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7261  Media / Single-Player RPGs / Re: Why do I not understand all the fuss about Chrono Trigger DS? on: April 27, 2009, 05:28:01 PM
Except it's still not really all that hard even if you ignore weaknesses, because it's Chrono Trigger and it's very easy.

Also, really, CT's battle system is ATB with combos. It hasn't really aged any better or worse than any post-FFIV ATB battle system because they're all very, very similar. Combos DO make waiting around a bit meaningful, but the easiness of the game still kind of offsets that.
7262  The Rest / General Discussions / Re: RPGFan Super Game Journal Turbo II - The New Challengers on: April 27, 2009, 04:23:58 PM
If you think Nightmare is bad try No Future Mode. X(

I've played No Future. I'm doing this from level 1, mind. I'm not THAT masochistic.

Of course, they both have level 99 tropicallo. Which I beat. Once. And that was enough.


Did the Yorkland stuff. Had to ditch Riki's powerfulish GroundHit because it was making him very unstable. Still scumming for skills. Bad me.

Gen Eric Gui is there a chart of what stats mystics get from which monsters or something.
7263  Media / Single-Player RPGs / Re: Why do I not understand all the fuss about Chrono Trigger DS? on: April 27, 2009, 04:16:04 PM
Most combos were utterly useless

shut up I'm being conciliatory

(Also, there's some truth to what I said, assuming you exploit enemy elemental weaknesses, at which point combos are a very good idea and do to an extent save on MP. however, discerning elemental weakness isn't easy, because Chrono Trigger isn't a Megaten game, and the only explicity information you get in-game is that dinosaurs hate electricity).

(Also, compared to everything else out around the same time with a combo system -- which maybe was early RS games and uh PSIV -- CT probably did it the best.)

(I keep forgetting that I asked this, but how useful are combos in the P2 games and P3? Actually, P3 wasn't combos so much as combination of certain personae being possessed opening up new skills. Whatever.)
7264  Media / Single-Player RPGs / Re: The youthful protagonists thread on: April 27, 2009, 04:04:41 PM
SO2's characters probably wou, with the exception of Precis, ld have been less annoying if the translation had been better. Honestly though I don't know if I'd recommend playing the game for the story. It also kind of stops making sense towards the end unless you're Luke Drelick. I like the game myself, but just because I dig the skill system and battles and fairish amount of non-linyurarity.

Though, I think a game that addressed childhood in an appropriate manner could be pretty cool. It'd probably end up like a Mother game or something.
7265  Media / Single-Player RPGs / Re: Why do I not understand all the fuss about Chrono Trigger DS? on: April 26, 2009, 10:47:29 PM

One of the things, I think, that could be seen as a problem with Chrono Trigger is that while it does do what it does very well, it really doesn't do a lot. The particular innovation this game had was the combo system, which was quite well done, but it didn't really bring a lot *new* to the table.

There are a few other things I see pointed out as innovative, sometimes. I remember a 1up podcast where they said Crono never HAD to be in your active party, which is completely untrue. That's only for the very end of the game when you hit the sidequests. Second, some enemies had weapons you could burn away. By some enemies, I mean like... hardly any, and doing this was inconsequential.

There's also the matter of the battle system taking place on the map. I always considered this an entirely aesthetic thing, because it IS. And I have to admit that when I was 11 and first playing CT, I thought this was the coolest thing in the world. And now I don't.

And then there's the matter of time travel. Maybe the biggest missed opportunity is that it doesn't play into the gameplay that much. It's relevant to a few of the sidequests, and the thing with those locked chests. But otherwise it's part of the story and strictly part of the story. Stuff you do in the past never really changes stuff in the present from a gameplay standpoint, unless the story demands it.

I'm also not sure I'd call CT really influential. Combos didn't suddenly become hugely commonplace after it came out (and, uh, they never really became commonplace anyway). None of the somewhat unique features from the game did, really. I think FFXII is the first non-strategy, non-action JRPG SINCE CT to do battles on the game map.

Anyway, the point I was trying to make is that, while it's a very well done game, it doesn't do a lot of stuff that's really unique. It's a pretty simple game, and if you're more used to recent games that give you more choice about how you develop your party or something, it's not going to offer as much.

7266  The Rest / General Discussions / Re: RPGFan Super Game Journal Turbo II - The New Challengers on: April 26, 2009, 07:57:59 PM
Boomerangs hit all enemies.
7267  The Rest / General Discussions / Re: In this thread, a guy bites his own dick off! on: April 26, 2009, 07:56:39 PM
One time Tricky Dick Nixon had a dick and his dick had a dick too and his dick bit off his dick's dick and then Dick bit of his dick and Dick's dick's dick.
7268  The Rest / General Discussions / Re: Best Buy on: April 26, 2009, 05:23:57 PM
But didn't everybody hate Operation Darkness*?

* Darkness, shmarkness. Go to Barkness.
7269  The Rest / General Discussions / Re: RPGFan Super Game Journal Turbo II - The New Challengers on: April 26, 2009, 05:21:04 PM
Leires and the Jungle are like the uh, longest dungeons in the game. And most confusing. Leires warps you or something and it has those outside staircase fuckeries FUCK, Jungle has the flowerling gates.

Also, the thing with enemies respawning. Game I'm playing now is in Nightmare Mode, from level 1. Unlike in normal mode, *things can kill you*. Also unlike in normal mode, *things have a lot of health*. Like, for an example, AT level 1, rabbites in Mekiv Caverns kill you in about two hits, and generally do that unless you're being incredibly cheap and using the spear, which is boring*. Now, ONCE you get to level 21, rabbits aren't an issue, but like... I'm doing the beach, now. And things there kill you in about four or five hits -- maybe six -- and generally aren't bad at getting said hits in because they either combo or shoot electricity or whatever. So a lot of time is spent with me just kind of ducking around, trying not to get hit/trying to get my health back up a bit while Bud wails on things with magic.

