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Next Quiz Date: January 11, 2014
Subject: 999 (Nintendo DS)
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330050 Posts in 13525 Topics by 2179 Members
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7231  Media / Miscellaneous Games / Re: Disaster: Day of Crisis on: September 10, 2008, 10:22:52 PM
Oh sweet another Disaster Report game! I LOVE that series!
7232  The Rest / General Discussions / Re: Kim Jong Il dead since 2003 on: September 08, 2008, 03:52:47 AM
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They don't have any reason to hide Kim Jong Il being dead

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Do you EVER hear about the rest of the DPRK government taking heat for the state of the country? Nope. Kim gets all the flak.

Doink.
7233  Media / Single-Player RPGs / Re: What RPG world would you like to live in? on: September 07, 2008, 08:58:13 PM
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For all the shit that game gets, there's no denying it took place in a pretty original and inviting world.

The most inviting part was the part where everyone died every couple of years from giant zombie whale attacks.

Anyway I think I'd like to live in Fa'diel to sate my raging lust for anthropomorphic tea pots. It's pretty hard to deny that Teapo was incredibly curvacious and busty. Or maybe that was a spout.

On a more serious note, something like Persona 3, which takes place in a large city. I've always lived in suburbia. I hate suburbs. So damn much.

Although if I had to pick something less real-world, Shapeir is pretty inviting...

---edit---

Oh, yeah. Harvest Moon. forgot about that. I love agriculture and plants and cows and stuff and I also like buildings made of wood. But yeah, like, either the original Harvest Moon, the PSX/N64 one (and not the bastardized versions in like, the GBA games or other HM games set there. Original all the way), or the one from the GC harvest moon with the turtle and the archaeological dig site and the old people that would die off as the game went on (fuck old people. They aren't curvacious or teapots).
7234  Media / Single-Player RPGs / Re: Stupid RPG conventions/cliches you can't get past. on: September 07, 2008, 08:54:25 PM
Persona 3, despite its dating sim aspects* and animeishness, is pretty firmly grounded in WRPG tradition, and most of the unique elements belonging to it are idiosyncratic to the SMT series, and can't easily be called elements of western or japanese design schools. Which is why I think it did so well. It's not a good JRPG or a good WRPG or even a good RPG. It's an an incredibly well designed game by any metric, and genre and country of origin are sort of moot points.

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I've always thought of the SaGa games as being somewhat along those lines. Which is one of many reasons why I love them so much.

Sort of. Again though, these games are sort of idiosyncratic. Using SaGa Frontier as an example, Ultima 5 and 6 are the only WRPGs that come to mind where you can build a party of a large number of pre-made characters. Most WRPGs have pretty small parties and either let you create everyone yourself or limit it to a fairly small number (I think Baldur's Gate 2 might be on the upper end here, if I remember correctly. I never played that much. Albion has something like 8 characters total that join your party.

As for the non-linearity, that's something that's typically part of WRPGs, yes, but I'm also not of the opinion that JRPGs are as linear as people tend to claim they are or, if I can qualify that, modern JRPGs aren't. Non-linearity is pretty weird, though. Ultima 7's actually a fairly linear game, for instance. It just has a good number of sidequests and hidden things and there's nothing preventing you from just going off and screwing around with stuff on your own. SaGa Frontier's exactly the same way. Fairly linear main storylines, with a few sidequests, and you can explore all of the worlds as you feel.

Genuinely non-linear RPGs are actually pretty rare in WRPGs. The second main paradigm is that you have x number of goals that need to be completed and can be done in any order (and you can explore around as much as you feel like with few restrictions). A LOT of JRPGs do this today, it seems, refining what FF6 did in its second half. Genuinely non-linear WRPGs are mostly limitted to the likes of the Might & Magic and Elder Scrolls series, and then a few oddball non-series games like Darklands or stuff like Megatraveller and Realms of Arkania (which I dont like because they have skills that are useless in context of the PC games and are only there so you can transfer your dudes from the PnP games over and back again).

And as for SGF's usage-based skill system, I'm not really sure where that originated. Wizardry games, when they started using skills (Wizardry 6, 1990ish?) had a usage based skill system in place, but you also gained exp and levels and could invest additional points into lagging skills. Quest for Glory is entirely usage based (but it also tracks exp and I have no idea what this does). On the other hand, Ultima is levelled based (and each game, IIRC, handles stat gain a bit differently. In 6 and 7 you gain stats by praying at shrines after levelling up. In the earlier games, where you had more that three stats, I think it was differently. Although I guess it goes to show that, while complex stat systems are often associated with WRPGs, this isn't exactly true, and I'm of the school of thought that "More skills and stats doesn't inherently mean better." Ideally, if you HAVE more skills in a game, these should translate to more actions a player can do (Armor making skill, trapping skill, music playing skill, etc.) instead of a bunch of passive skills (Medium armor, long blades, poison resistance, etc.) and when you have a bunch of skills that don't really translate into anything but obtuse number crunchery, it gets a bit silly. But I digress). Dragon Wars had a usage-based system, the Bard's Tale games did not from what I remember, and I'm not entirely sure what Wasteland had off-hand. Fallout games were investing points at level up, though, with your base stats never changing, and Albion had you paying a trainer to up stats.

