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Media => Single-Player RPGs => Topic started by: Summoner Yuna on March 30, 2010, 12:37:35 PM

Title: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Summoner Yuna on March 30, 2010, 12:37:35 PM
I saw that we have a Shin Megami Tensei general topic so I thought it would be cool to have one for Suikoden.

What are people's opinions on the series as a whole? Which is your favorite Suikoden? What do you like/dislike the most about the series?

Personally, I think Suikoden is one of the best RPG series. I discovered it totally by accident (like I usually do with video games, lol).

I have played Suikoden I-III, and I must say I loved all of them. Suikoden I was great fun, but the story was a little light (although very expansive). Suikoden II and III are great in the story department and I would have never expected what happened with a certain recurring character, which shall go unnamed for spoiler reasons, in the third game. It really caught me off base but I guess it was actually fitting within the lore of Suikoden and it all added up.

Perhaps I enjoyed the gameplay of Suikoden II more in the sense that it was more "traditional". But Suikoden III's gameplay was pretty exciting as well.

It's interesting that the first three games were direct sequels and the last two were prequels. I would love to see a Suikoden VI set after the Second Flame Champion Wars (aka Suiko III) and perhaps see more of characters like Geddoe, Jacques, Viktor, Flik, Pesmerga, Sheena, etc. just to name a few. In any case, I just really hope there's a Suikoden VI.

I'm really not sure if I should play Suikoden Tactics and Suikoden Tierkreis.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Aeolus on March 30, 2010, 03:30:37 PM
This thread's a year too early. Make it again once I've finished Suki III (and at least started I, II, & V).
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Gen Eric Gui on March 30, 2010, 03:37:03 PM
Quote
I'm really not sure if I should play Suikoden Tactics and Suikoden Tierkreis.


Tactics; no, unless you really liked S4.  Tierkreis; yes, definitely.  People need to stop treating Tierkries like it's a red-headed stepchild of the series, it's as much a part of the series as the ones on console.  It's more Suikoden-ey then S4 was, that's for sure.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: daschrier on March 30, 2010, 04:24:43 PM
I enjoyed S1 back in the day. Couldn't get into 5, and the thought of needing a guide or else get a craptastic ending soured me on the game. Played 3 for only a few hours, and 4 I've never opened.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: citizenchris099 on March 30, 2010, 05:24:05 PM
this is def one I want to pic up from the psn. wish they would release 2 as well ugh
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Lard on March 30, 2010, 06:48:56 PM
Quote
I'm really not sure if I should play Suikoden Tactics and Suikoden Tierkreis.


Tactics; no, unless you really liked S4.  Tierkreis; yes, definitely.  People need to stop treating Tierkries like it's a red-headed stepchild of the series, it's as much a part of the series as the ones on console. 

No, absolutely not.

It was a cash-in with the Suikoden name slapped on it for some extra sales.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Ashton on March 30, 2010, 06:51:06 PM
Considering you haven't played it I don't think your opinion has much weight at all.

Tactics is worth playing because it's the other half of Suikoden 4's story.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Lard on March 30, 2010, 06:52:55 PM
Meh. I don't need to.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Dincrest on March 30, 2010, 07:03:43 PM
I'm actually not the biggest Suikoden fan out there, but mention must be made of the Gregminster music in Suiko1.  Still one of my all time favorite RPG town songs.  Game as a whole had a tight soundtrack. 
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Lard on March 30, 2010, 07:07:57 PM
Honestly, I don't think we're ever going to see another proper game anyway. Konami seems content to farm out their series to sub-par developers and let them churn out half-assed sequels.

Has Konami Japan actually done anything other than MGS4?

Winning Eleven maybe, but that's all I can think of.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Ashton on March 30, 2010, 07:08:29 PM
Meh. I don't need to.
Which is why your opinion on games is generally considered little more than a laughingstock.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Cyril on March 30, 2010, 07:14:42 PM
I love Suikoden, even Tierkreis.  Tierkreis, despite all of the hate for it, actually felt like a Suikoden game.  To me it actually felt more like "Suikoden" than III did (I still liked III, though).
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Lard on March 30, 2010, 07:45:52 PM
Meh. I don't need to.
Which is why your opinion on games is generally considered little more than a laughingstock.

Boo hoo.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Ashton on March 30, 2010, 07:50:01 PM
The truth hurts, doesn't it?
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Lard on March 30, 2010, 07:54:29 PM
The truth hurts, doesn't it?

Totally.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Dizzy on March 30, 2010, 07:55:04 PM
While I admit I'm not as big of a fan of Suikoden as other people are, I generally enjoyed all of the games. I'd say my favorite one is 5, followed by 2. They were pretty awesome.

It'd be cool if I could get my hands on those Suikogaiden VNs. I'd like to try them out. :P

EDIT:
Quote
What do you like/dislike the most about the series?
I wouldn't know what to say about what I dislike about the series, since I never really thought about it, but one thing I did like was the RPS type duels. Those were always fun. Also, I like the the series has no shortage of hot women to put in my party. :P
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Saviour on March 30, 2010, 10:44:40 PM
I've played them all. My hype for new Suikoden games rivals any other series. Not that I consider Suikoden consistently great because I find some of them outright sucks, but when the developers get it right (namely 2 & 5), they are amazing.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Eusis on March 30, 2010, 10:58:00 PM
Meh. I don't need to.

Only if you want to rise above the scum of the internet!

Anyways, I haven't thoroughly read this yet, but it seems relevant due to timing: A Suikoden V versus Tierkreis (http://www.gamespite.net/toastywiki/index.php/Games/SuikodenVVsTierkreis) article.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Gen Eric Gui on March 30, 2010, 11:57:23 PM
Dammit, now I want to play Suikoden 5 again.  Prince Frejadour is so cool~~~
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Ashton on March 31, 2010, 12:24:27 AM
Play it without Weapon Upgrades, or only upgrade weapons up to the maximum limit that normal NPC shops can go to. Keeps you from getting all Godlike.

Also have some limitations in terms of magic. They balanced the game terribly.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Summoner Yuna on April 01, 2010, 12:48:55 PM
I just got Suikoden V in the mail! The premise of the story, although it's yet again political strife (like all Suikodens), seems particularly compelling this time around, just like Suikoden II and III. The characters are quite likeable, and I like how they're exploring more character interaction (like family relationships, especially). It gives the characters way more depth than usual for an RPG, even if some of them still fall into some stereotypes common to the genre. However, I can't help but think that it is a little jarring that the prince doesn't talk at all while everyone else is given spoken dialogue, this sticks out like a sore thumb. I'm getting used to it but it feels a little retro, when in Suikoden III all three main characters had direct interaction with other characters, not only through short phrases that you choose on their behalf.

The gameplay is classic Suikoden and I'm curious to see how the formations aspect affects gameplay later on, such as boss fights.

Sadly, I won't be able to advance very much in the game this week because I have a lot of homework to do for college. :(

 
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Pesmerga on April 02, 2010, 01:03:51 AM
ahhh damn im probly one of the biggest fans out there for this series. and im going to say this. Suikoden Tierkreis killed my hope for me ever thinking that there could be another goood suikoden game made. it felt like it was made for a five year old child. the plot was HORRIBLE. honesly i am bowing my head in shame right now for actually buying this game and supporting the idiots who made this. and for anyone who thinks that this game is more close to the series then the first three? are u kidding me? what planet are u from? what suikoden games have u been playing. heres what i did with my copy of tierkreis.. lmao im not kidding i didnt bring it back and get credit i put it into my garbage, where it belongs. love suikoden but damn.. ive givin up hope for another Murayama masterpiece.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: MereMare on April 02, 2010, 04:26:00 AM
I'm really not sure if I should play Suikoden Tactics and Suikoden Tierkreis.

Absolutely yes, if you're a fan of strategy rpgs.

Despite only having played III, IV, V, Tactics and Tierkreis, I'd say III is the best. A non-silent protagonist, gameplay from five different perspectives.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Gen Eric Gui on April 02, 2010, 08:45:16 AM
ahhh damn im probly one of the biggest fans out there for this series. and im going to say this. Suikoden Tierkreis killed my hope for me ever thinking that there could be another goood suikoden game made. it felt like it was made for a five year old child. the plot was HORRIBLE. honesly i am bowing my head in shame right now for actually buying this game and supporting the idiots who made this. and for anyone who thinks that this game is more close to the series then the first three? are u kidding me? what planet are u from? what suikoden games have u been playing. heres what i did with my copy of tierkreis.. lmao im not kidding i didnt bring it back and get credit i put it into my garbage, where it belongs. love suikoden but damn.. ive givin up hope for another Murayama masterpiece.

Suikoden Tierkreis' story is much closer to the actual legend the series references then any of the games made after Suikoden 1.

I'm sorry the game wasn't your cup of tea, but it was an amazing game.  It wasn't the best game in the series, but it was not "made for a 5 year old", and the plot wasn't any worse then the plot of the original game.  It sounds to me like you're just overreacting like Lard because they changed a handful of things in the gameplay and story.

And Murayama didn't work on the game.  I don't really understand why "OH MY GOD I DIDN'T LIKE THIS ONE GAME THAT HE DIDN'T WORK ON" means he's never going to come back and make a game you'll like again.  I didn't like FF12, but that hardly means that I think Sakaguchi is never going to make a good game again.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Ashton on April 02, 2010, 02:20:16 PM
ahhh damn im probly one of the biggest fans out there for this series. and im going to say this. Suikoden Tierkreis killed my hope for me ever thinking that there could be another goood suikoden game made. it felt like it was made for a five year old child. the plot was HORRIBLE. honesly i am bowing my head in shame right now for actually buying this game and supporting the idiots who made this. and for anyone who thinks that this game is more close to the series then the first three? are u kidding me? what planet are u from? what suikoden games have u been playing. heres what i did with my copy of tierkreis.. lmao im not kidding i didnt bring it back and get credit i put it into my garbage, where it belongs. love suikoden but damn.. ive givin up hope for another Murayama masterpiece.
You are sadly mistaken.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Hathen on April 02, 2010, 02:52:55 PM
A Suikoden V versus Tierkreis (http://www.gamespite.net/toastywiki/index.php/Games/SuikodenVVsTierkreis) article.

That article might as well have been a general review of Tierkreis, because he doesn't really go into detail of the comparison between the two so much as just point out what differences Tierkreis had from the other games of the series.

Also, I personally found Tierkreis decidedly average. I was not impressed with the story or the gameplay. I'd replay 1, 2, 3, and 5 anyday before I'd replay Tierkreis.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Lard on April 02, 2010, 03:51:37 PM
I'm sorry the game wasn't your cup of tea, but it was an amazing game.  It wasn't the best game in the series, but it was not "made for a 5 year old", and the plot wasn't any worse then the plot of the original game.  It sounds to me like you're just overreacting like Lard because they changed a handful of things in the gameplay and story.

No, you're asserting your opinion as fact, again. That doesn't make it right.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Pesmerga on April 02, 2010, 04:47:51 PM
Im a fan of innovation with games .. when its done right.. S.T. just departed to far, changing too much. its not even set in the same suikoden universe as all the other previous games. I just think if your going to spend all this time and money into making another suikoden game, stay true to the time-line of the series. i want to see some shit going down in harmonia. like damn. i dont want another friggin prequil. Murayama hasnt been on staff at konami since halfway through the completion of S3 its very doubtful hes going to comeback. and to me thats probably the only way the series would become what it once was again, thats all im saying. im not trying to offend anyone. :P
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Gen Eric Gui on April 02, 2010, 05:34:13 PM
Quote
its not even set in the same suikoden universe as all the other previous games.

That's actually arguable.  Suikoden 1 confirmed the existence of multiple planes, wherein the Dragons, Monsters, and Gate Runes were pulled from.  It is easily within the realm of imagining to say that the Tierkreis world was one of those many.

But even still, even if it's not the same world, the game has the same spirit as the older games.  As I've stated previously, it matches more closely to the original "The Water Margin" story that the series is based on then any of the 'standard' games.  The only one that really comes close is S1.

Also also, Tierkreis was confirmed to be a side-story, and is not connected to the main numbered games at all.  So I really fail to see why there is so much concern over this.  The game did well, Konami has given no indication that they plan to stop the main series indefinitely, and Kurayama has a job offer that's probably from Konami.  All the doom and gloom in the face of all this is kinda of depressing.  If you want to complain about a series that is being pushed to failure, let's all talk about Breath of Fire.


@Lard: And you're spewing opinions formed about the game without ever even having played the thing.  I really don't think you have any place to talk whatsoever.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Pesmerga on April 02, 2010, 06:00:38 PM
yes. true. i dont really care to much about the games story being close to the original water margin story. i like more what derived from that basic idea and got turned into somthing great.all the first three completely tie together and thats one of the reasons why i loved it. like ive been waiting since S3 to play the events that come after the grassland wars. no more prequils no more side stories. enough is enough alreay its been like 10 friggin years. and even if the day was to come that my wish came true i wonder if the wait will even be worth it.

but back to what i was saying thats what bothered me about S.T. the fact that it DIDNT tie together with everyhing  in the previous Suiko games. that and i just thought it was crap :P following S5, i duno deffenatly was probly a hard thing todo but meh.

yeaa. that job offer wasnt from konami...  </3 it was for him todo umm music for some klind of interactive encyclopeidia.

Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Ashton on April 03, 2010, 12:03:14 AM
I'm sorry the game wasn't your cup of tea, but it was an amazing game.  It wasn't the best game in the series, but it was not "made for a 5 year old", and the plot wasn't any worse then the plot of the original game.  It sounds to me like you're just overreacting like Lard because they changed a handful of things in the gameplay and story.

No, you're asserting your opinion as fact, again. That doesn't make it right.
Hey look, hypocrisy from Lard! Who'da thunk it!
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: jj984jj on April 03, 2010, 01:25:48 AM
Kurayama has a job offer that's probably from Konami. 
Murayama updated his blog saying he didn't take whatever job was being offered.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Pesmerga on April 03, 2010, 01:28:11 PM
Kurayama has a job offer that's probably from Konami. 
Murayama updated his blog saying he didn't take whatever job was being offered.


I just said that in my last post. lmao. its dissapointing too though because im sure there were alot of people that were hoping for his return to konami one day :P
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Lard on April 03, 2010, 08:19:09 PM
I'm sorry the game wasn't your cup of tea, but it was an amazing game.  It wasn't the best game in the series, but it was not "made for a 5 year old", and the plot wasn't any worse then the plot of the original game.  It sounds to me like you're just overreacting like Lard because they changed a handful of things in the gameplay and story.

No, you're asserting your opinion as fact, again. That doesn't make it right.
Hey look, hypocrisy from Lard! Who'da thunk it!

And douchebaggery from Leyviur, I'm stunned.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Ashton on April 03, 2010, 11:04:43 PM
(http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/5128/dawsoncryingl.jpg)
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Hidoshi on April 04, 2010, 01:26:34 AM
I'm sorry the game wasn't your cup of tea, but it was an amazing game.  It wasn't the best game in the series, but it was not "made for a 5 year old", and the plot wasn't any worse then the plot of the original game.  It sounds to me like you're just overreacting like Lard because they changed a handful of things in the gameplay and story.

No, you're asserting your opinion as fact, again. That doesn't make it right.
Hey look, hypocrisy from Lard! Who'da thunk it!

And douchebaggery from Leyviur, I'm stunned.

(http://hidoshi.com/junk/lard.jpg)
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Lard on October 27, 2010, 05:55:06 PM
It's like they're taunting us. :(

http://www.siliconera.com/2010/10/27/next-suikoden-project-is-sadly-a-pachislot-machine/
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Starmongoose on October 27, 2010, 06:02:47 PM
Boo.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Lard on October 27, 2010, 06:05:11 PM
I just looked over to the calandar and I noticed it isn't April 1st, so this isn't an April Fools joke...

That's the only reason I thought would be behind this.

When it is finally announced, my money is on 3DS being the platform now.

Possibly, yeah.

I think the series is dead at this point.

I don't think we're ever going to get a game set after Suikoden III. :(
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Dice on October 27, 2010, 07:18:08 PM
Boo.
I echo this response.

BOOO BOO BOO BOO BOO ...

The person and team who thought this was a good idea should be shot.  No question.
I hope the series isn't dead...  then again, I wonder what the fuck has been so hard so as to rival the II and III game. I mean, the formula they have is basic, but somehow always fucked up when it comes to playing.

I was thinking about this series.  How I loved seeing the histories of the characters being played out across the games.  Goddamn shame we won't see one for some time at this rate.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Hathen on October 27, 2010, 07:21:31 PM
I guess it's somewhat appropriate that they're using the Suiko 4 characters for it. Pretty sure we're being trolled here.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Starmongoose on October 27, 2010, 07:39:34 PM
Boo.
I echo this response.

BOOO BOO BOO BOO BOO ...



Oh, you! I see what you did there.

Tee-hee!
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Dice on October 27, 2010, 07:44:47 PM
I guess it's somewhat appropriate that they're using the Suiko 4 characters for it. Pretty sure we're being trolled here.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v411/Valkyrie963/Louis-hotel-dusk-room-215-1037723_170_200.gif)
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Darilon on October 27, 2010, 07:45:53 PM
Talk about rune of punishment. Well at least now we know what Lazlo looks without the baby face.

Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Alisha on October 27, 2010, 07:49:28 PM
i had always hoped that one day they would make a suikoden game with the production values of a MGS game(kinda like the new castlevania) looks like that will never happen >_<
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Themadcow on October 28, 2010, 10:01:10 AM
It's not a massive suprise considering Konami's casino/coin-op stuff has been using game series licences for a while. Saying that, I also saw this over on Suikosource and thought: this is the end of Suikoden.

At least this explains the trademark re-register thing.

In other news, just finished playing Suiko 1 again and I was surprised at how small the 'dungeons' were compared with how I remember them. The only one that didn't feel bite-sized was the cave at Qlon.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Mickeymac92 on October 28, 2010, 10:06:49 AM
I've never had much interest in the series outside of Suikoden V and Tierkris. People keep telling me that they're some of the greatest games ever, but they look pretty generic to me. What's supposed to be so good about them?
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Gen Eric Gui on October 28, 2010, 10:24:47 AM
It's the fact that they have good stories coupled with the fact that they're almost all super-streamlined games that have managed to shed all the boring and stupid crap from the RPG genre, coupled with the fact that there's stuff to collect that's actually worth collecting, ie: usable characters.  There's a lot more that's great about the games but those are some of the more visible reasons.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: xXMelancholiaXx on October 28, 2010, 10:28:48 AM
I've never had much interest in the series outside of Suikoden V and Tierkris. People keep telling me that they're some of the greatest games ever, but they look pretty generic to me. What's supposed to be so good about them?
I don't have the faintest clue as to why people like Suikoden either. Of course to be fair I've only played Suikoden III. I might be willing to give the series another go in the future. But I'm definitely going to be more cautious than I was the first time around. I initially purchased Suikoden III since gamespot gave it such a great review. I regret not doing more research into it before buying it now.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Dice on October 28, 2010, 10:41:30 AM
It's the fact that they have good stories coupled with the fact that they're almost all super-streamlined games that have managed to shed all the boring and stupid crap from the RPG genre, coupled with the fact that there's stuff to collect that's actually worth collecting, ie: usable characters.  There's a lot more that's great about the games but those are some of the more visible reasons.

Political story (still mixed with some magic) and character tales can actually be pretty cool.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: badsanta on October 28, 2010, 10:42:30 AM
Any and all disbelievers need to play Suikoden II. The problem with that, is that it's so darn expensive, so unless you're willing to pony up a lot of cash, you won't be able to play the dang thing unless you resort to ... other means. (If you know what I mean.) Either way, it's one of the best in the series, with only Suikoden V coming anywhere close, and while that one is good, Suikoden II is still the top entry.

III was alright, but I felt that were a number of problems. It actually started out pretty nice, but it eventually started going downhill; it doesn't help that the original head of the franchise left partway through development.

I...is a relic. It's still playable, and probably better then IV, but whereas certain other games such as FFVI and Chrono Trigger are timeless classics, the original Suikoden has been trumped since it's inception in every area, gameplay and story included, even by future installments of it's own series. Still, you have to give it credit for starting it all, and it introduced a number of handy new/different things for the RPG genre at the time.

