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4936  Media / Miscellaneous Games / Re: Endings in games on: January 17, 2012, 01:26:27 PM
Lufia 2's ending was pretty good for a SNES title.  I actually played it before 1 because I knew it was a prequel but had no knowledge of the story.  I kept waiting for Maxim and Selan to pull a Lunar: SS and appear, but they never did.  Instead it showed their friends waiting for them to show up someday, thinking they were alive, but they weren't.  Made a young Akanbe tear up it did.

Lufia 1's was also pretty good in a sobering sort of way. Sure you get around the whole "Your girlfriend is a Sinistral resurrecting the other Sinistrals" problem via memory wipe, but unfortunately that also included your girlfriend's memories as well and the ending is spent with the MC accepting that both are now gone and he has to start all over with this essentially new girl.

And speaking of SuperNES games with awesome endings. Secret of Mana. Nothing like concluding your adventure atop a snowy mountain peak realizing that one of your party members is now essentially a force ghost and everybody you spent the entire game either trying to rescue or find are now dead.

Additionally I like LttP's and Chrono Trigger's endings, though mostly for the music.
4937  Media / Single-Player RPGs / Re: The Merged Final Fantasy XIII-2 Thread on: January 17, 2012, 01:08:23 PM
Have to agree, F3 and Oblivion had terrible plots. I honestly can't remember anything about the latter's since it was so incredibly bland I didn't even bother trying to complete it and instead focused on the side quests. I liked both these games because of the loot whoring. Really, in F3 nothing was more satisfying than going into a random house and finding a treasure trove of stims, ammo, guns, etc. It was the satisfaction of finding these that kept me playing.

If I remember correctly Oblivion's plot basically consisted of turning yourself into such a badass that you get dibs on the front row seats to the battle between whatever God allegory and whatever Satan allegory they used in that game.
4938  Media / Single-Player RPGs / Re: Worst Final Fantasy game (No online games) on: January 17, 2012, 01:01:57 PM
I want to, very creepily, get pictures of 17 year olds, and take them to Square Enix to show them how they look.  If Squall and friends are 17, Madonna is 106 years old.

Amen sister. Nobody looks that young at 17 aside from the occasional exception. He must have been shaving his terrorist beard off every day or something.

Actually this reminds me of an oft neglected secret in the game. If you spend over 100 hours of game time away from any inn as well as collecting and equipping both the sunglasses and fez accessories the Esthar homeland security task force will track you down and lock you up at a secret prison located in the foreign country of Galbadia that's virtually identical to the one you start disk 2 proper in (down to the location even).

To escape you must use strength on the truck.

Additionally if you do happen to have some extra pictures of 17 year olds (of the hot female variety specifically) lying about you could perhaps send them my way instead. ;)
4939  Media / Single-Player RPGs / Re: Worst Final Fantasy game (No online games) on: January 16, 2012, 02:25:34 AM
The tl;dr of FFVIII's plot is that you're playing a convenience store romance novel which is fine if you love them otherwise "Guess what you're playing! :v:". Squall is a moody teenager who falls in love with the first 'is a princess in everything but name and non playability' he sees. Everything else is a backdrop to this. Everything.

I love FFVIII despite it's battle mehcanics. You can abuse it but you don't HAVE to..

But it is nice to know just how awful your base stats are and will always be so that you don't inadvertently take the Hard Mode route by doing what more RPGs in general have you do.

Also this only applies up until somewhere during the final boss fight where Ultimacia will basically slap the taste out of your mouth for still trying to use those crappy GFs and unless you have reams of top tier spells junctioned to vital stats or can properly abuse limit breaks you ain't beating shit.

Also 'meh-canics' is an awesome word for dumb fantasy tech and I'm definitely stealing coming up with it all on my own. Trademarked.
4940  Media / Single-Player RPGs / Re: SRW OGSaga: Masou Kishin 2 on: January 16, 2012, 01:50:09 AM
It's a remake and a sequel (i.e. they included a remade version of the DS remake of The Lord of Elemental with this game; now it doesn't look like shit anymore).

not sure why they wouldnt but anys ways.

wow....i havent touched the 2nd game yet but im kinda tempted too now

To put this in context, while that last attack will pretty much wipe Cybuster for the rest of the stage it's roughly powerful enough to one shot the final boss with. And even without the spirit fusion it's still a beefy attack.

