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349845 Posts in 14272 Topics by 2246 Members
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7486  Media / Single-Player RPGs / Re: When do RPGs stop being fun? on: December 29, 2008, 12:20:11 AM
I wonder if something as basic as over all color scheme affect burnout.

The color patterns in Creatures 3 -- especially the weird silver speckling on the Grendel lower jaws -- made me want to quit playing it far before I realized how crappy the AI model was.

Not an RPG, I know, but you do have a valid point.

I think in regards to RPGs, crap fonts might be a bigger issue. Although really stuttery loadtimes/battle loads (Stuttery. Not long, necessarily) makes me get fatigued fast.
7487  Media / Single-Player RPGs / Re: Star Ocean: The Last Hope news.(56k Warning) on: December 29, 2008, 12:19:06 AM
I was talking more about the creepy face on the chair but yeah that's a good point too.
7488  Media / Single-Player RPGs / Re: Star Ocean: The Last Hope news.(56k Warning) on: December 28, 2008, 06:53:23 PM

7489  Media / Single-Player RPGs / Re: What are some RPGs where you play as the Villain? on: December 28, 2008, 12:45:06 AM
Chrono Cross, but not the entire time.

I don't know if that really counts.

Serge and Lynx swap bodies, but it's not like Lynx went Magus and had a change of heart, or Serge-Lynx suddenly decides to be evil. Now, in the sense that Serge not dying sort of fucked everything up that Crono and co. did... Yes.

Mary in Persona. Arguably.

Same as above, kind of, although it's ALSO arguable whether or not Bad Mary is really that much of a villain.

Xenogears, sort of.

Fei and Id were the same person although I'm not really sure Id was much of a villain and I always thought that was a really stupid plot point. Then there's the other thing where Elly is Miang and Fei, Lacan, and Fei's dad are all the same person only not, and Ramsus is a clone of... one of their progenitors, who was also Fei.

In like Fallout you can be a villain if you want. Like, go around planting dynamite on children and then watching as they scamper into a church or something. The game even notes this. Elder Scrolls games let you do this to although to a much lesser extent. and technically you can be evil in the Ultima games but this is sort of counter intuitive to *winning*.

In Wizardry IV you play as the villain from Wizardry I.

Wizardry IV is pretty much the most impossible RPG ever. Also I'm not sure it's even canon. Also Werdna's not really that well developed.

I don't want a hero or a villain, honestly. I want a Jake Barnes. Like...

http://www.storybites.com/babelgoose2.htm Liutov.

A meek person capable of doing terrible things and wonderful things and sort of opting to do both.

But maybe for that to matter you need more choice than JRPGs really provide.
7490  The Rest / General Discussions / Re: RPGFan Game Journal MXVII: Crisis Atelier Spectral Moon III on: December 28, 2008, 12:28:20 AM
I finished up Kanji's dungeon in Persona 4 last night. Shit, I don't think I've laughed so much at the way a bossed look.

When I say that that's the most beautiful grammatical mistake I've seen lately, I'm not being sarcastic, and that kind of makes me worry for my sanity.



* Got to Baalzack.
* Attempted fighting Baalzack.
* Repeat previous step thirteen times.
* Gave up on Baalzack. Got in boat. Took boat to somewhere else entirely.
Discovered where Liquid metal sword and sands of time are. Got sands of time. Can't get Liquid Metal Sword yet, because I have to do something involving Woman Kingdom first. Also got dream about using flutey thing in Rosehill. Rosehill having been previously discovered in my wanderings

Harvest Moon Rune Factory-

* I have no idea why I even bought this but it's pretty fun so far. It's got a nice atmosphere to it which a lot of the recent Harvest Moons have been lacking, and generally I appreciate the game getting away from rehashing the first harvest moon.
7491  Media / Single-Player RPGs / Re: When do RPGs stop being fun? on: December 28, 2008, 12:07:20 AM
"I know that playing this game is worth it--or should be worth it, but damn, I really don't like having to sit around listening to my characters talk so much or spend so and so many hours grinding or so forth."

This is basically why I like western RPGs more a lot of the time.

I was thinking about this earlier today, actually. I find a lot of JRPGs to be kind of abusive. Go to this dungeon now! Kill this boss! Go to this town immediately and view this cutscene! NOW! NOW! NOW!