And IV is apparently such a dis-justice to the series that I haven't bothered to play it, though I'm pretty sure just about everyone else agrees on it's level  of quality. (Or lack thereof...)
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: xXMelancholiaXx on October 28, 2010, 10:45:35 AM
Any and all disbelievers need to play Suikoden II.
I might be willing to get Suikoden II if it wasn't so expensive. I'm definitely not going to spend that much money on a game I don't think I'm going to like in the first place.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: xXMelancholiaXx on October 28, 2010, 11:05:22 AM
I find it hard to believe that any RPG fan would dislike Suikoden I and II, though III I could see why that might be.  You could try Suikoden from the PlayStation Store and play it on a PS3 or PSP if you can?  An original copy goes for silly amounts.
Maybe. After watching some gameplay footage of it on youtube I get this feeling I won't like Suikoden II either...
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Starmongoose on October 28, 2010, 11:10:40 AM
To each their own, however Suikoden 2 is far from generic, even though it may seem like it from the outside.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Mickeymac92 on October 28, 2010, 01:50:17 PM
I've not seen anything regarding Suikoden II. I'll probably pick it up as my first in the series. If it can't impress me, I suppose nothing will.

Still, when I said it looked generic, I just meant from a gameplay and aesthetic perspective, especially the first game, which visually is about as generic as a game can get, and I imagine it did not even impress when it was new. The later games, particularly V and Teirkris, are at least visually impressive, even though the gameplay is nothing new. With that said, from what I understand, Suikoden III is actually pretty unique for the series and actually did something unique with the gameplay, correct? I might want to go check it out some time. I almost bought it a dozen times, but every time I figured I wouldn't like it because it's Suikoden.

As for the positives, the only good things about the series I've ever heard mentioned, including here, are the large cast and the story. To be quite honest, that just leaves me even more weary of them, since that reminds me of a bunch of games I hate: The large cast reminds me of Infinite Undiscovery and Final Fantasy VI, while the themes in the story (politics, war, etc.) remind me of Final Fantasy Tactics and Fire Emblem. Not that those series have anything to do with Suikoden, it's just, well, I'm not sure if it's just the excecution that made my dislike those elements in those other games, or if I just don't care for them in general.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: kyuusei on October 28, 2010, 09:39:41 PM
The thing about Fire Emblems is you have your Jeigans (units that come to your party already promoted, but with shitty stats), which you don't normally want to use unless you're in a pinch. Everything else is just giving you a choice between a couple of mages, a couple of social knights (or whatever the hell they're called in North America) etc. for each class, depending on whose stat growth you like better. tl;dr: You don't actually use all of the giant cast, nor would you in any of the other games with that many characters.

Some games handle having a lot of characters well, others don't. They can't all be lumped into one category just because of the cast size alone. The only game with a huge cast that really bothered me story wise/character development is.... Chrono Cross.

That said I think Suikoden II is always worth a try as long as it's accessible. I liked it more than III.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Gen Eric Gui on October 28, 2010, 11:41:15 PM
Having a large cast is never, ever a bad thing.  It's more choices!  Choices are good, last time I checked.

And Suikoden 3 is quite different from the rest of the series in terms of the way the story is presented, as well as in the way the battle system works and in the way everything is structured.  It's absolutely FANTASTIC, though ,and anyone who hates it is a terrible person who should feel bad.  Lord Thomas FTMFW.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: kyuusei on October 28, 2010, 11:46:55 PM
I never got far in III, but I for sure didn't hate it. I don't have my copy anymore, unfortunately.

I like choice. I just happen to dislike a bunch of the choices in Chrono Cross. :P
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Mickeymac92 on October 29, 2010, 12:38:55 AM
Choice is alright, I guess. I just don't like it when there's too many choices, and when there's no "right" choice that I have to figure out.

I'll see if I can pick up a cheap copy of Suikoden III someday, as well as Suikoden V and Tierkris.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: beach1 on October 29, 2010, 12:59:15 AM
Suikoden II is probably my 2nd favorite rpg ever behind Final Fantasy 4. The game was just so addicting on the first play through. The music, story, main characters, and graphics are fantastic (if you like 2-d, handdrawn sprite graphics.) The gameplay is great too. There are so many cool little minigames to do in it as well and so much charming, fun little things about the game. It's probably one of the few rpgs where on my first playthrough I didn't get sick of it at any point and had to play it everyday until I beat it. That's how fun and addicting it was to me. Suikoden I was great too. Not as good as 2, but still really good.

I was really disappointed with Suikoden 3. It felt so different from 1 and 2. I didn't like the 3-d graphics as much as the previous games' 2-d graphics. The battles were weird and kind of annoying. It wasn't horrible, but it didn't seem to click with me as much as the first 2 did. I may have to try 3 again. Maybe my opinion of it will change.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: TurnBasedDude on October 29, 2010, 01:13:28 AM
My problem when i played III was the pacing. To me, it felt like the intros felt way longer than the actual main portion of the story when everyone unites. With IV, yeah, it is shallow, but it was not a bad game at all. Easy to get to in some ways the very least.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Dice on October 29, 2010, 01:41:10 AM
My problem when i played III was the pacing. To me, it felt like the intros felt way longer than the actual main portion of the story when everyone unites. With IV, yeah, it is shallow, but it was not a bad game at all. Easy to get to in some ways the very least.

They all had pacing issues in a lengthy starting.
Suikoden V's drags on a good 5 hours!
The second one has you stashing boxes.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Raze on October 29, 2010, 02:33:16 AM
Suikoden III was for me a LOT better after the first playthrough. Not like the story was impossible to follow first time through, but everything just clicks when you're playing again and know everyone and their perspective. I don't know if I can really recommend the game to a new player and say 'Play it twice and you'll love it!', but I can recommend people who played it and found it to be 'eh' to give it another go.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Themadcow on October 29, 2010, 04:26:10 AM
The 108 characters thing is either 'your bag' or not. It's very much a Pokemon "gotta catch em all" factor.

The thing is, you don't have to use them and the collection of the characters acts as a secondary level of difficulty if you complete it without the full set - I'd strongly recommend playing S2 without a guide on your first run to see how many you can get, and then doing it again with a guide. I'd say it's almost impossible to collect all 108 in S5 without a guide as the windows for recruitment and pre-conditions are insanely tough compared to previous versions.

In terms of being 'generic' - there are many elements that are fairly generic but it just doesn't feel like it. The Suikoden series stands out from it's contemporaries because of the incredibly powerful stories, fantastic music (S2 final battle with Neclord ftw) and some of it's unique factors - such as the HQ that grows with you during the game. The only thing I'd genuinely change about the game is making the battles tougher as it's more than possible to beat most of the games in the series without getting 'wiped' once.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: sandiny0ursh0es on October 29, 2010, 12:06:06 PM
Honestly what hooks me to this series is finding all the characters and watching your castle grow. I could care less about the story. The battle system is boring and extremely easy. In Suikoden V, I just spammed Auto-Attack/Battle and coasted through the entire game.

However, once you get your castle and start recruiting people, the game gets all kinds of fun!
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Gen Eric Gui on October 29, 2010, 12:33:01 PM
The point of the battle system is that it removes boring combat from the game by making combat quick and painless.  This solves several level-grinding issues and makes it easier to get back to the exploring/recruiting parts of the game that are the real draw.  I'd hardly call the easy combat in Suikoden a negative.  At least several of the bosses are tough.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Dice on October 29, 2010, 12:41:27 PM
The point of the battle system is that it removes boring combat from the game by making combat quick and painless.  This solves several level-grinding issues and makes it easier to get back to the exploring/recruiting parts of the game that are the real draw.  I'd hardly call the easy combat in Suikoden a negative.  At least several of the bosses are tough.

Any difficulty spike, I found, was conquered by easy and quick levelling. In the end, the advantage comes from the better tier'd characters that exist (it's not a matter of function, some just suck more than others).

I'm surprised; I'd probably be angrier (ARR) with such simple gameplay mechanics except the game really carries itself well to pretty much all other departments.  Music and scenery (not so much graphics exactly) were a real highlight, taking you through quite a worldly experience of middle-aged earth.  I think thats one aspect I *love* about the series - you get a lot of culture from the places you see.  No wonder there's god knows how many arrange albums.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Hobbun on October 29, 2010, 07:42:47 PM
I am playing Suikoden III right now and am enjoying it. I have almost finished the first chapter for the characters (just have to finish Thomas Chpt 1).  Please tell me that the actual 'main' story is longer than all the beginning chapters of the game. Not that they are short by any means, but I just want one of those experiences where you just played a large part of the game, but now the 'real' story is just beginning. 

I hope it isn't the character chapters take up the meat of the game, and then chapter 4 and 5 are a lot shorter. That would be disappointing.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Mickeymac92 on October 29, 2010, 08:20:01 PM
*Sigh* The more I see, the less interested I become, but at least the question no longer burns. Quick and simple combat isn't exactly my thing (in fact, it usually kills most games for me), and gameplay's always the most important part for me. I'll see if I can pick up some of them for cheap someday, but otherwise I'll just skip out on the series for now.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: pseudonym on October 30, 2010, 06:16:26 PM
I was thinking about this earlier and there are a few things that I was impressed with back in 1997, when I first played Suikoden II:

- 3 different battle systems (standard turn-based, army battles and 1 vs. 1)
- 6 character turn-based battles
- 108 (mostly) playable characters
- The story is very powerful
- The music is beautiful
- And the visuals are clear, neat and well presented for a 2D RPG

I'm not trying to troll here or give anyone a reason to play Suikoden II by raging about these points - those are just a few of the things that really made the experience quiet unique for me back in the day (especially the top 3 points).

Does anyone feel the same way about some of the things I've mentioned here?

Suikoden II stands as one of my favorite RPG's. At the time, the story was, at least for me, very interesting and original. I don't remember any other games during that time that were similar to Suikoden II. Comparing Suikoden II to games that we currently have, then yes, there are going to be some similarities and that may cause Suikoden II to seem less than original. However, in my eyes, Suikoden II came first, others later.

The music is very memorable. It draws from different types of genres to make it unique. Just like Final Fantasy VI (our 3), the music can often wrap the person up in the experience.

The gameplay may seem simple and almost trivial but, as you progress in the game and get stronger, the "auto" part becomes necessary for lesser enemies. Also, the game did offer a rune that would allow weaker enemies to stay away from you. I like the fact that some battles are drawn out. I think that's the problem with some current games. I like quicker battles.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Dice on October 30, 2010, 11:17:40 PM
*Sigh* The more I see, the less interested I become, but at least the question no longer burns. Quick and simple combat isn't exactly my thing (in fact, it usually kills most games for me), and gameplay's always the most important part for me. I'll see if I can pick up some of them for cheap someday, but otherwise I'll just skip out on the series for now.

I couldn't agree more, especially with the ebay prices that stand.
HOWEVER.  Like you, I am a gameplay buff - story can usually fuck itself if it means killer game mechanics (you'll probably hear me touting tri-Ace for that reason).
I think this game is a notable exception, however.  I don't really want to get into details though, I'd be too afraid to know if it can stand the test of time, especially.
But no game's story had ever moved me and made me more eager to see what happens next.  Story wise, it is absolutely wonderful - this coming from a gameplay buff.
On the bright side,you also get SRPG elements. =D
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Lard on October 31, 2010, 02:59:27 AM
*Sigh* The more I see, the less interested I become, but at least the question no longer burns. Quick and simple combat isn't exactly my thing (in fact, it usually kills most games for me), and gameplay's always the most important part for me. I'll see if I can pick up some of them for cheap someday, but otherwise I'll just skip out on the series for now.

Then you are a fool.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Hathen on October 31, 2010, 06:10:24 AM
Mickeymac: "I'm going to make an informed decision on whether or not to buy a product that can go as high as $200 based on information I can gather from those that own said product and my own knowledge of what I enjoy."

Lard: "YOU DON'T LIKE WHAT I LIKE YOU'RE A DUMBASS"
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Ashton on October 31, 2010, 07:05:05 AM
An apt summary.

Hey Lard, maybe you should stop being a fucking douche whenever someone holds an opinion that differs from your own. Just a piece of advice to prevent bannings and restrictions.

You're welcome.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Eusis on October 31, 2010, 10:55:05 AM
*Sigh* The more I see, the less interested I become, but at least the question no longer burns. Quick and simple combat isn't exactly my thing (in fact, it usually kills most games for me), and gameplay's always the most important part for me. I'll see if I can pick up some of them for cheap someday, but otherwise I'll just skip out on the series for now.

Then you are a fool.

Knock it off, while it probably wouldn't hurt to give Suik1 a shot if he has a PS3/PSP the rest can be somewhat pricey at best. And if something doesn't interest in after significant research there's probably not much you can do to convince him otherwise, certainly not with insults.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Mickeymac92 on October 31, 2010, 03:03:23 PM
It's not like Lard's the first one to call me a fool for not wanting to buy Suikoden.=P Pretty much everyone I know who have played the series loves them, but few are willing to explain to my why they're so good in a way that entices me. Luckily, everyone here has been more cooperative than I'm used to, thank you all. I have a strong feeling I'd be better off starting out either the best or easiest to obtain entry in the series that isn't the first and most poorly aged, and so far, it seems that most of that feeling is spot on, still not quite there: While technically the easiest to obtain Tierkris, it would seem that it's not a very wise choice, no? And that the best is Suikoden II, which is also the hardest to obtain? If so, I'll probably just wait to get one of the others cheap or just wait for Suikoden II to get a rerelease or remake. Who knows, Maybe it'll be like Lufia II where I actually find the remake more interesting and fun?

Again, thanks for your help, all.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Eusis on October 31, 2010, 03:32:10 PM
SuikI really hasn't aged that badly, we're not talking about an 8-bit or even 16-bit RPG here.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Mickeymac92 on October 31, 2010, 03:44:43 PM
SuikI really hasn't aged that badly, we're not talking about an 8-bit or even 16-bit RPG here.

It's aged poorly compared to other games in the series, and even for a game on the Playstation. At least that's the impression I get, not just from the videos and descriptions but even from what others have told me.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Eusis on October 31, 2010, 04:59:41 PM
I'm assuming he means gameplay or something, because if he means visuals that IS kind of bullshit. 2D came pretty close to its peak with the SNES games, and Suik1's a step above most of those. I don't really get how it would've aged poorly though, it controls fine, I'm pretty sure that most of what I would want from an interface is there. I guess some of the management of the 108 stars may be cumbersome though, and load times can occasionally be a pain, but both of those are in line with PS1 RPGs generally. This isn't like, say, contrasting FF1 to the SNES games or anything.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Starmongoose on October 31, 2010, 05:12:51 PM
Wild Arms aged badly, Suikoden hasn't in my opinion.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Dice on October 31, 2010, 05:15:27 PM
Wild Arms aged badly, Suikoden hasn't in my opinion.

Loading times age worse to me.

That, and Wild Arms gets half a star out of ten off for the stupid part where you have to "run away" from Adlehyde Castle and into the shitty sewers - those patrol guards are annoying as fuck.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Starmongoose on October 31, 2010, 05:17:19 PM
Wild Arms aged badly, Suikoden hasn't in my opinion.

Loading times age worse to me.

That, and Wild Arms gets half a star out of ten off for the stupid part where you have to "run away" from Adlehyde Castle and into the shitty sewers - those patrol guards are annoying as fuck.

I was stuck when one of the guards decided to park his ass infront of the door :( I had no choice but to get caught.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: beach1 on October 31, 2010, 05:43:31 PM
It's not like Lard's the first one to call me a fool for not wanting to buy Suikoden.=P Pretty much everyone I know who have played the series loves them, but few are willing to explain to my why they're so good in a way that entices me. Luckily, everyone here has been more cooperative than I'm used to, thank you all. I have a strong feeling I'd be better off starting out either the best or easiest to obtain entry in the series that isn't the first and most poorly aged, and so far, it seems that most of that feeling is spot on, still not quite there: While technically the easiest to obtain Tierkris, it would seem that it's not a very wise choice, no? And that the best is Suikoden II, which is also the hardest to obtain? If so, I'll probably just wait to get one of the others cheap or just wait for Suikoden II to get a rerelease or remake. Who knows, Maybe it'll be like Lufia II where I actually find the remake more interesting and fun?

Again, thanks for your help, all.
I actually kind of got bored of Tierkris part way through and still haven't finished it due to lending my DS to my sister. It's not a bad game, but something about it lost my interest kind of quickly. Maybe I was in a weird mood when I played it though. Also the character models during the battles look ugly. That bothered me a lot.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Gen Eric Gui on October 31, 2010, 08:39:32 PM
Pretty much everyone I know who have played the series loves them, but few are willing to explain to my why they're so good in a way that entices me.

It's hard to explain why Suikoden is good because it's just THAT good.Everything is done so well and so perfectly that it's hard to be able to sit down and say "This or that part is why it's good".  It's good because it's a good game, plain and simple as that.  If you don't like it, you don't like RPG's.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Starmongoose on October 31, 2010, 09:15:57 PM
If it makes you feel better, I just got into Suikoden recently when my boyfriend pratically forced the first game into my hands and forced me to play it.


I'm glad he did, because otherwise I would have missed a great series because I was too stubborn.

Though I understand the not wanting to buy such an expensive game. I'm just saying, if the opportunity arises, take it.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Themadcow on November 01, 2010, 05:15:39 AM
Wild Arms aged badly, Suikoden hasn't in my opinion.

Suiko 1's visuals are good on PSP, not looking so great on a bigger screen now. Suiko 2 still looks good on a decent size screen (32" ish) and some of the effects are outstanding (the hero/Jowy unite move for example). The music holds up really well too.

Pretty much everyone who is a fan of Suikoden doesn't consider Tierkreis to be part of the main series, or have the 'feel' of the main game.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Mickeymac92 on November 02, 2010, 11:57:23 AM
Again I fail to clarify.=P By "aged poorly", I should say "it doesn't impress as much anymore." Which is natural, of course, especially for a long running series, but that's why I rarely, if ever, start a series out with the first game unless I'm looking for a reason to hate said series (see Dragon Quest). I think the only exception so far is Xenosaga, but that's assuming there really is no connection between it and Xenogears. Really, I just need to become familiar enough with the brand so I can feel confident enough in it to purchase the rest of the series.

Anyways, I do recall someone mentioning that Suikoden doesn't do one thing well, it does everything just right. And while that may very well be the case, that's not really what I'm looking for when choosing whether or not to buy a game. I usually prefer to find something knowing that there's an aspect I that I'm sure I'll like and differentiates it from other games that I own. So long as it has that, I know I'll like the game and it'll be worth it, and if any other aspect of the game is also interesting/impressive, then that just makes it that much more worth it.

Not that I don't like it when a game does everything well, quite the contrary, in fact. However, I don't think it's smart to go into a game expecting it to be perfect, especially since I'm so terrible at handling disappointment. Case in point, I still can't get myself to play Nocturne, just because I was expecting it to be played from a First-Person point of view. There's nothing wrong with it, it's just not what I expected, but that's still a disappointment. Now try to imagine my disappointment if I went into Suikoden expecting it to be perfect and there turned out to be even one thing wrong! I don't think I'd want to go through with that, so I just try to make sure that the game does at least one think right and hope for the best.

With that said, I looked more into Suikoden III. I don't know why I didn't before. Heck, I thought it was an action-RPG of some sort before I checked it out. Apparently it shows a war from three different sides, which sounds interesting. I don't think I've seen any other game do that, not in a Turn-based, story-focused JRPG at least. That might be worth it if it can pull it off. The combat also sounds fairly unique, as I had hoped. Much more unique than in the first two games, at least. I didn't read too much into it, so I still don't know if I'll like it, but the fact that it's different should make it that much more interesting. SuiV also has some interesting features to its battle system, but not as much as SuiIII, so I think it'd be best if I start with III then hope for the best. Too bad that game's so expensive...
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Lazlowe1984 on November 02, 2010, 01:10:05 PM
Wild Arms aged badly, Suikoden hasn't in my opinion.

Suiko 1's visuals are good on PSP, not looking so great on a bigger screen now. Suiko 2 still looks good on a decent size screen (32" ish) and some of the effects are outstanding (the hero/Jowy unite move for example). The music holds up really well too.

Pretty much everyone who is a fan of Suikoden doesn't consider Tierkreis to be part of the main series, or have the 'feel' of the main game.


I would certainly recommend a PSP playthrough.I played Suikoden 1 on my PSP two years ago and it is one of my favorite RPGs of all time now.Its a well designed game with plenty of great moments and raising an army against an empire is always fun.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Akito on November 02, 2010, 03:22:34 PM
Sitting in my castle and playing Chinchirorin (3 dice game) all day is awesome. Still need to go back and beat Tierkreis...but there's no dice game...*grumble*
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Gen Eric Gui on November 02, 2010, 06:50:11 PM
Chinchirorin is only worth it in S1, where you can win max money in about 5 minutes.  Every other game disabled the ability to make hilarious profit off of the game, so I kinda lost interest in it after S1.

