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6661  Media / Single-Player RPGs / Re: RPGs that critics love but fans of the series hate. on: June 07, 2009, 06:35:25 PM
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i honestly think back in the day dragon quest 1 was more enjoyable than DQ8.

Yeah, even during the NES era, Dragon Quest 8 totally sucked.

Honestly, Persona 2: EP is STILL a damn daunting game. It's harder than P1 and P3, and the dungeons, despite being top-down, are still pretty huge and maze-like. Also, there's stuff like rumors you can get from demons, choices between one or two different rumors, huge amounts of customization, and in general you get lots of situations where it's not really clear at all why one persona is better than another.

I remember when Nocturne came out and some long-time fans were complaining about how your alignment didn't affect what demons you could sumoon, or how weapons were removed, or how you couldn't do stuff like Sword Fusion, or how conversations were simplified. In this case, I think Nocturne's... some of its simplifications were good, because they made the whole thing a lot... more coherent/direct/together. SMT1 and Persona 2 both kind of feel like, at times, the developers weren't entirely in control of the project.
6662  Media / Single-Player RPGs / Re: RPGs that critics love but fans of the series hate. on: June 07, 2009, 03:16:53 PM
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So basically you're saying it's impossible for someone to hate a game?

No. I'm saying that opinions are super-malleable, and one's opinions on a game might not really have much to do with the game itself, and unless you analyze not just WHAT your opinions are but WHY they're that way, it's hard to gauge the validity and relevance of your opinions. Additionally, it makes it hard for other people to judge your opinions, and this leads to general communication gaps and feelings of disunity and anxiety.

And that's noooo good.

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One thing I don't hold against the game, but that still annoyed me was the fact that being able to move in combat didn't DO anything.

See, I really DO hold this against the game, because it removes the notion of attack range and like, having attacks that could maybe hit enemies that were close together. It's REALLy silly since attack range DOES matter with guns and bows, kind of, except your AI partners tend to use them at close range anyway.

I don't even have an issue with hands off battle systems, really. Ultima 7's one of my all-time favorites and I liked the hell out of Contact. I think part of the problem I had with FFXII is that Ultima 7's very much about the story and adventuring, Contact's more about exploring and doing sidequests, and... well, FFXII's gameplay is ENTIRELY focused on the battle system. (Also U7 and Contact seemed faster to me, although FFXII's speed settings are definitely variable so who knows what I had them set at. Contact also put some emphasis on isolating enemies and avoiding bottlenecks with its area designs, whereas everywhere in FFXII is pretty wide opened so it's hard to get ganged up on, from what I remember).
6663  Media / Single-Player RPGs / Re: What makes for a good RPG sequel? on: June 07, 2009, 02:51:20 PM
You liked the Blue Dragon boss theme.
6664  Media / Single-Player RPGs / Re: RPGs that critics love but fans of the series hate. on: June 07, 2009, 10:52:45 AM
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Like when someone goes on about how FF7 sucks and they spent too much time on the graphics and none on the story.

It's really easy to call bullshit on this argument because looking back it's pretty apparent that they didn't spend much time on the graphics at all.

Ice burn.

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So by saying they spent 40 hours beating it and still hated it, it's like a "ha! So there!" on teh intarwebnet.

Yeah, but if you beat a game just so you can be "So there!" about it you're going to force yourself to hate it anyway, thus irreleventing your opinion. Thus my original idea that it's mostly psychological.

Reverse of this is probably that you just spent 50 or 60 dollars on a game, need to justify the purchase, and so convince themselves they love it. See: Lair. Alternatively, they're so wrapped up in the hype that they like it before even playing it.

Further counter to this, of course, is that pirating software means that you have no monetary investment in a game and are incredibly unlikely to give it a fair shake.

And most fans don't have a clue about anything anyway.
6665  Media / Single-Player RPGs / Re: Villains MIA topic... on: June 07, 2009, 02:27:30 AM
Thing needs to burn, man.
6666  Media / Single-Player RPGs / Re: Villains MIA topic... on: June 06, 2009, 11:37:25 PM
Is the other SoM Sword of Mana?
6667  Media / Single-Player RPGs / Re: What makes for a good RPG sequel? on: June 06, 2009, 08:42:00 PM
HRM HRM HRM.

That stuff does sound good but I mean, economically, I never finished Persona 3, and it STILL doesn't sound like the two games are different enough.

I think, honestly, my single biggest complaint with Persona 3 was when I realized that I was working on raising my education stat and charm stat and that really, in real life, I should've just been studying or going out and making friends. Except I never did the former because I'm chronically lazy (and I still somehow have a 3.81 GPA, and got in an A in Russian last semester, even though I have less proficiency in Russian now than ever before), and I never did the latter because my university's situated in what is for all intents and purposes a ghost town. Thanks for making me feel utterly disappointed in everything, Atlus.
6668  Media / Single-Player RPGs / Re: RPGs that critics love but fans of the series hate. on: June 06, 2009, 06:28:27 PM
From a mechanics standpoint I think Oblivion is sound, but the quest structure was... very similar from one town to the next and kind of lacking, and you don't really NOTICE this till you've been playing it for awhile.

Of course, Daggerfall fans say Morrowind was dumbed down, too, but I can't think of anything positive to say about Daggerfall's gameplay at all. Removing skills is not dumbing things down if the skills didn't serve any purpose in the original game, kids.
6669  Media / Single-Player RPGs / Re: RPGs that critics love but fans of the series hate. on: June 06, 2009, 05:23:28 PM
I know RPGFan finishes games. I don't think a lot of review sites do (Screw what they claim. They're lying bastards). But sometimes when you're sort of rushing through a game quality drops aren't as noticeable. Or maybe he actually liked it. I don't know. This and many other questions are unanswered.

