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Next Quiz Date: January 11, 2014
Subject: 999 (Nintendo DS)
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6916  Media / Single-Player RPGs / Re: Lets discuss the forgotten SNES Era of RPGs on: December 19, 2008, 10:06:04 AM
PSI gets a lot less grindy after awhile. PS2 gets progressively more grindy as it goes on.
6917  The Rest / General Discussions / Re: Goths leech the joy out of fucking everything. on: December 19, 2008, 10:05:57 AM
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Let the animals be as mother nature intended them.

Food?
6918  Media / Single-Player RPGs / Re: What Final Fantasy DS game is best and why? on: December 19, 2008, 10:01:04 AM
I thought FFXII's plot started getting really incoherent when every other word was "deifacted nethicyte" and it veered off into BS political intrique.

I think the phrase "highschool creative writing class" sums up my opinions on FFXII's story very well.

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It was one of the first RPGs to seriously attempt for a narrative and none had done as much as it had prior

One of the first console RPGs to seriously attempt a narrative, as there'd been a couple of PC games prior to it that had been very narrative-focused, Ultima 6 probably being the most noteworthy, although saying FFIV was the first JRPG to seriously attempt a narrative still doesn't really sit right with me, because I'm not really willing to say it was THAT much more narrative-driven than something lik Dragon Quest 4, Seiken Densetsu 1 was very narrative-oriented and came out a month before, FFL2 was pretty narrative oriented and came out about half a year earlier, I believe? And even then, that's excluding things like Crystalis and a good portion of the Ys series. The Phantasy Star games also seriously attempted having a strong narrative structure, although it's very debatable if 2 and 3 actually succeeded at that.

And even then I don't know if I'd say FFIV was successful at it because its story wasn't THAT great and more importantly, its focus on narrative precluded any sort of exploration, sidequestry, or decision making on the part of the player.

Fans of FFIV responded to it very well. Fans of FFVII also frequently wrote Sephiroth/Cloud slash. I'm not sure what parallel I'm trying to draw here.

---edit---

lol i don't know how to use tags on the internet also I can't remember how to spell anymore!!!!!
6919  Media / Single-Player RPGs / Re: Baroque, from someone that likes roguelikes? on: December 19, 2008, 09:57:51 AM
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Grinding is pretty much moot since each time you leave, it resets your level

Right, but in the Angband model of roguelikes, grinding is still fairly important for survival and somewhat less so in the more Hacksian models.
6920  Media / Single-Player RPGs / Re: Suikoden DS on: December 19, 2008, 12:48:30 AM
Why did people bash on Suik 3 so much? I thought it was pretty neat though admittedly it took forever to get started (we're not talking star ocean 3 slow intros at least but still).

Also it sounds like all of the suikoden games get less linear/branchier as you get further into them. Is that true? I only have 1 and 3 but I'm kind of curious and thinking about going back to them.

(Also, I will say that I like that you just upgrade your weapons, honestly. Overall weapon progression in most RPGs is too linear so it doesn't try to disguise that, at least). 
6921  Media / Single-Player RPGs / Baroque, from someone that likes roguelikes? on: December 19, 2008, 12:01:41 AM
Okay, I know this got panned by most of the gaming press, but it is a roguelike, and that's a niche genre.

Now, I do like roguelikes, but I generally haven't been that fond of console roguelikes, mainly for reasons like they're slow as heck and have really bad random dungeon generators. The Mysterious Dungeon games drive me nuts, mostly because they ARE a lot slower than PC roguelikes and as such playing stuff over again gets really old really fast. That and they don't have the same level of interaction something like Nethack or ADOM is famous for. By comparison, one of the things I liked about Dragon Quarter is that it DID seem to be a lot faster, although I'm still not sure it was that interactive.

Baroque kind of caught my eye from the aesthetics, supposedly having a good story, its origins as a Saturn game (? no idea why?) and Atlus tends to publish stuff I like.

So, main points of concern here.

* How well DOES that random dungeon generator work? Are the layouts interesting or does it tend towards "Long empty hallway connecting large empty room" syndrome?

* Is it more strategic and item based or more grindy and weapon/fighting based (Nethack v. Angband, I guess).

* Review here talked about items being used in tandem to open up some strategic opportunities. Could anyone give me some examples as to what this refers to?

* Tasks get mentioned. That's one of the things that bugs me a LOT about ADOM is that you have to repeat the same quests over and over again when you die, whereas quest-based branches of Angband randomize them a bit, and Nethack's quests were more like... things in the linear progression of the dungeon. What are they like in Baroque?
6922  Media / Single-Player RPGs / Re: Lets discuss the forgotten SNES Era of RPGs on: December 18, 2008, 11:13:30 PM
Okay, I'll also add that most modern games that try to mimic oldschool styled games get it wrong. Same with Myst clones. It's basically a matter of missing the damn point.

That being said, Dark Spire looks gooood though I have no idea why you'd pick classic mode over the pretty, comic-shaded modern mode. Also Atlus generally knows what they're doing.

I will say that I did find EO to have a lot of unrewarding grind, though I'll also say that apparently I'm supposed to AVOID FOEs and I never actually figured out how to do that because there's no "wait" but that let's me get into a position where I can run from them and NOT get raped.