Fights take a *very long time* because of this.

* Explanation: At level 1, your only real way I found to do things is to isolate enemies with uh, plunge attacks that sort of fling them, and then combo them into a coma, and then combo them some more. I'm using nunchucks because they have an inherent stun affect, and they get four quick attacks, so you can get something like 6 or 7 long attack combos. Knives might get more. Bows aren't very good for comboing apparently, and if you need range, which is more important on Nightmare, then uh, Magic, despite being a lot weaker and a little fiddlier, grants temporary immunity.
7270  Media / Single-Player RPGs / Re: The youthful protagonists thread on: April 26, 2009, 05:07:25 PM
Just because it's Squaresoft doesn't mean that the end boss is going to have anything to do with the rest of the game.

Just because it's Squaresoft DOES mean that the end boss probably won't have anything to do with the rest of the game, though.


Just because it's Squaresoft and the the end boss does have something to do with the rest of the game doesn't mean that anything about this connection is going to be particularly clear or meaningful.
7271  Media / Single-Player RPGs / Re: My Friends that plays rpgs... annoys me to no end on: April 26, 2009, 05:06:45 PM
I did.

How, or do I just have a grossly misinflated remembering of how confusing that thing really was?
7272  Media / Single-Player RPGs / Re: The youthful protagonists thread on: April 26, 2009, 01:34:33 PM
Sorry, but I find the characters on those games to have much better characterization than many of today rpgs.

Well, I was talking about character driven v. plot driven narratives. And I was tired when I wrote that. I wasn't necessarily trying to make a point about characterization* so much as how the characters are used.

* Except for like, FFVIII, because seriously does Quistis even HAVE any story relevance after the first few hours?
7273  Media / Single-Player RPGs / Re: My Friends that plays rpgs... annoys me to no end on: April 26, 2009, 01:25:56 PM
Who's to say how you should play a game?

Well, you have the Game Police, but I doubt macirex is part of their ranks.

When I play indie games, it feels "like 1992" as you say.

Oh, damn. I made a post about this in the Dark Spire topic, apparently. Like, back in January.

it was your responsibility to figure them out and to play them until you could beat them. I mean, look at the original Zelda--talk about a challenge...

Yeah, but you also have the dark woods. Did anyone actually figure that out on their own?

That's sort of the problem with the NES days. You DID get some genuinely hard games. And then you also got some that were really just cheap and unfair.

Also a problem with older adventure games, and with newer adventure games, you sort of were expected to be familiar with the level of arbitrariness that some puzzles just HAD and, as such, they got completely inaccessible to anyone new to the genre.
7274  Media / Single-Player RPGs / Re: The youthful protagonists thread on: April 26, 2009, 12:10:01 AM
JRPGs tend to focus on characters and dialogue.

That wasn't the case till the 32-bit era, with FFVI and PSIV standing out maybe as the two more character-centric, or at least attempting to be character centric, JRPGs from the 16-bit era. And even during the 32-bit* era, the majority of JRPGs were tending towards plot-centric storylines and not character driven storylines. I mean, in one sense, the entire 32-bit era was practically this plot twist arms race to see who could pull off the craziest plot twist, until it finally culminated into SO3's plot twist, and then nobody ever wanted a plot twist again.

Specifically, from the 32-bit era, I can think of some games that were trending more towards character-driven narratives, but they still had a huge tendency towards being built around huge plot twists** with the characters mostly serving as necessary vehicles for these twists. I'm not saying it was all like that--Lunar, FFIX, and the Personas were sort of character-driven things. But then you get things like FFVIII, which didn't really develop any of the side characters at all***, or Xenogears, which tries to do character-driven but ends up not doing a very good job of it and sort of forces it to take a backseat to the invented mythology of the world or, like FFVII, uses the characters as means for plot twists.

* I think today would be the Quad-Core 128-bit era or something. INNOCENT TIMES, my friends.

** At least in one sense, Aeris was a completely irrelevant character because her entire purpose seemed to be that plot twist. I think the game was lampshading this. Maybe it wasn't. I don't know.

*** The problem with the orphanage scene was not that it was deus ex machina. The problem was that it reduced everyone other than Squall and Rinoa into an anonymous glob.
7275  Media / Single-Player RPGs / Re: My Friends that plays rpgs... annoys me to no end on: April 25, 2009, 11:44:30 PM
Or really any Western RPG, as they tend to be conversation light and have handy quest logs.

Unless, of course, you're playing something like Torment, which is, uh, nothing but an endless wall of text. Or Ultima 5-7, which are conversation-heavy and lack quests log. Or Betrayal at Krondor, which is conversation-heavy and lacks a quest log. Or Albion, which is conversation-heavy and lacks a quest log. Or Summoner 2, which is conversation-heavy and... may or may not have a quest log. Or Star Control 2, which is conversation-heavy and lacks a quest log. Or the Quest for Glory games, which are conversation-heavy and lack quest logs. Or Wizardry 8, which is fairly conversation heavy to the point where you can assign personalities and talkie bits to your random characters, and to the extent that the NON-random characters you pick up are fairly well developed, and the journal, while present, isn't great.

I could list several other games, but I'm not going to because I'm honestly just confused by Sacred coming up, even though that wasn't hugely well received or popular in any capacity.

Also, seriously now. OP dude. It's not cool to make fun of your friends behind their backs online 'cause they enjoy games in a different way than you do. Making fun of other people online that you don't know in person is one thing and totally acceptable, but heaping derision* on your IRL buddies because they're not as into gaming or whatever isn't very nice.

* I need to not listen to The Wall.
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