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736  Media / Single-Player RPGs / Re: Nier on: August 26, 2010, 06:10:10 AM
Its great to see so many people really enjoying the game, despite all the bad press (Did they even really play the game?) and the melancholy. Its not very often a game comes along that really strikes a human chord in you.
737  Media / Multiplayer RPGs / Re: FFXIV Thread on: August 26, 2010, 05:35:12 AM
If they changed it so that there were no physical level penalties unless you continued to play beyond the 8 hours on a particular class, it would be better.

That way you could switch classes and progress normally.. or you could go craft for a number of hours and then come back to your class of choice.

If they did that and cut the reset time by half, I think most folks would be ok with it. I intend to do a lot of crafting.. and if I've got several potential hours of varied and productive gameplay in any given week, I'm going to be happy.

Honestly, the physical experience point fatigue wasn't really noticeable. I think the community is willing to be reasonable, but they shouldn't be. I thought that way too when they had the interview at Gamescom, but the more I thought about it, the more I realized just how wrong it was. Letting them dictate how you play your game when you're paying them a monthly fee is morally bankrupt. MMOs are about freedom of choice, and letting them get away with such an Orwellian practice, no matter how they may neuter it, is the equivalent of giving them an affirmative - "Yes, you can micromanage my time." It sets a bad precedent and needs to be removed. If they are worried about lack of content, delay the game till March so we can have a true simultaneous release with real content, or just adjust the XP rate for levels and skills down a bit. It's like they're taking a page out of Apple's playbook "We don't care about being open, or even being pro-consumer. You're going to eat our vision and like it."
738  Media / Multiplayer RPGs / Re: FFXIV Thread on: August 26, 2010, 05:24:48 AM

I'm very curious as to how RMT supposedly butchered XI. You see, the playerbase that once blamed RMT for their inability to obtain the gear they wanted to were mostly full of shit, because regardless of whether there are RMT or not, people that play the game are greedy, want to get as much profit as they can from a single sale, and will be just as opportunistic, if not moreso, than the RMT everyone blames their problems for. XI is the only MMO I know of where the playerbase has such a passionate hatred of the RMT, because they can use them as an excuse for the simple fact that they don't have what they want to have, when it was the shitty design of the game that led to such things.

I'm referring to SE's repeated and oft publisized fight against RMT, their task force and some of their banning policies that on the outside make it look like they lost control of their game. I totally agree player greed plays into as well as because of the game's design - there was player demand, and thus RMT thrived and continues to thrive. I suppose "butchered" might have been a strong word, but if you've kept up with their task force reports, they certainly painted RMT as the destroyer of worlds.
739  Media / Multiplayer RPGs / Re: FFXIV Thread on: August 26, 2010, 05:17:17 AM
I know wow is a touchy subject, but i think they did it best, devalue gold.  plain and simple and it works.  Why can't others work with that?

Actually it doesn't. WoW actually provides the largest amount of RMT demand of all the current MMO's to date. Gold may be easy to get in WoW, but it makes it easier for RMT to make stock and the huge playerbase makes for the best clientelle. Don't beleive me, do a search for WoW Gold and you'll have a ton more sites selling than for any other MMO out there. Believe me, even though it doesn't affect you because you're not struggling for gold, its still there.

I think the main point is, how do you make a game where RMT have no impact on your economy. Devaluing your currency only leads to inflation - its just not as noticeable on WoW because you have reliable ways to make money via dailys etc.

Anyway, it's just a theory - the very strange decisions they are making with FFXIV have to have some kind of rational thought involved outside of "lets slow them down because we don't have content." I'm sure that plays a part in it too, but the Market Ward, Disciples of Hand/Land just seem too suspicious to me. All i'm trying to do is make sense of it all, and the cock-blocking RMT is the only hypothesis that makes sense to me when I look at the whole picture.
740  Media / Multiplayer RPGs / Re: FFXIV Thread on: August 25, 2010, 11:25:04 PM
You know what, I finally understand why they're doing all this. It has nothing to do with casuals or hardcore. Looking over the issues that have cropped up. Creating crafting CLASSES, a Market Ward system, no AH, leveling restrictions...

Come on you guys, it's plain as day. They're terrified of RMT. I think they were so embarrassed at how badly RMT butchered XI over the years that they're willing to kill their playerbase to acheive an RMT free game.
Think about it, it makes perfect sense.

1) Crafting and Gathering classes that are skill based with a built-in yield decrease will make farmers much less effective, no matter how many you have.
2) No AH means that RMT has no way to manipulate the economy, and the Market Wards are too unwieldy to be efficient for moving around that kind of gil.
3) Surplus XP completely negates the power leveling business. If you can exhaust your potential skill points and XP in a short time, why pay to have someone do it.

