Show Posts

This section allows you to view all posts made by this member. Note that you can only see posts made in areas you currently have access to.

Messages - Grainofariver

Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 ... 7
BTW, is it really necessary for the final dungeon to be this epic 2h long labyrinth every time?
I wouldn't mind a more streamlined dungeon when I'm trying to push on and finish the game.

For me the problem lies less with the length and more with the design. Xillia and Xillia 2 both had very short final dungeons, to the point that it felt stupidly anti-climactic. Zestiria's final dungeon, it turns out, can be cleared in about 10-20 minutes with a holy bottle (which my co-op partner and I found out after being forced to do it THREE TIMES (I'd never had, nor have I since, had a PS4 game crash), but at least they got the look and sound right... Berseria's dungeon just doesn't have anything interesting or unique enough to justify the length. There's no puzzles, the environments feel over-sized, and there's only two variations to the visuals. By contrast Abyss and Vesperia had pretty lengthy final dungeons, but there was a lot of visual variety and a few puzzles to keep changing things up.

That is, ultimately a dungeon should be as long as its design and structure can remain interesting.

I don't dislike the hoverboard, although you get it far too late. I know the days of getting boats and airships which gradually open more of the map are long-gone, but I feel like, if implemented well, the hoverboard could fill that role. In theory it somewhat did by making travel quicker and opening new areas, but it felt a bit like an after-thought (not dissimilar to using the elemental abilities in Zestiria: that felt like such wasted potential).

The sad thing is, I might not have minded Velvet's outfit much if they'd approached the character with an 'I don't give a damn how I look' mentality. Instead she gets embarrassed when somebody draws attention to her attire... in literally the first town of the game. It's baffling that they would go out of their way to draw attention to this contradiction. Then again, I've never cared for Inomata's designs, so any further complaining would just feel like kicking a dead horse.

Sakuraba is an enigma. He composed Dark Souls, which presents one of my favourite final boss themes. He also composed Golden Sun/TLA: both boasting excellent soundtracks for the GBA. On the other hand, his work with titles like Tales and Star Ocean is all over the place. I rather enjoyed some of the Zestiria tracks (The Essence of Adventure Lies in Exploration is a pleasant little theme), but Tales of Graces has some of the most awful music I've heard from an officially published game (not only would I argue the standard boss theme is one of the worst battle themes ever, Sakuraba deserves some kind of lifetime achievement award for Lying in the Darkness). I'm not sure what to take away from his work: he has too many great tracks for me to write him off as a hack, but even a stopped clock is right twice a day.

I think people have been calling for a different composer for a long time: at least since 2012, when I started following the series. For better or worse, I can't ever see a Tales game without him. Legendia was done by a different team entirely, and aside from that he's been involved in every single game. Given the contradiction in quality between Tales and his other work, the question for me isn't so much 'how can we get rid of him' as much as 'does he even want to be there'.  Alas, I doubt we'll ever get a concrete answer. I'm more hopeful that we'll see a return of a co-composer. Funnily enough, I remember defending Sakuraba once (maybe on this very board), but have since found out that the majority of songs I liked weren't his.

My single biggest hope for the newest title is that they will finally work on the field/dungeon designs. They are spacious, empty, and lacking any kind of structure or design to make them feel like a real world. Four games in a row the exploration aspect has been a complete drag, which is a pretty big problem for an RPG. I can recall a lot of the locations in other games by their visual aesthetic and structure, but with Xillia/Xillia 2/Zestiria/Berseria everything that isn't a town just bleeds together into an open field of blah. If nothing else gets fixed or changed from Berseria except this one thing, I'll take it with gusto.

Single-Player RPGs / Re: Xenoblade Chronicles 2 (no not X)
« on: April 18, 2018, 10:34:29 PM »
You know what, I want to do something totally uncharacteristic here and make a point in defense of XC2's character designs. Don't get me wrong, I won't go so-far as to say I like them -- they're too exaggerated for me. Everything below the torso on Rex is too much, Homura's proportions are too much, etc., but there is something I do find very appealing to them, and that's the colours. I like when characters are designed with a thematic, identifiable colour: Rex's blue, Homura's red, Hikari's white, Nia's yellow, and so on. I feel it adds a lot of flavour to a cast: a visual distinction that makes each character stand out more.

