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901  The Rest / General Discussions / Re: What's the haps? on: January 07, 2014, 04:32:23 PM
Curious folks, has anyone ever experienced motion sickness, dizziness or nausea from a specific game?

I never have, until now. I finally figured out why I'm having such a hard time with FFXIII-2. After as a little as a half hour of play I start to feel sick.... I thought this was because I didn't like the game, but I have confirmed that is not the case. The camera during battle somehow makes me feel sick.

Let me repeat I HAVE NEVER experienced this. I have played many looooong game sessions before, with lots of different titles. Nothing from Chrono Trigger to Alice Madness returns to Mario 3d world or Zelda Wind Waker made me feel physically ill.

I'm at the point where I actually may, for the first time ever, youtube the movie version of this and Lightning Returns.

Does anyone have any suggestions? Like, if I play more will can I grow "used to it"? This is sort of disheartening for me... Although I didn't love this game, I was pretty determined to make it through for the sense of completion and move onto part XIII.
902  Media / Single-Player RPGs / Re: Warming up to a new title on: January 06, 2014, 04:42:23 PM
the possibility you like something because it's ADDICTIVE but not necessarily FUN,

This statement you made lingered in my mind for days Mesh... I was hesitant to admit it but I think you hit the nail on the head here for me. I totally do this. In fact after really reviewing the experience I've had with XIII-2 thus far, I can safely say that is exactly what is happening to me with that game right now.

I have been calling myself a completionist for the longest time. I totally believed THAT was why I played through things even though I hated them. I now think this has been a misplaced or misguided observation of my habits.


Dirty secret: There are very, very, very few games I can play for an extended time without getting burnt out, and I basically never finish games. Ever.

I'm actually envious or that, nothing to be ashamed of there. To NOT finish something I can identify as something I don't want to (and be OK with it) would be huge for me. I can't imagine accomplishing something that would provide me with a greater sense of fulfillment than being able to drop a game. That nasty leg of my personality extends its threads into other facets of my life aside from gaming. While this character flaw of mine is a strength in many respects (work, responsabilities et cetera...) it REALLY strangles the fun-factor of games for me at times.

 For some reason it almost always feels wrong to start a new game. Like, I should be focusing on the game I need to play for work. I'm always afraid I'll enjoy the game I wanted to play so much I won't make my deadlines. This has never actually happened, and I can balance work and fun just fine, but starting a new game remains scary...

THIS^^ I totally understand. The difference is I self impose deadlines on myself based on release dates or imaginary time restricted goals. The difference being, your deadlines are real with consequences, while mine are not.

To draw from my current Tales Vs. XIII-2 experience.

With no desire for years to play XIII-2 or return the XIII franchise since I played the first I suddenly felt the need to even though Tales of Vesperia has been on my "want to play list" FOREVER.

I've had a hard to time warming up to Tales because I feel like I "should" be playing XIII-2 as a result of this self imposed deadline.
My first SRPG was FFTA. No idea why I didn't try them earlier. I don't really remember seeing any for sale. I think FFT WOTL was the first time FFT came to Europe. Could be wrong though. Had a lot of fun with FFTA although I remember wondering when I would finally get to walk around and explore.

Games featuring tactical battle systems are typically the easiest for me to "warm up" to for some reason. The more a game feels like playing chess to me, the more at home I feel right away! LoL

Likewise, turn based systems are also extremely "comfortable" to me.

And on an unrelated note, on the rare occasion a tactical battle system is paired with real walking/exploration (Growlanser) it is gaming bliss for me.
903  Media / Single-Player RPGs / Re: XIII-2 Levelling and Growth Confusion on: January 06, 2014, 05:52:19 AM
thanks for the help guys i figured it out what was going on.... i just sucked in battle and wasn't effectively setting up paradigms aside from trying to bum rush through the story. under-leveled and ill played you might say.

you can kill this topic now. thank you all for the hasty and helpful responses
904  Media / Single-Player RPGs / Re: XIII-2 Levelling and Growth Confusion on: January 05, 2014, 06:19:23 PM
I haven't played the game in ages but I remember switching between roles all the time. Focusing on just one seems like a bad call as certain battles call for certain strategies. SAB and SEN were really useful for me during boss fights. Didn't use SYN as much though.

