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Next Quiz Date: January 11, 2014
Subject: 999 (Nintendo DS)
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4036  Media / Single-Player RPGs / Re: the new fire emblem game... on: September 22, 2010, 08:17:34 PM
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The tl;dr is that old games not originally designed to accommodate newer features have a hard time accommodating newer features shoehorned into them without breaking in half or becoming bloated as hell.

Yeah, it's not like they're already adding in systems that change the game significantly like a class change system or something stupid like that. They're not even adding in new characters to throw off the character balance they already had! They're also not letting you see the stats of your attack before you execute it, you gotta work it all out in your head before you do it.

I knew that your response would be something along the lines of "oh well how would you feel if they put FF#'s systems in FF1", and I really have to ask you if you honestly think putting in the gambit system into FF1 is at all comparable to keeping gameplay aspects that deepened strategy in what's called a strategy RPG, when every single FE game share identical basic gameplay (and thus pretty much all of them can accommodate such changes without a lot of tweaking to balance). Games don't exist in a vacuum.

Just as I knew that once again you've completely missed the point in the most spectacular way possible.

First off Sedger and Wolf illustrate my point precisely (though in H5 mode they become a necessity as they're the only people in your party really capable of taking more than two hits early on).

The new characters are a complete non-factor given how they are gained.

The user interface is one of the least game balance changing changes anybody can make.

The gambit system was something people bitched and whined about FFXII so inserting that into FFI would've caused more bitching and whining. Additionally saying that FF games have changed much over the years is a gross overstatement. They've gotten rid of MP charges per spell level. You might be able to change classes during gameplay instead of making one promotion for everybody at a certain point. There are now 1001 additional items alongside potions, antidotes, tents, and gold needles. But they are completely superfluous now thanks to MP being a breeze to replenish at savepoints. And there are the occasional equitable macguffins that confer magic and possibly abilities (though probably not permanently). Also ATB and the fact that attacks can retarget when their original target croaks. And finally there are millions of hours of really boring voiced cutscenes instead of a textbox telling you the exact same thing. Otherwise they're pretty damn similar to each other (save for XI which is online and multiplayer).

I suppose that next you'll be whining that FEDS2 should've had stamina from FE5 again or a generational mechanic like FE4 or even the constitution stat from FEs 6-8.

Besides there's one other possibility that you've never considered, and that is that the DS games are serving as a testing grounds for new gameplay concepts for FE11 when they eventually get around to making it (effectively the same principle as the DS SRW games). They already have solid games as a constant and they can add a few new variables to see what works and what would be too gamebreaking. And in this case adding too many variables can cause the developers and players to lose sight of the constant.
4037  Media / Single-Player RPGs / Re: Post examples of good Writing in RPGs on: September 22, 2010, 07:23:01 PM
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DQVC

Please let that be a QVC reference.

It is.

Has it been mentioned yet that DQIX is awesome? Because it is.
4038  Media / Single-Player RPGs / Re: the new fire emblem game... on: September 22, 2010, 06:23:28 PM
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FEDS2 was built around the same general gameplay structure as the game its remaking aka FE3. That means that rescuing and moving again weren't implemented yet (didn't happen til FE5). This is the exact same problem I had with everyone's problems with FEDS1. Everyone wants all the mechanics of the latest and greatest games in what is essentially a reskinned version of the original made a little less utterly archaic and obtuse for people not accustom to NES-level pioneering gameplay mechanics.

People liked, and want those mechanics because they made the gameplay deeper. I fail to see how the game is superior to what it would've been because it lacks these options. Why are you encouraging developers to be lazy with their remakes?

So then you would be keen to the idea of remaking FFI with either FFVIII's Junction system, FFXII's Gambits, and/or FFXIII's weapon building?

Or how about a remake of FF Adventure but with SoM's weapon/magic skill leveling system, multiple upgradable weapons, and charge attacks, SD3's classes, day/night, and treasure mechanics, and LoM's forging/tempering/fruit&vegetable growing/useless&resource-hogging ally mechanics and fugly character designs while also including a pared down quest to make room for two protagonists, updates to the storyline to put it in lime with today's 'all adversity can only be conquered through the power of friendship' PSA, as well as making it more palatable to today's youth by making all the non-finalboss villains into not-villains, retconning a few deaths because separate protags need equal amount of useless/resource-hogging allies, and making the male into a deposed prince trying to rescue his daddy because he wasn't predestined nor cliched enough...

Oh wait.

The tl;dr is that old games not originally designed to accommodate newer features have a hard time accommodating newer features shoehorned into them without breaking in half or becoming bloated as hell.
4039  Media / Single-Player RPGs / Re: the new fire emblem game... on: September 21, 2010, 10:58:43 PM
I am facepalming at this post so hard right now.

FEDS2 was built around the same general gameplay structure as the game its remaking aka FE3. That means that rescuing and moving again weren't implemented yet (didn't happen til FE5). This is the exact same problem I had with everyone's problems with FEDS1. Everyone wants all the mechanics of the latest and greatest games in what is essentially a reskinned version of the original made a little less utterly archaic and obtuse for people not accustom to NES-level pioneering gameplay mechanics.