I really noticed this preference with Tales of Xillia and its sequel. In the original game, each character is themed around a colour, and it makes the cast appear visually diverse and appealing. The sequel, on the other hand, uses a lot of black, white, and muted colours, resulting in designs that slip from my memory frequently. Whenever I think of a character from the Xillia games, my mind automatically jumps to the original designs.

It may be cartoonish and not particularly reflective of reality, but it's more important to me to have a strong visual understanding of a character versus something more realistic. Colour in general is something that attracted me to Xenoblade 2, and it's one aspect of the game that I will never fail to appreciate/champion. The designs themselves may not be great, but I'll have an easier time remembering the cast of XC2 over say, the cast of Dragon Age: Origins. Nothing against DA:O, but most of my memory of the game is a brown haze, and most of the cast is visually "that one guy/girl".

Single-Player RPGs / Re: Trails/Kiseki Thread! Trails of Whateva
« on: March 07, 2018, 04:08:34 PM »
[spoiler]I've had enough with "chosen one" plots, and that he not only has the whole super saiyan thing but also a giant stupid robot is just tiring. I feel Renne is the farthest we should have gone with the mecha side of the story, and by the end of CS1 there are sleek miniature Gundams all over the streets.[/spoiler]
[spoiler]As someone with 0 interest in Mecha, I agree.[/spoiler]

Oh my god, I just saw this in game, took a picture of it, and had to share it. Looks like posting images is out of the question, but I don't see anything about links in the rules, so:

I laugh more and more every time I look at it.

Single-Player RPGs / Re: Trails/Kiseki Thread! Trails of Whateva
« on: March 07, 2018, 03:45:21 PM »
Rean is a mixed bag for me. I like that he's a protagonist who actually acts like a leader. In most JRPGs the protagonist is the group leader because people look at him, recognise that he is the protagonist, and humbly bow before his glory. Rean at least starts taking charge, tries to problem solve, and generally maintains order within the group. His social standing also puts him in a good spot to mediate for everyone. His rise to the central figure of Class VII feels, to me, earned. On the other hand... (CS1 spoilers)

[spoiler]He's a super saiyan with a giant robot who constantly has girls (including his own adopted sister) fawning over him, but he's too dense to notice.[/spoiler]

I don't dislike Rean at all. Despite all the shonen-boy traits, they do enough with him to make him feel like his own character. Yet I feel I would like him better if they did a little more with (or used a few less of) the generic anime tropes.

Also, call me a hipster, but I actually find the 3D style they went with charming. When I turned the voices off because I didn't enjoy the dub, I discovered that it makes little beep sounds as text scrolls, akin to Dragon Quest. That feature, coupled with the visuals, made me feel very much like I was playing a PS2 game, but rather than find it dated, I found it extremely charming. Even now that I could theoretically grab the Japanese voices, just hearing voiced lines is so wrong to me. Sure the animations are rough (Cold Steel 2 touched them up a bit), but all-in-all I feel the PS2-era visuals have as much a charm to them as the older ones, albeit in a different way.

Single-Player RPGs / Re: Trails/Kiseki Thread! Trails of Whateva
« on: March 07, 2018, 03:24:41 AM »
Re-playing through Cold Steel again on PC, it strikes me as so strange the amount of... for lack of a better way of putting it, "anime", this arc has. Sometimes they subvert tropes in interesting ways (I like what they did with the school clubs/activities transferring into the second game), but others they just play dead straight. Sometimes I feel the plot has some really interesting things to say, but sometimes they're shamelessly playing off of low hanging fruit. I'm trying to avoid going into specifics because it seems some people haven't finished, but suffice to say that, while I adore both games, I do wish the writing was a bit more consistent. I wonder how much of it is trying to make Cold Steel more appealing to a newer audience, and how much is just their style.

Speaking of appealing to a newer audience, I think the best thing Cold Steel does is get into the meat of the game much, much quicker than Sky. It's no exaggeration when I say that every single person I know who plays RPGs has given Trails in the Sky a shot, and not a single one has managed to make it past the prologue. I bought it when it first launched on Steam, and while the first few hours were a bit of a drag, everything past them was excellent. I eagerly awaited SC and bought it right away, but thought I'd play through FC once more for a refresher... and 3 years later I still haven't been able to make it past the prologue. SC sits untouched in my library because even knowing the quality that awaits beyond FC's first 3-5 hours, I just have not been able to do it.

