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7471  The Rest / General Discussions / Re: The Irony Is Raping Me II on: January 20, 2009, 11:44:46 PM
So here's my question: when did rape change from being one of the worst things you can do to someone to something that we casually joke about?

About two months ago.
7472  Media / Single-Player RPGs / Re: Help me play Fallout. on: January 20, 2009, 01:48:39 AM
Actually I just meant that Fallout 3 is a first person RPG and Fallout 1 has a control scheme more akin to X-Com. Saying one has better controls than the other doesn't make any degree of sense because they don't control in comparable ways, and the gameplay setup of both necessitates the different control schemes. I've never played Fallout 3, am unable to play Fallout 3, do not have much interest in playing Fallout 3 (A. Still need to finish Wasteland first. B. I have no confidence that Bethesda can make good games. Just because I like Morrowind and Arena doesn't mean I think they're well-designed), and was strictly speaking about an empirical fact that can be known even without having played the thing.


In any case, the problem with making a sequel to a well-loved game is that the fans will never be happy with it, and I've seen this happen enough that I think I can come up with a pseudo-equation as to why the only response to a sequel to a well-loved game is going to be dissapointment.

Most generally, though, it's because the player doesn't have an emotional investment/emotional connection with the new game. It works like this.

1. If the sequel is not better than the new game, it will be viewed as an utter failure and dissapointment, irregardless of its quality. This is because the fans of the original had unreasonably high expectations for it.
2. If the game is as good as the original, it'll still be seen as a dissapointment for not improving on it. See step 1.
3. If the sequel is better than the new game, then liking it would mean that they player would have to make the sequel their new favorite game. Doing so would make them lose, or tarnish, their emotional attachment to the first game. So, they won't let themselves like it, and then see step 1.

Two related points:

4. Fans will expect the developers to include every sort of feature they requested in the sequel. Otherwise, they'll hate it.
4a. Problem 1: Gamers generally have no idea how to make games and all of theire features would probably make the thing fall apart if implemented. See step 1.
4b. More likely, the developer does take this advice, and the game falls apart. See step 1.
5. Fans tend to latch onto relatively minor features. Fans might also latch onto features that make the game completely unappealing outside of the fanbase.
5a. Attempting to broaden their market, the developers remove these features and the fans accuse them of selling out. See step 1.
5b. The developers never really cared that much about these features, and never considered implementing them in the first place. See step 1.
5c. The developers take the features out because they WERE genuinely bad things, but the fans loved them because, in viewing the game as perfect, took an apologetic stance and convinced themselves the features were good. See step 1.
6. Each fan has their own expectation for what the sequel should be. This is often out of line with the developer's ideas. See step 1.

This problem is worsened by a game's fanbase generally having a fairly bad memory. Case in point, I recently read a review for Eternal Eden that said it had less detailed graphics than Final Fantasy IV. Uh, what?

Really, though, there are plenty of Fallout 3 reviews out there that draw attention to things that Fallout 3 removed from Fallout 2, such as mature discussions about rape, pedophilia, and other "darker" subject. Maybe I played a different Fallout 2, but I just remember a profusion of bad sex jokes and inappropriate references to Stargate and Lost in Space. I mean, it had sex, but it was little more than a mess of purility*. Fallout 1 toned the bad humor down, but I don't recall any rape.

* Did it bother anyone else that you could have a lesbian character, but not a homosexual male character?
7473  Media / Single-Player RPGs / Re: Help me play Fallout. on: January 19, 2009, 08:37:06 PM
Perhaps too complex was a poor choice of words, but I still fail to find it entertaining. Perhaps it just felt plain boring to me, who knows? I guess there is no objective reason for this dislike. *shrugs*

Well, honestly, as I said, I didn't like Fallout 2 much. And as I said, it's not the battle system that's the problem, but how the particular combats are set up. I recommend playing Fallout 1 instead. I can't really explain WHY the battle mechanics work better there, but it's a much more strategic proceding.

Well, why. Okay.