The one thing I'm glad they've gotten rid of in this version was that ridiculous dismount mechanic that greatly reduced the effectiveness of mounted characters due to reduced stats and mandating weapons that the characters are much less proficient with. (Well maybe not 'glad' but I can understand and accept why they did it.)

Also how is this game incredibly sexist when you've got people like Catria putting pretty much everybody to shame?
4040  The Rest / General Discussions / Re: Youtube on: September 21, 2010, 09:29:14 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iDZ3hzwfAic

Mega Man (D:os version.)
4041  Media / Single-Player RPGs / Re: Post examples of good Writing in RPGs on: September 21, 2010, 07:55:12 PM
Thank god no one has mentioned Dragon Age. I have some faith in the WRPG community after all.

Looking at RPG stories, I can barely think of any that would have writing I classify as "good" if you're comparing it to formal literature. Though admittedly, that's not really fair to games because if compared to some of the best literature, everything would be "bad."

JRPGs in general have pacing issues and issues with plot structure. There is not a lot of variation in the latter, which can make the titles seem less original than they actually are.
For WRPGs, I find it really hit an miss as well.  I've seen player-created mods for games that have a better story than the vanilla game. The writing in WRPGs generally feels stiff, much like western fantasy and science-fiction literature.  No Anna Karenina here, unfortunately.

Considering directing, there were certain points in Dragon Quest V that were brilliantly done. Dragon Quest V also has an advantage in that it doesn't follow a traditional plot structure (Exposition - RA - Climax - FA - Conclusion).

I'll agree with the minimalistic approach being best in games.  My own recommendation would be the DS title "The Dark Spire."  There doesn't seem to be a lot of plot there at first, but when you replay the game, you start noticing subtle things you missed the first time through.  Item descriptions give the world's history, certain area descriptions that you didn't pay attention to the first time through start finding meaning and sorting in your head. And then, finally, you pay attention to the introduction to the game that seemed completely inane, but then everything clicks as to why certain things didn't make sense or were unclear at first.  I actually went out of my way to do a plot analysis on this title and was surprised at some of the conclusions I came up with.  They were completely different than my first impressions of the story in the game.

For me, a game's world and interaction can tell a much stronger story than any direct writing could.

This is without a doubt the most intelligent thing I have ever read on this entire site.


The one thing I would like to add to this about JRPGs is that they always seem to feel the need to force twists into their plots regardless of just how ill fitting, poorly timed, or tired out they are. Even lighthearted games will force at least one or two twists into their plot like Summon Night: Twin Age did when it made one of your 'allies' a spy, even if unintentionally. They backpedal this with the unintentional part since they can't have an ally with stats to be bad in any capacity, but at the same time forcing needless drama (in the form of mistrust of said ally) in a game that has no need or place for said drama.

And then there are games that try to force twists so convoluted that the only way to backpedal the ending into anything resembling a conclusion is to drop entire plot threads and handwave the rest away with magic or the technobabel equivalent (like SO3).

Basically a lot of plot twists used in JRPGs are like an episode of Colombo. Five minutes in and you've got the mystery solved, and the rest of the episode is spent trying to figure out which one is the glass eye.
4042  Media / Single-Player RPGs / Re: Valkyria Chronicles II on: September 19, 2010, 02:28:00 AM
People are comparing it to Persona because it's begging to be compared to Persona.

Everything is begging to be compared to Persona because I have a Mara for Persona.
4043  Media / Single-Player RPGs / Re: Post examples of good Writing in RPGs on: September 19, 2010, 02:23:35 AM
Dragon Quest V

FFT deserves a nod as well for managing to not have terrible pacing unlike everything else from Squaresoft back then.
4044  Media / Single-Player RPGs / Re: The "Fucking JRPGs" Thread on: September 19, 2010, 02:04:26 AM
Whatever, just another thread to be ignored. This used to be a great forum.

Pretty much this.  A thousand times.

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Sorry, I thought this was the "The Fucking JRPGs" Thread".

I'd suggest renaming the site to FuckingJRPGs, but I think it would attract the wrong kind of material.

Quoted for new page.

Also because its true.
4045  The Rest / General Discussions / Re: Prepare to feel old: Super Mario turns twenty-five today on: September 18, 2010, 08:10:50 AM
Why is everyone forgetting that the 1980s was the best decade ever for cartoons?  Need I mention Transformers, Voltron, Mighty Orbots, Jayce and the Wheeled Warriors, MASK, Mysterious Cities of Gold, Ulysses 3030, Beverly Hills Teens, Muppet Babies, He-Man, GI Joe, Jem, BlackStar, Bigfoot and the Muscle Machines, Visionaries, Inhumanoids, COPS, Dungeons and Dragons, Star Fleet, Spiderman and his Amazing Friends, Bravestarr, Bionic Six, The Raccoons, Centurions, Dragon's Lair, She-Ra, Sky Commanders...

 http://www.80scartoons.net/

I'm 32 (born in '78) so I lived on 80s cartoons.