Yet despite having played both Cold Steels PS3, I'm beginning Chapter 5 on my PC run. I even managed to convince one (and only one) person to give Cold Steel a try, and lo', they really enjoy it. So no matter what one might say about the quality of Cold Steel relative to the other games, give it huge props for that. I continue to buy each release to support the future of the series, and I'm really hoping that I'll be able to ride the momentum of Cold Steel and finally be able to shove past the first few hours of Sky.

Also, while I really, REALLY want the Crossbell games before Cold Steel 3, I also really, REALLY want to see Rean as an adult...

Single-Player RPGs / Re: Top 10 Story-Driven RPGs
« on: February 27, 2018, 12:34:07 AM »
At a friend's house today I ended up trying out Mass Effect: Andromeda to see if it was really so bad as its reputation. Right away the game annoyed me by having a voice-over exposition dump.  "Oh my god," I moaned, "I don't care, can we just get to the characters already?". On reflection, I'm finding that the longer the gap between starting the game and meeting the characters, the more annoyed I get. World-building is all well-and-good, but generally it's in service to the characters. At least for me, I always experience a world relative to them -- they are the ones granting context to everything I learn about the world. Without them, it's all just facts and information. I don't care about the world-building for its own sake, I care about how it relates and affects the characters that I'm invested in.

To take Xenoblade 2 (as a positive example!), you hit new game, and then bam, you've got Rex. He's salvaging stuff. There's some banter between him and Gramps, a quick tutorial fight, and THEN you get the exposition speech. Thing is, now not only am I learning about the world at large, but in doing so I'm learning a lot about Rex as well. Rex becomes the centre-point -- i.e. the context -- for my understanding, because he's the one I'm invested in.

I'm certainly not going to turn-off or avoid a game over this, but the quicker you can get a character (preferably the player character) on screen, the stronger an initial impression you make.

Single-Player RPGs / Re: Xenoblade Chronicles 2 (no not X)
« on: February 26, 2018, 02:33:05 AM »
And this is why you need to learn how to form your own opinion and to know your own interests.
I generally do, but I also want to try new things to see if maybe I like them. I mean, I generally hate 3D Zelda, but I heard enough about BotW that I decided I might as well give it a shot -- turns out, I enjoy it quite a bit. I also tried PUBG, and despite it being the hottest thing in shooter-land and generally enjoying multiplayer shooters, I hated it. I don't regret taking a chance on Xenoblade 2. No matter what I say about the game, I definitely don't REGRET my time with it. Very, VERY few things push me that hard.
In that, said console generation was perhaps the single worst seen for the genre since the wild and woolly days of prior to the NES era.
I think I mentioned a while back wondering if that was the case. Last gen really was just not very good for JRPGs unless you're into the niche (among the already niche genre) stuff like NIS, Compile Hearts, or Gust. I had a friend who bought a PS3 recently to play Persona 5 (don't ask, I don't know), and I'll be damned if I couldn't think of an EXCLUSIVE to recommend aside from Demon's Souls. Everything's getting "enhanced" ports because the PS4 and Switch are selling like mad, making the whole last generation feel like a bit of an odd duck. I even get the strong sense that if I wait long enough there's a good shot Xenoblade Chronicles will just get a Switch port.

Single-Player RPGs / Re: Xenoblade Chronicles 2 (no not X)
« on: February 25, 2018, 10:42:13 PM »
Personally I'm just going to go into it without expectations. As I said, I went into 2 with huge expectations, and uh... it didn't live up to them. Expectation and hype are strange beasts: many-a-time I've found myself disappointed by a game that's failed to live up to the expectations I set. It's not uncommon for me to go back to these games and find I actually quite enjoy them once the burden of expectation has been lifted. That's not always the case, but in general I place more value on a second playthrough over the first. Something like Heavy Rain can be interesting the first time, but on repeat I find that I was more invested in the "what will happen next?" rather than any of the characters or plot. It's a big reason why I hold on to games rather than sell them. Re-playing Xenoblade 2 is the farthest thing on my mind, but the game wasn't so awful that I won't hold onto it on the off-chance that I wind-up someday giving it a second chance.

On the other hand, hype-culture is a large part of the video game world anymore. It's difficult to anticipate a game without being dragged into the hype-culture. Even niche JRPGs have their little circles where importers will hype a game to hell and back, getting fans in a tizzy looking forward to a masterpiece that even the best of games would be challenged to live up to. I remember a time when Xillia 2 was hyped by many importers (though there were detractors, don't get me wrong) to be the best Tales game yet. I recall when Trails of Cold Steel 2 was so freaking huge that you couldn't beat it in less than 100 hours. Needless to say, Xillia 2 became one of the most unnecessary Tales games ever, while How Long to Beat lists the average completion of Cold Steel 2 at less than the original (though this wasn't my experience). Even in this thread Xenoblade X has been called "one of the best RPGs I have ever played" (by Arvis) and "...definitely one of my favourites" (by [male pronoun]), and you yourself profess the original game to be "...easily one of the last great JRPGs that we got...". Is it any surprise that I went into Xenoblade 2 with such high expectations?