We saw how SE used the banhammer on gardeners with no provocation, and this only seems like a desperate act to try to keep them away from their new baby, but they will kill their subscription base before it even forms.
741  Media / Multiplayer RPGs / Re: FFXIV Thread on: August 25, 2010, 10:36:12 PM
Elmer over at ZAM did a better translation of the post, which clarifies a few things. It's still bullshit however.
The limitation on the amount of points you can attain is set on a weekly timer. Once it passes a week since you first began leveling a particular skill, the limitation resets to zero. After it resets, it will come into effect again once you begin work on that skill once more.

Even if you are hit with this limitation during a one-week period, its detrimental effects decrease if you do not level that particular class. You can even recover back to the full 100% rate of point acquisition, so you do not always have to wait the full week for the limitations to go away.


This explains why leveling a different job removed the Surplus EXP I experienced in beta, but the fact that you still have general fatigue in physical EXP is still crap. The whole concept is Orwellian.
742  Media / Multiplayer RPGs / Re: FFXIV Thread on: August 25, 2010, 08:05:07 PM
They really just don't get their audience anymore at all apparently. I know there's a big trend in Asia right now to curb online game usage, but if this is a global market game, it needs to get with the times. I don't think there's anything more insulting for the western audience than to have their game time dictated by big brother. The fact that they continue to blame foreign sites (NA, EU) for misinformation is crap, because while the details weren't specific, the general concept was crystal clear. Now it's without a doubt a major stake through the heart of their game.
743  Media / Multiplayer RPGs / Re: FFXIV Thread on: August 25, 2010, 07:59:10 PM
Here it is for you all to read. Note, this was posted on the Japanese Beta Site, NOT on the North American one... how's that for respect.


We’d like to thank all the beta testers out there for their hard work and support! We’re applying all those ideas you’ve sent us to make for the best possible Open Beta test and official release.

Now we’d like to take a moment to answer the many questions we’ve received about character balance in the current B3 phase.

First off, the main concept behind FFXIV is allowing those players with little time on their hands to play effectively, and game balance is based off of that. Furthermore, it is being designed to not give those with more time on their hands to play an unfair advantage. Because of that, systems such as Guardian’s Favor (a bonus to Guildleves) have been implemented to make leveling in the short-term easier than leveling in the long-term.

To achieve this balance, the amount of possible skill/experience points earned after a certain period of time has a threshold. Think of it as real-life “fatigue” from working at improving your skills via battle *(aka. No one could train ad nauseam in the real world with no ill effects).

Within the first eight hours of play, you can earn 100% experience. The seven hour period following will see your possible experience gradually approach zero.

This system is on a weekly timer. After a week has passed since you began skilling that particular weapon, the timer will reset. It will start anew when you skill up again.

Any experience earned past that point is saved as “surplus.” There is surplus for each class, and if you begin to see it please consider playing another class and adjust accordingly.

However, experience points are not specific to any class and therefore the decrease in experience points is not affected by changing classes.

That’s how the system stands as of right now.

Also, this system wasn’t implemented just in B3 but was set in motion from the very start of beta. Despite this, we have received many opinions regarding it in B3. There are a few reasons why:

-B3 allowed for longer sessions in single sittings.
-In order to promote party play, skill/experience points earned were greatly increased.
-The skill/experience earned from weak enemies was lowered, but had failed to pop up on initial bug reports (and was later fixed via maintenance).

According to the last bug report skill/experience able to be earned was above what had been planned, therefore people hit the limit much more quickly than hoped for. That is the biggest cause. Yet another problem was that we were unable to adjust guildleve experience and the experience-earned limit at the same time.

Our lack of explanation regarding all of this was a mistake, and we heartily apologize.

This all is still currently under development, and we have plans to make the limit more palatable in answer to all the tester feedback we received concerning this. In particular we would like to address the speed with which experience begins to drop off and are already looking into it.
Also, since experience points fatigue carries over despite changing weapons, we plan to make it not so harsh.

At the very least, we promise to not have people hitting these limits in a short period of time, such as during the start of B3.

We would also like to make an announcement regarding something else.

The decrease in earnings when gathering is based on your actions taken with that class and is unrelated to the aforementioned limits. This is also currently under review and is planned for adjustment in accordance with many testers’ opinions.

Surplus experience is currently not being used. However, we have received many comments suggesting some sort of reward be put into effect regarding it, and we think that’s a pretty interesting idea. We don’t want to get ahead of ourselves, though, and we’re currently investigating the possibilities.

Open Beta will not just see changes to the issues stated above but will also see adjustments made to encourage party play even more (such as an increase to skill points), which the team is currently hard at work on adjusting. We hope you’ll all test it out when the time comes.

Finally, we would like to apologize for the lateness of any developer comments due to my attendance of Gamecom this past week. In my absence much fuss was raised over speculation, old information and some mistranslations on overseas fansites *(what?! /panic. Though I wonder what that’s in reference to in particular). I hope to avoid this from happening again by delivering developer comments as promptly as possible. Thank you all for your understanding.

