your new game, like MC's Bel abilities and whatnot.  You also had the added benefit of knowing what was coming and knowing what the better skill builds were.  So while Amane's route IS the hardest you were basically doing it on easy mode.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: CDFN on September 19, 2009, 07:32:49 PM
Just remember that on New Game + you gain EXP faster and got some things carried over to your new game, like MC's Bel abilities and whatnot.  You also had the added benefit of knowing what was coming and knowing what the better skill builds were.  So while Amane's route IS the hardest you were basically doing it on easy mode.

Obviously I'm aware of that. But there aren't any bel abilities to carry over from yuzu's path neither did I know what was coming because the path I played before is completely different and doesn't have anything in common with this one. As for the actual level of my characters it was actually lower than it was at the end of day 6 on my first play because I grinded a lot. If I didn't happen to have that particular setup on my MC's party I would have lost because all my other parties were obliterated by the time I fought the very last boss, that's why I was recomending it. The real advantage of new game + is the ability to fuse demons without the requirement to be at their level.
Lucifer is insanely hard no matter what you do though, at least it seemed that way from the only time I tried it.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: cj_iwakura on September 20, 2009, 12:30:38 AM
Yeah, I hated  P4's color scheme. I liked the epic-ness of P3 in terms of story and stuff - but how far are you in P4? Because not everyone you rescue is a stranger.

I just completed the 2nd dungeon. I've heard it gets better further in.

Honestly, the whole game does. Gameplay wise it beats out P3 no question.

Nocturne is slowly becoming one of my favorite SMT games period. :D

Years later and it's still the best SMT game, period.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Marshmallow on September 22, 2009, 06:52:43 PM
I dislike Nocturne, although it seems like it's made for the gamer who wants an extreme challenge, little story and very little direction. I dislike it because without the story to carry it along, it has nothing I really am interested in. Since there's only one main character, there's only sparse character interaction, so I didn't find myself becoming attached to anything at all.

DDS on the other hand is a pretty perfect blend of story and gameplay, while Persona has even more story and character interaction, which is what I really like in an RPG.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: CDFN on September 22, 2009, 06:59:37 PM
I dislike Nocturne, although it seems like it's made for the gamer who wants an extreme challenge, little story and very little direction. I dislike it because without the story to carry it along, it has nothing I really am interested in. Since there's only one main character, there's only sparse character interaction, so I didn't find myself becoming attached to anything at all.

DDS on the other hand is a pretty perfect blend of story and gameplay, while Persona has even more story and character interaction, which is what I really like in an RPG.

Nocturne has an amazing story man. And though it is hard, it's not insanely hard like some people say. Just give it time, you will become attached to it, trust me.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Gen Eric Gui on September 22, 2009, 07:49:25 PM
I dislike Nocturne, although it seems like it's made for the gamer who wants an extreme challenge, little story and very little direction. I dislike it because without the story to carry it along, it has nothing I really am interested in. Since there's only one main character, there's only sparse character interaction, so I didn't find myself becoming attached to anything at all.

DDS on the other hand is a pretty perfect blend of story and gameplay, while Persona has even more story and character interaction, which is what I really like in an RPG.

Yeah, just because characters don't stand around yapping at you for hours on end doesn't mean the game doesn't have a story.  The story in Nocturne is told most often through images and actions, not through words, and it's actually much deeper and much richer than any of your standard JRPG's have told in hundreds of pages of text.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Eusis on September 22, 2009, 08:17:54 PM
Nocturne's one of my favorite RPGs partially because of the sprase-yet-fantastic RPG. Of course I've also decided that playing RPGs primarily for story is idiotic unless it's a story I can heavily interact with, such as Bioware/Obsidian's games and the Witcher. When the story is melded with the gameplay it can be far more interesting than if they were mutually exclusive as most JRPGs and similarly linear RPGs do it.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Lard on September 22, 2009, 08:22:06 PM
I dislike Nocturne, although it seems like it's made for the gamer who wants an extreme challenge, little story and very little direction.

Wrong.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Eusis on September 22, 2009, 08:25:45 PM
Also, Nocturne tends to get easier for the most part after the Metador fight. A few bosses near the end gave me trouble, but I don't think it was any worse than most any other RPG would've given me 10-ish years ago. Nothing like the bullshit Borgan was in Lunar Eternal Blue (Sega CD) anyway.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: daschrier on September 22, 2009, 09:48:04 PM
I tried Nocturne a few times before playing any of SMT game, and couldn't get into it, my OCD couldn't decide what skills to keep or forget, and when my persona kept mutating their skills into useless ones it drove me nuts.

I need to give it another try.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Gen Eric Gui on September 22, 2009, 09:59:35 PM
I tried Nocturne a few times before playing any of SMT game, and couldn't get into it, my OCD couldn't decide what skills to keep or forget, and when my persona kept mutating their skills into useless ones it drove me nuts.

I need to give it another try.

...there are no Personas in Nocturne.

And don't let them mutate skills, like, ever.  Unless you've saved recently and don't mind gaining the level again to try for something better if it gives you crap.  Skill mutations weren't really helpful until P4, at least to my knowledge.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: kyuusei on September 22, 2009, 10:35:13 PM
Agreed. Skill mutations are terrible in Nocturne and even P3 at times.

I think Nocturne has a great story, personally, despite the lack of character interaction, but it's also a game to kind of explore. Story doesn't just come in interaction. I can see why some people might not like that the game just.. leaves you on your own I guess, but you choose your own direction/Reason/skills which makes sense to me. I especially like the gameplay. It's fairly hard, but only brutal if you haven't played any other SMT (or very very little) beforehand. But considering I played all the DDS, Persona and Devil Survivor games, Nocturne hasn't been so bad.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: MeshGearFox on September 23, 2009, 01:26:05 AM
SMT:N's story is a lot more apparent if you actually talk to the NPCs (which a lot of people don't acknowledge as NPCs because they're either monsters or floating spheres). I remember that from my gamefaqs days.

Sigh. Highschool. Memories~~

I need to cure that. ALCOHOL TIME.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: kyuusei on September 23, 2009, 02:09:27 AM
True. There is very little FORCED interaction, I should have said. I always talk to NPCs in my games though - if they can talk, they count :P
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: daschrier on September 23, 2009, 09:14:12 AM
I tried Nocturne a few times before playing any of SMT game, and couldn't get into it, my OCD couldn't decide what skills to keep or forget, and when my persona kept mutating their skills into useless ones it drove me nuts.

I need to give it another try.

...there are no Personas in Nocturne.

And don't let them mutate skills, like, ever.  Unless you've saved recently and don't mind gaining the level again to try for something better if it gives you crap.  Skill mutations weren't really helpful until P4, at least to my knowledge.

Personas...summons...demons, whatever, everyone knows what I was talking about.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Dincrest on September 23, 2009, 09:20:26 AM
I learned the hard way about skill mutations in Nocturne, which is when my obsessive-compulsive saving habits and keeping multiple saves came in handy.  Good game, Nocturne.  Although I was very surprised that after
Code: [Select]
Baal Avatar (who kicked my ass six ways to Sunday), Kagutsuchi was a total lame duck final boss.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Gen Eric Gui on September 23, 2009, 09:40:23 AM
Quote
SMT:N's story is a lot more apparent if you actually talk to the NPCs (which a lot of people don't acknowledge as NPCs because they're either monsters or floating spheres). I remember that from my gamefaqs days.

That was one of the many things that made Nocturne so special.  The monsters you were fighting WERE the world's NPC's, and told the game's story through their dialogues not only out of battle, but in-battle as well.  Anyone saying "Well there aren't that many NPC's, just monsters and ghosts" first needs to look up the definition of NPC, and needs to broaden their horizons a little bit.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: daschrier on September 23, 2009, 04:26:02 PM
One of the things I do like that they did with P4 is allow you to see what the skills/spells do on the status screen, I don't believe the former games do this?
With all the "non-conventional" names, it's hard to remember what everything does, especially when you're asked to forget a skill to learn a new one and you have no idea what you're giving up.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: CDFN on September 23, 2009, 06:37:53 PM
One of the things I do like that they did with P4 is allow you to see what the skills/spells do on the status screen, I don't believe the former games do this?
With all the "non-conventional" names, it's hard to remember what everything does, especially when you're asked to forget a skill to learn a new one and you have no idea what you're giving up.

Definitely. Would have been more useful to me in nocturne though since that was my first SMT. I had a hard time remembering that stuff.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: kyuusei on September 25, 2009, 04:15:52 AM
Nocturne has the skill info when you're being asked to forget a skill.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: daschrier on September 25, 2009, 09:14:39 AM
Maybe it was just in battles that you didn't have a skill summary, I guess there was always the manual that listed most of the skills/spells.

I'm about 45 hours through P4 right now, I still like P3 better due to its location and dungeon crawling aspect.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Gen Eric Gui on September 25, 2009, 09:29:52 AM
I think there's a help menu in battle that you can toggle on/off.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: CDFN on September 25, 2009, 02:14:01 PM
I don't remember if there was any help in nocturne. I remember being confused with the names during battles though.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: kyuusei on September 26, 2009, 03:16:03 AM
I like P3's city atmosphere. P4's small town setting didn't appeal to me so much.

I dunno, either there wasn't help in the battles in Nocturne, or I just never accessed it. :P
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: MeshGearFox on September 26, 2009, 03:18:07 PM
http://www.gamefaqs.com/console/ps2/image/582958.html?gs=9 <- Little bar in baqttle saying qwhat stuff does.

Nocturne DIDN'T have skill descriptions on the skill learning menu IRIC.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: kyuusei on September 26, 2009, 03:30:55 PM
http://www.gamefaqs.com/console/ps2/image/582958.html?gs=9 <- Little bar in baqttle saying qwhat stuff does.

Nocturne DIDN'T have skill descriptions on the skill learning menu IRIC.

When you're being asked to throw away a skill? Yes it does. I've been playing the game for nearly a month. :P

(But in the Magatama menu it doesn't tell you.)
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: CDFN on September 26, 2009, 04:49:15 PM
Oh, ok, I always say this game is perfect anyway ;-)
But when you are new to the franchise it's always a bit confusing.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: kyuusei on September 28, 2009, 02:57:30 AM
Did anyone get Persona? Is it worth getting a PSP for? (Okay, so I want a PSP for at least two other reasons, but still.)
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: MeshGearFox on September 28, 2009, 04:08:11 AM
kyuusei, me being me, you might want to take this with a grain of caveat emptor, but Persona 1 was my favorite Persona game (in spite of some issues, such as the dungeon designs... um... not... not being particularly great). By and large I liked 1 and 3 more than 2, as 2 didn't feel, to me, like it had the same clarity of vision that P1 or P3 had.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: daschrier on September 28, 2009, 09:04:45 AM
I just got the PSP version.

I have a copy of the PSone version, I bought it when it was released, and was quite new to console RPGs at the time. Needless to say I didn't make it very far :)
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Dincrest on September 28, 2009, 09:27:02 AM
I luffered it obviously, but there is bias there and I certainly didn't hide it in my review (at least in the story section.) 

And I figure if the amount of games you want for a system meets or exceeds the cost of the system itself, it's a worthwhile purchase.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Ryos on September 28, 2009, 11:23:18 AM
The PSP has so many awesome RPGs for it that you are doing yourself a disservice by not having one.  That's even if the Persona PSP port is just as godawful as I remember the original PSX game being.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Draak on September 28, 2009, 03:24:05 PM
The PSP has so many awesome RPGs for it that you are doing yourself a disservice by not having one.  That's even if the Persona PSP port is just as godawful as I remember the original PSX game being.

Yep, I recently bought another PSP since my last one kicked the bucket and it was very worth the trouble. The PSP needs more love.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: kyuusei on September 28, 2009, 09:03:40 PM
I luffered it obviously, but there is bias there and I certainly didn't hide it in my review (at least in the story section.)  

And I figure if the amount of games you want for a system meets or exceeds the cost of the system itself, it's a worthwhile purchase.
Oh of course. I'm not sure I'm AT that point yet unless there's some games I'm unintentionally ignoring, but if I don't buy one before Christmas, I might just ask for one then. :)

The PSP has so many awesome RPGs for it that you are doing yourself a disservice by not having one.  That's even if the Persona PSP port is just as godawful as I remember the original PSX game being.

It's definitely not supposed to be that godawful. A while ago I debated between a PSP and a DS and wound up with a DS. Which is great but I still haven't got through my DS backlog. (Oops.) But for a PSP, see above. :)

kyuusei, me being me, you might want to take this with a grain of caveat emptor, but Persona 1 was my favorite Persona game (in spite of some issues, such as the dungeon designs... um... not... not being particularly great). By and large I liked 1 and 3 more than 2, as 2 didn't feel, to me, like it had the same clarity of vision that P1 or P3 had.

To be fair to P2 (...which I still haven't played), I'm told that EP makes more sense if you've played (and uh, understood) Innocent Sin. Not sure how true that is though.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Jet16 on September 28, 2009, 09:08:14 PM
To be fair to P2 (...which I still haven't played), I'm told that EP makes more sense if you've played (and uh, understood) Innocent Sin. Not sure how true that is though.

It really doesn't matter, EP can still be enjoyed without having played IS.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: kyuusei on September 28, 2009, 09:15:34 PM
I thought IS came first story wise (or at least timeline wise).
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Jet16 on September 28, 2009, 09:18:51 PM
Yeah, but the way the story is set up makes it so you don't need extensive knowledge of IS to enjoy EP.  
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Gen Eric Gui on September 29, 2009, 08:44:33 AM
EP provides you with everything you need to know about IS to understand it.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: daschrier on September 29, 2009, 09:18:19 AM
Starting the 4th dungeon in P4, and I still prefer P3 more.

P4 is also quite easy so far, I'm playing on expert mode and really only had trouble with the first real boss. I had a much harder time with bosses in P3.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Kyle on September 29, 2009, 11:09:14 AM
Strange Journey got good scores in Famitsu: 10/9/9/8.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: kyuusei on September 29, 2009, 11:20:44 AM
Starting the 4th dungeon in P4, and I still prefer P3 more.

P4 is also quite easy so far, I'm playing on expert mode and really only had trouble with the first real boss. I had a much harder time with bosses in P3.
I had the opposite problem. I never had boss trouble in 3 but three of 4's gave me real trouble.

Strange Journey got good scores in Famitsu: 10/9/9/8.
Awesome. I really ought to beat Devil Survivor (which has been in my DS for 3 months now) before this comes out. :P
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: MeshGearFox on September 29, 2009, 05:53:38 PM
I have to admit that I didn't like EP's translation much. Yes, they kept the Japanese flavor in it and yes, it was really accurate. But sometimes I felt like I was reading... I don't know, it was just really dry. It was like so heavily based in Japanese logic/culture/tropes* that I didn't really *get* it.

(I had issues with the battle system, too. It was simpler than P1's without being particularly faster, and while combos were a nice touch that weird phased turn thing drove me nuts).

* Not as much as Tong Nou, of course.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: CDFN on September 29, 2009, 05:56:00 PM
That's a good score for SJ. It will have to be really, really good to beat DS in my book.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: MeshGearFox on October 01, 2009, 02:54:39 AM
Popmatters reviewed the PSP port of Persona. They hated it for not having Social Links. They also complained about not being able to move in battle even though you can and it's not like finding a particular formation where you don't need to move around that much anyway is particularly hard.

Quote
Movement throughout the dungeons is both awkward, due to the lack of true fps movement (i.e. no strafing or looking up and down)

A) Why would you need FPS movement in a non-FPS games?
B) I thought you COULD strafe in the original.
C) Why would you even NEED to look up and down?

Quote
So, the player’s party is left unable to leave a room, to interact with the environment or to even chat with an NPC unless placed in the correct grid.

Okay seriously if this is giving you problems you suck at games.

Quote
which often leave you confused afterwards as you completely forget your original orientation.

Wait, what? There's a minimap and your orientation only changes in battle if you're back attacked and then you just turn around...

Quote
or for that matter changing another character from Japanese to African American and even going so far as to retool his language as a form of Ebonics

He said "wassup!" a few times. That does not constitute ebonics. Then again I don't know anything about black slang PERHAPS DINCREST WILL OFFER HIS THOUGHTS HMMMM?
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: daschrier on October 01, 2009, 09:20:57 AM
You can strafe in the PSP port...with the shoulder buttons.

How many dungeon crawlers let you look up and down anyway?

Lame.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Gen Eric Gui on October 01, 2009, 09:35:05 AM
...wat.  Those arguments make no sense.  Link to article plz, I have to see this insanity for myself.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Kstar on October 01, 2009, 10:28:33 AM
They hated it for not having Social Links. )

Oh deary me. hehe. Yes as Gen said, can you please link the article?  I'd like to read the whole thing, but from what you've quoted it looks quite nitpicky.  If you're going to nitpick at least make it about things that are worthwhile.  I'll comment more when I read the whole review, but the complaints here look like they were just trying to find something to dislike about the game.

I am anxiously awaiting Neal's response to this.  :-) 
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Dincrest on October 01, 2009, 10:38:11 AM
I think Mesh said it all.  It sounds like the guy's griping at a Granny Smith apple for not being a Red Delicious.  

As for strafing, you could strafe in the Playstation original as well.  I believe the L2 and R2 buttons allowed it.  In response to the awkward movement in rooms, you could change the controller orientation in the menu or just use the analog stick.  Movement was fine using the analog stick.  
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: MeshGearFox on October 01, 2009, 11:08:07 AM
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/review/112324-shin-megami-tensei-persona/

There's the article.

Quote
In response to the awkward movement in rooms, you could change the controller orientation in the menu or just use the analog stick.

That's one way to look at it. Another way to look at it is that, upon realizing you're not in line with an NPC or a door, is to move your character to be in line with said NPC/door (and by merit of the overhead views being entirely grid based it's not like this requires any sort of precision).

Or you can start spitting blood out of your eyes like a horny toad. That works too, I guess.

By the way, their Devil Summoner 2 review. It's got to be the single most retarded review I've ever read. That's what got me reading popmatters' reviews. They're hilariously awful. I've complained about it before. The biggest issue is that he spends the entire time talking about some sort of central theme of the game that he just completely made up, and never actually addresses the game.

http://www.popmatters.com/pm/review/102216-shin-megami-tensei-devil-summoner-2/

That was, by the way, written by the same guy who revealed that he doesn't have a fucking clue what "irony" means when he wrote:

Quote
It is ironic that Majesty 2's subtitle is The Fantasy Kingdom Sim, since it simulates economy much more realistically than most games of this type often do.

IT IS IRONIC THAT A GAME CALLED A SIMULATOR IS A SIMULATOR.

Knights in the Nightmare's review is also brilliant in it's "What the fuck?"ness:

http://www.popmatters.com/pm/review/107817-knights-in-the-nightmare/

The highlight is when he complains about the tutorial being in its own menu or something.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Gen Eric Gui on October 01, 2009, 12:00:22 PM
Eh, that wasn't as bad as I was expecting.  He basically just complained about the game being an old-school RPG, and missed a bunch of obvious features.  One of the commenters on the site even pointed out most of his errors, so I wonder if he'll say anything about that.  I was expecting more epic failure.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: MeshGearFox on October 01, 2009, 01:16:29 PM
It's not so much epic failure as it is him not discussing anything outside of what he's complaining about, and some of his complaints aren't justified.

Epic failure is the DS2 review.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: kyuusei on October 01, 2009, 03:49:20 PM
DS2 review felt like he was trying too hard to sound fancy and use as many adjectives as possible. :P
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Draak on October 01, 2009, 04:12:17 PM
Quote
Seen in retrospect, a Persona title stripped of its highly acclaimed social link gameplay is a soulless, characterless, frustrating, and (quite frankly) often boring experience.

*roll eyes*

I'm reading other reviews done by him and... just check the one he did for DQVIII.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: MeshGearFox on October 01, 2009, 08:28:17 PM
Also keep in mind that, for Popmatters, the Persona review is probably one of their best reviews.

Quote
wanted to be moved by the story and left with a sense of awe, not cringing at that immaturity of it all.

I HAVE TO BE MORE MATURE THAN EVERYONE ELSE FFFFFFFFFF. WHY DOESN'T YANGUS RAPE PUPPIES.

---edit---

Fuck how I wish I was illiterate right now.

Viva Pinata review.

Quote
Thus, a hardcore economics simulation becomes driven by the gamer’s voyeuristic impulse to witness what is ultimately both a cute but also gratuitous piñata porno flick.

Ghostbusters game.

Quote
"A distrust of the institutions of science and learning are present even in the gameplay."
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Lard on October 07, 2009, 12:38:02 AM
Sales figures from Silicon Era

North America
Persona 4 (PS2) – 110,000 (150,000 expected)
Devil Survivor (DS) – 40,000 (25,000 expected)

We also have sales data for Japan, but since Persona 4 was released there on July 10, 2008 that number is from last year’s report. Considering Persona 4 came out between two fiscal periods it’s probably different and just here for a rough comparison between regions.

Japan
Persona 4* (PS2) – 300,000 (180,000 expected)
Devil Summoner 2 (PS2) – 180,000 (120,000 expected)
Devil Survivor (DS) – 110,000 (100,000 expected)
Persona (PSP) – 160,000 (50,000 expected)
Growlanser (PSP) – 50,000 (40,000 expected)

*Only* 110,000 for P4? :(
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: kyuusei on October 07, 2009, 02:02:03 AM
How recent are these figures/was it between fiscal periods here too?

...but at least Devil Survivor exceeded expectations?
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Draak on October 07, 2009, 10:40:58 AM
Does anyone know how many copies of P3 and P3 Fes were sold both in NA and Japan?
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Lord Dorkus on October 07, 2009, 11:52:34 AM
Persona 4 postmortem
http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=25469
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Aeolus on October 07, 2009, 02:43:56 PM
Growlanser (PSP) – 50,000 (40,000 expected)

Wow Growlanser did better than expected. Its like there are people out there who would want to buy the game. I know I would if it would...just...come...out...here...already!

DO YOU HEAR ME ATLUS!!! *shakes fist*
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: CDFN on October 07, 2009, 03:15:07 PM
P4 sold below expectations in the US? That sucks.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Lucca on October 07, 2009, 06:13:46 PM
Persona 4 postmortem
http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=25469

This is actually a fascinating read, especially about the quibbles the designers had with the weather design. Just like they said, I too pretty much tried to tackle a dungeon instantly after someone was taken so that I wouldn't get screwed by the fog. Once I beat the dungeon, I had almost weeks were nothing would happen, so I'd just social link it to death.

Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: daschrier on October 07, 2009, 07:01:01 PM
I've been able to beat all the dungeons so far in 2 or 3 tries, so I've never really been afraid of the fog, but the game does grind to a halt when you're waiting for something to happen.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Lard on October 07, 2009, 07:40:56 PM
Persona 4 postmortem
http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=25469

This is actually a fascinating read, especially about the quibbles the designers had with the weather design. Just like they said, I too pretty much tried to tackle a dungeon instantly after someone was taken so that I wouldn't get screwed by the fog. Once I beat the dungeon, I had almost weeks were nothing would happen, so I'd just social link it to death.

Honestly, I disagree with their quibbles about the rush through the dungeons.

I never felt rushed in the game at all.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Dincrest on October 07, 2009, 11:07:18 PM
Still, it's interesting to see the POV of the developer.  Kinda like how Grace Under Pressure is regarded as one of Rush's best albums, yet in a 1992 interview for Bass Player magazine, it's Geddy Lee's least favorite. 
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: ULTROS! on October 07, 2009, 11:13:32 PM
Wow, so Persona 4 is the best selling game by Atlus?
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Lard on October 07, 2009, 11:19:10 PM
Still, it's interesting to see the POV of the developer.  Kinda like how Grace Under Pressure is regarded as one of Rush's best albums, yet in a 1992 interview for Bass Player magazine, it's Geddy Lee's least favorite. 

Yeah, it is.

And I've never heard that about Grace Under Pressure before. Maybe because it's the first one they did without Terry Brown?

And I think P3 sold more then P4, didn't it?
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: ULTROS! on October 08, 2009, 01:47:16 AM
Persona 3 alone sold less than Persona 4.
Persona 3 FES alone also sold less than Persona 4.

But if you combine the Persona 3 and FES sales, it will outsell P4 a bit.

I remember reading Persona 4 had sold 600k worldwide.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Indy on October 08, 2009, 12:55:51 PM
Still, it's interesting to see the POV of the developer.  Kinda like how Grace Under Pressure is regarded as one of Rush's best albums, yet in a 1992 interview for Bass Player magazine, it's Geddy Lee's least favorite. 

One of the best, maybe, but does not come close (imo) of Moving Pictures and 2112 though O__o
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Dincrest on October 08, 2009, 01:21:43 PM
Persona 3 alone sold less than Persona 4.
Persona 3 FES alone also sold less than Persona 4.

But if you combine the Persona 3 and FES sales, it will outsell P4 a bit.

I remember reading Persona 4 had sold 600k worldwide.

And don't forget about P3 for PSP coming out with the "girl's side" and wasn't there also that Project Aigis cel-phone game?  Yeah, P3's becoming its own little cottage industry in and of itself.  So that will boost P3 numbers some more.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: ULTROS! on October 08, 2009, 08:24:19 PM
Any of you guys know the Mara fiasco? I saw something in the Megami Tensei wiki and this could be even worse (http://megamitensei.wikia.com/wiki/Cthulhu)
(NSFW btw)
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: DPB on October 08, 2009, 09:21:05 PM
Any of you guys know the Mara fiasco? I saw something in the Megami Tensei wiki and this could be even worse (http://megamitensei.wikia.com/wiki/Cthulhu)
(NSFW btw)

Yeah, Kaneko likes his penis monsters.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: jj984jj on October 09, 2009, 04:32:26 AM
First day sales for SJ are 71k with a 63% sell-thru (so ~115k shipped).

Nocturne did 151k in its first week, there aren't any leaked first day sales for it. It's not as good as the first day sales for original release of P3 (91k) or P4 (148k) either. Better than Devil Survivor and the Raidou games of course, and a better start than the EO games as well. It's a great start, a second shipment is pretty much guaranteed (hopefully sooner rather than later), and I hope it reaches 200k by the end of the year.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Raziel on October 26, 2009, 02:59:27 PM
So, I'm playing King Abaddon, and I have a question about a strange fusion that occured just a moment ago. I was planning to fuse Pyro Jack when Victor became unusually excited, rambling like a madman, requesting a few gems to complete his masterpiece. Anyway, instead of old Jacko boy I got an Evil class demon. I didn't pay notice to the moon (at first I thought it might have something to do with the full moon), but I had demolished White Rider before I entered Gouma-Den.

So, is that special fusion influenced by the moon, fiends, or is it completely random?
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: CDFN on October 26, 2009, 03:17:37 PM
So, I'm playing King Abaddon, and I have a question about a strange fusion that occured just a moment ago. I was planning to fuse Pyro Jack when Victor became unusually excited, rambling like a madman, requesting a few gems to complete his masterpiece. Anyway, instead of old Jacko boy I got an Evil class demon. I didn't pay notice to the moon (at first I thought it might have something to do with the full moon), but I had demolished White Rider before I entered Gouma-Den.

So, is that special fusion influenced by the moon, fiends, or is it completely random?

Depending on the moon Victor may ask you gems to go with the fusion, resulting in a different demon or a more powerful version of the one you were going to fuse. Some of the demons you get through this method suck though. They are probably useful to fuse some rare demons though, I dunno, didn't look much into it to be honest.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Raziel on October 26, 2009, 04:28:45 PM
I tried Persona PSP and the music really irks me in-game for some reason. I've given the album listen before, and while I enjoy it stand-alone, it's tough to not compare it with the original BGM. To make matters worse, there are so few tracks compared to the original. (Only one (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4R_tkqiG6fs&feature=player_profilepage) "Persona" compared to the original where there's one (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8mM9co4UR8) for the SEBEC Bad Ending and other (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P0k4Bb3lqwk) for the Snow Queen Bad Ending, for example).

Oh why, oh why didn't they leave an option to turn the original BGM on? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqafhND-ns4)

I guess it's my fault for falling in love with the original BGM (one of the best VGM soundtracks ever?). I was really hoping that I'd have a chance to experience the music in-game. :/

Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Dincrest on October 26, 2009, 05:06:02 PM
The sountrack was probably altered since the original 4-disc monster probably wouldn't fit on a UMD.  So some sacrifices had to be made, such as character themes.  Persona has one of the best MegaTen soundtracks, but I liked the new one enough.  The battle and boss themes were sweet, I thought.  If I were reviewing old Persona's soundtrack, it'd be a 96 or 97 (my soundtrack reviews for the Playstation Persona soundtracks are glowing). 
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Eusis on October 26, 2009, 06:05:59 PM
The sountrack was probably altered since the original 4-disc monster probably wouldn't fit on a UMD.

Given how the original game was just a single CD and a UMD's 3 times the size of one (650 vs 1.8 gigabytes) I'm far more inclined to think it was a stylistic change.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: CDFN on October 26, 2009, 06:46:40 PM
I love it, can't get enough of the battle theme. I don't know how it compares to the original though because I never played it.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Ryos on October 26, 2009, 10:53:38 PM
The battle theme alone in the remake made me pretty much forget the couple of hours I spent on the first Persona.  Then again, playing the first few hours of the PSX Persona almost made me not want to touch the Persona series again.  So eh.  It is definitely a love or hate it soundtrack (although for me at least it works much better than Persona 3 and 4 at least early on).
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Dincrest on October 27, 2009, 03:58:45 PM
It took some time for the Persona PSP soundtrack to grow on me, but grow on me it did.  Yeah, I missed the character themes but the new battle and boss themes were awesome.  And Eus, thanks for the info. 
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Dizzy on October 29, 2009, 03:21:12 PM
On the subject of Persona music, this is fucking amazing:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ajrxrUKWrHQ&

Fuck, I wish I could have went there. D:
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Dincrest on October 29, 2009, 03:37:24 PM
Nice find, Dizzy.  Loved the "Reach Out to the Truth" one since that's a personal fave.  That's going on my Facebook status.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Fadedsun on October 29, 2009, 07:02:15 PM
On the subject of Persona music, this is fucking amazing:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ajrxrUKWrHQ&

Fuck, I wish I could have went there. D:

WTH?! I didn't even know about this. This is awesome!
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: CDFN on October 29, 2009, 07:19:57 PM
Thanks for the link man! She really delivered on PMTS, great singing.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Dizzy on October 29, 2009, 11:26:44 PM
I also love how "Reach Out to the Truth" and "Pursuing My True Self" turned out. And I'm glad "Heaven" was played live as well. I'm usually not a big fan of Live Concerts in general, but this one was quite good.

As much as I love "Mass Destruction", I couldn't watch that one while keeping a straight face. :P
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Raziel on October 30, 2009, 02:23:35 AM
C'mon, this was clearly the best. 7-minute epic (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CaHvJrheTxU).





Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: kyuusei on October 30, 2009, 02:39:45 AM
Burn My Dread

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bbB8nE5X2o&feature=related

I'm totally supposed to be doing vector calculus right now. I'm totally not.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: mizuki_no_beatdown on October 30, 2009, 03:25:46 AM
Dang, that was even better than the recording.
 
 
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6oyKtzOJp0Q&feature=related
 
 My favorite P4 track, short but sweet. Gosh, the bass!!!
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: CDFN on October 30, 2009, 02:06:39 PM
Hell they're all great! All of them. I thought the singer of burn my dread was younger. Anyway, very solid performances, loved watching these.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Fadedsun on October 30, 2009, 03:53:13 PM
Dang, that was even better than the recording.
 
 
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6oyKtzOJp0Q&feature=related
 
 My favorite P4 track, short but sweet. Gosh, the bass!!!

When I read "Gosh, the bass!!!" I automatically knew what song it was going to be. Definitely one of my favorites from P4 as well.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: CDFN on October 30, 2009, 08:54:37 PM
Oh man I love Shihoko Hirata, she has such a great voice and is pretty cute to boot. Can't get enough of these vids. There are some great performances from the other musicians too. This concert is pure gold, I'm glad you posted those links man.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Spoony Mage on October 31, 2009, 01:20:01 AM
Awesome stuff!  Sometimes, there is nothing quite like hearing favorite game music from a live show.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Dizzy on October 31, 2009, 05:07:06 AM
I believe the DVD was released for it fairly recently too. I may try to hunt a copy down.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: kyuusei on October 31, 2009, 12:47:38 PM
I believe the DVD was released for it fairly recently too. I may try to hunt a copy down.
I'd totally buy a DVD of this. Maybe CDJapan?
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Madoka on October 31, 2009, 12:57:40 PM
I believe the DVD was released for it fairly recently too. I may try to hunt a copy down.
I'd totally buy a DVD of this. Maybe CDJapan?
Same here. I don't care if I have to import it from Jupiter.

CDJapan (http://www.cdjapan.co.jp/detailview.html?KEY=ANZB-3181) Region 2 tho.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Draak on October 31, 2009, 01:33:13 PM
Play-Asia got both limited and normal editions.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: kyuusei on October 31, 2009, 04:32:55 PM
I believe the DVD was released for it fairly recently too. I may try to hunt a copy down.
I'd totally buy a DVD of this. Maybe CDJapan?
Same here. I don't care if I have to import it from Jupiter.

CDJapan (http://www.cdjapan.co.jp/detailview.html?KEY=ANZB-3181) Region 2 tho.
S'all right, it'll put my JPS2 to good use. Gracias.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: MeshGearFox on October 31, 2009, 05:14:52 PM
Quote
Oh man I love Shihoko Hirata, she has such a great voice and is pretty cute to boot.

Wait, isn't Shihoko one of the most popular indie crossdressing musicians in Japan? What's the term for that anyway? I mean it's sort of related to glam and has traditional aspects dating back to Kabuki, but I mean, more outright crossdressing like that guy from Malice Mizer than whatever the hell Brian Eno used to do: http://www.propertyinvesting.net/cgi-script/csNews/image_upload/specialreports_2edb.brian-eno.jpg
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: CDFN on October 31, 2009, 05:19:59 PM
Quote
Oh man I love Shihoko Hirata, she has such a great voice and is pretty cute to boot.

Wait, isn't Shihoko one of the most popular indie crossdressing musicians in Japan? What's the term for that anyway? I mean it's sort of related to glam and has traditional aspects dating back to Kabuki, but I mean, more outright crossdressing like that guy from Malice Mizer than whatever the hell Brian Eno used to do: http://www.propertyinvesting.net/cgi-script/csNews/image_upload/specialreports_2edb.brian-eno.jpg

What? I dunno, never heard of her before Persona 4, I have no idea. I just googled her but couldn't find anything at all. I just like her stage presence, I think she's pretty charismatic.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Fadedsun on October 31, 2009, 06:40:24 PM
Quote
Oh man I love Shihoko Hirata, she has such a great voice and is pretty cute to boot.

Wait, isn't Shihoko one of the most popular indie crossdressing musicians in Japan? What's the term for that anyway? I mean it's sort of related to glam and has traditional aspects dating back to Kabuki, but I mean, more outright crossdressing like that guy from Malice Mizer than whatever the hell Brian Eno used to do: http://www.propertyinvesting.net/cgi-script/csNews/image_upload/specialreports_2edb.brian-eno.jpg

Are you talking about visual-kei? It's like the Japanese equivalent of 80's glam rock here in America.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: kyuusei on November 04, 2009, 02:09:56 AM
SiliconEra sez Strange Journey is listed on Amazon.ca for March 10th 2010. Which it is when you do a search on there.. except there doesn't seem to be a product page.

Except now I can't find it at all. Oh well, it worked this morning.

http://www.siliconera.com/2009/11/02/amazon-dates-shin-megami-tensei-strange-journey-for-march/
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: ULTROS! on November 04, 2009, 02:45:16 AM
I just found out recently the director of Persona PSP is Shoji Meguro (composer of Persona 3 and 4). Is that right? :P
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Eusis on November 04, 2009, 02:57:49 AM
I just found out recently the director of Persona PSP is Shoji Meguro (composer of Persona 3 and 4). Is that right? :P

Yup.

Re Strange Journey date: Probably a mistake on Amazon.ca's part, but probably in that they weren't supposed to list the game yet.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: kyuusei on November 04, 2009, 10:54:08 AM
I just found out recently the director of Persona PSP is Shoji Meguro (composer of Persona 3 and 4). Is that right? :P

Yup.

Re Strange Journey date: Probably a mistake on Amazon.ca's part, but probably in that they weren't supposed to list the game yet.

Is what I was thinking. Apparently, amazon.ca has done this quite a few times. :P But nice to know that it's finally coming. Not that I should have had any doubt but I WAS starting to wonder..
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Dizzy on November 04, 2009, 08:47:00 PM
I just ordered myself an LE version of the Live. I'm going to have to keep watching it on youtube, 'til it arrives. :l
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: MeshGearFox on November 04, 2009, 09:52:12 PM
Going off famitsu' review, there's no way I could dislike Strange Journey.