But man, going from 1000 bits to 999,999 in like three hands of that game was so much fun.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: beach1 on November 02, 2010, 07:14:29 PM
I love the whole watch-your-castle-and-army-grow aspect as you progress through the games. It's a pretty unique aspect of Suikoden and coming back to your base and see what new people have set up camp there or how there's a new developed section of your castle is just really fun.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Ashton on November 02, 2010, 11:45:27 PM
Pretty much everyone who is a fan of Suikoden doesn't consider Tierkreis to be part of the main series, or have the 'feel' of the main game.
Wrong. (http://www.rpgfan.com/reviews/Suikoden_Tierkreis/index.html)

Considering what Suikoden Tierkreis adds to the lore, there's nothing stopping the developers from inserting it into the main storyline if there's ever another mainline Suikoden game.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Themadcow on November 03, 2010, 12:51:07 PM
Pretty much everyone who is a fan of Suikoden doesn't consider Tierkreis to be part of the main series, or have the 'feel' of the main game.
Wrong. (http://www.rpgfan.com/reviews/Suikoden_Tierkreis/index.html)

Considering what Suikoden Tierkreis adds to the lore, there's nothing stopping the developers from inserting it into the main storyline if there's ever another mainline Suikoden game.

I said 'pretty much everyone' - and if you want a fan opinion then head over to suikosource, the Suikoden community, and ask the devoted fans there...
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Lazlowe1984 on November 03, 2010, 01:49:42 PM
I love the whole watch-your-castle-and-army-grow aspect as you progress through the games.[...]

This. 

My favourite aspect was recruiting the people who weren't directly involved with your army, but those who actually created the hospitality.  People like the shop owners, the farmers, artists and librarians etc.  It was also interesting to see the different races of people all living in their own areas.

Those were the people who made the HQ grow so differently each time you returned.  And of course the "lift guy" was an essential find.



Yeah the characters provided new areas of the castle to explore.That was neat.

Except for that kid at the door.

"This is ???? Castle.I feel so good."

I really don't give a fuck how you feel
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Archendrus on November 03, 2010, 03:44:13 PM
I've only played the first Suikoden.  I liked it, but my OCD kicks in with the 108 people you can recruit.  So I must find them all.  Problem was I couldn't always find them or was paranoid that I skipped over some.  I haven't played all the way through yet, must've gotten distracted by shiny objects =D  I thought the castle expansion thing was flippin' awesome.  I would like to finish it and start the 2nd one, I hear it's the best in the series.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Ashton on November 03, 2010, 07:18:48 PM
I said 'pretty much everyone' - and if you want a fan opinion then head over to suikosource, the Suikoden community, and ask the devoted fans there...

That IS a fan opinion. I'm probably the biggest Suikoden fan you'll find anywhere.

"Devoted fans" is just another word for "fanboy who hates change" so their opinions automatically don't count.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Starmongoose on November 03, 2010, 07:21:34 PM
I found that while Tierkreis was not up to the standards I would have preferred, it was still a great little game beating a lot of other competition.

Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Themadcow on November 05, 2010, 11:53:05 AM
That IS a fan opinion. I'm probably the biggest Suikoden fan you'll find anywhere.

"Devoted fans" is just another word for "fanboy who hates change" so their opinions automatically don't count.

I'm not questionning you are a fan, but your "wrong" comment is a little confrontational considering the well intentioned nature of the comment. I'd conceed that I should have said "most" rather than "pretty much all" though. How about "I don't agree..." instead next time eh? As for classifying an entire Suikoden community, many of which like Tierkreis, as fanboys who hate change... a little unfair.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Ashton on November 05, 2010, 03:02:04 PM
I'm not being confrontational. If I were - and if I wanted to offend - I'd have a few choice words. I was just saying that you are wrong in that anyone who considers themselves a fan would think that Tierkreis isn't a 'real' Suikoden.

As I said, Tierkreis has all the essential feel of a Suikoden game. The only thing really missing are returning characters and different battle systems (for war/one-on-one battles), and it'd be simple enough to bring them back into the Suikoden mainline games.

Your post also implied that the most of the "devoted fans" over at Suikosource hate Tierkreis, and considering most of the hate it's getting is undeserved, I made a statement based on that implication.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Gen Eric Gui on November 05, 2010, 05:20:26 PM
I'm the biggest Suikoden fan I know of, and I loved Tierkreis.  If that means anything at all.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Ashton on November 06, 2010, 10:01:29 AM
I liked IV too, for what it's worth, it's a disappointing Suikoden game, to be sure, but it's a great RPG. The random encounter rate pissed me off, but it had all the right quirks and stuff to make it enjoyable. The confession room stuff was hysterical, and I really enjoyed throwing shit at my crew members. The only thing I really hated was the four-character parties. Ugh.

But then I'm someone who even saw merit in the Suikogaiden games. So...
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: beach1 on November 06, 2010, 10:07:17 PM
I liked 4 too. It certainly wasn't great compared to 1 and 2, and I didn't even realize I was in the last part of the game until I beat it and ended up missing a lot of party members, but to me, it had more of a "Suikoden" feel than 3 did.

Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Lard on November 06, 2010, 10:57:43 PM
I liked 4 too. It certainly wasn't great compared to 1 and 2, and I didn't even realize I was in the last part of the game until I beat it and ended up missing a lot of party members, but to me, it had more of a "Suikoden" feel than 3 did.

What????

No way!
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Starmongoose on November 06, 2010, 11:16:25 PM
I really need to play 3. >.< Fucking morons. Why did it get a N/A release but not a PAL one when every other entry in the series got one. Sheesh. Plus I'm dying to see the plot considering who the antagonist is.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: beach1 on November 07, 2010, 01:29:02 AM
I liked 4 too. It certainly wasn't great compared to 1 and 2, and I didn't even realize I was in the last part of the game until I beat it and ended up missing a lot of party members, but to me, it had more of a "Suikoden" feel than 3 did.

What????

No way!

Is this sarcasm?
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Eusis on November 07, 2010, 01:56:59 AM
I really need to play 3. >.< Fucking morons. Why did it get a N/A release but not a PAL one when every other entry in the series got one. Sheesh. Plus I'm dying to see the plot considering who the antagonist is.

Given how it may've been the most successful entry in the series, yeah, it's really kind of confounding.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Themadcow on November 08, 2010, 12:20:09 PM

Never found out why it was canned for a PAL release...

Konami have never answered this. In fact, they have almost gone out of their way not to explain it! It may (possibly) have something to do German/French/Spanish localization but, really, god knows..

From suikox's FAQ with the Suiko team:

Question #12: Why was Suikoden III not released in Europe (PAL) and is there ever going to be a chance for European gamers to play the game?
Konami: Unfortunately the game can only work with NTSC so the probability of it releasing for PAL is very low.

Vextor:  That doesn't really answer the question of "why." Suikoden 1, 2, 4 and 5 were all released for PAL, so this answer makes no sense to anybody.  However, I do understand Konami doesn't plan to release Suikoden III in PAL regions, which is disappointing to say the least.


Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Starmongoose on November 08, 2010, 05:53:24 PM
Nice response, that's more information than I had seen previously.

I love the way they respond with "the game can only work with NTSC"... 

I can't even think how that is possible - what, it just doesn't work?  Brilliant!  I have my US import now anyway.

Can I come round and play? :P
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Eusis on November 08, 2010, 06:39:49 PM
Man, couldn't they have just said something vague like "evaluated it was a poor fit" or something? That kind of question dodge just makes you look like an idiot.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Themadcow on November 09, 2010, 07:22:04 AM
There were a few FAQ's permitted from fansites around the time of Tierkreis' release - unfortunately half of the responses were either dodges, uninformative or just spun to promote Tieirkreis (which is kinda understandable). Shame really.

Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Starmongoose on November 09, 2010, 12:20:44 PM
Can I come round and play? :P

Haha, sure.  Can you cook? =P

Hmmm. Good idea.

If you die of food poisoning I can just swipe the game.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Alisha on November 10, 2010, 09:34:10 AM
out of curiosity why is suikoden 4 so disliked? suikoden 4 and tactics are the only ones i played to completion,and i would go so far as to call tactics better than any FFT or FE game i've played.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Starmongoose on November 10, 2010, 09:37:23 AM
out of curiosity why is suikoden 4 so disliked? suikoden 4 and tactics are the only ones i played to completion,and i would go so far as to call tactics better than any FFT or FE game i've played.


I really liked Tactics. I did not like Suikoden 4 though, because I played it pretty soon after 2 and it felt like a big step backwards in characterization, plot, and gameplay.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Alisha on November 10, 2010, 11:12:12 AM
maybe the reason i liked it is because 3 was my first and i have yet to play 1 or 2.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Mickeymac92 on November 10, 2010, 11:40:00 PM
Does anybody know how rare/valuable Suikoden III is? Because I have a copy in my GS online cart for $12 (first time I've seen it for less than $30)...but I'm only supposed to use my debit card for emergencies. I'm just wondering if it would be possible for me to find it again for such a good price later next year?
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: DPB on November 11, 2010, 07:44:16 AM
Nice response, that's more information than I had seen previously.

I love the way they respond with "the game can only work with NTSC"... 

I can't even think how that is possible - what, it just doesn't work?  Brilliant!  I have my US import now anyway.

It's complete nonsense, considering that many PS2 games had an NTSC mode, and you'd be hard pressed to find a TV that doesn't support NTSC nowadays.

out of curiosity why is suikoden 4 so disliked? suikoden 4 and tactics are the only ones i played to completion,and i would go so far as to call tactics better than any FFT or FE game i've played.

It's mostly the horrendously slow sailing speed combined with the very high encounter rate, it makes going anywhere in the game a chore.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Mickeymac92 on November 11, 2010, 03:32:22 PM
Does anybody know how rare/valuable Suikoden III is? Because I have a copy in my GS online cart for $12 (first time I've seen it for less than $30)...but I'm only supposed to use my debit card for emergencies. I'm just wondering if it would be possible for me to find it again for such a good price later next year?

Buy that shit, now!

I'll see if I can get it delivered to the GS in the Capital and pay in cash.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Gen Eric Gui on November 12, 2010, 09:58:40 AM
It's mostly the horrendously slow sailing speed combined with the very high encounter rate, it makes going anywhere in the game a chore.

There's a reason Viki is available very early in the game.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Starmongoose on November 12, 2010, 04:43:34 PM
It's mostly the horrendously slow sailing speed combined with the very high encounter rate, it makes going anywhere in the game a chore.

There's a reason Viki is available very early in the game.

She doesn't matter, when the game wants you to go to an island for a story event, you have to sail there. The option for that island doesn't show up in Viki's list if you actually NEED to go there.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Gen Eric Gui on November 12, 2010, 05:06:42 PM
Yeah, but almost every island has at least one teleport location that's very close by.  You never need to sail long distances unless you're going somewhere for the first time.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Alisha on November 12, 2010, 06:48:20 PM
the only thing that particlularly annoyed me about sailing in suikoden 4 is that appearently the world is flat.....
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Starmongoose on November 13, 2010, 01:43:31 AM
the only thing that particlularly annoyed me about sailing in suikoden 4 is that appearently the world is flat.....

The world would seem flat from the perspective we see anyway...we are hardly at an orbital view.

Plus, that isn't the entire world of Suikoden, so it's not like Suikoden 4 is set on its own little sea-planet.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Mickeymac92 on November 25, 2010, 01:31:59 PM
Just thought I'd bump this thread and mention that I got Suikoden III today. I'll post my thoughts once I sink a good deal of time into it.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Giga_Force on November 25, 2010, 01:40:11 PM
I remember back in I think Spring of 2003 at Toys r Us, I seen a copy of Suikoden III and I was so happy, I grab the ticket, ran up to the front and snagged my copy quick.  I can see it being kinda rare I guess, this game came out during a weird phase for me, not many games were out in 2002-2003 that really caught my eye except a few great ones.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Pesmerga on November 26, 2010, 08:29:42 PM
I've always wanted to try out the Suikogaiden games, but the language barrier has always been a problem.  Saying that, I would have still loved to see them and maybe even own them one day.

umm . if the videos are still up goto youtube, type in suikogaiden. Look around for a bit and im pretty sure youll find videos of all the scenes with english subbs. i watched these videos about a year ago so im not sure if they're still up, but check em out they're pretty cool if your a fan of suikoden 2. :)
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Starmongoose on November 27, 2010, 02:39:58 AM
Holy Shit! Lyon is made of SPARKLES!
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: badsanta on November 27, 2010, 11:17:44 AM
Holy Shit! Lyon is made of SPARKLES!

Eh?
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Starmongoose on November 27, 2010, 12:14:29 PM
In Suikoden 5.

Quote
She got stabbed and instead of blood SPARKLES came out.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Gen Eric Gui on November 27, 2010, 03:31:36 PM
the only thing that particlularly annoyed me about sailing in suikoden 4 is that appearently the world is flat.....

The world would seem flat from the perspective we see anyway...we are hardly at an orbital view.

Plus, that isn't the entire world of Suikoden, so it's not like Suikoden 4 is set on its own little sea-planet.

Every suikoden game is set in just one country.  So of course the landbase is flat.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Starmongoose on November 27, 2010, 03:34:42 PM
I said that in my post.


"That isn't the entire world of Suikoden, so it's not like Suikoden 4 is set on its own little sea-planet". Meaning, it's just one country, there wouldn't be any curvature.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Gen Eric Gui on November 27, 2010, 03:44:32 PM
I was clarifying for Alisha, wasn't sure if she had made the same mistake about the other games.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Starmongoose on November 27, 2010, 03:47:00 PM
Oh right, sorry. I thought you were thinking that I also didn't know that.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Royal on November 28, 2010, 01:44:16 AM
I finished SIII and SV few years ago, now I play Tierkreis. SIII is one of my TOP PS2 RPGs. That game (with VP2, FFXII and DQVIII too) was one of the reasons why I bought PS2 console. I own complete SIII manga too.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Lard on November 28, 2010, 02:42:43 AM
I'm still missing ....four? (I think) random issues of the manga :(
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Anime & RPGl and on March 11, 2011, 01:06:21 PM
Anyone playing Suikoden for the DS...just stumbled on this game new for $20...is it worth it? The review here doesn't sound too bad.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Giga_Force on March 11, 2011, 01:09:57 PM
Suikoden Tierkreis is an ok addition to the series but it was actually my least favorite in the series but it was still good.  Many people complain about the main characters voice because he talks REALLY FAST!!!  I'd give it a 7/10 or so.  For $20, thats a good deal to me.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Starmongoose on March 11, 2011, 02:50:18 PM
Yep, it's a solid RPG - go for it.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Prime Mover on March 11, 2011, 09:52:23 PM
Good RPG, not a good Suikoden. I tend to play Suikoden to get away from a lot of the tropes that Tierkreis used: childish characters/dialog, obvious good/evil sides, overly fantastical/sci-fi plots, etc. Tierkreis is a good RPG, but it really doesn't feel very Suikoden to me. It was more like "Baby's first Suikoden". Still enjoyed it though.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Giga_Force on March 13, 2011, 05:35:15 AM
Seems like Konami could be interested in putting out Suikoden VI possibly by 2012. I remember Konami on Facebook said something like "We are not at the moment making a new Suikoden game but we would like to hear your opinions on the series."

It was something along those lines. I predict a Suikoden VI st E3.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Starmongoose on March 13, 2011, 08:13:37 AM
Seems like Konami could be interested in putting out Suikoden VI possibly by 2012. I remember Konami on Facebook said something like "We are not at the moment making a new Suikoden game but we would like to hear your opinions on the series."

It was something along those lines. I predict a Suikoden VI st E3.

Don't get my hopes up only to be dashed by another pichinko game. D:
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Themadcow on March 15, 2011, 07:01:04 AM
That facebook post was basically a response to a bit of a 'spamming' campaign by some militant pro-Suikoden fans so I wouldn't read anything into it.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Hathen on March 15, 2011, 09:25:28 AM
Seems like Konami could be interested in putting out Suikoden VI possibly by 2012. I remember Konami on Facebook said something like "We are not at the moment making a new Suikoden game but we would like to hear your opinions on the series."

I'm not sure what about that quote would make you think they plan on putting out another Suikoden anytime soon, all it says is that they're not making one right now.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Dice on March 15, 2011, 09:31:22 AM
Seems like Konami could be interested in putting out Suikoden VI possibly by 2012. I remember Konami on Facebook said something like "We are not at the moment making a new Suikoden game but we would like to hear your opinions on the series."

I'm not sure what about that quote would make you think they plan on putting out another Suikoden anytime soon, all it says is that they're not making one right now.

Wishful thinking, goddammit!! Wishful.  Thinking.  >={
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Commander Jubby Shepard on March 15, 2011, 12:46:05 PM
I saw Suikoden V and Tactics for fairly cheap at Gamestop. I read reviews on both of them, but I really can't decide whether to get them or not when I beat my current list of PS2 games. It's probably one of these or either the Xenosaga(s) or Persona 4 (or whatever SMT games may be at Gamestop).

Basically, my question is whether Suikoden V/ Tactics are anything special compared to the other stuff I mentioned.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Prime Mover on March 15, 2011, 01:05:36 PM
SuikoV is one of the best in the series. I haven't played Tactics, but it seems to get "okay" reviews.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Lard on March 15, 2011, 01:11:55 PM
Basically, my question is whether Suikoden V/ Tactics are anything special compared to the other stuff I mentioned.

Suiko V is definitely worth getting.

I have Tactics but haven't gotten around to it yet.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Commander Jubby Shepard on March 15, 2011, 01:33:04 PM
Is there anything particularly special about Suikoden V in comparison to PS2 SMT's, P4, or the Xenosaga series that would put it higher up on my PS2 list? Other than the 108 recruitable characters thing. I guess that's almost enough to put it well above Xenosaga...
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Lard on March 15, 2011, 02:38:31 PM
It's Suikoden.

Also, the story is very good - it just takes a while to get going.

And the music is excellent.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Dice on March 15, 2011, 02:41:32 PM
It's Suikoden.

Also, the story is very good - it just takes a while to get going.

And the music is excellent.

You'll also likely accumulate five gameplay hours to loading times
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Commander Jubby Shepard on March 15, 2011, 03:07:21 PM
You'll also likely accumulate five gameplay hours to loading times

I'm sold.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Kstar on March 15, 2011, 03:25:22 PM
Is there anything particularly special about Suikoden V in comparison to PS2 SMT's, P4, or the Xenosaga series that would put it higher up on my PS2 list? Other than the 108 recruitable characters thing. I guess that's almost enough to put it well above Xenosaga...

All of those are great games, you really can't go wrong with any of those choices.  Suikoden V is one of my favorite games of all time, but it takes time before it gets going.  The first couple hours aren't all that interesting, but then the narrative really heats up.  If you're looking to be blindsided by surprising twists - go for Suikoden V.  If you want a really deep narrative, with some interesting characters and love your cutscenes - Xenosaga would be a good fit. I enjoyed P3 a lot more than P4 (even though P4 was better in terms of fixing all the gripes people had to P3's gameplay).  P4 is an equally intense game with a stellar story and characterization.   
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Commander Jubby Shepard on March 15, 2011, 03:27:47 PM
Is there anything particularly special about Suikoden V in comparison to PS2 SMT's, P4, or the Xenosaga series that would put it higher up on my PS2 list? Other than the 108 recruitable characters thing. I guess that's almost enough to put it well above Xenosaga...

All of those are great games, you really can't go wrong with any of those choices.  Suikoden V is one of my favorite games of all time, but it takes time before it gets going.  The first couple hours aren't all that interesting, but then the narrative really heats up.  If you're looking to be blindsided by surprising twists - go for Suikoden V.  If you want a really deep narrative, with some interesting characters and love your cutscenes - Xenosaga would be a good fit. I enjoyed P3 a lot more than P4 (even though P4 was better in terms of fixing all the gripes people had to P3's gameplay).  P4 is an equally intense game with a stellar story and characterization.   

My friend has P3P. I planned to borrow that instead of buying P3FES. That's why P4 is on the list. I'll probably try Suikoden V. Maybe I'll try Tierkreitis (I have no idea how it's spelled) first. Is that a good place to start? I think I know someone who has it.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Gen Eric Gui on March 15, 2011, 04:29:34 PM
Tierkreis is nothing like the other Suikoden games.  It's still a great game, but it's not really indicative of the "Suikoden experience", if you will.  Play it if you have the chance, but don't think for a second that it replaces Suikoden 5 in the game lineup.

Personally, I never understood why people complained so much about S5's opening.  Maybe I'm just really tolerant of storyline set-ups, but all the early game exposition is absolutely required for the story to have the impact it has later on.  I also think that people tend to lump "Don't have a castle yet" with "Gameplay hasn't started yet" when it comes to Suikoden games, which isn't true at all.