And then SaGa Frontier 2 and Romancing SaGa 2 are fairly oddball, since I can't really think of any other games that have a gameplay progression like these (and RSG2 and SGF2 aren't even that similar in this regard). And the earlier SaGa games are much closer to JRPGs as a whole. So yeah. Idiosyncratic, I guess.

Which game or series would you guys say best exemplifies the JRPG, or your concept of the JRPG, rather?

* Truthfully, however, it's not so much a dating sim as it is a life sim, since you also need to balance your studying, social interaction, and general wellfare. These elements aren't unknown in western RPGs and despite being not-overly-common nowadays, if you look back at something like Ultima 7, which had detailed NPC schedules and a requirement for the player to eat, you can see where some of these things come from. More clearly, though, and since I've been playing it a lot recently, Quest for Glory 2's scheduling system is *quite* similar to Persona 3's. Where Persona 3 primarily differes, here, is the way that it monitors your relationship to various NPCs, which is quite novel. Morrowind and Oblivion, for instance, had favorability bars for every NPC in the game, although it's hard to say that either of the games used these in an interesting way (although Morrowind has some interesting friendship/relationship mods that do a lot more with this). Likewise, even though Quest for Glory 2 monitors, to an extent, whether or not other characters are happy with your actions or annoyed at you, this doesn't have much of a lasting effect, and the only characters this really matters much for would be... Aziza and Rakeesh, if you're trying to get the Paladin Class opened. However, as I said, these mostly result to responding to your actions in game or in-dialogue and don't try to simulate a long term relationship. It's also worth noting that quite a few WRPGs have tried to do what Persona 3 did with relations and failed at doing it in a decent manner, and I think it's fair to say that the Gothic and Guild games are the closest that came to Persona 3's success (However, I must admit that I don't know how well Gothic did it and I'm going from second hand knowledge here, and while The Guild does a very nice job at it, and definitely is an RPG in a very large capacity, it's predominately a strategy game/economic sim -- I have to say, though, that if it had been coupled with a dungeon crawl element, I would've been GREATLY pleased).
7235  The Rest / General Discussions / Re: RPGFan Game Journal MXVII: Crisis Atelier Spectral Moon III on: September 07, 2008, 08:17:36 PM
Beat wind elemental in QfG2. Was on the right path to solving the puzzle but just not exactly making the connection. Well, I was actually trying to do the grindy "level up throw skill and lob dirt" path before I realized there was a better way. Anyway. I love this game.

As for young characters in game, I like how the only young-acting child character in the entire Chrono series was like, freaking Marcy. You could MAYBE make a case for Marle early on but that's just sheltered.

I don't mind if you have freaking nine year old acting youngish but when you get 15 year olds acting like little kids, what the hell? Most of these games are set in medieval times anyway. Most people back in those days had killed a man and probably had a couple kids by that point. Also the man they killed might have been their children. It was pretty crazy back then.
7236  Media / Miscellaneous Games / Dissidia: Final Fantasy - fighting game? on: September 04, 2008, 09:11:00 PM
If Dissidia sucks square'll have to make an AWESOME shmup afterwords with a similar sounding name so that in five years whenever someone brings up the shmup everyone else'll think of the fighting game and get confused.
7237  The Rest / General Discussions / RPGFan Gaming Journal: The Road to Infinity on: September 04, 2008, 11:28:24 AM
Persona 2 does, by far, have my favorite dialogue system in the entire Megaten over-series. In-depth like the first couple of games, but without the "choices have completely arbitrary consequences and good luck figuring out what the hell you just did."

Uselessness of weapons did kind of bug me a lot though. It's like how your human forms were useless in the DDS games. It sort of diminished the whole "Transform into demons!" thing to something more like "You're the demons and not being a demon is more like a bizarre status ailment." Also, I never was that fond of the "eat demons to gain AP" thing or the skill system as a whole I guess.
7238  The Rest / General Discussions / RPGFan Gaming Journal: The Road to Infinity on: September 04, 2008, 02:19:41 AM
I played a bit of Persona 2 recently and I agree that it seems more than a little grindy. The persona summoning/making system doesn't really appeal to me there. I mean, grindy in the sense that you need to get a crapload of cards to make personas. Grinding to level up to beat encounters isn't useful in any way, shape or form. Unless you're grinding to get a high enough level to summon a certain persona or something.