What's the release date they gave anyway
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Eusis on November 05, 2009, 03:24:53 PM
March next year, it's just been announced actually. (http://www.atlus.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5096)
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Lard on November 06, 2009, 12:17:10 AM
Not a surprise but nice to hear nonetheless
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Gen Eric Gui on November 06, 2009, 12:28:59 AM
Yeah, I can't wait for this.  I loved EO and Devil Survivor, so a combo fo the two should be absolutely fantastic.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: MeshGearFox on November 06, 2009, 07:20:19 PM
If there's crash bugs this time, though, I'm gonna half to choke a bitch.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Ryos on November 06, 2009, 10:47:14 PM
The announcement's all well and good, obvious though it was that Strange Journey would be heading over here.  But...

Where's Growlanser, DAMMIT?!?
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Aeolus on November 07, 2009, 12:00:26 AM
Where's Growlanser, DAMMIT?!?
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: MeshGearFox on November 07, 2009, 12:55:48 AM
Where's Growlanser, DAMMIT?!?
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: kyuusei on November 07, 2009, 01:17:56 AM
Where's P3P, DAMMIT?!?
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Eusis on November 07, 2009, 01:31:27 AM
Where's P3P, DAMMIT?!?

That's even MORE inevitable than Strange Journey!
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: ULTROS! on November 07, 2009, 04:13:47 AM
Where's Persona 5, DAMMIT?!?

Couldn't resist.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: MeshGearFox on November 07, 2009, 04:40:43 AM
Where's the conveniently placed phallic metaphor between two oversized buns and this is only funny because I'm an old lady, DAMMIT?!?
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Dincrest on November 07, 2009, 07:53:49 AM
If we're all going to throw temper tantrums here, then I'll throw a temper tantrum about wanting Innocent Sin in English and Thousand Arms on PSN. 
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Fadedsun on November 07, 2009, 10:37:39 AM
If there's crash bugs this time, though, I'm gonna half to choke a bitch.

It what game was there a crash bug? I heard there was one in Devil Survivor, but it never happened to me.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: ULTROS! on November 07, 2009, 10:40:43 AM
If we're all going to throw temper tantrums here, then I'll throw a temper tantrum about wanting Innocent Sin in English and Thousand Arms on PSN. 

D:

Eternal Punishment on the PSN will bring music to my ears.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: kyuusei on November 07, 2009, 12:33:31 PM
I want Innocent Sin (and hell even EP since I lost mine) remakes too. :P

Devil Survivor was supposed to have crashes, but I never encountered them. Atlus even made some sort of press release about them. :P
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Dincrest on November 07, 2009, 12:56:21 PM
I wonder if it was a run of carts with certain serial numbers or something that was a bad batch.  Because around the same time, there was the mini-brouhaha about Black Sigil freezing.  I did not encounter any freezing in my copy of Black Sigil and Graffiti issued a statement that only pirate copies froze, but trustworthy peers who bought the commercial release saw freezing quite early on.  I'd like to think that I didn't just get lucky or fluke out. 
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: MeshGearFox on November 07, 2009, 06:30:33 PM
Devil Summoner had crash bugs marginally related to status effects on enemy units timing out. It didn't happen all the time but it was still very problematic as it tended to happen on the really long and hard fights where lots of status effects were getting slung.

Not as constantly seen as the Phantasy Star collection GBA Save Crash with PS1 ,though.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: kyuusei on November 07, 2009, 09:01:55 PM
Devil Summoner, or Survivor? I've never heard of Devil Summoner having bugs.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Lard on November 07, 2009, 10:05:59 PM
Where's SMT 4, DAMMIT?!?

I win.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: MeshGearFox on November 07, 2009, 11:01:24 PM
I meant Survivor.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Gen Eric Gui on November 08, 2009, 01:53:13 AM
Where's SMT 4, DAMMIT?!?

I win.

It's coming to the US in March.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: ULTROS! on November 08, 2009, 02:10:07 AM
Where's SMT 4, DAMMIT?!?

I win.

SMT4 = Strange Journey
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Raziel on November 08, 2009, 03:35:04 AM
Has Atlus confirmed that SMT Strange Journey is SMT IV?

That way it would be SMT 5 actually, since If was the third.

I'm actually wondering what's next. P3P and SJ were released recently, so what does the future hold? Persona 5? New spin-off series? Demikids? Majin Tensei III? Remakes of older games, like P2?

I'd actually kill for a Devil Summoner game set in feudal Japan. :P
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Ryos on November 08, 2009, 07:17:59 AM
There was a director interview a couple months ago where he confirmed Strange Journey is SMT 4.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Jet16 on November 08, 2009, 10:49:08 AM
I thought Strange Journey was originally called SMT 4 and then later changed to Strange Journey. I wonder where I read that, though.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Gen Eric Gui on November 08, 2009, 12:43:24 PM
It was an interview with one of the series producers.  He said he considered SJ to be SMT4, and the only reason it's not officially in the title is because it's not set in Tokyo, and he felt it would be weird for SMT4 to not be.

But for all intents and purposes, it's SMT4 through and through.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: MeshGearFox on November 09, 2009, 02:42:26 AM
Quote
I'd actually kill for a Devil Summoner game set in feudal Japan. :P

That'd work, actually.

Oh wait I should've done a WHERE'S MY BLANK DAMMIT for an english release of the original Devil Children games, which were actually good and probably the most stylistically similar games to FFL2 I ever played.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: MeshGearFox on November 14, 2009, 03:09:28 AM
My first Megaten game was actually EP. I ordered P1 off eBay a week later. This was back when I was in highschool. A freshmen, actually. That fall!

Then new years eve during my first semester at college I finally beat P1. Still haven't beat EP.

This is how glacially I play games, by the way.

Nocturne has a kind of mystique to it you don't really see in JRPGs that often. A peculiar sort of dream-like quality and a way of operating in the negative space.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Lucca on November 15, 2009, 03:05:12 PM
So I have P3P now (bought in Akihabara for about 50 bucks) and I will say the girl's main battle theme is the most addictive music I've heard in some time. I keep boppin' to it as Junpei bashes things with his sword.

The girl PC controls the exact same as the male PC (same stats too, I think. She might start with more SP though). I haven't gotten to any of the new social links yet, but I have met Theodore...though sadly only for 5 seconds.

Does anyone know if there's a good walkthrough for P3P yet? I know it's fairly early, but I have to ask.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Spoony Mage on November 18, 2009, 11:38:24 PM
So I have P3P now (bought in Akihabara for about 50 bucks) and I will say the girl's main battle theme is the most addictive music I've heard in some time. I keep boppin' to it as Junpei bashes things with his sword.
Yeah, I heard "Wipe All Out" on YouTube and I can't get it out of my head.  Much more addictive than Mass Destruction or Reach Out to the Truth (and I like the latter a lot more).
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: MeshGearFox on November 19, 2009, 02:52:22 AM
Wiping all Out sounds a lot like hedonistic super-gay dance music that you'd hear in malls during the 90s. Sort of like Hercules and Love Affair. I dunno if I like that or the highlife flavor of Mass Destruction.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: wildcard on November 19, 2009, 08:55:00 AM
I've played 'Lucifer's Call' as well as Digital Devil Saga 1 (missed out on 2) and Devil Summoner 1 before I managed to get my hands on P3.

I've got to admit, while I liked LC most upon this point, I really got hooked on P3, thought I did think that the characters are a bit... emotional flat. With P4 the series made an 'instant favourite' to me. I've also got the re-made P1 here (imported), but... while the story so far has been interesting, the game-play just can't keep me on the game. I don't mind most old-school style rpgs, but...
I really hate having to place the characters and having to watch out wether to use the normal weapons or the guns and all that >< It' not fun at all considering the rate the battles pop up.

Generally I think there are just too many options on how to handle battles. For me anyway.
I'll probably have to sell the game and will be able to focus more on Devil Survivors and look forward to P3P. I don't suppose there is a US-release date for it yet, is there?
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Gen Eric Gui on November 19, 2009, 09:05:45 AM
Quote
It' not fun at all considering the rate the battles pop up.

Then stop fighting so often.  The negotiate option is there for a reason.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: wildcard on November 19, 2009, 09:27:04 AM
I do that to get goodies as I probably wouldn't get anywhere anytime soon if I didn't, but the high rate of encounters is still not exactly my taste, I guess. Or it's the overload of options I suppose. Right now I've set the game aside and plan on letting it rest for about a month, then re-try again.

This methode has helped me out in other games I couldn't really settle in at the start and I'm hoping to make this work agian :) I've heard to many positive responses concerning the story, while managing to have gotten around being spoiled.
I guess if all fails, I'll have to pick up a walkthrough and just check what works best instead of figuring out by myself as I usually prefer.

But thanks for the tip. I'd have probably forgotten about it in my 'time-out' time ;P

Since I'm on it. Did I understand that right, that Devil Summoner 2 is a sequel to the first one?
=> I wonder if I can play it if I didn't finish the first one.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Dincrest on November 19, 2009, 09:41:21 AM
The Devil Summoner canon is an odd one.  The only Devil Summoner games released in the US were the Raidou Kuzunoha games (Soulless Army and King Abaddon.)  The Raidou Kuzunoha games have nothing to do with the older Devil Summoner games like Devil Summoner (for Saturn) and Devil Summoner: Soul Hackers (for Saturn and Playstation), which were only released in Japan.  Devil Summoner and Soul Hackers were a "what if?" had a certain apocalyptic event not occured in Shin Megami Tensei 1. 

As for Persona PSP, I myself had a love/hate relationship with that game when I first played it on the Playstation.  At one point I was ready to trade it in for something else, but I had no money so I decided to give my old save a shot... and the game opened up for me and became one of my favorites.  I must've beaten it 2-3 times on Playstation.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Raziel on November 19, 2009, 10:14:09 AM
Since I'm on it. Did I understand that right, that Devil Summoner 2 is a sequel to the first one?
=> I wonder if I can play it if I didn't finish the first one.

Yup, even though the character interaction feels more special when you've played the first one (there's lots of recurring characters).

Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Gen Eric Gui on November 19, 2009, 11:21:24 AM
If it comes to dire straights, you can play the second without playing the first, because the characters discuss any points that were relevant from the first game.  You won't know everything, but you get all the information you need to understand what's going on.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Ryos on November 19, 2009, 04:51:44 PM
I do that to get goodies as I probably wouldn't get anywhere anytime soon if I didn't, but the high rate of encounters is still not exactly my taste, I guess. Or it's the overload of options I suppose. Right now I've set the game aside and plan on letting it rest for about a month, then re-try again.

Once you have a demon's spell card, negotiating is a 100% success rate of getting rid of a particular type of monster, so you can avoid battles for long stretches that way.

Wiping all Out sounds a lot like hedonistic super-gay dance music that you'd hear in malls during the 90s. Sort of like Hercules and Love Affair. I dunno if I like that or the highlife flavor of Mass Destruction.

I'm not a huge fan of it, but I hated Mass Destruction, so eh.  One of the few things I liked about The Answer was its ability to make Mass Destruction not sound like some ghetto rap song in its version. 
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: bigdeath on November 19, 2009, 07:38:42 PM
Wiping all Out sounds a lot like hedonistic super-gay dance music that you'd hear in malls during the 90s.

And I hate it. *and sort of like it because its catchy but...........SHHHHHHHHHHHHH, don't tell anyone*
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Madoka on November 29, 2009, 06:47:03 PM
Ok, so I'm playing Nocturne and just ran into Trumpeteer. And got totally owned. OWNED. Wasn't even funny. Well, I didn't know what to expect and had the wrong Magatama and demons with me, but still, it was a slaughter. I'll try again now that I've seen what it can do....
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Der Jermeister on November 29, 2009, 09:55:03 PM
Nocturne in my opinion is decent but not ZOMG PERFECT like fantards make it out to be. The Digital Devil Saga games are a lot better in my opinion, with some of the best voice acting I've ever heard in RPGs. Persona 3 and 4 I like as well, despite my urge to kill whatever genius decided that someone should take the player for a complete idiot during battle. Devil Summoner 1 I liked as well, but its sequel for me had godawful loading times and a way-too-high encounter rate. Devil Survivor let me down as well, basically being escort mission hell and a grindfest towards the end, but I'm lukewarmly anticipating Strange Journey, given the decent reception it's received in Japan (then again, they give good scores to games I thought sucked).
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Madoka on November 29, 2009, 10:57:43 PM
While I am certainly enjoying Nocturne, I think that I also perfer the DDS series better as well. One thing I hate about Nocturne is having to discard skills when I learn new ones. I liked the skill catalog you had in the DDS series so you could equip what you wanted. One other thing about Nocturne is that sometimes I have no idea where to go next. I was supposed to go to the Diet building and had no idea where that would be. Perhaps to someone familar to Tokyo, they'd know what subway line to take, but I had to use a walkthrough to figure it out.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Lard on November 29, 2009, 11:23:11 PM
Nocturne in my opinion is decent but not ZOMG PERFECT like fantards make it out to be.  

Liking Nocturne does not make people fantards.

Devil Summoner 1 I liked as well, but its sequel for me had godawful loading times and a way-too-high encounter rate.

Higher than the random battles IN THE TOWNS during DS1? No.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: MeshGearFox on November 30, 2009, 02:40:30 AM
Lard, no. He's a furry :( Disengage or you might catch it :(
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: kyuusei on November 30, 2009, 02:56:52 AM
Nocturne being hard is just classic MegaTen, isn't it? If you haven't played an SMT before, yeah it'll kick your ass hard. But I played it after DDS1&2 and Persona 3&4, which is probably why I didn't find it so bad. As for not knowing where to go next, well, there's never a ton of options. Usually there's a clue from the last boss you fought, or the guy that hangs out at terminals, the last place you were at etc.

I like Nocturne because it DOESN'T hold you hand and you actually have to strategize short term and long term. :P
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: MeshGearFox on November 30, 2009, 03:30:37 AM
Nocturne's not even that hard by SMT standards. Also it's fairly linear in terms of story progression. If you can't figure out where to go next generally go to the next available dungeon you haven't been to yet.

I kind of fanboy about SMT: N. It's like... a demarcation point. I regarded games differently after playing it than before.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Gen Eric Gui on November 30, 2009, 09:31:08 AM
Quote
Digital Devil Saga

Quote
best voice acting I've ever heard

I assume the only game you've played with voice actors in it was Altered Beast then?  I thought the voices in DDS were TERRIBLE, they were all stiff and dry as hell.  Which was the point, yes, but it didn't SOUND good, so despite it being correct it's still not something I would classify as "the best ever".

Quote
Devil Survivor let me down as well, basically being escort mission hell and a grindfest towards the end

What grindfest?  DS was only a grindfest if you sucked at it.  And nearly all of the escort missions were meaningless since most of the characters needing rescue were in no danger to begin with.  There's only like one or two maps where the enemies pose any significant threat to the civilians present, and even then you don't have to really "escort" them anywhere, you just have to kill the enemies in the right order.

Quote
One thing I hate about Nocturne is having to discard skills when I learn new ones. I liked the skill catalog you had in the DDS series so you could equip what you wanted.

You're discarding worthless skills though; that's the whole point.  Early on you have skills like Agi and Bufu, but later having those skills available is completely pointless, so you discard them in favor of stronger skills.  I mean, honestly, once you had Agilao in DDS, you hardly ever used Agi anymore, so there was no point in having it in your skill list.  The point is to build towards a goal, and then to supply your team of demons around you with the skills needed to support that goal.  If Demifiend could have any skill he wanted at any time, you wouldn't need to change up your demons, and that whole system would be pointless.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Lard on November 30, 2009, 10:43:53 AM
Lard, no. He's a furry :( Disengage or you might catch it :(

Thanks for the warning.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: MeshGearFox on November 30, 2009, 02:51:14 PM
Quote
What grindfest?  DS was only a grindfest if you sucked at it.

If you accidentally go down the hardest endgame route the first time through it is, apparently.

Quote
you just have to kill the enemies in the right order.

Dark Wave dark wave dark wave dark wave dark wave~~~
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: supersonic on November 30, 2009, 03:54:16 PM
Amazon has Persona PSP for $14.98 right now if anyone's interested.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Ryos on November 30, 2009, 06:05:25 PM
Amazon has Persona PSP for $14.98 right now if anyone's interested.

Damn, can't believe it's already going for so cheap.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: supersonic on November 30, 2009, 06:56:27 PM
It's a special "Cyber Monday" deal; I don't think it will anywhere near this price anytime soon.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: cj_iwakura on December 01, 2009, 02:18:26 PM
There hasn't been a game quite like Nocturne since.

Still waiting, Atlus. SJ might do it, I hope.


Also, I killed Hitoshura in Digital Devil Saga.

Con: Red Star


Pro: YOU DO NOT NEED MAX STATS.

Severe exaggeration. All you need is Life Surge and maybe L92-94. At that point, luck is what matters.

Save the time grinding for noises, and use that time to plan a good strategy.
(If you plan on taking him out the real way, that is)

Anyway, evidence:

(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y17/cjiwakura/IMG_6240.jpg)

(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y17/cjiwakura/IMG_6241.jpg)

Eerie.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Madoka on December 03, 2009, 12:13:12 AM
Man, I suck. I just ran into Baal Avatar, and she and her minions just killed me. I think I need better demons with me. I've never seen the Game Over screen as much as with this game....
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Dincrest on December 03, 2009, 07:37:43 AM
In Nocturne, Baal Avatar kicked my ass many times.  Atropos is a 5-star demon.  After Baal Avatar, Kagutsuchi was a complete creampuff. 
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Raziel on December 03, 2009, 09:01:49 AM
I didn't have much problem with Baal. Usually I've heard that Noah is the nastiest of the bunch, but since I went for Musubi, I lack the experience myself. :P
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Gen Eric Gui on December 03, 2009, 09:27:52 AM
I would say that Noah is the toughest, simply because he only has one element that he doesn't reflect/absorb and he keeps changing it.  So one turn it's Force, the next turn it's Fire, and so on.  Until you figure out the pattern, you'll be healing him 9 turns out of 10, and all the while he's pounding you.  Someone spoiled the pattern for me and it STILL took me more time and effort to kill him then the other two.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Madoka on December 03, 2009, 12:28:32 PM
Ok, I've got a question about Baal Avatar.

Code: [Select]
I know she will turn you into a fly. But not all of my demons that I want to use have immunity to curse. The demon that has dekaja, dekunda, and debilitate doesn't. Now I don't use him much for attacking. So so those three spells work like normal even when the demon is in fly form?
I don't really feel like grinding for better demons....

I've also got a completely OT question, but it's not enough to start a new topic. I have a PS3 but currently have no games that support trophies. Are trophies manditory? Or can you turn them off?
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Gen Eric Gui on December 03, 2009, 01:35:10 PM
IIRC, Dekaja, Dekunda, and Debilitate all work the same no matter what your status is, as long as you're not Muted(obviously).  Same goes for things like War Cry and Fog Breath.  Just be aware the fly form should also make you more susceptible to damage, so there's that to contend with.

If you have an open ability slot on the demon in question, you could always make a Magatama with Null-Curse or some such and slap it on him if you don't want to make a new Curse-resistant demon.

And Trophies are not mandatory(I have several games from before Trophies were initiated and I can play them just fine) although I don't think you can "turn off" your ability to earn them in games that have them since they're ingrained in the games they are in.  Older games that have had Trophies retroactively added on you can simply not download the additions for, though.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Madoka on December 03, 2009, 08:41:15 PM
If you have an open ability slot on the demon in question, you could always make a Magatama with Null-Curse or some such and slap it on him if you don't want to make a new Curse-resistant demon.

You can do that?! I didn't know you could do that! I'm a fucking idiot.

Thanks for the into on the trophies.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Gen Eric Gui on December 04, 2009, 12:56:58 AM
Wait, I used the wrong word.  I meant Mitama, not Magatama.  As in like the Ara Mitama demons you can get from Rag's Jewelry.  Sorry about that.

But yeah, if you fuse any demon with a Mitama, you end up with the same demon, but he'll have a certain stat boosted (depending on the Mitama you used, for instance, Ara Mitama will always boost STR) and he'll get a skill or two from the Mitama if he has skill slots open.

And remember that any demon + a demon of the same class creates an elemental, and two elementals fused create a Mitama.  So let's say you have Ice Breath of a Fairy Jack Frost.  You can fuse him with a Fairy Pixie to create an elemental with Ice Breath, then fuse that elemental with another elemental to create a Mitama with Ice Breath.  You can then fuse that Mitama to any other demon to give it Ice Breath.  This is especially important later if you want to have things like Pierce on a whole team of demons, or various other powerful skills like Bright/Dark Might or Megidolaon.  And let me tell you, a whole team of demons with Bright Might is fucking classy.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: cj_iwakura on December 04, 2009, 08:11:17 PM
Bright Might is practically easy mode. But awesome.

I'm pretty sure that's how I obliterated most Nocturne bosses on Hard Mode.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Madoka on December 06, 2009, 12:16:23 PM
Wait, I used the wrong word.  I meant Mitama, not Magatama.  As in like the Ara Mitama demons you can get from Rag's Jewelry.  Sorry about that.

Ah, that makes more sense. Thanks.

I suspect that it'll be awhile before I finish this game. I managed to defeat all the bosses before this one (but I only did the first 2 kapla), but I am not doing enough damage once her minions come and start dekaja and dekunda-ing me like crazy. That and the full heal is not helping. Oh, and that damn Dragon Eye skill....
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Gen Eric Gui on December 06, 2009, 12:36:36 PM
Bright Might.  That's the answer to everything before the final bosses in Nocturne.  Get a full team of Demons with Bright Might, then fight the boss on Full Kagutsuchi.  As long as Demifiend doesn't get the first turn, you will always get 8 turns of attacks.  Even Tyrant Beelzebub will wilt before you.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: xXMelancholiaXx on December 07, 2009, 08:17:34 PM
I have to admit that every once and a while I slowly begin to lose interest in Japanese RPGs. It seems like so many of them are dull, generic, and cookie cutter. I remember months before before I first received Persona 3 for Christmas, I had all but stopped playing video games completely. When I first saw this video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ljwvYA2RHA) on youtube I was completely taken a back. Keep in mind I had never seen anything remotely like this in any RPG that I'd ever played before. I literally felt as if I was drawn into the world of Persona 3. Now first forward pass Persona 4 which I also have and enjoyed and we get to Shin Megami Tensei III: Nocturne. This pass year I've played many RPG's from Eternal Sonata to Tales of Vesperia to Star Ocean: Last Hope. None of them come close to holding a candle to Nocturne. It's not really the story though it's really good or the special character you can get, it's the negotiation aspect which really piqued my interest a great deal. The fact that the demons in the game have through own personality as oppose to just being angry bosses of temples or something. Demons will randomly ask you questions in a battle or will beg for their life. It's just a completely enthralling experience and the world or lack thereof really drew me in. Needless to say I've become a Shin Megami Tensei fan and I hope to purchase both the Digital Devil Saga games very soon because I've heard awesome things about that as well.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Lard on December 10, 2009, 03:33:29 AM
New release date for Strange Journey apparently.

http://www.gamestop.com/Catalog/ProductDetails.aspx?product_id=76262#

Probably smart.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Ryos on December 10, 2009, 04:58:02 AM
Kind of surprised Strange Journey isn't having some kind of preorder bonus...
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Gen Eric Gui on December 10, 2009, 09:05:06 AM
Kind of surprised Strange Journey isn't having some kind of preorder bonus...

There have been a lot of times where preorder bonuses were announced at a later date.  Just because Atlus hasn't said something yet doesn't mean we won't get something.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Lard on December 10, 2009, 01:18:03 PM
Kind of surprised Strange Journey isn't having some kind of preorder bonus...

Yeah, probably a later announcement. There were no bonuses with Devil Survivor though, so who knows.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: erwos on December 10, 2009, 03:35:10 PM
Yeah, probably a later announcement. There were no bonuses with Devil Survivor though, so who knows.
Theory: could be that marketing found that pre-order bonuses were less effective with portable games than console games.

Personally, I'd like to see them translate and port NINE to the 360. It'll never happen, but one can wish...
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: moomoofarm7 on December 12, 2009, 02:30:46 PM
Just started playing DDS-I'm about 5 hours in. I love it so far! I don't quite understand everything about the system yet but I'm getting there.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Madoka on December 12, 2009, 03:23:29 PM
Just started playing DDS-I'm about 5 hours in. I love it so far! I don't quite understand everything about the system yet but I'm getting there.
Don't worry, you will learn or the system will punish you. I loved DDS1/2.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Gen Eric Gui on December 12, 2009, 05:10:37 PM
Some basic tips for DDS:

1 - Status effects and stat de/buffs are absurdly powerful in SMT.  Fear them or die.

2 - Your ability slots are limited, so make use of the combo system.  If you are using the combo system properly there is no reason to ever waste an ability slot on an all-target spell.

3 - When all else fails, get extra turns.

4 - When assigning characters to learn elemental spells, do the OPPOSITE of what you think is the right thing to do.  For example, the game will be significantly harder if you make Serph learn Ice spells as opposed to teaching him Fire.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Lard on December 14, 2009, 02:30:12 PM
http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=22015

Thought this might be of interest to people on the board.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Gen Eric Gui on December 14, 2009, 03:02:57 PM
*sigh*

Was it so hard to figure out that Kanji isn't actually gay?
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Dincrest on December 14, 2009, 04:36:55 PM
For some people, yes it is.  You'd be surprised how much people only see, or want to see, things in black and white.  EDIT: Especially in video games where character roles and archetypes are so clearly defined.  Kanji's complexity and dilemma are something I totally related to since it reminded me of some personal struggles I had growing up. (and don't get me started on how "friends" like Yosuke probably don't help matters too much.)
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: daschrier on December 14, 2009, 05:04:35 PM
*sigh*

Was it so hard to figure out that Kanji isn't actually gay?

Why does there have to be a right or wrong answer to the question...even Atlus says it's up to the players own decions.

"We would like everyone to play through the game and come up with their own answers to that question; there is no official answer," says Yu Namba, Atlus USA's Persona 4 Project Lead. "What matters is that Kanji's other self cries out, 'Accept me for who I am!' I think it's a powerful message which many, if not all of us can relate to.”

Nich Maragos, Atlus USA's Persona 4 Editor, agrees with Namba that it is up to each individual player to draw their own conclusions, but his personal opinions sway toward a gay Kanji. "At the end of Kanji's Social Link, should you choose to advance it that far, he does say specifically in reference to his Shadow self, 'That 'other me' is me.'”
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Lard on December 14, 2009, 05:51:33 PM
Why does there have to be a right or wrong answer to the question...even Atlus says it's up to the players own decions.

Didn't you know that Gen is right about everything 100% of the time?
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Gen Eric Gui on December 14, 2009, 07:29:00 PM
No, it's just that they're pretty clear-cut about it by the end of the game.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: MeshGearFox on December 14, 2009, 08:46:43 PM
You know that thing where you go to college and think you're gay for a semester, before you realize that you're actually in love with malt beverages (but not before you sort of round-robin your roommate and his buddy in the lounge, even though you think he's an idiot for not knowing what cicadas are, and his roommate keeps playing with a knife and kind of scares you? But then he winds up dead after a car crash, where he's thrown clear and uninjured but lands in a puddle and drowns in like, an inch of water, and you always remember that night and can't really shake the feeling that somehow you caused the accident? And then you graduate and never really see anyone you know back then again, and move on with your life, but you still wonder what could've been? How things could have turned out differently? If... if!)

It's kind of like that, I reckon.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Lard on December 15, 2009, 07:26:16 PM
From Kotaku

The good news for Shin Megami Tensei fans is that the publisher's upcoming Nintendo DS spin-off, Shin Megami Tensei: Strange Journey has been given the Atlus treatment, now sporting a full soundtrack CD for "each and every launch copy."

The bad news is that the game has been given the other Atlus treatment, missing its previously planned March 10 release date, as specified by Nintendo itself yesterday. The new street date for Strange Journey is March 23 in North America, a more comfortable distance from another role-playing game hitting in early March.

And, in more good news, expect the whole package to come in a fancy slipcover, giving you double the opportunity to enjoy the game's... enjoyable box art. Triple, should you count the new outer box's spine!!
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Ryos on December 15, 2009, 07:42:06 PM
No, it's just that they're pretty clear-cut about it by the end of the game.

More like they caved in.  There's absolutely nothing throughout the game up until a particular plot point that suggests he doesn't swing that way.  Just because they spend 99% of the game suggesting one way and the last blip they're like, "Lol, whatever," hardly invalidates everything up to that point.  

Edit: Hmm, I figured based on the article date that it had been linked here before, but I guess that was just a regular discussion.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Eusis on December 15, 2009, 07:44:39 PM
Normally delays kind of suck, but I can't honestly see this as bad news. I'll appreciate the distance between this and Final Fantasy XIII! If anything the bad news was that Final Fantasy XIII's date was announced pretty much immediately after Atlus announced there's, and for the day before. Really shitty trailer supplied to make it even more bitter!
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Aeolus on December 18, 2009, 11:03:35 PM
http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3177380

Some stuff to look forward to down the road.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: ULTROS! on December 18, 2009, 11:20:13 PM
If it's SMT4 and/or Persona 5, I'd scream like a girl.

Anyway, regarding Kanji, I though he was pretty iffy.
Code: [Select]
You don't see much guys liking traps (that is, a girl dressed as a guy)
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: MeshGearFox on December 19, 2009, 12:40:04 AM
I thought SMT:SJ was generally considered SMT4 by the dev guys.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Lard on December 19, 2009, 01:00:21 AM
I thought SMT:SJ was generally considered SMT4 by the dev guys.

It was originally going to be SMT4 and then they they changed their minds in development.

Officially, it is not SMT4.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Gen Eric Gui on December 19, 2009, 04:20:58 PM
But it is still a part of the mainline SMT series.

Quote
There's absolutely nothing throughout the game up until a particular plot point that suggests he doesn't swing that way.

Kanji fucking falls over himself drooling over Naoto, and does so openly and publicly only after finding out she's a girl.  There is nothing in the game to suggest that he's gay except for his shadow self, which the end of the game reveals to be nothing more then what other people WANTED to see, not what his true feelings actually were.

His problem was that he had "girly" hobbies but felt that he was supposed to have "manly" hobbies.  His true self wants to be accepted for his hobbies, not for his sexual orientation.  Any minor questions he had about that are quickly cleared up for him once he realizes that Naoto is a girl.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Dincrest on December 19, 2009, 05:31:20 PM
And toward the beginning, he found it creepy when he thought Naoto was coming onto him.  He was thinking, "whoa, do I give off a gay vibe here that this guy's coming onto me?" 

One of my best friends, a playwright in NYC, even wrote a cabaret show about peoples' perceptions of him entitled "The Gayest Straight Man Alive."  Because he's straight, but everyone thinks he's gay. 
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: MeshGearFox on December 19, 2009, 07:34:39 PM
If he's coming onto the chick when she thinks he's a dude but still is into her after he finds out she's a chick doesn't that just make him bi?
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: cj_iwakura on December 19, 2009, 07:54:55 PM
I'm in the 'Kanji is straight' camp. He's effeminate at worst.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Gen Eric Gui on December 19, 2009, 09:12:24 PM
If he's coming onto the chick when she thinks he's a dude but still is into her after he finds out she's a chick doesn't that just make him bi?

He thought Naoto (as a dude) was coming on to him.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Ryos on December 19, 2009, 09:48:20 PM
Kanji fucking falls over himself drooling over Naoto, and does so openly and publicly only after finding out she's a girl.  There is nothing in the game to suggest that he's gay except for his shadow self, which the end of the game reveals to be nothing more then what other people WANTED to see, not what his true feelings actually were.

Code: [Select]
I dunno, the whole camp scene certainly didn't help Kanji's case out (his rather, ah, interesting interest in the fellow male persona users and the altogether bizarre reaction to the female persona users), especially since nose bleeds are the euphemistic display of an erection in Japanese popular culture.  Unless the kid has the slowest reaction ever to Chie and Yukiko, the most direct correlation is the scene with the guys in the water. And the mock dating scene if you choose to be "female" and "date" Kanji.  Kanji also seemed just a little TOO excited about wearing a dress for the cultural fair too.  

As mentioned in the article, the best evidence seems to be the last line from his s-link where he discusses how his shadow self is him.  Considering Shadow Kanji wasn't just effeminate, I'm not really sure what else he could have been referring to.

Granted, I'd really have to play the game again for it to be fresh enough in my memory, but there is no other character I can recall being so transparently gay in video games other than the shopkeepers in the Shadow Hearts series and the shop keeper in SMT: Nocturne and the guy from Enchanted Arms.  It would also explain why he's the butt of SO many jokes because every gay character like ever is treated as anathema by everyone else in every Japanese series out there but shounen-ai (at which point it's expected).

http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3177380

Some stuff to look forward to down the road.

Persona 5 please.  A combined Persona 2 PSP port/remake wouldn't be shabby though.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Gen Eric Gui on December 19, 2009, 10:48:59 PM
Nobody wanted to be in the culture festival event.  I didn't think any of their reactions could be construed as "positive".

And all I remember from the Campout was Yosuke making gay jokes because he's a nitwit like that.

As for anything re: his persona, it's ALWAYS about his wanting to be accepted for who he is.  It has nothing to do with sexuality whatsoever.  He liked to knit and sew, a girl in his class made fun of him for being "unmanly" and he tried to hide it by being super tough macho.  But ultimately, he just wants to be accepted by society for who he is, someone who enjoys working with textiles.

And really?  Comparing him to the shopkeepers in Shadow Hearts?  Kanji doesn't act even a single iota like them.  I agree, I think you need to play the game again, because Kanji specifically does NOT act "stereotypically gay", only his shadow, which as previously stated was not his inner self, but a caricature of what other people wanted to see.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Dincrest on December 19, 2009, 10:49:53 PM
Oh yeah, here's beans' old editorial about Cloud: http://www.rpgfan.com/editorials/2000/11-11.html I think it's both funny and appropo for where this topic is going.  

As for Kanji, I too am of the camp that Kanji's not gay.  His dilemma and internal conflict is far deeper and more complex than simply gay or straight.  It's not black and white and there's a massive shade of grey.  And hell, one could say that everyone's a little bit gay.  

EDIT:  How about a song by my "gayest straight man alive" buddy Seth:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j48XjInBd7U
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Lard on December 19, 2009, 10:50:14 PM
You guys are forgetting that Gen is always right 100% of the time about everything.

Whatever he says *must* be true.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: MeshGearFox on December 19, 2009, 11:06:05 PM
Maybe Kanji's a dickgirl.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Gen Eric Gui on December 19, 2009, 11:33:56 PM
You guys are forgetting that Gen is always right 100% of the time about everything.

Whatever he says *must* be true.

Your troll is showing.



At this point, I think Dincrest has said it best.  It really isn't a black/white option, because it never really is.  The game heavily shows Kanji to be straight; it's just that he's also a teenager and there's a lot of complicated shit going down.  And as someone who has a heavy affinity for "reverse trap" characters like Naoto myself, I feel that I somewhat understand the gray area that Kanji is treading.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: ULTROS! on December 19, 2009, 11:40:09 PM
Kanji sure did create internet warz.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Ryos on December 20, 2009, 02:01:58 AM
Maybe Kanji's a dickgirl.

Judging by fanart...

Code: [Select]
that's Teddie.  Hurray for those insane Japanese.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: MeshGearFox on December 20, 2009, 02:27:18 AM
Actually it's megaten so everyone's potentially a dickgirl. Even if Jenna Angel's the only *canonical* one.

What's funny is that I vaguely know an IRL dickgirl who goes by Jenna.

I kind of wish I didn't.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: ULTROS! on December 20, 2009, 03:29:30 AM
There are a lot of dick references in the SMT games.
Code: [Select]
That is: Cthulu, Incubus, and the ever so famous Maya-cock-on-the-chariot
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Gen Eric Gui on December 20, 2009, 11:54:12 AM
Also, quite a few of the demons are fertility gods, or reference the act of castration in their mythos.  In P3 FES, all the demons needed to special summon Mara had something to do with penises.

There was also a vagina demon in Devil Survivor.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Fadedsun on December 29, 2009, 09:34:42 AM
Does anyone have the Persona:Be Your True Mind soundtrack? I'm listening to it right now and a track came on called 'Maika's Theme' and it sounds like a faster version of Maya's theme from Persona 2. I'm playing Persona PSP right now and as far as I know Maya isn't in the first Persona, right? 

I can't find the track on youtube anywhere so I can't show you what it sounds like, but I'm hoping someone has the soundtrack to hear what I'm talking about.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: MeshGearFox on December 29, 2009, 01:46:29 PM
They didn't censor the Incubus in DemiKids. Hilarious.

Also the pretas in SMT:N had adorable wittle penithes.

Also that "vagina on a cube" from DDS2.

Also the endboss from
Code: [Select]
Persona 1.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Raziel on January 16, 2010, 04:38:38 AM
Could anyone give me a hint how to fuse Fiends in Devil Summoner 47? Just a hint that would point me in the right direction, that's all.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Noobien on January 16, 2010, 02:34:21 PM
My first SMT game was Devil Survivor. I must say, it's great! I'm eagerly awaiting Strange Journey.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: cj_iwakura on January 16, 2010, 06:16:13 PM
Could anyone give me a hint how to fuse Fiends in Devil Summoner 47? Just a hint that would point me in the right direction, that's all.