What I was saying in the other topic still applies for me, personally. I don't judge a game based on its series. In general I don't go into a new game really expecting anything (even if I read reviews. Screw what they claim. They're lying bastards). To an extent I can assume that I'd like another game in a series if I liked other games in a series, but execution can vary a great deal.

I mean, I don't even really have anything I'd call a favorite game, so I can't be like, "Yeah, I'm really champing at the bit for a sequel to this thing."

Also, I can't say there are very many games out their that epitomize what my personal concepts of game design are, so again, no real situation where I'd necessarily want one game to play exactly like another. That and RPGs are long. A 60 hour game is about three games worth of game so it's not like I'd feel the need for a sequel anyway.
6670  The Rest / General Discussions / Re: RPGFan Super Game Journal Turbo II - The New Challengers on: June 06, 2009, 05:14:49 PM
Did the Red Dragon in CC. nmiaow. The boss battles are really fun, especially if you try to game the timing/elemental system so that you can use the summons. Fargo's awesome. I still maintain that this and most JRPGs would be fun without non-boss battles.

Also I tried doing the Dario fight. That was a goddamn trainwreck.
6671  Media / Single-Player RPGs / Re: What makes for a good RPG sequel? on: June 06, 2009, 05:12:42 PM
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they're optional after all and I found that most of them were more trouble than they were worth.

I don't think you get it. I'm OCD.

(In all seriousness I'm not THAT OCD although I do have certain OCDish tendencies, typically relating to my microwave).

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P4 is better in just about every way and the gameplay is a lot more balanced & interesting.

How? I'm interested in this.

Speaking of irritating optional things in Persona games, that damn mapmaker thing in Persona 2. Are there any good rewards for doing that?
6672  Media / Single-Player RPGs / Re: RPGs that critics love but fans of the series hate. on: June 06, 2009, 02:42:52 PM
In regards to FFXII, it STARTS really good and starts to kind of crap out eventually. That might be why you get a lot of good reviews for it.

The other problem is that I can't honestly thing of a JRPG that has handled a political storyline well (and I don't play Suikoden games so maybe those do but whatever), and FFXII certainly did not, in my eyes, have the quality of writing or level of confidence and maturity to actually approach that subject without it becoming really silly. In general politics in RPGs are very exaggerated, generalized, and not at all like real-world politics.

And maybe the biggest flaw WAS that it didn't really focus on its characters because people, after all, ARE politicians and ARE at the center of politics.

You also need strong characters for the player to associate with these concepts. IF you're just shooting off ideas, you don't have a story. You have a manifesto.

This is why nobody reads that one part of 1984 that's just Goldstien's Book. It's abstract, boring, and nothing but Orwell getting on a soapbox and furiously masturbating for 80 pages.

Of course, gameplay was, I didn't think FFXII was that big of a departure. The license board was sort of a modified sphere grid. The battles were still based around ATB. The difference is that they took place on the main map and you could walk away at any time. The Gambit system is just AI scripting and you could turn it off if you wanted. I think that's why it started disappointing me later on. The further I got, I realized that the gameplay WAS pretty much the same as it always had been, just gussied up a bit.

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If a hypothetical Grandia IV was the best Grandia game in terms of characters and play mechanics, BUT was a hard sci-fi game rather than fantasy, who would be first to cry foul that it isn't Grandia?

Grandia feels more sega to me than strictly fantasy, or strictly grandia, even. Sci-fi is within the boundaries of Sega's typical work -- Phantasy Star and Skies of Arcadfia, for instance. And it's not like Grandia 1 didn't have gobs of sci-fi elements anyway.

In general fans bitch about anything. So I mean potentially, you could probably apply this to ANY game, except for cases where the sequel really is better than the original in every way and you can't really come up with a reasonable argument otherwise. Although, reasonable being the operative word there.

Fans bitch about everything!

Anyway, Daggerfall really comes to mind here. Because I hate it. And Morrowind got great reviews, and the Daggerfall fans hated it. And I think the Daggerfall fans are stupid for huge numbers of reasons I could enumerate. In general though they're the kind of people that want to sacrifice fun for realism, though, which is horrible game design.

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RPGamer forums.

>:( Tidwell >:(

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Didn't someone once say that the opposite of love isn't hate.  The opposite of love is apathy.  

My 6th grade science teacher did, once.
6673  Media / Single-Player RPGs / Re: What makes for a good RPG sequel? on: June 06, 2009, 02:27:01 PM
"Hey go find three wizzdangs that are only dropped by RED ENEMIES found between floors 70 AND 80 and you have five days to do it."
6674  The Rest / General Discussions / Re: It's official: the world is fucking insane. on: June 06, 2009, 02:25:35 PM
I think this is relevant:

http://www.musicsonglyrics.com/D/daftpunklyrics/daftpunksuperheroeslyrics.htm
6675  The Rest / General Discussions / Re: EA: Girls, your value is as vapid fashionistas on: June 06, 2009, 02:17:53 PM
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And River Raid is one of the finest and most technically sophisticated on 2600 games too.

Lies!!! ALTERNATE REALITY!! ALTERNATE REALITY! BEST GAME EVER!!!!!!!!1111one

God I hate Alternate Reality.

Reading about how River Raid works on the uh, wikipedia, it DOES sound pretty technically accomplished. So basically all of the attack patterns are procedural?
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