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Subject: 999 (Nintendo DS)
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7516  Media / Single-Player RPGs / Persona 3 on: December 03, 2007, 03:46:55 PM
Some of the characters are TOO nice, and the school's almost TOO happy of a place to be believable!

Persona, dawg. People ACT nice. That doesn't mean they ARE nice.

That and it's not like the main is giving anyone a reason to bully him.

That and if you're in a Secret Society of People That Can Shoot Themselves to Summon Demons you REALLY don't want to be pissing eachother off for several reasons that I hope should be obvious.

Also, and this is going to sound crazy, and I can only really explain it in terms of some rather obscure British PC games that I doubt anyone here has really played, but sometimes occaisional stupid decisions from the AI can make the AI characters endearing.
7517  Media / Single-Player RPGs / Persona 3 on: December 02, 2007, 03:39:00 PM
Normally, I would agree with you about the whole Persona-equipping-thing, but considering there are a bunch of characters within SEES, being able to equip anyone with whatever Persona you wanted them to have would sort of defeat the purpose of having all those party members.

Remember the whole 'too much customization is a bad thing' thing?

Persona 3 strikes a middle ground. You get a bunch of characters you can't customize, and one you can do whatever you want to. I like how it works out!

I'm also pretty sure the AI in Persona 3 'learns.' I've occaisionally seen, say, Junpei use an attack a certain shadow is immune to, but he literally says "Oh crap!" and never does it again and, for that matter, if you've analyzed the enemy, they'll start exploiting their weaknesses right off the bat.

Actually, are you guys using the analyze command? I'm starting to wonder if that plays a potentially large role in how the party members act. And why, say, some people find the AI ineffective and others are finding it very smart.

Yeah, the...artbook kind of gives that away.

And the manual, doesn't it? Or at the least main character personas evolving was in Persona 2 so yeah.

Kind of like how we get in good with people that we don't like because of whatever perceived benefit, IRL.

Which is the concept that I'm PRETTY SURE Jung's persona theories were based on anyway.


Holy ****, a concept RPG. I mean, I think that at the least, you have to respect that the gameplay elements actually relate back to the story and everything, on a more meaningful level than RIP AND TEAR. YOU HAVE HUGE GUTS.
7518  Media / Single-Player RPGs / Persona 3 on: December 02, 2007, 12:02:22 AM
I like having to talk to characters to equip them and check their status. It forces you to interact with them, which achieves some sort of counter-disenfranchisement of the unit type thingy.
7519  Media / Single-Player RPGs / Overrated & Underrated (with a twist!) on: December 01, 2007, 11:58:32 PM
Yeah, Wizardry 8's the same... overall setting as setting. Different planet, but same story arc. And pretty fleshed out, too.
7520  Media / Single-Player RPGs / Overrated & Underrated (with a twist!) on: December 01, 2007, 01:08:29 AM
I think that's part of the reason why I like action/RPGs. Since many games eliminate all battle commands aside from "heal" and "attack", at least action-based game play forces the player to develop some sort of technique.

Games where you could really rape people with status effects were like, Wizardry 8, though ;) Sleep and blind also hurt defense a lot.

And you had potions of summon fire elemental.

Relatively useless attack items is a bit of a problem with the SMT games of late, actually.

Anyway, since you mentioned action/rpgs, the status effects in legend of mana can actually be immsensely useful on the hard modes. enemies have a lot of hp and can kill you pretty fast, so either tempering status attacks into your weapons or using synchros is quite useful. they don't really help as much on bosses, but regular battles can actually wipe you out, so yeah.

anyway, I'm also pretty sure status attacks could work in chrono cross. that series has a lot of really neat subtleties with the skill system that I didn't really pick up on the first time, and I'm also not in the mood to elaborate now but I might sometime (Very short version: CC lacking MP changes the focus from resource managment to resource allocation and in-battle strategy, and CT's combo system is far more intricate than I ever realized).

Anyway, I've started playing Soulblazer recently. Unless it starts crapping out massively, I might start adding that to the "underrated list." Filling int he town is *really, really cool,* and I like how you have a little hovering bit that shoots fireballs. And that it feels like a Genesis game. So yeah, maybe underrated

Which is how I feel about Illusion of Gaia too, sort of. This is another game I'm not really far in, but I think the action is really nice and fast, I like the character switching, I like how surreal it is, I don't like the translation sucking (BAD BAD BAD), and I think the dungeon designs are pretty neat. And stuff like the Incan Gold Ship, the pig... and just various little things that do sort of get under your skin and == brainfuck!

