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RPGFan Community Quiz!
Subject: Persona 3: FES
Prize: $20 eShop, PSN or Steam code
Date: 3rd October 2014 Time: 16:00 EST
331938 Posts in 13594 Topics by 2191 Members
Latest Member: Zaltys
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3511  Media / Single-Player RPGs / Re: Google Maps's April Fools joke on: April 01, 2012, 04:55:00 PM
So do we put other RPG related April Fools jokes in here? Because this just caught my eye.

(Admittedly I laughed harder at this before I remembered what day it was.)
3512  Media / Single-Player RPGs / Re: Is Zelda Skyward Sword really the best Zelda game ever? on: April 01, 2012, 08:58:53 AM
Quote
In the Original you had a total of 16 hearts and outside of random heart drops or the occasional fairy only up to two doses of potion to bring that back during a dungeon run.

Zelda 1 was the only one that was actually challenging in terms of combat, though, and placed a lot of emphasis on like, being able to navigate the rooms. Part of this was because you were more limited in terms of health, like you said, but also you just had a much smaller attack radius. I mean look you could attack in one direction. That was it. In the LttP-style games, your sword swing has a lot of reach and you get spin attacks, and the 3D Zeldas have z-targeting.

The things you mentioned about LttP, though, specifically get at why it bugged me so much.

1) Dark World enemies. Yeah, they do a lot more damage. But they aren't really behaving any more /interestingly/ than their light world equivalents. They just hurt a lot more when they get a hit in. Which really isn't that fun to me because in Zelda 1, the enemies behaved differently and took a degree of strategy to manage, whereas in LttP it gets overly reflexy in a game that doesn't really have controls that are conducive to that.

2) I thought that a lot of the optional overworld items were just outright obtuse to get.

3) There was kind of an issue I had with LttP that was addressed a lot in the GBC games but was weirdly absent in the rest of the series -- a lot of the items you found weren't that useful on the map itself, which sort of made exploration less fun. The overworlds in the GBC zeldas were like these big lovely dungeons in their own right.

Anyway, Wind Waker was odd in that, at least one one level, it was one of the most open Zeldas. AFTER the awkward stealth bit, you really can sale to a fucklot of places (whether you have the patience for this is arguable, mind). There's just not much to find though. A bunch of generic floating orc platforms with... nothing. There's not even an interesting collectible sidequest. I LIKED finding skulltulas and gold bugs in OoT in TP. WW had butterfly medallions that didn't seem to serve a purpose?

(I thought that Ultima 8 was actually rather good zelda-like game with rather good exploration but everyone hates Ultima 8 so whatever).

That too was another issue that had become an increasing problem throughout the series. Link's ever evolving moveset continuously altered the balance of a given game's challenge. In the original, outside of sword beams at full health all you had was a simple stab covering one title's length in front of you. Granted the difference between having sword beams and not having them was night and day but no game since has ever given you a true equivalent (the GB/C games comes closest but no game freely gives you sword beams out of the gate with no strings attached beyond the full health requirement with the same effectiveness that Zelda1's beams have).

I felt that ALttP made a fair compromise that was hindered only by questionable enemy disbursement. After all, it makes sense that you can slash with a sword and not just stab with it. At least sword beams in that game were so heavily nerfed that at times it was almost preferable to not have it on (like when you go in for a swipe with your sword but the beam registers the hit first which hits for probably significantly less damage by that point).

But to me, it was when Z-Targeting came around that the Zelda series lost a significant amount of challenge since once you locked on you were effectively in control of the fight unless something could bypass your shield (and little could). It's only been recently that the matter has been addressed with the shield's heavy nerfing (requires an active item slot and active use in the GB/C/A games, some attacks can temporarily break your guard in TP, and now with shield durability in addition to the other two SS).

Besides nothing was as ridiculous as WW's sense move that basically gave you a powerful defense bypassing counterattack with almost no guard or punish for it. Great spin was a bit too situational but that sense move made even the toughest enemies into minor speed bumps at best and I don't think anything before or since was as broken as that was.

