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Messages - Ramza

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16
Single-Player RPGs / Re: Nier 2 for PS4
« on: March 28, 2017, 04:37:06 AM »
Backstory presented outside of the game.  Mmph.  Well, if you do manage to find it in English, I'd appreciate a pointer.

Yeah. Yoko Taro does that, maybe too much. In this case though, the YoRHa stage play was released *years* before Automata's release. So for Japanese fans, they've had time. :)

Which is why I hope the thing gets subtitled, ASAP.

As for your insights on 2B, thank you. I think I know where you're coming from and ... yes, compared to the original NieR, that might be one of the weaknesses of Automata. Kainé alone was probably one of the most interesting characters in NieR, and there is no single character that lives up to that kind of narrative ... especially when you start Route B in NieR! :)

Spoiler: show
BUT ... short as their subplot may have been, the last pair of twin red-haired androids, Devola and Popola in Automata, might have been one of the greatest things ever. When they pull their swords and run at 9S and you're like "Jesus, not again" (if you played NieR) and then they keep running and take on machines so 9S can hack into the tower ... god I loved that scene.

17
Single-Player RPGs / Re: Nier 2 for PS4
« on: March 27, 2017, 09:38:27 PM »
2B never really strayed from the kuudere type

Thoughts about this and/or challenging this:

Spoiler: show

Remember that scene right after the first mission when 2B's left fist is down by her waist but you see her clench it? And we were all like "ok, there's emotion buried there, wtf is this?"

And then remember at the end of A/B paths, when 2B says "why does it ALWAYS have to end like this?" and then you're all "wtf is always?"

And THEEEEN remember at the end of C/D/E when A2 pulls out the truth on 9S? That 2B's true handle was "2E"? There's a side quest that explains what E-class YoRHa units do: they execute. They're assassins. The game keeps presenting it like 9S is getting paired with 2B to help her, when in fact (as 2B knows all along) she is getting paired with a 9S who keeps having the most recent bits of his memory erased so he never discovers the full truth, because he's THAT good and finding info and piecing things together.

2B breaks her mold, which ... forgive me, but I'm going to drop the Japanese-cliche language of "kuudere" and just go with "emotionless android" -- which is a fairly universal concept. Anyway, 2B breaks her mold. More than once. The end of A/B, and then from that point until her death, she is clearly 'alive' and 'self-actualized,' holding back nothing.


As for A2's backstory ...

Spoiler: show

more than the archives, her story is also buried in the Stage Play "YoRHa" -- which I've been trying to find w/ English subtitles but have failed to find so far. Most of the play is on YouTube, in segments. Of note, it's here you can determine for sure that the Commander, Jackass, Anemone, and A2 all knew each other as they were all part of the Pearl Harbor mission. They all had flower code-names back then. ("Anemone," alongside being a sea creature, is a flower name, so she didn't change hers.)

18
Single-Player RPGs / Re: Nier 2 for PS4
« on: March 24, 2017, 05:12:42 PM »
I should probably have played Automata before reading that though, eh, @Ramza ?

The piece is written with virtually no spoilers. There's only one thing in there that might be thought as such, but it was in the promotional materials for the game for months prior to release.

19
Single-Player RPGs / Re: Nier 2 for PS4
« on: March 23, 2017, 09:26:56 PM »
tooting my own horn...

If Christian theology is interesting to you, even if you don't subscribe to said religion (i.e. -- issues of grace, of what makes "choice" and "autonomy" real things) -- you may appreciate this piece I wrote for gamechurch.com on NieR Automata

http://gamechurch.com/redemption-song-grace-and-suffering-in-nier-automata/

20
Single-Player RPGs / Re: Nier 2 for PS4
« on: March 19, 2017, 10:44:27 PM »
Cool. I look forward to Ending A, provided it has a good final boss.

Get to B.

When you start B you do *not* start from the beginning. You start a bit past the halfway mark. And you ... well, the story changes the entire time. You do all the same stuff, but now you can hear and understand things you didn't hear and understand before. You get Kainé's perspective, essentially.

So just play through to B. It's so totally worth it.

21
bump. It's up to episode 10 now. It's getting more and more amazing.

Would someone please do the Anime Strike trial with Amazon and check this thing out? I'd love to hear others' opinions.

22
Single-Player RPGs / Re: Nier 2 for PS4
« on: March 19, 2017, 12:43:21 AM »
Once I tried reading this site to try and understand how these games are all related...but it just made my head hurt and I gave up.

Still a fun game though.

That is helpful! Fun detail...

Spoiler: show

A2's first mission, the Pearl Harbor mission where she loses all her co-units, and then deserts, finds out the truth, and lives on to eventually meet 2B and 9S -- that's the entirety of the "YoRHa" stage play! Which I would love to see live...