Are you upgrading your monsters too? It really helps although you will eventually need to upgrade to new ones. You can also sacrifice the monsters to improve others but I never did this and was fine. I am guessing you mainly use MED and SEN monsters since you only leveled RAV and COM for Noel and Serah. I usually switched into MED to back up the MED monsters if they were struggling.

Sorry I wasn't much help. I am sure someone else will be able to answer your question properly.

I appreciate the guidance. I dropped some points on some other roles but with no real aim to be honest. I blindly spam leveled because I thought leveling was a pretty linear deal.

Maybe I'm just not using paradigms efficiently.

It feels like I am playing a game with a defense stat without buying or equipping new armor.

EDIT: also to clarify exactly where I am getting trounced... its the gogmagog palette swap boss in the Yaschas 10AF eclipse area. I can handle enemies fine it seems so I thought I was doing ok, but even when I switch the game to easy I can't even come close to beating him. I read somewhere that at this point some players could kill him in one stagger, whereas I could barely even get his health down a quarter way on the first stagger.

So I guess it also feels as though I am playing a game without buying or equipping new weapons as well. Although I have the best weapons chocolina offers ATM.

Between this and the fact that fetch quests drive my nuts on account of the fact that I have no clue where to look to fetch I feel so defeated.
905  Media / Single-Player RPGs / XIII-2 Levelling and Growth Confusion on: January 05, 2014, 05:51:37 PM
Ok guys, I need some serious help here.

I have not been able to really get anywhere in XIII-2 because I am clearly doing something wrong and at the point where I am getting my ass handed to me. In fact, I suspect based on how fast my characters get wiped out I am somehow missing or neglecting some mechanic entirely.

I am currently at chapter 3 Yaschas whatever (place with the eclipse) and have been pouring most all my crystarium points into COM for Noel and RAV for Serah. I did this because although I didn't really "get it" I thought choosing those roles to pour mostly everything into and keeping them primarily as those roles was a simple and sound strategy. Clearly it was not.

My monsters seem week as well. I don't know what I am doing wrong there....

I tried reading a bit from guides on the levelling system to better understand it and even they confuse they heck out of me.

Can anyone explain in a simplistic way how effectively level and progress in this game. I feel like I am going nowhere fast.

Any tips on how to survive battles would be helpful please don't be bashful with the advice guys. I really need it. I am having horrible flashbacks of 45 minute battles in XIII-1 because I screwed up the leveling in that somehow.
906  Media / Single-Player RPGs / Re: Lightning Returns: Final Fantasy XIII, The Last 13 Days on: January 05, 2014, 05:38:37 PM
For the love of god guys I tried... I read, reviewed and watched everything I could... I filled my brain with enough FFXIII info to write an incoherent sci-fi novel with religious overtones.

This is an effort best saved for Paradox games honestly. For the FFXIII games just look up game recaps and whatever information is directly relevant to your interests, because it's generally better to just go with the flow and not try to take the games that seriously. This could go for a LOT of works really, but for total story information that's better spent on something like Mass Effect, and for gameplay immersion borderline necessary for Paradox strategy games.

Well  my overindulgence did have one benefit, it took a narrative I "didn't get" and turned it into something very intriguing to me. In all honesty I haven't been this consumed with a narrative in a long time.

I'm gonna be the odd man out (in most cases) and say that I actually love the story and writing now that I have deciphered it.

What I don't love..... THE GAMEPLAY AND LEVELLING. In fact I think I need to make a thread about it.

907  The Rest / General Discussions / Re: What's the haps? on: January 05, 2014, 12:54:29 AM
High of -26F with windchill on monday, low of -39F after windchill. Don't wanna work from home again, but... -39F windchill?

