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6646  The Rest / General Discussions / Re: RPGFan Game Journal XX - Sharpened Pencil Midnight Bathouse on: October 21, 2009, 02:44:24 PM
I got the kids and I've been wandering around trying to level them up, but with no particular quests to go on yet it's getting kind of boring.

... Why are you grinding in DQ5? Was there some mandatory grind and wait part at the beginning, like with Torneko in DQIV..?
6647  Media / The Soundroom / Re: The Recent Musical Purchases Thread on: October 21, 2009, 03:11:51 AM
Okay, stuff I actually bought.

Wild Beasts - Two Dancers (Downloadable purchase)
Wild Beasts - Limbo, Panto (Found at a Half Price Books and More)
Fleetwood Mac - Rumours
Fleetwood Mac - Fleetwood Mac (Not really as good as Rumours. McVie's sort of inconsistent. I wonder how Tusk is).
Over the Rhine - Drunkard's Prayer (This is so awesome).
6648  The Rest / General Discussions / Re: RPGFan Game Journal XX - Sharpened Pencil Midnight Bathouse on: October 21, 2009, 02:18:43 AM
After a bit of fiddling, I got Riven working. Beautiful game.

Also my internet seems to be working. Let's see if I can apply to gradschool.
6649  The Rest / General Discussions / Re: Legendary Rpgfan forums discussions... on: October 20, 2009, 02:06:29 PM
Vad ar den har "oil of cloves" story about which you speak ???
6650  The Rest / General Discussions / Re: RPGFan Game Journal XX - Sharpened Pencil Midnight Bathouse on: October 20, 2009, 02:02:43 PM
It was harder to figure out where you were last. I remember the game wasn't as good at tracking your progress.

Wait, how does P1 PSP track your progress Does it like light up the path you've been down?

P1 on the PSX had an automap although I seem to be the only person that realized that.

Anyway, to the other guy, do you know what her elemental strengths/weaknesses are? Are what sort of attacks she uses a lot of? Just fuse new personas to counter that I guess.
6651  The Rest / General Discussions / Re: RPGFan Game Journal XX - Sharpened Pencil Midnight Bathouse on: October 19, 2009, 05:39:36 PM
This is exactly where I left off in the original version, but the lack of a good mapping system made this a chore.

What was wrong with the original Persona 1's mapping system?
6652  The Rest / General Discussions / Re: Legendary Rpgfan forums discussions... on: October 19, 2009, 05:36:24 PM
Should we be frightened that stuff like animal dildos (i.e. the Thor horse one that's bigger than my forearm), Russian people getting their penises mauled by furry woodland creatures, and eroge recommendations have become so nonchalant at RPGFan?

Well, there's a lot of overlap with the anime watching community. And I think there's far weirder stuff in anime.

Or japanese movies in general. Freaky forest much?
6653  Media / Single-Player RPGs / Re: Which of these SRPGs should I pick up? on: October 19, 2009, 05:22:57 PM
I didn't really care for Odin Sphere much. I think that if you want an RPG/Beat-em-up hybrid, you're better sticking with the old standbies of like, River City Ransom and Dynasty Warriors. Odin Sphere's biggest problem, to me, was sort of those gimmicky stages where you constantly take environmental damage unless you cast some sort of anti-environmental-damage potion. These really only exist to make you grind for potion ingredients. This sort of compounds with the repetition issues somethin' awful.

I didn't like Disgaea when I first played it because it's sort of a grindfest but holy shit that was seven years ago. The battle mechanics I RECALL being pretty strong. Also the levelling was probably pretty fast. I think my issue was I hit some earlyish mission where you had to level up item world things, and some random number generation shit kept fuckin' me over. I don't know. Disgaea's probably good.
6654  Media / Miscellaneous Games / Re: Most under-rated games ever? on: October 19, 2009, 02:22:18 AM
When something about a design is good, that defines it as good design.

Eliminating flaws is a good design *practice* but it does not ensure a good end-product design. If you have a product that consists of nothing but flaws, eliminating all of the flaws leaves you with a flawless batch of nothing, which is essentially what I'd describe CT as. It's flawless strictly on the grounds that it doesn't do very much. It doesn't take risks. It doesn't really do anything new. It's a very standard game that only stands out because it came out in an area of universally sub-standard games.

Chrono Trigger got away from both these problems by not subjecting the player to endless mazes, and also by making world navigation painless.

You mention painless a lot, either directly or by proxy, in comparison to other 16-bit era games. But since when does painless mean fun?

I've played through it maybe three times. The first time I played it, it was my favorite game, and I've been enjoying it less and less ever since. There's very little new to see on repeated playthroughs. I can't replay it and get something new from it. I've seen all... seven or so of the sidequests it has. There aren't anymore of them out there. I've gotten Magus. I did that thing with the locked chest. I haven't seen all the endings, but they're not really worth it and they're mostly just based on when you beat Lavos.

What more am I supposed to get out of it?

When I replay it I get really aware of how painfully short Zeal is, or how small and irrelevant the towns are. There's nothing to explore or really get lost in. Yes, it shuffles you along at a fast pace and there's nothing irrelevant, but... I want to play the goddamn game. I don't want to be pushed along like I'm at some sort of timeshare tour. It's just... there's nothing there anymore except pretty music and nice graphics.
6655  Media / Single-Player RPGs / Re: Which of these SRPGs should I pick up? on: October 19, 2009, 12:20:14 AM
Odin Sphere isn't an SRPG. It's a beat-em-up with some RPGish elements.
6656  The Rest / General Discussions / Re: Youtube on: October 18, 2009, 11:44:46 PM
6657  Media / Miscellaneous Games / Re: Most under-rated games ever? on: October 18, 2009, 08:15:23 PM
How is Alpha Centauri underrated..?