Damn this looks incredible! How in the world do you guys manage your way through all the japanese language in these games though..... If there is some secret that I don't know about that would enable me to play these games (short of learning a new language) I would love to be enlightened... Do you just use translations you find online?

Mostly, we don't. What we do know however is the general layout and mechanics that the series tends to use and can figure out the rest through either context or from online information as well as the general scheme of the plot (or plots in the non OG SRW games since those are based off of the series being included) based off of various synopses including other games and other media.

The two GBA OG games were released in the states and the translations of the other various games such as SRW 1, 3, @G, and J are the best ways to acquaint oneself with the series involved as well as Wiki'ing the various Gundam series, as well as a general synopsis of Mazinger and Getter Robo for the gist of the non OG games. There's also an anime version of OG2 that recently came out in Japan called SRW:OG2:The Inspectors, although I wouldn't recommend watching it without foreknowledge of the game since it condenses things a bit too much (though it's leagues better than the other SRW based animes out there).

That said, one thing to remember about this game in particular is that it's more like FFT/TO than the usual SRW game is (i.e. not really at all) in that placement and flanking are actually important (and possible) in this game.
4941  Media / Single-Player RPGs / Re: Chrono Cross first impressions on: January 14, 2012, 08:33:00 PM
^It didn't help that Serge basically drifting around aimlessly was basically what was happening for most of the game. For every show stopper like the stuff in Viper Manor/Fort Dragonia/The Dead Sea/Chronopolis there's crap like the Blue Dragon Island/Both Ships/The Einhanzer Hunt/The Dragon Relic Hunt/Getting Into Terra Tower/ect. There's a number of points where you're running some filler errand for no real reason than just because.

I was actually going to come up with a hierarchy of main-ness of the characters based on how central they were to the plot and the amount of character development they got but then I quit giving a shit as Meshes are often wont to quit giving.

Here's the graph as I remember it.

Kid > Serge >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> everybody else.

Even Lynx was rather unimportant given just how much time he wastes sitting around and waiting for you to show up.

Additionally that stupid movie wasn't the only thing to come out that summer. They also popped out Threads of Fate/Dew Prism and Legend of Mana and even made a big deal of the three of them coming out during the same season to boot.
4942  Media / Single-Player RPGs / Re: SRW OGSaga: Masou Kishin 2 on: January 14, 2012, 04:35:47 PM
its out now...replaying the remake of part 1 before trying part 2. the DS version now looks ugly by comparison. i can post some screenshots of part1 later if anyone wants.

If the mods allow it then sure, go for it.
4943  Media / Single-Player RPGs / Re: Chrono Cross first impressions on: January 14, 2012, 04:32:40 PM
the main battle music (wow, probably only Legend of Dragoon beats it for crappiest battle music)

I'll agree with this and say no more.
4944  Media / Single-Player RPGs / Re: The Merged Final Fantasy XIII-2 Thread on: January 14, 2012, 11:15:48 AM
Bad/crappy might be the wrong word in hindsight. I think the word I'm looking for when dealing with 13's plot is 'convoluted'.

And pretentious.  Every character was hurting like Dawson's Creek.

"I don't want to to wait for our lives to be over"

I miss that shitty show. 40 year olds pretending to be high school teens discussing relationships like 40 year old women in talk shows.Lovely.

*clears throat*


@Leyviur & ZeronHitaro:

You would've had a point if the characters who were dumb in FFX2 weren't also dumb in FFX1. Remember Yuna was a broken record about her death march throughout the majority of FFX and Meg Ryan Tidus and Citan Uzuki Auron were the only other characters. Both of which were MIA in X2 for obvious reasons.
4945  Media / Single-Player RPGs / Re: Need opinions on these games on: January 14, 2012, 10:59:50 AM
I read parts  of that topic already. Also I'm currently playing a bunch of games. I know the Fable games aren't big on story but the gameplay is fun and around here people say the 2nd one is the worst one. I thought the 3rd one was interesting because the player becomes a king later on in the game. Whats so great about the 2nd game