And then I was looking at the weather for Bowling Green, Ohio, and they've got a low of -48F with wind chill on Tuesday I think. What the HELL?

Sans wind chill the temperatures are a... moderately more reasonable -15Fs, but still. Damnguangm.

Also I just watched Felidae. That was a thing.

I went running yesterday in a windchill of -5. About 5 miles after that poor decision I began to truly become concerned for my well-being. I am compulsive about my running and I have to go every day. I have for years. Days like yesterday really make me question my judgement...
908  Media / Game Journals / Re: Final RPGFantasy VI on: January 04, 2014, 11:03:05 PM
And there I go.... I'll be back folks... count on it!
909  Media / Single-Player RPGs / Re: Tales of PlayStation(s) revealed on: January 04, 2014, 06:11:43 PM
I just realized while posting in another thread and starting Vesperia this weekend something very unique about the Tales franchise for me.

They are truly a complete breather for me in terms of RPGs. My mind can be engrossed in them like other RPGs but they totally relax me in the same care-free manner of indulging anime or some other genre of gaming.

Typical RPG's tax my brain in a strategic sense and can really proof cognitively difficult to handle if over-done. I'm not saying Tales is void of strategic elements, but they are the only series I can think of that don't burn me out in that sense at all.

I know vesperia is a 360 title and thus not a thread appropriate title so forgive me.
910  Media / Single-Player RPGs / Re: Warming up to a new title on: January 04, 2014, 05:53:32 PM
That's also a nice little strategy to help combat "game burnout."  I remember doing topics about "game burnout" on the boards fairly often over the years just to get new perspectives on it.  Either switch up your gaming (I think this is why many RPG fans also love intense shooters, since those games act as some kind of psychological palate cleanser) or take a day or few to not play games at all and just do something else in that time frame; like learn a new recipe or do some exercise. 

I do that with my reading too.  I'm in the middle of the Mistborn trilogy and it is stellar.  But it's a lot and sometimes I need something to cleanse the palate.  So I read a comic or a "fluff" book (that I can finish in a day) so I get the palate cleansed AND a sense of accomplishment of having finished something so I can attack the epic I'm in the middle of with newfound vigor. 

Playing two RPGs is not something I can do; I prefer to have an RPG and something else, like a shooter or a rhythm game like Hatsune Miku Project Diva F, so it's not like I have two cumbersome, if awesome, epics weighing me down.

I agree, I usually play an RPG and something non-RPG.  Or at the very least, RPGs in two different subgenres.  Hatsune Miku was my most recent non-RPG too, for that matter!

This also goes for VNs.  I play a VN and something non-story heavy unless the VN is particularly action-y.

Usually I won't try two RPG's either but in this case its doable for me because its a Tales title and XIII-2. Quite simply the action-ee nature of the Tales battle system and the "easy to digest" nature of the Tales narratives balances out XIII-2 for me. That and I need a more typical fantasy land in my life complete with swords, magic, knights and castles.... Save the swords, everything else is absent from XIII-2

Quite simply. Tales = Fun Focus, XIII-2 = Serious focus (for me). This works.

Now this would NOT work for me if it were say, Xenosaga and Suikoden. The settings may balance out (I got my sword and sorcery) but I would get really inundated with all that turn based focus and serious and epic nature of both stories.

Xenosaga and Suikoden both require patience, focus, are serious and have completely assimilar gameplay. This is NOT doable for me. Likewise, Xenosaga and XIII-2 would not work for me either.

Also to do two RPGs I cut out other narrative focus from my life. No reading or even watching new anime. Instead I watch some Dragon Ball here and there or re-watch something I've seen already. In short two RPG's is only doable if they are the only narrative focus in my life....
To expand on one point, I become OBSESSED with wanting to know WHY I hate something once I do. I feel like it becomes an integral matter of discerning some uncovered aspect of my personality. Once identified I can often actually enjoy a title. This in particular is the KEY to geting past my "discomfort" with some games.