If I recall, there's a 1/8 chance of pulling it off on a full moon.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: MeshGearFox on January 16, 2010, 11:20:43 PM
Does anyone else wish DS2 had a randomly generated 100 demon fight skirmish mode or a survival mode or something? I *loved* the 100 demon fights.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: ULTROS! on January 18, 2010, 11:29:21 AM
Shin Megami Tensei for the PS3... According to Amazon Japan (http://www.siliconera.com/2010/01/18/shin-megami-tensei-for-ps3-says-amazon-japan/)
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Ryos on January 18, 2010, 02:05:59 PM
Shin Megami Tensei for the PS3... According to Amazon Japan (http://www.siliconera.com/2010/01/18/shin-megami-tensei-for-ps3-says-amazon-japan/)

Though I don't have a PS3 yet, that would certainly be one big step in making me go in that direction.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Fadedsun on March 23, 2010, 07:54:53 AM
Wow, it's been a while since anyone posted in the SMT thread.

Strange Journey comes out today! Who's getting it? Mine just shipped from Amazon, so I should be getting it in about a week. I'm really excited to finally play it.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Gen Eric Gui on March 23, 2010, 08:01:54 AM
Tuesday is the ship date.  Hardly anyone is going to actually get the game today, as it won't -reach- most stores until tomorrow.

I'm going to do my best to have it tomorrow, in any case.  I probably won't get it until Friday because of classes, but here's hoping.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: CDFN on March 23, 2010, 08:24:01 AM
I just read the review here at rpgfan. I'm still playing FFXIII, GOW3 just arrived in the mail and I also want to give ROF a go. SMT is my favorite franchise but I don't know if I've got the patience for a dungeon crawler right now.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: MeshGearFox on March 23, 2010, 10:44:57 AM
In before Popmatters writes a stupid review complaining about the lack of SLinks and wondering why they decided to rip off Etrian Odyssey by making it first person.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Eusis on March 23, 2010, 11:40:48 AM
Tuesday is the ship date.  Hardly anyone is going to actually get the game today, as it won't -reach- most stores until tomorrow.

I'm going to do my best to have it tomorrow, in any case.  I probably won't get it until Friday because of classes, but here's hoping.

Actually, I have release date delivery from Amazon and will be seeing it today unless they're unable to deliver or something. I'm guessing they had planned to have the games printed up and shipped on March 9th like usual, but due to the last minute delay to avoid FFXIII and the fact nothing meaningful could be done in that period, they produced the copies on the old schedule and just shipped them to retailers with a street date. So, yeah, it's worth a shot, just in case it's not some Amazon-only thing.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Lard on March 23, 2010, 12:56:41 PM
Tuesday is the ship date.  Hardly anyone is going to actually get the game today, as it won't -reach- most stores until tomorrow.

I'm going to do my best to have it tomorrow, in any case.  I probably won't get it until Friday because of classes, but here's hoping.

I found a store that has it! I'm going to get it now! :D
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Gen Eric Gui on March 23, 2010, 01:45:56 PM
That would be really nice.  I guess I'll swing by Gamestop and see if tey have my copy then.  It'll be nice to b able to play it on the bus and on breaks for the next few days.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Jet16 on March 23, 2010, 01:50:41 PM
Luckily the Gamestop near my house has it.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: MeshGearFox on March 23, 2010, 02:33:06 PM
Locally run gaming store has no idea when they're getting it in. I'll go out to gamestop tomorrow. I was gonna go out there today but I don't feel like spending an hour walking only to find out I'll have to head back out there tomorrow.

That and it got a lot warmer out than it was supposed to and I was way overdressed.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: kyuusei on March 23, 2010, 03:09:38 PM
I'd run out to get it but school is kicking my ass and I could proooobably do without extra distractions. Will get it after midterms though. Can't wait.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: citizenchris099 on March 23, 2010, 04:09:13 PM
picking my copy up with the DSI XL in a few days
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Lard on March 23, 2010, 05:04:25 PM
I'd run out to get it but school is kicking my ass and I could proooobably do without extra distractions. Will get it after midterms though. Can't wait.

Yeah I have a midterm tomorrow at 8am...but I wanted it!
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Gen Eric Gui on March 23, 2010, 06:56:05 PM
I have a Midterm tomorrow AND Thursday.  But I still got my copy today and I plan on playing it dammit!
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Dizzy on March 23, 2010, 08:05:20 PM
I'll pick mine up on Thursday, between class and work. At least I'll have something to do in between. All that I have left is a translation project, a presentation, and a final... which are all pretty easy anyways.

I cursed March releases earlier in the year, but I think it's actually working out pretty well. It's also my final year of university before I graduate, so I figured I could binge on gaming to reward myself. :P

But yeah, in any case, I can't wait to get my hands on it.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: CDFN on March 24, 2010, 08:00:26 AM
Katsura Hashino talks Persona 5.

http://kotaku.com/5500764/persona-developers-making-newpersona (http://kotaku.com/5500764/persona-developers-making-newpersona)

LOL at the pic they used.

Anyway, I wish he mentioned the system they are developing it for. The interview was given to Dengeki Playstation but I'm afraid it might end up on the PSP. I wonder if we can expect to see it this year in japan. I hope it doesn't take as long to reach the west as P3 and P4, that was torture.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Gen Eric Gui on March 24, 2010, 08:51:03 AM
Quote
I hope it doesn't take as long to reach the west as P3 and P4, that was torture.

Uh...P4 was translated in RECORD time.  We got it faster then any other SMT game that I'm aware of.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Fadedsun on March 24, 2010, 09:27:03 AM
I hope it's not released any time soon. I'm all Persona'd out at the moment. It would great if they brought back Kaneko as the artist for the series, even though I do like Soejima's art for P3 and P4.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: citizenchris099 on March 24, 2010, 10:09:40 AM
Katsura Hashino talks Persona 5.

http://kotaku.com/5500764/persona-developers-making-newpersona (http://kotaku.com/5500764/persona-developers-making-newpersona)

LOL at the pic they used.

Anyway, I wish he mentioned the system they are developing it for. The interview was given to Dengeki Playstation but I'm afraid it might end up on the PSP. I wonder if we can expect to see it this year in japan. I hope it doesn't take as long to reach the west as P3 and P4, that was torture.

P5 for PS3 PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: CDFN on March 24, 2010, 10:10:47 AM
Quote
I hope it doesn't take as long to reach the west as P3 and P4, that was torture.

Uh...P4 was translated in RECORD time.  We got it faster then any other SMT game that I'm aware of.

It was still too long.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Lard on March 24, 2010, 12:55:22 PM

Anyway, I wish he mentioned the system they are developing it for. The interview was given to Dengeki Playstation but I'm afraid it might end up on the PSP. I wonder if we can expect to see it this year in japan. I hope it doesn't take as long to reach the west as P3 and P4, that was torture.

P5 for PS3 PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!!!



It'll more than likely be for handhelds, given Atlus' track record the past few years.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Jet16 on March 24, 2010, 12:56:39 PM
Well, Strange Journey is shaping up to be the best RPG that came out this month.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Fadedsun on March 24, 2010, 12:58:19 PM
Well, Strange Journey is shaping up to be the best RPG that came out this month.

As if there was any doubt.

Edit: Just got my copy in the mail!!! Packaging is nice. I've been hearing all over the Atlus boards that the CD included with the preorder is a data cd and won't play on CD players. I heard it rips fine on Macs, though.

I don't have time to play it today, but I'll definitely digging my claws into it over the weekend.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: MeshGearFox on March 24, 2010, 05:59:00 PM
Went and got this. I haven't played it yet because I went to home depot afterwards and bought a nipple cactus, and as soon as I got back to my dorm (walking to and from gamestop is like, an hour and a half process) I had to unpot the cactus, and then I was fuckken hungry so I went to the dorm across the way to get some stew.

Anyway, I'm going into self-induced exile for a week (or more) until I can actually finish some of the milestones for Boolean RPG. I haven't worked on that since Christmas, and since I dropped OpenGL class I feel like programming on my own again.

So... I'll give my impressions then.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Jet16 on March 25, 2010, 01:13:37 AM
Well, Strange Journey is shaping up to be the best RPG that came out this month.

As if there was any doubt.

I didn't have any doubts that it would be, but the disparity between the quality of the titles still surprised me. The story and setting so far is interesting, and the music, the music is just great. Meguro has created another soundtrack that both fits and further defines the game's atmosphere. I'm really glad I got the actual soundtrack, as the one Atlus generously included only has 10 of the 31 songs. I don't think I've been disappointed by anything Meguro has made yet, even the oft despised Persona 3 and 4 soundtracks had some great battle tunes and some slower ones like Memories of the City which are glossed over when people mention them. However, all the other songs that do successfully fit the style of the games are really boring by themselves. That doesn't seem to be the case with Strange Journey, I really look forward to listening to the soundtrack in its entirety later. Finally, the battle system is what you'd expect from a Shin Megami Tensei game and it's still as addictive as ever. 
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: kyuusei on March 25, 2010, 01:39:59 AM
I hope it's not released any time soon. I'm all Persona'd out at the moment. It would great if they brought back Kaneko as the artist for the series, even though I do like Soejima's art for P3 and P4.

If it's PS3... it might be a while. I wonder if it would be PSP myself, but the rumor's been PS3, but who knows.

I love Kaneko's art too, I'd love to see him do it again.

I'm glad I'm not the only one that enjoyed SJ's soundtrack - I can't wait to actually hear it in-game. :P
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Dizzy on March 25, 2010, 07:51:04 AM
I love every Meguro soundtrack ever, and the tracks for SJ hasn't disappointed me yet, from the ones I heard. I don't think Meguro has ever disappointed me yet. His range of music is so wide. <3
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: daschrier on March 25, 2010, 09:12:09 AM
Does anyone know if bestbuy is planning to carry Strange Journey? I know they don't typically carry the niche Atlus titles but have had bigger ones such as P3/P4 etc.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: citizenchris099 on March 25, 2010, 09:21:44 AM
Well, Strange Journey is shaping up to be the best RPG that came out this month.

As if there was any doubt.

I didn't have any doubts that it would be, but the disparity between the quality of the titles still surprised me. The story and setting so far is interesting, and the music, the music is just great. Meguro has created another soundtrack that both fits and further defines the game's atmosphere. I'm really glad I got the actual soundtrack, as the one Atlus generously included only has 10 of the 31 songs. I don't think I've been disappointed by anything Meguro has made yet, even the oft despised Persona 3 and 4 soundtracks had some great battle tunes and some slower ones like Memories of the City which are glossed over when people mention them. However, all the other songs that do successfully fit the style of the games are really boring by themselves. That doesn't seem to be the case with Strange Journey, I really look forward to listening to the soundtrack in its entirety later. Finally, the battle system is what you'd expect from a Shin Megami Tensei game and it's still as addictive as ever. 

Maybe I'm living in my own P3/4 soundtrack loving world...seriously these or oft despised? They are so much fun and are as important to the atmosphere of the games as the art imho. Anyhoo I love Meguro's work...I have a massive playlist on my Zune of all my Mega Ten soundtracks and I just shuffle em most of the time.
Been holding off on the SJ soundtrack untill after I at least get a chance to boot the game lol.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: MeshGearFox on March 25, 2010, 10:03:11 AM
fffuck self imposed exile. BRPG can wait. I'll limit myself to one post a day, so this'll be long.

First, a question.

Code: [Select]
Is it possible to get Jiminez to die instead of Gore? It's vaguely implied that you can stop Gore from going into that battle, but I'm not sure if that dialogue choice makes a difference in the story or just affects your alignment.
Second, the music. While I can't really imagine listening to the bulk of it *outside* of the game, the dark, percussion-driven ambiance of it sets the mood perfectly *in* game. It's atonal, dissonant, and paranoid, which doesn't make it good for casual listening the same way you could do with P3's music, but it does fit the whole "going into the unknown" theme. The ones on the CD are definitely more melody driven and listenable on their own, so the selection makes sense. The dungeon themes seem like they're more variations on a single leitmotif (so far). The audio quality is wonderful. The drums actually have punch to them. I mean, not that I doubt the DS's audio capabilities. I have Korg DS-10. But still.

Anyway, gameplay. It's cool they used the EO engine. It moves a lot faster than EO, though. Battles are quicker, there's more savepoints, and there's a more directed sense of progression.

Dungeon layouts -- the two floors I've seen so far of Antlia in any case -- I like more than in EO. Both floors have used a hub-and-spoke design, which is more manageable than EO's somewhat meandering layouts. I doubt there's going to be anything as awesome as Nocturn's Diet Building though, but you can't really do something like that in the kind of 2.5D SJ uses. Oh, I do like how the ice parts of Antlia remind me of Dezo in phantasy star 1.

Not sure how I feel about press turn getting removed. The ganging up system is great, though. I like how alignment's really important again, since it was really de-emphasized in Nocturne and didn't have much of a gameplay affect in DS2. Also, the ganging up stuff makes it more interesting than just LOL U R LAW CAN'T RECRUIT ME~~ which just sort of got annoying in SMT1 and 2. Also really liked how you could use your demons to help in conversations in DS2. I'd like to see that in another game, though its omission here doesn't bug me.

The way analyze works is cool in that it's sort of this weird mix of what Persona 3 did with DS2's loyalty system. Actually, I like the suit in general. It gives it a nice metroidvania aspect. I thought the devilyzer addons in the Devil Children games was a neat idea and I'm glad they revived that in the form of Sub Apps.

And I think they got the scientist/soldier exploration mood down reeaal fine.

I named my dude Alden Gray, after Neil Alden Armstrong and Zane Grey. The first man on the moon and a Wild West novelist. Seems appropriate.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: CDFN on March 25, 2010, 10:08:14 AM
Well, Strange Journey is shaping up to be the best RPG that came out this month.

As if there was any doubt.

I didn't have any doubts that it would be, but the disparity between the quality of the titles still surprised me. The story and setting so far is interesting, and the music, the music is just great. Meguro has created another soundtrack that both fits and further defines the game's atmosphere. I'm really glad I got the actual soundtrack, as the one Atlus generously included only has 10 of the 31 songs. I don't think I've been disappointed by anything Meguro has made yet, even the oft despised Persona 3 and 4 soundtracks had some great battle tunes and some slower ones like Memories of the City which are glossed over when people mention them. However, all the other songs that do successfully fit the style of the games are really boring by themselves. That doesn't seem to be the case with Strange Journey, I really look forward to listening to the soundtrack in its entirety later. Finally, the battle system is what you'd expect from a Shin Megami Tensei game and it's still as addictive as ever. 

Maybe I'm living in my own P3/4 soundtrack loving world...seriously these or oft despised? They are so much fun and are as important to the atmosphere of the games as the art imho. Anyhoo I love Meguro's work...I have a massive playlist on my Zune of all my Mega Ten soundtracks and I just shuffle em most of the time.
Been holding off on the SJ soundtrack untill after I at least get a chance to boot the game lol.


My thoughts exactly. Obviously not everybody likes them but oft despised? Hell, I've been playing the hell out of the Persona Music Live dvd, it's friggin' amazing! Meguro, I bow to thy.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Jet16 on March 25, 2010, 10:13:07 AM
Does anyone know if bestbuy is planning to carry Strange Journey? I know they don't typically carry the niche Atlus titles but have had bigger ones such as P3/P4 etc.
Nothing comes up on their site. I don't remember seeing Devil Survivor in their store either, but I could be wrong.

Maybe I'm living in my own P3/4 soundtrack loving world...seriously these or oft despised?
I've mostly seen indifference or hate towards the soundtracks, and of the two it's usually the latter. Again, I don't think it's warranted but it's what I've seen, and I could have somehow passed over positive opinions on the soundtracks. I've seen these comments on other gaming websites and some podcasts I've listened to.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Fadedsun on March 25, 2010, 10:27:08 AM
A lot of the old school Megaten heads have particular hate towards the music in P3+4. The games in general, actually. Personally, I enjoy both soundtracks as well as both games. I don't have any aversion towards the older games over the new either. Of the ones that I've played, I like them all.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: kyuusei on March 25, 2010, 10:54:44 AM
Maybe I'm living in my own P3/4 soundtrack loving world...seriously these or oft despised? They are so much fun and are as important to the atmosphere of the games as the art imho. Anyhoo I love Meguro's work...I have a massive playlist on my Zune of all my Mega Ten soundtracks and I just shuffle em most of the time.

From what I've heard... yes. They're pretty light/upbeat and not your typical SMT soundtrack, I think they're just too different for some people. To me they're not my favorite SMT soundtracks ever, but they're fun and fit their games well just like Meguro's other SMT soundtracks.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Kevadu on March 25, 2010, 12:26:31 PM
Maybe I'm living in my own P3/4 soundtrack loving world...seriously these or oft despised? They are so much fun and are as important to the atmosphere of the games as the art imho. Anyhoo I love Meguro's work...I have a massive playlist on my Zune of all my Mega Ten soundtracks and I just shuffle em most of the time.
Been holding off on the SJ soundtrack untill after I at least get a chance to boot the game lol.

Well, I wouldn't say I hate the soundtrack as a whole, but I must say that I found P3's battle theme very irritating by the end of the game.  It's not something I mind listening to once or twice but for the amount of time you spend listening to it in that game it just didn't work for me...I actually found myself trying to finish all my battles before the chorus kicked in.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Itches on March 25, 2010, 12:28:27 PM
I haven't played Devil Survivor or Strange Journey. So far, which would you say is shaping up to be better as far as gameplay and story goes (guesstimates obviously since Strange Journey just came out)?
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Lard on March 25, 2010, 12:38:01 PM
Strange Journey
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Fadedsun on March 25, 2010, 12:42:09 PM
Strange Journey

Strange Journey has the better game play, but I'm not sure if it'll end up having the better story. The story for Devil Survivor is really interesting. I'll save my judgment for when I finish Strange Journey.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: MeshGearFox on March 25, 2010, 12:43:22 PM
Re: P3 OST, Prime Mover hates it, Prime Mover also hates Mitsuda but likes the Blue Dragon boss music, etc.

Anyway, Devil Survivor's story is very character driven. SJ I'm not in far enough to really judge the story, but typically mainline SMT games aren't hugely story driven

Gameplay wise it's hard to compare, because they don't play even remotely similarly. Devil Survivor's a strategy RPG. SMT: SJ's a dungeon crawl. I think the biggest with with DS's gameplay isn't really a gameplay issue at all, but rather the fact that it's got a rather nasty crash bug. I can't really speak of DS' gameplay in comparison to other strategy RPGs because I don't generally play them because I think a lot of them are rather slow and repetitive. In comparison to the only other DS strategy RPG I played, DS is faster paced than Front Mission and I'd say it's deeper as well.

Theoretically I prefer demon convos to the auction system. Realistically, the auction's still fun, and convos wouldn't really work in that style of game.

So basically it's a matter of whether or not you want a dungeon crawler or a strategy game.

shit would be so cash if you could trade demons to HeartGold/SoulSilver and Pokemon to SJ.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: cj_iwakura on March 25, 2010, 01:28:42 PM
One SMT demon would devour the entire cast of Pokemon.


I really love SJ's music so far. Very ambient.

I think it's funny that so far, Devil Survivor was bloodier. Corpses would have pools of blood under them.


SJ is definitely darker though, especially in language and tone.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Eusis on March 25, 2010, 01:34:33 PM
One SMT demon would devour the entire cast of Pokemon.

Depends on the rendition (http://blog.livedoor.jp/agraphlog-asamegraph/temp/pokehyaku.html).
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Fadedsun on March 25, 2010, 01:52:28 PM
Those are like Okami versions of Pokemon. They look so much better than their original designs.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: MeshGearFox on March 25, 2010, 03:44:35 PM
What about some of the fourth gen pokeymans? The ones that could like, warp time and space?

Actually some of the pokemon are terrifying. like parasect, when you realize it's a bug being mind controlled by a mushroom. Notice how cute Paras' eyes are? Notice how Parasect's eyes are *completely dead*?
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Eusis on March 25, 2010, 04:17:21 PM
What about some of the fourth gen pokeymans? The ones that could like, warp time and space?
That's what I was thinking too, a handful could very plausibly stand toe to toe with the MegaTen demons.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Raziel on March 25, 2010, 06:04:17 PM
Until Patrick Stewart shows up, that is.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Raziel on March 26, 2010, 10:35:04 AM
Anyway, I think that the new game should make bigger changes. Maybe keep the Turn-Press battle system in some shape or form, but do away with Social Links. Yes, I think they were excellent additions to P3 and P4, but I think they shouldn't be the defining aspects of Persona.

I personally would like a more darker approach, maybe with psychological horror and everything. Oh well, let's wait and see.


Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: CDFN on March 26, 2010, 10:41:18 AM
P3 and P4 were very similar indeed so it will have to feel fresh this time. That being said, I would miss the social aspect if they removed it because if you take that away from P3 you're basically left with the answer part of FES.
Maybe they'll come up with something new and just as great but one thing is certain, expectations are high and will be hard to meet.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Fadedsun on March 26, 2010, 10:45:52 AM
Anyway, I think that the new game should make bigger changes. Maybe keep the Turn-Press battle system in some shape or form, but do away with Social Links. Yes, I think they were excellent additions to P3 and P4, but I think they shouldn't be the defining aspects of Persona.

I personally would like a more darker approach, maybe with psychological horror and everything. Oh well, let's wait and see.




I don't think we'll see a dark return to Persona unless Kaneko is the artist again, but who knows. Moving away from Social Links might be a good idea. A third time might be too much, but new fans of the series have come to expect it, so they might not want to take too many risks with change.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Alisha on March 26, 2010, 11:32:42 AM
i'm glad they are making a new persona cause i cant get into the DS smt games with combat that barely looks better than DQ1 =/
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: MeshGearFox on March 26, 2010, 11:36:51 AM
i'm glad they are making a new persona cause i cant get into the DS smt games with combat that barely looks better than DQ1 =/

http://www.mash123.com/news/wp-content/uploads/image/c443474b94ourney.jpg
http://www.mobygames.com/game/nes/dragon-warrior/screenshots/gameShotId,42500/

This is why nobody takes your posts about "women being under-represented in FPSes" and whatever else seriously.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Fadedsun on March 26, 2010, 11:39:49 AM
i'm glad they are making a new persona cause i cant get into the DS smt games with combat that barely looks better than DQ1 =/

Don't be a graphics whore. You're missing out on some really great games because of it.

I've read a few reviews of Strange Journey where they mentioned that even though they have a PS3 with FF13 and Dragon Age in them, Strange Journey was keeping their attention a lot more. A quality game with good game play that may not have killer graphics is much better than some game with crazy production values and amazing graphics that doesn't deliver a good game play experience.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Alisha on March 26, 2010, 11:51:23 AM
i'm not a graphics whore i just like to see the characters attack even if its something as simple as how its done in ps2 and 4.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Aeolus on March 27, 2010, 11:52:37 AM
i'm not a graphics whore i just like to see the characters attack even if its something as simple as how its done in ps2 and 4.

And yet you didn't even like FFVI either for that very reason.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: MeshGearFox on March 27, 2010, 10:08:50 PM
Something I noticed last night when looking for a Koppa Tengu in SJ. It doesn't seem that monster groups get re-selected if you run. That is, you'll keep hitting the same five encounters over and over again unless you kill (or maybe talk) your way out of the fights.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Alisha on March 28, 2010, 01:34:22 PM
i'm not a graphics whore i just like to see the characters attack even if its something as simple as how its done in ps2 and 4.

And yet you didn't even like FFVI either for that very reason.

despite some of the arguements i was using, in the case of FFVI it was more the gba remake that bugged me. going from fire emblem the sacred stones to FFVI is like culture shock.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: MeshGearFox on March 28, 2010, 03:13:52 PM
It's a first-person battle system. Technically they could show the character's/demon's arm jutting out and slashing the enemy across the screen but that would look bloody fucking stupid.

Realistically speaking, apparently they didn't have enough space on the memory card for a quicksave slot in addition to two hard-save slots. Which means they probably wouldn't have enough space to do animations for the 318 demons + human characters, because you'd need at least four additional animation sets per character (Regular attack and magic attack as an enemy, and regular attack and magic attack for the party). And as I said, that's strictly if you're just doing generic attack and spell animations.

So, that means they either get rid of a save slot (Hi, game with branching plotline. Nobody wants that), reduce the number of animation frames to the point where you might as well have just cut the animations all together (Obviously, wouldn't work), compressed the music a lot (Given the amount of vocal and percussion in it, this really couldn't be done and still have something discernibly 'music' as the end result), or cut content.

Even barring that, it's a lot of extra work, and it wouldn't be very noticeable and in a worst-case scenario, the attack animations would only serve to slow the battle system down. Fights are fairly frequent. I don't want them lasting for-fucking-ever because I have to sit through battle animations. Hell, that's why I have a hard time playing most turn-based PSX RPGs square made after FFVII. Even the *basic* attack animations last forever. FFIX and CC, I'm looking at you.

So, if they DID make the animations anyway, we're talking five times the work that they already did. Meaning they'd be paying for five times the man hours. Meaning that development costs could go up. How much? Who knows, but SMT: SJ is sort of a big risk in a NA. All of the titles are niche, sure, but an M-rated DS game? I'm pretty sure SJ's one of maybe five. While translation costs and development costs ARE different things, reduced profit on SJ as a result of more money spent doing more animations could've possibly dissuaded Atlus Japan from giving the localization go-ahead.

Back to specs, a second though, because this really important. Apparently the DS only has four megs of RAM. Additionally attack animations would've chewed that up fast and quite possibly could've caused performance to degrade. It's considered really, really bad development practice to waste memory with extraneous things that serve no real purpose, especially if performance is at stake.

---

Personally, my only complaint about graphics is that you don't see an NPC in a given tile till you've entered that tile. This is sort of present in a lot of dungeon crawls and it bugs me a little since its makes some of the sidequest NPCs easier to miss.

Anyway, my only major annoyance (other than that) with SJ so far is that don't count to 30 thing, since it requires you to find a particular sequence of numbers that confuses the AI instead of. ..

Wait it doesn't I'm retarded. Goddamit.

I think. Fuck.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Eusis on March 28, 2010, 03:18:06 PM
Realistically speaking, apparently they didn't have enough space on the memory card for a quicksave slot in addition to two hard-save slots. Which means they probably wouldn't have enough space to do animations for the 318 demons + human characters, because you'd need at least four additional animation sets per character (Regular attack and magic attack as an enemy, and regular attack and magic attack for the party). And as I said, that's strictly if you're just doing generic attack and spell animations.

Actually, from my experiences backing up my DS saves they always take a set amount of memory ranging from a few kilobytes to, I believe, 512kb at the max. They could've used the smallest DS cart and left it half unused, and they'd still have to make do with only 512kb of storage space. Maybe the 3DS will fix that, then a game like Strange Journey can go ahead and give us something like 3 save slots and a quick save instead.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: MeshGearFox on March 28, 2010, 03:23:09 PM
Well yeah, but I don't think Alisha knows that.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Alisha on March 28, 2010, 03:24:28 PM
out of curiosity i did a quick google search of strange journey rom and the listed file size was 97.4 megs. assuming they used a 100 meg cart that doesnt leave space for much else.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: CosmicSisyphus on April 03, 2010, 08:52:15 PM
Strange Journey

Strange Journey has the better game play, but I'm not sure if it'll end up having the better story. The story for Devil Survivor is really interesting. I'll save my judgment for when I finish Strange Journey.

I would actually say the story is very good. The plot may come off as clichéd, but there is a lot of thematic depth to be found.

Strange Journey seems to focus more on the sociological context of creation/apocalypse. Each area of Schwartzwelt was trying to make us aware of human issues. Pollution, hierarchical institutions, materialism, and so forth were all touched upon in the game. For example, read the Black Box retrievals:

Sector Antila Black Box A
Sector Antila looks like a monument to the history of human warfare. Crumbled buildings, smoky sky, that strange tower in the distance... It feels like an occupied city. The sector's main characteristic is the way it confronts you with death and destruction...

Sector Bootes Black Box B
Sector Bootes looks like it was designed to be a recreation of human pleasure and ecstasy. It's a kind of tacky, rococo palace with clashing color schemes and terrible taste. Everything, from the large jars to the smoke to the torture devices, makes me think of decadence...

Sector Carina Black Box C
Sector Carina looks like a shopping mall or a supermarket... the aisles are lined with consumer goods. They go one for miles, with more and more luxurious stuff on display as you go.

... and so forth *Note – these are not spoilers because I didn’t reveal any plot details. It is simply a basic thematic analysis given in an EX Mission which has no relevance to plot. This is not a spoiler and will not diminish one's enjoyment in the game.

Dale North, from Destructoid, does a good job explaining the social commentary:
Quote
"That's mostly what you'll be doing: exploring varied dimensions in an attempt to find your way out of this Schwarzwelt and regroup/not die. But instead of the demonic looking world you'd normally expect, each dimension's setting acts as a sort of social commentary on the world today. For instance, one dungeon looks like a demonic version of a shopping mall, and the message there seems to point to human consumption and greed, with the endless rows of food and "BUY! BUY! BUY!" signs everywhere. Another dungeon is a bit more horny, and looks like a massive red light district. Eventually you begin to see that the demon inhabitants of the Schwarzwelt disapprove of what humans have done with Earth, and the whole game ends up making you a bit more environmentally aware and perhaps a bit less proud to be a human. There's some deep and interesting parallels between how you use the demons and how humans use the Earth."

The story and atmosphere are both very good. You don't need long, drawn-out cinematic cut-scenes, such as Final Fantasy, for great art. It resembles Go Nagai’s MANGA Devilman. In Devilman this theme is explored by comparing paranoid humans to devilmen (creatures formed when a demon has failed to successively assimilate into a human with a strong sense of rationality). Who possesses real humanity: paranoid humans who torture others accused of being devilmen or the actual devilmen who choose to fight demons in the name of humanity? The paranoid, irrational humans are definitely an allusion to the European Dark Age and religion's paranoia of "black magic". Both are trying to make you aware of the Human Condition by heavily relying on Old Testament theology. The only difference… (spoiler)
Quote
is Strange Journey gives you the option to change Human Nature itself! This is where chaos vs. neutral vs. law comes into play. It ups player agency by giving you this option. I personally prefer chaos.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Farron on April 24, 2010, 07:49:52 PM
I'm playing Strage Journey and couldn't avoid thinking about the sequel to the game that brought me into this wonderful world of Atlus games, Persona. As recently stated by Atlus , Persona 5 is in the works, no platform yet, but chances are PS3 or maybe PSP (since it was announced on a Playstation only magazine. Source (http://www.geek.com/articles/games/atlus-confirms-persona-5-20100324/)

Now that it's officialy announced I can tell what I expect from the game. If it's on PS3, what I'd like to see more (of what's new, of course) would be cities like the ones in the Yakuza series. Well, not exactly and entire city, more like a neighborhood.
In Persona 4 for example, there's a main street in the town of Inaba. but it feels so short, especially because lots of the stores are closed and you can't even get in (I get it that it's a small town, but still is sad).

I don't need a continuous town, because I know it can get a bit costly, but if things were closer to each other, and I believe it would feel even better when the cutscenes happen in one place and when you move to the next you don't have to assume it's next, because it will really be there.
Another good exemple I though of was the train scene in Persona 3, everything feels like one smooth transition, because you start on the street, get on the train, get out and continue on with the rest.

To make it short, what I'd like is a place more lively. If we have a school, put more people in it, make it bigger. If we go to an onsen, let us walk to many places of it and see people doing whatever. Even if NPCs don't have many things interesting to say, it's nice to see them there. In a game like Yakuza it helps a lot to put you into the mood, and I've been to Tokyo, and it makes you feel like you are right there.
I don't need super crisp HD visuals for my next SMT game, (not that I'm against it) but what I want are details, and given the more powerful hardware, I believe it should be easier to put lots of things on screen without having to be afraid of losing framerate.

So, anyone else has something they would like to see in the next Megaten ?
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Starmongoose on April 24, 2010, 08:12:46 PM
In the next Megaten (more than likely the next Persona game because it's the only one that's been announced) I'm not sure what I would like to see. They kind of almost have all the theatrical things I'm interested in, and I love turn-based battles to death.

The social link system is fantastic. I would like them to keep it but upgrade it a little. I'm not sure how. Atlus are way ahead of me in terms of progressive thinking in JRPGS (and way ahead of alot of their competitors). Take it in any direction they want, as long as they keep the same standard of excellence. Maybe a Persona game in the 70's or 80's. I don't know why, it just seems like that time is mostly left alone in terms of story.

Of course you can't go too far back in time in Persona games because the whole point is that it's believable teenagers in a High School environment.

This is a very difficult question, it's a bit like if my favourite author came up to me and asked me what their next book should be about. I am merely a consumer, feed me and I shall consume.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: MeshGearFox on April 24, 2010, 10:04:10 PM
Quote
the whole point is that it's believable teenagers in a High School environment.

Persona 2: EP wasn't really about either. Actually the highschool setting was sort of downplayed in both P1 and IS. They had highschoolers and highschools but they weren't set in a highschool the same way 3 and 4 were.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Starmongoose on April 24, 2010, 10:09:56 PM
I have yet to play Persona, but I have played Innocent Sin and Eternal Punishment. Both, as you said, have High School kids and you do visit a few different High Schools. If they were to say go back to Feudal era Japan, would it have the same atmosphere and themes? I don't believe so, I was just saying that you can't go TOO far back, or too far forward, because it is to divorced from the Persona formula to be called Persona.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Kaspian on April 24, 2010, 11:04:22 PM
I've started playing SMT: Devil Survivor, and am quite enjoying it so far.  The mix of turn-based strategy and RPG are pretty good.  Still trying to decide which demons I like best, though.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Cyril on April 25, 2010, 01:55:50 AM
My general SMT desires;

Family-Specific Traits and skills, like Devil Survivor.
The ability to switch between First and Third person.  I have no problem with first-person viewpoints, but sometimes I just want to run around in third.
If there's going to be alignments, stop sticking with the "same-old" SMT cliches that haven't changed since SMT1.  Maybe spice it up a bit and make neutral the worst choice or do something more like Nocturne and make the "moral choices" a bit more varied.  We get it, Law represents "structure and order" and Chaos "freedom."
Lucifer being the player character, or a "side-quest/story" playing as him.  You could kinda do it in Abaddon, go all the way, Atlus!
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: CosmicSisyphus on April 26, 2010, 02:14:39 AM
I would enjoy seeing more surreal imagery and thematic depth.

Shin Megami Tensei: Nocturne had some intense symbolic imagery. If Carl Jung had the opportunity to play Nocturne or Shin Megami Tensei: Nocturne he'd be baffled by how they literally epitomize the collective unconscious.

Nocturne had a good amount of depth, but I wish the True Demon Ending included... (spoilers)

Quote
A battle with YHVH like Shin Megami Tensei 2.

Each Kotowari symbolized a core philosophy for Creation (e.g., Shijima resembles Nirvana for everyone, Yosuga resembles an uber Social Darwinism, and etc.). The atmosphere was incredible in many areas, and I wish Megaten would followed the style of Digital Devil Saga or Nocturne. This is why I do not enjoy Persona 3 or Persona 4 because they seem catered towards another demographic unlike Nocturne or Digital Devil Saga.

Digital Devil Saga's synthesis of Hindu mythology (e.g., pantheism and Brahman) and an apocalyptic story worked well too.

I also liked how Nocturne hinted at parallel universes and probable worlds (AKA modal realism). Huge Nocturne spoilers:

Quote
Lucifer explains how the Amala Network is the infrastructure connecting multiple universes. This explains why the Demi-fiend is seen in Digital Devil Saga. His words actually make sense in context with this.

Overall, I want the series to take more risks like Shin Megami Tensei: 2. In an age of religious fundamentalism, this seems highly unlikely though.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Gen Eric Gui on April 26, 2010, 11:51:10 AM
Quote
In an age of religious fundamentalism

I really don't think Japan cares.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: MeshGearFox on April 26, 2010, 04:02:01 PM
Quote
If Carl Jung had the opportunity to play Nocturne or Shin Megami Tensei: Nocturne he'd be baffled by how they literally epitomize the collective unconscious.

He'd also be baffled by the notion of videogames in general, probably.

Quote
This is why I do not enjoy Persona 3 or Persona 4

The entire Persona series draws heavily on Jung's work. Nothing in Nocturne really did.

Fact checking dude.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: CosmicSisyphus on April 26, 2010, 04:54:13 PM
Quote
The entire Persona series draws heavily on Jung's work. Nothing in Nocturne really did.

Fact checking dude.

I didn't mean they literally draw influence from his work; I meant it in the sense you have a bunch of mythological beings and intense symbolic imagery. It's like The Red Book's consciousness, to use crude wording, in video game form.

Persona 3 and 4's character art style's detract from the seriousness of the work (i.g., chibi characters do not fit in the SMT universe). I prefer Kazuma Kaneko's character art styles (e.g., DDS, If..., Persona 2, and so forth). Moreover, I do not like the emphasis on social links and so forth.

This is why I did not enjoy Devil Survivor. The character designs were hilarious.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Gen Eric Gui on April 26, 2010, 05:26:46 PM
Devil Survivor and Persona hardly use "chibi" style.