As for your followup points, I thought that....

1) There were quite a few enemies that were difficult or impossible to deal with using just the sword alone. Of course almost all of these enemies could be dealt with by using other items that would typically one shot them (Dark Fairies, Gibdos, Chu-chus, Gelzaps, Red Cyclops, Goryias, those green penguin guys from level 5, ect...). Additionally most of the more interesting enemies were hiding out in dungeons (although Lionels could've existed for more than two screens).

2) Admittedly I liked and still like the idea of having important items kinda sitting off to the side ready to be obtained at your convenience rather than being handed an item or the means to get an item because now is the time for you to have that item and you can't go any further without it. And between the hints provided by NPCs and being prominent points of interest along your path, only the Magic Cape, the Cane of Bryna, and Bottle#3 were actually obtuse to locate.

3) Basically see #2. To a certain extent having portions of the map inaccessible to you from the start isn't the problem per say (hell even the original locked you out of some stuff in the beginning), but that having only a tiny piece open at the start with the other parts unlocked bit by bit can be really annoying if done poorly. LA is probably the only one that get away with this since there's enough unlocked early enough that reaching later dungeons simply means heading to one of the few remaining unexplored corners and filling it in (i.e. you can have most of the map explored by the time you enter level 5). Plus I find it annoying to have to crack open my inventory every other screen to put on some bracelets to lift a rock out of the way. (kinda like having to stop and either strap on or slip off some boots depending on whether you want to sink or swim).


i wonder if nintendo cares about some fans abandoning the series due to motion controls. it wasnt a big deal with TP since i had the choice of the gc version. do console makers have something to gain if they can get core gamers to accept motion controls?
Unique gameplay? You MIGHT be able to replicate this on a controller with clickable sticks (clicking being thrusting) and sacrificing camera control on the right stick, but this isn't like TP where it's literally mapping button functions to shaking a controller. Plus frankly this is A LOT more friendly to traditional types of gameplay than pure Kinect or touch screen controls, here you can reasonably mix it to varying degrees since usually aiming IS a lot better on a Wii Remote than an analog stick.

With that said Zelda's got bigger issues than how you control the game, it's been frequently argued that the Motion Plus additions are the ONLY really good thing Skyward Sword did gameplay-wise.

This post hits upon one of my biggest beefs with the current gaming community, the complete and utter fear and loathing of change. I feel that if we had gone with 20 years of Atari joysticks before somebody came along and introduced the D-pad people would be flipping their shit just like they are over any instance of waggle.

It takes time, experimentation, and refinements to find the best ways to integrate new methods of control and game design. Take 3D games, they weren't automatically good over night. It took many attempts and the better part of an entire console generation before a fluid and effective gameplay experience was finally achieved. Same with utilizing multiple screens for a single game as well as touch screen interfaces. Many have since seen the benefits of multiple screens segregating obtrusive UI from the gameplay field as well as providing instantaneous access to previously buried functions, and iOS games wouldn't even be possible if it weren't for touch screen interface compensating for a devoted control interface which doesn't play well with standard phone interfaces.

I feel that the potential is there and we're just now beginning to see it beyond FPS applications. As for SS and Zelda in general; I'm letting this pass as it's obvious that the greatest amount of effort went into making the game playable. It'll be the next mainline Zelda that makes or breaks my interest since it should, in theory, be focusing on refinement rather than innovation.
3513  The Rest / General Discussions / Re: Random and Amazing Pictures, Please! on: March 31, 2012, 08:32:12 PM


Perfect.

I wonder what the femshep version would look like?
3514  Media / Single-Player RPGs / Re: Google Maps's April Fools joke on: March 31, 2012, 05:31:39 PM
At first I thought they just took the map from Dragon Quest III and added a bunch of location names, but then I noticed that northern Asia wasn't covered in mountains and the starting continent is missing as well.