I think this is completely reasonable. If you're not reassessing your own tastes, your own reactions to art, how can you trust your own sensibilities? You can go by the "is game x pleasurable or not" approach, but there's always the possibility you like something because it's ADDICTIVE but not necessarily FUN, or maybe you find something non-pleasurable to play but it's just because you haven't gotten good enough at it for it to open up yet. Or are you just liking/disliking something because that's what the reviews said? And so on.

it's like a canary in a cocker spaniel -- with a name like Shmucker's, you know it goes to 11.

Being hyper critical of my perception, reaction and taste in art is something I have always felt to be completely integral to developing my own "eye" and capability as an artist. I suppose one could say I believe to be a good artist one must become an art critic inherently.

Well put, and a fine point good sir!
911  The Rest / General Discussions / Re: What's the haps? on: January 04, 2014, 05:36:03 PM

This reminds me of when I was trying to get a copy of Endless Ocean 2.

Store 1: They had the case, but no the disc for some reason.
Store 2: They had both but when I went back a week later it was gone.
Store 3: They had both but they put the wrong disc in the case.
Store 4: They had the disc but no case but Store 3 and 4 were both Gamestop so I got stuff all put together correctly eventually.

I have like three copies of Layer Section for similar reasons.

No cases are a huge problem for me... I used to travel around to all the game stores in my area to find a case if one of my games was without. Then I finally realized I had a decent enough quality printer (for my art) that was more then capable of doing the necessary printing to craft any case I need so long as I can procure the art for it.

Speaking of art....

... I LOVE doing portraits mainly because all the "work" is essentially done for you already. You just focus and recreate exactly what you see embellishing key contrasts to make it look a bit more aesthetic....


I HATE when I have to do a portrait of someone I've never met, with a wallet sized photo reference.... it causes my brain to hurt and ellipses to run amuk amidst my posts...

Anyhow, this was friday night for me.

tricky business
912  The Rest / General Discussions / Re: The NEW Game Journal on: January 04, 2014, 03:41:59 PM
After finishing Tales of Vesperia my friend and I needed a new game to play for when he visits. Our original plan was Tales of Xillia, but we ended up with Final Fantasy XIII. This one doesn't have a new game+ or something like that, so unlike the game before this one, we'll have to play it properly.

Our original goal was to just make fun of it, but this first session (we got all the way to the crystal lake) was a blast. It was the first time he played Final Fantasy XIII and he actually dislikes the series and this type of RPG in general, but he had a ton of praise for the battle system, soundtrack and cinematics. Of course we still made fun of it (ever noticed that on the cover, Lighting is one shadow away from a gigantic pantyshot?), but at this rate we may make it to the end actually enjoying and appreciating the game for what it is.

I loved XIII when I started it. By the end I hated it because I simply played it wrong. I evolved my characters so poorly fights lasted like 30-40 minutes by the end of the game. Aside from that I never really "got it" because I didn't read the datalog.

Now that I do get it, I fell really compelled to see the trilogy through which is why I totally want to get into/through XIII-2 in prep for 3 next month.

Oddly enough Vesperia has now been decided upon as my weekend game to help employ a strategy to keep FF fresh and not completely hurt my head with it.

On that note, I finally gave it a real shot and have confirmed my suspicions.... this is in fact a tales game and thus I will love it!! LoL

But what surprised me was how immediately drawn in to the title I was based on Yuri alone.

As dumb as this sounds, a physical resemblance to a character really helps immersion for me. Likewise, a personality similarity is an even greater help. Yuri has this in spades for me. I currently have long dark hair, and always wear dark clothes to evade ink and art "mess" being visible on my attire. As dumb and shallow as this all sounds it really is a major appeal for me.

At the very beginning in the inn an NPC mistakes Yuri for a girl. I got such a kick out of this, as the same exact thing happened earlier this week to me when I went to buy gloves at a medical supply place for work. LoL
913  Media / Single-Player RPGs / Re: Lightning Returns: Final Fantasy XIII, The Last 13 Days on: January 04, 2014, 03:27:06 PM
Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

(That's actually a horrible cliche that normally I dislike, but it seemed appropriate here...)