The loading times are kind of a bummer though.

Suikoden Tactics is not worth playing if you haven't played Suikoden 4; and even then it's not really that great of a game.  You're better off spending your money on Suikoden 1 on PSN or something.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Commander Jubby Shepard on March 15, 2011, 07:20:57 PM
GAH! They have no Suikoden Tierkreis... Apparently they were talking about Chrono Trigger (which they lost). I guess V will be my first foray into Suikoden territory. Will it serve as a good starting point?
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Starmongoose on March 15, 2011, 07:24:07 PM
Yes, as long as you don't mind going backwards graphically (The stories are all pretty good though, regardless.)
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Giga_Force on March 15, 2011, 07:28:30 PM
Suikoden Tactics is a nice looking game, great soundtrack, really good cast of characters.  The story isn't that bad.  I remember buying this in November of 2005 and on the back of the manual, it showed the preview for Suikoden IV and it was only a few months away from release.  It was a good time back then for me :)
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Lard on March 16, 2011, 10:41:42 AM
It's Suikoden.

Also, the story is very good - it just takes a while to get going.

And the music is excellent.

You'll also likely accumulate five gameplay hours to loading times

Only five?

Suikoden Tactics is a nice looking game, great soundtrack, really good cast of characters.  The story isn't that bad.  I remember buying this in November of 2005 and on the back of the manual, it showed the preview for Suikoden IV and it was only a few months away from release.  It was a good time back then for me :)

It came out after S IV didn't it? Unless you mean S V?
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Giga_Force on March 16, 2011, 02:11:44 PM
Yep, I totally wrote the wrong roman numeral,lol.  I meant V.  I was really tired when I wrote that :P
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Themadcow on March 17, 2011, 10:11:21 AM
5 is the second best game in the series for me, after the mighty S2. The slow start is part of it's brilliance, but probably also part of it's downfall, as I'd imagine there was a fair few 'casual' purchasers who never even made it as far as the Sacred games, which is where it starts to pick up.

It's probably the gaming equivalent to the Song of Ice and Fire books by George RR Martin in terms of story scope and depth.

The downside for me is that combat (like most Suiko's) is far too easy and doesn't really present a challenge. Maybe the designers thought it would get in the way of the story...
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Giga_Force on March 17, 2011, 02:37:44 PM
It was non challenging for me.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Prime Mover on March 17, 2011, 03:34:56 PM
Suiko V was great. And it came at a time of absolute emptiness in jRPGs, a time where I was actually playing Star Ocean 3 because I didn't have anything else to do, so it was a welcome addition. Everything fits. The loading times are attrocious though. Probably the worst loading I've ever seen. DQ8s are probably longer, but the areas are huge, so you won't be loading as much. Though DQ8 has that horrible loading between the menu screen, which was aweful. Unfortunately, SuikoV sees 10 seconds of loading, walking five feet, and loading for another 10 seconds. It's the worst when your at your home castle because they designed the damned thing so you're walking in and outside all the time to get anywhere, so you have to load the outside scenery about 3 times to get where you need to go! It's a huge design flaw, but one that can be overcome with pensive meditation and/or medication.

Aside from that, the game is amazing. Great characters, phenominal cultural/political design, great story, and solid gameplay. I don't recall the music being particularly special, however the home base music is pretty good, and there are 3 different arrangements for it as the castle grows throughout the game, which was neat.

One word of warning: PLAY IT WITH A GUIDE to get all 108 stars. The 108 star ending is the ONLY good ending. Many of the stars are missable, in fact, many of them are almost impossible to find without a guide, or require doing exactly the right thing at the right time. This was another gripe.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Starmongoose on March 17, 2011, 03:37:23 PM
One of the stars was fucking INVISIBLE.

Not like he was hiding behind a tree or something, no, he was invisible.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Kstar on March 17, 2011, 03:44:34 PM
For Suikoden V, I suggest using a guide while you play.  I actually did and was able to get all the stars, but I was still a nervous wreck even following the guide that I'd lose one of the stars in battle or something.  Luckily, that didn't happen.  I highly recommend using this site: http://www.suikosource.com/games/sod.php?pf=S5 (http://www.suikosource.com/games/sod.php?pf=S5).  They even have a walkthrough that will tell you where you need to pick up the stars.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Starmongoose on March 17, 2011, 03:48:08 PM
I +1 that guide Kstar posted. It's the one I used when I played, it lets you avoid almost all spoilers if you are very careful about it.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Annubis on March 17, 2011, 04:34:04 PM
For Suikoden V, I suggest using a guide while you play.  I actually did and was able to get all the stars, but I was still a nervous wreck even following the guide that I'd lose one of stars in battle or something.  Luckily, that didn't happen.  I highly recommend using this site: http://www.suikosource.com/games/sod.php?pf=S5 (http://www.suikosource.com/games/sod.php?pf=S5).  They even have a walkthrough that will tell you where you need to pick up the stars.

Nice site, it's showing me I missed about 5 or so stars already in my Suikoden 2 game...
-_-#
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Dice on March 17, 2011, 04:42:22 PM
For Suikoden V, I suggest using a guide while you play.  I actually did and was able to get all the stars, but I was still a nervous wreck even following the guide that I'd lose one of stars in battle or something.  Luckily, that didn't happen.  I highly recommend using this site: http://www.suikosource.com/games/sod.php?pf=S5 (http://www.suikosource.com/games/sod.php?pf=S5).  They even have a walkthrough that will tell you where you need to pick up the stars.

Nice site, it's showing me I missed about 5 or so stars already in my Suikoden 2 game...
-_-#

Yeah..... happened to me.  I was on a roll... missed one.  No save.  BOO.  Nanami wasn't happy.  Hur hur.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Annubis on March 17, 2011, 04:50:15 PM
Quote
Save Nanami, "Best" Ending
- Gather the 108 Stars of Destiny before choosing to invade Rockaxe.
- Nanami must have a total DEF value of 121 or greater (you can use equipment to boost her DEF)
- You must select either dialogue option when she is deflecting the arrows; there is a time limit for this dialogue selection.
- You must get the "best" ending, which consists of not entering the meeting room in your castle but instead going to Tenzan Pass to meet Jowy at the place the friends swore to wait for each other if separated. Do not defeat Jowy in the duels he forces upon Riou, and when he tries to give you his true rune, keep rejecting it. Eventually, the end sequence will start.

Oh yeah, I was definitively on the right track there. It's all so obvious...
Was this a trick to sell the game guide or what? I mean seriously? This is retarded and the development team should be punted.
I don't even know why some game still possess dick moves like this. If you need a guide to discover the different endings (as in impossible by yourself) something is seriously broken.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Starmongoose on March 17, 2011, 04:58:00 PM
Suikoden 2 wasn't as bad as 5 was. It was still possible to do it on your own. Not on the first try of course, but if you spent enough time, it was possible.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Eusis on March 17, 2011, 05:58:28 PM
Suikoden II is also easier to forgive because it's a much shorter game. In the time it takes for V to gear up you're much of the way through II; you may have even passed parts of the game where you could miss recruiting characters in time or maybe you outright beat the game by then. Contrast with SuikV, which I believe takes 50 hours at a minimum.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Dice on March 17, 2011, 10:13:22 PM
Quote
Save Nanami, "Best" Ending
- Gather the 108 Stars of Destiny before choosing to invade Rockaxe.
- Nanami must have a total DEF value of 121 or greater (you can use equipment to boost her DEF)
- You must select either dialogue option when she is deflecting the arrows; there is a time limit for this dialogue selection.
- You must get the "best" ending, which consists of not entering the meeting room in your castle but instead going to Tenzan Pass to meet Jowy at the place the friends swore to wait for each other if separated. Do not defeat Jowy in the duels he forces upon Riou, and when he tries to give you his true rune, keep rejecting it. Eventually, the end sequence will start.

Oh yeah, I was definitively on the right track there. It's all so obvious...
Was this a trick to sell the game guide or what? I mean seriously? This is retarded and the development team should be punted.
I don't even know why some game still possess dick moves like this. If you need a guide to discover the different endings (as in impossible by yourself) something is seriously broken.

VP1 was pretty brutal for that too.
Radiant Historia, fortunately the time travel mechanism is wonderful against this, but some of the sidequests are a pain to figure out where to go.  I won't lie I've been using a guide - mainly so I don't have to backtrack too much (I'm already over-levelled...).

I hate those "website only" secrets, the ones you would have NEVER gotten through common sense or whatever.  Y'know, the ones that involve talking to a corner or something.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Alisha on March 17, 2011, 10:40:23 PM
about suikoden 4 if the world isnt flat because thats not were the map ends they should say so in game.

my personal favorite suikoden game is tactics. personally i dont understand the suikoden V love fest. at the pont in the game when lyon is poisoned or something i completely lost interest. a friend has suggested that maybe i didnt care for it(suikoden V) since it lacked the archetypal characters i tend to like. or maybe i didnt make it far enough into the game to find one? but that could probally be said for every rpg i didnt like that wasnt inherently bad.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Dice on March 17, 2011, 11:13:26 PM
about suikoden 4 if the world isnt flat because thats not were the map ends they should say so in game.

my personal favorite suikoden game is tactics. personally i dont understand the suikoden V love fest. at the pont in the game when lyon is poisoned or something i completely lost interest. a friend has suggested that maybe i didnt care for it(suikoden V) since it lacked the archetypal characters i tend to like. or maybe i didnt make it far enough into the game to find one? but that could probally be said for every rpg i didnt like that wasnt inherently bad.

Nah, I'm with you there.  I never finished it.  I said a while ago why.  I hated it's "lack of polish"; everything was there to bring back the "old Suikoden we all knew and loved" but it was only 75% there.  Nothing really immersed me, and travelling especially got annoying (the BAAAD load times + that boat village where you have to go in and out of cabins? Brr).  The story took waay longer than it should have to develop (it's no excuse for a game to be good HOURS in).  The graphics were ok, but bland and washed out.  And the music was good, but not memorable.  I did love having Lyon as a sidekick, it's probably been the best insight thus far to what a silent protagonist is thinking (I personally hate the idea of having one).

A shame too - I'd love another title that made me as happy to play as II & III.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Ashton on March 17, 2011, 11:17:29 PM
about suikoden 4 if the world isnt flat because thats not were the map ends they should say so in game.
They so. Not in so many words but talk about neighboring countries and whatnot. Do people say "the world is round" every say?
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Dice on March 17, 2011, 11:21:12 PM
about suikoden 4 if the world isnt flat because thats not were the map ends they should say so in game.
They so. Not in so many words but talk about neighboring countries and whatnot. Do people say "the world is round" every say?

so.... do?

say... day??

HMM..?
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Ashton on March 17, 2011, 11:27:20 PM
Whoops. This is what happens when I type posts on my phone. Still not used to non tactile feedback.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Dice on March 17, 2011, 11:29:21 PM
Whoops. This is what happens when I type posts on my phone. Still not used to non tactile feedback.

Precious iPhone.  My only complaint is changing my "fucks" to "ducks" and making my anger sound all cuddly.
That, and iPhone's assumption that half of my short typos are to be corrected as an acronym for god knows what.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Ashton on March 17, 2011, 11:31:07 PM
I'm actually on a windows 7 phone, but yeah, same thing.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Annubis on March 17, 2011, 11:56:59 PM
VP1 was pretty brutal for that too.

As much as I worship VP1, I acknowledge that getting the A ending is complete bullshit that requires a precise step-by-step checklist.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Alisha on March 18, 2011, 01:25:08 AM
now that i know whats going i was able to "translate" your post. its been so long since i played that game so you are most likely right.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Eusis on March 18, 2011, 02:31:32 AM
At least Valkyrie Profile has consolation in the fact that if you screw it up on, say, a normal playthrough you can try again on hard and half the dungeons will be all new. That made it much more interesting replaying on the PSP!
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Gen Eric Gui on March 18, 2011, 01:20:13 PM
about suikoden 4 if the world isnt flat because thats not were the map ends they should say so in game.

The game quite openly mentions the Scarlet Moon Empire that lies to the north, the lands of Kanakan, and they even mention offhand the Queendom of Falena that would become important in S5.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Giga_Force on March 18, 2011, 01:58:24 PM
VP 1 and 2 are freaking amazing games!!!
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Lard on March 18, 2011, 08:52:42 PM
The story took waay longer than it should have to develop (it's no excuse for a game to be good HOURS in). 

Do you mean the further you go in a game, the more it should suck?
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Dice on March 18, 2011, 11:31:18 PM
The story took waay longer than it should have to develop (it's no excuse for a game to be good HOURS in). 

Do you mean the further you go in a game, the more it should suck?

Huh?  Either I phrased it poorly or you didn't read it right.  I meant something similar to the FF13 bit.  It's "gets good" (as in, you have less than one button to hit) like 5 hours in.  Prologue and tutorial should be no excuse to wait for a *game* to *start* getting good.  That was my one big beef with SuikoV.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Lard on March 18, 2011, 11:58:55 PM
I was being a smartass, sorry.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Dice on March 19, 2011, 12:20:23 AM
I was being a smartass, sorry.

Goddammit man!!!  The internets has NO TONE!!! I didn't know!!!!!
I'm sorry, I'm actually cool in real life....I swear... (aside from the fact I chill on game forum and talk RPGs all nerd-ily)

D:  !!
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Commander Jubby Shepard on March 19, 2011, 12:22:50 AM
I was being a smartass, sorry.

Goddammit man!!!  The internets has NO TONE!!! I didn't know!!!!!

D:  !!

It's okay, I thought he was serious too, Dice.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Alisha on March 19, 2011, 05:14:28 AM
the internet does have tone if you are perceptive but sarcasm is hard to pick up on >_<
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Maxximum on March 19, 2011, 11:03:01 AM
Suikoden is pretty much responsible for getting me into turn based jRPGs, which I didnt care for very much untill I accidently bought S1 thinking it was a Zelda like action RPG. Ended up playing through the whole thing in two or three sittings and its one of the very few games I actually bothered to beat more than once.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Giga_Force on March 22, 2011, 10:27:50 PM
I almost never gave Suikoden a chance. It was in the Fall of 1999, i looked at my friends copy of Suikoden and remember hating the front cover, it was like a bad Mega Man cover. I found a brand new copy at this store "Ames" for $19.99. The best $20 I spent :)
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Akanbe- on March 22, 2011, 10:58:24 PM
I almost never gave Suikoden a chance. It was in the Fall of 1999, i looked at my friends copy of Suikoden and remember hating the front cover, it was like a bad Mega Man cover. I found a brand new copy at this store "Ames" for $19.99. The best $20 I spent :)

I had a friend say the same thing, but instead he never gave it a chance.  He saw a neighborhood kid over at my house years ago (ps2 was almost out and PSX was still relevant at the time) playing Suikoden 1 and thought it looked crappy.  Funny thing is, he started playing RPGs back in the NES days and doesn't generally care about graphics at all.  I kept telling him how good the series was and how highly Suikoden 2 was regarded by a ton of people, but he never would give it a shot. 
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Themadcow on March 23, 2011, 06:39:27 AM
FFVII really shafted Suiko in some respects. No-one wanted sprites after that came out, yet now in 2011 Suiko I and II look brilliant (for their age) and FFVII looks a bit like someone has vomited some polygons.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Giga_Force on March 23, 2011, 02:09:24 PM
Yeah, FF7 looks nasty but I still love the game.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Anime & RPGl and on March 23, 2011, 02:38:33 PM
I really would love to play Suikoden II, as many gamers here at RPGFan have said it is the best of the series. Man I hope we see it on PSN.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Maxximum on March 23, 2011, 05:50:12 PM
Suikoden II manages to carry over the great feel of the original while expanding on the game in many ways. That said, if you want to get everything out of the second one, you really should beat the first with all the stars. This doesnt only give you a better connection with some of the characters and game world, but also unlocks some cool stuff if choose to load in an s1 save when starting a new game.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Alisha on March 23, 2011, 07:16:42 PM
did suikoden II come out before or after valkyrie profile?
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Lard on March 23, 2011, 07:40:53 PM
Before I think, why?
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Alisha on March 23, 2011, 07:45:18 PM
just curious because people sometimes rave about the "awesome" 2d sprites in suikoden II and well you know.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Eusis on March 23, 2011, 08:11:48 PM
A year before, and a large part is undoubtedly narrative impact. VP's better in regards to battle sprites for the most part, but not cutscene ones.

Also people CAN praise and like multiple games and by proxy elements of them! It's not like VP's sprites make SuikII's irrelevant, or that all old 2D games look like crap now that Odin Sphere's out.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Dice on March 23, 2011, 08:57:33 PM
A year before, and a large part is undoubtedly narrative impact. VP's better in regards to battle sprites for the most part, but not cutscene ones.

Also people CAN praise and like multiple games and by proxy elements of them! It's not like VP's sprites make SuikII's irrelevant, or that all old 2D games look like crap now that Odin Sphere's out.

VPs death cutscenes made me sniffle feel something, though.  Those were well played out.
Hard to compare it to the whole of Suikoden.  Plot was better for Suiko for sure, but some of the scenes in VP were really much more memorable.

I agree with the entire second paragraph.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Giga_Force on March 26, 2011, 12:32:52 PM
The death scenes in VP were absolutely amazing.  They were all sad and very well done too.  The narrative in both Suikoden I and II are great.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: beach1 on March 26, 2011, 01:52:35 PM
I think it all boils down to personal taste. To tell you the truth, I think I might prefer Suikoden 2's sprites to Valkryie Profile's since S2's have an old school charm to them that VP's sprites don't, even if they may be technically superior. I also think S2's sprites are more colorful than VP's.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Commander Jubby Shepard on March 26, 2011, 08:30:48 PM
I'm quoting from another forum here, but I think this might be interesting for you guys:

"Okay, let me examine what it would take now to make a great Suikoden game, an innovative one which would be incredibly epic yet probably so expensive to make it'll never see the light of day because it's not Final Fantasy.

Suikoden is at it's heart about playing the thrust upon young leader of an uprising against an aggressive enemy. Previously the series tried to weave this setup (which is perfect for a strategy game really) into a more traditional linear RPG game. But I think they need to make things less linear. Now here, nothing incredibly monumental has to change, other than instituting story branches. it can be done, Bioware's RPGs tend to them well (sometimes) and there shouldn't just be multiple endings but multiple finales.

I of course would keep the 108 stars of destiny concept because it's what Suikoden is all about. You have tonnes of characters to seek in the world and this has always provided the motivation to explore it. Of course, it'd not be an open world game instead of before where you selected locations on the map. The reason for this ties into what I would do to change the major battles of the game.

Before you'd wander around with 6 characters in a party and pretty much go through dungeons. This is of course a symptom of it's traditional RPGness. Not a lot wrong with it but it doesn't really fit into the mold of the story very well. Still, I wouldn't outrightly remove it. But what I would do is to allow you to be able to decide what characters you bring and if you bring any squads of soldiers with you.

Because this is perhaps the most significant change. I would make all three battle systems (large scale combat, small scale combat, and duel) all inter compatible. Before they operated on completely seperate systems with gimmicky rules. But if you merge them all into an open world you essentially have a realistic war RPG. I'd have the combat resemble Kingdom Under Fire. This set up works for all three battle styles quite well. I'd also make war tactics part of the specific options of the game. This was all decided for you before but now I'd have it that if you want to attack the enemy whilst their twiddling their thumbs you can.

Essentially, Suikoden x Dragon Force x Kingdom Under Fire.

It'd be the most manly thing in gaming."

It was from a thread on how you would make game series better.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Sigard on March 26, 2011, 09:39:42 PM
Indeed 3D killed the 8bit music star.

Naturally II is my favorite. II>I>III>V

Many rpgs I feel just don't have that level of story intensity that II had. I honestly can't think of many games that had such twists in turns. (If you do, please recommend me some!) I enjoyed Final Fantasy XIII, for example, yet despite their absolutely futile position throughout the whole game I never once feared for them as I had for Riou and Jowy when they were on the run. I don't know why that is. Maybe I'm getting older.

What I enjoy most from Suikoden though is that characters came first. (Is that a TNT slogan?) Followed by all that other game stuff.

What I'd like to see different...As the protagonist of any of the Suikoden's, I really wish it were in my power to further develop relationships or back-stories based on my party. Sort of like how the current Bioware or Persona games work with building close friendships and putting that level of trust to the test-- BUT characters also need to have relationships with each other and not just the protagonist. (Like Persona, for example. Jubei and Yuki...etc) Having your teammates be close friends or rivals with not just the single protagonist but also the other people in the party... I feel like that's the big challenge for a new Suikoden.