Very bossy.

Western RPGs are more like "Well, you could go further the story, but if you're too weak for this storyline boss, there's some side dungeons you could play around in. Or you could go do something else. Whatever floats your boat."

The irony is that it was Dragon Quest IV that made me realize this. See, I was having a hard time fighting Baalzack and... whoever you fight before the. Instead of grinding, I just took my boat of and started exploring. Found the Liquid Metal Sword location, got some decent armor ahead of time, revisted some old towns and did a few sidequests. Came back after having leveled up naturally just in the course of messin' around, and beat Baalzack pretty easily.

Basically, RPGs stop being fun for me when you hit That Dungeon and you can't do anything else but do That Dungeon. Norturne was the most memorable That Dungeon for me. Or That Boss.

Basically, any snag that seems insurmountable without either a lot of grinding or otherwise jumping through hoops.

RPGs also have a problem with monotony, though. It's a genre where games last 40 hours and don't introduce any new gameplay after about 2. This is why I think dungeon design needs to be a lot more central so that dungeons are seen as *fun* to explore and getting to SEE a new dungeon is it's own reward. Additionally, actually introducing new stuff as the game goes along is nice. This is why Zelda and Metroid have done so well. You get new toys every few hours to string you along. In most RPGs, swords and bows basically behave the same way--they do damage after you pick "attack" in a menu somewhere. In Zelda games, swords and bows are very different entities.

Also, I really don't have a problem with long games, though I switch games around a lot. For instance, I've been playing Dragon Warrior 7... sort of consistently since I got it last September, and I'm about 60 hours in. Then again, I think sticking with a single 40 hours game from start to finish without, like, playing other games or switching off requires an ungodly amount of dedication and patience.

I tend to like open ended games with a simulation type aspect to them. That way there is no overall goal that you are forced to follow, you can create your own. A good example of this is something like the Unreal World. It's a wilderness survival game with no real ultimate goal. It's great. There are tons of different ways to play and different activities you can do to gain satisfaction.

URW also let's you survive however the hell you want to it's not like you NEED to set up a base camp every time you start a new character and start hunting hobos for food immediately thereafter. The game even facilitates this by providing something like, uh... 8 startup scenarios?
7492  Media / Single-Player RPGs / Re: RPG Overworlds and methods of travel. on: December 26, 2008, 12:44:31 AM
My favorite transport evolutions are probably in FF4, FF5, FF7, FF8, and Skies of Arcadia.

In regards to FFVIII, you had cars, chocobos, and the Ragnarok. In regards to the cars and chocobos, I can't think of any good reason to use either.
7493  Media / Single-Player RPGs / Re: Did FFVII ruin RPGs on: December 26, 2008, 12:42:38 AM
That was truely a breathtaking feat of garble

I'm just trying to elevate the discourse to the sort of incoherent meta-babble that comes out of literary and rock criticism.

In all seriousness, in regards to FFVII: One of your party members is a talking dog with a burning tail. I find this awesome and I'm not really sure why i should really think to deeply into anything beyond this.
7494  Media / Single-Player RPGs / Re: What elements would you take from various RPG's... on: December 26, 2008, 12:41:32 AM
You've got these great big dungeons and absolutely no reason to explore them. There may be rare exceptions, but in general what do I get for going out of my way to treasure hunt? Another medicine?

Most RPGs that put gear in dungeons either have crappy gear or gear you already bought back in town. Come on.

7495  Media / Single-Player RPGs / Re: Did FFVII ruin RPGs on: December 24, 2008, 12:08:08 AM
While your lack of a giant wall of text is refreshing, you should really just shut up about any perceived trolling.

I've been thinking about this for the past two days and I'd really like to offer up a heartfelt apology to all involved. Comments I made about trolling were very out of line.

Anyway, my thoughts on FFVII in particular...

My first couple of Square games were Secret of Evermore, Final Fantasy Legend 2, and Chrono Trigger, so this might shade my views, here, but coming into FFVII my only experience with Square HAD been there more sci-fantasyish games. Also, I think Earthbound I'd played before it too.

