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334486 Posts in 13702 Topics by 2200 Members
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6751  Media / Single-Player RPGs / Re: The youthful protagonists thread on: April 26, 2009, 05:07:25 PM
Just because it's Squaresoft doesn't mean that the end boss is going to have anything to do with the rest of the game.

Just because it's Squaresoft DOES mean that the end boss probably won't have anything to do with the rest of the game, though.

Corollary:

Just because it's Squaresoft and the the end boss does have something to do with the rest of the game doesn't mean that anything about this connection is going to be particularly clear or meaningful.
6752  Media / Single-Player RPGs / Re: My Friends that plays rpgs... annoys me to no end on: April 26, 2009, 05:06:45 PM
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I did.

How, or do I just have a grossly misinflated remembering of how confusing that thing really was?
6753  Media / Single-Player RPGs / Re: The youthful protagonists thread on: April 26, 2009, 01:34:33 PM
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Sorry, but I find the characters on those games to have much better characterization than many of today rpgs.

Well, I was talking about character driven v. plot driven narratives. And I was tired when I wrote that. I wasn't necessarily trying to make a point about characterization* so much as how the characters are used.

* Except for like, FFVIII, because seriously does Quistis even HAVE any story relevance after the first few hours?
6754  Media / Single-Player RPGs / Re: My Friends that plays rpgs... annoys me to no end on: April 26, 2009, 01:25:56 PM
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Who's to say how you should play a game?

Well, you have the Game Police, but I doubt macirex is part of their ranks.

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When I play indie games, it feels "like 1992" as you say.

Oh, damn. I made a post about this in the Dark Spire topic, apparently. Like, back in January.

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it was your responsibility to figure them out and to play them until you could beat them. I mean, look at the original Zelda--talk about a challenge...

Yeah, but you also have the dark woods. Did anyone actually figure that out on their own?

That's sort of the problem with the NES days. You DID get some genuinely hard games. And then you also got some that were really just cheap and unfair.

Also a problem with older adventure games, and with newer adventure games, you sort of were expected to be familiar with the level of arbitrariness that some puzzles just HAD and, as such, they got completely inaccessible to anyone new to the genre.
6755  Media / Single-Player RPGs / Re: The youthful protagonists thread on: April 26, 2009, 12:10:01 AM
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JRPGs tend to focus on characters and dialogue.

That wasn't the case till the 32-bit era, with FFVI and PSIV standing out maybe as the two more character-centric, or at least attempting to be character centric, JRPGs from the 16-bit era. And even during the 32-bit* era, the majority of JRPGs were tending towards plot-centric storylines and not character driven storylines. I mean, in one sense, the entire 32-bit era was practically this plot twist arms race to see who could pull off the craziest plot twist, until it finally culminated into SO3's plot twist, and then nobody ever wanted a plot twist again.

Specifically, from the 32-bit era, I can think of some games that were trending more towards character-driven narratives, but they still had a huge tendency towards being built around huge plot twists** with the characters mostly serving as necessary vehicles for these twists. I'm not saying it was all like that--Lunar, FFIX, and the Personas were sort of character-driven things. But then you get things like FFVIII, which didn't really develop any of the side characters at all***, or Xenogears, which tries to do character-driven but ends up not doing a very good job of it and sort of forces it to take a backseat to the invented mythology of the world or, like FFVII, uses the characters as means for plot twists.

* I think today would be the Quad-Core 128-bit era or something. INNOCENT TIMES, my friends.

** At least in one sense, Aeris was a completely irrelevant character because her entire purpose seemed to be that plot twist. I think the game was lampshading this. Maybe it wasn't. I don't know.

*** The problem with the orphanage scene was not that it was deus ex machina. The problem was that it reduced everyone other than Squall and Rinoa into an anonymous glob.
6756  Media / Single-Player RPGs / Re: My Friends that plays rpgs... annoys me to no end on: April 25, 2009, 11:44:30 PM
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Or really any Western RPG, as they tend to be conversation light and have handy quest logs.

Unless, of course, you're playing something like Torment, which is, uh, nothing but an endless wall of text. Or Ultima 5-7, which are conversation-heavy and lack quests log. Or Betrayal at Krondor, which is conversation-heavy and lacks a quest log. Or Albion, which is conversation-heavy and lacks a quest log. Or Summoner 2, which is conversation-heavy and... may or may not have a quest log. Or Star Control 2, which is conversation-heavy and lacks a quest log. Or the Quest for Glory games, which are conversation-heavy and lack quest logs. Or Wizardry 8, which is fairly conversation heavy to the point where you can assign personalities and talkie bits to your random characters, and to the extent that the NON-random characters you pick up are fairly well developed, and the journal, while present, isn't great.