Seriously, Klyde, if you don't like the game then just don't play it.  Games are supposed to be fun.  Recreation.  Why do you do this to yourself?
As someone who recently forced his way through Last Rebellion because of the fact that it had been on his backlog for years, I think I can answer that. Some people simply have a compulsion to complete things, and once you have started something you cannot leave it unfinished. It is like a nagging feeling. If you ignore it, eventually it will weaken, but it never truly goes away! It is simply the way we are wired.

I could not have answered the question better myself. Thank you Ranadiel.

A few years ago I ended up in the hospital with horrible health issues. The few games I was playing at the time I dropped. Every time I turned em on after that I felt reminded of that hellish event. To this day those few irk me and that was years ago.... The "unfinished nagging" does not ever truly go away.

Funny you brought that up though.... I actually finished XIII-1 around that time. My discomfort with XIII-2 may actually be entirely a result of that. All the more reason to get through it and lay to rest a major personal hang up whilst reclaiming "comfort" from Final Fantasy.
914  Media / Single-Player RPGs / Re: Warming up to a new title on: January 04, 2014, 03:10:27 PM
Something similar happened to me with Breath of Fire: Dragon Quarter. I hated the game when I first tried it. It just felt to different from the previous games. Fast forward a few years and I end up loving the game once I gave it another chance.

Without a freaking doubt! 

When I first played Revelations: Persona on Playstation, I got bored with it after about 10 hours.  Months later, I had decided to trade it in for a copy of Star Ocean 2 when it came out.  That summer, I needed an RPG to play while waiting for Star Ocean so I revisited Persona... and the game completely opened up and I ADORED it!  It made me a Megami Tensei fanboy and I found myself extolling the Persona, and Megami Tensei, series to anyone willing to listen.  Bear in mind, this was back in the PlayStation era when Megami Tensei and Persona weren't popular like they are now.  I'm really glad I kept the game and stuck with the series, especially since Persona helped me a lot in my personal life.   http://www.rpgfan.com/news/2010/376.html

If something in my brain hadn't said "revisit Persona" I would probably not be the Dincrest I am today. 
I can say the same thing about music.  A lot of people weren't thrilled about Tool's "Lateralus" album (especially after Aenima), but once it grows on you, you realize that it's f'n brilliant!  When I first listened to the Kyuss album "And the Circus Leaves Town" I was meh on it, but I revisited it years later and now I think it's a phenomenal album. 


Revisiting at a later date with a different frame of mind really has shown me just how subjective my RPG experience can be. First time I played Earthbound I never even made it to threed. Years later it still plagued me that I gave it up and two summers ago I played it and beat it. Fell IN LOVE.

- I struggle with enjoying things because I'm goddamn nuts and force myself to hate everything because. To prove a point. I don't know. I want to say I have this contrarian drive, but that's not really... accurate. I'm just mood swingy in general?

- I complain about things because I want to be proven wrong. If I come into a game and I don't like it, I'll talk about everything I hate about it because I want SOMEONE to tell me, "oh, that starts making sense eventually" or "it gets better after X point."

- Usually if I don't like a game at the start it's because of annoying tutorial bits or exceedingly long narrative content at the start. Or if it's overly slow in giving you new mechanics, whatever.

You have once again summed up quirks of my own personality more appropriately and concisely than I could have. ^^ These points  in particular are without a doubt part of my (broken and defective) thinking and behavior that stretch well beyond game time for me...

To expand on one point, I become OBSESSED with wanting to know WHY I hate something once I do. I feel like it becomes an integral matter of discerning some uncovered aspect of my personality. Once identified I can often actually enjoy a title. This in particular is the KEY to geting past my "discomfort" with some games.

Kingdom Hearts titles also have this problem as well (mostly the Disney Worlds though, for acting out a C-grade version of their original plots... the games usually feature some sort of "half-time show", like how BBS had both Radiant Garden to intrigue players, and Disney Town to "entertain" them). 