Honestly, the idea that the art style could restrict a game from being serious is ludicrous to me.  Just because the art style isn't GRIMDARK doesn't mean the game can't make a strong point or be be thought provoking.  I mean, even the THOUGHT of not enjoying Devil Survivor because cat ear headphones look kind of silly seems so immature and utterly...depressing to me.

I mean, I agree that Nocturne was a deeper experience then Persona 3/4, but it's most certainly not because of the artwork and the graphics.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: MeshGearFox on April 26, 2010, 05:42:25 PM
Also the Persona 3 dude's art style's not THAT hugely different from Kaneko's anyway. I don't really like the character modeling as much (mostly because I thought they were sort of bland looking* compared to the enemies) but their slightly odd proportions was just a throwback to the spritework in P1 and P2, I guess.

I was actually more of a fan of Survivor's artwork since it tended to be a bit more expressive than P3's. More animeish, but... more expressive. In terms of the more SD sprites Devil Survivor used, most tactical strategy games that work in a lower resolution do that. And I don't mean just SRPGs or Japanese games. It's international. You need a big screen and a better resolution to do realistic proportions right in a tactical strategy game unless it gets visually confusing which is something you DO NOT want happening.

Western examples?

http://www.ibiblio.org/GameBytes/issue19/greviews/ufo2.gif <- X: Com is probably the most famous case. Dudes are about four heads tall.

http://forevergeek.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/jagged-alliance_2.png <- Jagged Alliance 1 to a lesser extent.

http://www.peterhe.com/pcgameimage/Heroes_of_Might_and_Magic/screenshot2.jpg <- HoMM2's proportional but cartoony. One of the most common complaints about 3 and 4, which looked more realistic, is that it was harder to tell at a glance what was what/looked worse.

Not to mention a bunch of DOS RPGs with tactical combat.

Realistic graphics are just sort of awkward with strategy games because they don't give very immediate feedback.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Starmongoose on April 26, 2010, 06:03:31 PM
Matter of opinion but I thought Devil Survivor had impressive graphics and artsyle compared to other SRPGS. Especially the demons. Each demon had a particular way of moving, some had 6 legs, some had none. Some had wings, some didn't. As for the characters I thought they were well detailed and were good sprite forms of their 2-D static images used for story scenes.

The sprites seemed for streamlined compared to some other SRPGS which had maybe clunkier or a lower polygon count. You know, those characters that sometimes have square heads.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: CosmicSisyphus on April 26, 2010, 06:23:39 PM
Quote from: MeshGearFox
More animeish, but... more expressive.

Well, I'm the type that prefers minimalism instead of too much dramatization (e.g., something like Death in Venice versus Shawshank Redemption in terms of cinematography). Furthermore, I'd rather have thematic depth over too much character development, hence why I defended Strange Journey.

Also, I agree, Gen Eric Gui, but the art style and atmosphere were two huge attributes to Nocturne's style.

"Just because the art style isn't GRIMDARK doesn't mean the game can't make a strong point or be be thought provoking."

I think it's a matter of context. I love Mother 2 and 3's art style, but I do not think it fits particularly well in the Shin Megami Tensei universe. I like Osamu Tezuka's character art (e.g., his mature and dark MW), but I don't think it's accustomed for Shin Megami Tensei games. Of course, art style is simply just one attribute and does not determine the seriousness of a piece of art as my reference to Tezuka's Gekiga (i.g., MW, Ayako, Phoenix, Buddha, and etc.) indicates...

Granted, I apologize for stating my preference as a fact; I should have made that more obvious.

Also, X-Com is not a good comparison. It tries to depict symbolic imagery rather than display expressive, cartoony graphics: "It runs on our idea of what suburban America or the sands of Egypt look like, not the reality, because reality is not as real to us as the symbols, to get into some Baudrillard. It’s all symbolic and pop-cultural. These are pop-cultural aliens invading a pop-cultural earth to be “defended”, I use that term loosely, by a pop-cultural government conspiracy. And it feels real. With those beautiful isometric graphics and that haunting music, it feels real" (Sagrillo).

Source of Quote
http://www.cosmicmaher.com/?p=194
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: MeshGearFox on April 26, 2010, 06:27:38 PM
Quote
Osamu Tezuka

Oh shit. A megaten game with Tezuka art.

Fucking want.

Quote
It tries to depict symbolic imagery rather than display expressive, cartoony graphics

Actually it did try to do expressive, cartoony graphics. The art style's really heavily influenced by anime and 80's western comic book art. When the sequels got away from that people got annoyed (although, personally, I LIKE the wet meat puppet look Apoc had going).

Quote
It’s all symbolic and pop-cultural.

Right. And being a symbolic, pop-cultural representation of things is the entire driving force behind why comics and anime exist. It's a very specific kind of non-realism that's NOT abstract and thus HAS to work with symbols.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: CosmicSisyphus on April 26, 2010, 09:00:50 PM
Nothing wrong with that. I just prefer Kaneko or Amano's illustrations for intense, symbolic art.

You and Maher are differently right about X-COM though.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Farron on April 26, 2010, 10:20:55 PM
If megaten is in fact going HD, having an artstyle similar to Tales of Vesperia seems to do the job of looking good while still maintaining the anime feel. I think Vesperia is too much on the cute side, but considering if they'll keep the semi-static anime portraits in character dialogue or not it could work.

I don't know if a cel-shading look could remove that dark mood of the game because we usually associate cel-shading with colorful things and all, even Crackdown and Borderlands look happier then I believe the developers who made them wanted to.

On the other hand, I full 3D look as Resonance of Fate, Star Ocean or even more serious like FFXIII could work for the better because we can have much more details, plus the world feels more lifelike instead of "animeish". As for the artwork, I prefer much more the looks of Persona 3 & 4 (anyone knows who did the characters ?) edit (Just found out: Shigenori Soejima, for Persona 4 at least)
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: MeshGearFox on April 27, 2010, 12:03:14 AM
Quote
cel-shading

Nocturne was cel-shaded. I'm pretty sure the DDS games were too. It was a much SUBTLER kind of cel-shading, but still.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Farron on April 27, 2010, 06:04:14 AM
True. I kinda forgot it when posting. So there we go, it should work just fine, if not better.
I just feel said they don't have the same money as Square-Enix to spare on advertising, if they did their games would be getting much more attention! Not to mention, raise the production value of their games.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Starmongoose on April 27, 2010, 07:31:08 AM
With popularity comes the morons. And when the morons come, you get demands of "Faster! Better Graphics! Shorter Cutscenes!".
Then Atlus will start feeling the pressure. If they are happy with the sales they are getting at the moment (They usually go beyond their sales predictions, don't they?) then it's safe to say money won't come in the way of artistic integrity.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: MeshGearFox on April 27, 2010, 09:53:06 AM
SMT's already faster and has shorter cutscenes than most JRPGs, which is probably one of the reasons I still like it >:/
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Starmongoose on April 27, 2010, 10:06:13 AM
SMT's already faster and has shorter cutscenes than most JRPGs, which is probably one of the reasons I still like it >:/

Are you only including the main SMT games? If so, that is true. Cutscenes are few and far between, and very short. However if we were to count the likes of Persona 3 + 4, as well as Devil Survivor you would spend a large chuck of gameplay in cutscenes and story related events.

Personally I like both, I think main SMT says what it needs to in a small about of time, whilst Persona and other spin-offs indulge you in more characterization and intrigue.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Farron on April 27, 2010, 07:03:11 PM
With popularity comes the morons. And when the morons come, you get demands of "Faster! Better Graphics! Shorter Cutscenes!".
Then Atlus will start feeling the pressure. If they are happy with the sales they are getting at the moment (They usually go beyond their sales predictions, don't they?) then it's safe to say money won't come in the way of artistic integrity.

You have a really good point. That's probably why everybody loves Atlus, because they aren't trying to make an RPG int oa FPS just for the sake of being popular (and yes, I liked FFXIII but I completely understand why a lot of people didn't).
As for Persona 3, 4 and Devil Survivor, I beleive I enjoyed them much more than any other SMT game is especially of the lengthy cutscenes. Probably that's why I liked FFXIII as well, or Xenosaga, and the list goes on.

But Atlus makes everbody happy, since they seem to alternate well between the story focused to the dungeon focused games.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: MeshGearFox on April 27, 2010, 08:04:10 PM
Quote
make an RPG int oa FPS just for the sake of being popular (and yes, I liked FFXIII but I completely understand why a lot of people didn't).

Heeeh? How is FFXIII an FPS, unless I'm missing something...?
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Starmongoose on April 27, 2010, 08:07:22 PM
Quote
make an RPG int oa FPS just for the sake of being popular (and yes, I liked FFXIII but I completely understand why a lot of people didn't).

Heeeh? How is FFXIII an FPS, unless I'm missing something...?

I think that was just the result of poor sentence structure. I think Farron just meant that Final Fantasy XIII was similar to an FPS is the sense that it was faster, stronger and more action rather than drama orientated.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: CosmicSisyphus on April 28, 2010, 12:46:43 AM
With popularity comes the morons. And when the morons come, you get demands of "Faster! Better Graphics! Shorter Cutscenes!".
Then Atlus will start feeling the pressure. If they are happy with the sales they are getting at the moment (They usually go beyond their sales predictions, don't they?) then it's safe to say money won't come in the way of artistic integrity.

Yeah, that's not really what I was really saying.

Just making sure it wasn't indirectly aimed at me, that's all.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Eusis on April 28, 2010, 12:58:02 AM
There's plenty of drama in XIII though, even if it's not necessarily good! But it's more like an FPS in structure; having faster and more action packed battles is just part of it. There's the linearity of it, encounters that are set to be easily redoable upon failure, and the fact it pretty much urges you to move forward and progress the narrative.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Farron on April 28, 2010, 09:18:55 PM
Quote
make an RPG int oa FPS just for the sake of being popular (and yes, I liked FFXIII but I completely understand why a lot of people didn't).

Heeeh? How is FFXIII an FPS, unless I'm missing something...?

I think that was just the result of poor sentence structure. I think Farron just meant that Final Fantasy XIII was similar to an FPS is the sense that it was faster, stronger and more action rather than drama orientated.
That's it. I should have expressed myself better.
Square-Enix themselves claimed that FFXIII wasn't an RPG when they were making it... Why they would say that is beyond me. But by that I understand that's the same Starmongoose understood from what I said.

They probably tried to give the game a pacing as fast as a popular FPS or Third person game. What they should've thought is that if I wanted a fast paced 3rd Person game I'd play God of War, Devil May Cry, Ninja Gaiden or whatever.

I'll try to stop here, or else this topic will became another FFXIII discussion, like any other on the internet where we talk about an RPG and it ends in FFXIII.

Back to SMT, I was watching a video of the good ending of Persona 4 (I only got the normal ending) and I remembered something, which probably is my only complain about the series: Why is it so hard to get items ? I mean, not the usual stuff you can buy on store but some items the restore your MP, or give you full-life; they are super rare. And I do understand to not give you it in the beginning of the game but later on, there could be a higher drop rate or at least show up more on those random treasure chests.

And it's not only in Persona, others as well, if I'm not mistaken.
By that I don't mean to make the games easier but at least for us to have more variety as to how approach bosses and what spells to use.

Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Kevadu on April 28, 2010, 10:15:51 PM
Back to SMT, I was watching a video of the good ending of Persona 4 (I only got the normal ending) and I remembered something, which probably is my only complain about the series: Why is it so hard to get items ? I mean, not the usual stuff you can buy on store but some items the restore your MP, or give you full-life; they are super rare. And I do understand to not give you it in the beginning of the game but later on, there could be a higher drop rate or at least show up more on those random treasure chests.

In Persona 4 at least I'm pretty sure that it's a design decision.  They got rid of the fatigue system from Persona 3 so really the only thing that limited how much dungeon-crawling you could do in a given day was your MP.

Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Starmongoose on April 28, 2010, 10:17:01 PM
Quote
Back to SMT, I was watching a video of the good ending of Persona 4 (I only got the normal ending) and I remembered something, which probably is my only complain about the series: Why is it so hard to get items ? I mean, not the usual stuff you can buy on store but some items the restore your MP, or give you full-life; they are super rare. And I do understand to not give you it in the beginning of the game but later on, there could be a higher drop rate or at least show up more on those random treasure chests.

And it's not only in Persona, others as well, if I'm not mistaken.
By that I don't mean to make the games easier but at least for us to have more variety as to how approach bosses and what spells to use.

Persona doesn't give us the sort of MP recovery drop rate that we are used to, but seriously - now when I replay Persona or SMT, I have more Soma Drops, Snuff Souls than I did Medicines. Why? Because I learned to save them, out of the unknown fear that I might DIRELY need one. And the fear at the end, made me stop using them all together.

I do not think It would hurt the game that much to include more SP recovery items (rather than spending 2 hours get TaP soda out of a vending machine), however I am now beyond redemption so It doesn't matter so much to me.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: MeshGearFox on April 28, 2010, 11:19:57 PM
Apparently using items in SMT games can make you insanely powerful. I have no idea how this playstyle works though.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Starmongoose on April 28, 2010, 11:27:14 PM
Apparently using items in SMT games can make you insanely powerful. I have no idea how this playstyle works though.

It helps, but I don't think it makes you insanely powerful. Nothing in SMT makes you insanely powerful. You always run the risk of losing to a random battle.

Even if you reach maximum level the game basically goes "Yeah? So what, *Mind Charge + Megidolaon*. Fuck you."
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Gen Eric Gui on April 29, 2010, 12:42:00 AM
Dude, just start fucking using the items.  You get MORE than enough SP restoratives for when it matters.  I mean, P4 limited them because it was trying to encourage a balance between paying the Fox for healing and having to leave the TV to rest up a day.  But every other Megaten game supplies SP healing out the ass, there's no reason to not be spamming those items to keep yourself alive and healthy.  Persona 3 generally handed you about 4-5 power heals after every single bossfight, Nocturne handed them out like candy, Strange Journey lets you buy nearly every kind of healing item possible, and the list goes on.

And lol, short supply on full HP heals?  Healing yourself to full HP is about the easiest thing you can possibly do in a Megaten game.  Not only do your characters regularaly get access to Diarahan and Mediarahan around level 50 (Which is usually less than halfway into the game), but enemies shit out Life Stones and Beads in greater amounts then they do Macca in some instances.  Either you guys had really, really, really bad luck in getting items drops, or you just didn't pay attention to how much stuff was in your inventory.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: MeshGearFox on April 29, 2010, 01:12:34 AM
I never used items much in Nocturne because I gave the main Mana Drain and I had daisoujou in my party all the time and enemies have limited MP in that game so if you spam mana drain a lot -- I generally alternated between having the main cast spells and do mana drain. Daisoujou had... that one attack that drained HP and MP -- they run out of MP and their AI breaks.

Also why the fuck is there not a MTGish SMT card game?

---edit---

Oh wait there is just no us release. Motherfucking pinecones >:C
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Fadedsun on April 29, 2010, 09:52:41 AM


Also why the fuck is there not a MTGish SMT card game?

---edit---

Oh wait there is just no us release. Motherfucking pinecones >:C

Is there a physical card game? I got curious and came up with this.

http://www.mobygames.com/game/shin-megami-tensei-trading-card-card-summoner-
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Farron on May 12, 2010, 09:42:43 AM
Dude, just start fucking using the items.  You get MORE than enough SP restoratives for when it matters.  I mean, P4 limited them because it was trying to encourage a balance between paying the Fox for healing and having to leave the TV to rest up a day.  But every other Megaten game supplies SP healing out the ass, there's no reason to not be spamming those items to keep yourself alive and healthy.  Persona 3 generally handed you about 4-5 power heals after every single bossfight, Nocturne handed them out like candy, Strange Journey lets you buy nearly every kind of healing item possible, and the list goes on.

And lol, short supply on full HP heals?  Healing yourself to full HP is about the easiest thing you can possibly do in a Megaten game.  Not only do your characters regularaly get access to Diarahan and Mediarahan around level 50 (Which is usually less than halfway into the game), but enemies shit out Life Stones and Beads in greater amounts then they do Macca in some instances.  Either you guys had really, really, really bad luck in getting items drops, or you just didn't pay attention to how much stuff was in your inventory.

It is easy to full heal yourself with Mediarahan, I agree. But there are some spells that are good and fun, but you can't use them much, like Tetrakarn and Makarakarn (One reflects physical attacks and the other magic attacks), there's also an item that does this too. If you use these spells on the right boss, he's toast but given the limit in MP I ended up restraining myself too much on using them afraid I would run out of MP.
There were some where I used it, before the boss used an attack on the entire party, and I was just smiling to see that huge damage number go back to him ! But this is just an example, what I'd like is to have a wider approach to the bosses.
There was one on P3 I died so much that I didn't know what to do anymore, so just before dying again I used Virus Breath (gives poison + damage) and the boss took a huge amount of damage from the poison, about 1/4 of his HP.

Maybe with more MP we could buff more, debuff more and so on.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: MeshGearFox on May 12, 2010, 10:47:44 AM
Quote
Maybe with more MP we could buff more, debuff more and so on.

You're supposed to be buffing and debuffing constantly. If you're at a point where you need to be buffing and debuffing more you're probably Doing It Wrong.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Farron on May 13, 2010, 12:22:24 AM
I did express myself bad. The Buffs and Debuffs I was referring to were the ones apart from our usual Atk up Def up Hit/Evasion up (and opposites).
For example, I would rarely use the spell Tentarafoo, even though I did know it was useful as Mutsuru (from P3) would use it a lot but due to sometimes being restricted on mana, I would simply attack an enemy instead of trying to debuff them.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Gen Eric Gui on May 13, 2010, 12:54:14 AM
Tentarafoo was a lot better when enemies could actually be weak to status ailments.  That's something I've been sorely missing since DDS.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Fadedsun on May 13, 2010, 07:46:39 AM
Tentarafoo was a lot better when enemies could actually be weak to status ailments.  That's something I've been sorely missing since DDS.

Tentarafoo is a great spell in DDS. Not so much in P3 or P4 since it didn't do damage along with affecting panic.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: MeshGearFox on May 13, 2010, 10:57:38 AM
Quote
Tentarafoo was a lot better when enemies could actually be weak to status ailments.

They sort of were in Devil Survivor. Not specifically to specific status ailments, but status attacks were lumped in with mudo or something, and finding things weak to them wasn't that hard. Also like half the spells in DS had status ailments as a side affect as well.

I'm thinking they might have been in DDS2 as well but I'm not entirely sure. I need to get back to playing that.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Gen Eric Gui on May 13, 2010, 01:24:54 PM
Yeah, they were in DDS2.  I count DDS 1 and 2 as the same game, since they pretty much are.

And you're also right about Devil Survivor, I forgot about that.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Cait Sith on May 17, 2010, 11:18:16 PM
I love Persona 1, 3, 4, and Devil Survivor, and Im working on getting my hands on Noctourne, DDS, and Strange Journey.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: kyuusei on May 17, 2010, 11:34:12 PM
Nocturne is a lot of fun. DDS 1 and 2 are my favorite MegaTens to date, however. Juts be warned they're really different from Persona :P

Waiting on Strange Journey, though snail mail appears to be slow.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Starmongoose on May 18, 2010, 07:59:05 AM
I love Persona 1, 3, 4, and Devil Survivor, and Im working on getting my hands on Noctourne, DDS, and Strange Journey.

I noticed the lack of 2, have you played it or did you not enjoy it?

Personally innocent sin & eternal punishment go after Persona 3 but before DDS 1&2
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Andrew on May 18, 2010, 08:18:04 AM
Nocturne is a lot of fun. DDS 1 and 2 are my favorite MegaTens to date, however. Juts be warned they're really different from Persona :P

What made you like DDS so much? I've been playing them recently and the huge amount of random battles are killing me. If you can give me any motivation to push forward then I'd love to hear it!
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: MeshGearFox on May 18, 2010, 10:48:41 AM
I thought I already posted a reply... Anyway.

Quote
Yeah, they were in DDS2.

Sorry, I meant Devil Summoner 2. Typo on my part. I also seem to recall Strange Journey having a minute amount of enemies that are weak to status attacks but I'm probably just trippin' balls, thar.

In terms of DDS, those games had an absolutely wonderful story, great characters, and the same battle system as Nocturne, with some changes. I didn't care for the whole "eat demons to level up faster" thing.

Downside is that I thought DDS1 had much better dungeon designs, whereas 2 had improved battle and character growth mechanics.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: D-Rider on May 18, 2010, 11:00:28 AM
Nocturne is a lot of fun. DDS 1 and 2 are my favorite MegaTens to date, however. Juts be warned they're really different from Persona :P

What made you like DDS so much? I've been playing them recently and the huge amount of random battles are killing me. If you can give me any motivation to push forward then I'd love to hear it!

How about some anti-motivation instead?  If you're already feeling like it's a grueling dungeon slog then you might as well stop now, because this "problem" won't go away.  Ever.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: WildArms on May 18, 2010, 11:04:44 AM
Nocturne is a lot of fun. DDS 1 and 2 are my favorite MegaTens to date, however. Juts be warned they're really different from Persona :P

What made you like DDS so much? I've been playing them recently and the huge amount of random battles are killing me. If you can give me any motivation to push forward then I'd love to hear it!

Well, i liked DDS because of the battles, they were different than in any other game, and i liked how the interface was made, yeah there were lots of random battles (like in most of the old school rpgs) but since i liked the battles xD that wasnt too much of an issue.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: kyuusei on May 18, 2010, 01:02:54 PM
Nocturne is a lot of fun. DDS 1 and 2 are my favorite MegaTens to date, however. Juts be warned they're really different from Persona :P

What made you like DDS so much? I've been playing them recently and the huge amount of random battles are killing me. If you can give me any motivation to push forward then I'd love to hear it!

Not to quote everybody else, but like Mesh, I really enjoyed the story and characters the most. I loved the (and Nocturne's) battle system, so the frequency of the battles wasn't *too* much of an issue. If you don't, then you won't enjoy the rest of the games. :P

I also loved the skill scheme, which is done even better in 2, where it's got more of a 'sphere grid' feel (FFX).

I also agree with Mesh about the dungeons, too. I thought they were better layout and design wise, and more fun in DDS1. PLus I prefer puzzle type dungeons anyway, call me masochistic if you want.

My favorite dungeons though, will always be Nocturne.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Kevadu on May 18, 2010, 04:21:48 PM
Interesting.  I actually did rather enjoy the combat and dungeons in DDS, but the story and characters did nothing for me.  I never developed any kind of attachment to any of the characters, to the point where I honestly didn't care what happened to them.

Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Gen Eric Gui on May 18, 2010, 05:16:57 PM
I'm with Kevadu.  The only characters in DDS I got attached to were Heat and Serph.  Heat because he was frickin' awesome, and Serph because, well, he's the MC, and I almost always like the MC.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Starmongoose on May 18, 2010, 08:02:50 PM
I didn't much care for Heat myself, that type of character always grates against me.

I did bond with Argilla a lot though.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Gen Eric Gui on May 18, 2010, 08:41:41 PM
I got especially fond of Heat in DDS2, and anyone who didn't is a heartless creep.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: kyuusei on May 18, 2010, 09:42:30 PM
Gale got interesting for like five minutes total, Cielo was useless in DDS1 but got more useful in 2. He had a cool scene near the end too. Sera was meh, but I liked the rest of the cast.

I got especially fond of Heat in DDS2, and anyone who didn't is a heartless creep.
Agreed. All the parts of DDS2 with Heat were my favorite even when I hated him. =P

The backstory was pretty interesting as well, I thought.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Cait Sith on May 18, 2010, 10:46:09 PM
I love Persona 1, 3, 4, and Devil Survivor, and Im working on getting my hands on Noctourne, DDS, and Strange Journey.

I noticed the lack of 2, have you played it or did you not enjoy it?

Personally innocent sin & eternal punishment go after Persona 3 but before DDS 1&2

I havn't played it. Eventually I hope to for sure. And Im aware how DDS and Noctourne are very different from Persona, and everything I see just makes me more excited.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: MeshGearFox on May 19, 2010, 12:09:10 AM
True story: I liked Persona 1 more than Persona 2 for some reason.

Also I'm having a hard time continuing with SJ. That hidden door in Sector C really WAS off-putting to me because it was just flat-out bad area design and it sounds like that kind of stuff continues. Also the game's sort of oppressive feeling.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: rezo111 on May 19, 2010, 04:12:42 PM
I used to have Persona: Revelations. I liked it but when I found out how bastardized it was, I was so angry!

I still think it's weird they released Persona 2: Eternal Punishment in the US without ever having released Persona 2: Innocent Sin. That's like watching Ghostbusters 2 without having watched Ghostbusters 1!
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: MeshGearFox on May 19, 2010, 07:11:33 PM
Eternal Punishment's a better game than IS. They essentially play identically, but EP just smooths over all of the rough spots and is just... better balanced and more enjoyable for a variety of reasons.

Additionally IS is japanese to the point where, even with a translation, I didn't understand half the shit that was going on and didn't really care, either.

I don't think Americanizing Persona 1 affected the quality any, since the only gameplay alterations were reducing random encounter rate and increasing experience received which, in my eyes, are good things. Oh, and they removed the snow queen quest, but that doesn't sound even remotely fun so who cares.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Starmongoose on May 19, 2010, 07:39:32 PM
Quote
Eternal Punishment's a better game than IS. They essentially play identically, but EP just smooths over all of the rough spots and is just... better balanced and more enjoyable for a variety of reasons.

That's a very bold statement to make. It is true that some of the gameplay had been tweaked to run more smoothly but that isn't all a game is, well not an RPG anyway.

I played Innocent Sin first (I suspect you played Eternal Punishment first) so I think that may have some effect on the way I perceived it. I felt the story in IS was much stronger than in EP. Both had fantastic stories - but IS will always have a special place. I also felt the characters of Lisa Silverman, Eikichi and Jun made a bigger impression than Baofu, Ellen, Nate and Ulala ( I left out characters who were playable in both). They went through some very rough shit together.

Not that I'm hating on EP - I just don't feel like calling EP "better" than IS is true. Better for you, maybe. It depends on what you value most in these types of games. Certainly not "better" for me.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: MeshGearFox on May 19, 2010, 08:46:50 PM
A. Everything in a game external to the gameplay, whatever the gameplay may be, is ultimately fluff. Strong aesthetics and stories can greatly improve a good design. They can never make up for a bad design, though, and if the underlying design relies entirely on things external to the gameplay, it's fundamentally flawed.

B. I didn't really like IS' story because I couldn't really relate to anything in it or any of its ideas. It seemed like a lot of teenage, highschool drama. A lot of it felt like it was dealing with the characters' father issues. I find that kind of thing incredibly... lame.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Starmongoose on May 19, 2010, 09:40:56 PM
I agree that the core of a game is the gameplay itself, but Persona 2 isn't Super Mario Bros. A lot more has to be considered. I would use a horrible metaphor or something, but I'm sure you understand what I'm getting at.

As for your second comment -
Code: [Select]
Probably the most important aspect of the story in Innocent Sin was about 5 children who are outcasts in one way or another and seek comfort in their little group known as the Masquerade, and mostly depend on the Big Sister character in Maya. When they find out Maya is moving away and won't be able to see them anymore, Lisa and Eikichi  lock Maya in the local shrine, hoping she won't leave them. That night an arsonist torches the Shrine and Lisa and Eikichi are so distraught by the event of Mayas supposed death that they have blanked it out of their memories completely, Jun is especially traumatized and when he grows up he is the only one who remember the events of that night, creating a twisted version of the Masquerade and seeking revenge for his Mother figure. A little to do with parental indifference but it is mostly about a group of kids involved in extremely unfortunate circumstances that are the product of two deity's trying to prove a point.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: MeshGearFox on May 19, 2010, 10:10:13 PM
I think I was aware of that spoiler before you posted it. In any case, as I said, that kind of story just doesn't mean a whole lot to me.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Yggdrasil on May 20, 2010, 02:06:00 AM
All this talk about Persona 2 remind me that Atlus needs to hurry up with those remakes for the PSP! :'<
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Gen Eric Gui on May 20, 2010, 02:30:07 AM
I'd rather get new games, to be honest.  Even in the update, P1 is almost unplayable and P2 hasn't aged well either, judging from my recent attempts to play EP.

Another game like Nocturne would be really nice.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Yggdrasil on May 20, 2010, 02:46:13 AM
Another game like Nocturne would be really nice.

It's impossible to create another game like Nocturne... badass RPG to date.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Farron on May 20, 2010, 09:47:10 AM
I haven't finished Nocturne, but I know what I clearly liked about the game: the dark mood it brings; that solitude feel that most of the time it's just you and the demons.
However there are times with little interaction and too much random encounters ... I do enjoy more talking in my RPGs.

It's weird because when the game is clear the story is not the focus, I can deal with it, like Demon's Souls, Monster Hunter, Diablo, etc but if there is a plot, especially an interesting one, I want to know it asap.

This is probably my downside with Strage Journey now, I'm in Sector D and at times the dungeons feels waaaay to long. It's just like MeshGearFox said:
Quote
Also I'm having a hard time continuing with SJ. That hidden door in Sector C really WAS off-putting to me because it was just flat-out bad area design and it sounds like that kind of stuff continues.

I had to look up a map in gamefaqs and still it was hard to find. I would expect things like this in 8bit/16bit RPGs, but these days you rarely see it, probably because that is boring as hell.
Maybe Dragon Quest fans like this, because this is one of my main gripes about the games.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: MeshGearFox on May 20, 2010, 10:43:38 AM
Quote
I had to look up a map in gamefaqs and still it was hard to find. I would expect things like this in 8bit/16bit RPGs, but these days you rarely see it, probably because that is boring as hell.
Maybe Dragon Quest fans like this, because this is one of my main gripes about the games.

The thing with the hidden doors is that it's just... very un-Atlus. Maybe the Etrian games did it, but I don't think any of the SMT games have. I'm pretty sure Persona and SMT1 didn't.

The second odd thing about it is that just clashes with the games overall design. Your suit has a hidden door sense. I can get not revealing a hidden door until I'm in the same space as it, but actually requiring me to rotate and face the wall? That's sort of needle-in-a-haystack.

Same with the dark areas. As soon as I saw it my first thought was that I'd either need to do a puzzle to light it up or get some sort of suit upgrade to get through it. Not the case.

Anyway, I'm not sure I get your Dragon Quest comparison. Phantasy Star 1's the only 8-bit game I can recall with a similarly hidden door, in Lassic's Palace.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Gen Eric Gui on May 20, 2010, 11:30:05 AM
Just crabwalk down hallways.  You'll never miss a hidden door, ever.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Fadedsun on May 20, 2010, 11:45:31 AM
The second odd thing about it is that just clashes with the games overall design. Your suit has a hidden door sense. I can get not revealing a hidden door until I'm in the same space as it, but actually requiring me to rotate and face the wall? That's sort of needle-in-a-haystack.

I wouldn't really call it in a needle-in-a-haystack. You can usually tell where a hidden door would be. Some areas look suspicious, and you can cancel out a lot of the area you've already explored that obviously wouldn't have any extra space to explore.

Etrian Odyssey had hidden areas. A little check message would pop up if there was a hidden spot, but you would have to be facing the direction of where it was. Makes sense to me. How would you know there was something hidden there if you weren't looking at it, or inspecting it?
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: CosmicSisyphus on May 20, 2010, 06:30:58 PM
I concede my original criticism of Persona 3 and 4's art style. After reading Tezuka's Dororo I have come to realize pop-art succeed in effectively conveying powerful symbolic imagery. The narrative in video games are very difficult to dissect, considering their multi-faceted nature (e.g., player agency, dialogue, and so forth), so I was a bit ignorant to criticize Persona 3's seriousness of plot on the basis of art-style. However, I still hold my opinion that a game doesn't necessary need character development or a complex narrative in order to be considered deep; my post on Strange Journey's minimalist style and thematic depth elaborated on this position.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Lard on May 20, 2010, 06:40:54 PM
All this talk about Persona 2 remind me that Atlus needs to hurry up with those remakes for the PSP! :'<

We're never going to get Persona 2 remakes for PSP.

If they only do Eternal Punishment, people will be mad. And they're *never* going to release IS in the West.

So they're just not going to bother.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: WildArms on May 20, 2010, 06:48:59 PM
stop ports and go for persona 5 for ps3 *drolls*





(maybe xbox 360)
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Fadedsun on May 20, 2010, 08:54:15 PM
All this talk about Persona 2 remind me that Atlus needs to hurry up with those remakes for the PSP! :'<

We're never going to get Persona 2 remakes for PSP.

If they only do Eternal Punishment, people will be mad. And they're *never* going to release IS in the West.

So they're just not going to bother.

You say it like you're 100% confident that it's true. You never know. I don't expect to ever get IS, but it's possible that we could get EP for PSP. I'd love it if they ported it over to the PSP.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: kyuusei on May 20, 2010, 09:04:13 PM
I wouldn't complain if they redid EP. I lost my copy ages ago, and still want to play it. That said I'd play IS too, even if it's 'not as good', just because the two are connected and all that jazz.

I have the feeling they'll focus on Persona 5, though.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Lard on May 20, 2010, 09:32:28 PM
You say it like you're 100% confident that it's true.

I am. It's never going to happen. It's just too much trouble for them, and they can't advertise cut content included like they did with The Snow Queen quest.

It's never going to happen.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Kevadu on May 20, 2010, 11:25:54 PM
stop ports and go for persona 5 for ps3 *drolls*





(maybe xbox 360)

Yes!  I can't be the only one who feels that the whole Persona 3 PSP thing was completely unnecessary (and yes, I have a PSP...no, I'm not going to get it).  I would much rather Atlus focused on making a new Persona game.

Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Eusis on May 20, 2010, 11:27:02 PM
stop ports and go for persona 5 for ps3 *drolls*

They will release it on the Wii and you will cry.





... Actually, it'd probably go on the PSP.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Yggdrasil on May 20, 2010, 11:55:50 PM
People crushing my hopes for games that I want to play, charming.

But seriously, if Atlus ever make the announcement of those remakes it would be cool. And I'm sure that Atlus USA would make some efforts to bring the two games outside of Japan. I mean, there's games with more heavy content and what not than the two P2 games together.

The fans are ready for it, that's a fact. The other side of the story is that, Japanese gamers didn't like the remake of the 1st Persona game for the PSP... not to mention that make two remakes cost money, money that Atlus want to put on projects like the next Persona game (ugh).

Anyway, if Atlus really want my money, they must do a game like Digital Devil Saga. The battle system alone is brilliant and they can make use of it for a long time. Is easily one of the best and most enjoyable battle systems ever. Not to mention that I like to feel the "punishment" that games like Nocturne or DDS can do to the player if you lose one battle.

Good times... Oh yeah! We also need more music like this one (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tdRICXUoy48&fmt=18) in RPGs.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: WildArms on May 20, 2010, 11:59:16 PM
Lol i just can't imagine a persona game in the wii.... that would suck sooooOOooooOo much, and i can't imagine how many haters would be born from that action.... Umm i wouldn't mind persona 5 to be on PSP, i mean, this is a great portable device (just look some videos of kingdom hearts birth by sleep, god eater, etc, they just look and are freaking awesome), still... it would sadden me, i'm just expecting a lot from persona 5.


Yes!  I can't be the only one who feels that the whole Persona 3 PSP thing was completely unnecessary (and yes, I have a PSP...no, I'm not going to get it).  I would much rather Atlus focused on making a new Persona game.



Oh btw, im not agains p3p because there is a great deal of new stuff :P, adding a female character is like a new persona 3 stylish game, so i'm happy with this "port", but i dont think they would do something like that in the other persona games ports, sorry to disappoint you xD.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Lard on May 21, 2010, 01:37:33 AM
The other side of the story is that, Japanese gamers didn't like the remake of the 1st Persona game for the PSP

Really? Why not?

I'd rather have SMT IV than Persona 5. I'm just finishing through a playthrough of Persona 4 for the good ending for the first time.

Persona 4 is hands down my favourite of the four games.

It would be nice to have something a little different. (Strange Journey helped)
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Yggdrasil on May 21, 2010, 02:20:14 AM
^Long story short: It was because the game didn't feel like the original in the PSone. Also, the music alone make a lot of people don't buy the game... and I can understand that, the music in the original make you feel like in some kind of "trance" while playing it.

The new arrangements are not bad, but most of the music is annoying after a while. I can't blame if someone doesn't like the soundtrack, Shoji was trying too hard... at least he did a badass remix (http://www.atlusnet.jp/topic/detail/785) in the production of the game of Reach Out to the Truth, this track is mostly a mix between two tracks of Persona PSP and Persona 4.

That track was published in the Japanese blogs of Atlus as you can see and I've never seen the track in any of the soundtracks of the series.

Oh well. With something bad, comes good stuff. :)
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Chronix112 on May 21, 2010, 09:34:33 AM
^Long story short: It was because the game didn't feel like the original in the PSone. Also, the music alone make a lot of people don't buy the game... and I can understand that, the music in the original make you feel like in some kind of "trance" while playing it.

