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RPGFan Community Quiz!
Subject: Persona 3: FES
Prize: $20 eShop, PSN or Steam code
Date: 3rd October 2014 Time: 16:00 EST
331689 Posts in 13580 Topics by 2191 Members
Latest Member: Zaltys
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16  Media / Single-Player RPGs / Re: Gust making a spiritual successor to Ar Tonelico: Ar no Surge on: February 02, 2014, 02:14:58 PM
I can at least say that ntny isn't deviating too much from one of Nagi's original designs for Shurelia: here's how she looks in one of her memories from the AT1 light novel, and here's how she will look in Ar nosurge, which from all the information that's been revealed so far, will take place in more or less the same time these memories are from.

And on other topic, here's the music box that the JP collector's edition includes. It plays a rendition of Ciel nosurge's opening theme "To the Songless Hill".
17  Media / Single-Player RPGs / Re: Gust making a spiritual successor to Ar Tonelico: Ar no Surge on: February 02, 2014, 02:36:47 AM
Well, Nagi isn't completely absent here: he was the designer for one of the Song Magic spells Ion is capable of using. It's this one: http://i3.minus.com/ibytK6HNusNubO.jpg Similarly, most of the Song Magic designs were given to different artists so they could do whatever they wanted with them. However, the character designer this time around is ntny, who also had this same role in Ciel nosurge and was the character modeller for Ar tonelico 3, as well as the world map modeller for both AT2 and AT3.
18  Media / Single-Player RPGs / Re: Gust making a spiritual successor to Ar Tonelico: Ar no Surge on: February 02, 2014, 02:03:41 AM
Very well. I'll try to keep my mouth (or fingers, in this case) from running off too much.
19  Media / Single-Player RPGs / Re: Gust making a spiritual successor to Ar Tonelico: Ar no Surge on: February 02, 2014, 01:47:41 AM
If being anal is trying to abide by what the creators of the game themselves wrote in the liner notes of the Hymmnos Concerts, then, yes, I am.

Plus, I don't see a reason to keep calling "Hymmnos" a completely new type of Song Magic developed in a civilization entirely different from that of the Ar tonelico games and that works under different principles when even the names of the albums have been changed to Genometric Concerts and when the Hymmnos language is not even being used in these songs. I mean, the Surge Concert languages don't have any resemblance to Hymmnos when it comes to writing, grammar, script or pronunciation.
20  Media / Single-Player RPGs / Re: Gust making a spiritual successor to Ar Tonelico: Ar no Surge on: February 02, 2014, 01:40:32 AM
The thing is that it's established terminology at this point, and it has been ever since Ar tonelico 2 was released. Even in Ar tonelico itself there are several kinds of Song Magic that can't be formally considered as Hymmnos because they aren't being processed by a Tower or Song Server to cause paranormal effects to happen: the songs sung by the Wills of the Planet, the song Spica sang through the Carillon Organito device, and the songs sung by the Moon Chanters and the Teru all fall in this category.
21  Media / Single-Player RPGs / Re: Gust making a spiritual successor to Ar Tonelico: Ar no Surge on: February 01, 2014, 09:04:32 PM
Not sure if these have been posted yet, but because my hype level is rising, I feel the need to share the snippets of music that have been released:

Green Lands remix.  Ar tonelico 1's map theme in Ar No Surge:

Two samples of the new hymnos.

From the new singer, ORIGA:

Haruka Shimotsuki's:

Yep, the first one was revealed before it became known that Sol Ciel would be a place the player would be able to visit in Ar nosurge, and once that was revealed, pretty much everyone has begun theorizing that it will be the world map theme for that area while Ra Ciela's own world map will have its own separate theme (and that's something I agree with).

However, in this case the songs aren't Hymmnos anymore: that word refers exclusively to songs that are processed by an Ar Ciel-based Song Server to execute a specific effect, as well as using the Hymmnos language. In Ciel and Ar nosurge, they are merely called Song Magic. Additionally, as they depend on different mechanisms (either a pact with a Genom or having a Ciel notron) and use different languages (Emotional Song Pact in the case of the former and REON-4213 in the case of the latter) from the Song Magic of Ar Ciel, they can't be really called Hymmnos here.
22  Media / Single-Player RPGs / Re: Gust making a spiritual successor to Ar Tonelico: Ar no Surge on: January 29, 2014, 05:17:04 PM
And this all goes to the fact that Gust (or better said, Tsuchiya) designed Ra Ciela's setting in a way different of that seen in Ar Ciel: in Ar Ciel, only Terus, Reyvateils and Moon Chanters could use magic (with the Reyvateils having access to the greatest power). However, in Ra Ciela, anyone can use magic as long as they have a pact with a Genom or have access to a functional Ciel notron, which is basically a device that emulates a Genom. And this is without mentioning the people that were modified to become "Doll-type Genoms", which can use magic without any outside support.

