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Subject: Persona 3: FES
Prize: $20 eShop, PSN or Steam code
Date: 3rd October 2014 Time: 16:00 EST
332836 Posts in 13638 Topics by 2191 Members
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6526  The Rest / General Discussions / Re: RPGFan Super Game Journal Turbo II - The New Challengers on: June 05, 2009, 07:37:24 PM
I sort of stopped gaming when I got Korg DS. It's... funner than games.

I also keep trying to play secret of mana but I just don't find it fun anymore. i don't really like anything from that series anymore.
6527  Media / Single-Player RPGs / Re: Villains MIA topic... on: June 05, 2009, 10:15:26 AM
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Second it required SaGa levels of exploration to find anything of note

No, it didn't. Usually walking into a newly-opened land was enough to start a quest there, and almost every land HAD a quest present in it as soon as it was placed. I think the Pirate Ship and some of the Dragon related-areas didn't. Around five or so just trigger automatically after a while when you go to your home. I mean there were SOME fairly obscure quests (The Nic line, Gilbert line, and the three or so that required domina to have a specific mana level. These amount to maybe 11 quests total. The second quest in the fairy storyline also has odd start requirements. So let's say 12) but not the majority of them.

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Dragoon arc was both the easiest to find

What, no. The Jumi arc is the easiest to find. You start it by walking into the pub in domina, which is the third building you see in the entire game. And almost every artifact you get from the quests open up lands that are strictly relevant to the Jumi arc. And a lot of quests start themselves just by going to the relevant area.

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First its gameplay was horribly broken

It's Square. What do you expect :( It works a lot better on hard mode, though (especially if you use someone like Larc as a companion, because the AI for the fighter characters is far, far more functional for some reason).

Also I have to note this just because I was playing both recently, but in general the partner AI isn't nearly as bad as I remember. It's maybe on par with SoM, but nowhere near SD3's quality. Only Bud and Pearl are completely and totally useless. Like, Larc is really effective and Lisa manages to hold her own, somehow. Lisa is odd since she SHOULD have the same AI settings as Bud. I think it's because her broom counts as a spear and his pan counts as a 1h axe, which effects attack range. IDK.

SoM's oddity with Sprite behaving like a tard might be because most of the weapons he's good with are ranged, and ranged weapons behave weird and the AI grid isn't really intuitive for them.

---edit---

Wait what does this have to do with villains.

Here's an interesting thought. Giygas isn't remembered for anything he DID because he didn't do a lot, but rather his vague and incomprehensible creepiness. Giygas was, ultimately, just a twisted face/fetus displayed as a background.

His aesthetic's really important since visually it's hard to discern even what he is. The thing is, square did similar things with some of its bosses, like Zeromus. Except Zeromus... well, it's Gigerish, but it looks like an alien with a severed dong (http://www.ffinsider.net/final-fantasy-4/sprites/boss/Zeromus2.gif srsly it does). It's WEIRD but it's not incomprehensible.

Giygas was just red and black fractal noise in the shape of a horrified face/baby.

Alternatively, keep watching the What ARe You PLaying? thread for my EVENTUAL let's play/screenshot tour of tong nou, as I attempt to explain why it's creepy and weird.
6528  Media / Single-Player RPGs / Re: What makes for a good RPG sequel? on: June 05, 2009, 08:51:05 AM
I don't really care much about story continuity between games in series or whatever, partially because I don't think JRPGs tend to have good storylines, but mostly because I never beat games anyway, and usually don't even get up to the parts where stories start getting into full swing, honestly (which is maybe why I don't get into JRPG storylines that much :3). I usually only play RPGs up to the point where new gameplay elements stop getting introduced, which is typically around the 15-25 hour mark, and unless I find the gameplay hugely fun, I don't really see any point continuing because I'd just be doing the same exact thing over and over again for another 40 hours. 15-25 hours is plenty long for a game anyway. I feel that my purchase was validated at that point.

This is also why I tend to judge sequels on their own merits too. The odds of me having been interested enough in the previous entry's gameplay mechanics to want to see them repeated is pretty slim. Especially if I feel like I saw everything there was to see from the previous entree's gameplay, if the new game is really close to the first in gameplay and doesn't improve balance or something drastically, I'm going to be even LESS interested in it.

Partially this is why I don't have P4. I don't care about the improvements. The one thing that bugged me in P3 was apparently not addressed in P4, and otherwise the games sound incredibly similar from a gameplay standpoint. On the other hand, I thought DS1 had some nice ideas but wasn't very fun, whereas DS2 fixes all of my complaints with the first game.

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I'm thinking a sequel to a story that the writers really wanted to do is more likely to be good than some (heavily controlled?) attempt at cashing in, and it doesn't help for a lot of RPGs that a setting is completely exhausted for a sequel.