I won't go into gameplay because my feelings are so mixed. :(
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Giga_Force on March 27, 2011, 02:55:15 PM
Is the Suikoden III manga any good?  I'm thinking of buying the first volume to see if I could get into it.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Dice on March 27, 2011, 03:21:16 PM
Is the Suikoden III manga any good?  I'm thinking of buying the first volume to see if I could get into it.

There's no grinding in it... hur hur...
It was okay.  You kinda lose that "interaction" bit that made it so fun to stage plays and all that.  Covering 108+ character isn't easy (especially when it comes to that "emotional" factor, it just get's rushed when you're on a page limit to keep things moving), and definitely something that can't be covered in 13[?] books.  But, it does the job otherwise.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Lard on March 27, 2011, 03:43:08 PM
I think it's only 11 books, but I need to double check - I've found a place to order them :D - I just got lucky with finding #8 in a used bookstore.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Giga_Force on March 27, 2011, 11:48:08 PM
Books-a-Million.com has all of them if i'm not mistaken and they are all new and for less than $10 too!
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Dice on April 01, 2011, 01:55:00 PM
NECLORD <333333
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Giga_Force on April 03, 2011, 02:14:15 PM
Neclord was truly a bad you know what :)
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Themadcow on April 04, 2011, 05:55:24 AM
Neclord was truly a bad you know what :)

And had the best bit of music from the series when you finally take him down in S2. Fact.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=473L99I88n8
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: insertnamehere on April 04, 2011, 07:09:25 AM
I've gotten Suikoden Tactics (without playing 4 yet) and like it so far.
BUT WHAT POSSESSED KONAMI TO INCLUDE A CREEPY (http://gensopedia.duefiumi.com/index.php?title=Chiepoo[/url) LOOKING CAT PERSON WITH THAT NAME?
It makes me think of that kingdom of cats (http://www.creativeuncut.com/gallery-17/sf3-malimar.html) in Spectral Force 3.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Dice on April 04, 2011, 10:08:25 AM
Each title seems to have a unique animal-race.  The Ducks in 3 were my favorite though. =)
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Starmongoose on April 04, 2011, 10:14:48 AM
1) Dogs
2) Bats
3) Ducks
4) Cats
5) Beavers
6) Mongooses
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Themadcow on April 04, 2011, 11:06:25 AM
Aparently, the creator/director of I and II (Yoshitaka Murayama) quit the series because he wanted Badgers in Suiko 3.

Fact.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Starmongoose on April 04, 2011, 11:19:27 AM
Aparently, the creator/director of I and II (Yoshitaka Murayama) quit the series because he wanted Badgers in Suiko 3.

Fact.


If that is true, that sure is silly.

I much prefer ducks.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: insertnamehere on April 04, 2011, 11:43:00 AM
Which one has mongooses?
Tierkreis?
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Starmongoose on April 04, 2011, 11:48:48 AM
Which one has mongooses?
Tierkreis?

I wish. Sorry to get your hopes up, I just made that one up. *Points at username*


Tierkreis had porpoises

EDIT: I haven't been able to play 3 yet, due to it not being released here. So for now Tierkreis actually wins the prize for my favourite "other" race.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Maxximum on April 04, 2011, 01:18:04 PM
Im still amazed they managed to pull off "duck people" without looking too stupid.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Giga_Force on April 04, 2011, 01:54:38 PM
I personally love the duck people in Suikoden III.  Even the theme music.  Why hasn't Neclord been brought back?  He could easily return along with Flik and Viktor.  I love each Suikoden game, they have some kind of charm to them, especially I-III.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Vaporeon on April 04, 2011, 03:37:10 PM
I hope when or if Suikoden VI comes out, that they remember all the continuity. It would be disappointing if we never see the Pesmerga vs Yuber final showdown.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Lard on April 05, 2011, 05:17:06 PM
I hope when or if Suikoden VI comes out, that they remember all the continuity. It would be disappointing if we never see the Pesmerga vs Yuber final showdown.

I've come to accept the fact the series is dead. We're never getting a S6.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Alisha on April 05, 2011, 06:15:53 PM
more suikoden tactics plz.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Dice on April 05, 2011, 06:18:15 PM
I hope when or if Suikoden VI comes out, that they remember all the continuity. It would be disappointing if we never see the Pesmerga vs Yuber final showdown.

I've come to accept the fact the series is dead. We're never getting a S6.

Unless it's a handheld, I don't see the market for it on current gen here (Japan on the other hand... I dunno, how *does* it sell there???)
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Starmongoose on April 05, 2011, 06:19:19 PM
I hope when or if Suikoden VI comes out, that they remember all the continuity. It would be disappointing if we never see the Pesmerga vs Yuber final showdown.

I've come to accept the fact the series is dead. We're never getting a S6.

Unless it's a handheld, I don't see the market for it on current gen here (Japan on the other hand... I dunno, how *does* it sell there???)

I would learn Japanese for Suikoden 6 ;_;
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Commander Jubby Shepard on April 05, 2011, 06:36:19 PM
I'd really like to see Suikoden 1 and 2 on 3DS for some reason. Those games were 2D, right? If so, I think it might be nice to see how 3D layering could be used with sprites for something like this. I know Suikoden is on the PSN, but I don't own the PSP in my life, so I wouldn't have the option of playing it at school...
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Qu on April 06, 2011, 01:25:12 AM
Dont know if u all didnt know this but 3 months back roughly.  Konami asked for ideas IF they did realise another Suikoden title. From i can remeber about it its on there mind but its not on the top of there list of things to do.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Giga_Force on April 06, 2011, 02:37:52 PM
Konami needs to get their heads out of their asses and release a new Gradius.  They canceled the PS3 one :(
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Alisha on April 06, 2011, 03:19:55 PM
Konami needs to get their heads out of their asses and release a new Gradius.  They canceled the PS3 one :(

(http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20080823030156/yugioh/images/thumb/7/77/VictoryViperXX03DR04-EN-SR-UE.png/300px-VictoryViperXX03DR04-EN-SR-UE.png)
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Giga_Force on April 07, 2011, 12:53:49 AM
Vic Viper is awesome!  I personally thought Gradius V was my favorite for two reasons: Sakimoto composed the soundtrack and Treasure made the game :)
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Commander Jubby Shepard on April 26, 2011, 11:08:25 PM
I'm about to start the original Suikoden. Is this one of the ones where a guide is necessary to get anything resembling a good ending?
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Annubis on April 26, 2011, 11:22:35 PM
I recently finished Suikoden 1 & 2 and I'd say YES.
Unless you want to play twice =/
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Themadcow on April 27, 2011, 05:13:25 AM
Depends what you call a good ending. Certainly the ending to 1 is a little downbeat unless you get all 108 stars, but then again I'd argue that a guide ruins the sense of satisfaction you get when you find a new star (hiding behind the back of a house, at a zone you'd probably never visit again, after working out which party mix will recruit them etc etc).

I'd probably say do it without a guide. There is only a couple of characters in S1 that are missable if you don't get them at the right time, unlike (for example) S5 which has loooooaaaddddsss of chars that you need to recruit a specific way and at a specific time.

If you really enjoy it, do it again with a guide.

The halfway house is to check the suikosource site which lists the 'missable' chars and just get the instructions for how not to miss them.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Commander Jubby Shepard on April 27, 2011, 03:18:36 PM
About to start.

/excitement
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Starmongoose on April 27, 2011, 03:25:31 PM
About to start.

/excitement

Good luck, stick with it - it grows on you.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Commander Jubby Shepard on April 27, 2011, 03:34:12 PM
About to start.

/excitement

Good luck, stick with it - it grows on you.

It doesn't appear to be working right...

/extreme sadness
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Starmongoose on April 27, 2011, 03:37:20 PM
About to start.

/excitement

Good luck, stick with it - it grows on you.

It doesn't appear to be working right...


/extreme sadness

Aww...what's wrong?
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Commander Jubby Shepard on April 27, 2011, 03:40:45 PM
Aww...what's wrong?

I think I got a bad copy.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Annubis on April 27, 2011, 07:11:13 PM
Neat ninja edit.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Commander Jubby Shepard on April 27, 2011, 07:12:14 PM
Neat ninja edit.

Still don't see the problem with it, but yes. A bad copy.

Now I need to get it to work or find a new one.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Vaporeon on April 27, 2011, 11:37:41 PM
Neat ninja edit.

Still don't see the problem with it, but yes. A bad copy.

Now I need to get it to work or find a new one.

Do you have a PSP or PS3? It's only 6 bucks on the Playstation network.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Commander Jubby Shepard on April 27, 2011, 11:39:27 PM
Neat ninja edit.

Still don't see the problem with it, but yes. A bad copy.

Now I need to get it to work or find a new one.

Do you have a PSP or PS3? It's only 6 bucks on the Playstation network.

I co-own a PSP, but... The PSN is in... disarray.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: pseudonym on May 07, 2011, 09:19:41 PM
For Suikoden V, I suggest using a guide while you play.  I actually did and was able to get all the stars, but I was still a nervous wreck even following the guide that I'd lose one of the stars in battle or something.  Luckily, that didn't happen.  I highly recommend using this site: http://www.suikosource.com/games/sod.php?pf=S5 (http://www.suikosource.com/games/sod.php?pf=S5).  They even have a walkthrough that will tell you where you need to pick up the stars.

I missed one character in 5 and didn't get the perfect ending. I do think, however, the ending that I did get was more realistic and emotional. But yeah, 5 seems to be the hardest to get all the characters without the help of a guide. Suikoden 1 and 2 were easier with 1 being the easiest.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Akanbe- on May 08, 2011, 07:16:37 PM
For Suikoden V, I suggest using a guide while you play.  I actually did and was able to get all the stars, but I was still a nervous wreck even following the guide that I'd lose one of the stars in battle or something.  Luckily, that didn't happen.  I highly recommend using this site: http://www.suikosource.com/games/sod.php?pf=S5 (http://www.suikosource.com/games/sod.php?pf=S5).  They even have a walkthrough that will tell you where you need to pick up the stars.

I missed one character in 5 and didn't get the perfect ending. I do think, however, the ending that I did get was more realistic and emotional. But yeah, 5 seems to be the hardest to get all the characters without the help of a guide. Suikoden 1 and 2 were easier with 1 being the easiest.

I honestly have no idea how anyone could get all the stars without a guide.  The world is just so big and many of the stars are only available for a limited period of time.  My hats off to anyone who has ever done it without a guide.

I'm pretty sure only a handful of characters can actually die in battle in Suiko5.  That's definitely one less thing to worry about.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Yggdrasil on September 17, 2011, 02:51:25 AM
I've never played or care about this series but this might be good news (http://andriasang.com/comy88/) for some of you.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Eusis on September 17, 2011, 03:37:55 AM
I've never played or care about this series but this might be good news (http://andriasang.com/comy88/) for some of you.

Good news! They're actually making a new Suikoden!

Bad news! It's on a system that's effectively dead in the USA so they probably won't localize it! If it's some Monster Hunter clone that will, in a perverse way, be comforting, but if Konami won't bother bringing new PSP games outside of Japan then I hope they at least bring it over to the Vita.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Ashton on September 17, 2011, 03:43:48 AM
I don't know if I should be happy or HULKING THE FUCK OUT.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Vaporeon on September 17, 2011, 03:57:17 AM
Even though It's not Suikoden VI and we may not get it, I'm just relieved at the moment. The last news on Suikoden we got made it seem the like the series is dead.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Eusis on September 17, 2011, 04:01:30 AM
Even though It's not Suikoden VI and we may not get it, I'm just relieved at the moment. The last news on Suikoden we got made it seem the like the series is dead.

Yeah, plus if they get it on Vita or something our chances would dramatically shoot up unless the system crashes and burns out the gate. That probably depends on how big a problem piracy was and if the dramatically raised graphical quality and gigantic screen brings in those who were blowing off the PSP.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Lard on September 17, 2011, 04:26:22 AM
Good news! They're actually making a new Suikoden!

Given what Konami has done with other series this gen, I'm surprised it's not totally outsourced.

So - is it a mainline story, or this "million worlds" crap that Tierkreis did?
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Eusis on September 17, 2011, 04:32:19 AM
So - is it a mainline story, or this "million worlds" crap that Tierkreis did?

Million worlds thing it looks like, but I can hope they try a different approach to make it likeable in the same way the original games were, or perhaps discovering a new angle that retains the spirit of those games (or just stand out period.) Though I guess if chances are low for localization it may be more of a comfort if it were straight up crap.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Lard on September 17, 2011, 04:33:23 AM
Sigh.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Maxximum on September 17, 2011, 06:25:21 AM
PSP title... Hope they decide to do a PSN version for the PS3, probably not going to happen though.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Eusis on September 17, 2011, 06:59:24 AM
PSP title... Hope they decide to do a PSN version for the PS3, probably not going to happen though.

I'd sooner hope for a Vita port, at this point hoping for a PSN version to play on the PS3 is only SLIGHTLY more plausible than Santa existing. We've gotten, uhhh, 1 Japanese game so far, MGS:PW, that has yet to come out? A few more on XBLA, but Half Minute Hero had the other modes fucked up so forget that.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Maxximum on September 17, 2011, 07:12:38 AM
The Vita is supposed to be backwards compatible with all PSP digital releases, so no worries there. Sadly I don't own a PSP nor do I plan on getting the Vita any time soon after its release.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Eusis on September 17, 2011, 07:23:41 AM
The Vita is supposed to be backwards compatible with all PSP digital releases, so no worries there. Sadly I don't own a PSP nor do I plan on getting the Vita any time soon after its release.

Most releases, not all. And we don't know what does/doesn't qualify yet.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Hathen on September 17, 2011, 07:54:18 AM
It's a multi-universe thing again, as well as looking like either time travel is involved (which would be bad), or it's a multi-generational conflict (which would be good). Really, it seems like the former given that it seems the idea is that a century's worth of history becomes tangled because of the interaction between many worlds.

I really don't understand their aversion to making it take place in the original world since the first 5 games didn't have that many mentions of each other anyway.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Chronix112 on September 17, 2011, 12:10:18 PM
It's a multi-universe thing again, as well as looking like either time travel is involved (which would be bad), or it's a multi-generational conflict (which would be good). Really, it seems like the former given that it seems the idea is that a century's worth of history becomes tangled because of the interaction between many worlds.

I really don't understand their aversion to making it take place in the original world since the first 5 games didn't have that many mentions of each other anyway.
Probably due to the fact that none of the original crew remains, and its most likely the new director/writer of Tierkreis idea. Sad as it I'd rather them have this new continuity/multi-universe bullshit then  completely wrecking the old one, just for the sake of having a new Suikoden.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Aeolus on September 17, 2011, 01:05:04 PM
I've never played or care about this series but this might be good news (http://andriasang.com/comy88/) for some of you.

Good news! They're actually making a new Suikoden!

Bad news! It's on a system that's effectively dead in the USA so they probably won't localize it! If it's some Monster Hunter clone that will, in a perverse way, be comforting, but if Konami won't bother bringing new PSP games outside of Japan then I hope they at least bring it over to the Vita.

Worse news! It's still being made by those Tri-Ace fucks. (http://www.siliconera.com/2011/09/17/new-genso-suikoden-game-announced-for-psp/) At least it doesn't look like it has anything to do with the previous games.

ADMIN HIJACKING: Nipping misinformation in the bud:

Quote
Osamu Komuta, director of Suikoden Tierkreis, is the director of Frontier Gate, but we don’t know if Tri-Ace are developing both games.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Lard on September 17, 2011, 01:56:14 PM
:(
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Eusis on September 17, 2011, 02:56:23 PM
As long as they aren't involved in cutscenes in the ways they can hurt it most (writing, acting) it probably isn't a big deal. Nevermind! I can't believe Aeolus bungled that so badly.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Prime Mover on September 17, 2011, 03:36:46 PM
Um... I enjoyed Tierkreis?
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Zendervai on September 17, 2011, 04:04:54 PM
Tierkreis was good, just not up to the level of the top Suikoden games. It was better than 4 in my opinion, though.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Cyril on September 17, 2011, 04:08:30 PM
Um... I enjoyed Tierkreis?

I did too. It felt very "Suikoden" despite there being some changes to the formula and the world.  They could clean it up a bit and I think it would be just as good, if a bit different, from the older titles.  I'd personally place Tierkreis above Suikoden 4 on my "like" scale, anyway.  I do admit to some sadness as to not seeing Harmonia; I'd compare it to knowing I'm never going to see Lodis in a non-spinoff TO game.

One main problem with Tierkreis that turned people away before they gave it much of a chance was the horribly compressed audio, which (unless something really stupid happens) shouldn't be a problem in a PSP game.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Lard on September 17, 2011, 06:22:12 PM
I really hope it's not Tri-Ace, because I do not want an action RPG battle system for Suikoden.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Giga_Force on September 18, 2011, 12:50:42 PM
Here is my thing, Suikoden I and II are my favorites of the series, I hated III (at first), then I fell in love with the game and done 100% in it.  I was excited to know IV was on it's way and guess what....I loved it.  Most fans of the series despise IV but it's a very good entry in the series and the fast forward feature is funny/cool.  When I heard Suikoden Tactics was on it's way it turned out better than expected. V made me think I was playing the first two again.  Tierkreis was decent.  It's my least favorite of the series but was still very fun.  I hope this entry won't disappoint.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Themadcow on September 19, 2011, 04:46:35 AM
Very mixed reception so far for the news amongst Japanese and US/European fans.

There are three main beefs with Tierkreis:

1) It abandons much/all of the world which the first 5 games created, and the fans loved.
2) It changed too many of the Suiko series staples: 6 man party, spell system, weapon upgrading, millitary battles
3) Sound and graphic quality

Assuming it takes place away from the main series storyline, and that the PSP would provide the improved sfx/gfx the creators would have to add back in at least 2 or 3 of the other main game elements in order for it to be accepted by most of the  the hard core following (in my opinion).

Still, great news in general... as long as it gets a release outside of Japan.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Aeolus on September 19, 2011, 11:01:40 AM
I've never played or care about this series but this might be good news (http://andriasang.com/comy88/) for some of you.

Good news! They're actually making a new Suikoden!

Bad news! It's on a system that's effectively dead in the USA so they probably won't localize it! If it's some Monster Hunter clone that will, in a perverse way, be comforting, but if Konami won't bother bringing new PSP games outside of Japan then I hope they at least bring it over to the Vita.

Worse news! It's still being made by those Tri-Ace fucks. (http://www.siliconera.com/2011/09/17/new-genso-suikoden-game-announced-for-psp/) At least it doesn't look like it has anything to do with the previous games.

ADMIN HIJACKING: Nipping misinformation in the bud:

Quote
Osamu Komuta, director of Suikoden Tierkreis, is the director of Frontier Gate, but we don’t know if Tri-Ace are developing both games.

Oh wow, did I fuck that one badly or what? I guess this is what happens when one gets so disillusioned with the current industry trends that they start making the most pessimistic assumptions.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Themadcow on September 19, 2011, 11:38:08 AM
It's a fairly reasonable assumption after Konami recently announced they had disbanded Team Suikoden and brought in Tri Ace for 'RPG knowhow'.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Maxximum on September 19, 2011, 12:33:46 PM
Glad Tri-Ace aren't in charge, not really a fan of how they do their battle systems. If I had to choose an external developer for Suikoden, Id probably go for Level 5.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Zendervai on September 19, 2011, 12:59:31 PM
If Tri-Ace got Suikoden, it would probably end up something like Radiata Stories.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Eusis on September 19, 2011, 02:22:58 PM
Oh wow, did I fuck that one badly or what? I guess this is what happens when one gets so disillusioned with the current industry trends that they start making the most pessimistic assumptions.

Admittedly I'd only see that as inherently negative if they had command of the story too, but with Tierkreis's director listed there as is it couldn't have been THAT bad.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Der Jermeister on September 19, 2011, 05:51:27 PM
If Tri-Ace got Suikoden, it would probably end up something like Radiata Stories.

I actually think this would be a good thing since RS is one of my favorite RPGs of all time, fuck the haters.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Starmongoose on September 19, 2011, 05:53:55 PM
If Tri-Ace got Suikoden, it would probably end up something like Radiata Stories.

I actually think this would be a good thing since RS is one of my favorite RPGs of all time, fuck the haters.

Why do all your posts end like that? It must be a tough existence to always be fighting an invisible army.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Annubis on September 19, 2011, 06:15:51 PM
I wish tri-Ace could do something as good as Radiata again... it's been a while that all they've done is crap that disappoints me =/
(although I guess Resonance of Fate is debatable.)
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Tartarus on September 19, 2011, 08:23:49 PM
If Tri-Ace got Suikoden, it would probably end up something like Radiata Stories.