Similarly, Diving is possible in men and women alike, as Genometrics doesn't work in the same way as the Cosmospheres did in Ar tonelico setting-wise. However, I have to say that there won't be a song sung by a man in this game due to the artist line-up being already revealed and not including any male singers in it.
23  Media / Single-Player RPGs / Re: Gust making a spiritual successor to Ar Tonelico: Ar no Surge on: January 29, 2014, 10:35:53 AM
And on other news, inserting the crystals during the Purification ceremonies is also possible on the guys:


Or at least in Delta, as there's nothing said yet if it'll be possible on EARTHES.
24  Media / Single-Player RPGs / Re: Gust making a spiritual successor to Ar Tonelico: Ar no Surge on: January 28, 2014, 08:51:06 PM
Doesn't that order make no sense if Shurelia is in the game though?

Unless you hang around Ar Tonelico (the tower) you wouldn't encounter Shurelia who after her early childhood spent all her time as the tower's administrator (and going away from the tower is simply lethal for her)

The detail is that Cas and Delta get involved in an accident with a teleporter and end up in the Sol Ciel far in Ar tonelico's past. These are all the details Gust has given so far. However, there are other things that can be extrapolated if you have knowledge of the series' timeline and some of its backstory: Eolia (Shurelia) was born in 3031 AD, she was made administrator in 3035 AD, and she developed her love for bunnies in 3037 AD after she met Tilia. Considering her description in Famitsu, Dengeki and the official site states that she is both the administrator and a lover of bunnies, the possible timeframe for the period in which Cas and Delta appear is between 3037 and 3040 AD, the latter being the year in which the tower was sabotaged and the world pretty much destroyed (the Grathnode Inferia). And it also has to be before the catastrophe, as the room shown in the FMV where they meet Shurelia is where the Orgel of Origins (the power source for the Tower) is installed, and that place became inaccessible after that year because of the Sea of Death.
25  Media / Single-Player RPGs / Re: Gust making a spiritual successor to Ar Tonelico: Ar no Surge on: January 28, 2014, 08:18:33 PM
Yeah, actually. Ciel no Surge is a...non-standard game with an episodic structure that functions kind of like an odd visual novel, for a rather badly performing console. I would like it to come out, but I understand why it probably won't.

Ar no Surge, on the other hand, is a PS3 RPG that apparently has some direct connections to Ar Tonelico. It sounds pretty likely to me.

Unfortunately, I have to agree here. The episodic structure coupled with the social and online elements that factor so heavily in Ciel nosurge make it extremely improbable for it to ever get released outside Japan.

However, I have to also say that there's no "apparent" here with the connections between both series: Gust themselves have confirmed in Dengeki and Famitsu that both Ciel nosurge and Ar nosurge are directly connected to Ar tonelico with Shurelia's appearance in the game as well as the First Tower and the never-seen before region of Syestine, and they even have gone as far as saying that the story of Ar nosurge reveals important details on the memories Ion shows to the player in Ciel nosurge, and both become the entire basis upon which the story of the three Ar tonelico games is built. In fact, the Famitsu article explaining this stated that the story order goes: Ciel nosurge -> Ar nosurge -> Ar tonelico
26  Media / Single-Player RPGs / Re: Gust making a spiritual successor to Ar Tonelico: Ar no Surge on: January 27, 2014, 12:29:33 PM
I absolutely want the dress Ciel wears.

Her name is Ion (full name: Ionasal.kkll.Preciel).


The official opening has been put on Youtube.

And interestingly, Earth shows up for a second at one point, and maybe shows up once or twice otherwise. You can see Africa and South America clearly. I'm really curious what that's about.

Although it might be something dumb like we silenced our world.

It's because there's active contact with our world and dimension in both Ciel nosurge and here: the people of that world call their own world "Ciel", while they call ours "Earthes", as it can be seen in the BIOS-startup screen at the beginning of the opening video. And it happens to be that the robot is called "EARTHES" too, so the most commonly believed theory is that EARTHES is actually an avatar for the player due to being the terminal the player used to communicate with Ion in Ciel nosurge being remodeled by her into the robot we see here.

And there's a lot of things the English news outlets haven't said: Ciel nosurge and Ar nosurge are prequels to Ar tonelico, the pre-Grathnode Inferia First Tower of Ar tonelico is an area the players will be able to visit (and it'll include three pieces of remixed BGMs from the first Ar tonelico: Green Lands, AT Inside ~Anomaly~ and Ancient Memories) alongside the never-seen before regions of Syestine and the Forest of Shelanoir in Ar Ciel.

As for the combat system, it'll be based off AT2's but the players will fight all encounters that can appear in the map at once: all enemies will appear in waves, and the player will be given a turn limit. If the time ends, the player will be returned to the map and given rewards (EXP, DP, money, dropped items) depending on the amount and types of monsters they manage to kill, as well as them being discounted from the encounter gauge, but the clincher is this: if the player manages to kill all enemy waves before the turn limit runs out, aside of getting the rewards, the encounter gauge will get completely emptied upon returning to the map, so this is pretty much an improvement on the standard encounter gauge system of the Ar tonelico games. And I must add that Song Magic gains the ability to blast through all waves when the player has charged it for enough time if anyone believes that they'll be severely pressed for time during battle.