Also wanna play more of Ys III sometime to see how I feel about it.
7521  Media / Single-Player RPGs / Overrated & Underrated (with a twist!) on: November 28, 2007, 11:10:42 PM
"The challenge of RPGs is not strategy, it is resource and risk management."

Resource management and risk management are strategy.

Anyway, this is where also some of the stupid problems crop up. For instance, have you ever noticed that stat buffers and status attacks are pretty much useless in any console RPG thta's not a recent Shin Megami Tensei or Dragon Warrior game? If the chance of failure is always 100%, then risk management is sort of diminished since you have no real reason to be taking that risk in the first place.
7522  Media / Single-Player RPGs / Overrated & Underrated (with a twist!) on: November 27, 2007, 01:09:17 AM
I kind of feel that DemiKids is underrated.

Further babbling about Chrono Trigger, then. I think there are some games you have to be good at to beat, and some games you can still beat even if you suck at them -- either because they're easy, or because you can overcome any obstacle with enough gruntwork (levelling, pattern memorization, etc).

I think some easy games can be fun, not in a mindless fun sense, but in the sense that you can still fly around the screen and do all this crazy, awesome stuff and it's bright and colorful and whatever. And I think some easy games are boring if you're just hammering the attack button.

And I think there are some games that you can beat, relatively easily, without being good at them, but they're only fun to play if you ARE good at them.

This is analogous to, say, willing suspension of disbelief, but I'm not really sure exactly what I'm saying or how it relates.

Or in other words, is Hugh REALLY useless in Phantasy Star 2, or is he only useless because people aren't willing to use him?

(Additionally, this is why battle systems with, say, only three, or even a single, character aren't necessarily less strategic. It's not about the number of actions or characters you get. It's about using the number of actions/characters you have effectively. If you have twenty characters that aren't that unique, you don't really have to think. If you have a single character up against a tough boss, you really have to make your single action count. Except that's not the only area where it matters. I mean, you also have to weigh costs and benefits of the actions you can do, so yeah, if you have one character and there's only a single action that ever makes sense, then not, it's not strategic there, either).
7523  Media / Single-Player RPGs / Help suggest Games like DQ8 on: November 27, 2007, 12:57:12 AM
I really liked FFX's battle system. Sphere grid not as much, but I didn't think it was bad, really, just unrefined. But yeah, I'd say FFX's battle system is pretty much the best in thta series, where as I think the earlier games with ATB... don't really use it and it just makes things take to long, FFVI-IX I thought did alright with it, and XII sort of felt to me like some bastardized CT meets Diablo thing.

Basically though, CTB is sort of a precursor/variation on the press-turn idea we see in the recent SMT games, which is neat. There are actually a few other games that have used it first and are much closer to CTB but I can't remember them. I know USaga used it, and I think a few PC RPGs did, and I'm almost positive Grandia and Xenogear's systems were both similar. Chrono Cross' stamina points weren't *too* far off, although they were more of a genuinely turn-based variation on ATB (and a little closer to what Septerra Core did, except... not as... slow.)

Anyway, I don't know if any DQ games ever implemented this. It DOES seem that certain spells tend to get used quicker. As a whole, though, stats and status effects seem really important in this series, so I think it could prove an interesting addition in future installments to see how the two concepts work together.

I'll throw a suggestion out for the PC/Amiga classic albion, though. Not EXACTLY DQ8 like, but give it a shot and you might see why I think it'll appeal to that crowd.

Wizardry 8's not necessarily a bad idea either, and has a lot of, er, similarities in design philosophy. although 1-7 aren't really as similar, and neither is Forsaken Land on the PS2.


After playing DQ6 for a bit, it seems really slow.
7524  Media / Single-Player RPGs / Suikoden Favorites on: November 26, 2007, 03:58:11 PM
Okay, so apparently there WAS equippable armor. My other point was that I didn't find the game particularly memorable, so yeah.
7525  Media / Single-Player RPGs / Overrated & Underrated (with a twist!) on: November 26, 2007, 03:48:13 PM
Shining Soul 2 also has a fair ton of other secret things, mind.
7526  Media / Single-Player RPGs / Suikoden Favorites on: November 25, 2007, 05:50:20 PM
I've only played 1 and 3 and didn't like them very much. 1 didn't really have any equipable items or anything, which isn't necessarily bad, but it makes me feel less like I'm discovering stuff?, and the dungeon designs weren't that great. The battle system was also some sort of proto-breath of fire thing that never did anything for me. I remember levelling and then just sort of hammering attack a lot. I never got to any of the strategic battles, but the game just wasn't holding my interest.

