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Next Quiz Date: January 11, 2014
Subject: 999 (Nintendo DS)
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6406  Media / Single-Player RPGs / Re: What makes for a good RPG sequel? on: June 06, 2009, 08:42:00 PM
HRM HRM HRM.

That stuff does sound good but I mean, economically, I never finished Persona 3, and it STILL doesn't sound like the two games are different enough.

I think, honestly, my single biggest complaint with Persona 3 was when I realized that I was working on raising my education stat and charm stat and that really, in real life, I should've just been studying or going out and making friends. Except I never did the former because I'm chronically lazy (and I still somehow have a 3.81 GPA, and got in an A in Russian last semester, even though I have less proficiency in Russian now than ever before), and I never did the latter because my university's situated in what is for all intents and purposes a ghost town. Thanks for making me feel utterly disappointed in everything, Atlus.
6407  Media / Single-Player RPGs / Re: RPGs that critics love but fans of the series hate. on: June 06, 2009, 06:28:27 PM
From a mechanics standpoint I think Oblivion is sound, but the quest structure was... very similar from one town to the next and kind of lacking, and you don't really NOTICE this till you've been playing it for awhile.

Of course, Daggerfall fans say Morrowind was dumbed down, too, but I can't think of anything positive to say about Daggerfall's gameplay at all. Removing skills is not dumbing things down if the skills didn't serve any purpose in the original game, kids.
6408  Media / Single-Player RPGs / Re: RPGs that critics love but fans of the series hate. on: June 06, 2009, 05:23:28 PM
I know RPGFan finishes games. I don't think a lot of review sites do (Screw what they claim. They're lying bastards). But sometimes when you're sort of rushing through a game quality drops aren't as noticeable. Or maybe he actually liked it. I don't know. This and many other questions are unanswered.

What I was saying in the other topic still applies for me, personally. I don't judge a game based on its series. In general I don't go into a new game really expecting anything (even if I read reviews. Screw what they claim. They're lying bastards). To an extent I can assume that I'd like another game in a series if I liked other games in a series, but execution can vary a great deal.

I mean, I don't even really have anything I'd call a favorite game, so I can't be like, "Yeah, I'm really champing at the bit for a sequel to this thing."

Also, I can't say there are very many games out their that epitomize what my personal concepts of game design are, so again, no real situation where I'd necessarily want one game to play exactly like another. That and RPGs are long. A 60 hour game is about three games worth of game so it's not like I'd feel the need for a sequel anyway.
6409  The Rest / General Discussions / Re: RPGFan Super Game Journal Turbo II - The New Challengers on: June 06, 2009, 05:14:49 PM
Did the Red Dragon in CC. nmiaow. The boss battles are really fun, especially if you try to game the timing/elemental system so that you can use the summons. Fargo's awesome. I still maintain that this and most JRPGs would be fun without non-boss battles.

Also I tried doing the Dario fight. That was a goddamn trainwreck.
6410  Media / Single-Player RPGs / Re: What makes for a good RPG sequel? on: June 06, 2009, 05:12:42 PM
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they're optional after all and I found that most of them were more trouble than they were worth.

I don't think you get it. I'm OCD.

(In all seriousness I'm not THAT OCD although I do have certain OCDish tendencies, typically relating to my microwave).

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P4 is better in just about every way and the gameplay is a lot more balanced & interesting.

How? I'm interested in this.

Speaking of irritating optional things in Persona games, that damn mapmaker thing in Persona 2. Are there any good rewards for doing that?
6411  Media / Single-Player RPGs / Re: RPGs that critics love but fans of the series hate. on: June 06, 2009, 02:42:52 PM
In regards to FFXII, it STARTS really good and starts to kind of crap out eventually. That might be why you get a lot of good reviews for it.

The other problem is that I can't honestly thing of a JRPG that has handled a political storyline well (and I don't play Suikoden games so maybe those do but whatever), and FFXII certainly did not, in my eyes, have the quality of writing or level of confidence and maturity to actually approach that subject without it becoming really silly. In general politics in RPGs are very exaggerated, generalized, and not at all like real-world politics.

And maybe the biggest flaw WAS that it didn't really focus on its characters because people, after all, ARE politicians and ARE at the center of politics.

You also need strong characters for the player to associate with these concepts. IF you're just shooting off ideas, you don't have a story. You have a manifesto.

This is why nobody reads that one part of 1984 that's just Goldstien's Book. It's abstract, boring, and nothing but Orwell getting on a soapbox and furiously masturbating for 80 pages.