Now, I don't mean to point a finger at anybody for what boils down to my own failings. Heck, I'm happy when there's stuff to get excited for -- I will never forget 2012, when only one game got me excited all year. Even right now I'm finding that Radiant Historia is pleasantly living up to the reputation its earned. But I nonetheless wonder, how many players end up disappointed, frustrated, or otherwise turned away by something which was, ultimately, not the fault of the game itself? How many good games go unfinished not because of their quality, but because they failed to reach a bar they were never even aware of?

Single-Player RPGs / Re: Xenoblade Chronicles 2 (no not X)
« on: February 22, 2018, 06:48:50 PM »
He's perfectly entitled to his opinion, just as I'm entitled to mine. I wish I had a more serious post to offer on finishing the game, but for the most part I feel like I'd just be repeating myself. Instead, I had a little bit of fun... Actually a lot of fun. The criticisms are still there though, and I stand by them, just as I stand by every other criticism I leveled toward the game. I still ended up with 84 hours played, and considering I bailed on Star Ocean 5 after just 10 (a.k.a. the half-way point), it's not like I found the game utterly atrocious. Funnily enough, those three words do a pretty solid job summing up my feelings.

I do want to get to the original, but for now I've got to clear some stuff in my backlog. Unless Dragon Quest XI's release date ends up much closer that I'm thinking, it'll be a while yet before the next big thing comes along, so there's plenty of time.

Single-Player RPGs / Re: Top 10 Story-Driven RPGs
« on: February 22, 2018, 06:24:43 PM »
For sure! I was trying really hard to figure out how to make my comment without coming across as if I was shutting you down or devaluing the points you brought up. Hopefully I got there.

Single-Player RPGs / Re: Xenoblade Chronicles 2 (no not X)
« on: February 22, 2018, 01:09:53 AM »
Well, I just finished the game.
So, okay, you've got Space Pope, Jin/dickhead, and Rex-boy all blathering on that they're doing God's will. We can start spinning the sci-fi roulette, because we know that God will either be:
A) Human, and this will all be about the folly of man's lust for power/knowledge.
B) A giant bastard who will call us weak little nothings before we beat him into submission
C) There is no God/God is dead

I placed my bets on C because I thought it was the least stupid/most interesting option. So then Space Pope Freiza 3 dies, and we get a cutscene about inter-dimensional travel, because that's directly below time-travel in the list of things you should never-ever touch in your story. We arrive at Zanarkand Elysium, and surprise, it's actually a barren wasteland, but fortunately nobody has time to think it over too much because dickhead is going to explode everything.

Next we have a scene where Rex is tested by having all his party members accuse him of terrible things. In an ordinary JRPG, this would be the part where Rex goes, "No, you aren't my teammates -- they would never say such things!", or alternatively, "They might think that, but I know there's more to them than just this!". Instead he runs, cries, and accidentally murders Tora, Hana, Zeke, and Glasses. Due to his marvelous performance, he convinces the bajillion year-old man-god (yes, we landed on A) that humanity is totally cool now.

Rex promises man-god that he'll punch dickhead in the face, but of course that lasts about three seconds, because dickhead has a giant robot. You begin a fight that's so easy that you're instantly convinced there'll be a second form. He drops to two-thirds health, and then it's cutscene time! There's lots of screaming, Rex and Homukari are doing their thing, so this must be when his true form- nope, wait, the fight just resumed as per-usual, except all the orbs you put on him are now gone.


So you smack the robot until he can't take any more ouchies, and then Rex screams really super loud and blasts the crap out of the poor thing. Dickhead pops out, only he's kinda dying, so that whole salvager's code thing seems to have failed for about the bazillionth time. He explodes into the air having finally found his purpose in life, which is apparently to be an extremely generic and forgettable villain in a JRPG.