I like Persona 3 a whole lot more all around.

Anyway, played QfG2 for a little bit. STARTING to get the hang of Agi's rope walking thing. More importantly, I beat my first real combat. Just jackalmen, which pose very little threat unless there's a bunch, and I was only facing two. Just combo'd slash and stab attacks without letting them get hits in. It was great. Most fun I've had with an RPG in *years*.
7239  The Rest / General Discussions / RPGFan Gaming Journal: The Road to Infinity on: September 03, 2008, 02:24:26 AM
As much as I love Persona 3 I don't play it much. Anyway, I just got Fuuka. I'm at about 25 hours. Is this on par or am I going as slow as I think I am?

Also, beat King's Quest 1 VGA.
7240  The Rest / General Discussions / RPGFan Gaming Journal: The Road to Infinity on: September 02, 2008, 05:41:22 PM
Finally beat Uhura in QfG2: VGA. Not that she's HARD or anything. Just... lots of patience and timing, and levelling my stamina up. Anyway though beating her, weapon use and strength stats shot way the hell up. Also did the second thieves' guild mission which was easy as hell compared to the first. This is probably one of the most well-designed games I've ever played in pretty much any regard.
7241  The Rest / General Discussions / RPGFan Gaming Journal: The Road to Infinity on: September 01, 2008, 12:17:08 AM
Tried playing King's Quest 1. I think I hate this series. Except 6. I rather like 6.

Also played Persona 2 for awhile though I didn't do much. Just seemed like a very labor day sort of thing to do.

---edit---

Then again apparently someone else worked on 6, so they most certainly temepred Roberta's Robertaishness.

---edit-----

Played FFVII a bit as that's also a very labor day sort of thing to do. Located Chocobo Sage. No idea what to do with that. Currently in Corel, doing something. Wanna start doing some sidequests in a bit. At 25 hours, I'm well past halfway over, so hopefully sidequests pad it out a bit.

Then again, I've gone through the midgar section like... 4 times, and I've never been able to get that to last long than 5 hours. Some people apparently take 20 hours to finish it. Am I missing something?

Also, can't remember if I found this charming back in the day, but I really love the gingerbread-house-looking houses that are used in comparison to the hi-tech stuff. It really is a pretty unique style.
7242  Media / Single-Player RPGs / Stupid RPG conventions/cliches you can't get past. on: August 31, 2008, 05:40:51 PM
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That's the problem with nearly all of Kawazu's games.


Kawazu didn't really have anything to do with the design elements of LoM from what I remember. He was the producer although whether or not this amounted to anything more than certain SaGa Frontier enemies showing up is anyone's guess.

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I mean I liked it when I was like a teenager, but now that im in my early twenties, its like...ok Id like to play someone who can down a beer without being yelled at by his mom for underage drinking...or something. I dunno.


Because, IIRC, in Japan, teenagers are still the main target audience for games.
7243  The Rest / General Discussions / Square Enix trying to take over Tecmo on: August 31, 2008, 05:34:40 PM
I hope Square isn't the new EA :(
7244  The Rest / General Discussions / RPGFan Gaming Journal: The Road to Infinity on: August 31, 2008, 05:20:03 PM
I tried to play King's Quest V and stopped pretty shortly after I read about the rat puzzle that if you fail makes the game unwinnable. Basically in this puzzle, you apparently have a two-second time frame to stop a rat from being eaten by a cat, and it involves using a really, really difficult to find item (a boot from the ENDLESS DESERT) and there aren't any clues that the boot is the right item to use, or that, apparently, the scene even matters (as lots of Sierra games have cutesy one-off scenes that don't really matter). Anyway, it's not so much unwinnable puzzles that bug me, but ones that are based around inaction when you don't know you're supposed to act. That's just unfair. I mean, people tend to cite Return to Zork's empathy plant, where if you pull it up or cut it out, you're sort of screwed (you can actually get more, though), but if you dig it up, it lives and you're fine, but in this case, it's a LITTLE more obvious that you did it wrong, because you don't get a point, and also the level of interaction in Zork games compared to late-era King's Quest games is pretty big by comparison.

What REALLY made me say hell no, though, was that fucking owl. "Hooo, Graham! It's a POOOoioOIOIioisonous snake!"
7245  The Rest / General Discussions / Kevin Pereira defends Too Human on: August 30, 2008, 04:06:15 PM
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I didn't realize he was so stupid.


WTF it's Tech TV.
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