Of course, gameplay was, I didn't think FFXII was that big of a departure. The license board was sort of a modified sphere grid. The battles were still based around ATB. The difference is that they took place on the main map and you could walk away at any time. The Gambit system is just AI scripting and you could turn it off if you wanted. I think that's why it started disappointing me later on. The further I got, I realized that the gameplay WAS pretty much the same as it always had been, just gussied up a bit.

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If a hypothetical Grandia IV was the best Grandia game in terms of characters and play mechanics, BUT was a hard sci-fi game rather than fantasy, who would be first to cry foul that it isn't Grandia?

Grandia feels more sega to me than strictly fantasy, or strictly grandia, even. Sci-fi is within the boundaries of Sega's typical work -- Phantasy Star and Skies of Arcadfia, for instance. And it's not like Grandia 1 didn't have gobs of sci-fi elements anyway.

In general fans bitch about anything. So I mean potentially, you could probably apply this to ANY game, except for cases where the sequel really is better than the original in every way and you can't really come up with a reasonable argument otherwise. Although, reasonable being the operative word there.

Fans bitch about everything!

Anyway, Daggerfall really comes to mind here. Because I hate it. And Morrowind got great reviews, and the Daggerfall fans hated it. And I think the Daggerfall fans are stupid for huge numbers of reasons I could enumerate. In general though they're the kind of people that want to sacrifice fun for realism, though, which is horrible game design.

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RPGamer forums.

>:( Tidwell >:(

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Didn't someone once say that the opposite of love isn't hate.  The opposite of love is apathy.  

My 6th grade science teacher did, once.
6412  Media / Single-Player RPGs / Re: What makes for a good RPG sequel? on: June 06, 2009, 02:27:01 PM
"Hey go find three wizzdangs that are only dropped by RED ENEMIES found between floors 70 AND 80 and you have five days to do it."
6413  The Rest / General Discussions / Re: It's official: the world is fucking insane. on: June 06, 2009, 02:25:35 PM
I think this is relevant:

http://www.musicsonglyrics.com/D/daftpunklyrics/daftpunksuperheroeslyrics.htm
6414  The Rest / General Discussions / Re: EA: Girls, your value is as vapid fashionistas on: June 06, 2009, 02:17:53 PM
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And River Raid is one of the finest and most technically sophisticated on 2600 games too.

Lies!!! ALTERNATE REALITY!! ALTERNATE REALITY! BEST GAME EVER!!!!!!!!1111one

God I hate Alternate Reality.

Reading about how River Raid works on the uh, wikipedia, it DOES sound pretty technically accomplished. So basically all of the attack patterns are procedural?
6415  Media / Single-Player RPGs / Re: Villains MIA topic... on: June 06, 2009, 10:44:21 AM
I had a longer post typed up but screw that.

I said LoM had good villains. I didn't say it was *fun*.
6416  Media / Single-Player RPGs / Re: Villains MIA topic... on: June 05, 2009, 10:50:31 PM
You know, screw villains.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Kittinger

Make an RPG about THAT guy. Your goal is to pull of the jump in whatever way possible and your only enemies are time and gravity.
6417  The Rest / General Discussions / Re: RPGFan Super Game Journal Turbo II - The New Challengers on: June 05, 2009, 07:37:24 PM
I sort of stopped gaming when I got Korg DS. It's... funner than games.

I also keep trying to play secret of mana but I just don't find it fun anymore. i don't really like anything from that series anymore.
6418  Media / Single-Player RPGs / Re: Villains MIA topic... on: June 05, 2009, 10:15:26 AM
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Second it required SaGa levels of exploration to find anything of note

No, it didn't. Usually walking into a newly-opened land was enough to start a quest there, and almost every land HAD a quest present in it as soon as it was placed. I think the Pirate Ship and some of the Dragon related-areas didn't. Around five or so just trigger automatically after a while when you go to your home. I mean there were SOME fairly obscure quests (The Nic line, Gilbert line, and the three or so that required domina to have a specific mana level. These amount to maybe 11 quests total. The second quest in the fairy storyline also has odd start requirements. So let's say 12) but not the majority of them.

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Dragoon arc was both the easiest to find

What, no. The Jumi arc is the easiest to find. You start it by walking into the pub in domina, which is the third building you see in the entire game. And almost every artifact you get from the quests open up lands that are strictly relevant to the Jumi arc. And a lot of quests start themselves just by going to the relevant area.