In Fallout 1, you had more of a tendency to get into fights with raiders and things that were actually potentially damaging. Fallout 2 had this tendency to throw lots of really weak enemies at you. So while Fallout 1 had shorter, more difficult fights, Fallout 2 just had really long slogs against fairly weak enemies that never did anything interesting.

But yeah, I found FO2 boring as hell.

Fallout 3 does handle better than its predecessors in terms of control.

They... that doesn't make any sense! They don't even control in a manner that's similar enough to compare!
7474  Media / Single-Player RPGs / Re: Debunked secrets. on: January 19, 2009, 04:39:13 PM
My favorite videogame rumor as of late was that Bob's Game was a real project.
7475  Media / Single-Player RPGs / Re: Help me play Fallout. on: January 19, 2009, 04:34:57 PM
I keep trying to travel around, but anything more than a pack of rats absolutely tear me a new one.

The hell? Unless you really made your character wrong, this should not be happening.

and now, you shouldn't be grinding. You can't grind in fallout.

Your first stop should be going to the desert town right near the vault and getting quests there.

I found its system for combat too stupidly slow and complex to bother with and quickly proceeded to give up on it at the first Temple of Trial or whatever they call it.

Your characters can do a certain number of things per turn. Like, let's say 13. Walking uses up these things. LIke, one per tile. Shooting also uses up these things, depending on if you aim at a certain body part or not. Also, using items uses up your "things you can do" points.

That's pretty much the entirety of the combat system. It's not even remotely complex. And that's one of the reasons why it drove me kind of nuts in Fallout 2, because FO2 had a loooot more combat and dungeon crawling than 1. And the system isn't freaking geared towards that at all.

And I'll admit this right now: Loved Wasteland. Loved Fallout 1. Did not like Fallout 2. Partially because I felt it was too silly. Fallout 1 and Wasteland both had humor, sure. The difference is that Fallout 2's humor wasn't actually funny.

And as I said, Fo2 seemed way too skewed towards combat.
7476  The Rest / General Discussions / Re: Sea Kittens! on: January 17, 2009, 08:53:54 PM
So apparently there's an adbar on this page that displays relevant ads to the topic.


7477  Media / Single-Player RPGs / Re: Debunked secrets. on: January 17, 2009, 04:09:32 PM
ADOM had a bunch of bizarre ones, all of which were probably actually true even though nobody found them. Biskup >:((( One was like, something about a Red Rooster Inn, IIRC, and another involved a trident.

Various persitent rumors about thargoid ships in the Elite sequels.

Wasn't Solar Magic in Secret of Mana just refering to the game sometimes using different spell effects for certain spells, sometimes?

I like the rumors that end up being true the most, although there aren't as many of those. One that comes to mind is that weird moth enemy from FFIV.

OH. Pokegod rumors about the old pokemon versions. THOSE are funny because while they obviously weren't true at all about the old versions, the things people were calling Pokegods (Pikablue, Ho-oh) were basically people seeing Japanese screenshots from the sequels and getting confused. So kind-of-true stuff.

Also that bizarre Animal Crossing "camofrog is a rapist" rumor that I never understood at all.

Not RPGs, but Maxis had a fun tendency to intentional build things like this into their games. Especially SimCity 2K
7478  The Rest / General Discussions / Re: Sea Kittens! on: January 17, 2009, 01:22:15 AM
Sometimes mushrooms are referred to as meat with meat-words but aren't actually considered meat or something.

BTW, even if you're a vegan, unless you're strictly adhering to an organic diet, don't they, uh... isn't everything fortified with cyanocobalamin?

(If you're a vegan that strictly adheres to an organic diet, then I'm going to say that you're probably also into tinfoil hats and think the government blew up 9/11 instead of the terrorists).
7479  Media / Single-Player RPGs / Re: Persona port for PSP? on: January 16, 2009, 04:11:23 PM
If they do translate the remake, I totally hope they Americanize everything again just because pissed off megaten fanboys are sillydorable :3

And by that I mean make the main characters Americanized as hell but actually keep the rest of the game really Japanese (if not even MORE Japanese). That would be all kinds of crazy.
7480  The Rest / General Discussions / Re: RPGFan Super Game Journal Turbo II - The New Challengers on: January 15, 2009, 11:15:27 PM

Managed to get White Peace with Seljuk by... excommunicating my Steward for being a witch, which got my piety up high enough so that I could bargain with them. I gained about as many provinces as I lost in that war, but the ones I gained were more important cause they allowed me to ring the Caspian Sea, more or less, except for the south edge. Also, I took over the eastern branch of Azerbaijan, which is now situated in Lesbos for some reason.