The new arrangements are not bad, but most of the music is annoying after a while. I can't blame if someone doesn't like the soundtrack, Shoji was trying too hard... at least he did a badass remix (http://www.atlusnet.jp/topic/detail/785) in the production of the game of Reach Out to the Truth, this track is mostly a mix between two tracks of Persona PSP and Persona 4.

That track was published in the Japanese blogs of Atlus as you can see and I've never seen the track in any of the soundtracks of the series.

Oh well. With something bad, comes good stuff. :)

Shoji trying to hard?  Personally, I thought he half assed most of the arrangements the soundtrack.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Gen Eric Gui on May 21, 2010, 10:05:02 AM
Quote
Lol i just can't imagine a persona game in the wii.... that would suck sooooOOooooOo much

Not really understanding this line of thought?  I'm pretty sure the system the game plays on has no impact on the actual quality of the game.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: WildArms on May 21, 2010, 12:13:50 PM
Quote
Lol i just can't imagine a persona game in the wii.... that would suck sooooOOooooOo much

Not really understanding this line of thought?  I'm pretty sure the system the game plays on has no impact on the actual quality of the game.

We are talking about wii, you know, least powerfull console in this gen... mostly a console made "just to have fun a little while", the only games i''ve been really into(after playing like 40 tittles at the most) ,with the wii, is Zelda, tales of symphony 2 (lol lagz in battles) and Rune Factory frontier, the other games are just "come play, fun, sensor detection controls, bye." with a generic story. I just can't (and dont want) to see a shin megami tensei on wii
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Gen Eric Gui on May 21, 2010, 12:35:32 PM
PSP is less powerful then Wii and you said you were fine with it.  Hence my confusion.

Also, since when does system power factor into anything ever?  Super Mario Galaxy looked and played amazing, and it was on the Wii.  Silent Hill: Shattered Memories had the best flashlight mechanic I've ever seen in a game, and it's on the "inferior" Wii.

And as for that final bit, that's just ignorance, really.  Just because the Wii happens to be the system with all the shovelware this gen (PS2 had it all last gen, and you didn't see THAT system getting any heat for it) doesn't mean Atlus is magically going to not try as hard if they were to make a game for it.  The Wii has as many or more awesome games then either of the other two HD systems, it's not the system's problem if you want to ignore that or if they don't exactly fit your tastes.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Farron on May 21, 2010, 01:11:46 PM
I think Atlus wouldn't release it on the Wii considering that with a few exceptions, "hardcore" games don't do well on the Wii. I have a Wii, but unfortunately it's the truth. MadWorld, Conduit, Dead Space Extraction, ... the only one that did well that comes to my mind is Resident Evil 4.

Considering this, Atlus knows their game won't release as well as a big budget RPG like Final Fantasy they try to go where people are considering buying it. For example, Valkyria Chronicles wasn't doing well at the beginning of its release, but it created some great legs and now is almost at a million. And the only games on the Wii with good legs I've seen so far have a nintendo brand on it

My hopes is that persona 5 comes to the ps3, for many reasons: my favorite is due to the large amount of data the Bluray disc can handle, Atlus USA can keep the japanese voices and the english ones (for those who like it). No more excuses of running out of space.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Eusis on May 21, 2010, 01:45:04 PM
We are talking about wii, you know, least powerfull console in this gen...

As if MegaTen was ever about pushing technological limits.

I think Atlus wouldn't release it on the Wii considering that with a few exceptions, "hardcore" games don't do well on the Wii. I have a Wii, but unfortunately it's the truth. MadWorld, Conduit, Dead Space Extraction, ... the only one that did well that comes to my mind is Resident Evil 4.

These are all fundamentally different from what MegaTen goes for, and arguably each of them has a significant failing that kept them from catching on anyway.

- MadWorld is a strange, extremely stylistic game.
- Dead Space Extraction as an on rails shooter, a genre that isn't exactly beloved anymore, certainly not enough for most people to pay $50 for.
- No one liked Conduit.

With that said, I don't believe games closer to MegaTen's demographic like Little King's Story did particularly well either. However, MegaTen has traditionally been a console agnostic series. There have been platforms it generally gravitates to, yes, but no one should be livid if they throw a game to one platform then another to a different one. Unless it screws us out of localization, as Nine being on the Xbox may've caused.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Yggdrasil on May 21, 2010, 03:08:10 PM
The Wii is going to have Sin and Punishment 2, the console is already awesome in my eyes. :)

Shoji trying to hard?  Personally, I thought he half assed most of the arrangements the soundtrack.

Opinions are opinions, personally I think that the music of Persona PSP belongs more in a arrange album rather to put it in the game. I'm sure that in the development of the game they want to put the original soundtrack of the PSone version of the game at some point. But the new arrangements were too much content for the UMD they said... well shit, the ports of the Ys games on the PSP (Chronicles and Felghana, if I remember correctly) has a selection of soundtracks for you to choose.

Awesome music needs more respect Atlus.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Gen Eric Gui on May 21, 2010, 05:02:04 PM
Eusis already touched on this point, but almost all the "Mature" games that didin't do well ont he Wii wouldn't have done any better on the 360 or PS3.

Meanwhile, the Wii has several "Hardcore" games that have hit over a million, including RE4, at least two of the Medal of Honor games, and a few others I can't think of off the top of my head.

But that said, you also have to understand that Wii games COST a lot less to produce in general, so they don't need to push a million to make a profit.  While a PS3 game might cost several million to make and require 1.5 million sales just to break even, several Wii games start making a profit around the 200k mark.  Like, for instance, Umbrella Chronicles, which didn't hit a million but still made a tidy enough profit for Capcom to want to make Darkside Chronicles, which itself made a handsome profit despite never hitting a million.

The Wii is a completely different business from the 360 and the PS3, and thinking in the same terms as on thsoe systems makes for a lot of faulty assumptions.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: WildArms on May 21, 2010, 09:48:11 PM
PSP is less powerful then Wii and you said you were fine with it.  Hence my confusion.

Also, since when does system power factor into anything ever?  Super Mario Galaxy looked and played amazing, and it was on the Wii.  Silent Hill: Shattered Memories had the best flashlight mechanic I've ever seen in a game, and it's on the "inferior" Wii.

And as for that final bit, that's just ignorance, really.  Just because the Wii happens to be the system with all the shovelware this gen (PS2 had it all last gen, and you didn't see THAT system getting any heat for it) doesn't mean Atlus is magically going to not try as hard if they were to make a game for it.  The Wii has as many or more awesome games then either of the other two HD systems, it's not the system's problem if you want to ignore that or if they don't exactly fit your tastes.

I have a wii, so i know,  i couldnt play any game without getting lagged or having 2 or 3 suddenly stops because "the data was corrupted" or "cant read disc" on a new game, i dont know about mario galaxy but, is "mario" nintendo is made for mario xD, well this is baseless, but is truth that i always get lag playing on the wii, even playing harvest moon. All the wii games ive played, looks  like the ps2 games in my opinion.
PSP may not be as strong as the wii, but i think is close, besides, psp is portable :D
Of course im not saying i dislike the wii, there are great games, but these series are not for the wii....
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Farron on May 22, 2010, 12:15:50 PM
The PSP is doing really good in Japan. Numerous times it's outselling even the Wii, PS3 and DS, so it's probably a good choice, for there at least. Here in the west ... I'm not so sure.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: CDFN on May 22, 2010, 12:36:13 PM
The thought of getting a wii never even crossed my mind but I'd get one for P5. I hope it's on the PS3 though because that would make my life a lot easier.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Eusis on May 22, 2010, 01:15:51 PM
The PSP is doing really good in Japan. Numerous times it's outselling even the Wii, PS3 and DS, so it's probably a good choice, for there at least. Here in the west ... I'm not so sure.

It's worth remembering just WHO has these systems. It's not unlikely that most of the people inclined to play a Persona have a PSP anyway.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: kyuusei on May 22, 2010, 02:30:45 PM
My wii is gathering dust and next to it sits my pS2, which is getting infinite more use (still). The idea of a MegaTen on the Wii is intriguing, but I still can't picture it.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Farron on May 22, 2010, 07:49:49 PM
My wii is gathering dust and next to it sits my pS2, which is getting infinite more use (still). The idea of a MegaTen on the Wii is intriguing, but I still can't picture it.

I can't see it either. From time to time I play my Wii but I gotta be honest, most games that come for it I wouldn't want them even if they were free.
The 360 is not good in Japan, so it wouldn't work, and besides, that announcement of P5 was in a Playstation magazine, so it's likely for it to come on either PSP or PS3.
I personally would like much more to see it on PS3, as I'm anxious to see what Atlus can do with a stronger hardware, especially as this may be the ground for many SMT games to come.

Imagine how much the dungeons from Persona 4 could look like if made for PS3. In PS2 they were already full of details and care, especially the last ones.

The thing I'm really curious to see is how the characters models will look. I'd much rather they look like DBZ, Tales of Vesperia, more anime like, than those "almost" human but animeish.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: kyuusei on May 22, 2010, 09:32:27 PM
besides, that announcement of P5 was in a Playstation magazine, so it's likely for it to come on either PSP or PS3.
Ah yes. I remember this when we reported the P5/'new Persona' thing.

Quote
I personally would like much more to see it on PS3, as I'm anxious to see what Atlus can do with a stronger hardware, especially as this may be the ground for many SMT games to come.

Imagine how much the dungeons from Persona 4 could look like if made for PS3. In PS2 they were already full of details and care, especially the last ones.
I'd love to see what Atlus can do with what the PS3 offers. Nothing against the PSP, but they've done the Persona and P3 remakes on it already. I'd like to see them really try something new, and a new platform would sure help with that :P

For me, it's about picturing something like Nocturne - and imagining music and dungeon designs similar to that, but updated to make good use of the PS3's hardware.

Quote
The thing I'm really curious to see is how the characters models will look. I'd much rather they look like DBZ, Tales of Vesperia, more anime like, than those "almost" human but animeish.
I'm not sure how I'd feel about SMT characters having a more 'anime' look. To me they'd lose the SMT feel a little depending on the design, they've always had a realistic element. ...Except maybe Devil Survivor, but that wasn't so bad. Just felt 'kid'-ish.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Yggdrasil on May 23, 2010, 03:58:52 PM
The thing I'm really curious to see is how the characters models will look. I'd much rather they look like DBZ, Tales of Vesperia, more anime like, than those "almost" human but animeish.

Nocturne and Digital Devil Saga has greats characters models in the game, even today a game as old as Nocturne looks good. Hell, even the battle animations are awesome for a game with Turn-Battle System.

More so than any Persona game to date in my opinion.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: CDFN on May 23, 2010, 05:14:27 PM
In the case of P5 the graphics will probably have the same style as P3&4 but with more detail. I'm really not expecting a huge jump in quality. Cutscenes should continue to be anime. If they go with cutscenes using in-game graphics they will need more detailed character models though. They should really just use the same style, maybe throw in some really cool effects during battles. Would be enough for me.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Starmongoose on May 23, 2010, 05:26:23 PM
In the case of P5 the graphics will probably have the same style as P3&4 but with more detail. I'm really not expecting a huge jump in quality. Cutscenes should continue to be anime. If they go with cutscenes using in-game graphics they will need more detailed character models though. They should really just use the same style, maybe throw in some really cool effects during battles. Would be enough for me.

I agree, I am very much satisfied with the way the game looked in P3 and P4. I would be happy just seeing some better animation in battles, maybe even a bit more variety with the way the on-screen random encounters are presented -Maybe a different sprite depending on the dungeons theme. Persona summoning sequences with a bit more detail would be lovely too.

Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Farron on May 23, 2010, 09:24:32 PM
I gotta agree with you guys, Nocturne still looks amazing, and their new game sure could use it as inspiration.
But even with its "more realistic look", than Persona at least, it has a style (which I'm not complaining, just pointing), and my main point is I do hope they don't try to too much to make them look "real" but end up making them look generic.

For example, Nier while it doesn't look as bad as people say, has some generic looking characters. Much worse could be White Knight Chronicles.

I think I'd rather want some characters looking like Atelier no Totori (from what has been shown so far), which isn't great, but has its own style, than have some cheap generic version of characters that have higher resolution.

Now if they could have characters look as real as FFXIII but a little less "happy", that would be awesome.
But don't take this the wrong way, by FFXIII, which I love those characters in this game, in the next megaten I mean the quality of the characters expressions, they almost feel alive,(like also in mass effect 2).
Quick version: I don't mean the "character design", but the possibilities of the characters expressions.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: MeshGearFox on May 23, 2010, 11:23:57 PM
Nocturne was minimalist and looked great for it, and will probably never actually looked dated because it when with stylized over realism.

Anyway, just played Devil Summoner 2 a bit.

I... like Strange Journey, and in a very real sense it's possibly the deepest of the main-branch megaten games. At the same time... something about it's offputting. It's demanding, for one thing. Given that you can't see NPC till you're in their square, you have this insensitive to painstakingly map out every inch of the dungeon, which gets a bit tiring. And the aforementioned issues with hidden doors.

But it's more than that. The setting is just... oppressive. I don't think having a proper overworld like the other SMT games would've helped that much, though it might've helped a little. It certainly gave a certain breeziness to Nocturne.

So, though, as I said. I was playing DS2 a bit. DS2 is obviously lighter and airier in terms of style. Forests look lush. Cities are brightly lit and have style to them. It's friendly and inviting in its own weird way. Even the eldrith horror living beneath the village is... strangely cute. It's pretty clear to me why DS2 doesn't feel as oppressive.

The weird thing is that SJ feels darker than Nocturne, sometimes. I think part of it is that... Nocturne looks abstract, whereas SJ doesn't. Nocturne does have cities, even if you can still get attacked in them. SJ... doesn't, really. Also, Nocturne doesn't look like all the weird shit I see in my dreams.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: CDFN on May 26, 2010, 07:01:09 PM
Someone dubbed that fantastic persona 4 parody comic and it's fucking hilarious:

http://www.youtube.com/user/StrawberryCreme26#p/a/u/0/7mUTQKMRLYQ (http://www.youtube.com/user/StrawberryCreme26#p/a/u/0/7mUTQKMRLYQ)
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Starmongoose on May 26, 2010, 07:46:51 PM
That was awesome, thanks, CDFN. I can't wait for her to upload more.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Gen Eric Gui on May 26, 2010, 08:36:29 PM
The original comic is what's funny, I don't really think the voices really added much to it.  But then again, I think everything is better without voices so whatever.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Lard on May 26, 2010, 08:49:13 PM
In the case of P5 the graphics will probably have the same style as P3&4 but with more detail. 

Apparently not.

http://ca.kotaku.com/5547944/persona...rom-ps3-to-psp
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Starmongoose on May 26, 2010, 08:54:00 PM
In the case of P5 the graphics will probably have the same style as P3&4 but with more detail. 

Apparently not.

http://ca.kotaku.com/5547944/persona...rom-ps3-to-psp

If it is P5 on PSP - what a let down. Not saying anything bad about the PSP, I just had my hopes up for a PS3 title (god forbid something I end up actually enjoying comes out for that system).
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Yggdrasil on May 26, 2010, 10:05:08 PM
Persona 3 for PS3, believe!
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Eusis on May 26, 2010, 10:27:06 PM
There's a much simpler (http://www.siliconera.com/2010/05/24/shin-megami-tensei-persona-for-ps3-rated-in-australia-what/) explanation for the rating.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: CDFN on May 27, 2010, 06:05:24 AM
I hope E3 clears this up once and for all. I really hope it's on the PS3.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Eusis on May 27, 2010, 11:25:12 PM
I hope E3 clears this up once and for all. I really hope it's on the PS3.

... Except I just pointed out an article that rationalizes this was probably last year's PSP port rated for Australia. There is only the slimmest of chances it's anything else.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: CDFN on May 28, 2010, 04:31:30 AM
I hope E3 clears this up once and for all. I really hope it's on the PS3.

... Except I just pointed out an article that rationalizes this was probably last year's PSP port rated for Australia. There is only the slimmest of chances it's anything else.

I know but we still aren't 100% sure if the game will be on the PS3 or did I miss something?
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Eusis on May 28, 2010, 04:39:15 AM
I know but we still aren't 100% sure if the game will be on the PS3 or did I miss something?

Check either article, they pointed out they changed the system to PSP afterwards. Kotaku jumped the gun by acting like idiots and leaping to conclusions.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Kevadu on May 28, 2010, 04:24:29 PM
Check either article, they pointed out they changed the system to PSP afterwards. Kotaku jumped the gun by acting like idiots and leaping to conclusions.

Yes, but we still have no idea what system a hypothetical P5 will be on.  Kotaku should just be ignored, as they have done nothing but confuse the issue.

Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Eusis on May 28, 2010, 04:56:49 PM
That's true, it's less that there's nothing going on and more that we have misinterpreted information that's better ignored.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: terrencelee on June 03, 2010, 04:55:44 PM
a few months back (or maybe less) i read several articles saying  P5 was announced and it was said to be on the PS3 by one of the heads at Atlus
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Cait Sith on June 03, 2010, 10:20:05 PM
I wish! But I havn't heard that before, and I dont think it happend sadly.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Farron on June 03, 2010, 11:38:03 PM
Let's hope that in E3 Atlus gives us the confirmation we all want to hear!
I hope it's for PS3 not because of Persona 5 itself, but like the last SMT games on PS2, after the first came a whole bunch of them. So if they make the overall structure of their games they can release many more SMT on the years to come :)

While typing I was thinking back of Strange Journey. Now I recall I kind of gave it a rest and went back to play Professor Layton and the Diabolical Box (so much fun).
Those pain killing random encounters in SJ are killing me and the dungeons only get bigger, more boring and more time consuming. I wish at least there were more plot in between, or maybe smaller dungeons but a bigger number of them (it would make it even but less stressful).
That's probably one of the reasons I gave a rest to Persona 1(PSP).

I'm not to complain much about encounters but they just over do it.

I swear, if I had Nocturne on PSP I would finally beat it. So much better than those two. Anytime I think of it a smile comes to my face.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Gen Eric Gui on June 03, 2010, 11:59:15 PM
There's a pretty easy to get App for the suit that reduces the number of random encounters by a lot.  Of course, you'll be underlevelled if you use it too much, but it's especially handy for going through old dungeons to find fiends or to find stuff for quests.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Farron on June 04, 2010, 06:59:34 AM
I got this App and even though it did help, a lot, there's still a lot of frustration. Also it could have more save points scattered around dungeons. They are already big and we're playing on a portable system.
If I'm not mistaken Persona 2 didn't have these problems, I mean, to this extend but I only playing a little of it, so I can't say for sure.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Cait Sith on June 04, 2010, 10:38:12 AM
Ive been meaning to get my hands on Strange Journey for awhile now, But I cant seem to find it anywhere. But then again, I havnt looked all that hard.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: CDFN on June 04, 2010, 12:04:15 PM
Those pain killing random encounters in SJ are killing me and the dungeons only get bigger, more boring and more time consuming. I wish at least there were more plot in between, or maybe smaller dungeons but a bigger number of them (it would make it even but less stressful).
That's probably one of the reasons I gave a rest to Persona 1(PSP).

I'm not to complain much about encounters but they just over do it.


That's why this is the first SMT game I didn't play since I'm a fan of the franchise. Unfortunately I just don't have the patience for this kind of thing anymore.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: MeshGearFox on June 04, 2010, 05:28:59 PM
SJ's random encounters are really fast and they're less frequent than in Nocturne and DDS.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: supersonic on June 06, 2010, 05:24:01 PM
SJ's random encounters are really fast and they're less frequent than in Nocturne and DDS.

Exactly, especially when you use auto-battle. Not to mention the fact that you can easily decrease the encounter rate by installing a certain app in your demonica.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Starmongoose on June 06, 2010, 05:27:31 PM
I enjoyed SJ, it was very well made. However it did drain me pretty completely by completion. It was an exhausting game, though I can't put my finger on why.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: MeshGearFox on June 06, 2010, 08:14:13 PM
Well, as I said elsewhere, it DOES have a really oppressive atmosphere. It's hell on earth and they do a little too good of a job with that.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Farron on June 06, 2010, 10:03:24 PM
Nocturne also had lots of random battles but I think I didn't get tired of them because of the dark mood the game creates, so even if it has less plot time, it helps.
Strange Journey has some issues that I hate the most in Dragon Quest games.

I have to agree with you CDFN , I don't know how much patience I have left for this.
I was never to use cheats in RPG, but some games seems like they ask for it. Not because they are unbeatable of something, far from it, but to be enjoyable.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: MeshGearFox on June 07, 2010, 09:39:10 PM
Quote
Strange Journey has some issues that I hate the most in Dragon Quest games.

I'm sure there's logic behind this statement but I'm not seeing it.

There ARE things I find tiring about Strange Journey -- like P3, some of the sidequests have really bizarre, bizarre... bizarreness, and the hidden door thing is irritating as hell -- but the random encounters aren't one of those things. They're just too fast paced for them to bother me.

And as previously mentioned, using auto battle against old enemies cause battles to end in a matter of seconds.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Yggdrasil on June 10, 2010, 03:40:07 PM
Persona 3 & 4 Keychains has been announced! (http://tomopop.com/persona-3-4-keychains-omg-12833.phtml)

Is kinda wierd that there's no keychain of Thanatos... or Junpei.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: insertnamehere on June 14, 2010, 09:29:30 AM
I probably should have asked this a while ago but oh well
I've been playing persona 4 a lot recently, and having trouble leveling up margaret's social link
she wants me to make Ippon-Datara with sukukaja and I already did that
each time I try it, she doesn't seem to notice that it's already done
am I missing something that would help me level it up?
it's really frustrating for me
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Farron on June 14, 2010, 10:55:55 AM
I probably should have asked this a while ago but oh well
I've been playing persona 4 a lot recently, and having trouble leveling up margaret's social link
she wants me to make Ippon-Datara with sukukaja and I already did that
each time I try it, she doesn't seem to notice that it's already done
am I missing something that would help me level it up?
it's really frustrating for me

I took it from a FAQ for all the request from people, Marageth and the Fox

=========================================================
Request No.1
Make a Ippon-datara(Hermit) with the Skill Sukukaja

Required Lv 17
Possible Fusions
(Temperance) Sylph(Sukukaja) X (Justice) Archangel
(Death) Ghoul(LV10:Sukukaja) X (Fool) Obariyon
=========================================================

Well, these have to be made from fusions, but I'm not sure if this particular persona can learn Sukukaja from scratch.
I don't know if you're aware, but when fusing personas, if you get out of the screen before accepting and then go back, the skills your new persona will learn will change, so once you know which personas to use, it's quite easy.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Gen Eric Gui on June 14, 2010, 04:53:40 PM
I believe you have to actually have the Persona in your roster.  If you made it and fused it, you need to re-summon it.  Or, if you forgot to save the skillset, then you'll need to make it again.

And those keychains are hideous.  Just give me a Naoto and Yosuke resin statue already, nobody cares about Rise.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: CDFN on June 14, 2010, 06:16:42 PM
nobody cares about Rise.

I do.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: lordyuanshu on June 15, 2010, 12:33:08 AM
With Strange Journey I end up using the Enemy Welcome Sub-App because I'd rather fight enemies faster than have to walk around and around to get a battle to commence. For bosses like Ouroboros you're going to have to grind to get good demons either way so I'd rather do it gradually over the course of the sector than have to do it all at once and get burnt out from it.

Made it to Grus Sector; Drake Tiamat took a while to beat with 4500+ HP but at least didn't trounce me for hours like version 2 of Ouroboros.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: CosmicSisyphus on June 18, 2010, 05:12:33 PM
Well, I just completed DDS 1 and 2. I was surprised by the amount of Hindu and Buddhist allusions. I liked the main theme of pantheism and the ending.

Quote
Digital Devil Saga is the story about reaching Nirvana through Moksha ("reincarnation"). Moksha is depicted as breaking the cycle of data reincarnation, or commonly known as Samsara, and becoming one with the supreme being. In the cutscene revealing Serph's past, Schroedinger clarifies on this concept, "All things in this world are composed of data. Human beings, you, myself, even the world itself... Data originates from God, and to God it returns. This is the cycle of universe. Beyond this knowledge lies enlightenment--understanding what is truly important..." In Digital Devil Saga 2's ending, Seraph unites with Brahman, which is immanent within all things.

I would like to emphasize on the difference between pantheism and panentheism. In Loving Ganesha, Satguru Sivaya Subramuniyaswami clarified on the difference between pantheism and panentheism:

    Panenetheism: "all-in-God doctrine." The view that the universe is part of the being of God, as distinguished from pantheism ("all-is-God doctrine"), which identifies God with the total reality. In contrast, panentheism holds that God pervades the world, but is also beyond it. He is immanent and transcendent, relative and Absolute. This embracing of opposites is called dipolar. For the panentheist, God is in all, and all is in God (478).

Panentheism considers God to be immanent within all creation and our universe as a part of a transcendent God whereas pantheism equates God and the universe to be coextensive, the assertion it IS God. The former believes in the immanence and transcendence of God whilst the latter believes God and the universe to be the same implying the "abandonment of a transcendent deity" (Wood).

After Seraph proves himself/herself to Brahma, s/he attains enlightenment by uniting with it. Thus, Seraph breaks the cycle of data reincarnation.

The reason Seraph sees images of history and war is due to the recognition of how divisions create meaningless strife. Rather than embracing the fact “all we need is one word”, people created illusory divisions and murdered each other. Thus, they were incapable of breaking the cycle of data reincarnation as Schroedinger outside indicated: “Until they realize it [the perfect unity as embodied by one word which serves as a metaphor for Brahman], their suffering will never end… The solar data will simply recycle them endlessly, for all eternity.”

Seraph becomes one with Brahman, which permeates all of reality, hence the quote "I am you, you are me." This is a popular saying in both pantheism and panentheism because it indicates a lack of distinction between persons (i.g., interconnectedness). Furthermore, Seraph realizes we are all manifestations of a singular universal axiom. You do not name a tree by its leaves, so you cannot name yourself by your body. I can pluck off a leaf and say, "This is a part of a mighty oak," but that does not make the leaf an oak or the oak a leaf. They are both nothing without the other and everything together

The concept of LOGOS and Brahman are similar, as are many religious concepts from around the world. If you study Hinduism, Buddhism, and Heracliitus' philosophy, you'd see many similarities, one being the notion of interconnectedness and God embodying all of reality and its axioms. In panentheism, God's role extends further than this, for it is also immanent and transcendent. It underlies every material process and more. In Digital Devil Saga 2, it is blatantly stated all data originates from God only to be recycled. By attaining enlightenment, one unites with the panentheistic God and goes beyond the cycle of data.

Seraph’s quote "You are the world, the world is myself” indicates she overcame Maya ("illusion of a false dichotomy of self and the universe") by recognizing there is no distinction between physical matter (“the world”) and consciousness (“myself” and other beings). An equivalent claim would be that the universe is the subject, from an analytic philosophy perspective. The consequences are interesting. It means that w're, fundamentally, physical contingencies, and we're all the same kind of physical contingency. Jayaram elaborates on this concept, "In [Brahman's] role as Concealer, He unleashes the power of Maya... to conceal Himself from what He creates [data] and delude all the living beings (jivas) into thinking that what they experience through their senses is true and that they are independent of the objects and other beings they perceive through their senses. Maya therefore causes ignorance and through ignorance perpetuates the notion of duality, which is responsible for our bondage and mortality upon earth." The phenomenology of enlightenment, by overcoming the Maya, is best described through a popular ocean metaphor:

    "Imagine a drop of water. You are that drop of water. When you become enlightened that drop of water is placed into the ocean. You become the ocean and the ocean is you. The ocean in this case would be all of existence. You do not cease to exist, you become everything" (Figament).

The best way to describe it is you feel yourself expanding. The chair becomes the desk and the desk is now the chair. Your hand doesn't end when you pick up the glass, and the water inside is already in your veins before you ever drink it. This probably explains why Schrodinger possessed the ability to turn into a cat since he gained power over data.

Finally, Seraph decides to transverse among other dimensions helping other other beings attain enlightenment. I believe the terminals on Brahman symbolize infinity, hence it spans across all dimension. The terminals provided access to Amala Network (a place that connects all probable dimensions and outcomes) in Shin Megami Tensei: Network.

Works Cited

Figament. "Differences between Mahavira and Buddha?" Yahoo! Answers. N.p., 2009. Web. 20 Jun 2010. [http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090328121631AA4Egrp].

Jayaram. "Delusion - The Power of Maya and The Nature of Reality." Hindu Website. N.p., n.d. Web. 20 Jun 2010. [http://www.hinduwebsite.com/hinduism/h_maya.asp].

Shin Megami Tensei: Digtial Devil Saga 2. Atlus, 2005. DVD.

Subramuniya, Subramuniya. Loving Ganesa. Himalayan Academy Publications, 2000. 478. Print.

Wood, Harold. "Pantheism and Panentheism." Pantheist Net. N.p., n.d. Web. 20 Jun 2010. [http://www.pantheist.net/society/panentheism.html].

The story was incredible and intelligent unlike most Japanese RPGS. I’m disappointed by how Persona 3 and 4 no longer follow Carl Jung’s psychology. Persona 2 was chock-full of allusions and actually possessed a more literate story.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: MeshGearFox on June 18, 2010, 09:32:03 PM
P2 was more about Jung. P3 was more about how modern life turns you into a manipulative jackass without any real personality underneath the myriad of public personae you create to get what you want, or at least that's how I saw it.

Personally I just want a remake of P1 and P2 where you have Nocturne-quality dungeons, though. I mean, I voiced this issue before, but the longish battles didn't bug me in P1. The Americanization didn't bug me. Being easier and having a lower encounter rate? Shit no that was a *good* thing. Black Mark? I fucking loved Blark. The overworld map? Sorta slow but I liked how trippy it looked. The music? I loved the original music.

And they changed all that and left the stupid dungeons the same. Waargh :(

P2's dungeons were only slightly better on the scale of "random confusing mazes".
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Farron on June 22, 2010, 07:00:43 PM
Well, since Atlus announced their support for the 3DS and mentioned their persona franchise, we could hope for the best, Persona 2 (both of them) and hopefully truly remade, with 3D graphics and with a bearable encounter rate.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: kyuusei on July 08, 2010, 01:07:49 AM
Please tell me someone else here got P3P.

I got the only non-reserved copy, but I'm still pretty early in. I don't mind the changes so far and there's enough changes to feel sort of new. Oh and apparently Theodore's voice actor sucks. :P
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Kstar on July 08, 2010, 01:12:45 AM
Please tell me someone else here got P3P.

I got the only non-reserved copy, but I'm still pretty early in. I don't mind the changes so far and there's enough changes to feel sort of new. Oh and apparently Theodore's voice actor sucks. :P

That means you got a PSP?  YAY!!!  What color did you end up with?
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: kyuusei on July 08, 2010, 01:40:26 AM
I got the white (Assassin's Creed: Bloodlines) bundle :) It was far less embarrassing to buy that than ...certain other PSP bundles (though I got carded since AC2 is rated M... :P) and $150 for the whole thing.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Kstar on July 08, 2010, 02:40:51 AM
hehe I knew you'd cave for a SMT game - that and we all know the Junpei s. link is just too tempting to pass up. 
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: kyuusei on July 08, 2010, 02:56:49 AM
Two SMT games! If I get around to buying Persona, that is. Oh and I've already started that social link. I know he's not DATEable, but while every girl drools over Akihiko (why I don't know), Junpei is just more fun. ;)
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Kstar on July 08, 2010, 03:03:13 AM
Yeah, I don't get it either, he's full of himself, but I guess he does have kinda a sexy voice.  On another note, Akihiko's S. Link can't be unlocked unless you have the courage to be seen with him because other girls will be jealous.  Ugh, why can't he be laid back and easy like Junpei?  (yes, I meant that how it sounded). 
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: kyuusei on July 08, 2010, 03:15:52 AM
But of course, we all know he's easy...

Then again, it'd be boring if the guys were the same. Now that I think about it, I seem to recall a friend saying Akihiko's s-link actually makes him somewhat more interesting, like adds a new dimension to his character or whatever. We'll see about that. :P
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: jello44 on July 08, 2010, 07:51:14 PM
Please tell me someone else here got P3P.

I got the only non-reserved copy, but I'm still pretty early in. I don't mind the changes so far and there's enough changes to feel sort of new. Oh and apparently Theodore's voice actor sucks. :P

Yes, my copy is still sealed, sitting next to me, while I wait for my PSP to arrive. (I bought another copy at Best Buy so it would go towards my gamers club rewards D: )

I'll just return the unopened game/system I bought from Gamestop tomorrow.

I wanna play as the girl for shits n giggiles, I mean, the MC from the original was practically one anyway, so it doesn't change things too much. :P
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Raze on July 08, 2010, 10:20:41 PM
 I don't have a psp, but I heard the female battle theme on youtube. They sure love making bad themes that are really good.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Gen Eric Gui on July 08, 2010, 11:20:06 PM
Please tell me someone else here got P3P.

I got the only non-reserved copy, but I'm still pretty early in. I don't mind the changes so far and there's enough changes to feel sort of new. Oh and apparently Theodore's voice actor sucks. :P

Yes, my copy is still sealed, sitting next to me, while I wait for my PSP to arrive. (I bought another copy at Best Buy so it would go towards my gamers club rewards D: )

I'll just return the unopened game/system I bought from Gamestop tomorrow.

I wanna play as the girl for shits n giggiles, I mean, the MC from the original was practically one anyway, so it doesn't change things too much. :P

...Minato was manlier than the entire cast of Gears of War.  Not only does he basically have sex with every girl he meets, but he single-handedly defeats the embodiment of death.  If that's not manly enough for you then I don't even want to know what is.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: kyuusei on July 09, 2010, 12:19:24 AM
I'm guessing what jello meant was, he didn't exactly LOOK very manly. (I could be wrong in my guess.) To me, he wasn't all that feminine either though.

I was reading some stuff on SiliconEra basically comparing the protagonists and their implied 'personalities' - and how different they are. It was interesting, I'm looking forward to seeing just how different they are. I'm still way early in.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Gen Eric Gui on July 09, 2010, 10:43:49 AM
I'm pretty sure that's what he was doing too.  But I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt, because "lol Minato looks kinda girly" jokes were boring before the game even came out the first time around.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Dizzy on July 09, 2010, 04:02:37 PM
I'm pretty sure that's what he was doing too.  But I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt, because "lol Minato looks kinda girly" jokes were boring before the game even came out the first time around.
I think the "lol P3 is such an emo game because he has emo hair" ones were even worse. Especially cause, you know, he was FAR from it. :P

Anywho, I got the game on release, along with the hat. Started a run with the girl, and wow, I feel like I'm in a new dimension. Junpei being flirty with me, Yukari being a lot more friendlier, and Akihiko's fangirl NPCs being infinitely jealous of me... I think I like this. Blasting through this game another six more times should be pretty easy. ;]

Also, <3 Rio.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: jello44 on July 09, 2010, 06:26:25 PM
I'm guessing what jello meant was, he didn't exactly LOOK very manly. (I could be wrong in my guess.) To me, he wasn't all that feminine either though.

I was reading some stuff on SiliconEra basically comparing the protagonists and their implied 'personalities' - and how different they are. It was interesting, I'm looking forward to seeing just how different they are. I'm still way early in.

Yeah, don't mind me, I tend to make shitty jokes all the time. :P
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: CosmicSisyphus on July 11, 2010, 04:03:27 AM
P2 was more about Jung.

Speaking of the Jungian themes, I've recently found a small entry that delves into them:

http://darkmaterials.com/persona/jung/index.html

For anyone interested...

Also, I recently completed Persona 4, and I thought it was naive at some parts. I thought it was strange how the main theme was all about having friends supporting you in following your dream. Many of the characters, such as Igor, blatantly claimed forming bonds (aka social links) help one achieve his or her goals. Persona 2 was all about confronting your shadows by yourself and trying to accomplish your goals alone. Maya in P2:IS repeatedly states no one can help you achieve your dream but yourself...

Ending spoilers

Quote
I found Persona 4 very infantile. Adachi actually had a good point, but the protagonists simply cussed him out. I don't agree with Adachi, but I can understand where he's coming from. I don't think pushing him into a corner and repeating "**** you!" will accomplish anything... I found this part in the game ludicrous because it was becoming an interesting "pit your ideology against mine" moment, but instead, it became a "cuss out the villain moment because he is the epitome of eviiiil".

Moreover, I found it funny how the game correlated bonds with truth ('myriad of truths'). Bonds are quite possibly the most precarious of all things since the self is empty of inherent existence (i.g., it is in a constant flux). Moreover, we can only befriend the images, we form in our mind, of people and their current incarnation of self is subject to change. Thus, the friendship formed is ephemeral. I am all about friendship, but truth is not within subjectivity. A bond is all about subjectivity... See the contradiction? There is no such thing as an eternal friend... because it is, simply put, physically impossible for someone to remain stagnant. So then what's up with the main message being bonds strengthening one's search for truth?

Truth is within objective propositions disregarding human emotions. A simulacrum is not true... I know Persona 2 had some lovey dovey moments too, but it never made outrageously Disney claims like "bonds are what will lead you to truth". Neither did Persona 3...