I never got far in Suik 3. It seemed to require more... strategy in the battles than 1 did, but I remember it being really slow and... slow.  

I guess as a whole, for both, I'd say pretty un-memorable and generic.

People tell me Suikoden 2's better but they mostly focus on the store. It sounds like it plays the same.
7527  Media / Single-Player RPGs / Overrated & Underrated (with a twist!) on: November 25, 2007, 05:48:06 PM
There's no need to nitpick just for the sake of nitpicking.

But what else is the internet for D:

Anyway, everything else I've heard about Dungeon Siege ranges from "really bloody terrible" to "mediocre at best."

Anyway, I'll start again. I'm doing Freelancer since the space trader genre is large RPG to being with, and Freelancer is even moreso because it's completely devoid of flight/space-sim elements (to the point where I'd call it Diablo in Space). Also, you level up in it.

+ No Newtonian Flight. This would be a major minus for a lot of people, except physics get sort of annoying.
+ Actually stuff to explore in space. Asteroid forests, derelict ships, etc. Making exploration fun is important. Like, the opposite would be Daggerfall or something, where you can explore as much as you want and never find *anything.* Or to stay closer to the space RPG genre, Frontier: First Encounters? Yeah. Boring world. No. (Or FFXII, even. Do you ever FIND anything other than random chests in those huge, outdoor areas?)
+ The setting was really well thought out, I felt. As much as I love Space Rangers 2, it got goofy. This isn't quite as good as say Star control 2, of course, but what is? Also, I'm not talking realistic here, as the game isn't. Instead, it has a sort of space opera realism, and it does remain pretty consistent in feeling.

- Static economy. In a game where trading is pretty important, this is a *massively bad thing.* I'm not sayin' X2-level detail here, but
- Random mission generator that only gives you three different missions. Kill ships, kill A ship, and cargo run. No base defense? Escort? Bombing run? Come on, kids. Those are staples. Alternatively, ditch missions entirely and go the Space Rangers 2 or Hardwar route -- dynamic conflict between warring factions.
- Combat's not very interesting. As I said, Diablo in Space. Only whereas in diablo you could kill a horde in seconds, making it fun and explodey, Freelancer has the problem the Wing commander games had -- endless dogfights where you're just following the other guy around. only this time you can both hammer shield regend/nanites constantly.

(I feel like doing some additional aesthetic nitpicks).

+ Gorgeous ship designs. Sort of EVE-like with a touch of Star Wars. Vaguely, I don't know, Stargatesy?
- But the scale is really screwed up. And all of the planets are on the same level. What the hell? It looks really bad.

Anyway, I nominate Thomas Pynchon's Gravity's Rainbow. Actually, that might now count as an RPG since it's pretty heavy on the FPS elements too and statistics have a reduced role. Hm...

Gameboy Bonanza!!!

- Sword of Hope (1 or 3)
- Dragon Warrior Monsters (1)
- The First US Fire Emblem Game

(Oh crap wrong thread for that)

Oh well. Anyway, someone mentioned Shining Soul 2. I never played that a lot but I thought it was pretty neat. I do like Diablo 2 more though. Partially because it looks VAGUELY like Golden Sun to which I pretty much dislike more than any other game ever (More than the games I hate. It's too generic and I can't even get *mad* at/about it). Partially because the dungeons don't seem randomized.

And I generally feel that the turn based roguelikes are better as a whole.
7528  Media / Single-Player RPGs / Overrated & Underrated (with a twist!) on: November 22, 2007, 10:34:04 PM
Q) What about games that were rated very well and you don't disagree with the good ratings, but you think they were rated well for all the wrong reasons, and like, the reviewers/games overlooked the REALLY good stuff there?
7529  Media / Single-Player RPGs / Help suggest Games like DQ8 on: November 21, 2007, 04:33:27 PM
this is not a flame i merely seek understanding.

A) Put enemies to sleep?
B) Use weapons that hit multiple enemies?
C) Change weapons in battle if you need to? It doesn't cost a turn to do so.
D) Use magic?

Nothing was written here ever.
7530  Media / Single-Player RPGs / A practice in objectivity on: November 21, 2007, 04:27:18 PM
- dont use the trademark of the series= srpg with regular rpg gameply.

Okay. Shining in the Darkness was not a strategy game. Shining Force was. We know this. Now stop complaining about a game lacking elements from its parent series that didn't even exist when said game came out.

Also, Terranigma was already done. Did anyone do... Hm... Live a Live or Bahamut Lagoon?
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