Hungary keeps invading into Cuman territory, and me own Ryazan means I'm going to clash with Kievan Rus if they ever get their act together. Hungary's getting scary, though.

Good news is, I'm fairly close to Jerusalem, so if I decide to persue the Crusades more actively... I've got another 300 years of game left, though, so I plan on building up my infrastructure a bit. I'm going to need to be able to handle an army of 60k before I can seriously thing of taking the holy land, and I'm nowhere near that yet. Like, I can get an army of 30k assuming a grand mobilization goes perfectly. MAINTAINING that for a few years is another story entirely.
7481  Media / Single-Player RPGs / Re: SaGa 2 remake announced on: January 15, 2009, 09:14:13 PM
can someone tell me the difference between this game and the newer Saga games. I only played Unlimited Saga and Romancing Saga. and I also do not know anything about the former ones.


unlimited saga was more of a turn based strategy game than an RPG, in the sense that weapon and health preservation and maneuvering around are really important, and character stats don't really play a huge role.

saga frontier 2 is more like a traditional RPG in how it's balanced, but the gameplay progression is very episodic, and fairly linear. Basically, the story follows two characters over the course of about... 70 years?

saga frontier 1 is a fairly normal JRPg. It's rather nonlinear, you get seven main characters, and a ton of side characters. Some characters have fairly different gameplay systems.

Romancing Saga 1 and 3 are fairly normal non-linear SNES-era JRPGs. 3 doesn't have weapon breakage. I never played RS1 much, because I don't know Japanese, and the remake's just a lot more interesting

Romancing Saga 2 is kind of a life sim, apparently.

And then FFL1-3 are fairly normal console-style RPGs. 1 and 2 let you make your own parties. 3 does not. Also, robots in three don't make any sense and are basically just monsters.
7482  The Rest / General Discussions / Re: Sea Kittens! on: January 15, 2009, 08:48:12 PM
Some of the foods PETA lists as being vegetarian aren't actually vegetarian, BTW.
7483  The Rest / General Discussions / Re: RPGFan Super Game Journal Turbo II - The New Challengers on: January 15, 2009, 08:43:02 PM
Civ 4's manual really explains everything.
7484  Media / Single-Player RPGs / Re: SaGa 2 remake announced on: January 15, 2009, 06:00:15 PM
Square's never made a balanced game. If they have, I certainly don't remember it.
7485  The Rest / General Discussions / Re: RPGFan Super Game Journal Turbo II - The New Challengers on: January 15, 2009, 02:51:47 PM
All of your talk of epic medieval history and strategic dealings has made me play the next best thing (that I own), Civ4. I'm really not that good at the game, but for some reason I tend to do rather well. Part of that could be that I am playing on the second easiest (default) difficulty setting, but sitting down for a game of Civ relaxes me and I don't know if I quite want to lose that aspect by pumping up the difficulty. I'm playing with the Dutch (Willem Orange or something like that), and everything is peachy except with Joao II (Portugal). Who is a cunt. I think he poisoned my water supply. Back to why I'm bad, I never read the manual and the tutorial is pretty bad at introducing the more complex concepts of the game like espionage. So I basically don't know what I'm doing. I'm also really tired, so if none of this makes sense: my apologies.

If your town is sick, it could be because there are too many people in it. You're going to want to start capitalizing on resources like fish or anything else that gives health bonuses. You'll want fishing boats and engineers for that. Keep in mind that if you build, say, a hunting camp on a deer location, you're going to need to connect it to your city with roads.

Of course, it's also possible someone poisoned your water.

To do espionage, if the game works like older Civs in that regard, just build a spy unit and send it to the enemy town you've got a problem with. The game has pretty good fedback and extensive tooltips so it shouldn't be too hard to figure out.
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