I'll also say that in a lot of oldschool games that grind was more rewarding, usually. In the good ones, at least. And it wasn't a matter of "walk around in circles till you get money and EXPz" like in phantasy star 2, but something that happened naturally AS you explored the dungeons/world.
6923  Media / Single-Player RPGs / Re: Lets discuss the forgotten SNES Era of RPGs on: December 18, 2008, 08:22:45 PM
Keep in mind I don't have a problem with nostalgia or anything when I said that. I just find circle-jerk-ish articles *like* that to be incredibly boring. They go on forever without saying anything. There's not really anything new you can say about most of those games that hasn't already been said unless you ARE trying to be willfully contrarian (and if that's the case it's also kind of predictable, what ends up being said).

---edit---

Actually, you COULD talk about the mechanics of the game in a very detailed sort of way but nobody does that much with modern games either. We need game scientists or something. Game mathemeticians. Something. Anything.

---edit2---

Here, even better way of putting it.

FFXII is pretty mainstream. Most people here have probably played it.

Most people here, I'm also assuming this so correct me if I'm wrong, started playing RPGs when they somewhere between 8-12.

Now, while I don't doubt that there ARE 8-12 year olds playing FFXII, they're still a fairly small subset of the total number of people that have played it.

In other words, in ten years, younger kids that've played FFXII recently will look back, wax nostalgic about it, and think it wasn't very mainstream because all of their friends were playing Halo.

... That sounded a lot more concise in my head. Oh well.
6924  Media / Single-Player RPGs / Re: RPG's you'd like to see re-released on: December 18, 2008, 08:15:03 PM
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JP, I believe the Phantasy Star games were remade with cel shaded graphics and all for the Playstation 2, but it's Japan only.  Surprise surprise.

2D, Sprite-based remakes that are supposedly very shovelware.

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Innocent Sin in English (using the Oracle of Maiya translation)

I'd like to say more about this but I doubt I'm allowed to for various reasons.

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Persona 1 without a hackjob translation

I take the old translation if they offered some remixed dungeons :[

Anyway, how about a Quest for Glory 3 remake? That one seemed to need it the most.

Speaking of Planescape though, honeslty, I have no idea why someone hasn't put it up on Steam or something like that yet. Doesn't bioware have the rights to it? Online distribution would be like http://www.lesko.com/lesko_cart/images/standing.gif

6925  The Rest / General Discussions / Re: RPGFan Game Journal MXVII: Crisis Atelier Spectral Moon III on: December 18, 2008, 07:55:04 PM
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I'm now 21 hours in and have achieved level 50.

DQ7's the opposite for me. I'm at about 57 hours in and everyone's around or at level 19.

---edit---

I played Tombs and Treasure. I'm... got the pipes. It'd be easier to figure out what I was supposed to do with them if the game had an "Examine item" command.
6926  The Rest / General Discussions / Re: Goths leech the joy out of fucking everything. on: December 18, 2008, 07:52:31 PM
A cat is fine too.
6927  Media / Single-Player RPGs / Re: Lets discuss the forgotten SNES Era of RPGs on: December 18, 2008, 05:38:16 PM
I was going to say that 90% of the editorials about how so-and-so time period was the golden-age of such-and-such medium are just massive, bleary-eyed, nostalgic circle jerks, but in reality it's more like 100%.
6928  Media / Single-Player RPGs / Re: Suikoden DS on: December 18, 2008, 05:31:06 PM
The only good thing I've ever heard about Suik 2's battle system is that it's fast and you can mostly ignore it. How is ignorable gameplay GOOD gameplay :(
6929  Media / Single-Player RPGs / Re: RPG's you'd like to see re-released on: December 18, 2008, 05:27:22 PM
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If every boss had a certain level, instead on them levelling up when you do, the game would then be a bit harder I suppose.

Bosses gain stats faster from leveling than you do, so the leveling actually makes the game harder in theory. In practice, you can still blow through most of them by spamming summons.

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3 bucks for Torment?  If you look at any online resource that sells used games, Torment sells for at least 13 times that.

WTF? I don't even remember the game being that rare.
6930  Media / Single-Player RPGs / Re: Lets discuss the forgotten SNES Era of RPGs on: December 17, 2008, 10:25:55 PM
Also I like how some of the menus in Robotrek have tooltips and some don't.

If there's one innovation in modern RPGs I love, it's the auto-journal feature.

Reasons:

I'm sort of lost in Shin Megami Tensei 1.

My Ultima 7 notes files is 2000 words long.

My ultima 4 notes file is shorter but still like 900 some words.

(Tool tips, on the other hand, are the reason for why, in their absence, I have a WHOLE lot of trouble with DOS-era strategy games. Part of this is probably why I don't have much trouble with Dwarf Fortress or something).

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I'm surprised that no one has mentioned Breath of Fire II yet.

I would've, except I played it during the GBA rerelease era, and when attempting to get back into it I realized how utterly broken and not-good the gameplay is :/

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Gaming Developers didn't grind out action games

Ahem.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doom_clone

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Giana_Sisters

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Home_Alone_(video_game)
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