23
Single-Player RPGs / Re: Nier 2 for PS4
« on: March 18, 2017, 11:58:13 PM »
actually the timeline goes drakengard 3 -> drakengard 1 -> Nier -> Nier Automata.

Did I or someone else suggest otherwise for the timeline?

(and again, note my spoiler tag. An android named "Accord" could someday be an important tie across the timeline!)

24
Single-Player RPGs / Re: Nier 2 for PS4
« on: March 17, 2017, 06:53:01 PM »
I agree that NieR is essential, or "NieRly-essential" (LOL).

Playing NieR Automata, IMO, is akin to a devout Christian reading the New Testament. NieR (1) is the Old Testament. When Jesus or Paul talk about Abraham, David, Jonah, and so many others, you may completely miss the value in those statements. And, sometimes? Those statements REALLY matter.

As for Drakengard ... you really don't need 3 (yet... though I suspect someday we will thanks to a certain character named "Accord"). Drakengard 1 gives you the root conflict that creates ... everything. My recommendation for Drakengard 1 would be to get on YouTube and find some videos that demonstrated the specific developments within Drakengard 1 that lead to NieR (and no, it isn't *just* "Ending E" ... there's more you ought to know about the entities that come through space-time to land in Tokyo, so you need more lore behind that).

And Drakengard 2 wasn't made by Yoko Taro and follows a timeline separate from the one that leads to NieR. It's not worth your time. Though ... I still kinda like evil giant baby angels. And there were lots of those in D2.

The "cameos" in NieR Automata are, in some ways, less relevant than those characters who do not make direct appearances. There is so much to appreciate, so much to speculate upon, by the time you finish Automata. SUPER SPOILER TIME!!

Spoiler: show

- There's Replicant DNA on the moon, you say? I wonder WHOSE it might be?!?!? It could be Kainé. It is almost impossible that it's NieR himself, as he was erased from the world in every way possible. But it could ALSO be Yonah!! And wouldn't "The Girl In Red," the hive-mind machine entity designed to look like her be tickled pink by this! Furthermore, the machines possess capabilities unknown to the androids. They were built by an alien race (which they, apparently, subdued to the point of extinction). They've also had thousands of years to develop, and to study the remnants of humanity. What if they can use that DNA to build a Replicant? And what if, somehow, they could find a soul, a Gestalt, to merge in? White chlorination / "The Scrawl" are not going to be found on the moon. The machines that shot out of the tower, which may or may not include the consciousness of 9S, may very well find a way to resurrect humanity after an 8000 year extinction. Kind of like Jurassic Park, but for humans instead of dinosaurs.

- Consider the cultural implications of the machines wanting to imitate, and take the role, of humanity. We see machines wearing the masks of the desert people from NieR -- and can even find Old World lore of the many ridiculous rules they lived by. Then there's Pascal, and her love of philosophy. But she's not the only one, is she? The *boss* creatures name themselves after famous philosophers, including Marx, Hegel, and Engels. Interestingly, you don't *know* that in Ending A path, because 2B can only read it in SERAPHIC. 9S can see their decoded names, however. What does it mean that some machine units are named after famous humans? What does it mean that Seraphic seems to be the language of coding and encryption in the world of NieR: Automata, when it is *originally* the text that added POWER to Words in the first NieR? It is TGCA (DNA) in Seraphic that we see when the Scrawl is crawling all over people in NieR. The Seraphic lettering were what we saw all over NieR, especially with magic. But in Automata, 9S is shooting out Seraphic lettering at enemies (while holding triangle) as he attempts to hack in. Is that an artifact of some sort? Or is there an innate power to this lettering, this script?

- As much as I LOVE Devola and Popola, they are not cameos, are they? The pair in NieR really and truly died. And, according to their account, this pair of Devola and Popola may be the last left of hundreds of pairs. The others were ordered to be eliminated because of their emotional outburst that many androids believe resulted in the end of Project Gestalt (and thus the end of humanity). In truth, if you've played NieR, you know that's not the case. But this exact experience is a big piece of *why* YoRHa androids are ordered not to display emotion. And it's why Dev/Pop were made all-but-extinct, with apparently the final pair reaching the resistance camp where you're stationed (according to the lore, it's in or near Nagoya). Nonetheless, Dev/Pop in this game feel a sort of shared burden with all their models for what happened, and they seek redemption. And in ch. 17-1, they get it, in one of the absolute best parts of the entire game. BUT, if you didn't see what Dev/Pop did in NieR, everything from the camera angles and character stances to the music won't resonate with you. The reference isn't just "nice." It's powerful. Powerful like when Jesus says "the only thing I'll give you is the sign of Jonah."