I actually think this would be a good thing since RS is one of my favorite RPGs of all time, fuck the haters.

Why do all your posts end like that? It must be a tough existence to always be fighting an invisible army.

Shadow Hearts is my favourite rpg series of all time. Suikoden needs to be Shadow hearts, fuck the haters!

Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Eusis on September 19, 2011, 09:58:36 PM
If Tri-Ace got Suikoden, it would probably end up something like Radiata Stories.

I actually think this would be a good thing since RS is one of my favorite RPGs of all time, fuck the haters.

Why do all your posts end like that? It must be a tough existence to always be fighting an invisible army.

Actually, I've just given him a warning over it. REALLY getting tired of his posts pretty much being that or, in one instance, a racial slur.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Aeolus on September 20, 2011, 12:52:44 AM
I wish tri-Ace could do something as good as Radiata again... it's been a while that all they've done is crap that disappoints me =/
(although I guess Resonance of Fate is debatable.)

I'd argue that Resonance of Fate was the better game despite the fact that both games are one-trick ponies because RoF was ridiculous as hell and it knew it.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Maxximum on September 21, 2011, 05:08:33 PM
As much as Id like to see them bring back the old world, I think its better this way.
Let the new team do its thing, if they can nail the Suikoden feel, then there should be plenty of new characters to get attached to. If they can't, then at the very least they wont be crapping over the original Suikodens.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Lard on September 21, 2011, 05:36:52 PM
As much as Id like to see them bring back the old world, I think its better this way.

No.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Eusis on September 21, 2011, 05:40:53 PM
As much as Id like to see them bring back the old world, I think its better this way.

No.

You'd prefer an inexperienced team crapping all over the main continuity?
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Starmongoose on September 21, 2011, 06:04:08 PM
As much as Id like to see them bring back the old world, I think its better this way.
Let the new team do its thing, if they can nail the Suikoden feel, then there should be plenty of new characters to get attached to. If they can't, then at the very least they wont be crapping over the original Suikodens.

Couldn't agree more. Well put. :)
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Bytor on September 21, 2011, 08:39:11 PM
I've never actually played I, but I just won an EBAY auction for it for $23.00, pretty stoked about that.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Lard on September 21, 2011, 10:07:25 PM
As much as Id like to see them bring back the old world, I think its better this way.

No.

You'd prefer an inexperienced team crapping all over the main continuity?

No, I'd prefer an experienced team continuing it.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Dade on September 22, 2011, 12:15:38 AM
As much as Id like to see them bring back the old world, I think its better this way.

No.

You'd prefer an inexperienced team crapping all over the main continuity?

No, I'd prefer an experienced team continuing it.

Yes, we all want the old team from II or III (or even V IMO) doing the old world, but there have been times where an experienced group works on their baby and still fuck it up. What you want isnt what you're getting, either deal with it or beat it.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Hathen on September 22, 2011, 01:18:18 AM
I'm still not seeing how having it take place in the old world, even with a new team working on it, really matters that much. Usually the problem with having inexperienced people working with a going series is inconsistency of character or core concepts- however, most of the continuity between Suikoden games is setting-wise, and even then there's almost never any overlap. When there is overlap, the amount of information that has already been provided is so scant, it would be almost no different from starting a new project altogether.

There's just something nice about having things added to an existing lore, like finding more of the 27 true runes (Which I serously doubt there's an official list for), or seeing lands only briefly mentioned in small bit parts of the world.

Really, the biggest risks you would run into is them screwing up the continuing stories of Vicki and Jeanne, which...well, feels more like a running joke than something to be taken seriously.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Ashton on September 22, 2011, 01:22:07 AM
I actually have to agree with Lard here.

One of the best things about the original Suikoden series was its focus on a consistent and continuous history of a constant world, showing only certain time periods of each country that made up the world. It was one of the main draws.

Think of it this way, if they made a Mass Effect game that took place in a completely new universe with new aliens, new species, and none of the previous characters, we'd all be pretty pissed off.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Eusis on September 22, 2011, 01:56:14 AM
Think of it this way, if they made a Mass Effect game that took place in a completely new universe with new aliens, new species, and none of the previous characters, we'd all be pretty pissed off.

Actually, after the next game it probably wouldn't be as big of a deal. Suikoden II had hints of a larger plot and III SEEMED to really get into that, yet IV and V decided to go do something else, and then Tierkreis just went away entirely. ME3 would, presumably, wrap up the primary plot, and while it'd be a shame to just straight up reboot at least we wouldn't be left hanging.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Lucid on September 22, 2011, 02:19:07 AM
I'm with Lard/Leyviur. I'd really rather them just drop the series if they're going to make more terrible like Tierkreis. It's essentially shallow re branding at this point.

As previously stated by others, The draw to Suikoden was that it emulated a historical perspective on a world that was developed further with each installment. The character count and castle building was an interesting facet as well, but I didn't see it as quite so integral to what defined the series as the fictional history and setting. I can't really think of any other series to accomplish this, and it's a shame that the brand name is all that's left with a few of the gameplay aspects(though even they are becoming diluted).

It's different but similar in a way to something like Breath of Fire, where the defining component was the Dragon based storyline. The shared world was nice and interesting but not quite as integral to the series definition as in Suikoden. If a new Breath of Fire came along and it was in a new world but retained the Dragon aspect, good. If it was Breath of Fire with a storyline featuring, I don't know, a main character who is a circus fire breather with no mention of Dragons, then it's just shallow brand manipulation.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Ashton on September 22, 2011, 02:26:19 AM
Unlike Lard and Lucid, I like Tierkreis. It was a decent outing and retained enough of the Suikoden feel to be enjoyable, plus with its story structure and lore, it'd be easy to bring it into the main universe.

Still, the topic of the 27 True Runes, how they form the world, and their interactions with each other and humankind was at the core of the series, as well as the struggle between the runes to maintain balance; each of the wars wasn't just a human conflict, it was of the runes, as well. Removing the runes in Tierkreis caused a major void to appear, because of how ingrained the runes are to the Suikoden world. Without it Tierkreis became a generic 'bad guy with evil religion' type of stories. Still good, but lacking in many ways.

Also, there are way too many unanswered questions at this point to just drop everything. Who is Hikussak? Viki/Jeane? Whatever happened with Yuber/Pesmerga? What about the Assassin's Guild? And the stuff about the Circle Rune and how it forces the Sindar to wander endlessly is interesting as well. Gurkh... I'm getting rather annoyed just thinking about it.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Lard on September 22, 2011, 08:02:35 AM
Actually, after the next game it probably wouldn't be as big of a deal. Suikoden II had hints of a larger plot and III SEEMED to really get into that, yet IV and V decided to go do something else, and then Tierkreis just went away entirely. ME3 would, presumably, wrap up the primary plot, and while it'd be a shame to just straight up reboot at least we wouldn't be left hanging.

It's just that we've been left hanging since S3, and there are a lot of mysteries left hanging.

If they had wrapped them up in S4/5 and then decided to do the Tierkreis saga, it wouldn't bug me as much.

Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Chronix112 on September 22, 2011, 01:09:57 PM
Unless they brought back Yoshitaka Murayama, It would most likely be crap.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Maxximum on September 22, 2011, 01:14:31 PM
Indiana Jones 4
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Lard on September 22, 2011, 03:56:48 PM
Unless they brought back Yoshitaka Murayama, It would most likely be crap.

S5 wasn't crap, it just had terrible load times.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Giga_Force on September 23, 2011, 08:42:06 AM
I heard rumors that he was hired by "A certain company", hinting at his return to Konami and possibly working on a new entry to the Suikoden series but nothing has been announced.  Was this BS or what?
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: KC_MCDOHL on September 25, 2011, 09:12:11 AM
Great news about a new Suikoden, though. Although many fans, including myself, fear for the future of the franchise.

I think, what it boils down to, is that its a great sign that the Suikoden series is not dead. A couple of weeks ago, most fans where mourning the loss of the ''Suikoden team'', and then we get this new anouncement. I never once thought that the Suikoden team 'disbanded' announcemnt meant the death of Suikoden. I think most people where making a mountain out of a molehill, plus I had reason to think otherwise due to my correspondences with Konami and the Suikoden creative staff members.

Anyway, the fact of the matter is Konami are in no position to tackle a main series Suikoden at this present moment in time so the fact that they are 'saving it for a better day' shows they still have respect for the series. My only gripe is that, if they are making spin offs, why not set them in the main Suikoden world? I mean, the Suikoden geography is massive and probably couldnt be fully explored even with further main Suikoden installments. There are also an almost inifinte amount of side stories they could elaborate on, or create entirely new ones, without having to jump into the 'Million Worlds' concept to explore. With that said, give me duel battles, major wars and mini games in this new Suikoden and I'll probably be happy enough until Suikoden VI comes along ...providing the story is good, of course.

Teirkries, at the end of the day, was not originaly meant to be a Suikoden. From what I can gather, this new Suikoden perhaps was. So that, in itself, hints that this new Suikoden game should be a major imrpovement when comapred to Tierkries and should definantly have a more Suikoden feel for a start. Also, Konami are well aware of the fans reaction to Teirkries. There really is no excuse for Konami making this a bad game ...even if it is in the same vein as Teirkries.

Heres hoping.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Akanbe- on September 25, 2011, 01:17:21 PM
Great news about a new Suikoden, though. Although many fans, including myself, fear for the future of the franchise.

I think, what it boils down to, is that its a great sign that the Suikoden series is not dead. A couple of weeks ago, most fans where mourning the loss of the ''Suikoden team'', and then we get this new anouncement. I never once thought that the Suikoden team 'disbanded' announcemnt meant the death of Suikoden. I think most people where making a mountain out of a molehill, plus I had reason to think otherwise due to my correspondences with Konami and the Suikoden creative staff members.

Yeah, I have a similar train of thought.  A new group of people could make a new Suikoden with the same world, timeline, etc and it could be good if done right.  The feel probably would be different due to a different team creating it, but if they took the time to research the history and do the thing properly, it could be pretty good.  Sadly, they probably wouldn't.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Maxximum on September 25, 2011, 03:32:50 PM
Great news about a new Suikoden, though. Although many fans, including myself, fear for the future of the franchise.

I think, what it boils down to, is that its a great sign that the Suikoden series is not dead. A couple of weeks ago, most fans where mourning the loss of the ''Suikoden team'', and then we get this new anouncement. I never once thought that the Suikoden team 'disbanded' announcemnt meant the death of Suikoden. I think most people where making a mountain out of a molehill, plus I had reason to think otherwise due to my correspondences with Konami and the Suikoden creative staff members.

I wouldn't be so sure, look at what happened to Silent Hill after Team Silent was disbanded. What followed ware not terrible games, but they didn't come close to the original three.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Giga_Force on September 25, 2011, 03:35:59 PM
Silent Hill 4 was really good.  The damn babies coming out of the wall in your room scared the hell outta me.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Lard on September 25, 2011, 03:59:32 PM

Anyway, the fact of the matter is Konami are in no position to tackle a main series Suikoden at this present moment in time so the fact that they are 'saving it for a better day' shows they still have respect for the series.

If they can't tackle a "main series" Suikoden, why make this one? That makes no sense.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Maxximum on September 25, 2011, 04:07:13 PM
Silent Hill 4 was really good.  The damn babies coming out of the wall in your room scared the hell outta me.

Although it was made by Team Silent, I heard rumours that SH4 was actually an original horror game with "Silent Hill" slapped on last minute to sell more copies.
Would make sense since it was developed alongside SH3 and isn't actually set in Silent Hill. That's why I didn't include it in the "original line" of SH games.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Eusis on September 25, 2011, 04:08:52 PM

Anyway, the fact of the matter is Konami are in no position to tackle a main series Suikoden at this present moment in time so the fact that they are 'saving it for a better day' shows they still have respect for the series.

If they can't tackle a "main series" Suikoden, why make this one? That makes no sense.

The post following yours may well explain it: this could be a policy about using a single series to cover a genre. For example "Suikoden" is their RPG, so even if they have a new world in mind they'll just go and make it a Suikoden game, and any horror game will be a Silent Hill game.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Lard on September 25, 2011, 09:16:08 PM
It's kind of disappointing if that's their policy.

I think Maxximum is right about SH 4 though.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Giga_Force on September 26, 2011, 12:16:35 AM
He is exactly right.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Logick on September 28, 2011, 12:34:46 AM
Word on the grapevine is it won't come out here being psp and all :(
I smell a booming fan translation community coming from this and VC3.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Eusis on September 28, 2011, 01:22:05 AM
Word on the grapevine is it won't come out here being psp and all :(
I smell a booming fan translation community coming from this and VC3.

While it's a bit early it REALLY wouldn't surprise me for Konami to have completely written off localizations of PSP games anyway. This is where it's most frustrating, smaller companies like NISA may do it anyway just because they know their fanbase is there, and those without US branches are even less of an issue so long as it's interesting enough for someone like Xseed to pursue, but if a company like Sega or Konami publishes/develops it, it's likely fucked. Especially since I'm starting to suspect Sega may have become more closed like Nintendo/Namco about licensing stuff out, though it may just have been the last really strong opportunity (7th Dragon) would've been a pain to translate AND convince retailers to stock period.

ON THE OTHER HAND, I do have some hope that if the Vita does well enough there'll be upscaled ports or the game just released on it for here. Hell, it seems all but 100% confirmed Zero no Kiseki will get that treatment with a Vita port that adds VA. Only thing left is for www.zero-full.com to actually work to confirm it outright.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Aeolus on September 28, 2011, 03:48:45 AM
Of course there's no fucking way in hell we're seeing 7th Dragon 2020 out here given the fact that one of its character customization options is different voices which is impossible to localize given the lack of variety in NA VAs.

Although they could try to get away with what Atlus did with Endless Frontier even though the voiced dialog in that game consisted of not a small part of the game's total dialog and had no subtitles to fall back upon.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Akanbe- on October 19, 2011, 04:46:51 PM
Quote
Konami is bringing the Suikoden series back with a brand new game. Genso Suikoden: The Woven Web of a Century takes place in a world where a monster rises every one hundred years and destroys the world. A young lad, sent 100 years from the future by the mysterious Zephon, is given the task to defeat him.

Famitsu magazine revealed both of the hero’s parents are deceased and he is a swordsman from the village of Terube. Jino, his hotheaded childhood friend made the journey through time too. When Myra, Jino’s older sister, isn’t scolding him, she’s the group’s magician. Dukas is a loyal soldier and another one of the game’s main characters.

While Genso Suikoden: Woven Web of a Century is a single player game, Famitsu notes the title has unspecified wireless LAN features.

http://www.siliconera.com/2011/10/19/every-hundred-years-a-monster-rends-the-world-in-psp-suikoden/
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Der Jermeister on October 19, 2011, 06:16:28 PM
I'm disappointed Suikoden has gone the Final Fantasy route in terms of sequels in name only, but I still hope we get this one despite the PSP nearing the end of its life cycle.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Eusis on October 19, 2011, 07:56:17 PM
Quote
Konami is bringing the Suikoden series back with a brand new game. Genso Suikoden: The Woven Web of a Century takes place in a world where a monster rises every one hundred years and destroys the world. A young lad, sent 100 years from the future by the mysterious Zephon, is given the task to defeat him.

Famitsu magazine revealed both of the hero’s parents are deceased and he is a swordsman from the village of Terube. Jino, his hotheaded childhood friend made the journey through time too. When Myra, Jino’s older sister, isn’t scolding him, she’s the group’s magician. Dukas is a loyal soldier and another one of the game’s main characters.

While Genso Suikoden: Woven Web of a Century is a single player game, Famitsu notes the title has unspecified wireless LAN features.

http://www.siliconera.com/2011/10/19/every-hundred-years-a-monster-rends-the-world-in-psp-suikoden/

Not liking the sound of that too much honestly. What helped set Suikoden apart was that it didn't really revolve around some save-the-world scenario, unless it was something overarching the whole setting as 3 showed. Having Tierkreis (allegedly) do that and this ANNOUNCING it right out the gate is kind of disappointing.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Hathen on October 19, 2011, 10:44:33 PM
Yeah, not crazy about the idea either. If they're going to go with this though, I really hope they don't make the main character really grating like Sieg was far too often. They had Sieg constantly miss out on things that were blindingly obvious just for cheap laughs, except all it does is make you wonder why anybody would want someone as simple-minded as him in the leader position. Much better to have a silent Tenkai Star than to have him be an idiot.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Eusis on October 19, 2011, 10:54:16 PM
Yeah, as much as people have cried about silent protagonists it's not uncommon for those that DO get voiced later on to be obnoxious, or at least a new voiced protagonist is. Suik III wasn't bad there though, so that series could easily have dodged that bullet.

Of course, this DOES seem to be showing they're treating Suikoden more as a catch all JRPG brand like Final Fantasy, and not something set in a world that will gradually get better developed over time. Guess I'll instead have to hope the rest of the Trails series get localized somehow as that's looking to be the best alternative now.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Aeolus on October 20, 2011, 01:20:47 AM
Ah, Konami. They wish their JRPGs were like everybody elses....*sigh*
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Dice on October 20, 2011, 01:27:44 AM
Ah, Konami. They wish their JRPGs were like everybody elses....*sigh*

Almost a funny thing to say given the overall high acclaim the 2nd and 3rd title get...

I almost feel like there is a formula for a PERFECT rpg in the Suikoden universe and gameplay style -- but they're good at mucking it up, or at the very least, putting 70% into what they do than the full 100.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Yggdrasil on October 20, 2011, 01:40:33 AM
I have a question: Is true that during the development of Suikoden III the creator of the series (don't remember the name) left the project and the franchise entirely for some problems he had with Konami in those days?

Never played any of this games like I mentioned here before but I was always curious it that was true or not.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Hathen on October 20, 2011, 05:29:01 AM
Yes, he left right before the release of III, but it's not like his presence is a requirement for them to make a good Suikoden game, people just want him back because that's assumedly why they never bothered touching Harmonia after III.

Given how little information it is, it's too early to judge the game of course, but to me it tells me that they don't seem to understand (or they don't care) what the fanbase of the series finds attractive about it when its this specific set of information they choose to release.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Vaporeon on October 20, 2011, 06:09:37 AM
I have a question: Is true that during the development of Suikoden III the creator of the series (don't remember the name) left the project and the franchise entirely for some problems he had with Konami in those days?

That had long been a rumor, but it turns out he had planned from the start to go freelance after 10 years, according to an interview he did in 2009.

http://www.suikosource.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=11716
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Zendervai on October 20, 2011, 11:29:20 AM
Ah, Konami. They wish their JRPGs were like everybody elses....*sigh*

Almost a funny thing to say given the overall high acclaim the 2nd and 3rd title get...

I almost feel like there is a formula for a PERFECT rpg in the Suikoden universe and gameplay style -- but they're good at mucking it up, or at the very least, putting 70% into what they do than the full 100.

At least they aren't taking the Idea Factory/Compile Heart route of jamming as much moe as possible into a game.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Gen Eric Gui on October 20, 2011, 12:09:12 PM
Tierkreis was still a decent game despite all the changes and grumblings, so I'm just going to be happy that there's a new Suikoden game coming out.  Now I just need to hope we actually get it in English somewhere.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Maxximum on October 20, 2011, 03:32:32 PM
Quote
Konami is bringing the Suikoden series back with a brand new game. Genso Suikoden: The Woven Web of a Century takes place in a world where a monster rises every one hundred years and destroys the world. A young lad, sent 100 years from the future by the mysterious Zephon, is given the task to defeat him.

Famitsu magazine revealed both of the hero’s parents are deceased and he is a swordsman from the village of Terube. Jino, his hotheaded childhood friend made the journey through time too. When Myra, Jino’s older sister, isn’t scolding him, she’s the group’s magician. Dukas is a loyal soldier and another one of the game’s main characters.

While Genso Suikoden: Woven Web of a Century is a single player game, Famitsu notes the title has unspecified wireless LAN features.

http://www.siliconera.com/2011/10/19/every-hundred-years-a-monster-rends-the-world-in-psp-suikoden/

OK, That setting does sound pretty awful. Lets see how they go about presenting it. If executed well, even the most cliche setups can turn out well. Still, and I know Im repeating myself here, it does sound pretty awful...
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Starmongoose on October 20, 2011, 03:37:28 PM
My eyes glazed over reading that. It sounds so, so, so very dull.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Lazlowe1984 on October 20, 2011, 03:55:12 PM
My eyes glazed over reading that. It sounds so, so, so very dull.

It sounds like that Cliched RPG we designed a few months ago.I call shenanigans.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Themadcow on October 21, 2011, 05:02:13 AM
Fingers crossed that there's actually some shades of grey to this story because 'kill evil monster' is proper rubbish.