Also you could and should take these and future questions down to The NEW Game Journal on the General Discussions board.
4946  The Rest / General Discussions / Re: The NEW Game Journal on: January 13, 2012, 08:27:15 PM
It's been a while but unfortunately I've only had time for one more GTAIII mission. Now at a current total of 52 out of 73. I also have a bullet proof Patriot which is an awesome addition to my vehicle arsenal (though keeping it is proving a pain and a half since it can still get beaten up and blown up). I've also amassed a massive arsenal of weaponry which makes the awkward combat kinda manageable. And 33 packages.
4947  Media / Single-Player RPGs / Re: Mass Effect 3 - I think Shepard is a clone *ME2 spoilers* on: January 13, 2012, 06:45:04 PM
I have the sneaking suspicion that there's going to be a conversation in ME3 that's going to sound eerily similar to the one in this video (between 0:28 - 0:36; additionally the rest of this video's content will also somehow resemble parts of ME3 as well).
4948  Media / Single-Player RPGs / Re: Chrono Cross first impressions on: January 13, 2012, 06:28:18 PM

The way I see the whole linear/non-linear design debate is in the question of is there a world to explore or is it all just fancy decorum for the hallway you're being railroaded through. The major factors involve matters of backtracking versus points of no return, permanently missable content, the number of available options at any given point, world scope, and side content.

In the matter of the RPG in particular, the objective of non-linearity is silly since the entire point to the genre is the effort of taking a character (blank or otherwise) and progressing them through a series of challenges until they reach the pinnacle of their abilities. Most games give you somebody new and fresh to take and to grow into what you want or need it to be to accomplish the goals set out for you. And this process is usually on a one way street (once you get stronger you can't get weaker because that pushes you further from completing your goal). And because your character can only grow in one direction so too does the game itself progress in one direction to push you closer towards the set goal.

The question then becomes a matter of how the game goes about this.

The most linear version of this lay in typical dungeon crawlers and side-scrollers. Side-scrollers will only let you move to the right so that you can push forward on a particular path through some kinda of obstacle course whereas dungeon crawlers only really let you push downward. Both can have pit stops in between stages but they otherwise complete ignore everything else in favor your single-minded charge towards the goal of the game. The problem I have with this design type is that if I get bored with this single-minded endeavor then my only option is to walk away. In fact, the only way I'd care for the dungeon crawler type of game (side-scrollers can be challenging enough to be worth the challenge on their own) is if the resource that needs to be managed is female clothing, all other potential motivations are meaningless to me due to the lack of context and the near meaninglessness of other resources due to abstraction (i.e. MP).

Your standard JRPG tends to fall into this process as well, especially games like the Grandia series where pretty much everything else is disregarded aside from pushing towards the goal except for the little pit stops between dungeons. The problem I have with this design lies in the fact that in a RPG where the idea of gradually grow stronger is lost on the fact that the challenge curves with you. Where new options are made obsolete as soon as you get them (status effect spells and such), newer and flashier kill sticks simply replace old ones, and the only real sense in progression comes either from watching the arbitrary numbers rise (both in regards to what you do in addition to what the enemy does) or seeing old bosses become random encounters.

Route splits are kind of a weird thing to place since it relies entirely on permanently missable content and Chrono Cross falls squarely into this one with its routes that determine which character(s) you recruit during your run as well as most SRPGs. Depending on how it's handled you could have multiple possibilities available to play through with multiple end goals in a CYOA (Choose Your Own Adventure) way at best or merely a cosmetic way to pad content by sticking a brief divergence in the plot that only those OCD enough will want to see (made even better by weighing a clearly inferior choice versus a clearly superior choice) with numerous possibilities in between.

Some games like the earlier FF titles (up till VII) and the later Zelda titles (like MC) among others are games I actually like despite the linearity. This is mostly due to the fact that you don't often run aground of points of no return (a couple of dungeons in the FF games) in addition to the fact that there is a world to actually wander around in once you've gained the means. Incidentally I find Radiant Historia to fall into this level due to the fact that while the plot is both massively on-rails and restrictive as all get out it almost never crosses any point of no return (aside from the prologue but there's nothing there aside from the events of the prologue but w/e). You can always return to any point that you've previously visited and with it any region, any missed treasure, and any events therein.

