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Next Quiz Date: January 11, 2014
Subject: 999 (Nintendo DS)
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319060 Posts in 13031 Topics by 2145 Members
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7846  Media / Single-Player RPGs / Combat Engines: Menu Based Versus Direct Input on: May 16, 2007, 08:45:20 PM
Nocturne watered down demon dialogue and demon fusion big time.

Monster dialogues were long and never made any sense in the first two games. There's not any less guess work and they're not deeper. They just take longer and are more expensive.

and maybe thefusion was toned down, but the individual monsters were more interesting than in the SNES games. And the overall product just felt more strategic. SMT1 and 2 had more features but they never really amounted to much depth to me.

Also, CT's battle system wasn't much different from FFVI's. The battles on the map thing was purely visual and had no affect at all on gameplay, combination attacks were a nice touch, and the whole enemy position thing never seemed to matter much.
7847  Media / Single-Player RPGs / Phantasy Star III Defies All Logics on: May 16, 2007, 08:35:42 PM
Long, boring post that nobody read.

Yes. It's an early 16-bit era RPG. None of them make sense. Stop expecting them to.

Also, PS1 was the one where you had to go through a long and confusing dungeon to find a cakeshop. In a monster infested dungeon.

You needed cake to see the Governor of the Planet.
7848  Media / Single-Player RPGs / Combat Engines: Menu Based Versus Direct Input on: May 16, 2007, 12:03:01 PM
Not only did it make capturing demons needlessly frustrating, but it took away the whole Megami Tensei angle of talking to them to get them to join you.

Oh, that's not the problem. You know how easy it would be to inplement a turn based talky system? Stun the enemy, walk up to them, and instead of throwing out a poke electric green tube, just pause the combat, and popup some sort of talking interface.

I think the real problem with that combat sysem is the terrible camera angle, cramped interface, cramped battlefield, and the fact that raidou's attacks never get more interesting. Also it's slow as hell and has really strange feeling controls.

If it'd had Battles More like Rogue Galaxy it would've been a lot better. I mean, let's just imagine that, say, Raidou could jump and smush enemies, and that the battlefield was... actually large enough to play in.

Also why even include demon loyalty if they can't get LESS loyal through lack of proper care? Or if, for that matter, it doesn't do anything anyway?
7849  Media / Single-Player RPGs / Combat Engines: Menu Based Versus Direct Input on: May 16, 2007, 05:41:16 AM
RPGfan doesn't seem to like modern oldschool RPGs, or RPGs without stories. In spite of this, a lot of people seem really hyped about the game. I'm predicting they're going to hate it because it just seems completely at odds with the sort of thing they usually play, so I'm rather confused as to why they're all hyped up. I mean, it's basically oldschool Wizardry from what I can tell. IS Wizardry popular here? For that matter, are first person dungeons in and of themselves popular here?

And, er, honestly, I like wizardry and oldschool RPGs. Wizardry 1 I enjoy playing, and I think it has more going for it than, say, Ultima 1. But Wizardry's moved beyond that point a long time ago. 6-8 just had much, much better developed gameplay. So did Tales of the Forsaken Land. Both of those also had rather strong stories.

I don't mind oldschool at all, but oldschool for the sake of kitsch just doesn't do anything for me, because I grew up in the 90s, and the self-referential humor and metaness is lost on me. Especially bothersome, though, when people start mining the really archaic recesses of oldschool that not even oldschool gamers play much. Something like Wasteland is still fully playable, but a lot of pre Bard's Tale games are just...
7850  Media / Single-Player RPGs / Combat Engines: Menu Based Versus Direct Input on: May 16, 2007, 03:20:01 AM
First and most importantly, I think you're all going to hate Etrian Odyssey.

Okay, back on topic.

I don't care if genres homogenize. I don't really care about *genres*. I've never not played a game or read a book or listened to some sort of music or whatever because its genre. Individual entities within thar zhean-rahs are more important than whatever genre they're supposed to be acting as the best of breed for.