You are the only one that can accomplish your dream, to quote Maya, and the notion of bonds helping you reach the truth or dreams is an illusory one. Not trying to come off as nihilistic, but I'm just stating the facts.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Itches on July 11, 2010, 11:06:19 AM
Quote
I never thought the "forming a bond" part was really tied to uncovering the truth. I've always thought the bonds were meant as things that help you persevere. I also could tolerate how they handled the adachi situation because they're highschool kids and I don't expect them to really behave differently.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: kyuusei on July 11, 2010, 11:53:43 AM
I disagree, but only partially. It is always helpful to have friends/some sort of support network, but as for actually reaching your goals - it's up to you to make that push yourself.

As for P4...
Code: [Select]
...and how they handled Adachi, they ARE a little young. Remember, they range from 14 to maybe 17 at best. If Adachi did all that to your friends and even worse your family - to the point where one who's practically your little sister DIES (albeit temporarily) - you're not going to be thinking about ideologies when confronting him. Yes it would have made for an interesting conversation, but P4 is probably the LAST MegaTen game I'd expect it in.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Farron on July 12, 2010, 07:26:42 PM
I decided today that I'll simply not play Strange Journey anymore, which I found hard to do but felt like I had to. The overall game is good but in every sector we go the higher the floor the more boring it gets, it almost feels like a drag. The maps get so confused and complicated, but most of them are bearable but the parts with invisible paths )where we can't see our way, and now in Sector D we have some walking floors as well. Unless I use a map in gamefaqs or something it would take me forever, oh and I should not forget to mention the invisible doors.

I find it kinda sad because the mood of the game is good, the plot is interesting, and all the bonuses that come along with most SMT games but these shortcomings along with a game where you have to be on your toes to not die, and get lost and not being able to advance ...

Anyone else felt like it while playing ? Maybe I'm in a more streamlined RPG mood, I don't know, I may come back for it, but definitively not soon.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: MeshGearFox on July 12, 2010, 07:48:16 PM
Quote
a game where you have to be on your toes to not die

Maybe it gets harder later but halfway through Sector D and I still haven't found anything remotely challenging about this game.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Starmongoose on July 12, 2010, 08:57:41 PM
I'm playing Persona 4 again just now, I gave up on Strange Journey a while back. It's a really solid game, the dungeons were just to long for me. I would have to switch them off after getting nowhere, then pick it up the next day completely forgotten not only what I was doing and where I am, but also which demons I had and what they did. Maybe that's just bad memory on my part though.


Talking about Persona 4 though...this game makes me want to eat Chinese every time I play it. Even though it's set in Japan, the only Japanese food you see is sushi, and I am not fond of that. Though you do spend a good amount of time at the Chinese diner eating a never ending bowl of meat which I wish was real.

I also want to try a Steak Croquette. Dunno what it is or looks like though. All I know is that it is apparently delicious and has healing properties.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Farron on July 12, 2010, 09:15:52 PM
I quote you on that, the dungeons are way to long, they sometimes feel more like a chore.

About chinese food, don't feel bad because japanese people eat a lot of pasta (not in the italian way) and if you're not into sushi or sashimi you could try yakisoba while playing Persona 4 (I can't remember for sure but I think I did eat it sometime while playing P3 or P4, as I used to order it a lot!
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Yggdrasil on July 12, 2010, 09:46:10 PM
I also want to try a Steak Croquette. Dunno what it is or looks like though. All I know is that it is apparently delicious and has healing properties.

Steak Croquette? That's sounds delicious. :P
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: MeshGearFox on July 12, 2010, 10:04:29 PM
God I hate sushi :|

Steak croquette is PROBABLY a breaded, fried wad of stake. Possibly a chopped steak and potato mixture.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Starmongoose on July 12, 2010, 10:06:27 PM
I hope it's chopped steak in a potato mixture, fried. Cause that sounds heavenly.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: kyuusei on July 13, 2010, 02:11:21 AM
I find P4 drags a LOT in parts, especially the dungeons. Haven't gotten far in Strange Journey yet but I kinda see how the dungeons might get tedious.

P3 and 4 always put me in the mood for steak and ramen. :P
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: ttocs on July 13, 2010, 01:18:57 PM
I must be too American or something because whenever I see game characters talk about Ramen and how good someone makes it, all I can think about is dumping the Ramen brick I bought for 12 cents from the store into boiling water and adding powder.  I need to find me some good ramen or something because if their commentary says anything, it states that I'm missing something.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Chronix112 on July 13, 2010, 02:03:15 PM
I must be too American or something because whenever I see game characters talk about Ramen and how good someone makes it, all I can think about is dumping the Ramen brick I bought for 12 cents from the store into boiling water and adding powder.  I need to find me some good ramen or something because if their commentary says anything, it states that I'm missing something.
Ramen out of those 15 cent packs don't even compare. Go to Ichiban steakhouse and order a deluxe ramen bowl.  Omg, they are so awesome!
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Fadedsun on July 13, 2010, 02:09:31 PM
I must be too American or something because whenever I see game characters talk about Ramen and how good someone makes it, all I can think about is dumping the Ramen brick I bought for 12 cents from the store into boiling water and adding powder.  I need to find me some good ramen or something because if their commentary says anything, it states that I'm missing something.

I've bought some good miso flavored ramen from the store, but ramen from a good restaurant is always delicious.

There's a place in Boston called Ken's Ramen. It's in this Asian supermarket called the Super 88. It has the best Ramen hands down. I'm not sure how true it is, but I've read that the owner takes frequent trips to japan just to learn more about making ramen and get better recipes or to make his recipes better. That's awesome.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Kevadu on July 13, 2010, 02:36:56 PM
I must be too American or something because whenever I see game characters talk about Ramen and how good someone makes it, all I can think about is dumping the Ramen brick I bought for 12 cents from the store into boiling water and adding powder.  I need to find me some good ramen or something because if their commentary says anything, it states that I'm missing something.

Finding good ramen outside of Japan is a challenge.  I can recommend a couple of places in New York City, but after living in Seattle for years the best place I have been able to find is called "Samurai Noodle" and is about what you might expect from that name...

For best results you'll need to go to Japan.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Aeolus on July 13, 2010, 07:32:46 PM
There's a place in Boston called Ken's Ramen.

Is that the place next to Ryu's Burgers?
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Fadedsun on July 14, 2010, 06:33:25 AM
There's a place in Boston called Ken's Ramen.

Is that the place next to Ryu's Burgers?

Haha! Good one. I took that seriously at first and thought, hmm, I don't think...wait.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Gen Eric Gui on July 14, 2010, 02:03:35 PM
It's actually across the street from Nina's BBQ Grill.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: insertnamehere on July 16, 2010, 06:52:45 AM
I read something a while ago about some online, probably browser based version of Persona 3
how much attention is it gonna get from atlus?
source of information about The Night Before Persona 3 (http://www.digitaldevildb.com/bbs/index.php?topic=581)
Persona Ain Soph doesn't seem to be working now (http://p00.atlusnet.jp/)
Digital Devil Arcanum has spiffy title screen music (http://jakyo.atlusnet.jp/)
"The Night Before" was supposedly only connected to Persona 3 by being set in port island.
and it also supposedly involves tartarus
and from everything I can assume about ain soph, it's associated with "infinity" instead of a number such 0, 1, 2, 3, or 4
and that's based on "ain soph" being spelled similarly to ein soph, a divine infinite being according to Wikipedia.
not sure if it's been talked about at all in this thread or not.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Fadedsun on July 26, 2010, 08:31:32 AM
I just wanted to say that I enjoyed your editorial on Persona and SMT, Neal. SMT didn't help me get any closer to my parents, but it did help me gain an interest in the different mythologies/religions around the world, especially Hinduism. SMT will always be my favorite game series.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Dincrest on July 26, 2010, 11:26:26 AM
Thanks dude.  Heh, but now I realize I haven't played a MegaTen game since P4. 
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Starmongoose on July 26, 2010, 12:33:23 PM
I too enjoyed it, I twatted it on my Twitter.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Lard on August 04, 2010, 02:56:26 PM
Seriously, where is the tower of kagutsuchi in Nocturne ? I can't remember how to get there and different faqs are giving conflicting info. It's in theObelisk but where?
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: MeshGearFox on August 04, 2010, 04:15:27 PM
I thought the Tower of Kagutsuchi was the big fucking toewr in the middle of the world?
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Lard on August 04, 2010, 04:23:47 PM
It's in the Obelisk. One faq said take a non descript elevator on the second floor that i can't find, the other said go to the top. I did and nothing's there. I have no idea where to go and I'm getting irritated.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Starmongoose on August 04, 2010, 04:24:45 PM
I think you enter the Obelisk from the front, complete whatever the block puzzles in there, and then you should get to an elevator which will take you up to the tower? That might not be it, I can't really remember. I might be thinking of the tower where the Moire sisters are.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Lard on August 04, 2010, 04:32:15 PM
That's the first time. Then you go back when the Tower is formed. UGH.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Lard on August 04, 2010, 04:40:31 PM
This is what the faq says but it's *wrong* and I don't know where to go.

When you enter, go North and ride the block to the next floor.  There are Mystical Chests at the Northeast and Northwest corners of this area, and a lift to the next floor in the North-centre.  Run around the edge to the South side and you'll find two lifts, take the block, not the glowing white  elevator.  Step into the white light and choose to ascend.  When you examinethe object in front of you, you will be taken to the Tower of Kagutsuchi.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Starmongoose on August 04, 2010, 04:42:48 PM
This is what the faq says but it's *wrong* and I don't know where to go.

When you enter, go North and ride the block to the next floor.  There are Mystical Chests at the Northeast and Northwest corners of this area, and a lift to the next floor in the North-centre.  Run around the edge to the South side and you'll find two lifts, take the block, not the glowing white  elevator.  Step into the white light and choose to ascend.  When you examinethe object in front of you, you will be taken to the Tower of Kagutsuchi.

Hang on, I have a save just before the last boss. I will go backwards from there and try and give you the path.


EDIT: Damn it, sorry. The door is locked on floor 167 and I can't go back any further.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Lard on August 04, 2010, 05:01:38 PM
FFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUCCCCCCCCCCKK
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Lard on August 04, 2010, 06:13:45 PM
Anyone? This is retarded.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Starmongoose on August 04, 2010, 06:20:39 PM
The only thing I can find is a youtube video where he starts already at the white elevator. All I can tell you is that the white elevator is on the 666 floor.

EDIT: Scartch that, wrong white elevator. i am of little use to anyone today.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Lard on August 04, 2010, 06:28:16 PM
Thanks for trying at least.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: CDFN on August 04, 2010, 06:39:53 PM
According to some other faq:

Enter the Obelisk and take the elevator to 150F. There, examine the core, and go to Kagutsuchi Tower.

Dunno if that helps, I can't remember for the life of me.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Lard on August 04, 2010, 06:47:37 PM
I tried that. But thanks.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Lard on August 04, 2010, 06:54:18 PM
You can only get as high as 142. That takes you to the room with white light. It says no one is there and sends you back down. This is why I'm so fucking frustrated.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: CDFN on August 04, 2010, 07:03:02 PM
Did you examine the upside down pyramid in the outdoor area of amala temple?
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Lard on August 04, 2010, 07:06:34 PM
Yes. Done that. Got the movie of the tower being formed. I just can't find the fucking thing.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: CDFN on August 04, 2010, 07:12:17 PM
After that it says:

Take the terminal to the second area of the Assembly of Nihilo and head towards the Obelisk. Enter the Obelisk from the front.
When you enter, go North and ride the block to the next floor.  There are
Mystical Chests at the Northeast and Northwest corners of this area, and a
lift to the next floor in the North-centre.  Run around the edge to the South
side and you'll find two lifts, take the block, not the glowing white 
elevator.  Step into the white light and choose to ascend.  When you examine
the object in front of you, you will be taken to the Tower of Kagutsuchi.


Man, I wish I could remember this but it's been such a long time. Are you sure you're following these steps right?


Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Lard on August 04, 2010, 07:33:10 PM
I've followed them EXACTLY. I can't find thse supposed two lifts.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Starmongoose on August 05, 2010, 02:37:36 PM
Does anyone else get a kick out of Ulala calling everyone a fucking bastard at the start of every fight? I don't want to appear childish for being amused by a swear word, it's just rare to see that attitude in RPGs and it makes me happy.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Aeolus on August 05, 2010, 03:30:46 PM
Does anyone else get a kick out of Ulala calling everyone a fucking bastard at the start of every fight? I don't want to appear childish for being amused by a swear word, it's just rare to see that attitude in RPGs and it makes me happy.

You should play Nier then if you enjoy that so much.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Fadedsun on August 05, 2010, 03:48:56 PM
Does anyone else get a kick out of Ulala calling everyone a fucking bastard at the start of every fight? I don't want to appear childish for being amused by a swear word, it's just rare to see that attitude in RPGs and it makes me happy.

"Don't underestimate me you F**cking bastards!" They have to bleep it out :P I wonder why?
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: MeshGearFox on August 05, 2010, 05:11:42 PM
Remember how everyone is all "BLUH-BLAH-BLOO NINTENDO SYSTEMS ARE KIDDY" and then Strange Journey comes out and everyone's running around screaming "Shit!!!!!111" and fighting giant animated piles of dicks and boobs?

Alternatively Nintendo is still kiddy and today's kids are just really awesome like that.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Aeolus on August 07, 2010, 12:45:38 AM
Remember how everyone is all "BLUH-BLAH-BLOO NINTENDO SYSTEMS ARE KIDDY" and then Strange Journey comes out and everyone's running around screaming "Shit!!!!!111" and fighting giant animated piles of dicks and boobs?

Alternatively Nintendo is still kiddy and today's kids are just really awesome like that.

I blame the internet for corrupting our children.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Starmongoose on August 07, 2010, 12:49:55 AM
Funny, I blame kids for corrupting my Internet.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Farron on September 16, 2010, 12:58:20 AM
Once I read it I simply felt like I HAD TO share this with you guys.
It's an article titled Megaten Games Should Be More Controversial Than They Are (http://gamrfeed.vgchartz.com/story/81996/megaten-games-should-be-more-controversial-than-they-are/) from Vgchartz.

To put it simply it's a must read for anyone who have played a SMT game. It points the controversial points the games have (it does have a few spoilers but nothing major as far as I know), why it's so intelligent and more.
I think it's one of the best video game related articles I've read in a long time.

Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Starmongoose on September 16, 2010, 01:13:52 AM
I don't know if I would want the game more controversial, as that would lead to even more ignorant hate speeches, acts of violence, censorship and hysteria from people who would rather get upset about something than truly listen to what it is trying to say. I would prefer it if it was even more thought-provoking whilst staying under nut-job radar. It's been a long time since I saw something shocking and had to decide whether or not that is the right or wrong thing to do.

It's just a nit-pick about word choice, the article itself was good. Though Kanji totally wasn't gay, even if people think he is. Just sayin'.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Farron on September 16, 2010, 02:08:09 AM
I also think he wasn't gay, if anyone Naoto was the one dressing like the opposite sex.

I don't know if I would want the game more controversial, as that would lead to even more ignorant hate speeches, acts of violence, censorship and hysteria from people who would rather get upset about something than truly listen to what it is trying to say.
It's just a nit-pick about word choice, the article itself was good. Though Kanji totally wasn't gay, even if people think he is. Just sayin'.

From what I got, they already are controversial, but thankfully to some level, they are not as high profiled as say, Modern Warfare or GTA so those censorship bastards don't give it much attention. Reading the article makes me want to go back to Nocturne and start over Persona 2.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: kyuusei on September 16, 2010, 02:21:53 AM
I also think he wasn't gay, if anyone Naoto was the one dressing like the opposite sex.

That's more an issue of gender identity rather than sexual orientation. :)

I like how controversial SMT is already but I'd rather it not go overboard and end up in the media like GTA etc. Probably because I'm selfish and want it to stay semi-niche, and it IS more thought provoking than CoD (not that it takes much) already. It's also one of the (many) ways SMT stands out in JRPGs.. they have shock value. :P
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Darilon on September 16, 2010, 10:19:03 AM
Though Kanji totally wasn't gay, even if people think he is. Just sayin'.

I always thought that. If anyone was gay it was Yosuke. Although since he liked Chie perhaps Bisexual would be a better term.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: cj_iwakura on September 16, 2010, 11:57:19 AM
Firmly in the 'Kanji is straight' camp here. Some people think Chie and Yukiko have a thing, but I never saw that.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: hell_snake on September 16, 2010, 02:58:28 PM
Firmly in the 'Kanji is straight' camp here. Some people think Chie and Yukiko have a thing, but I never saw that.

People see what they wanna see.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: insertnamehere on September 16, 2010, 04:16:04 PM
I have a question about DDS.
ESRB says it has "intense violence" but how intense is it?
on a scale of 1 to 10 with 5 being average?
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Fadedsun on September 16, 2010, 04:49:21 PM
I have a question about DDS.
ESRB says it has "intense violence" but how intense is it?
on a scale of 1 to 10 with 5 being average?

I would say 8? Maybe. There's some violent scenes.

Side note: I just got a couple Kaneko art books! One is the first Kaneko Art Works book, and the other is one with tons of character artwork from the Devil Summoner and Persona games. I had my friend from Japan order them for me because I couldn't buy them in America. Well, you can buy the Art Works books from some websites and on ebay, but the other book I had to have him look up on the Amazon Japan website in Japanese in order to find it. I will cherish these forever.

Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: kyuusei on September 16, 2010, 04:58:39 PM
I have a question about DDS.
ESRB says it has "intense violence" but how intense is it?
on a scale of 1 to 10 with 5 being average?
Fairly violent and at times bloody. You can eat your enemies, so...

Quote
Side note: I just got a couple Kaneko art books! One is the first Kaneko Art Works book, and the other is one with tons of character artwork from the Devil Summoner and Persona games. I had my friend from Japan order them for me because I couldn't buy them in America. Well, you can buy the Art Works books from some websites and on ebay, but the other book I had to have him look up on the Amazon Japan website in Japanese in order to find it. I will cherish these forever.

Jealous. I would love one of these if it had DDS/Nocturne art too. I'd be able to type game titles in Japanese but I can't read descriptions worth shit.

Re: Chie and Yukiko, I didn't see anything more than friends either. Yosuke struck me as a gay/bi possibility. But personally I couldn't stand him so I didn't give him much thought. :P
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Farron on September 16, 2010, 06:01:20 PM
Maybe some people think of the Chie and Yukiko thing because Chie is a bit of a tomboy girl and since they are close friends well, we start imagining things.

Now we're all talking about love partners in Persona 4, one thing that made me sad was that we couldn't have a "thing" with the Nurse. She was so cool and a lot of times she was clearly teasing you.
Both her and Tanaka (the Devil social links) are probably my favorite links of the games.
(http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20081225122431/megamitensei/images/thumb/1/11/P4-Sayoko.jpg/100px-P4-Sayoko.jpg)
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: hell_snake on September 16, 2010, 06:24:11 PM
Maybe some people think of the Chie and Yukiko thing because Chie is a bit of a tomboy girl and since they are close friends well, we start imagining things.

Now we're all talking about love partners in Persona 4, one thing that made me sad was that we couldn't have a "thing" with the Nurse. She was so cool and a lot of times she was clearly teasing you.
Both her and Tanaka (the Devil social links) are probably my favorite links of the games.
(http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20081225122431/megamitensei/images/thumb/1/11/P4-Sayoko.jpg/100px-P4-Sayoko.jpg)

Wait... What were those private sessions where the screen goes dark then?
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: CDFN on September 16, 2010, 06:32:48 PM
Maybe some people think of the Chie and Yukiko thing because Chie is a bit of a tomboy girl and since they are close friends well, we start imagining things.

Now we're all talking about love partners in Persona 4, one thing that made me sad was that we couldn't have a "thing" with the Nurse. She was so cool and a lot of times she was clearly teasing you.
Both her and Tanaka (the Devil social links) are probably my favorite links of the games.
(http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20081225122431/megamitensei/images/thumb/1/11/P4-Sayoko.jpg/100px-P4-Sayoko.jpg)

Wait... What were those private sessions where the screen goes dark then?

There was a lot of action, we just didn't see it.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: xXMelancholiaXx on September 16, 2010, 10:13:10 PM
Maybe some people think of the Chie and Yukiko thing because Chie is a bit of a tomboy girl and since they are close friends well, we start imagining things.
Yukiko refers to Chie as a "Prince" several times...
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: cj_iwakura on September 16, 2010, 10:47:04 PM
I have a question about DDS.
ESRB says it has "intense violence" but how intense is it?
on a scale of 1 to 10 with 5 being average?

DDS1 has some blood, occasional impalings.


DDS2 can get really gory.

I'd say 7 and 8, respectively.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Kevadu on September 16, 2010, 10:52:28 PM
Wait, where did this Yosuke is gay/bi nonsense come from?  That thought had never even crossed my mind.  Is there something specific?
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: MeshGearFox on September 16, 2010, 11:01:04 PM
It's a JRPG the homoeroticism is implicit.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Gen Eric Gui on September 17, 2010, 12:12:39 AM
Maybe some people think of the Chie and Yukiko thing because Chie is a bit of a tomboy girl and since they are close friends well, we start imagining things.
Yukiko refers to Chie as a "Prince" several times...

That's pretty obviously a metaphorical reference.  Chie was Yukiko's only out in terms of her various family problems and duties, her friendship with Chie gave her a reason to keep going, just like how the prince saves the princess in a fairy tale.

I guess people are just stupid and want to see homoeroticism so badly in everything that they turn a blind eye to the exceedingly obvious.  Just like with Kanji.  The game freaking TELLS you he's not gay, the whole problem was that he was afraid that his "girly" hobbies of being interested in textiles and sewing/knitting would get out and that people would make fun of him for it.  He THINKS that because he likes a "girly" hobby that he might be gay, but then realizes through his confrontation with his shadow self that the real problem is rooted deeper and he comes to terms with himself.  It's really not a very complex issue and I thought the game did an excellent job of explaining everything to the player, but people just get incredibly stupid when it comes to stuff like this.

The "Yousuke might be gay" thing probably comes from a misinterpretation of an early developer interview where it was stated that you could get into a relationship with Yousuke.  They were really just talking about the fact that you could have S.Links with all the male party members, but it was initially translated as that you could date them and a lot of people fell for it.  See also: fangirls like the homosex.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: xXMelancholiaXx on September 17, 2010, 12:27:40 AM
Maybe some people think of the Chie and Yukiko thing because Chie is a bit of a tomboy girl and since they are close friends well, we start imagining things.
Yukiko refers to Chie as a "Prince" several times...
That's pretty obviously a metaphorical reference.  Chie was Yukiko's only out in terms of her various family problems and duties, her friendship with Chie gave her a reason to keep going, just like how the prince saves the princess in a fairy tale.
Indeed. I was merely pointing to dialogue that could have been misconstrued and used to support that notion. 
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: kyuusei on September 17, 2010, 12:39:46 AM
I thought she mainly referred to Chie as a 'prince' when it was Shadow!Yukiko anyways. Outside of that, they just seemed like BFF to me.

I too just figured Kanji qA ashamed of his girly hobbies. It seemed like he only momentarily questioned his sexuality BECAUSE of Naoto, who we thought was a guy at the time... Even when she was revealed as a female, he still had a thing for her (I thought).
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Starmongoose on September 17, 2010, 09:10:40 AM
If anything, Kanji's sexuallity only came up after the Bathhouse because Yosuke wouldn't stop mentioning it. I've met a few "straight" guys who when they actually meet a gay guy constantly bring up their sexuality because, really, they have something they want to get off their chest. I've had this conversation with at least 3 guys, I have learned to just be polite when it happens.


"So, you're gay?"

"Yeah."

"Me too."

"Oh?"

"HAHAHAHAH, omg no! I was KIDDING. Geezus! Hahaha....heh..."
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: MeshGearFox on September 17, 2010, 11:29:15 PM
WTF is his name Kanji anyway?

If I ever have kids I'm naming them Alphabet and Abjad. Unless one is a girl in which case I'm naming her Eggnog. And if the other one's also a girl I'm naming her Sproot.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Dice on September 17, 2010, 11:36:18 PM
Something about a little girl named Eggnog running around makes me giggle. (til she hit's 12, then you frown and wonder)

Japanese are notorious for this, no?
Bleach's main character is named (I like to put a Pimp-twist to it and say it in a Barry White tone) Strawbeeerry.  Venus and Braves had the leads Blood, Vivid and Ariah.  Xenoblade has Shulk and Florung (say that ten times fast).  And I'm pretty sure our next heavy-hitting JRPG will have a lead idiot named Chair or some sort of appliance.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: MeshGearFox on September 17, 2010, 11:50:18 PM
WTF is his name Kanji anyway?

If I ever have kids I'm naming them Alphabet and Abjad. Unless one is a girl in which case I'm naming her Eggnog. And if the other one's also a girl I'm naming her Sproot.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Kevadu on September 18, 2010, 12:57:21 AM
There are a lot of puns in Japanese.  Get used to it.

Kanji (the name) is not written with the same characters as kanji (the characters).  It just happens to sound the same.  For that matter neither is Ichigo from Bleach written with the same characters as strawberry.

And just to be clear here, this is not a JRPG/anime thing.  These are real names.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: MeshGearFox on September 18, 2010, 01:03:01 AM
Oh sort of like how Chad from Bleach isn't a http://www.cs.uiowa.edu/~jones/cards/collection/chadhang.jpg ? I guess that makes sense.

Still seems pretty weird to me though.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Farron on September 18, 2010, 05:54:40 PM
Something about a little girl named Eggnog running around makes me giggle. (til she hit's 12, then you frown and wonder)

Japanese are notorious for this, no?
Bleach's main character is named (I like to put a Pimp-twist to it and say it in a Barry White tone) Strawbeeerry.  Venus and Braves had the leads Blood, Vivid and Ariah.  Xenoblade has Shulk and Florung (say that ten times fast).  And I'm pretty sure our next heavy-hitting JRPG will have a lead idiot named Chair or some sort of appliance.

I don't want to sound rude, so don't take it personal but Ichigo (苺) is not only strawberry but in the case of the main characters, while it does sound the same as strawberry it has different meaning as it is written with different kanji (一護) the first means ONE the other means PROTECT, SAFEGUARD, so, the one who protects.

I'm not trying to be bitching about it, but even though it may sound weird for us (the average non japanese speaker, or even a begginer) it usually has more then meets the eye, or in this case, the ear :)

Especially those mangakas (creators, writers, etc) they try to give the character a name that appeals to the idea they have. Another fine example is the main character from Death note, Yagami Light, especially his last name, and they mention it A LOT in the anime. 夜神 the first kanji, means NIGHT and the means GOD. You put them together and you have a badass name or at least a badass meaning for your name.

Even regular people sometimes have names like this, they just change the reading of the kanjis to something more usual a thing that in manga, anime etc you don't have to, or sometimes don't even want to, because you want the fans to make note of it.

This have happened to me quite sometimes, but as my vocabulary of japanese grew you see those nuances and it all makes sense.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Tomara on September 19, 2010, 05:31:33 AM
Something about a little girl named Eggnog running around makes me giggle. (til she hit's 12, then you frown and wonder)

Japanese are notorious for this, no?
Bleach's main character is named (I like to put a Pimp-twist to it and say it in a Barry White tone) Strawbeeerry.

Only is you ignore the kanji. And hey, this isn't unique. It happens in RL too. It's always weird seeing myself on the ingredients lists of exotic candy date flavored candy. I happen to like dates :(

Quote
Venus and Braves had the leads Blood, Vivid and Ariah.  Xenoblade has Shulk and Florung (say that ten times fast).  And I'm pretty sure our next heavy-hitting JRPG will have a lead idiot named Chair or some sort of appliance.

There's also Kharg. Try pronouning that without sounding like you're going to vomit.

Which Tales game was the one with the villain named Spot? I always imagine him as a cute black and white puppy with a red scarf.

Quote
Especially those mangakas (creators, writers, etc) they try to give the character a name that appeals to the idea they have. Another fine example is the main character from Death note, Yagami Light, especially his last name, and they mention it A LOT in the anime. 夜神 the first kanji, means NIGHT and the means GOD. You put them together and you have a badass name or at least a badass meaning for your name.

Also, Yagami = I'm a gay :P

Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: MeshGearFox on September 19, 2010, 11:02:31 AM
Quote
Ichigo

Okay so what do strawberries have to do with protection or the number 1 though!?

Quote
Kharg

Dutch much?

Quote
Yagami

I'm a gay.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Farron on September 19, 2010, 11:12:01 PM
changing subject, I've gone back to play Strange Journey after saying I would drop it. While I still have my complains about the dungeon crawling aspects of it, it is really fun if I don't push the 40 min mark. In short bursts I'm finding this game to be a blast. After spending more than 20 hours on it and reaching half of the game and I keep going back to it I just can't say I don't like it (or else I would have dropped it sooner).

I finally got my hands of DDS 1, and when I played about 30 minutes of it I knew I'd love it but I have to finish a game before starting this one or else my head will explode. I already have 3 SMT games started (Nocturne, Strange Journey, Persona 3 Portable and even Persona 1 on psp but this one I'll hardly get back).
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: hell_snake on September 20, 2010, 05:03:20 AM
changing subject, I've gone back to play Strange Journey after saying I would drop it. While I still have my complains about the dungeon crawling aspects of it, it is really fun if I don't push the 40 min mark. In short bursts I'm finding this game to be a blast. After spending more than 20 hours on it and reaching half of the game and I keep going back to it I just can't say I don't like it (or else I would have dropped it sooner).

I finally got my hands of DDS 1, and when I played about 30 minutes of it I knew I'd love it but I have to finish a game before starting this one or else my head will explode. I already have 3 SMT games started (Nocturne, Strange Journey, Persona 3 Portable and even Persona 1 on psp but this one I'll hardly get back).

I've crossed the 30 hours mark in DDS1. The game keeps on getting better and better, and I'm having a blast!

But if you play MetgaTen game after MegaTen game you'll get SMT'd out.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: kyuusei on September 20, 2010, 11:35:17 AM

I've crossed the 30 hours mark in DDS1. The game keeps on getting better and better, and I'm having a blast!

But if you play MetgaTen game after MegaTen game you'll get SMT'd out.

I find this was only true for me when I played Persona 3 and 4 back to back. I was sick of P4 before the last dungeon. It probably depends on which SMT and how long it is, I enjoyed playing DDS 1, 2 and Nocturne all in succession with some Devil Survivor on the side. :)
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: ValendianKnight on September 20, 2010, 01:21:10 PM

I've crossed the 30 hours mark in DDS1. The game keeps on getting better and better, and I'm having a blast!

But if you play MetgaTen game after MegaTen game you'll get SMT'd out.

I find this was only true for me when I played Persona 3 and 4 back to back. I was sick of P4 before the last dungeon. It probably depends on which SMT and how long it is, I enjoyed playing DDS 1, 2 and Nocturne all in succession with some Devil Survivor on the side. :)

I kind of agree with you here. When I first got P4, I had just done finished P3FES, and it I was not able to finish P4 due to that, even though I think it's an overall better game than P3 was. I have since finished it now, but I put it down for months. I managed to go from Nocturne, DDS1 and 2, and Devil Summoner all in succession no problem though.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Fadedsun on September 20, 2010, 02:29:30 PM
I've been playing nothing but SMT games for the past year. Maybe longer. I've managed to finish the DDS series, Devil Survivor, P3, Devil Summoner and Strange Journey. I'm working on P4 right now, then I'm going to go back to P2:EP, then finally finish up P1 for PSP. I've taken little breaks in between, but I've always had an SMT game going on the side.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: MeshGearFox on September 20, 2010, 04:33:27 PM
I'd say that I agree with you about it being easy to get burnt out on SJ in long play sessions although I usually only have the attention span to play MOST games in 20-40 minute bursts. Although I WAS marathoning SJ in the beginning (12 hours in like the first two or three days. How the FUCK did I do that...)
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Cyril on September 20, 2010, 07:05:56 PM
RE: Names

Many, many English names comes from another language.
For example, my first name and middle names are both very "normal" names that you hear just going anywhere, but they are both Greek words.  What they're going with the names isn't surprising in the least and happens all the time in English with most names.  It only really sounds strange when it's a word from the language you use daily.  "Apple" comes to mind.

As for Strange Journey I actually found it easier to play in long bursts, but only a few times per week.  That way I could finish everything I needed to do without forgetting what I was going to do later, or about the enemy weaknesses/capabilities.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Sagacious-T on September 22, 2010, 09:23:25 AM
I'm starting Persona 3.. FINALLY

Should I play with the original BGMs or  the Burn My Dread - Reincarnation remix BGMs?

The game holds up pretty well at higher resolutions. I gotta say I love the feeling of "playing an anime" with subtitles and all.

http://i56.tinypic.com/33y5qav.jpg
http://i51.tinypic.com/234j0p.jpg
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: badsanta on September 22, 2010, 03:45:45 PM
Ah, Persona 3. Anyone who remembers my...statements, about it a while back, I have to say; I'm very sorry, and a hypocrite. On a mere whim, I retried P3 2 days ago, and I haven't been able to put it down; it is just so engrossing. Does it make my list of favorite RPG's? No, but it's still dang good. And again, anyone who remembers that thread, sorry for saying that P3 is obsolete. It isn't.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Starmongoose on September 22, 2010, 03:48:02 PM
Ah, Persona 3. Anyone who remembers my...statements, about it a while back, I have to say; I'm very sorry, and a hypocrite. On a mere whim, I retried P3 2 days ago, and I haven't been able to put it down; it is just so engrossing. Does it make my list of favorite RPG's? No, but it's still dang good. And again, anyone who remembers that thread, sorry for saying that P3 is obsolete. It isn't.


At least your man enough to admit it.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: CDFN on September 22, 2010, 03:50:12 PM
I'm starting Persona 3.. FINALLY

Should I play with the original BGMs or  the Burn My Dread - Reincarnation remix BGMs?

The game holds up pretty well at higher resolutions. I gotta say I love the feeling of "playing an anime" with subtitles and all.

http://i56.tinypic.com/33y5qav.jpg
http://i51.tinypic.com/234j0p.jpg

Are you playing FES? You should.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Sagacious-T on September 22, 2010, 08:07:07 PM
Yeah its FES. I'm just not sure if I should patch out these remixed BGMs or not..
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: badsanta on September 22, 2010, 08:20:09 PM
Yeah its FES. I'm just not sure if I should patch out these remixed BGMs or not..

FES is what I'm using too, but I have no idea what you're talking about. Patching out remixed BGM's? Is this some kind of emulation technique, or what?
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Sagacious-T on September 22, 2010, 08:36:27 PM
Yeah its FES. I'm just not sure if I should patch out these remixed BGMs or not..

FES is what I'm using too, but I have no idea what you're talking about. Patching out remixed BGM's? Is this some kind of emulation technique, or what?

Someone made a user-patch that replaces the Japanese voices, subtitles everything, and replaces the BGMs with the "Burn My Dread - Reincarnation" OST album MP3s.

Not saying Japanese voices are better are worse mind you
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Farron on September 22, 2010, 09:44:49 PM
If you have the chance to use the japanese voices, do it because they're great ! Oh, and Fuuka's english voice actress will make your ears bleed.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Fadedsun on September 22, 2010, 09:55:51 PM
Yeah its FES. I'm just not sure if I should patch out these remixed BGMs or not..

FES is what I'm using too, but I have no idea what you're talking about. Patching out remixed BGM's? Is this some kind of emulation technique, or what?

Someone made a user-patch that replaces the Japanese voices, subtitles everything, and replaces the BGMs with the "Burn My Dread - Reincarnation" OST album MP3s.

Not saying Japanese voices are better are worse mind you

So, you downloaded the game?
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Sagacious-T on September 22, 2010, 09:59:05 PM
Fuuka's Japanese VA http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mamiko_Noto#Anime_series


The Japanese VA cast is really good from the lineup. Some names I really recognize.

Edit: Damn this is like an anime simulator.

I also keep trying to resist this bitch and the game forces me to follow her >:(

But damn does it look sharp:
http://i51.tinypic.com/34erln9.jpg
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: CDFN on September 23, 2010, 12:41:51 PM
Fuuka's Japanese VA http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mamiko_Noto#Anime_series


The Japanese VA cast is really good from the lineup. Some names I really recognize.

Edit: Damn this is like an anime simulator.

I also keep trying to resist this bitch and the game forces me to follow her >:(

But damn does it look sharp:
http://i51.tinypic.com/34erln9.jpg


How did you do that?
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: badsanta on September 23, 2010, 01:52:23 PM
Fuuka's Japanese VA http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mamiko_Noto#Anime_series


The Japanese VA cast is really good from the lineup. Some names I really recognize.

Edit: Damn this is like an anime simulator.

I also keep trying to resist this bitch and the game forces me to follow her >:(

But damn does it look sharp:
http://i51.tinypic.com/34erln9.jpg


Is there an easy way of doing this, or could I possibly break my game (not literally,) in the process?