Now, if there was a good reason why this creature is smashing up the world every 100 years (for some kind of ecosystem balance, or to stop a greater devestation happening) then great... but for now it's not looking good.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Hathen on October 21, 2011, 05:22:04 AM
Really, I think it's already at somewhat of a disadvantage, because when you consider how the fantasy elements were used in other Suikoden games (Aside from Tierkreis), they were pretty much always driving forces for the actions of the human conflicts which took center stage, or they were simply used as tools. Here, the fantasy element is just a big bad guy and a ticking clock for the heroes to beat.

The less this creature has to do with the story, the better...but then if that was the case they wouldn't have it in there at all. Bleh.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Aeolus on December 26, 2011, 01:19:46 PM
Bamping this with some new footage featuring gameplay. http://www.siliconera.com/2011/12/25/first-look-at-suikodens-new-battle-system/

Didn't show too much with the gameplay (not enough to determine how much of the old continuity's gameplay they're keeping). But what they did show though looked painfully anime (oh hey there generic regenerating space monsters, you look as boring to fight as you are fucking everywhere).
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Lard on December 26, 2011, 03:30:04 PM
The premise seems interesting but it's just not Suikoden. It's pisses me off they're slapping the name onto this for a few extra sales.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Hathen on December 26, 2011, 03:46:00 PM
It looks like a solid game but I have to agree that it looks very un-Suikoden. Tierkreis still had the elements of what made Suikoden good (well, mostly), but this whole "space monsters from the future" or whatever is not Suikoden at all.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Klyde Chroma on December 27, 2011, 03:42:03 PM
It actually looks real promising to me :)

Suikoden has only failed in one respect for me, and that is simply that not every game could be Suikoden 1 or 2-hahhahaha

I love anime, I love Suikoden..... I imagine I'll probably be able to forgive em for a space-monster or two if the title is as solid as its predecessors, story and style departure aside.....

Truth is I like seeing new and innovative growth in franchises.... I personally believe Final Fantasy has left us all "afraid of what could happen next" with some of our favorite series.... well for me it was Final Fantasy, Secret of Mana and Breath of Fire that made me fearful for the "future" of my favorites...
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Maxximum on December 27, 2011, 03:49:30 PM
They replaced the epic orchestrated openings with jPop. They removed the "shades of grey" political story in a fantasy setting and slapped on a generic anime monster, and yet when I watched the trailer I actually caught myself thinking "maybe I should get a PSP". Just because it looks like a turn based jRPG with Suikoden elements...That's just sad and shows how much I miss the old style of jRPG games.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Ashton on December 28, 2011, 10:34:40 AM
Losing my interest in this game quickly.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Dice on December 28, 2011, 11:11:49 AM
It's Castlevania all over again.

(http://www.cosplayisland.com/files/costumes/1437/48520/CV-Soma1.jpg)

(http://www.toonpool.com/user/2302/files/soma_cruz_306175.jpg)
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Serene Prophet on December 28, 2011, 06:34:05 PM
Id be willing to give it a go, sadly we probably wont see it..so I suppose in the end it does not matter.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Hathen on December 28, 2011, 08:05:12 PM
It's Castlevania all over again.

(http://www.cosplayisland.com/files/costumes/1437/48520/CV-Soma1.jpg)

(http://www.toonpool.com/user/2302/files/soma_cruz_306175.jpg)

It's basically the opposite situation here, Dawn of Sorrow had an art style change, the story and tone were more or less left alone. Suikoden has always been high-quality anime art, which is kept intact here, but the setting and premise seems to be changing entirely. If you ask me, that's a lot worse of a change by comparison.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Aeolus on December 28, 2011, 08:29:42 PM
Changing the setting in of itself isn't all that bad if they truly wanted to reboot the series given all the plot holes and uncertain details surrounding elements like whatever happened to the Sovereign Rune that'll probably never be revisited. However, replacing the old setting with what amounts to an SRW level plot nevermind lacking the mash up of various series to back it up is retarded. To put it in the context of a different videogame series, we've gone from Mega Man X to Mega Man Battle Network.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Themadcow on December 29, 2011, 09:04:54 AM
The couple of seconds of battle shown actually looks OK. Unfortunately the rest looks about as far removed from traditional Suikoden as you could get. Suddenly I'm not that bothered if this gets a release outside of Japan.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Eusis on December 29, 2011, 03:27:23 PM
The couple of seconds of battle shown actually looks OK. Unfortunately the rest looks about as far removed from traditional Suikoden as you could get. Suddenly I'm not that bothered if this gets a release outside of Japan.

Yeah, it's kind of frustrating to see new PSP releases that look appealing since it seems most of the time they're doomed to stay in Japan, more likely with a bigger publisher because they tend to not license out period, but this sounds like a departure from what made Suikoden special. Castlevania and Mega Man X may've been cited, but really this seems more like what happened with Bionic Commando. An interesting, unique platformer changed into a more generic third person shooter, whether or not you liked it it comes off as much less distinctive than the original game(s).
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Maxximum on December 30, 2011, 01:03:28 PM
The battle system looks good form the snippets they showed. As I said, I'm not really too happy about the setting or art style since its about as generic fantasy anime as it gets, but compared to the stuff I have to choose from at the moment, it still looks damn good to me.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: pseudonym on January 07, 2012, 02:35:48 AM
As far as Suikoden style gameplay goes: the battle system seems to be slow like III and not fast like the other ones. For me, that was one of the trademarks of a Suikoden game.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Aeolus on January 10, 2012, 07:20:26 AM
http://www.siliconera.com/2012/01/10/suikoden-lets-players-customize-characters-with-jobs-and-sub-jobs/

Tri-Ace contribution spotted.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: hu-h on January 10, 2012, 08:26:31 AM
The Master/apprentice feature sounds interesting.

I'm still a little unclear on this "will" part though. Is it going to be like action points, where this ability costs so much will?
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Aeolus on January 10, 2012, 11:25:21 AM
The Master/apprentice feature sounds interesting.

I'm still a little unclear on this "will" part though. Is it going to be like action points, where this ability costs so much will?

I have no idea unfortunately. It sounds like they're completely overhauling the entire gameplay of the original series to the point where the only thing similar is the fact that you can fight in parties of 6. I don't know whether the jobs thing is basically there to replace runes or not since I've heard nothing about there being anything rune-like in this setting thus far. The Master/apprentice thing sounds stupid though since it seems like they're mandating the use of characters from both time periods which means that they're probably going to try to focus heavily on the time travel aspects of the plot (and this almost always goes poorly due to the poorly understood nature of time travel shenanigans); that or this is fancy way of saying that half of your party at any given time will consist of plot important characters and the other three will be your choice or they'll consist of plot central characters and the remainders will be split between your choice and those currently relevant to the plot. The closest I can figure with the Will thing is that it'll be another arbitrary means for the game to mandate switching up characters by providing a set limit to the amount of time any given person can spend in the active party.

I could be wrong about most if not all of this but these are the impressions I've gotten about this thus far.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Lard on January 18, 2012, 03:24:26 PM
Interview with Miki Hagashino

http://squareenixmusic.com/features/interviews/mikihigashino.shtml
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Lard on January 24, 2012, 03:53:12 PM
Konami’s Next Suikoden Game Takes Place In The Multiverse, Has Multiple Endings

http://www.siliconera.com/2012/01/24/konamis-next-suikoden-game-takes-place-in-the-multiverse-has-multiple-endings/

Goddamn motherfucking christwhore.

I'd rather Konami let the series die than make shitty knockoff RPGs and slap the Suikoden name on them for a few extra dollars.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Yggdrasil on January 24, 2012, 04:51:27 PM
I'd rather Konami let the series die than make shitty knockoff RPGs and slap the Suikoden name on them for a few extra dollars.

Hey that's is what Konami has been good for in the last few years. Kinda late to complain about it now.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Aeolus on January 24, 2012, 04:59:01 PM
Konami’s Next Suikoden Game Takes Place In The Multiverse, Has Multiple Endings

http://www.siliconera.com/2012/01/24/konamis-next-suikoden-game-takes-place-in-the-multiverse-has-multiple-endings/

Goddamn motherfucking christwhore.

I'd rather Konami let the series die than make shitty knockoff RPGs and slap the Suikoden name on them for a few extra dollars.

Eh. We can continue to pretend that Tierkreis doesn't exist when this one inevitably sucks ass and not be any worse for it. And actually they're doing us a favor by keeping it out of the main series. No need to recon here.

Also, calling it now; most of these endings are going to be variations of either a good end or a bad end where said variations depend on whom the main character ends up romancing at the end.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: VampiricDragon_ on January 27, 2012, 10:37:03 PM
The ds game was better than tactics, 3,4,5

so being the third best suikoden ever is no small feat


This psp game looks incredible. It really could be named suikoden vi if they wanted it too. It has everything
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Lard on January 27, 2012, 10:38:14 PM
The ds game was better than tactics, 3,4,5

That is factually incorrect.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: VampiricDragon_ on January 27, 2012, 10:38:53 PM
that is factually my opinion.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Hathen on January 27, 2012, 11:50:00 PM
I understand being annoyed that Tierkreis didn't exist in the same world as the other games, but saying that it was a poorly-made game, or "not Suikoden" is just plain untrue- the game was clearly well-made even if you didn't like it, and they definitely tried to have the same things people liked about Suikoden in it.

Actually, as far as the DS is concerned, I can't think of a lot of original RPGs better than Tierkreis. DQ9 and Radiant Historia, I guess?

I'm surprised someone would put 3 or 5 behind Tierkreis though. There's no fun skill systems or anything in Tierkreis, and the story in 3 and 5 were better. I'd say Tierkreis had better music overall though (Save a handful of songs in 3 that were amazing).
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: VampiricDragon_ on January 27, 2012, 11:52:59 PM
the ds had so many amazing rpgs its hard for me to count them all.

i just liked tierkreis better i guess
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Lard on January 28, 2012, 03:12:00 PM
I understand being annoyed that Tierkreis didn't exist in the same world as the other games, but saying that it was a poorly-made game, or "not Suikoden" is just plain untrue- the game was clearly well-made even if you didn't like it, and they definitely tried to have the same things people liked about Suikoden in it.

I won't say it's a poorly made game, but I will say it's not Suikoden.

I'm surprised someone would put 3 or 5 behind Tierkreis though. There's no fun skill systems or anything in Tierkreis, and the story in 3 and 5 were better. I'd say Tierkreis had better music overall though (Save a handful of songs in 3 that were amazing).

I refuse to believe it's better than S5 as S5's only real flaw was its loading times. S5 also had the best soundtrack since S2, it's really fantastic. S3's soundtrack is okay, but it's pretty ambient and non-memorable, but its story was fantastic, especially as a payoff to the first two games. There's just no way Tierkreis is above those two games.

Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Ashton on January 28, 2012, 03:25:10 PM
I put Suikoden Tierkreis at the bottom of the Suikoden ladder, tied with 4, as much as I liked it.

It's not Suikoden in the way that it's one shared universe, but it deals with many of the same themes and concepts as Suikoden proper. I think the proper opinion is that it FEELS like Suikoden, but can't truly be considered a main Suikoden game.

Also, Suikoden V was way too easy. When you have to put unfair limitations to yourself (such as not using certain runes or not upgrading weapons) just to have a hearty challenge, it's kind of a problem.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: VampiricDragon_ on January 28, 2012, 03:55:47 PM
I am sick of people saying "its not suikoden"

people dont remember that after 2 every suikoden didnt get the greatest reaction from fans or critics


They tried something new, and quite honestly it worked out for them, which is why we are even getting a new one at all

The one on the psp could rival 1 and 2 as the best ever.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Ashton on January 28, 2012, 04:04:50 PM
People are saying that because it's true. The entire concept of Suikoden is that it takes place in a consistent world with a fully fleshed out history, and making a game out of that continuity undermines the original intent. There's no doubt that Tierkreis has many of the same themes and concepts, as I've said, but even then it can be considered part of the main Suikoden series anyway, because even its name lends credence to the widely accepted notion that it is, at best, a spin off

And it COULD be better, but you don't know. Quit it with your "ZOMG EVERYONE HERE IS WRONG" mentality, please, especially for games that haven't even been released yet. I plan on getting this game but I'm not putting any carts before horses.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: VampiricDragon_ on January 28, 2012, 04:07:21 PM
Just because the concept has changed doesnt mean it isnt suikoden. It means they are taking suikoden and trying to do different things

I didnt say everyone is wrong, I just dont get the hate and venom is all.

Ive pretty much watched all the gameplay footage for the new game, and honestly. Its suikoden VI without them naming it as such. Probably a good thing


Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Ashton on January 28, 2012, 04:08:05 PM
They didn't name it Suikoden VI.

Hence, it is not.

I bet you also watch gameplay footage of games you hate and proclaim about how much you hate them.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: VampiricDragon_ on January 28, 2012, 04:12:40 PM
I basically call it the wink wink suikoden vi. Testing the waters to see if people still crave the series like they did in the old days

"I bet you also watch gameplay footage of games you hate and proclaim about how much you hate them."

usually not before I try them. I try not to be too negative without first hand experience
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Ashton on January 28, 2012, 04:13:40 PM
It is what it is. I don't consider it Suikoden VI any more than I considered Final Fantasy Tactics, Final Fantasy VIII when it was released despite being an awesome game.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: VampiricDragon_ on January 28, 2012, 04:17:52 PM
Well tactics was a sub series with completely different gameplay ie classic turn base vs strategy turn base


suikoden psp,not everything is the same but it isnt a genre change
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Ashton on January 28, 2012, 04:20:43 PM
You're missing the point.

Suikoden PSP is still a subseries despite your objections. The console it's on, the fanbase reaction, hell, even the name marks it as a subseries. I'm a huge Suiko-whore (probably the biggest anywhere) and I consider it a subseries. Can it be good? Yes. Is it a mainline game? No.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: VampiricDragon_ on January 28, 2012, 04:23:28 PM
I agree with you. Its not a main game in title. But I am saying if they wanted it to be, it could be.

Fan reaction is of little importance when it comes to this series because people just complain about it constantly with every entry.


Konami cant win with this fanbase
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Ashton on January 28, 2012, 04:24:34 PM
Fan reaction is only important when it supports your particular viewpoint?
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: VampiricDragon_ on January 28, 2012, 04:26:20 PM
People where complaining, there wasnt enough suikoden. Now some people are complaining a new suikoden is launching but it isnt "vi".

I was just saying fan reaction to suikoden over the years has been somewhat insane


Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Ashton on January 28, 2012, 04:27:04 PM
Fan reaction over the years to EVERYTHING has been insane. That's why they're called fans. You don't get to cherry pick when it comes to that.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: VampiricDragon_ on January 28, 2012, 04:34:47 PM
It depends, some have been slightly more rational. At least from what Ive experienced.

even going back to growlanser, people want anything they can get like suikoden, but when grownalser IV was announced I didnt see a negative comment anywhere.

Really I guess people are just hopeful it will lead to more games, maybe new ones
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Ashton on January 28, 2012, 04:37:30 PM
Growlanser fans whined about Atlus' reveal(s) over and over, even when it was patently obvious what it was. Some of the most humorless people I've ever seen, that lot.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: VampiricDragon_ on January 28, 2012, 04:39:34 PM
That was different. That was more like atlus usa trolling the fans who already had a rough time in 2010. It was like pouring salt on wounds.

You have to understand the context of that whole thing

1) People have wanted more growlanser since workign designs brought it here

2) Fans on the forum requested VI, requested the first game remake and nothing happened. Then the IV remake came out. It was one of the most requested game suggestions.

3) They dont localize much in the way of rpgs in 2010

4) They start this announcement clue thing, 2 weeks later

Everything leads to growlanser IV, they can taste it and smell it

BOOM Gungir. Your telling me you wouldnt a  little upset?
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: kyuusei on January 28, 2012, 04:50:27 PM
The Atlus fans who pay any sort of attention to their product would have realized during the first string of hints Gungnir was also a strong possibility, if not both games. In fact, many of them seemed to realize one or the other possibilities early on.

Even still, the fans had no bloody excuse or even time to get upset. Why? Because the day of the reveal, hell even a couple hours later, they started up the NEXT teaser e-mails. Which started with a G...
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Ashton on January 28, 2012, 04:54:18 PM
Sorry, but with the very real possibility of this next Suikoden not being localized (and me not really minding that), I don't understand how a group of people who (purportedly) like having fun can find fault with a game company having fun with revealing anticipated games.

If you ask me they're just a bunch of whiners who didn't get the exact announcement they wanted at exactly the time they wanted.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: VampiricDragon_ on January 28, 2012, 05:12:19 PM
they didnt take it as having fun  based on what and how it was happening based off years of growlanser neglect
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Ashton on January 28, 2012, 06:19:32 PM
This is why they are the most humorless people I've ever seen.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Eusis on January 28, 2012, 06:22:04 PM
BOOM Gungir. Your telling me you wouldnt a  little upset?

Speaking as someone who followed and even participated some in the reactions to those hints, and wanted Growlanser more... I knew all along it was likely Gungnir or both, because given the hints AND publishing history there was no way Gungnir would be skipped. Fleeting disappointment in that window between Gungnir's reveal and the next hint was worth it just to watch Atlus's mindscrew, and I expected something similar anyway (announce Gungnir, nonchalantly reveal Growlanser IV the next day). Atlus always likes to have fun with their announcements, only the most bitter or humorless of fans can be resentful over this in the end.

Anyways, this has nothing to do with Suikoden and everything to do with the Atlus game announcement thread, so if this MUST continue (and it's probably better it doesn't honestly) take it there.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: VampiricDragon_ on January 28, 2012, 06:47:10 PM
My only point was fan reaction is insane and generally has little influence on companies..............I will continue this in the ff thread for a reason
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Eusis on January 28, 2012, 06:53:17 PM
I will continue this in the ff thread for a reason

But I didn't say drag other threads down with this!
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: VampiricDragon_ on January 28, 2012, 07:33:13 PM
forget the whole thing
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Aeolus on January 28, 2012, 08:13:33 PM
forget the whole thing

We would but you keep posting.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: VampiricDragon_ on January 28, 2012, 10:00:29 PM
lol Im off that topic now
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Dice on January 28, 2012, 10:06:04 PM
lol Im off that topic now

lol!
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Ashton on February 12, 2012, 01:43:03 PM
So I got the latest Suikoden. I"m five hours in and it's not looking good. The music is forgettable, the characters are boring, and the story is ridiculous thus far. I suppose there's the possibility it'll pick up if I play some more, but it's really annoying. The graphics are okay, but it seems like unite attacks are nowhere to be seen; the closest I've seen is having 'linked' partners do a normal attack at the same time.

If you're wondering what the story is about, it's basically a 'every 100 years a special form of monster comes to wreak havoc, this time someone is trying to control them.' There's a plot device called the Dynasty Tree that allows the characters to go 100 years to the past, but it has to be the worst plot device ever. As an example, there's this cutscene depicting the death of an important character early in the story. The characters then use the Dynasty Tree to travel to the past to cause a series of events that prevent said character from dying. Five minutes later the character is alive again. WTF? Any and all plot coherence is thrown out the window.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Aeolus on February 12, 2012, 04:26:40 PM
So it's a Suikoden game trying to be Chrono Trigger but made by Konami and Tri-Ace who are less like the Dream Team and more like the NY Mets. I mean with the combined brain powers behind MGS and SO you're basically guaranteed total plot incoherency from the start.

Also the multiple characters pulling off normal attacks at the same time was something both of the PSX games pulled regularly with no real fanfare involved; and then there were unite attacks and combination rune spells in addition to that.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: KC_MCDOHL on February 15, 2012, 07:05:30 PM

Anyway, the fact of the matter is Konami are in no position to tackle a main series Suikoden at this present moment in time so the fact that they are 'saving it for a better day' shows they still have respect for the series.

If they can't tackle a "main series" Suikoden, why make this one? That makes no sense.

Because Konami are not in a financial position to make a main title Suikoden. Their only hope at present is to make these cheap spin offs and hope to generate enough cash to keep the series alive. The series has never been in the best position and certainly isnt these days. I still say we support this new game, however, by buying it (if released over here of course). Good sales may very well be what gets us a Suikoden VI someday. However, I strongly suggest we make our feelings known to Konami about the future of the Suikoden series.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Aeolus on February 15, 2012, 09:31:31 PM

Anyway, the fact of the matter is Konami are in no position to tackle a main series Suikoden at this present moment in time so the fact that they are 'saving it for a better day' shows they still have respect for the series.

If they can't tackle a "main series" Suikoden, why make this one? That makes no sense.