Well, I think this is kind of what happened with CC. Kato and some of the other minor writers from CT went off on their own and did it because they were the only ones really interested in it. If the rest of the Dream Team had been reassembled, despite their apparent complete lack of interest in doing such a thing, you probably would've had a direct sequel to CT that wouldn't have pissed off the fans but nevertheless would've been completely uninteresting (and would likely play very similar to CT, but would still have the rather rubbishy balancing because Square could not make a well-balanced game if their life depended on it, and so not really FIX anything in the previous game, and thus be completely superfluous).

Anyway though, as I've said elsewhere before once or twice, maybe, I have my own theory as to why most fans don't like sequels to games they really like, and it's more of a mental thing than anything to do with the game itself.

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If you really think about it, Dragon Quarter fits exactly with the rest of Breath of Fire canon.

DQ was the only BoF game I kind of liked, at all, so I guess I'd personally consider it a good sequel.
6529  Media / Single-Player RPGs / Re: Cross Edge for PS3 thoughts? on: June 05, 2009, 12:43:13 AM
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Then again, I hear IGN's reviews are questionable.

They gave Korg DS a 7 because it wasn't a complete music package. It's a goddamn synthesizer it's not supposed to be jesus christ.
6530  Media / Single-Player RPGs / Re: What makes for a good RPG sequel? on: June 05, 2009, 12:38:35 AM
Well, Kato DID say CC wasn't really intended as a *sequel*. And I mean, it's really not except in some very vague sense. The gameplay is different, and while the story relates to the first game and happens because of those events, it's its own self contained thing. Can you really say it's a terrible sequel if sequel-ness wasn't the main intent?

I really don't buy the notion that CC retconned CT though. I mean, it didn't in the sense that every change CC did to CT canon happened after CT ended (as much as that concept matters in a story that doesn't really have linear time). It altered what happened to Schala, but nothing it did really like... changed the nature of Lavos, or any of the established characters.

Retconning is more what that DS port of CT did with its completely incoherent alternate endings that don't have anything to do with established canon from either CT or CC which make Schala even for no apparent reason.
6531  Media / Single-Player RPGs / Re: Villains MIA topic... on: June 05, 2009, 12:31:33 AM
Legend of Mana had some interesting villains, especially in regards to the storyline with Matilda and the fairies. Absolutely *nobody* was in the right in that thing. Escad and Irwin are the ones played up as the bad guys, with Irwin being more anti-hero and Escad, thematically, sort of being the main villain in the entire game, but even Matilda's pretty similar to Escad in her single-minded zealotry.

It's sort of like how if you take the laugh track out of Everyone Loves Raymond, you get a Chekhov play. Or not.
6532  Media / Single-Player RPGs / Re: What makes for a good RPG sequel? on: June 05, 2009, 12:16:02 AM
Phantasy Star is an interesting example. In each game they sort of rebuild things from the ground up, despite every game being a loose story sequel. PS4 was a very oddly prescient game. It came out in 1993 in Japan, but its style and general execution is... so far AHEAD of pretty much anything else at the time. I think PS1 has aged quite well despite some grinding early one, but Phantasy Star 2 and 3 were grindfests and not really a lot of fun from a modern perspective. They're not really MODERN games. They don't have that ahead-of-its-time-ness that PSI had, if you will.

PSIV is maybe what I'd call the first modern JRPG. Even to this day it has an incredibly tight narrative structure that melds very well with the game which is especially odd since PS2 and 3 were rather bad about that.
6533  Media / Single-Player RPGs / Re: Black Sigil: Blade of the Exiled for DS. Anyone have updates? on: June 05, 2009, 12:06:50 AM
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Early Shin Megami Tensei games had ridiculous encounter rates too, and enemies would often come in multiple waves.

Quite! Difference, though: Spells were more damaging, you had more MP to play with, and auto battle was actually really, realy quick. Also, not even Persona 1 had dungeons as loopy as PS2's and Persona 1 pretty much had the wackiest dungeons in the whole super-series.

Also, generic comment about no random battles anywhere, more boss battles, boss battles only, and all battles must be unique and interesting.

Personally though speaking of PS2, arbitrary, awkwardly designed dungeons with very little interaction are my second biggest pet peeve from the SNES era. Endless lists of magic spells, most of them useless, is my other biggest pet peeve, which is why I sort of consider BoF2 to be pretty much garbage.
6534  Media / Single-Player RPGs / Re: What makes for a good RPG sequel? on: June 04, 2009, 11:42:27 PM
In b4 Prime Mover calling Chrono Cross cynical and me beating the hell out of Prime Mover with a dictionary so he can actually learn what 'cynical' means.

(Random list of things I didn't like in CC:
* Prone to navel gazing. Like every JRPG ever.
* Non-boss battles weren't terribly fun. Like every JRPG ever.
* Slow battles. Technically not strictly a gameplay issue but something to do with the game being capped at like 40 FPS for some retarded reason.
* later on, CT did a lot of stuff with set encounters that ended up being pretty unique. Ct's the only game I know of that really did this.
* finding the optional summons is pretty impossible without an FAQ.