Also, RPGs aren't even a real genre. An RPG is a set of various standards or ideas or vague gaming feature concepts that nobody seems to agree on anyway. Ergo I don't see why this matters.

Anyway, whether a game is an action RPG or a menu-driven RPG isn't worth discussing to debate the subtle differences between the two. Because there aren't any. They're very different play styles.

Ooooh, I will say that certain menu based RPG don't set off any sort of "This is a game!" flag in my mind. Chrono Trigger comes to mind. I played that for an hour and it was a very mechanical experience that did not engage me in anyway. Save for the dinotank boss, I was mostly just hammering the X button to get through a bunch of fights I didn't really care about. Phantasy Star 2 was another one I played sort of semi recently. Press the confirm button, let the auto battle do whatever, go make some blintzes and fall asleep listening to the sounds of the fratboys playing cornhole int he little park between Harschmann and Kreischer.

Only thing I hate more than fratboys is cornhole. Come be my hero soon, Kunio-sama.

Of course, plenty of action RPGs that trigger the same "I am not aware" response. Dewprism, for instance. Bashing the X button to pick a menu option to attack and bashing the X button to swing your weapon thing aren't really that different, I guess.

Also, this entire argument is a bit vague. There are millions of ways to handle menu driven combat and action driven combat (CAAAAARS. vroomvroom chainsaw races). Shadow Hearts had that command wheel thing. For instance. Also ATB isn't action based, but it is real time. And Star Ocean 2's battle system is even more real time, but you're still basically dealing with menus -- or at the least, manual control is reduce. FFXII? You don't manually attack. Totally menu driven. Seeeeee?

puhuteko minusta?

merry christmas
7851  Media / Single-Player RPGs / Dawn of Mana on: May 15, 2007, 09:50:47 PM
The main complaints aren't from being divided up into levells or having a weird level-up system. From what I've heard, the camera sucks, and the physics are completely broken.
7852  Media / Single-Player RPGs / FFXII what do you think about it? on: May 15, 2007, 01:21:04 PM
pop-culture bullshit they threw at us with X and X-2

Yes, quite. FFX was written by 15 year old girls :( This makes me sad because I thought it was rather fun but jesus christ, tidus.

I didn't mind Tidus being all upset about his dad being a massive dick. That's understandable. It's every other thing they did. Tidus is sort of like Vaan, I guess, only in FFXII, everyone is always calling Vaan out for being retarded. I think FFX was trying to make Tidus seem not-retarded or something.
7853  Media / Single-Player RPGs / FFXII what do you think about it? on: May 15, 2007, 04:44:48 AM
FFXII didn't feel like FF to me either. I don't mean that in a bad way -- at least partially because i have no idea what ff feels like, given that i never grew up with that series and started with VII, which was arguablly the point where the series lost some of its FFishness (Or probably VI, really. V to VI had a really noticable stylistic shift, I'd say).
7854  Media / Single-Player RPGs / What to play next? Suggestions? on: May 15, 2007, 04:40:53 AM
The game still has a neat sort of ambience. I like darkish setting v. colorful world thing it has going, and all of the biomechanical stuff. But whatever. Setting doesn't really make for good games.

Anyway, I know dincrest (? maybe someone else?) disagrees with this, but I found advancement in PSIII a lot faster. Also, while the dungeons were lame, they were also painless. And I really did like the setting. The generation ship idea is neat, and I thought the way they had society having had degraded (what tense was that in, what I just said?) to a medieval state was really a nice touch.
7855  Media / Single-Player RPGs / Etrian Odyssey on: May 15, 2007, 04:38:50 AM
Skills from rare items is sort of why SD3's class change system bothered me. I like abstract systems as much as I like... less abstract ones, but... well, you all know what Nintendo logic is.

Learning skills from items didn't really bug me in FFIX or FFTA. Then again, skill systems that don't really make sense is sort of an FF trademark. Although, FFIX's system WAS a sort of awkward half-way step between the less abstract ideas behind Espers, GFs, and Materia (which were, in a sense, different kettles of the same fish. Or something like that) and the more abstract ideas of, say, license boards and sphere grids.