Bravo Google. Bravo.
3515  Media / Single-Player RPGs / Re: Monster World Collection coming to XBLA (and PSN?). Rumor: SoA/Shenmue PSN/XBLA on: March 31, 2012, 04:57:19 PM
What a coincidence, it has all the Monster World games I'm missing. Now I'm ghlad I didn't pick them up on the VC. =)

Incidentally there had been talks about bringing MWIV to the VC but like everything else with the VC it too has seemed to fallen off the radar. Virtual Console: Wasted opportunity and you.
3516  The Rest / General Discussions / Re: The NEW Game Journal on: March 31, 2012, 04:52:21 PM
After learning that the color coded box conveyer belt puzzle stage was by far and away the worst part of the game instead of being the portent of things to come, I've decided to pick up Metal Gear: Ghost Babel again. And sure as shit I'm now past the Helicopter boss several stages later. Maybe I'll get this one done yet.
3517  Media / Single-Player RPGs / Re: The Suikoden games (opinion thread) on: March 31, 2012, 10:38:46 AM
It's executed well simply because the developers never glorified the war or took a stupid way out, unlike most other JRPGs, where you have this war but then both sides stop and join together to combat a bigger, supernatural threat.

That another point to the series credit as well. Outside of the occasional True Rune bullshit nobody's this supernatural DBZ reject that most JRPGs tend to both have and make your team into. It's basically just a bunch of people banding a nation together to kick ass on whatever whatever warmonger is stirring trouble at the moment.

Hell, even eliminating the main antagonist isn't always enough to wrap up a conflict. Often times you'll just have some other asshole roll up and take over at that point and it isn't until you win the war that the conflict is resolved.
3518  Media / Single-Player RPGs / Re: The Suikoden games (opinion thread) on: March 31, 2012, 03:37:08 AM
We do happen to have a Suikoden general discussion thread here. But I guess it's probably full of spoilers so I'll bite.

That said, the biggest reason why people are fans of these games is the fact that they are were all in one world with noteworthy events from previous games having an effect in later games or having characters from one game show up in another. The first game is basically just that. It came up with the idea of having you assemble a team out of 108 different characters and implemented it in a way that actually worked. Meanwhile the plot was basically limited to the scope of a kingdom in the midst of political turmoil and was very loosely based (or more likely heavily inspired by) on the themes and setting of the classic Chinese novel of the same name. The game itself is fairly straight forward and was a breath of fresh air compared to it's contemporaries. The second game basically takes what Suki1 started and ran with it. Now you had a much more structured plot, more effort put into the characters (with returning characters carrying ever greater weight for those who were familiar with the previous game), and more options and things to do beyond the main story (from growing a garden, to raising livestock, and from pursing a criminal, to competing in Iron Chef style cookoffs). Though unfortunately the game was plagued with bugs and a weak translation plus the war battles were awful games of chance rather than the rock/paper/scissors affair that the first game employed. The third game unfortunately was both where the series tries to make the transition to 3D with passable results and more damning a couple of major changes to the gameplay system that generally made things worse than better. Most noticeable was the change from having six individual party members comprising your battle party you had three sets of two as well as having battles take place in a Lunar style battle arena where your party members are tripping over each other and getting in each other's way and most area of effect attack rune magic (i.e. Fire Magic) suffer from friendly fire. Meanwhile skills were also introduced to expand character's reporte but it also meant having to grind everybody you wanted to use to acquire the skills you needed to remain competent. Also the game threw a metric fuck ton of unwinnable fights in your general direction. The "Trinity Sight" system lead to not only a fairly irrelevant Tenkai star but a rather late home castle, and ironically enough a terrible choice in who you wanted to nerf with main character status since the game's True Rune sucks and none of the three candidates want anything to do with it. Also this was the game where the series director/main writer left leaving only his notes on how things are supposed to go behind. I haven't played 4, Tactics, or 5 yet.
3519  The Rest / General Discussions / Re: The NEW Game Journal on: March 30, 2012, 05:36:06 AM
also I've come to terms with retiring Children of Mana so everyone could ignore my plea from the above post to help me justify that decision...... LoL....

lastly I've been affording some time to the 1 and only non-rpg series that has interested me in my many moons of gaming... Mega Man! Well..... Megaman  Zero to be more accurate.... not as cool as remember em though.... not sure if I'm gonna continue with it or not.....