Then I believe you start getting into the sequence breaking stuff here with things like the earlier Zeldas and the various Metroidvaina wannabes where you have a set sequence of events but there exists the option of saying nuts to that, either intended or not, and breaking the order. However in this you still have to do everything the game wants you to do and optional content is either sparse or at the end. It's alright depending on how well it's handled but I dare not try to list all the examples.

And then I believe we start to get into side quest line stuffs that tend to overshadow main plot line stuffs with games like Majora's Mask and Deadly Premonition. I tend to really enjoy games where the main objectives are there and all but the real meat of the game is off the beaten path like these. Powering up is mostly optional but recommended to do a bit of at least. Of course my one disappointment with them is that they get too easy when you go for everything.

And I feel that this point of the spectrum is where many WRPGs and many Square/crappy Squeenix games fall where the main plot is but one of many quest lines. The big difference between the level above and this one is that these games present all quest lines and not just side quest lines in rather compact segments, usually started by a quest giver of whatever variety. I'm kinda not that big on these types due to the lack of gravity on the main objective, especially in cases like FFTA where over 90% of the content is useless filler who's sole purpose is for grinding on.

And finally I believe we get an almost pure non-linear type of game where there's no real overarching plot at all. The ending stands on its own whereas the rest of the game is at best dropping the tools you'll need for the endgame while grinding you up and every step you take means that the enemies get stronger and that you need to be careful not to waste whatever constitutes as a step, or that neither parties really get any stronger at all. I want to say that LoM falls into this but it doesn't really since the side plots are substantive enough and the method of making enemies grow with you was pretty ineffective at best. Unfortunately the best example would be the Megaman series where you only need a few upgrades at best coming either entirely or almost entirely from bosses with whatever Skull Fortress being the actual wrap up.

But this is just how I tend to order things in regards to linearity/non-linearity.
4949  Media / Single-Player RPGs / Re: Worst Final Fantasy game (No online games) on: January 13, 2012, 10:34:42 AM
FFX2 is the worst by far, imo.  It was made for girls and girls alone. The music was mostly shit except for the title theme and while the combat system was really good, it didn't make up for the overall nonsense. It just didn't hold my attention at all. As for VIII, yeah the mechanics could be abused for sure but it was just fun to play, at least until you got to Esthar.  Great music too. Favorite is still 6 though..

FFX2 does get better past it's abysmal opening half and you can turn off transformation sequences easily enough as well. And it's not like they ruined any of the characters from X1 since they were mostly unlikeable to begin with, just unlikeable in a different way now. Unfortunately there's the whole "trying to get 100%" thing which is utter bullshit and can die in a fire.
4950  Media / Single-Player RPGs / Re: Worst Final Fantasy game (No online games) on: January 12, 2012, 10:05:33 PM
That's the thing. There's no need to do that. You can just auto-junction and steamroll everything. That's why it isn't fun.

Eh, a game is only as easy as your goals are. FFVIII has some DAMNED HARD side bosses. Not to mention, I don't evaluate myself on whether I can kill enemies, but how efficiently and effectively I can do so. Even though FFVIII isn't difficult to progress through (though let's be fair here, it's not THAT easy) I love fine tuning my party so that I can UTTERLY KICK THE SHIT out of anything that stands in my way. Create your own challenges. See if you can underlevel your party by carding all enemies (fun!), things like that. And if that's not enough, try going up against Omega Weapon. Or try fighting Ultima Weapon and staying in battle alive long enough to draw 300 Ultimas (I've never been able to do this). The game offers some serious challenges if you're up for it.

Or you could just pop a Holy War or two and Aura spam to victory against Omega or whatever. And it's not like you'll ever use a party other than Zell and Riona midway through disk 3 anyways. Quisits Degenerator is nice early on but when you can spam multiple Meteor Dives in one turn it kinda makes everything else save for Lion Heart and the occasional Shooting Star obsolete.

Also beating Ultima nets you 100 Ultima Stones anyways so there's no real reason to draw 300 Ultimas (hell 150~200 will do you and there are other places to draw them as well).
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