Because everybody knows that it was the 90's was the greatest decade for cartoons ever. The Adventures of Batman and Robin, Gargoyles, Pirates of Dark Water, SatAM Sonic the Hedgehog, The Tick, Animaniacs, Freakazoid, Earthworm Jim, Mega Man, Aladdin, Goof Troop, X-Men, Superman the Animated Series, and Batman Beyond just to name a few...

Plus thanks to improving technology we also had computer animated shows such as Reboot and Beast Wars.


Also say what you will about 80's fashion but 90's fashion wasn't much of an improvement either (Overalls and FUCKING FLANNAL!!!).
4046  Media / Single-Player RPGs / Re: Why are popular RPGs given bad reviews? on: September 17, 2010, 06:55:52 PM
The real reasons why Suki II got bad scores was probably a combination of bad timing (came out around 2000 which was overshadowed by a ton of other games like FFIX, LoZ:MM, Chrono Cross and the PS2 was on the horizon with MGS2 and FFX in the wings), the fact that it wasn't a game in a major series, and that there weren't that many copies getting into gamer's hands (hence why copies are typically sold on E-Bay for $100+ dollars).

Nah, it came out in late 1999 but with the way the game industry works none of those games were an issue (and MGS2 and FFX wouldn't have been either). However, Final Fantasy VIII had came out then, the DC launched, and we had other significant RPG releases like Grandia hit. So did Planescape Torment, and the people that it appeals too only overlapped with Suikoden II's playerbase post-mortem I suspect. Certainly I didn't pay attention to it until years later.

For some reason I was under the assumption that Suki II came out in 2000. Then again I don't really remember all that much from that period (or have chosen not to).
4047  Media / Single-Player RPGs / Re: Dissidia Duodecim Final Fantasy announced for PSP. on: September 17, 2010, 06:44:58 PM
So, let see. I've read that Tifa was announced as a playable character and other than that, the game looks more like a expantion than an actual sequel.

Here's a gameplay video with one of the new characters: http://www.gametrailers.com/video/tgs-10-dissidia-final/704580

So if you liked the original, you'll definitely like this.

Edit: You can also play as that Cloud from Kingdom Hearts and they also showed Lightning in Aya's costume...




More screenshots here, and another gameplay video here (Lightning vs. Terra).

Still needs some Celes.

That said, Cloud getting an assist from Sephy. Tina getting assisted by Cefca. WTFITS!?
4048  Media / Single-Player RPGs / Re: Muramasa: The Demon Blade and Odin Sphere getting HD Ports on: September 16, 2010, 10:38:18 AM
I really need to get into Odin Sphere. I still have it on my shelf begging for attention.

Depending on the port's quality you may want to hold off on that since not having to put up the atrocious slowdown on the PS2 alone pretty much remakes the game (since the slowdown was THAT bad).
4049  Media / Single-Player RPGs / Re: Best RPG of the decade on: September 16, 2010, 10:33:11 AM
Additionally Doom is a game about killing satan and his demonic hordes. It's a perfectly goodly Christian game in that sense. I mean if look I know the Good Book doesn't make any mention of Mars, but I'm pretty sure if demons invaded it, The Pope himself would go there in a b..attlesui..t to f...uck some shit... up............. WAIT THAT NEEDS TO BE A GAME. NOW.

Additionally bible is rife with potential game ideas like pretty much anything out of the Old Testament. Just read this since it articulates the idea better than I could.
4050  Media / Single-Player RPGs / Re: Why are popular RPGs given bad reviews? on: September 15, 2010, 07:15:30 AM

Suikoden II's story definitely deserves more than it got, but this is why we tell people to broaden their horizons and check out multiple sources for their information rather than just one guy.

But. It didn't star a brooding hero, an amnesiac, or a guy with multiple personality disorder. It didn't feature twenty left field plot twists per disk or even more than one disk. It didn't feature a plot of over 200 playing hours with about 180 of those hours consisting of boring fetch quests. It didn't feature a plot of a simple rebellion against the evil polluting empire turned vision quest to kill god. Nor did the plot reveal the origins of humanity as provided by an anime alien civilization that was destroyed, locked in unevolution, or simply crashed a forgotten cargo ship onto the planet like a hojillion years ago. And the plot wasn't even entirely centered on the main character's awkward attempts at trying to fall in love with the anime magical girl/princess while he and a bunch of plebs go chasing after some unspecified evil that's simply just misunderstood in its quest to cast everything into oblivion.

Seriously? You expected Suki II's plot to compare to that? I scoff! SCOFF!!! at your silliness.

Why have you got to highlight my ignorance all the time? :(

Not really. I was using your post as an excuse to make fun of the RPGs of the era. Most games from that era (especially Squeenix games) are notoriously bad at trying to be pretentious and failing miserably.

The real reasons why Suki II got bad scores was probably a combination of bad timing (came out around 2000 which was overshadowed by a ton of other games like FFIX, LoZ:MM, Chrono Cross and the PS2 was on the horizon with MGS2 and FFX in the wings), the fact that it wasn't a game in a major series, and that there weren't that many copies getting into gamer's hands (hence why copies are typically sold on E-Bay for $100+ dollars).
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