Amusingly enough, CoM wasn't the worst Dungeon Crawler I've played on the DS despite its terribleness. No. That award goes straight to From the Abyss where the only thing of note in the entire game was one of the game's six NPCs descending into vengeful madness after I axe'd into her brother's face a few questions (since he was a boss). The rest was cobbled together in an afternoon by a developer team needing a breather from whatever they were working on while also scoring a quick buck on the side.

The MMZ games are fun if rather challenging and has the best plot arc in the entire franchise (even if it's held back a bit in trying to work around the post X5 MMX games fucking with X5's ending which lead directly into Z1). I'd suggest to not worry about ranking in MMZ1 if that's what you're playing, just feed and use the Cyber Elves that confer the permanent abilities (helpfully marked by being bigger than the other Cyber Elves). If you're playing Z2-4 you'll need to worry a bit more since you need a high rank to acquire EX moves which are your standard boss weapons Zero style, but it's not as bad in those games since the games get progressively easier and less strict about upgrades.
3520  Media / Anime, TV, and Movies / Re: Anime/Manga Journal on: March 30, 2012, 05:06:11 AM

Fortunately you need ask why no longer since that thing slipped into cancellation territory.

Additionally I'm also looking forward to Zetman (manga did by the same guy who did Tiger & Bunny, straighter take on the genre than T&B but if the adaption is solid then it'll definitely be worth following) along with new Lupin (looks like they're taking a couple pages out of the manga rather than the older animes up to and including giving Lupin the green jacket) and maybe E7:AO (doubt it but hey, I've been pleasantly surprised before).
3521  Media / Single-Player RPGs / Re: Is Zelda Skyward Sword really the best Zelda game ever? on: March 30, 2012, 04:51:18 AM
So, TP is better than SS?

I think in the end I'll prefer TP over SS, yeah. I like Wind Waker more than both, I think it's tied with Link to the Past as my favorite Zelda.

It's kinda hard for me to say as both games had their flaws. SS was more of a proving ground for a new type of control style that I liked even if it wasn't perfect but it suffered from a great number of smaller flaws that almost robbed the Experience from the Zelda Experience; whereas TP tried to do something new and potentially interesting with the plot only to drop the ball and turn itself into a updated OoT clone, like promising us a new villain in Zant who quickly devolved into a goofy Aganhmin wannabe along with all the other dropped plot threads. Where TP's world felt dead and barren, SS's world felt undeveloped and bottled up.

As for inventories I felt that SS definitely had the advantage due to being more streamlined and less "Here's a fun dungeon item. Let's make it completely unusable outside of the dungeon until you run a sidequest to repair it so that you can move a handful of statues and then leave it with all of the other fun but almost impractically useless items.". Though I will admit that SS's sword upgrade curve was ridiculously uneven and bizarre, but even then it still beats out never gonna get any stronger wolf form, plus you could appreciate it more thanks to SS's boss rush and Hero Mode's Skyward Strike carryover. Plus those Medals passing on passives was a good idea but was underutilized (kinda like the Oracle's ring system but with stackable effects instead of only one at a time).

And then there's the challenge which I felt could be split fairly evenly. TP's fights had teeth on them and the challenge cave actually made me use stuff I wouldn't normally use which was a vast improvement over the games that had been coming out prior (although part of the challenge cave's challenge was remembering just how nerfed potions were in this game) but where it really shines was in boss combat. Many boss fights felt fun even if they slavishly adhered to the rule of threes and gave us some memorable ones like well pretty much everybody but the water dungeon's boss. That said I felt SS's scrub fights were better for the most part even if it lacked variety at times. The boss fights on the other hand were on average inferior to TP's boss battles with a couple of exceptions; namely level four's boss, level five's boss (kinda), the third fight against Grighamn, and the final boss fight.