- The biggest value of NieR, to me, is that NieR is GONE. He is 1000% erased from existence. And yet, Taro et al saw fit to name this game "NieR: Automata." Why? So the hardcore fanbase could talk it up? Was it just a shitty PR stunt about a game loosely connected to its predecessor? Hardly. Automata is a game about choice. "NieR" was about the power of words. "NieR: Automata" is about the power of choice, and who does/doesn't have self-determination, and what it means when you believe this or that entity does/doesn't have it. But language is one of the key ways we get across from one entity to another that, indeed, we're one of those creatures that have self-ownership. All of that traces back to a crazy guy who sacrificed everything, and whose Replicant clones would also sacrifice everything, for his daughter. And what does it mean that he's now gone? Gone from the records, gone from memory, gone from history? A hell of a lot, actually. We also have no idea who the hell those aliens are. They're a mystery. But unlike the aliens, we are more-than-haunted by the lasting effects of that one man, NieR. He may have been the undoing of humanity, but on the other hand, he extended humanity's life by 1500+ years. The androids wouldn't be here, and the aliens would have found a barren planet. EVERYONE's existence in Automata is predicated on the actions of the man named NieR. NieR, of course, is also listed over and over in the Project Gestalt documents as "The Original." We can't know his name, but we know an entity named "The Original" brought about these events. We can't 'put words' to it, though. Words have power, you know.

25
Single-Player RPGs / Re: Nier 2 for PS4
« on: March 16, 2017, 11:53:42 PM »
Also, well come to Yoko Taro games. I hope you enjoy the weirdness. Theres always a lot of weirdness in his games.
I am loving the weird.  One of the best things a writer / artist / director can do is take me somewhere I wouldn't have gone on my own.

Same. And this is exactly the case. Give me 8000 years, I couldn't have written something as special as this lore, which goes from Drakengard 1 (Ending E) thru NieR and NieR Automata.

Previously, if you asked me my favorite game or franchise based on story alone, I'd have coin-flipped on Zero Escape and Persona 3/4.

Now it is plainly NieR, because of Automata. I simply think it's *that* good.

26
Single-Player RPGs / Re: Nier 2 for PS4
« on: March 15, 2017, 01:14:03 AM »
this game also has the greatest Romeo and Juliet adaptation ever made. It was, dare I say, Shakespearean in quality

I was reminded of the film "The Prestige," or the famous saying from Highlander.

I really liked it. :)

27
Single-Player RPGs / Re: Nier 2 for PS4
« on: March 14, 2017, 10:53:06 PM »
  • The music is better than the original Nier.
  • The music is better than the original Nier.

Early to make that call, eh?

I've cleared the game now, Endings A-E, and I'm not sure. There is certainly MORE music, and more vocalists, and ... I *think* almost every song in the game has an 8-bit equivalent already created.

So it's overwhelming.

But at the end of the day, some of my favorite moments in the game were when songs from the first NieR were directly re-used (saying which ones would be major spoilers)

But yeah... this game is a PERFECT sequel to a game that I thought couldn't *have* a sequel.

28
Single-Player RPGs / Re: Nier 2 for PS4
« on: March 12, 2017, 03:12:18 PM »
Anyone else noticed a huge spike in the difficulty of side quests after
Spoiler: show
defeating the goliath that appears in the city


I mean, my level is still in the teens and before that I was fighting enemies of comparable, maybe slightly higher level.  All of the sudden I'm fighting enemies with levels in the upper 30s...it was such a big and sudden jump I almost feel like I'm doing something wrong.

You noticed correctly.

Skip those you can't complete now. Trust me, after you get ending A, you're going to *want* to new game + to get the full story. Those subquests, I suspect, were very much meant to be done during NG+. (that, or, turn on easy + Auto-chip and enjoy leveling up while not even touching the controller)

29
Single-Player RPGs / Re: Nier 2 for PS4
« on: March 08, 2017, 03:21:27 AM »
I've read there are actually 26 endings, one for each letter of the alphabet.  However most of them are bad/joke endings.  A-E are the 'real' endings.

Holy crap I love this game. That's ridiculous.

30
Single-Player RPGs / Re: Nier 2 for PS4
« on: March 08, 2017, 02:54:01 AM »
I sunk 4 hours into it late this evening.

Let's just put it this way...

I'm so close to the finish line for graduate school. And there was one point tonight where I thought "maybe I should just drop out of school and play this until my eyes bleed."

Also, I've been keeping count of unique tracks with Emi Evans voice. I count 4 so far. There are other vocalists too, but Emi's my fav. She also does duets with other singers (S-E released that in a video, the combat demo versus that evil theater/ballerina boss ... that song is dope).

A review on Polygon said something along the lines "when I beat the game the first time, I got a good night's sleep. When I reached the true ending, I could barely sleep at all."

Word is it goes to Ending E. Though I wouldn't be surprised if "B" has the big reveal and true-ish ending, per Yoko Taro tradition. I am already forming theories that I'm sure will be wrong. But I am loving it and can't wait to see how not-self-contained this story is, despite marketers saying you'll be just fine playing without the other games. Which you will ... you'll be blissfully ignorant of the valuable tie-ins. :)

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