Also I have to admit I never got that far in Summoner 2 but absolutely adored what I played. Great example of allowing character customization while keeping everyone unique.

RPGs up until Chrono Trigger were largely bogged down by slow pacing and artificial difficulty levels. CT eliminated a lot of that.

Eliminating egregiously bad is not good game design so much as it's something that should just be common sense. CT's corrections to the RPG formula don't so much speak for CT's quality in and of itself so much as they indicate how much of an absolute nadir RPGs were in prior to it.

It's actual novel gameplay additions are rather slight, and I'd have a hard time saying it added anything new from a strictly-mechanics standpoint outside of combo attacks, as the improvements to dungeons was more of a level-design thing, and the battles on the map thing was... strictly visual.

As to the payoff between individual or team-up attacks: I don't know where you're getting that.

I'm getting it from me replaying CT this summer. A lot (*not* all) of the double attacks only do marginally more damage than their component attacks would together, unless you're hitting an elemental weakness in which case the double techs are actually generally stronger, but elemental weaknesses weren't ever hugely important *except* for a few fights, and except for a few dungeons, you wouldn't even be messing with techs for regular fights.

Triple techs I never really even bothered with and never really suffered for it. I've generally heard they weren't worth messing with from other people, too.

Do you base a game's value solely on balance alone?

It depends on the genre, although I place a *huge* emphasis on balance for strategy games and traditional RPGs.

Strategy games, as a genre, are entirely built around balance. If balance is blown, the entire game is blown. This should be fairly self-evident.

As far as traditional RPGs go, they're generally turn-based, menu-driven, and lacking in novel gameplay mechanics. As I said, CT's main addition was combos. And selecting a combo from a menu is no more fun than selecting a regular attack from a menu, so balance is pretty important here. I'll post up some points on balance I made earlier, later.

The other important thing, to me, for RPGs, is dungeon/town/area design. This is harder for me to explain, though, so I won't.

I'd also place a really big emphasis on interactivity, but JRPGs don't really do this, so whatever.

For action games... level design is probably the most important thing throughout, with balance taking a back seat EXCEPT for arena-type games like Q3 or UT where balance is really fucking important to playability, because otherwise you get a single god weapon and it's too easy to lock out the match by getting said weapon and camping the weapon's spawn point.

For single player FPSes, I think weapon *novelty* is more important than outright balance. like, weapons with unique functions and, of course, the game providing you with opportunities to use these functions. Although really well-balanced weapons can sometimes do just as well. Depends on the level design, truthfully, which is why I really do think level design is the main guiding factor for FPSes and other action games.

Nice graphics, music, and story are always a plus, but the actual quality of the a/v and writing side of things will rarely, rarely change my opinion of a game unless it's something like Earthbound where the writing is exceptional enough to overcome the fact that the gameplay doesn't really have much merit (although I do find the area design to be pretty neat, especially the cities).

Of course, if I was still 12, I'd be QUITE happy to ignore the actual gameplay, and, say, use a certain character because I liked their personality or thought they were neat looking or something. This is because 12 year olds are smart enough not to analyze everything into oblivion.
6658  Media / Miscellaneous Games / Re: Most under-rated games ever? on: October 17, 2009, 11:20:31 PM
Chrono Trigger is an example of excellent game design

No, it's not. The balance is wrong, both in the sense of the game being far too easy and in the sense of combo attack costs not really being matched to combo effectiveness (and combo effectiveness v. individual attack effectiveness being sort of flakey), and like most of Square's SNES games there's no gameplay outside of the battle system, except in this case it's even lacking character player-controlled character advancement.

Also, one of the major features -- that is, non-random battles -- sort of falls apart near the end of the game when they either get really hard to avoid or you hit "enemies just jump out of nowhere" points.

It doesn't require grind, and it marks a shift away from really stupid, large, empty mazelike dungeons towards dungeons that work more like semi-cinematic setpieces, which has sort of been the standard for RPGs since.

It's fun and it's non-offensive and it's probably better than Square's other 16-bit traditional RPGs, but I'd really be hard pressed saying it's actually an example of *good* game design, given that the mechanics are so slight and poorly balanced.
6659  The Rest / General Discussions / Re: RPGFan Game Journal XX - Sharpened Pencil Midnight Bathouse on: October 17, 2009, 10:28:06 PM
Also: Plague sucks and I hate it.  Dying to lousy weak enemies because of a status ailment is total balls.

And you call yourself a Fatlus. what a poseur.

Completed the first quest thing in Aegis in Contact, I guess. Reward was a knife that gives me a 20+ to speed. While being weaker then the hammer I have, speed == more attacks == more important than strength to a degree.

Discovered Myst 5 runs bad on the desktop.

Did most of the tree age in Uru. That ages sort of has stupid puzzles.

Right now I'm eating Indonesian food. Indonesian food is really fucking good.
6660  Media / Brush and Quill / Re: Anime Light Novel comes to the US with 3D woman on Cover- Fans:"GRR" on: October 17, 2009, 02:09:15 AM
Hmmm... what about American furry/werewolf porn?

That's always better because it's made of patriotism and eagles.

Remember that 90% of everything is crap.

That's just something they tell you in highschool so you're not too disappointed when you become a balding wage slave without a sex life or anything of meaning to your name.
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