Granted, I must say that I prefer more straightforward skill systems like in Fallout or something. FFV/FFT had pretty straight forward skill systems via the whole class-based gameplay thing. Pick skill tree. acquire/buy skills. Nothin' strange.

Granted, materia, GFs, and espers had the whole Pokemon/collectibility thing behind them, which is always fun.
7856  Media / Single-Player RPGs / Unlimited Saga worth palying ? on: May 15, 2007, 04:28:52 AM
Well, I'll probably regret saying this, but US wasn't half-assed. Whether the results were pleasing is something else entirely. Kawazu made the game he wanted to make, and there weren't millions of bugs or unimplemented features or clipping errors that would send you spinning off into The Void because you accidentally went into climb mode on a near-vertical ramp (Hi Daggerfall). I think everyone can say they have their own idea for a game they thing would be incredibly fun that nobody else would likely enjoy (Case in point, a decent number of amateur game devs like it. Amateur game devs tend to like bizarre vanity projects like that, probably because they like picking systems apart). In any case, his project, he wanted to do it, he did it, live and let live.

Bad games that are completely half-assed are a completely different story. Sort of like how I feel about Daggerfall. I don't mind buggy games. I do mind it when games adopt a completely... insane method of handling file input and data storage, and then flaunt it. Also, skills that don't do anything. That bothers me. That's like a carrot dangling in front of your nose, and it's an awesome carrot, because it promises all sorts of wonderful things, like being able to talk to dryads, or something involving complex political relationships between towns. But then you never see any sort of indication of that in the game and it's just dissapointing.

Then you have stuff like Quest 64.
7857  Media / Single-Player RPGs / What to play next? Suggestions? on: May 14, 2007, 11:39:16 PM
I think PSI has aged better than II. A bit faster paced, and the characters are sort of more interesting. The dungeons were also... I dunno, you could get out of them with the right hand rule, and the encounter rate seemed lower, too. The game also had a few more adventure game elements, and you never really had to level grind past the initial, pre-Odin bits. Entire thing just felt more well-rounded, I guess.
7858  Media / Single-Player RPGs / Unlimited Saga worth palying ? on: May 14, 2007, 11:22:05 PM
Play as Laura or Ruby. Armic and Judy ARE hard. Kurt isn't hard as a hole, but the... second or third quest he has is insane.

also, when you're in the inns and select the "talk" option, the dpad cycles between people at the inns. The manual doesn't mention this either, IIRC. This is important because it is how you get characters.

In spite of its flaws, reading the manual is sort of important. Also, if you have any other questions, alonso, just email me at suzaku.gaiden@gmail.com. I know a lot of the faq writers on gamefaqs and can maybe clarify some of the stuff if you have questions.
7859  Media / Single-Player RPGs / 16:9 PS2 RPG? on: May 14, 2007, 06:33:29 PM
I see a lot of people complaining that games don't support HD or widescreen or whatever.


I just wish I had a TV that had stereo sound.
7860  Media / Single-Player RPGs / Question about FFT. on: May 14, 2007, 12:00:10 PM
Try X-Com for the PC or something. X-Com is faster paced. Well, UFO Defense is. Terror From the Deep has those really slow cruise ship missions. Apocalypse is slow in turn based mode because the maps are huge, but the RTS mode is pretty quick.

Oh, Jagged Alliance 2 for the PC might be a good choice too. Also pretty fast paced, and even more RPGish. Coolest thing is that there are no generic soldiers in the game. All of the mercenaries you can hire are unique. And it's even more RPGish than X-Com, I'd say, cause you have a traditional 'worldmap' -- more accurately, island map -- to move around on.

From what I remember, Knights of Lodis is even slower than FFTA. And in regards to both FFTA and KoL, it wasn't that, like, the GAMEPLAY felt slow to me. It's like the entire software seemed like it was running at about half the FPS it should've been and was all laggy or something.
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