Additionally SS's dungeons were both weaker and fewer in number than TP's but they were also shorter in a more realistic sense versus TP's level 1's wind valley and level 4's how do anybody get into this Colosseum? Though TP did have levels 5 and 6 for its more realistically proportioned dungeons. Though part of this was the fact that most dungeons had to fully showcase their respective items before letting them rust in your inventory for the rest of the game whereas SS had you running around and using shit all over the place to get anywhere.

I believe both games have about the same signal to noise ratio of NPCs in them but SS simply had less of both. It basically comes down to Minda, Malo, and the gang versus Groose, his gang, and Scraper. Though SS's Zelda at least had the decency to actually come out and say that Link was her tool before making her worthless non-sacrifice versus TP's Zelda dropping vague hints to things that'll never come to pass before making her not as worthless until it becomes even more worthless non-sacrifice (she had me going the first time around since the series hadn't pulled something like that before; now I just laugh). Ultimately though TP's Zelda wins simply by virtue of being a boss fight even if she has a void where her nether region is supposed to be.

Additionally both had their stupid realms. TP's Twilight Realm and its glowy bug hunt versus SS's Silent Realm and its glowy drop hunt.

Tl;dr: would be that I'd give points to SS for having a better overall plot, a better inventory, better scrub fights, and better non-dungeon environments and I'd give points to TP for having better enemy variety, better dungeons, a better selection of bosses, a better Zelda, and better overall music. Overall I'd rate them the same since despite TP having more items scoring points under its belt that inventory matter is something I'd dock it for.

(The tl;dr of my tl;dr is that if you like aesthetics TP's the better game. If you like mechanics then SS's the better game. It really comes down to preference on this one.)
3522  Media / Single-Player RPGs / Re: What one RPG would you award 100% to? on: March 29, 2012, 02:53:11 PM
That said, graphics should only count as far as their timelessness.  FF7's graphics are definitely a mark against it in this day and age; whereas most sprite-based games from that same era still look fine today, like Breath of Fire 3.  This is one reason why NES and SNES games are still highly playable, but it takes a strong will to stomach an early PS1 game.

Well that and the fact that 3D game design was still a relatively new and unexplored frontier of game design where some developers acclimated to the environment better than others.
3523  Media / Single-Player RPGs / Re: SRW Z2-2 on: March 29, 2012, 02:47:01 PM
Man, most of those route splits sound like they'd be worth going through. It'll be hard to choose between Tesujin-28 exploding everything it touches, Chirico and his mighty Marshydog, and Ester calling out Alto on his wishy-washy cockblocking of his ladies + Exia Repair. The only one I'd lose no sleep over for passing it up would be the Gundam one.


Anyways, new screenshots.

http://andriasang.com/con0fm/suparobo_saisei_screens/
3524  The Rest / General Discussions / Re: Random and Amazing Pictures, Please! on: March 29, 2012, 03:00:06 AM


A robot with a penis that has an angry eye on its penis.

It is staring at you with its penis.

I always thought of that controller looking like some kind of backwards spaceship but with a tower instead of a bridge (which we will now refer to as the bridge).

Also I was referring to insertnamehere's pic rather than Annubis's semi-NSFW pic.
3525  Media / Single-Player RPGs / Re: Question about Suikoden on: March 29, 2012, 02:49:34 AM
What were the best runes (edit: rune piece) anyway? I pretty much maxed my whole team with water because the healing each turn was pretty nice.

I forget if it works the same way as in Suikoden II but if it does the second tier elemental runes are the best (they double the effects and stack). Honestly I never really used the feature all that much in Suikoden I due to all the other ways you can break the game with like unites, infinite money, and just having Soul Eater as your main's True Rune.
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