Oh, and Fuuka; I'm just several days after getting her, and with the exception of the Chairman's voice (which is even just so-so,) everyone else's voices ranged from decent to quite good, so it's quite disappointing to hear such an insult to the ears. It's like they got people with some talent and possibly even experience for everyone else, and then just got someone off the street for Fuuka, or possibly even just using one of the translation staff, and unfortunately, since everyone else is nice to listen to, I'm not going to turn the voices off. The only reason I can put up with her is because it'd be hard to figure out some of those weaknesses and resistances otherwise, and if it weren't for that, I'd knock her one.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Sagacious-T on September 23, 2010, 05:56:48 PM
If you mean playing the game in high resolution, all you need is a good computer. You can play the disc through your DVD drive and just upscale it, lol.

If you meant the Japanese voices and remixed BGMs, that requires a bit more work.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: hell_snake on September 23, 2010, 07:36:13 PM
If you mean playing the game in high resolution, all you need is a good computer. You can play the disc through your DVD drive and just upscale it, lol.

If you meant the Japanese voices and remixed BGMs, that requires a bit more work.

I remember how I felt disappointed when I got P4 and connected my PS2 to my HD TV. The picture quality was horrendous.

Then I used "that PC program", put it on a 1920x1080 internal resolution with texture filtering and anti-aliasing, connected to my TV using an HDMI cable and VOILA! The game looked absolutely gorgeous! The ability to use the Dualshock 3 controller is awesome too.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Sagacious-T on September 23, 2010, 08:34:14 PM
Oh yeah it's amazing. So fucking sharp. I am stuck using an Xbox 360 controller but it's good enough for games that don't require a good D-Pad
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Eusis on September 23, 2010, 09:32:58 PM
But damn does it look sharp:
http://i51.tinypic.com/34erln9.jpg

Why are you stretching it out?
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Sagacious-T on September 23, 2010, 09:36:26 PM
But damn does it look sharp:
http://i51.tinypic.com/34erln9.jpg

Why are you stretching it out?

Wanted to play Widescreen. Do you think it looks too distorted?
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: kyuusei on September 23, 2010, 09:38:30 PM
Doesn't look all that bad IMO, just makes the text look a little weird and the characters a little stout and chubby, ha.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Kevadu on September 23, 2010, 09:39:08 PM
I can't stand when people stretch a non-widescreen image to fill a widescreen.  It always looks horrible.  How can you go on about texture filtering and anti-aliasing and then butcher the image like that?
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Sagacious-T on September 23, 2010, 09:40:33 PM
Well you guys are probably used to the image in a normal ratio, and I have not tried it normally so keep that in mind as well.

I'll see how much better it looks in 4:3, lol
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Starmongoose on September 23, 2010, 09:40:53 PM
Yeah, Thoren. How do you live with yourself. You fucking monster.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Sagacious-T on September 23, 2010, 09:53:09 PM
^Very slowly.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Dice on September 23, 2010, 10:41:57 PM
I was playing the game on a 20 year old TV.... I had no idea the graphics were that crisp.
What I had was quite literally like this (http://www.iec.ch/online_news/etech/arch_2008/etech_0908/pic_world/hd_comparison.jpg); I think my eye sight went down a few points after travelling through the Tartarus.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: hell_snake on September 23, 2010, 10:58:24 PM
I can't stand when people stretch a non-widescreen image to fill a widescreen.  It always looks horrible.  How can you go on about texture filtering and anti-aliasing and then butcher the image like that?


I like my Yukiko a little bit chubbier. I tell you man you're missing out...

Dat azz!
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Sagacious-T on September 23, 2010, 11:22:10 PM
Here's the game at 6400x4800 Internal Resolution (http://i54.tinypic.com/90rbfc.jpg)

http://i56.tinypic.com/14kkswl.png


(And you guys were right it looks so much better now with the right aspect ratio)

(And no I can't play with it at that resolution at all, lol it's only a minimal upgrade from a much lower resolution)
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: CDFN on September 24, 2010, 04:28:05 AM
I didn't realize the game could look so good through PC. I remember it looked like crap on my HD tv and I had to go back to playing it on my normal tv, I know it's not the same thing but I wasn't expecting it to hold up so well, looks nice.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: badsanta on September 24, 2010, 09:15:32 AM
Yeah, it seems nice, but I'd imagine you'd have to have a computer with pretty good specs for that, and use a certain setup for the emulator you're using. How good would a computer have to be to do what you're doing?
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Fadedsun on September 24, 2010, 09:25:55 AM
The same thing happened to me with P4. I was playing it on this old CRT TV that didn't show colors appropriately. One of my roommates moved out and left his old Sony LCD TV, so I swiped it. When I popped in P4 it was like I was playing a different game. The graphics were sharper and the colors were more vibrant.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Kevadu on September 24, 2010, 12:04:20 PM
I didn't realize the game could look so good through PC. I remember it looked like crap on my HD tv and I had to go back to playing it on my normal tv, I know it's not the same thing but I wasn't expecting it to hold up so well, looks nice.

I played P4 on an HDTV through my PS3 and I thought it looked great.  The PS3 does some upscaling but not a ton.

How were you connecting the PS2?  If you were using the old composite cable I think that can have a bigger effect on image quality than not upscaling it does.  Composite is crap.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Sagacious-T on September 24, 2010, 12:57:41 PM
Yeah, it seems nice, but I'd imagine you'd have to have a computer with pretty good specs for that, and use a certain setup for the emulator you're using. How good would a computer have to be to do what you're doing?

It depends on the game and all too.  My PC was built 3 years ago, I just upgraded the video card with a newer budget card recently for about $140. 4 gigs of Ram, Core 2 Duo 3GHz processor, and a recent-ish video card will get it running smoothly.

Here are some random examples:
http://i55.tinypic.com/5lql4y.jpg
http://i56.tinypic.com/eakubs.jpg


I've gotten further in Persona 3. I'm dividing up my playtime between three RPGs right now so it'll be a slow, slow playthrough. The Stagger-chain effect you can get is pretty cool, I just hope it gets a bit more fast paced later.

I was NOT expecting the game to be a "shifting dungeon crawler" at all. I was expecting more of an adventure and all that. Hopefully there's more action outside of Tartarus later.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: badsanta on September 24, 2010, 01:09:52 PM
Yeah, it seems nice, but I'd imagine you'd have to have a computer with pretty good specs for that, and use a certain setup for the emulator you're using. How good would a computer have to be to do what you're doing?

It depends on the game and all too.  My PC was built 3 years ago, I just upgraded the video card with a newer budget card recently for about $140. 4 gigs of Ram, Core 2 Duo 3GHz processor, and a recent-ish video card will get it running smoothly.

Here are some random examples:
http://i55.tinypic.com/5lql4y.jpg
http://i56.tinypic.com/eakubs.jpg


I've gotten further in Persona 3. I'm dividing up my playtime between three RPGs right now so it'll be a slow, slow playthrough. The Stagger-chain effect you can get is pretty cool, I just hope it gets a bit more fast paced later.

I was NOT expecting the game to be a "shifting dungeon crawler" at all. I was expecting more of an adventure and all that. Hopefully there's more action outside of Tartarus later.

Hate to burst your bubble, but I'm 18 hours in (and this is a retry, so I've played it partway before,) and I can say that this game likes to take it slow and easy, at least at first. The bulk of the game is managing your schedule; forming those social links while roaming through Tatarus. The plot's like that too, taking a backseat to the characters, and having them drive the story, though if I remember correctly, the plot does eventually get more involved. One last thing, in case you haven't figured this out; the big events with a few occasional exceptions are the full moons. That's where all the big events happen the majority of the time, though of course, there is important stuff going on outside of those.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: hell_snake on September 24, 2010, 01:27:21 PM
Thoren, did you play P4 yet?
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Sagacious-T on September 24, 2010, 01:36:08 PM
Thoren, did you play P4 yet?

Not yet I am planning on finishing P3:FES first.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: hell_snake on September 24, 2010, 02:46:26 PM
Thoren, did you play P4 yet?

Not yet I am planning on finishing P3:FES first.

I see. Well in P4 you go to a different dungeon for each story arc.

I bet you want to skip P3 now after learning that fact.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: badsanta on September 24, 2010, 03:15:49 PM
Thoren, did you play P4 yet?

Not yet I am planning on finishing P3:FES first.

I see. Well in P4 you go to a different dungeon for each story arc.

I bet you want to skip P3 now after learning that fact.

They're still random.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: CDFN on September 24, 2010, 03:50:26 PM
I didn't realize the game could look so good through PC. I remember it looked like crap on my HD tv and I had to go back to playing it on my normal tv, I know it's not the same thing but I wasn't expecting it to hold up so well, looks nice.

I played P4 on an HDTV through my PS3 and I thought it looked great.  The PS3 does some upscaling but not a ton.

How were you connecting the PS2?  If you were using the old composite cable I think that can have a bigger effect on image quality than not upscaling it does.  Composite is crap.

I was using a PS2 but not composite.

As for P3, there are other (short) dungeons for some bosses outside of tartarus. You wont regret playing it, believe me.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: kyuusei on September 24, 2010, 03:58:18 PM
I see. Well in P4 you go to a different dungeon for each story arc.

I bet you want to skip P3 now after learning that fact.

They're still random.

Aren't some of the floors fixed, and some random? Either way, there's far less random floors in P4 than the ..very many floors of Tartarus.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Sagacious-T on September 24, 2010, 04:04:06 PM
I dont mind the constant dungeon setup, it reminds me of older RPGs like Azure Dreams. I am a more fan of the static dungeons in general though.

I guess a Roguelike-like RPG without being a Roguelike? shit.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: kyuusei on October 15, 2010, 12:05:38 AM
Has ANYONE played SMT if....? I'm thinking of buying it off someone.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Starmongoose on October 15, 2010, 12:21:55 AM
Has ANYONE played SMT if....? I'm thinking of buying it off someone.

I havn't, let us know how it is if you go through with it? :)
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: badsanta on October 15, 2010, 12:26:18 AM
Has ANYONE played SMT if....? I'm thinking of buying it off someone.

Course not; import-only and not even a fan patch. The only one I can think of that might have played it (going purely off distant memory) is Neal/Dincrest. Otherwise, you might have to look elsewhere for the answer to your question.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: kyuusei on October 15, 2010, 12:42:59 AM
Has ANYONE played SMT if....? I'm thinking of buying it off someone.

I havn't, let us know how it is if you go through with it? :)

This thread will definitely be hearing from me. ;)

Course not; import-only and not even a fan patch. The only one I can think of that might have played it (going purely off distant memory) is Neal/Dincrest. Otherwise, you might have to look elsewhere for the answer to your question.

Import is not an issue. It is the PSX version. I have a modded PSOne and a Japanese PS2.

Neal was my next step, was hoping to get some more feedback by asking this thread. ;)
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: badsanta on October 15, 2010, 01:48:48 AM
Has ANYONE played SMT if....? I'm thinking of buying it off someone.

I havn't, let us know how it is if you go through with it? :)

This thread will definitely be hearing from me. ;)

Course not; import-only and not even a fan patch. The only one I can think of that might have played it (going purely off distant memory) is Neal/Dincrest. Otherwise, you might have to look elsewhere for the answer to your question.

Import is not an issue. It is the PSX version. I have a modded PSOne and a Japanese PS2.

Neal was my next step, was hoping to get some more feedback by asking this thread. ;)

Okay, importing isn't an issue, but I was thinking more along the lines of the language barrier.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: xXMelancholiaXx on October 15, 2010, 01:51:10 AM
Has ANYONE played SMT if....? I'm thinking of buying it off someone.
I bought it a little while ago off of Ebay. As far as playing it goes this might help (http://lparchive.org/LetsPlay/SMTIf/Update%201/index.html).
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: kyuusei on October 15, 2010, 02:14:04 AM
I've played plenty of imports. It doesn't bother me. My Japanese has never been great, but it used to be better than it is now -  especially since I no longer study it. Menus I can get around. Story, I find a translation.. or pick up bits here and there.

I bought it a little while ago off of Ebay. As far as playing it goes this might help (http://lparchive.org/LetsPlay/SMTIf/Update%201/index.html).

That is quite handy. Bookmarking, thanks :)
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: pseudonym on October 15, 2010, 10:54:32 AM
Quote

I see. Well in P4 you go to a different dungeon for each story arc.

I bet you want to skip P3 now after learning that fact.

The dungeons in P4 are similar except with a different "theme." After the third dungeon in P4 I started getting tired of it. Matter of fact, I stopped playing altogether and looked up the ending and who the killer was. Between the dungeons and social links it started getting boring.

I think a few social links is okay, but I think having more than a few makes it tedious and unnecessary. After a while it starts to lose the fun factor.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Starmongoose on October 15, 2010, 11:15:53 AM
You gave up after the third dungeon? What's that...like...the sauna?

Ah, well. Can't please everyone, I found P4 far from boring though, and I loved the social links. Except maybe the Strength and Sun ones.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: kyuusei on October 15, 2010, 11:36:13 AM
I forget which ones Strength and Sun were. Chie and Teddie? My favorite were the Dojima links, though.

I hated the dungeon layouts though. Long hallways with random rooms off to the side = boring. My favorite was the video game dungeon though.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Starmongoose on October 15, 2010, 11:48:57 AM
Nah, the Strength one was your choice of the two sports guys. I forget their names, Basketball guy (more interesting of the two) and soccer guy.

The Sun was the either the drama club or the music club. I liked the shy girl in the music club better than the angsty girl in the drama club.

Chie was the Chariot S.link I think, and Teddie was the Star.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: kyuusei on October 15, 2010, 12:13:57 PM
I chose the soccer guy and angsty drama girl. Fail. I often forget it's not like P3 where you get the same characters no matter what club you choose.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: pseudonym on October 16, 2010, 02:11:43 AM
You gave up after the third dungeon? What's that...like...the sauna?

Ah, well. Can't please everyone, I found P4 far from boring though, and I loved the social links. Except maybe the Strength and Sun ones.

I went through the story up right before the fourth dungeon.

I do like the story and some social links. I just feel like the pacing, some social links (less is more), and the dungeons keep me from wanting to continue on.....at least for now. I may end up finishing it at a later time.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Cyril on October 16, 2010, 02:20:25 AM
I went through the story up right before the fourth dungeon.

I do like the story and some social links. I just feel like the pacing, some social links (less is more), and the dungeons keep me from wanting to continue on.....at least for now. I may end up finishing it at a later time.

I can relate, to an extent.  After a while I start thinking of social links less as "spending time with friends" (as I did my very first time through P3) and think of them more as tools to further my means and strength.  Then I start planning out the order of who I visit and whatnot.  If my MC was a real person, he would be incredibly twisted.

That said, Dojima's SL was easily the highlight of P4 for me.  I also ended up liking Kanji a lot more during his SL than any time during the main game.

On the other hand, I actually found this somewhat cured in P3P.  The mShe has probably 75% of her social links with story-related characters and very few with just the average classmate. The new Moon link is great, and "Fortune" was somewhat twisted, but I loved it anyway.  But, on the other hand, the Female SLs (Mitsuru, Yukari, and especially Fuuka) were absolutely butchered and their original impact lost.  Fuuka's MShe SL was probably the worst they've made so far.  The one classmate that I feel actually got an improvement from MShe was the Emperor, who I came to respect a good deal more.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: kyuusei on October 16, 2010, 03:28:25 PM
So I caved and bought if... . $30 can't go wrong, not like I can get onto the JPSN anyways. This is gonna be interesting. :D
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Farron on October 16, 2010, 10:36:03 PM
With me ther ewere only a few SL I didn't enjoy. Interesting is that some mentioned the drama club girl as their favorite, for me she in the beginning was one of the most boring for me, but she does get a lot better halfway through.
I think my favorite were, first the nurse, the way she's always teasing you and all and second Rise, she's just so cute and trying to get off of showbiz and getting to a normal life. I found it incredibly interesting because japanese people give a lot of attention to those idols, even younger, not that famous, as if every one of them counts, so it seems like they put a character that felt like the most improbable to be put in a game and yet she was wonderful.

As the dungeons, my favorite was the one when
spoiler
Quote
Nanako gets kidnapped

The song "Heaven" which keeps playing is so beautiful and sad that I could not wait to see what happened next.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Starmongoose on October 16, 2010, 10:40:28 PM
With me ther ewere only a few SL I didn't enjoy. Interesting is that some mentioned the drama club girl as their favorite, for me she in the beginning was one of the most boring for me, but she does get a lot better halfway through.
I think my favorite were, first the nurse, the way she's always teasing you and all and second Rise, she's just so cute and trying to get off of showbiz and getting to a normal life. I found it incredibly interesting because japanese people give a lot of attention to those idols, even younger, not that famous, as if every one of them counts, so it seems like they put a character that felt like the most improbable to be put in a game and yet she was wonderful.

As the dungeons, my favorite was the one when
spoiler
Quote
Nanako gets kidnapped

The song "Heaven" which keeps playing is so beautiful and sad that I could not wait to see what happened next.

I actually said angsty girl and soccer boy were my least favourite ones.

My favourite ones were Death and Hierophant

Quote
Death actually got me pretty teary-eyed. I really connected with that one because I knew how Hisano felt, when my grandpa was really ill towards the end, it was tearing the whole family apart watching him slowly lose himself more and more. I remember just wishing he would die, and leave us alone. Then when it actually happened, I felt like I had in someway, attributed to his death.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Gen Eric Gui on October 17, 2010, 01:14:46 AM
Quote
The song "Heaven" which keeps playing is so beautiful and sad that I could not wait to see what happened next.

I

Fucking

Hated

That

Song.

So.  Much.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: MeshGearFox on October 17, 2010, 09:45:59 AM
Bryan adams does suck, yeah.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Yoda on October 20, 2010, 02:55:45 PM
I really have no idea where to begin w/ this series. Just saw this thread and will read it all. Hopefully that will help explain the damn difference between summoner, digital saga, e-t-fucking-c.


Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Yoda on October 20, 2010, 03:58:42 PM
...but there's no way in hell I'm reading 72 pages of this. Any kind soul want to give me a good breakdown? There seem to be a great deal of similarities between all SMT games.

I'm working my way through Strange Journey and while fun there are certain things keeping me from going all out. Conversing w/ the demons to be mostly guesswork as they seem to respond randomly to what you pick.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: CDFN on October 20, 2010, 04:10:11 PM
Strange journey isn't the best way to get started with the franchise man. What systems do you own besides the DS? If you like SRPGs try devil survivor, it's great.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Yoda on October 20, 2010, 04:26:21 PM
Yeah I know it's probably not the best start, but I got it for cheap and it looked cool based on a review.

I have DS, PSP, PS2.


Summoner 2 looks great, but how does that compare to Digital Devil Saga?
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Starmongoose on October 20, 2010, 04:41:33 PM
Okay.


The main series (1, 2, Nocturne ,Strange Journey). You control the protagonist, he's really the only human member that will ever be in your team. The rest of your team will be filled up with demons you have either coerced to join your side, or fused with another demon. The landscapes are usually pretty devoid of life and full of demons. The atmosphere is very oppressive and the storyline is heavily influenced by various religious and philosophical ideals. They are probably the toughest of all the games. Battles are played using a press turn system, where exploiting your enemies elemental weakness earns your party an extra turn to attack. There are multiple endings based on your alignment, Law, Neutral or Chaos.


Digital Devil Saga: This is a two part story. It has nothing to do with the main series, besides sharing things like spell names, demons you fight, and underlying themes. Battles are more traditional, as you have 5 permanent party members (3 allowed in a battle). Each character has an element and a weakness, ability levels are gained by eating your enemies. (As you are part-demon in the game). I don't want to say much about the story, only that it is amazingly well written and dark.

Persona: You play the role oh high-schoolers who are going through something extraordinary.  Persona are facets of someones personality given shape and form, usually representative of their hidden feelings. The main character in 3 + 4 is the only member who can switch between persona at will, (1 and 2 let all members change), Persona's are fused, leveled, bought (with tarot cards) at a place called the Velvet Room. Unlike the other games, Persona 3 and 4 are also part sim, where you go to school during the day and fight at night, though the day isn't wasted as the people you meet, and the strength of your relationship with them (Representative by the Major Arcana in tarot) decides the strength of your persona's.

Devil Survivor: Is an SRPG. You are trapped in Tokyo by the government and you only have 7 days to find a way out. It has all the staples of SMT including the multiple endings. Time matters, so you have to pick and choose your battles, and who you talk to before the timer runs out. It's grid-based, though when you attack, you are taken to a more tradition RPG battle screen.

Devil Summoner: I have no idea. It's an action RPG. That's about all I know.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Yoda on October 20, 2010, 05:16:32 PM
You are a mensch, Thank you very much. I appreciate the thoughts. A huge franchise like that can be overwhelming for a dude like me who's been out of the RPG game for the better part of 10 years.

I'm going to mull all this over then head on up to amazon.

Digital Devil Saga sounds great and I will probably start there. Summoner just looks so fucking sweet though.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: CDFN on October 20, 2010, 06:01:46 PM
Digital devil saga > Devil summoner

DS is great but it's the weakest link imo.

The DDS games or Persona 3 FES would be a good start. Nocturne is a bit hard but it's a fucking masterpiece. Persona 4 is my favorite game ever so yeah, it's great.

Maybe you could do it like this:

Persona 3 FES
DDS1 & DDS2
Persona 4
Nocturne

Playing both personas back to back would be a bit much so this would allow you to mix it up and save the hardest game for last.
After playing all these masterpieces you coud check out the devil summoner games.

Don't forget Devil survivor, it's fantastic.

If you like P3&4 you could check out Persona 1 on the PSP, I'm not a big fan of the game myself but you might like it more, who knows?
The PSP also has persona 3 portable but since you own a PS2 you should go with FES, imo.

Let's see, that should take about... 400 hours, probably more.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: xXMelancholiaXx on October 20, 2010, 06:11:28 PM
If you like P3&4 you could check out Persona 1 on the PSP, I'm not a big fan of the game myself but you might like it more, who knows?
The PSP also has persona 3 portable but since you own a PS2 you should go with FES, imo.
Don't forget about Persona 2!
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: CDFN on October 20, 2010, 06:14:13 PM
If you like P3&4 you could check out Persona 1 on the PSP, I'm not a big fan of the game myself but you might like it more, who knows?
The PSP also has persona 3 portable but since you own a PS2 you should go with FES, imo.
Don't forget about Persona 2!

I forgot you can play PSone games on the PS2 lol.

OK, make that 500 hours.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: MeshGearFox on October 20, 2010, 07:02:37 PM
Persona 1 was the only Persona game I liked enough to finish.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Fadedsun on October 20, 2010, 08:59:43 PM
Persona 1 was the only Persona game I liked enough to finish.

Really? It's the one I'm having the hardest time finishing. Mostly due to time constraints, though. I lost interest when other games I wanted to play came out. I'll get back to it because I really do like it a lot.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Farron on October 20, 2010, 09:17:10 PM
The encounter rate in P1 is overkill and the battle take way too long for a rate this high. Sure Strange Journey is high by today's standards or even Dragon Quest but at least in those most battles are over in a flash, plus you can even use an automated battle. Sadly enough there are some that say the story in P1 isn't that great either, unlike P2 which in less then 30 min in is already interesting and bu the end it only gets better.

I'd go with CDFN suggestion and start with Persona 3. But hey, maybe you could play it on the PSP if you have trouble finding it not to mention that you can control your party on the PSP unlike the PS2 version and that can save a lot of frustration.

I have yet to play DDS myself, I got DDS1 but I'm not having much time to play it, so I'm putting it on hold. Hell, I've waited more than 5 years to find out about it, another months won't hurt.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: kyuusei on October 20, 2010, 09:20:14 PM
Just in case you wanted yet another opinion:

Persona 3 and 4 are what got pretty much everyone into SMT I think. To me they're the easiest to get into and fighting-wise (though a couple of 4s bosses made me cuss. :P) Much like CDFN said, playing P3 and 4 back to back burnt me out. Play one, go to another SMT game and... maybe go back to the other if you really enjoyed the first one.

Devil Summoner 1 & 2 are action RPGs, unlike all the others they're not a 'modern' setting. They're.. I dunno, some other period in Japan. They look like a LOT of fun though and I wanna play them. That's all I know.

Digital Devil Saga 1 & 2 are my favorite. But you HAVE to play them both to get the whole experience. 1 is pretty much the setup, 2 is where all the juicy stuff is. Gameplay is great. Story, despite getting a bit weird at the end, is awesome.

Nocturne is my uh, other favorite. It has the same battle engine as DDS 1 & 2 but came first. There's little dialogue but still manages a great story, I think. There is more to explore than in the DDS games though, so if you're into that, you're golden.

Persona 2, I STILL haven't beaten it, but it's supposed to be awesome. Downside: It's EXPENSIVE on eBay.

I have P1 for the PSP, but I haven't begun, so I can't comment on that either.

Like others said, Strange Journey is a terrible place to start. Good game, but if it gets frustrating quickly... well, you'll get the hang of strategizing in MegaTen eventually. Though Nocturne DID make me love the series first, I beat P3 first, then 4. then DDS 1 & 2..then Nocturne. The order in which I beat them seemed to help. If I had gone through Nocturne first like I almost did, I'd have been fucked.

But get DDS 1 & 2 and Nocturne if nothing else. I can't emphasize that enough.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: xXMelancholiaXx on October 20, 2010, 09:32:12 PM
Persona 2, I STILL haven't beaten it, but it's supposed to be awesome. Downside: It's EXPENSIVE on eBay.
The Persona 2 duology is every bit as good as Persona 3 and 4. Don't let anyone tell you different! XD As far as price goes Eternal Punishment can be anywhere from 70 to 80 dollars I believe. But it's worth it! Innocent Sin is a bit cheaper though. I bought my copy for like 49 dollars.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Starmongoose on October 20, 2010, 09:33:54 PM
Innocent Sin and Eternal Punishment work so well together, it's the best of its kind.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: kyuusei on October 20, 2010, 09:36:33 PM
Persona 2, I STILL haven't beaten it, but it's supposed to be awesome. Downside: It's EXPENSIVE on eBay.
The Persona 2 duology is every bit as good as Persona 3 and 4. Don't let anyone tell you different! XD As far as price goes Eternal Punishment can be anywhere from 70 to 80 dollars I believe. But it's worth it! Innocent Sin is a bit cheaper though. I bought my copy for like 49 dollars.

Actually, I've heard people call it better than P3 and 4, but different strokes for different folks etc. I'm all for finding out.

Yeah true about the price. Luckily I still own P2: EP, definitely gonna grab Innocent Sin at someone point too though.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: xXMelancholiaXx on October 20, 2010, 09:43:09 PM
Persona 2 was definitely a high point in the series in my opinions. In terms of characters, story, music, etc everything comes together. Not to mention it was actually connected to Persona 1. So you had essentially minus a few characters a two worlds of characters merging together to create this world. I don't know about you but I absolutely LOVE cameos from previous characters in the series and Persona 2 delivers in spades.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: MeshGearFox on October 20, 2010, 09:51:25 PM
Quote
The encounter rate in P1 is overkill and the battle take way too long for a rate this high.

This is why you play the original PSX translation, where the encounter rate is fairly *low*.

I got sort of tired of P2: EP roughly around the time you get Nate in your party. Or shortly thereafter? I was in some shopping mall dungeon. I think. I got pissed off by the stupid map completion sidequest going on since it amounted to tedious busy work. Yes, I know it was optional, but still. Also I felt there were balance issues of some sort. Namely in terms of physical attacks being *fairly* useless except in the rare case of you encountering some enemy that was null magic across the board.

I actually got tired of P3 pretty fast. It gets pretty repetitive, especially if you try to do the Velvet Room requests that come up, since way too many of them are just based around random drops. Also I really got the feeling that the choices I made in the SLink bits had no real affect. As I've mentioned before I don't think you could actually LOWER your SLink rating by being a jackass, which sort of bugged me, and, for that matter, I don't really recall any of the SLinks having an affect on eachother. It largely just led to you playing as a sort of sycophant which was really the thematic point but it rendered the gameplay less interesting than it could've been.

The game needed a sort of moral alignment thing only instead of good/neutral/evil, it should've been based on how much you developed a consistent personality and how chameleonic you were. Maybe it had this later. I don't know. I don't think it did.

Actually I think a problem you could level at most of the SMT games is that they reach a certain point where you're just calling off magic spells based on what sort of enemy data you have come up on the streen. "Oh, that enemy's weak to ice. I'll just blast it with agi."

Somehow I recall Nocturne being immune to this, as well as the DDS games. Devil Survivor actually was too, to an extent, because of how party composition worked.

P3 and SMT: SJ and I presume strange journey were really bad about this though.

I actually haven't played P1 since I was a freshman in college so it's probably terrible and I'm just runnin' off good memories. Whatevz. I do recall finding its story sort of incomprehensible.

I never had any idea what the fuck was going on in EP though. EP seems like the kind of game where you have to actually know about Japanese culture to make sense of it. Or not. I seriously remember nothing about it and I was playing it like two years ago.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: xXMelancholiaXx on October 20, 2010, 09:57:16 PM
Quote
The encounter rate in P1 is overkill and the battle take way too long for a rate this high.
This is why you play the original PSX translation, where the encounter rate is fairly *low*.
Don't tell anyone to play that game what's wrong with you! XD The original Playstation localization was horrible! In fact it's pretty much the worst video game localization I've come across ever. The re-release is so much more fateful to the original material including the high encounter rate. :P But it's not as much of a problem if you use "Estoma."
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: kyuusei on October 20, 2010, 10:41:11 PM
You can't lower your S-link but you can reverse and actually break your s-link entirely. I reversed s-links all the time because my MC was a manslut, and I broke Mitsuru's link entirely at one point. (I reset the game, so I don't know how you fix it when it's broken.) Tartarus was repetitive but I liked everything else in P3, it just all wore thin on me by the time I got ten hours into P4.

There is no alignment in P3. That's saved for the mainline SMTs but I'm not sure if Strange Journey also deals with alignment. I liked how Nocturne handled it.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Fadedsun on October 20, 2010, 11:02:19 PM
Persona 2, I STILL haven't beaten it, but it's supposed to be awesome. Downside: It's EXPENSIVE on eBay.
The Persona 2 duology is every bit as good as Persona 3 and 4. Don't let anyone tell you different! XD As far as price goes Eternal Punishment can be anywhere from 70 to 80 dollars I believe. But it's worth it! Innocent Sin is a bit cheaper though. I bought my copy for like 49 dollars.

70 to 80? Wow! You're right. That reprint price faded fast. I'm glad I've kept my copy this whole time. I'll never let it go!

I started playing Innocent Sin a long time ago, but my computer ended up dying and I lost it :(
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Kevadu on October 21, 2010, 12:47:42 PM
Devil Summoner 1 & 2 are action RPGs, unlike all the others they're not a 'modern' setting. They're.. I dunno, some other period in Japan. They look like a LOT of fun though and I wanna play them. That's all I know.

They're set during the Taisho period.  1920s Japan.  It is, in my opinion anyway, a very interesting setting.  Japan was in the middle of undergoing massive changes as there was a big push to rapidly modernize and westernize.  All kinds of technology was just being introduced so you have a big mix of the new (for then, anyway) and traditional.  People on wearing traditional kimono next to people in western business suits on the train, that kind of thing.  I wish more video games would explore settings like that.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: MeshGearFox on October 21, 2010, 06:03:00 PM
devil summoner 2 is my favorite shumiamitassen game after nocturn.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Yoda on October 22, 2010, 11:43:42 AM
Digital devil saga > Devil summoner

DS is great but it's the weakest link imo.

The DDS games or Persona 3 FES would be a good start. Nocturne is a bit hard but it's a fucking masterpiece. Persona 4 is my favorite game ever so yeah, it's great.

Maybe you could do it like this:

Persona 3 FES
DDS1 & DDS2
Persona 4
Nocturne

Playing both personas back to back would be a bit much so this would allow you to mix it up and save the hardest game for last.
After playing all these masterpieces you coud check out the devil summoner games.

Don't forget Devil survivor, it's fantastic.

If you like P3&4 you could check out Persona 1 on the PSP, I'm not a big fan of the game myself but you might like it more, who knows?
The PSP also has persona 3 portable but since you own a PS2 you should go with FES, imo.

Let's see, that should take about... 400 hours, probably more.

I'll probably play Persona 3 on the PSP because it seems to have the best of the game going for it. I'm going to wait on that then since I have Oath in Felghana preordered and I want Persona to drop in price.

Going to start w/ DDS!
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: CDFN on October 22, 2010, 11:58:31 AM
Digital devil saga > Devil summoner

DS is great but it's the weakest link imo.

The DDS games or Persona 3 FES would be a good start. Nocturne is a bit hard but it's a fucking masterpiece. Persona 4 is my favorite game ever so yeah, it's great.

Maybe you could do it like this:

Persona 3 FES
DDS1 & DDS2
Persona 4
Nocturne

Playing both personas back to back would be a bit much so this would allow you to mix it up and save the hardest game for last.
After playing all these masterpieces you coud check out the devil summoner games.

Don't forget Devil survivor, it's fantastic.

If you like P3&4 you could check out Persona 1 on the PSP, I'm not a big fan of the game myself but you might like it more, who knows?
The PSP also has persona 3 portable but since you own a PS2 you should go with FES, imo.

Let's see, that should take about... 400 hours, probably more.

I'll probably play Persona 3 on the PSP because it seems to have the best of the game going for it. I'm going to wait on that then since I have Oath in Felghana preordered and I want Persona to drop in price.

Going to start w/ DDS!

P3P does have some significant improvements over the PS2 version as far as gameplay is concerned but personally I can't recomend it over P3FES. In the PS2 version you see fully animated characters on the screen and have some cool anime cutscenes for the more epic moments, in P3P it's just character portraits and text, I think it takes away from the more powerful moments. Instead of seeing Junpei summoning his persona and throwing a fireball into the villains face, you get a line of text saying "junpei attacked the villain" and some sound in the background. Towards the end there are some really epic moments that lose most of their impact in the PSP version.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Yoda on October 22, 2010, 12:57:33 PM
Yikes. Never mind then! I'll stick w/ PS2 version then.


I'm going to have to get the component cable for sure then. I have the standard AV cable and that looks like a bag of shit on the hdtv.


Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: CDFN on October 22, 2010, 01:11:48 PM
Yikes. Never mind then! I'll stick w/ PS2 version then.


I'm going to have to get the component cable for sure then. I have the standard AV cable and that looks like a bag of shit on the hdtv.




Before anyone else says that I'm misleading you, keep in mind that in P3P you have direct control over your party members like in P4 and a fast travel button also imported from P4. That's why I recommended playing P3 before P4, it's not because of the story but because you might miss these things if you played P4 before P3.
But if you're not used to it you wont miss it when you play P3 and I think it pays off because of the things I mentioned in my previous post.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Starmongoose on October 22, 2010, 01:18:23 PM
I played Persona 4 first, then Persona 3 FES and I enjoyed it just as much, so I think P3 manages to make up for the improvements P4 made with all the little extras P4 didn't have.


I also recommend the PS2 version.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Cyril on October 22, 2010, 03:56:04 PM
I'd actually say P3P is probably a better introduction to the series than FES because of how easy it is due to the direct control.  The game was designed for AI and the enemy difficulty wasn't tweaked to accommodate the change, so having direct control makes the game far too easy, by SMT standards (IE: I was 5-10 levels too low for most of the game on Hard mode and didn't have any problems finishing it when it would have stopped me in my tracks in FES).
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: badsanta on October 22, 2010, 04:20:49 PM
P3...I used to say it was crap, but then I started playing it again, eventually beating both The Journey and The Answer. I can now say after beating it, that the gameplay's decent, but...let's just say if I share what I think of the story, certain people will be very upset. The last time I gave my full opinion of something that I didn't like but everyone else did here at RPGFan, I got assaulted beyond belief, so if you want my full opinion, feel free to PM me.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Farron on October 22, 2010, 04:34:32 PM
Come on man, just share your opinion. This is just the internet one time or another you're gonna get trolled, so who cares ?
Especially when you're not arguing about some pointless thing with someone, you're just expressing your opinion. There's a certain someone here on the forums who goes rampage about anyone who likes FFXIII and I did like the game. I among some other have managed to get hit by his "collateral damage", but do you think I care about this ? NO. I don't give a rat's ass and just move on to the next topic. Simple as that.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: kyuusei on October 22, 2010, 04:40:58 PM
Don't know why it should be such a big deal when opinions differ. Someone's always going to disagree, and sometimes an unpopular opinion is refreshing.

 I'm fine with the story, not GREATEST EVAR but I enjoyed some of the characters and the minor interactions more, like the s-links and events and field trips.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: badsanta on October 22, 2010, 04:56:33 PM
Alright then; it was bad. It was decent at first; passable characterization, intriguing premise; plot moved sort of slowly, but the character's own problems and dealings helped to somewhat fill this void. But as it went along, the plot went along slower and the slower, the characters proved to be more shallow and less interesting, and the social links only helped so much. Then at last, came the final events...

Code: [Select]
Enter 'The Power of Freindship'. How did MC defeat Nix by just holding up that card? How did he fly up to the big eye? Why in the world would all the relationships he made via the Social Links create this card--which should only exist in gameplay and not the plot--which seemingly does everything?
Why--you know, if I went over all of the plotholes, I'd be here all day. The point is, just because someone learned 'The Meaning of Life' doesn't magically grant them to all of that bullcrap that the MC did in the finale,
and on that note, considering all that everyone else went through, you'd think this whole BS would apply to the other party members at least [i]somewhat[/i].
And that's just The Journey; if everyone's 'negative thoughts' or whatever that was, are responsible for creating shadows, [i]why in the world isn't the planet covered with shadows by now?[/i]
And why would Erebus breaking through the seal cause a time-skip? Because it could? Yeesh.