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First its gameplay was horribly broken

It's Square. What do you expect :( It works a lot better on hard mode, though (especially if you use someone like Larc as a companion, because the AI for the fighter characters is far, far more functional for some reason).

Also I have to note this just because I was playing both recently, but in general the partner AI isn't nearly as bad as I remember. It's maybe on par with SoM, but nowhere near SD3's quality. Only Bud and Pearl are completely and totally useless. Like, Larc is really effective and Lisa manages to hold her own, somehow. Lisa is odd since she SHOULD have the same AI settings as Bud. I think it's because her broom counts as a spear and his pan counts as a 1h axe, which effects attack range. IDK.

SoM's oddity with Sprite behaving like a tard might be because most of the weapons he's good with are ranged, and ranged weapons behave weird and the AI grid isn't really intuitive for them.

---edit---

Wait what does this have to do with villains.

Here's an interesting thought. Giygas isn't remembered for anything he DID because he didn't do a lot, but rather his vague and incomprehensible creepiness. Giygas was, ultimately, just a twisted face/fetus displayed as a background.

His aesthetic's really important since visually it's hard to discern even what he is. The thing is, square did similar things with some of its bosses, like Zeromus. Except Zeromus... well, it's Gigerish, but it looks like an alien with a severed dong (http://www.ffinsider.net/final-fantasy-4/sprites/boss/Zeromus2.gif srsly it does). It's WEIRD but it's not incomprehensible.

Giygas was just red and black fractal noise in the shape of a horrified face/baby.

Alternatively, keep watching the What ARe You PLaying? thread for my EVENTUAL let's play/screenshot tour of tong nou, as I attempt to explain why it's creepy and weird.
6419  Media / Single-Player RPGs / Re: What makes for a good RPG sequel? on: June 05, 2009, 08:51:05 AM
I don't really care much about story continuity between games in series or whatever, partially because I don't think JRPGs tend to have good storylines, but mostly because I never beat games anyway, and usually don't even get up to the parts where stories start getting into full swing, honestly (which is maybe why I don't get into JRPG storylines that much :3). I usually only play RPGs up to the point where new gameplay elements stop getting introduced, which is typically around the 15-25 hour mark, and unless I find the gameplay hugely fun, I don't really see any point continuing because I'd just be doing the same exact thing over and over again for another 40 hours. 15-25 hours is plenty long for a game anyway. I feel that my purchase was validated at that point.

This is also why I tend to judge sequels on their own merits too. The odds of me having been interested enough in the previous entry's gameplay mechanics to want to see them repeated is pretty slim. Especially if I feel like I saw everything there was to see from the previous entree's gameplay, if the new game is really close to the first in gameplay and doesn't improve balance or something drastically, I'm going to be even LESS interested in it.

Partially this is why I don't have P4. I don't care about the improvements. The one thing that bugged me in P3 was apparently not addressed in P4, and otherwise the games sound incredibly similar from a gameplay standpoint. On the other hand, I thought DS1 had some nice ideas but wasn't very fun, whereas DS2 fixes all of my complaints with the first game.

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I'm thinking a sequel to a story that the writers really wanted to do is more likely to be good than some (heavily controlled?) attempt at cashing in, and it doesn't help for a lot of RPGs that a setting is completely exhausted for a sequel.

Well, I think this is kind of what happened with CC. Kato and some of the other minor writers from CT went off on their own and did it because they were the only ones really interested in it. If the rest of the Dream Team had been reassembled, despite their apparent complete lack of interest in doing such a thing, you probably would've had a direct sequel to CT that wouldn't have pissed off the fans but nevertheless would've been completely uninteresting (and would likely play very similar to CT, but would still have the rather rubbishy balancing because Square could not make a well-balanced game if their life depended on it, and so not really FIX anything in the previous game, and thus be completely superfluous).

Anyway though, as I've said elsewhere before once or twice, maybe, I have my own theory as to why most fans don't like sequels to games they really like, and it's more of a mental thing than anything to do with the game itself.

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If you really think about it, Dragon Quarter fits exactly with the rest of Breath of Fire canon.

DQ was the only BoF game I kind of liked, at all, so I guess I'd personally consider it a good sequel.
6420  Media / Single-Player RPGs / Re: Cross Edge for PS3 thoughts? on: June 05, 2009, 12:43:13 AM
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Then again, I hear IGN's reviews are questionable.

They gave Korg DS a 7 because it wasn't a complete music package. It's a goddamn synthesizer it's not supposed to be jesus christ.
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