Finally, Gust put out a 11-minute long gameplay sampler video, and a Genometric Concert sampler video. They also have plans to put up a video showcasing the music box that will come as part of the game's JP collector's edition.
27  Media / Single-Player RPGs / Re: Gust making a spiritual successor to Ar Tonelico: Ar no Surge on: November 18, 2013, 03:20:52 PM
you have to pick specific parts of the body to talk to.


(note that this is not just a 'lol'. This is me posting my actual physical reaction to this, while avoiding to spam the letters "H" and "A" ad nauseum, for your viewing pleasure)

This just looks so wrong in my head.


And as funny as it is, it's indeed wrong. The original article in 4gamer and Dengeki states that the player can insert crystals in five specific points (head, torso, arms, abdomen and legs) on the heroine, but the heroine won't allow the player to do so until they had enough conversations and grew close enough to each other, similarly to how the Dive system worked in Ar tonelico. To put it simply, that translation in Gematsu is filled with errors.
28  Media / Single-Player RPGs / Re: Gust making a spiritual successor to Ar Tonelico: Ar no Surge on: November 18, 2013, 11:28:38 AM
Thanks for that.

That ~:48-59 or so. They intentionally used that familiar melody there and oh man, did it work.  Really, though, I am perfectly okay with half the song being a slight variation on Expressive Hill.
I must have this.

It's "Singing Hill", and it always been that. Expressive Hill is a mistranslation that steems from having interpreted the verb  謳う as "to express", while in Ar tonelico and Ciel Nosurge's context that same verb is always interpreted as "to sing". Likewise, the opening to Ciel Nosurge (of which this song is a new version), is called 詩無き丘へ, which translates to "To the Song-less Hill".

So CDJapan has an entry for the game which lists four "artists" for it, "MINASE INORI", "KAKUMA AI", "Akiko Shikata", and "Yoshino Nanjo". I think the first two are voice actors and the second two will be the singers. This saddens me slightly as none of them are Haruka Shimotsuki. Oh well I can still hold out some hope that she is the (inevitable) third singer.

Haruka Shimotsuki and Noriko Mitose have been already confirmed since last week when the newest characters and game systems were revealed in the most recent issue of Dengeki PlayStation. 4gamer's latest article for the game also echoes this. This was already a given, as since they were in Ciel Nosurge, it would make no sense to not bring them back for this game, especially considering that the character for who Mitose sang in Ciel Nosurge is also making a reappearance in this game.
29  Media / Single-Player RPGs / Re: Annoying Moments in otherwise Great Games on: March 19, 2013, 07:22:03 PM
Nope sorry, AT3 was terrible. Even the songs were weak compared to 1 or 2's. Also, after Croix, it was hard to go back to Lyner levels of idiocy again. Also also, only having the three vanguards for the entire game was incredibly boring, especially when there were so many other characters that could've jumped in as well.

Agreed with the bit on the number of vanguards. However, I disagree on the fact the game was terrible and even the songs were weak, considering that it had jewels on the levels of Singing Hill ~Harmonics TILIA~, Windstone, Arphage, Fusionsphere, Cosmoflips, Rebirthia Protocol, Hymmeli and all of the songs that play during the battle with the final boss, not to mention each of the four ending themes. Aside of that, while the first half of the plot seems to be a series of disconnected events, in the end all of them make sense and lead to the conclusion of the entire series, also bringing full-circle the worldbuilding the developers started with the first game.

One of the things I liked about AT 1 and 2 is that there was actual, interesting character development to go along with the fanservice (and even the fanservice wasn't nearly as blatent as AT3...).  The whole idea of diving into a character's mind and having them confront their deepest issues was seriously pretty cool.  But AT3 introduced all these sub-personalities and as a result it didn't really spend any time developing any of them.  They just come off as a bunch of 2D stereotypes.

Saki is the only character that really didn't have much development, which had to do with the fact that the developers wanted to make her as the only girl that was entirely pure in the franchise, which was to be a large point of contrast to Finnel's myriad of issues, not to mention that the girls in the previous game had so many psychological problems buried in their minds as well as flaws, that they thought it would be refreshing to have a girl that didn't have much of a dark side in her. I think it doesn't need to be said that it backfired.

No worry, I know most people think AT3 is bad and I can see why. I guess I can easily ignore those things that others couldn't.

In this point we both agree.
30  Media / Single-Player RPGs / Re: Annoying Moments in otherwise Great Games on: March 19, 2013, 02:59:18 PM
Ar Tonelico 3 - That part where you run after Saki for way too long.

That last one is like an entire story arc of running across multiple maps with random encounters and tons of unskippable in-game cutscene-ish discussions.
It lasts easily an hour and you are just running after her because she's being stupid. Ends up with her trying to suicide herself because she is so fucking stupid.
I am never doing a Saki game because that part of the game almost gave me ulcers and Saki is one of the worst character I've ever seen.

This one doesn't make a lick of sense, as the only character who actually attempts to commit suicide in that game is Finnel, and even then, that chase sequence doesn't last beyond a few minutes.
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