And on top of all that, the plot still ended up being pretty shallow, along with a fair deal of the characters being like the plot as well; shallow and uninteresting. The best one was Junpei, but even he wasn't as good as he could have been. The high point of Persona for me is still the P2 duology, though maybe 4 will prove to be decent enough when I get around to that.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Gen Eric Gui on October 22, 2010, 05:26:34 PM
The reason Minato is able to do those things is because of his power of Persona.  You're also not realizing that a lot of that battle was symbolic, and not literal.

It sounds like you don't like the story largely because you didn't even bother to pay attention to it.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: badsanta on October 22, 2010, 05:40:23 PM
The reason Minato is able to do those things is because of his power of Persona.  You're also not realizing that a lot of that battle was symbolic, and not literal.

It sounds like you don't like the story largely because you didn't even bother to pay attention to it.

Oh, I payed attention. And if it was supposed to be symbolic, then it doesn't show us what actually happened, huh?

And just because Minato has his power of Persona doesn't mean he can do those things unless there are specific reasons, which there weren't. See, I must have a different idea of symbolism, because I did not see a smidgen of symbolism.

And again, I do pay attention; I wouldn't like Persona 2 so much if I didn't pay so much attention to that game's plot, and if I didn't pay attention to P3's plot, and ignored all of the plotholes, maybe I'd enjoy it more. But that isn't the case, and even if that were so, there would still be more general problems, as I've already described.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Kevadu on October 22, 2010, 06:15:06 PM
I agree with badsanta, actually.  P3's plot has a lot of issues, and 'symbolism' does not excuse sloppy writing.  I thought P4's plot was much tighter, and overall I enjoyed that game a lot more.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Mickeymac92 on October 24, 2010, 12:30:54 AM
I love the MegaTen games. I was admittedly pretty put off by Persona 3 at first, but once I tried Persona 2 and especially Shin Megami Tensei 1 for the Super Famicom, I fell in love with them. So far, I've played SMT1, SMT2, Nocturne, Strange Journey, Persona 1-3, and Devil Survivor, and I've loved all of them, though I've never finished any of them. These games are long. I still need to get the Devil Summoner games, then I'm just gonna try to focus on finishing the ones I got.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: kyuusei on October 24, 2010, 12:53:17 AM
I love the MegaTen games. I was admittedly pretty put off by Persona 3 at first, but once I tried Persona 2 and especially Shin Megami Tensei 1 for the Super Famicom, I fell in love with them. So far, I've played SMT1, SMT2, Nocturne, Strange Journey, Persona 1-3, and Devil Survivor, and I've loved all of them, though I've never finished any of them. These games are long. I still need to get the Devil Summoner games, then I'm just gonna try to focus on finishing the ones I got.

Definitely finish at least Nocturne, Strange Journey and P2.

And I'll say the same thing I tell pretty much everyone else around here: Get Digital Devil Saga 1 & 2 if you can. They have Nocturne's battle engine, if that helps any, and a great story.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Mickeymac92 on October 24, 2010, 12:59:55 AM
I love the MegaTen games. I was admittedly pretty put off by Persona 3 at first, but once I tried Persona 2 and especially Shin Megami Tensei 1 for the Super Famicom, I fell in love with them. So far, I've played SMT1, SMT2, Nocturne, Strange Journey, Persona 1-3, and Devil Survivor, and I've loved all of them, though I've never finished any of them. These games are long. I still need to get the Devil Summoner games, then I'm just gonna try to focus on finishing the ones I got.

Definitely finish at least Nocturne, Strange Journey and P2.

And I'll say the same thing I tell pretty much everyone else around here: Get Digital Devil Saga 1 & 2 if you can. They have Nocturne's battle engine, if that helps any, and a great story.

Strange Journey and P2 I'll finish no problem. Nocturne's a different story, but that's because I played it after I played Strange Journey, so it's a rough transition to say the least. Digital Devil Saga, on the other hand, doesn't really interest me. The gameplay doesn't sound interesting, and they took out the Negotiations that I love so much. I'll still probably get them, they're by far the lowest on my wish list as far as SMT goes.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: kyuusei on October 24, 2010, 01:06:56 AM
SJ to Nocturne is probably a weird transition. I went the other way around and it's still kind of weird.

I love demon negotiations. I thought I would miss them and fusion in DDS but I really didn't. There isn't really room for them story-wise because the main characters ARE demons, and the games are kind of short anyway. ie. there's not a lot of optional places (like how Nocturne has the labyrinth) or places you can really go back to. You do come across the usual SMT demons in battle though. Otherwise the gameplay's much the same.

I keep forgetting that I haven't beaten Devil Survivor...
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Cyril on October 24, 2010, 03:35:33 AM
I don't know, if I started with DDS I probably wouldn't have gotten interested in SMT.  I found the story to be ridiculous and Part 2 absolutely butchered the series for me with the plot twist that puts SO3 to shame. The battles weren't particularly interesting for me, either.

I'd recommend SMT2 to start with, personally. Maybe it's just because it's what I started with and I'm loving it over nostalgia, but I feel it's the strongest in the series.

I'd also stay far away from Raidou 1 and immediately skip to Raidou 2.  Raidou 2 does everything Raidou 1 does, but about three times better.  But be warned that the load times are quite bad.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Mickeymac92 on October 24, 2010, 05:04:56 AM
I don't know, if I started with DDS I probably wouldn't have gotten interested in SMT.  I found the story to be ridiculous and Part 2 absolutely butchered the series for me with the plot twist that puts SO3 to shame. The battles weren't particularly interesting for me, either.

I'd recommend SMT2 to start with, personally. Maybe it's just because it's what I started with and I'm loving it over nostalgia, but I feel it's the strongest in the series.

I'd also stay far away from Raidou 1 and immediately skip to Raidou 2.  Raidou 2 does everything Raidou 1 does, but about three times better.  But be warned that the load times are quite bad.

I like your thinking, man. I like it a lot.:) Skipping Raidoh 1 anyways, since it lacks demon negotiations. I'll youtube the first if I need to. And the story of DDS does sound very off-the-wall, not so sure I'd like it.

However, I think SMT2 might be a bit too odd to start with. I tried it at first, but was completely lost. The first game starts out in a more meaningful way, and I think the story in 2 is easier to follow (kinda, sorta) if you play the first game first.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: kyuusei on October 24, 2010, 01:16:28 PM
Skip Raidou 1? I was going to anyway mainly because it's hard to find, but if Raidou 2 is that much better I won't feel so bad. :P

And the near-ending twist of DDS2 is the one thing I don't like. I liked everything else. Would it have turned me off SMT? I don't think so, but I did play a whole lot of them before DDS so it's hard to say.

If I enjoy SMT if... I'll most likely try SMT I and II.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: MeshGearFox on October 24, 2010, 07:02:20 PM
I never really had much of a problem with load times in Raidou 2. IIRC it was loading stuff somewhat constantly in the background so it'd occasionally get these weird little stutters but I don't recall, for instance, the 12 second battle load-in times like I got in Tales of the Abyss.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Fadedsun on October 24, 2010, 08:13:56 PM
I never really had much of a problem with load times in Raidou 2. IIRC it was loading stuff somewhat constantly in the background so it'd occasionally get these weird little stutters but I don't recall, for instance, the 12 second battle load-in times like I got in Tales of the Abyss.

I experience really long load times before a battle. I'm not sure why, either. It doesn't help that I have to go through pre-battle options before the actual battle starts. That's really my only complaint. Otherwise, the game is fantastic.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: xXMelancholiaXx on October 24, 2010, 09:09:15 PM
If I enjoy SMT if... I'll most likely try SMT I and II.
They aren't really related though. Shin Megami Tensei: If... is like Persona 0. Since the canon main character Tamaki Uchida makes several appearances in Megami Ibunroku: Persona, Persona 2: Innocent Sin, and Persona 2 Eternal Punishment. It's stated flat out in Megami Ibunroku: Persona that she transferred from another High School presumably "Karukozaka High School" (the setting of Shin Megami Tensei: If... and doesn't want to talk about what happened there.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: kyuusei on October 24, 2010, 09:12:26 PM
I'm not talking story wise. The gist I get is that they play similarly.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: xXMelancholiaXx on October 24, 2010, 09:18:30 PM
I'm not talking story wise. The gist I get is that they play similarly.
They do (http://www.hardcoregaming101.net/megaten/megaten2.htm).
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: cj_iwakura on October 25, 2010, 01:16:11 AM
Personally(totally not biased as I wrote the Raidou 2 article at HG101 :P), I like Raidou 1's story more. 2 has the better gameplay, of course.


As for the old SMTs: 1 has better story, 2 for better gameplay. Much like Raidou!
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Alisha on October 26, 2010, 07:07:56 PM
thanks to the joys of fan translations im currently playing innocent sin and i gotta say in terms of what goes on in the story this game makes persona 3 and 4 look kinda tame by comparison O_o.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Dincrest on October 26, 2010, 07:19:21 PM
It's no secret that Innocent Sin is my favorite Persona (and MegaTen) game because the story, characters, and writing are just so freaking good.  If it weren't released in 1999, it would have made my 10best of the decade list in lieu of Eternal Punishment. 

The half-assed orphanage scene in Final Fantasy VIII wishes it could be as cool as any ONE of the many flashback scenes in IS where the characters are hanging out at the shrine as children. 
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: xXMelancholiaXx on October 26, 2010, 08:42:14 PM
Persona 2 Innocent Sin announced for the PSP! No you did not read that wrong it's happening!

(http://i.imgur.com/l86vB.jpg)
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Yoda on October 26, 2010, 08:44:11 PM
DDS was supposed to arrive today :(
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Starmongoose on October 26, 2010, 08:44:32 PM
No way!


It...

I mean

...


Oh my god.

Finally!
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: xXMelancholiaXx on October 26, 2010, 08:45:17 PM
No way!


It...

I mean

...


Oh my god.

Finally!
This has to happen! Atlus must localize this!
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Starmongoose on October 26, 2010, 08:47:16 PM
It would be a crime against all that is good if they didn't.

They COULD release this nowadays. Hitler in a game, pft. Show me a game these days that DOESN'T have Hitler in it.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Eusis on October 26, 2010, 08:47:44 PM
This is the only one I'd have ANY DOUBT for, and that's more in case someone's worried about either
Code: [Select]
Hitler or the fact you have to fight a possessed principle.
Otherwise, yes.

Edit: Starmongoose, there are still some companies that are iffy about it, though it seems more relevant when you want to release the game in, say, Germany and have it kept the same there. The other thing I mentioned is more likely to be an issue, but then IS came out around when Columbine happened; it's been 10+ years since and as such I think people will be less touchy there.

... Failing all else, MegaTen's had little trouble dodging any serious controversy.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: kyuusei on October 26, 2010, 08:48:06 PM
Holy shitballs.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: xXMelancholiaXx on October 26, 2010, 08:50:13 PM
This is the only one I'd have ANY DOUBT for, and that's more in case someone's worried about either
Code: [Select]
Hitler or the fact you have to fight a possessed principle.
Otherwise, yes.
This will happen. Just watch. There will be a lot of angry Persona fans if this does not happen there will be a massive insurrection.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Yggdrasil on October 26, 2010, 08:55:08 PM
Persona 2 Innocent Sin announced for the PSP!

I had lost all hope hope of a remake of these games. Atlus, you know how to steal my money, you bastards. I'm kinda worried about the music thought, the remake of the original Persona for the PSP had a really annoying/disappointing soundtrack.

It has their good tracks here and there, but the original score was (and still is) pretty damn good.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Starmongoose on October 26, 2010, 08:57:17 PM
I just want this game so bad, Eusis. :(

This is going to be one painful year.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Farron on October 26, 2010, 09:04:10 PM
When I heard the news of Innocent Sin I JIZZED IN MY PANTS! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VLnWf1sQkjY&ob=av3e)

Guys, the good news about this, not only that this is a great game is that it's Atlus. It's not Namco or Square-Enix, if it's Atlus we can be sure they'll localize. It doesn't have vocie acting,and it will probably be released on PSN so coasts will be low for a localization. I say I'm positive this will be localized!

Oh, and just for the sake of confusion, Innocent Sin is the first one, right ? Then comes Eternal Punishment, right ?
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Starmongoose on October 26, 2010, 09:05:43 PM
Yes, Innocent Sin is the first one.

Though it isn't a prequel.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Eusis on October 26, 2010, 09:06:12 PM
You're wrong (probably) on VA, and even if you weren't they added some in P1's localization anyway. But since it's unlikely to be more than maybe an hour of VA I definitely don't see that being an obstacle.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: xXMelancholiaXx on October 26, 2010, 09:06:18 PM
Oh, and just for the sake of confusion, Innocent Sin is the first one, right ? Then comes Eternal Punishment, right ?
Persona 2 Innocent Sin is Chapter 1 and Persona 2 Eternal Punishment is Chapter 2. It's a duology.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Fadedsun on October 26, 2010, 10:20:16 PM
First, this is the best news I've heard in a long time!! I'm sooooo beyond hyped.

Second, this source states that the OST will not be changed.

http://www.gamingunion.net/news/persona-2-innocent-sin-gets-psp-remake--3139.html
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: cj_iwakura on October 26, 2010, 11:59:29 PM
Hitler is not the most controversial thing about IS by a long shot, it's a certain character's homosexuality.

After Persona 4? Yeah, that's likely no problem.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: insertnamehere on October 27, 2010, 12:14:12 AM
I almost made a new topic about that but saw a new post on this one and figured it was probably already being talked about by now.
part of me was hoping both games would be released as one game, but oh well
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: kyuusei on October 27, 2010, 12:16:08 AM
Hmm, I found a couple more scans and put them up:

http://www.rpgfan.com/news/2010/601.html

I almost made a new topic about that but saw a new post on this one and figured it was probably already being talked about by now.
part of me was hoping both games would be released as one game, but oh well

Eternal Punishment will most likely be coming anyway. Atlus knows. Separate releases, more profit anyway. :P

Also, I love that they're keeping the original music. :)
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: xXMelancholiaXx on October 27, 2010, 12:29:55 AM
Also, I love that they're keeping the original music. :)
With tracks like this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79ha1aYij5I) who would want to change them?
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Mickeymac92 on October 27, 2010, 04:28:54 AM
Hmm, I found a couple more scans and put them up:

http://www.rpgfan.com/news/2010/601.html

I almost made a new topic about that but saw a new post on this one and figured it was probably already being talked about by now.
part of me was hoping both games would be released as one game, but oh well

Eternal Punishment will most likely be coming anyway. Atlus knows. Separate releases, more profit anyway. :P

Also, I love that they're keeping the original music. :)

And unfortunately, I'll be buying both of them. Hopefully they release it in the U.S. this time, but I'd still get it if it weren't.

And yes, keeping original music is very good news.:) I wasn't fond of some of the remixes from the remake of Persona 1 (the soundtrack was still pretty good overall, though).
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Fadedsun on October 27, 2010, 07:42:52 AM
More info courtesy of Neogaf.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=24063718&postcount=189

Also, they planned on doing IS+EP, but apparently it couldn't all fit on one UMD.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Starmongoose on October 27, 2010, 07:55:43 AM
Innocent Sin's story + Eternal Punishment's gameplay. I'm in heaven.


EDIT: Also, I don't think
Quote
Jun's
homosexuality played as big a role in it as Hitler did. The gay thing only comes through after one or two dialog choices and it barely affects any part of the game. It could have been easily edited out. Easily.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: xXMelancholiaXx on October 27, 2010, 08:00:30 AM
Honestly, I hope they don't edit anything. Considering the fact that we didn't get the original I think they owe it to the fans not to cut anything. Not to mention many fans I would imagine have already played it and will know if anything is cut.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Starmongoose on October 27, 2010, 08:01:53 AM
Honestly, I hope they don't edit anything. Considering the fact that we didn't get the original I think they owe it to the fans not to cut anything.

I don't think they will, not at this point.

And I really hope they don't either, I really respect IS for at least having that option.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Lard on October 27, 2010, 12:15:54 PM
First, this is the best news I've heard in a long time!! I'm sooooo beyond hyped.

Second, this source states that the OST will not be changed.

http://www.gamingunion.net/news/persona-2-innocent-sin-gets-psp-remake--3139.html

Man, I hope you're right about that.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Fadedsun on October 27, 2010, 01:07:35 PM
First, this is the best news I've heard in a long time!! I'm sooooo beyond hyped.

Second, this source states that the OST will not be changed.

http://www.gamingunion.net/news/persona-2-innocent-sin-gets-psp-remake--3139.html

Man, I hope you're right about that.

If you look at the other link I posted from Neogaf it confirms it again. I heard that Meguro also said it in an interview. They're offering the option to change between an arranged and the original soundtrack.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: kyuusei on October 27, 2010, 01:08:50 PM
Yeah I mentioned it after seeing it in several places. The interview's on the bottom of the 2nd and 3rd scans, it looks like.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: hell_snake on October 27, 2010, 04:03:21 PM
Just finished DDS 1. Last dungeon and final boss were exhausting to say the least.

Yes, Fallout, Fable and every other game is taking a back seat until I finish the sequel. I tried to stay away from it so i can focus on new games but couldn't.

By the time I'm done with this Persona 2: IS will most likely be close to release. When will I ever have time for anything else?
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Yoda on October 27, 2010, 04:29:05 PM
DDS1 just got here.

Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: xXMelancholiaXx on October 27, 2010, 04:31:56 PM
DDS1 just got here.


Have fun. It's an amazing game. You'll definitely like it.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Yoda on October 27, 2010, 04:42:18 PM
intro movie and everything seems rad (my 1st console SMT game) but the visuals are muddy as hell on my tv.

I need to play around w/ some settings.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: kyuusei on October 27, 2010, 05:21:13 PM
Have you got a component cable? The game looked great on my TV.

Nocturne looked and sounded a tad muddy though.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Yoda on October 27, 2010, 05:27:32 PM
Have you got a component cable? The game looked great on my TV.

Nocturne looked and sounded a tad muddy though.

Not yet. standard video cables. Right now I'm on a 19" 720i tv. I was playing DQ8 on a 42" 1080p tv this weekend. Funny, I thought the more res would make it look shittier.

I set the 19" for 4:3 as well as the PS2 and DDS looks better. For DQ8 on the other tv I had PS2 and DQ both set for 16:9.

These old games rule but having to mess around for each game to get the visuals is a drawback.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Dincrest on October 27, 2010, 05:30:41 PM
If it gets localized, I will be happier than a monkey in a barrel of bananas.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: cj_iwakura on October 27, 2010, 05:58:42 PM
I don't get why Hitler was a problem.

He's a bad guy. How is this different from every WW2 game on the market since ever?
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: hell_snake on October 27, 2010, 06:09:56 PM
intro movie and everything seems rad (my 1st console SMT game) but the visuals are muddy as hell on my tv.

I need to play around w/ some settings.

Play with settings all you want, the game won't look as good as this (click on image for 1920x1080 resolution):-

(http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/6396/gsdx201010280045392.jpg) (http://img229.imageshack.us/img229/5532/gsdx20101028004539.jpg)

(http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/4297/gsdx201010280045062.jpg) (http://img180.imageshack.us/img180/7673/gsdx20101028004506.jpg)

(http://img514.imageshack.us/img514/3709/gsdx201010280044532.jpg) (http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/5040/gsdx20101028004453.jpg)

(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/8711/gsdx201010280044452.jpg) (http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/4775/gsdx20101028004445.jpg)

(http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/4638/gsdx201010280044372.jpg) (http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/7811/gsdx20101028004437.jpg)

(http://img219.imageshack.us/img219/5700/gsdx201010280044232.jpg) (http://img535.imageshack.us/img535/2214/gsdx20101028004423.jpg)
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Lard on October 27, 2010, 06:24:45 PM
Regarding Innocent Sin

http://blog.livedoor.jp/od3/archives/51774996.html

- Coming this Winter
- Supports Media Install
- Soundtrack CD pre-order bonus

- It's a "remake" like Persona 1 with balance and control improvements while based on the original game
- The gameplay systems will be based on Eternal Punishment's refinements instead of just the original Innocent Sin
- Soejima will be doing brand new full body illustrations for the characters, while the art staff will implement new portraits and cut-ins based on his supervision

- When you move around you'll see status details and a minimap now, and there will be various UI improvements, etc
- In battles you'll see the affinity of your demons, as well as character turn orders

- Battle balance and time constrained events will be retuned to make it more user friendly
- Difficulty can be changed on the fly in the menu
- Voices will all be remastered, but not re-recorded

- Brand new opening anime FMV by Satelight
- The original opening FMV is also included
- Arranged and Original BGM can be selected in the config menu
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: kyuusei on October 27, 2010, 06:44:38 PM
Forgot to mention here that I added those things on the front page story.... Last night. Yeah, the 'this winter' thing was really surprising. I bet it'll be Feb. or March, and then spring/summer here if we get it. Which I think we will.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Yoda on October 27, 2010, 06:46:33 PM
intro movie and everything seems rad (my 1st console SMT game) but the visuals are muddy as hell on my tv.

I need to play around w/ some settings.

Play with settings all you want, the game won't look as good as this (click on image for 1920x1080 resolution):-


Thanks buddy!

(http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z70/Chips347/1e7ac786.gif)
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Eusis on October 27, 2010, 06:54:02 PM
Play with settings all you want, the game won't look as good as this (click on image for 1920x1080 resolution):-

Well it'll be properly proportioned at least, unless the TV's one of those shitty ones without a 4:3 mode.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: CDFN on October 27, 2010, 06:58:23 PM
Man, this P2IS remake is a dream come true.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Spoony Mage on October 27, 2010, 07:00:33 PM
Oh hell yes!  The patient waiting has been worth it. 
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Eusis on October 27, 2010, 07:05:16 PM
Nice combination of post/title/avatar there.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: hell_snake on October 27, 2010, 07:12:03 PM
Nice combination of post/title/avatar there.

That's exactly what I thought lol
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Spoony Mage on October 27, 2010, 10:08:02 PM
LoL I didn't even think about that until now.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: kyuusei on October 27, 2010, 10:10:49 PM
LoL I didn't even think about that until now.

Seeing that combination made me wonder if the news made you pee your pants. ;)
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Starmongoose on October 27, 2010, 10:13:48 PM
LoL I didn't even think about that until now.

Seeing that combination made me wonder if the news made you pee your pants. ;)

He can't now 'cause we are all watching him.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Spoony Mage on October 27, 2010, 10:17:35 PM
LoL I didn't even think about that until now.

Seeing that combination made me wonder if the news made you pee your pants. ;)

He can't now 'cause we are all watching him.
Then quit watching me! It'll be you guys fault if my bladder bursts!
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: kyuusei on October 27, 2010, 10:26:06 PM
No... It'll be Atlus'. We're not the ones doing the remake! ;)
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Starmongoose on October 27, 2010, 11:45:18 PM
This thread is so condensed with information about the games, I'm surprised it hasn't become materia.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: xXMelancholiaXx on October 27, 2010, 11:58:32 PM
This thread is so condensed with information about the games, I'm surprised it hasn't become materia.
Are you officially awesome. XD!
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: cj_iwakura on October 28, 2010, 10:51:16 AM
It's in-line image time.

(http://www.famitsu.com/news/201010/images/00035155/s112_mV6R66m7N9EvP3InH1FBBky5jeb2hnv5.jpg)
(http://www.famitsu.com/news/201010/images/00035155/s113_qo6R4kv9SKWFyE2UMv1kwTCRM8xZT9DP.jpg)

(http://www.famitsu.com/news/201010/images/00035155/s204_WDf6gDF6DDlm3TxNAg9U7XCs4PH1zYPq.jpg)
Quote
The enemy's down, let's finish this!

(http://www.famitsu.com/news/201010/images/00035155/s205_OuaVtjP99evPpJ7g96ZqU6btXIUHwqfW.jpg)


And new character art.

(http://www.famitsu.com/news/201010/images/00035155/s116_TEVO3EYuSqAf8yNn3E7JMqyivKLd31Lb.jpg)(http://www.famitsu.com/news/201010/images/00035155/s117_WLJXb4pY9f446ken2TtaXljp9J9JgCgn.jpg)(http://www.famitsu.com/news/201010/images/00035155/s118_FsSSMplPna4QKnFmv2zGlVUi8o21tjAL.jpg)

(http://www.famitsu.com/news/201010/images/00035155/s119_yCiPQ1xvbww5v33R9O73i98PJh5RxO63.jpg)(http://www.famitsu.com/news/201010/images/00035155/s1110_XOp5oiO3EVqFypL64745VRxF97bDKXWe.jpg)(http://www.famitsu.com/news/201010/images/00035155/s1111_GBYT75k3RUNKrygpwmP9nxP99Fqb3Xpa.jpg)
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: xXMelancholiaXx on October 28, 2010, 10:53:05 AM
Wait. They are going to include the one more battle feature and all out attacks in this game?
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Starmongoose on October 28, 2010, 11:12:15 AM
Wait. They are going to include the one more battle feature and all out attacks in this game?

No, it's a combination attack. In 2 you could combine certain attacks from each person to make larger, more powerful moves.

(With a ton of other extras as well)
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: cj_iwakura on October 28, 2010, 11:13:38 AM
They're just making it more Persona 3 style in terms of epicness. No complaints here.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Yggdrasil on October 28, 2010, 12:14:04 PM
PSP ペルソナ2 罪 OPムービー (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gplbskiqs5s)

*sigh* This shit is all over the place. But is not bad... I guess.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: cj_iwakura on October 28, 2010, 12:19:46 PM
The animation is off the walls awesome.

The music... I'll hold off on passing judgment.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Starmongoose on October 28, 2010, 12:26:32 PM
PSP ペルソナ2 罪 OPムービー (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gplbskiqs5s)

*sigh* This shit is all over the place. But is not bad... I guess.

That is very sleek.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: badsanta on October 28, 2010, 12:41:05 PM
That new intro is pretty nice, but does it match up to the old opening?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pr4NvMeHbmc (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pr4NvMeHbmc)

No, I'd have to say that while the new one's pretty decent, it just doesn't match up to the original intro; good thing they're going to have both on there.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: hell_snake on October 28, 2010, 12:42:12 PM
PSP ペルソナ2 罪 OPムービー (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gplbskiqs5s)

*sigh* This shit is all over the place. But is not bad... I guess.

Animation was awesome. Music was kinda off though.

Persona PSP had way better music (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A_sR-LFfZAU)  for the OP.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: CDFN on October 28, 2010, 01:06:46 PM
The music is nothing to write home about but otherwise the new intro is great. I thought he would bring back one of the usual female singers but I guess we have a new voice, Asami Izawa. I'm checking out some of her previous music, most seems to be from anime soundtracks. I wonder if she'll be on persona band's next tour.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Fadedsun on October 28, 2010, 01:07:21 PM
I found nothing wrong with the new intro. I thought it was good. The first 30 seconds was surprising with the guy rapping, but once it actually got into it and the female vocals came in it was much better. I feel the original intro was too long, but both are good.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: CDFN on October 28, 2010, 01:11:47 PM
I found nothing wrong with the new intro. I thought it was good. The first 30 seconds was surprising with the guy rapping, but once it actually got into it and the female vocals came in it was much better. I feel the original intro was too long, but both are good.

Meguro has been using Lotus Juice a lot, it's no surprise at all, I clicked on the link expecting to hear him. Like I said above the surprise is the fact that he hired another female singer. I want Hirata for Persona 5. I wonder what he'll do for the EP remake.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Mickeymac92 on October 28, 2010, 01:56:26 PM
That new intro is pretty nice, but does it match up to the old opening?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pr4NvMeHbmc (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pr4NvMeHbmc)

No, I'd have to say that while the new one's pretty decent, it just doesn't match to the original intro; good thing they're going to have both on there.

The original opening was all kinds of awesome. It set the mood just right and left me wanting to find out what it all meant. I haven't seen the new one, but I'll probably switch it to the old one pretty quick. I doubt they could beat it.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: xXMelancholiaXx on October 28, 2010, 02:57:16 PM
Some more news guys. Persona 2 Innocent Sin is set to be released in Japan this winter (http://www.siliconera.com/2010/10/27/japan-gets-persona-2-innocent-sin-on-psp-this-winter/).
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Fadedsun on October 28, 2010, 02:59:19 PM
Some more news guys. Persona 2 Innocent Sin is set to be released in Japan this winter (http://www.siliconera.com/2010/10/27/japan-gets-persona-2-innocent-sin-on-psp-this-winter/).

That's old news actually :P but thanks anyways.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: kyuusei on October 28, 2010, 03:03:37 PM
Yeah it's in the original scans. The game's 90% complete, apparently.

My guess is still Feb./March in Japan and spring/summer here.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Logick on October 28, 2010, 05:17:08 PM
Innocent Sin was my fav RPG of the PSX era, I'm REALLY looking forward to this.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Dincrest on October 28, 2010, 05:25:55 PM
As with the P1 remake, the original opening was better.  IS for Playstation had perhaps my all time favorite game opening (especially the music) and this new one was ehh in comparison.  The original EP had a kickass opening too.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: kyuusei on October 28, 2010, 05:27:24 PM
Sounds like we'll have the option of the new opening or the original. Or maybe they'll alternate kind of like how in P3: FES we'd see the FES opening then Burn My Dread?
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Fadedsun on October 28, 2010, 09:40:07 PM
As with the P1 remake, the original opening was better.  IS for Playstation had perhaps my all time favorite game opening (especially the music) and this new one was ehh in comparison.  The original EP had a kickass opening too.

Going to have to disagree. There's lots of symbolism in this opening, especially as it shows each character individually. I love the bright colors and the female vocals towards the end. I will agree that EP had an awesome opening, though. Maybe it's just the nostalgia you attached to the original games? I never played the original P1, so I thought the opening to the remake was awesome. And I only played about 10 hours of IS before my laptop crashed and died forever :( So I'm very much looking forward to this.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Lard on October 29, 2010, 01:51:49 AM
Not entirely crazy about the new theme, but that new opening animation is awesome.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: hell_snake on October 29, 2010, 03:03:04 AM
(http://www.famitsu.com/news/201010/images/00035155/s214_SbpqI5fn1W3n8m8yaZlkWI2E55Q7p6vy.jpg)
(http://www.famitsu.com/news/201010/images/00035155/s215_OHHfG2C536bhtFg2GowL1x7h5MnE6rPQ.jpg)


I'm really interested in the arranged soundtrack. A sample would be nice.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: xXMelancholiaXx on October 29, 2010, 03:03:39 AM
As with the P1 remake, the original opening was better.  IS for Playstation had perhaps my all time favorite game opening (especially the music) and this new one was ehh in comparison.  The original EP had a kickass opening too.

Going to have to disagree. There's lots of symbolism in this opening, especially as it shows each character individually. I love the bright colors and the female vocals towards the end. I will agree that EP had an awesome opening, though. Maybe it's just the nostalgia you attached to the original games?
I think so too. Anyway let's compare:

Original Persona opening (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mBoe21629vM)

Persona Re-release opening (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A_sR-LFfZAU) 

Original Persona 2 Innocent Sin opening (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pr4NvMeHbmc)

Persona 2 Innocent Sin Re-release opening (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gkQUnth9vV4)

Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: insertnamehere on October 29, 2010, 03:05:35 AM
it has a spiffy new logo
and that interface makes me think of persona psp
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Mickeymac92 on October 29, 2010, 03:42:37 AM
As with the P1 remake, the original opening was better.  IS for Playstation had perhaps my all time favorite game opening (especially the music) and this new one was ehh in comparison.  The original EP had a kickass opening too.

Going to have to disagree. There's lots of symbolism in this opening, especially as it shows each character individually. I love the bright colors and the female vocals towards the end. I will agree that EP had an awesome opening, though. Maybe it's just the nostalgia you attached to the original games?
I think so too. Anyway let's compare:

Original Persona opening (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mBoe21629vM)

Persona Re-release opening (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A_sR-LFfZAU)  

Original Persona 2 Innocent Sin opening (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pr4NvMeHbmc)

Persona 2 Innocent Sin Re-release opening (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gkQUnth9vV4)



I like the poem at the beginning of the original Persona's original theme (first time I had seen it) but then there's nothing else that goes on, just a slow piano tune and some scenery that has little relevence until the part at the very end. The re-release at least gave it a good song, had more going on, and offered bits from the story to keep things interesting yet followable. It still could've been better, but at least it's good enough.

Persona 2's original intro: Again, I liked the poem, and at least with this one I understood what it had to do with the rest of the story. The piano tune was also nice since it went with the poem and it lead into the second song very well, and of course, I liked both songs. When things got more heavy after the poem, at least most of it was followable and it showed scenes that would become relevent to the plot later on. You know, it just made sense.
The re-release, on the otherhand, was a clusterfuck: I couldn't keep up with the what they were showing, none of it made any sense except for when they went through a runthrough of everyone's personas, nor do I have any desire to run through it again and again until it does make sense, and the music just didn't seem to meld with the action very well.

Long story Short: I'm switching to the original intro if I can.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Lard on October 29, 2010, 04:23:50 AM
Yeah, I definitely prefer the original music for P2.

It's a really great new visual though.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Spoony Mage on October 29, 2010, 08:02:14 AM
I have nothing against the new IS opening, personally.  Maybe it's because I never did get around to playing much of IS compared to EP, but the original opening never stuck with me.  :/
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: xXMelancholiaXx on October 29, 2010, 08:53:13 AM
I think the minor improvements they are making to the PSP version will definitely make it worth it in the end. As far as the opening is concerned I think the original version captures the ambiance of Persona a lot better then the new one.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Zadok83 on October 31, 2010, 04:12:33 AM
Ok, I know you guys are gonna rip my head off for this, but I haven't played a single SMT game yet.  I've been playing RPGs for at least 20 yrs now (I'm 27) and I haven't even gotten around to playing one of the most well received series.  I live in Arkansas and the only SMT game I've ever seen in GameStop was Persona 3 and it was going for $70 (I was a broke college student then).  I've seen several on Amazon, but I don't know where to start.

Anyway, which game in the SMT series should I get my hands on first?
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Mickeymac92 on October 31, 2010, 05:19:00 AM
Ok, I know you guys are gonna rip my head off for this, but I haven't played a single SMT game yet.  I've been playing RPGs for at least 20 yrs now (I'm 27) and I haven't even gotten around to playing one of the most well received series.  I live in Arkansas and the only SMT game I've ever seen in GameStop was Persona 3 and it was going for $70 (I was a broke college student then).  I've seen several on Amazon, but I don't know where to start.

Anyway, which game in the SMT series should I get my hands on first?

I find it's usually best to start with a Main Series game, such as Nocturne or Strange Journey. I know a lot of people got into the series with Persona 3, but it's so different from the rest of the series with a completely different focus, I just don't see how they could've other than it got them familiar with the brand.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: xXMelancholiaXx on October 31, 2010, 05:26:08 AM
Anyway, which game in the SMT series should I get my hands on first?
Honestly it really doesn't matter since they are all great. But I suppose I'd recommend Persona 3 FES. It's hard but not too hard.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: hell_snake on October 31, 2010, 05:45:56 AM
Anyway, which game in the SMT series should I get my hands on first?

Nocturne, because it's the 3rd entry in the main series. All of 'em SMT games are good, but I agree with Mickey. You should start with a main entry.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: xXMelancholiaXx on October 31, 2010, 05:55:27 AM
Anyway, which game in the SMT series should I get my hands on first?

Nocturne, because it's the 3rd entry in the main series. All of 'em SMT games are good, but I agree with Mickey. You should start with a main entry.
Well I mean that's a fine choice too. I really doesn't matter. The only reason I'm hesitant to recommend Nocturne is because it can be Nintendo Hard (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/NintendoHard) at various points. But then again they all can. But Nocturne gave me the most trouble.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: hell_snake on October 31, 2010, 06:19:26 AM
Well I mean that's a fine choice too. I really doesn't matter. The only reason I'm hesitant to recommend Nocturne is because it can be Nintendo Hard (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/NintendoHard) at various points. But then again they all can. But Nocturne gave me the most trouble.

He needs to learn how awesome MegaTen is... the hard way.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: Cyril on October 31, 2010, 06:32:25 AM
Well I mean that's a fine choice too. I really doesn't matter. The only reason I'm hesitant to recommend Nocturne is because it can be Nintendo Hard (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/NintendoHard) at various points. But then again they all can. But Nocturne gave me the most trouble.

I think I'm the only person on the planet who thought Nocturne was too easy on normal mode.  I didn't even grind.

Now Hard mode can be ridiculous.
Title: Re: Megami Tensei Topic
Post by: xXMelancholiaXx on October 31, 2010, 06:44:21 AM
Well I mean that's a fine choice too. I really doesn't matter. The only reason I'm hesitant to recommend Nocturne is because it can be Nintendo Hard (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/NintendoHard) at various points. But then again they all can. But Nocturne gave me the most trouble.
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