And thanks in advance for your hard work to come in Open Beta!

Final Fantasy XIV director
Nobuaki Komoto


They just shot themselves in the fucking nuts with that one.
744  Media / Multiplayer RPGs / Re: FFXIV Thread on: August 25, 2010, 04:25:45 PM
Then why don't you go back to the Old Republic thread instead of trolling this one?  Last I checked this was for FFXIV discussion and speculation not ZOMG Old REpublikizbetr. Seriously, we have little enough to go on for concrete information on retail, let's just throw more wild speculation on another game with even less concrete data and compare them. It's bad enough we have to deal with vs WoW.
745  Media / Multiplayer RPGs / Re: FFXIV Thread on: August 25, 2010, 02:57:30 AM
Maybe egotistical is a better word, because I am too good to kill moles and rats.

So what if you're fighting badass creatures at first, you're still doing it 100 times per level, and you'll not give shit what the target is after the first 11 kills.

I'd be more concerned by what is implied by having to fight rats, like maybe the devs are stretching the content out to make it last longer.

That made me LOL. Thanks I needed that. Honestly I think you both have a point but I'll have to side with Fei on this one. Having a feeling of progression is kind of moot when your a bad ass out the box. I hardly think killing rats for 10 minutes hardly qualifies as game breaking. Sure the UI still needs help, but come on. Let's be honest. We are all going to buy the game and have a hard-on for it for at least a few weeks. The die hard fanboys in us all will swallow any swill necessary to get our next FF fix. Don't kid yourself.

Continuing this speculation is fruitless till open beta at the very least, and I dunno about the rest of you chaps but I'll be playing this to the hilt.
746  Media / Multiplayer RPGs / Re: FFXIV Thread on: August 25, 2010, 02:50:38 AM
He got it from Sankanku Complex.

Jesus Christ, he's posting that piece of shit? Where's my troll repellant? Looks like that same "facts" article got Tanaka all pissed off. He had a heck of a rant on his Twitter cause of it. You can check it out on the ZAM boards.
747  Media / Multiplayer RPGs / Re: FFXIV Thread on: August 24, 2010, 07:23:35 PM
* Fatigue goes up to about 50% in 2 hours, and it takes 2 days to go down. So, if you play 4 hours you have to stop playing completely for 2 days.
* Recovery takes time.
* 2 hours of combat or 1 hour of craft will induce "dormancy."
* The dormancy is actually shared over different characters.
* It will decrease gains to 0% in the end.
* It seems to be proportional to the amount of XP you earn.
* Both light and heavy players are affected.

Where are you getting this from? SE hasn't even determined how the system will work yet and is being changed almost every week. If you're going to bullet point "facts" at least site your source. Most of this is bullshit. Fatigue only affects skill points, not experience points. It's also not called Fatigue in the Beta it's Surplus. I played for 8 hours when the test came up and I didn't start getting surplus until several days in after I hit 21 on Lancer. It does not carry over at all between characters, nor does it carry over between jobs. It may be proportional to skill points, but skill gain is so random to begin with its almost impossible to test. One thing is true though, enough time on a single job and it will grind your Skill level to a halt, physical experience points are unaffected entirely.
748  Media / Multiplayer RPGs / Re: FFXIV Thread on: August 24, 2010, 10:39:13 AM
Their argument is that when say, Star Wars: TOR comes out, they won't be swinging light sabers at tiny forest creatures.

Fuzzy things to kill, they will. Sorry to hear your friends are closed minded, most of mine are too (the never ending erection for all things WoW). Guess its time to make some new ones. I don't think there's ever been an MMO that didn't start you out as a scrub. I doubt Old Republic will start players out being thrown into Jedi vs Sith fights from the get-go, trailers be damned, but I get your point. For what it's worth i'll be giving the game a thorough shakedown, at least until TERA comes out. If they haven't managed to satisfy my MMO cravings, i'll just move on. I really do hope SE is cognizant of how much of an uphill battle they have to fight. I really would like to see them take a well deserved place in the genre, but only time will tell.
749  Media / Multiplayer RPGs / Re: FFXIV Thread on: August 23, 2010, 09:02:25 AM
True but name me any new MMO that has ever had a sterling launch and didn't have bleed off the first month. Even WoW had major issues its first month.
750  Media / Multiplayer RPGs / Re: FFXIV Thread on: August 23, 2010, 12:36:48 AM
My advice, wait till open beta because right now everything is in speculation. Sadly we are all too likely to promote doomsday scenarios and fixes like the revamping or removal of the Fatigue system is possible and likely. At the end of the day it's all about money and I doubt SE is in the business of shooting themselves in the foot so close to Cataclysm, TERA and Old Republic release. They know competition is going to be heavy, and I would not be suprised to see a major reworking of mechanics shortly after launch if they loose alot of subscribers after the first month.
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