Because Konami are not in a financial position to make a main title Suikoden. Their only hope at present is to make these cheap spin offs and hope to generate enough cash to keep the series alive. The series has never been in the best position and certainly isnt these days. I still say we support this new game, however, by buying it (if released over here of course). Good sales may very well be what gets us a Suikoden VI someday. However, I strongly suggest we make our feelings known to Konami about the future of the Suikoden series.

Love Plus says otherwise.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Lard on February 15, 2012, 11:04:52 PM
Because Konami are not in a financial position to make a main title Suikoden. Their only hope at present is to make these cheap spin offs and hope to generate enough cash to keep the series alive. The series has never been in the best position and certainly isnt these days. I still say we support this new game, however, by buying it (if released over here of course). Good sales may very well be what gets us a Suikoden VI someday. However, I strongly suggest we make our feelings known to Konami about the future of the Suikoden series.

Judging by their output after Castlevania LOS, they're apparently not in a position to release anything.

Do they even make games any more?
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Eusis on February 15, 2012, 11:31:21 PM
So it's a Suikoden game trying to be Chrono Trigger but made by Konami and Tri-Ace who are less like the Dream Team and more like the NY Mets.

But has it ever actually been said that tri-Ace had a hand in development? This was advertised for FFXIII-2 (and in fact for a second my brain ignored Suikoden and thought this was about THAT) and I know they got tri-Ace for Cross Gate because they "lost their RPG know-how", but they could just as easily have gone "fuck it, we're making one anyway." Nevermind the angle that they DID development work but didn't have anything to do with the scenario and other creative aspects, which could've been left fully to Konami.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Lard on February 15, 2012, 11:38:29 PM

But has it ever actually been said that tri-Ace had a hand in development? This was advertised for FFXIII-2 (and in fact for a second my brain ignored Suikoden and thought this was about THAT) and I know they got tri-Ace for Cross Gate because they "lost their RPG know-how", but they could just as easily have gone "fuck it, we're making one anyway." Nevermind the angle that they DID development work but didn't have anything to do with the scenario and other creative aspects, which could've been left fully to Konami.

I thought they got Tri-Ace for Suikoden specifically, not Cross Gate.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: KC_MCDOHL on May 17, 2012, 08:43:20 PM

Judging by their output after Castlevania LOS, they're apparently not in a position to release anything.

Do they even make games any more?

lol so true, they certainly seem to be in a abit of abad position these days. And bogged down with internal politics, according to my correspondences with them :/
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Maxximum on May 19, 2012, 08:44:31 AM

Judging by their output after Castlevania LOS, they're apparently not in a position to release anything.

Do they even make games any more?

lol so true, they certainly seem to be in a abit of abad position these days. And bogged down with internal politics, according to my correspondences with them :/

"correspondence", man you either got seriously trolled by someone with minimum knowledge of how the internet works or got served from the "can-o-replies". Unless you happen to have some serious backing in the form of running a big enough fan website for anyone to take notice or a wildly popular Youtube channel, then no one in their right mind will talk to you, especially about "internal affairs".

Most of the big publishers and developers are moving on these days. They have their researchers and people who talk abut making profit while pointing to colourful pie-charts and using trendy terms like "synergy".
The only way you'll get a company to take a risk these days is through projects like kickstarter.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Klyde Chroma on May 19, 2012, 12:42:13 PM

Judging by their output after Castlevania LOS, they're apparently not in a position to release anything.

Do they even make games any more?

lol so true, they certainly seem to be in a abit of abad position these days. And bogged down with internal politics, according to my correspondences with them :/



"correspondence", man you either got seriously trolled by someone with minimum knowledge of how the internet works or got served from the "can-o-replies". Unless you happen to have some serious backing in the form of running a big enough fan website for anyone to take notice or a wildly popular Youtube channel, then no one in their right mind will talk to you, especially about "internal affairs".

Most of the big publishers and developers are moving on these days. They have their researchers and people who talk abut making profit while pointing to colourful pie-charts and using trendy terms like "synergy".
The only way you'll get a company to take a risk these days is through projects like kickstarter.

Oooooooo!!! Can you imagine a kickstarter-funded suikoden project? I bet for like 50 grand you can be one the 108 stars of destiny!! LoL
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: KC_MCDOHL on May 29, 2012, 06:57:08 PM

Judging by their output after Castlevania LOS, they're apparently not in a position to release anything.

Do they even make games any more?

lol so true, they certainly seem to be in a abit of abad position these days. And bogged down with internal politics, according to my correspondences with them :/

"correspondence", man you either got seriously trolled by someone with minimum knowledge of how the internet works or got served from the "can-o-replies". Unless you happen to have some serious backing in the form of running a big enough fan website for anyone to take notice or a wildly popular Youtube channel, then no one in their right mind will talk to you, especially about "internal affairs".

Most of the big publishers and developers are moving on these days. They have their researchers and people who talk abut making profit while pointing to colourful pie-charts and using trendy terms like "synergy".
The only way you'll get a company to take a risk these days is through projects like kickstarter.

Um ...actualy neither. I have been speaking to many people at Konami or otherwise, relating to Suikoden, for almost 2 years now and have built up quite a good connection base and gathered much useful information. Im still no where near at the sort of level I would like to be with it all but I guess theres only so much one person can do.

I'm currently trying to gather as many people as possible to reach out to Konami, using similar methods, in order to help Konami and Suikoden steer things back on track.

There is a dedicated forum for this here:

http://www.suikosource.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=12219

As well as your seemingly original Kickstarter idea, here:

http://www.suikosource.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=12812
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Lard on May 29, 2012, 11:32:22 PM
A kickstarter will never work.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: KC_MCDOHL on August 01, 2012, 10:19:11 PM
Never say never ;)
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Ashton on August 01, 2012, 10:22:32 PM
Lard is right though.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Eusis on August 01, 2012, 10:38:16 PM
Never say never ;)

WHY DID YOU BUMP TWO SUIKODEN TOPICS
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Agent D. on August 02, 2012, 01:05:57 AM
I don't get the Suikoden appreciation. I played through 2 and most of 3, and felt neither was a very strong title given the large amount of old rpgs still out there. The large amount of throw away characters who were impressive in battles always annoyed me. Add to that the music, which in both games there was only 1 track I can remember offhand being tolerable...I never got behind the suikoden bandwagon. Konami has a few franchises that I much prefer to see being cared for over this franchise, so the dissolved suikoden team has no real impact on me.

Now if only Atlus would dissolve its persona team, then we'd be talking business.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Dice on August 02, 2012, 10:57:18 AM
Why the fuck isn't Suiko II on PSN??  Is it on Euro PSN at least?? =/
2 and 3 are the only ones I really cared about. Was 1 any good?

But anyways, Japanese developers can't blah blah blah, their quality has gone down and blah blah blah. We'll see where they are in 10 years.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Annubis on August 02, 2012, 01:38:29 PM
I'd say 1 is nearly as good as 2.
There aren't that many differences between the two of them, but in general the characters and the system are better refined in the later.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Maxximum on August 02, 2012, 04:26:09 PM
I don't get the Suikoden appreciation. I played through 2 and most of 3, and felt neither was a very strong title given the large amount of old rpgs still out there. The large amount of throw away characters who were impressive in battles always annoyed me. Add to that the music, which in both games there was only 1 track I can remember offhand being tolerable...I never got behind the suikoden bandwagon. Konami has a few franchises that I much prefer to see being cared for over this franchise, so the dissolved suikoden team has no real impact on me.

Now if only Atlus would dissolve its persona team, then we'd be talking business.

So you consider Suikoden to be an overrated and mediocre series with bad music, but think SaGa Frontier 1 was a fantastic game?
To each his own I suppose, and you're perfectly entitled to your opinion...but dude, REALLY?

As for the Suikoden team being disbanded. I suppose its better to have the series end on V rather than produce a terrible next gen game like FF did. When jRPGs go full circle and "retro style turn based jRPGs with an overworld" become trendy in mainstream games again, that's when I want to see a new entry.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Agent D. on August 02, 2012, 06:16:36 PM
Saga frontier offered better music, a battle system with some flair, and a the same 50 characters that had no impact on story but were just plain badass (Lei-Fang, Liza, and Rouge for example, Gen had SOME story with T260-G). Suikoden 3 I remember Chris and the guy Geddoe I think, and the kid who's mother was a villian in part 2 were the main characters, and something about the true fire rune. 2 I remember the main character had tonfa, and his sister was annoying, and his best bud became a super dick. I played 2 less than a year ago, and I really remember nothing about it, other than the final boss pissing me off for a while, then I power leveled and came back and dominated it.

Basically, I don't like suikoden. Its battle system is boring and the music is terrible. The story is probably good, but forgettable, though I won't fault it for this, only a few games really stick in my head anymore these days. I will say outright I liked Saga Frontier much more than Suikoden as a series.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Yggdrasil on August 02, 2012, 07:13:04 PM
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=32530541&postcount=22

That translation.

Grrrrrrr!!!!.......
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Eusis on August 02, 2012, 07:46:52 PM
It's also why SCEA's policies are really, REALLY fucking frustrating. If they want to release something and I want to buy it, and there's nothing particularly problematic with it legally or otherwise then just let them release the damn game, especially if it's rare and extremely expensive in its original form. Having Suik I & II come here would've been a great opportunity for Konami to at least polish the localization some and axe the bugs, and instead all we're left with is a buggy, badly translated and overly rare/expensive copy.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: DPB on August 02, 2012, 08:06:16 PM
The PAL version already has all those things fixed, including the script. There's no real excuse for them not to release it.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Eusis on August 02, 2012, 08:16:47 PM
The PAL version already has all those things fixed, including the script. There's no real excuse for them not to release it.

There could be issues with SCEA wanting the EXACT VERSION that was released in that territory. And given the Mickey Mania idiocy they may well be tighter than even Nintendo on that front, where previously PAL-exclusive games got converted over to NTSC.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Dice on August 02, 2012, 11:40:33 PM
Can the esteemed RPGFan write up a petition?? :D
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Eusis on August 03, 2012, 12:02:26 AM
Can the esteemed RPGFan write up a petition?? :D

None of us are stupid enough to think that will work anymore. Or so I'd hope.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Dice on August 03, 2012, 12:19:11 AM
Can the esteemed RPGFan write up a petition?? :D

None of us are stupid enough to think that will work anymore. Or so I'd hope.

I keep an unfortunately optimistic head about things.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Maxximum on August 06, 2012, 10:14:09 AM
I'm kind of curious why the selection of classic games on the PSN is so small. There must be some rather interesting reason for not shoving everything you can on there. After all, its potential revenue from reselling old games with, what I assume is, minimum effort.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Klyde Chroma on August 06, 2012, 04:17:57 PM
I'm kind of curious why the selection of classic games on the PSN is so small. There must be some rather interesting reason for not shoving everything you can on there. After all, its potential revenue from reselling old games with, what I assume is, minimum effort.

I've always had a hunch that the ultimate plan was to hold off on select titles they knew were gonna be hits and make them exclusively available to the next gen consoles somehow whilst making all the previous titles still available as well. Always seemed like a solid strategy to make sure they get us for every dime we are worth..LoL.... ok... so that is more diabolical than funny.... but none-the-less I can totally see them doing that.. I mean, I imagine when the next gen consoles do become available, they are going to want to make it as advantageous to upgrade as possible.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Maxximum on August 06, 2012, 04:47:06 PM
I'm kind of curious why the selection of classic games on the PSN is so small. There must be some rather interesting reason for not shoving everything you can on there. After all, its potential revenue from reselling old games with, what I assume is, minimum effort.

I've always had a hunch that the ultimate plan was to hold off on select titles they knew were gonna be hits and make them exclusively available to the next gen consoles somehow whilst making all the previous titles still available as well. Always seemed like a solid strategy to make sure they get us for every dime we are worth..LoL.... ok... so that is more diabolical than funny.... but none-the-less I can totally see them doing that.. I mean, I imagine when the next gen consoles do become available, they are going to want to make it as advantageous to upgrade as possible.

While I can see what you're getting at, I don't think that's quite it. My guess is that its something fairly obvious, but elusive enough not to get noticed by someone that isn't in the industry. I'm also guessing that its probably something incredibly stupid from a consumer point of view.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Aeolus on August 06, 2012, 07:22:15 PM
I'm kind of curious why the selection of classic games on the PSN is so small. There must be some rather interesting reason for not shoving everything you can on there. After all, its potential revenue from reselling old games with, what I assume is, minimum effort.

I've always had a hunch that the ultimate plan was to hold off on select titles they knew were gonna be hits and make them exclusively available to the next gen consoles somehow whilst making all the previous titles still available as well. Always seemed like a solid strategy to make sure they get us for every dime we are worth..LoL.... ok... so that is more diabolical than funny.... but none-the-less I can totally see them doing that.. I mean, I imagine when the next gen consoles do become available, they are going to want to make it as advantageous to upgrade as possible.

While I can see what you're getting at, I don't think that's quite it. My guess is that its something fairly obvious, but elusive enough not to get noticed by someone that isn't in the industry. I'm also guessing that its probably something incredibly stupid from a consumer point of view.

They probably lost the license to a number of those old games. And then there's the probability that they don't want to bother resubmitting them to ratings boards for concerns of costs.

/theorycrafting
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Lard on July 12, 2013, 07:58:18 PM
So Kotaku had a Suikoden day on their site yesterday.

I was reading the topic on Gaf and this tweet came up.

https://twitter.com/Konami/status/355809401145266178

I seriously have my doubts that Konami will do anything, but the fact they responded at all gives me pause.

Even if it's just an HD collection of the old games, I'd be happy.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Aeolus on July 12, 2013, 09:10:25 PM
I'd love to see them remake Suikoden 2. That game was a buggy PoS.


Oh yeah, before I forget again, Suikogaiden volume 1 has been fan translated (http://ramsus-kun.webs.com/Suikogaiden/Home.htm) and volume 2 is supposedly on the way.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Hathen on July 13, 2013, 05:37:20 AM
They best not waste their time bringing that PSP Suikoden over (Unless they mean the 1+2 game), because it was pretty awful.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Giga_Force on July 14, 2013, 12:23:39 AM
They best not waste their time bringing that PSP Suikoden over (Unless they mean the 1+2 game), because it was pretty awful.

How was it awful?  Did it have bad loading?
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Zendervai on July 14, 2013, 11:24:01 AM
They best not waste their time bringing that PSP Suikoden over (Unless they mean the 1+2 game), because it was pretty awful.

How was it awful?  Did it have bad loading?

It had nothing to do with the rest of the franchise.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Der Jermeister on July 14, 2013, 07:47:41 PM
I think the main reason the Suikoden series went in the direction it went in with Tierkreis and Centennial Tapestry was largely because the creators flat out lost interest in the series that actually took place in the same universe and wanted to try something new. I know IV and Tactics get bad rap, but I personally felt Tierkreis to be the worse game. A shame, since Suikoden was one of few RPG series I actually played for the story.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Eusis on July 14, 2013, 08:04:17 PM
Their official reason was that they didn't want to alienate newer players as I recall.

And this is why for now Kiseki's the best shot at a Japanese RPG series that actually has world continuity. And one of the reasons it's frustrating that it's practically stuck in Japanese, even the best case scenarios entail either years of waiting or learning Japanese, and learning Japanese to a level to reasonably play the series is almost certainly the more expedient path.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Lard on July 14, 2013, 08:31:14 PM
They best not waste their time bringing that PSP Suikoden over (Unless they mean the 1+2 game), because it was pretty awful.

How was it awful?  Did it have bad loading?

It had nothing to do with the rest of the franchise.

Neither the PSP game nor Tierkries had anything to do with the series. They made a new RPG and slapped a couple of token gameplay elements and the Suikoden name on it for a bit of extra sales, which is frustrating.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Yggdrasil on July 14, 2013, 08:44:45 PM
^That's kinda what happened with Silent Hill.

And honestly, given how badly Konami handle their own stuff I wouldn't be terribly excited for Suikoden VI if they don't give the project to a competent studio.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Raziel on July 14, 2013, 08:56:57 PM
^That's kinda what happened with Silent Hill.

You mean the Vita title?
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Yggdrasil on July 14, 2013, 09:30:00 PM
You mean the Vita title?

The entire series more or less.

After SH3 much of the original team wasn't involved in any future projects and because of that Konami took charge of the franchise, which end up in them giving the IP to less than stellar studios and publishing a bunch of random horror games that didn't had anything to do with Silent Hill.

The case of Suikoden is a bit different since Konami has always been in charge of the series but I think that the problem is that they don't have a team of people that can go make a good RPG and I don't think Konami sees Suikoden like a profitable series anymore... even though they know there's still fans waiting for something. Anything.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Lard on July 14, 2013, 10:21:31 PM
Yeah, Silent Hill 4 was apparently shoehorned into a SH game.

As for Suikoden, had Murayama come back, things might have been different.

Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Hathen on July 15, 2013, 11:52:39 AM
At least Tierkreis still felt enough like a Suikoden game because it was still about a band of ragtag commoners that get drawn into a larger conflict. The thing I disliked the most about it was the villain, they just weren't interesting.

Hyakunen was crappy because it was a "monsters blowing up the world" story and had almost nothing to do with Suikoden, gameplay or universe wise. At least Tierkreis had 108 stars and still had several gameplay elements. Lard constantly complains about how it was just thrown together or whatever even though he never played the game, but Tierkreis was undeniably still a Suikoden game, even if you want to say you don't like it.

Both games still fit into the Suikoden universe in the sense that they introduced the concept of the Infinity in like, the third game, but it's a pretty flimsy excuse anyway.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Raziel on July 15, 2013, 12:32:08 PM
You mean the Vita title?

The entire series more or less.

After SH3 much of the original team wasn't involved in any future projects and because of that Konami took charge of the franchise, which end up in them giving the IP to less than stellar studios and publishing a bunch of random horror games that didn't had anything to do with Silent Hill.

The case of Suikoden is a bit different since Konami has always been in charge of the series but I think that the problem is that they don't have a team of people that can go make a good RPG and I don't think Konami sees Suikoden like a profitable series anymore... even though they know there's still fans waiting for something. Anything.

There was never a consistent creative team behind Silent Hill. The mastermind behind Silent Hill left after the first game. Takayoshi Sato, who had actually a larger role in the second game than just designing CG, left after the second and so on. Silent Hill 4 wasn't exactly shoehorned from some original concept into a Silent Hill title. It was intended to always be part of Silent Hill.

I can sort of see why people would agree after the game was handed down to Western developers, but it's ridiculous to say that they are Silent Hill entries only in their name. If anything, they clinged too hard to please the fans and rerolled SH2 over and over. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean they're not proper Silent Hill games. Proper was already thrown out of the room when SH4 came out, because it didn't directly take place in Silent Hill, although its mythos is tied to it.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Giga_Force on July 15, 2013, 02:39:42 PM
The last SH in my eyes was SH4. Konami should stop with this series as it continues to get worse.  Silent Hill 1-4 are the only ones that count.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Yggdrasil on July 15, 2013, 06:41:21 PM
@Raziel: Yeah, yeah... I know about all that mess.

And honestly I don't care about Silent Hill at this point but I value what it did for the genre.

I can sort of see why people would agree after the game was handed down to Western developers, but it's ridiculous to say that they are Silent Hill entries only in their name. If anything, they clinged too hard to please the fans and rerolled SH2 over and over. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean they're not proper Silent Hill games. Proper was already thrown out of the room when SH4 came out, because it didn't directly take place in Silent Hill, although its mythos is tied to it.

Canon was not thrown out of the window on SH4, the story there focus on the 2nd most important aspect of the series; The cult (and so did SH3 in retrospective).

Silent Hill Origins and anything after it takes place in The Twilight Zone.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Giga_Force on July 16, 2013, 12:41:17 AM
Actually, the cult IS the main focus of the series. It's was prominently discussed in some notes in SH2 in the hotel towards the end, and obviously it was the main plot on 1 and 3.  SH4 forcused on the Wish House and it's members. So, in a sense, all four games are somewhat connected on the cult. I hope Kojima Productions will tackle the series next because some of the Team Silent members are working under Kojima-san.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Marshmallow on July 20, 2013, 02:06:25 PM
Seeing any postings about Suikoden just make me feel sad and kind of nostalgic now. I even went on Suikosource a few weeks ago and was surprised that they had some new content up, but at this point I'd be less surprised by a FFVII remake than I would be if I heard Suikoden was coming back.

Which is really depressing.
Title: Re: Suikoden Topic
Post by: Giga_Force on July 20, 2013, 03:08:24 PM
I remember being hyped years ago when I read that Yoshitaka Murayama might return to Konami to write the story for a new Suikoden, but then I found out what happened....