Random list of things I liked in CC:

* Status attacks had near 100% chance of working.
* Elemental strengths and weaknesses readily apparent.
* Lots of interactive bits in the dungeons. This is my favorite thing about CT, too.
* Lots of optional events, like all of the level 7 combo stuff.

Random list of common pet peeves about CC that I don't give a shit about:

* No real combo system. Big deal, whatever. This was CT's shtick. It worked alright there. I don't care about combo systems much in general.
* Character development. CT's cast wasn't that well developed outside of like Frog and Lucca, and while it's true that a lot of CC's cast isn't developed at all, a goodish number of them are. Except nobody realizes this because they only focus on bastards like Draggy and Fairtytits which aren't really important and are just there for fun. There IS a core cast of characters that are really important to the story and you can tell because they get screen time and have character development.
* Silent protag. Actually this bugs me here but CT did it to so what the hells you gonna do about it. And CC might've had some sort of thematic relevance for it since there is an undercurrent that Serge isn't anything more than what he's externally defined as (See: Serge is a Ghost! Serge is Lynx!)
* Battles don't happen on the map. This looked cool, but it was pretty strictly aesthetic.

Random thing that annoys me the most about CC:

* The question of authorial intent. Personally, I don't think the Time Devourer mattered that much, and that Schala was more of a bonus plot point and not the main reason for the story. However, I might be wrong and it's impossible to get inside of Kato's head and eat delicious filling. I really DON'T know what the game is about. Wacky sci-fi adventure? Southern gothic-flavored romance about Clan Viper and Clan Fargo? A love story about Serge, Kid, and Harle? A story about exploring what-ifs, where the main driving stuff is sort of accessory to the alternate realities explored? I really don't know and never will and it's drivin me nutz.
)
6535  Media / Single-Player RPGs / Re: What makes for a good RPG sequel? on: June 04, 2009, 08:54:48 PM
RPG sequels only exist to make fanboys bitch because the sole purpose of the gaming community isn't to play games but to bitch about how gaming sucks now.

And if I'M buying a sequel it's because I'm a consumer whore.

Okay, in all seriousness? I'm looking for whether the game is fun or not. Fuck its predecessors. Fuck its sequels both real and potential. I am judging the game on its own merits because the notion of a series in a JRPG terms is freaking irrelevant unless it's like Dragon Quest or something where individual games in the series actually PLAY like their relatives.
6536  The Rest / General Discussions / Re: EA: Girls, your value is as vapid fashionistas on: June 04, 2009, 05:25:20 PM
I'm trying to think of a decent response to this but I really can't. It's more pathologic than immaturity or bad taste. They don't think. They're automata. This city doesn't exist.
6537  Media / Single-Player RPGs / Re: Black Sigil: Blade of the Exiled for DS. Anyone have updates? on: June 04, 2009, 05:07:32 PM
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battles every 2 seconds the way I did back when I played Phantasy Star 2.

PS2's encounter rate isn't really THAT high. It just seems that way because you move slow as hell and the dungeons are endless and most of your spells are about as useful as tits on a boar.
6538  The Rest / General Discussions / Re: EA: Girls, your value is as vapid fashionistas on: June 03, 2009, 05:34:30 PM
Tomara, the pink phase might lose its pink, but it still can go on for awhile. See: My 20-year-old coworkers last year that liked Hannah Montana.

Then again, I watch kid's shows on PBS (but that's just because I'm a dissapointed, unhappy manchild having to cope with the fact that all of my dreams are dead and I'm never going to amount to anything. Hurray !!)
6539  The Rest / General Discussions / Re: EA: Girls, your value is as vapid fashionistas on: June 02, 2009, 10:18:19 PM
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Until they make a "Synthesizer Hero", I'm just fine.

It's called Korg DS-10 and it's awesome and it's not a game and I have no idea why people keep calling it a game.
6540  The Rest / General Discussions / Re: RPGFan Super Game Journal Turbo II - The New Challengers on: June 02, 2009, 10:09:38 PM
So I discovered that I can pretty much get Larc whenever I want in LoM. As I mentioned earlier, since Larc is primarily fighting oriented, his AI is more effective than Bud and Lisa's. This makes fights a LOT smoother since he's not backed into a corner and casting not-useful spells all the time. He's still not perfect since he's not very seek-and-destroy, and he's an axe user and axes have the tiniest goddamn hit arc in the game, but whatever. Jolly good fun. I did the Gato quest I'd been prolonging. I think I'll do the golem making stuff next. Or stuff with Daena.

Also played SD3 a bit. I just beat the Golem... triplets. I think I misjudged this game. It's really got some nice gameplay mechanics. I just maintain that Duran is the fuckingest boringest character in the game.
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