KH 1.5 Final Mix was a hard fought warm-up for me due to the gameplay and platforming factors. Fast forward 5-6 hours into it with a host of abilities opened up and I was mega addicted. The difference with KH and most games though, while I ended up really enjoying myself with it, the lack of any narrative pay-off and complete distaste for the whole cast leaves me feeling pretty uninspired to play any more of the series even though I am well aware the gameplay gets much better.

Actually KH  is sort of the opposite of FFXIII-2 for me. XIII-2 is hard for me to warm up to for yet unidentified reasons that have more to do with me than the game and the pay off being completely narrative to me. I am so curious about the convoluted tale of lightning (whom I adore) that I am compelled to continue despite the rest of the games setting and "feel" being a total downer for me.

That is actually why I suspect I may really like XIII-2 by the end and XIII-3. Falling in love with just one character is usually enough to seal the deal for me and make any grueling aspect of a game worth it.

Edit: Also, I suppose I should admit the traditional, strict Atelier style was quite hard for me to get used to.  Rorona was easy enough, but when you go back to the stricter games like Elie, it's almost ridiculous.  But now that I've come to a realization of how they're intended to be played, they're very fun.

Atelier evolved my gaming mind. I used to hate crafting and whatnot until I played the Atelier games and Ar Tonelico. And while atelier could not relieve my distaste for time limits, I love becoming OCD about collecting and crafting now! LoL

Klydes warm up strategy

I've noticed that playing a different game on the weekend and having a routine with my gaming totally helps me overcome the warm up. Often now when I initially hate something for a week and get to something different on the weekend, I often feel compelled on monday to re-attack a title with a fresh perspective and even feel very eager to do so.

The key here is being disciplined enough to keep the routine because often what ends up happening is I get to the end of the week and don't want to put a game down. Then I get to the end of the weekend and don't want to put that game down.... When this occurs however I rarely feel compelled to ever drop either title and while the switch is jarring each weekend, I constantly stay inspired and hooked without feeling much of a title ever becomes "stale" or "chore-like".

I am employing this strategy now with FFXIII-2 and Tales of Vesperia.
915  Media / Single-Player RPGs / Warming up to a new title on: January 03, 2014, 08:44:01 PM
I had an epiphany today! Ok so not so much an epiphany as a realization that I probably should have noticed ages ago...

As some of you may have noticed, I have been severely struggling to appreciate Final FantasyXIII-2 as of late. I phrase it that way because I really like the character of Lighting, thus I want to be able to move on to XIII-3. On top of that, I actually find the story very intriguing after putting in the elbow work to comprehend it. Yet despite my excitement, each time I've gone to play it I have found myself very uncomfortable with the experience, as in it just has not scratched that "itch" or hooked me.

Now on to the point.

Upon reflection I realize that this happens occasionally to me. For a few days or a week I may completely dislike a new title I start, feeling as though I have totally made a bad choice, only to find myself totally wrapped up in it and really enjoying the experience in the end. I never realized or took note of this before as it seems only to happen when I play something a wee bit unconventional. That is, if I pop in a game and find it familiar territory I have no discomfort or apprehension about committing myself to move through it.

Case and point. Last spring I decided to try out P2 Innocent Sin. I started off being very dissatisfied with it. Two months later I had played through IS and EP back to back and discovered one of the most compelling casts and narratives I have ever come across.

So the question I pose is this. Does anyone else experience this "warm up" period for new titles, particularly those with gameplay or elements that are unfamiliar? How long do you typically give a game to hook you before deciding it is not worth the effort? Or am I the only one who experiences this phenomenon somewhat akin to a fear of commitment to a game I'm unsure about.

NOTE: I placed this in the single player board because I never typically have this problem with any other genre of games aside from JRPGS or multiplayer. Other genres (when I rarely play them)  are easily identifiable as hit or miss for me and multiplayer fun is automatic due to the social aspect.

Second NOTE: Thank you FlamingRift for posting about P2 IS earlier today and reminding me my experience with that title.

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