I think in one sense, FFVII might've been one of the most irreverent RPGs of the entire era. It's kaleidescopic and unabashedly bizarre, and insane and excessive. I'm not saying it had Earthbound's mysterious something or the abstract, paranoid hyperreality of SMT: Nocturne, but it's an important step between the two and serves both as a defiant middle finger to and a milestone for the games-as-art crowd.
7496  Media / Single-Player RPGs / Re: Breath of Fire fans, got some bad news. on: December 24, 2008, 12:04:28 AM
I thought DQ was neat but couldn't get into it. I thought BoFIV was neat but got sick of it pretty fast. I loved BoFII tilled I realized how broken it was on pretty much every level.

I'm not hugely confident in Capcom's game making abilities as a whole so I'm not really bothered by this :/
7497  Media / Single-Player RPGs / Re: RPG Overworlds and methods of travel. on: December 23, 2008, 11:59:15 PM
Walking, you just feel confined to a smaller area, and it's difficult to get far enough away to really explore, without having to drive soemwhere first.

I don't have a driver's license and walk everywhere. You'd be surprised at how much exploring you could do by foot. And how many weird little incidents you encounter (like a cable guy working on a latter, asking me to throw him some tool, for instance!)

Any way you handle it, if you handle it wrong it'll suck, but that's obvious.

I didn't like Chrono Trigger's world maps much as they were really small and didn't have a whole lot of places on them, especially in the distance past ages. Not only did this mean that you couldn't really hear the awesome overworld music unless you basically stopped moving, it also kind of deadened the feeling of really exploring a whole, big world.

Main problem I have with airships... I think they should be used for this Law of Miyamoto thing, where they let you get into some previously seen but inaccessible area. I don't think they're really used for that much anymore.

But yeah I think the biggest thing, no matter WHAT form you go with, is having enough locations in your world to explore to make it worth exploring.
7498  Media / Single-Player RPGs / Re: Ys The Ark of Napishtim difficulties on: December 23, 2008, 11:46:37 PM
I played the game for a couple of hours, to to the... second or third town, I think. I wasn't really getting into it. I found it fairly easy, but not very well balanced, as a lot of the enemies at a certain point can poison you, poison kills you rather quickly, and you have a limit on how many antidotes you can carry. It seemed rather grindy. I found the whole game pretty monotonous, and the controls felt really slidy. The flaccid smooth jazz soundtrack didn't really help things.
7499  Media / Single-Player RPGs / Re: What elements would you take from various RPG's... on: December 23, 2008, 11:44:33 PM
Technically, one of the outcomes would be Persona 3 because I'd combine Quest for Glory 2 with a roguelike.

I can't think of a lot of specific features, honestly. One thing I WANT to see in more games is a sort of "home base" with some degree of customization. Suik's fortresses, legend of mana's house, the dorm in persona 3, your room in the QfG2 remake (wasn't in the original, I don't believe). Maybe not so much city construction, although that can be a nice form of it. Houses in morrowind. The relto age in Uru.

Basically, something the player can call home, decorate a bit, something.

BIGGEST problem I have with... most RPGS, ever, is how linear *weapon* progression is. Most games are set up so you get to a new town, upgrade everyone's equipment, and ditch the old stuff. Dragon Quest is balanced so that this isn't always affordable or necessary, as I've said before, but it's still a pretty linear progression. Give weapons more unique properties or something, like in Morrowind kind of, or just stop messing with it and either get rid of standard equipment ala SMT:Nocturne or Torment, or adopt a Suik-ish upgrade system.

I also want more exploration. I guess I could say non-linearity but it's not really the same thing. I like non-linearity when it leads the player to discover Cool Stuff on their own as finding things is really rewarding. SoA's landmark system, maybe.

Also taking a page from QfG, non-combat stuff and puzzles with outcomes depending on your stats.

Or Persona 3 with demon conversations added back in.
7500  Media / Single-Player RPGs / Re: question about the DS FF4 on: December 23, 2008, 11:42:03 PM
I always thought getting lost and finding your way eventually was one the best elements in RPGs.

I do too, unless you can get really lost. This is why I like old Dragon Quest games and the first Phantasy Star and the Ultima series. You can get a bit lost but there are sort of recognizable landmarks and things to guide you along. Whereas in something like Daggerfall, there's kind of nothing.

Basically i think the goal should be to LURE the player in the right direction but still maintain a sense of tension and dread that they're not heading the right way, even though they are.
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