I could list several other games, but I'm not going to because I'm honestly just confused by Sacred coming up, even though that wasn't hugely well received or popular in any capacity.

Also, seriously now. OP dude. It's not cool to make fun of your friends behind their backs online 'cause they enjoy games in a different way than you do. Making fun of other people online that you don't know in person is one thing and totally acceptable, but heaping derision* on your IRL buddies because they're not as into gaming or whatever isn't very nice.

* I need to not listen to The Wall.
6757  The Rest / General Discussions / Re: RPGFan Super Game Journal Turbo II - The New Challengers on: April 25, 2009, 11:30:36 PM
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-Should I bother having Jessica use anything but staves?  Everytime I level up with her I put all skill points into Staves.

Yes. Whips attack multiple enemies at once, daggers do something... and you get more skills, anyway.

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-MC - Any advantages to using spears?

Fast skills, and sometimes the currently available spear is the best thing you have.

You can freely change weapons in combat. Take advantage of it.

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-How many times should I raise my tension to get the most out of my turns?  I keep thinking in terms of WoW where mages use Arcane Blast twice before they use barrage or missiles.

A lot. I never found it useful, really.

Anyway I played FFIX. I did some chocograph thing. I also played LoM for a bit, discovered that hard mode is still getting me killed, I need to do that Watts Drops the Hammer quest, uh... >8/ and I want to write some hacks or hex edits or whatever to disable monster respawning unless you leave a dungeon entirely. Yes.
6758  The Rest / General Discussions / Re: RPGFan Super Game Journal Turbo II - The New Challengers on: April 25, 2009, 07:00:53 PM
I also prefer skill-based systems, where you allocate skill points. You still don't STRICTLY need a traditional EXP/Level-up from enemies system for that. Look at Deus Ex, for example. You got XP for completing quests and exploring, not for killing things. And then uh... you either spent XP on skills/nanomachines, or levelled up from exploration XP. I can't remember which exactly.

Basically, I mean, give out skill points for completing quests or bosses and let the player allocate them, but not from regular battles. Or you can do a hybrid system ala later wizardry games, where you can spend skill points at level up to bring up lagging skills, or improve them through use.

There's lots of ways you could do it, really.
6759  The Rest / General Discussions / Re: RPGFan Super Game Journal Turbo II - The New Challengers on: April 25, 2009, 05:28:23 PM
Yeah, but in that case, it's either the dev's fault for making the encounter too difficult/unbalanced, or the player's fault for not being good at the game.
6760  Media / Single-Player RPGs / Re: 1up: Essential RPGs on: April 25, 2009, 05:22:52 PM
That's a nose. Not a penis.

Also the latter pokemon games get some xenogears mindfuck going on or something, with like, god being a pokemon.
6761  Media / Single-Player RPGs / Re: The Dark Spire - Any impressions yet? on: April 25, 2009, 05:21:25 PM
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In the Wizardry 1 pc port I think you could even lose stats and hps on a level up...not sure if that was a bug or not though.

No, that was intentional, and based around what stats you used the least. It might not have been IN the Mac version, but it was definitely intentional.
6762  Media / Single-Player RPGs / Re: Secret Party Members in RPGs on: April 25, 2009, 05:20:18 PM
Leon also has a decent attack, too. It's not a TON of damage but it's decent, and it's got like, rather good range.
6763  The Rest / General Discussions / Re: RPGFan Super Game Journal Turbo II - The New Challengers on: April 25, 2009, 01:57:36 PM
That's an excellent question, which also applies to RPGs in general. What's the point of experience levels, except to make the player grind? If there's no grinding at all, what's the point of experience levels? In REALLY well balanced RPGs, you just tend to gain levels naturally, and experience level is somewhat decoupled from skill advancement today, too.
6764  The Rest / General Discussions / Re: RPGFan Super Game Journal Turbo II - The New Challengers on: April 25, 2009, 11:14:38 AM
Get rid of experience points, replace with new levels gained from completing side-quests/certain events/boss battles. Tombs & Treasures meets CC. No more grinding.
6765  Media / Single-Player RPGs / Re: Secret Party Members in RPGs on: April 25, 2009, 11:12:01 AM
I don't believe Ernest locks you out of Celine. You need Opera to get Ernest, so no Ashton, but getting Ernest just locks you out of either Leon/Dias, Chisato, or Noel, IIRC, and it's NOT LIKE THAT'S A HARD CHOICE.
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