But oh no, the Ridley music is playing, and you know what that means! So while the space station is on a collision course to SR388,  Homukari decides that she's not a generic enough heroine yet, and deceives the party into escaping while she dies to save the world. Unfortunately the fantasy-land characters recognise escape-pods on sight, so she tricks an elementary-school-aged robot-girl into making sure that nobody can make it back. Rex tries to explain that this is the stupidest thing he's ever heard, but everyone tells him that he needs to man-up, because despite multiple conversations about how the blades would rather not survive without their drivers (and Jin's entire story arc), if he really loves Homukari, he should be totally cool about living the rest of his life without her.

Homukari then replaces Rex's iron-man heart with the regular human model, leaving him with a grey rock as a memento of their time together. Along with his original heart, he also managed to retrieve his original weapon, because I think the devs forgot that Nia is also a blade. The fantasy protagonists then pilot the space-pod out of the station, and the universe is so confused by this that it doesn't even incinerate them on entry into the atmosphere. The escape pod then explodes, allowing Gramps to turn into a dragon and save everybody, thereby totally justify his not dying back in the first chapter of the game.

Man-god's final gift to humanity is to make the cloud sea go away so that all the people can live on a massive Pangaea. Nevermind that the titans are an integral part to this new evolutionary cycle you've created, or that the warring nations probably won't be super stoked about being placed right next to each other. Omnipotence must have gotten sucked into the portal with the other half of him.

The credits then begin to roll as a montage of all the defining moments of Rex and Homukari's relationship plays out, except that it doesn't actually start until three minutes in, because they didn't have enough material to fit the full six minutes. Then the credits end, and everyone is happy except for Rex, because his super-real and believable relationship with cardboard and tsundere cardboard was all that matters to him- oh wait, they're back, and for no explicable reason, no longer share a body. Rex stares on, while the two chuckle at the look on his face when he thought they were going to die. Nia shoves him forward, and he takes a few tentative steps, his mind frantically trying to figure out the words to describe the sheer level of bullshit they just pulled. Something is mouthed, but what it was will never be known, for in a game where every character has sausage-fingers, nobody in their right mind would even attempt to hide an important message behind lip syncing.

Also if you were waiting for Vandham's thing about how you can put a blade into your body to use its mana to come to anything, or that Addam's appearance or identity might be integral to the story, or that any other of the game's myriad set-ups might have some payoff, then you can join me in feeling like a right fool for expecting that the game's writers not to have skipped that day in storytelling 101.

It was okay.

Single-Player RPGs / Re: Top 10 Story-Driven RPGs
« on: February 21, 2018, 09:02:31 PM »
My complicated answer would delve into the crux of what is it that makes a story "good" to us?  Events/event scripting?  Compelling characters/relationships?  Pacing?  Comedy?  Tragedy?  Philosophical bents? 

Is it a bombastic larger-than-life epic that compels us (e.g. Xenogears) or something more subtle and introspective (e.g. To The Moon) that moves us? 

Is it the storytelling that compels us more than the story?  After all, a good storyteller can make even a mundane story engaging, right? 

Even the concept of "writing" is pretty nebulous.  Take a look at Lost Odyssey.  The "Power Point" scenes were the most compelling because they were written by a novelist, whereas the majority of the game was JRPG cliches written by a JRPG scenario writer. 

I mean, to me the answer to all of these questions is that it's subjective, so the only answers that really matter are the ones you come up with yourself. Although some believe in objective art (I used to argue with my lit professor about this frequently), the fact remains that books are just ink and paper until our brain interprets the language. That interpretation is further informed by your personality and experiences, so that every reading is unique, even unto yourself. This extends into all forms of storytelling. When one considers that the function of art is to provoke an emotion reaction, isn't it impossible for me to say objectively what will resonate with you? Or rather, the you that exists in this moment?

The inverse is true as well. I know many people who enjoy Nier and Nier: Automata's stories, but for me they always end up falling apart because things feel too rushed. Character arcs feel forced because characters aren't given enough space for me to believably accept their changes. For instance, in Nier [spoiler]when Kaine seals herself behind the door, I found Emil's response disproportionately dramatic, given that the two had only just met, in game time, less than an hour ago. [/spoiler] Or in Automata, when [spoiler]A2 attempts to save Pascal's village. She goes from hating all robots to emotionally attached to the robot village inside of, no exaggeration, 15 minutes.[/spoiler] The end result is that, rather than feeling much emotion, I'm often extremely disconnected with the narrative. I know many people who think I am wrong; who believe that Yoko Taro is a genius and that his games really speak to them. I think that Taro needs to spend more time developing his characters.

Who is right? I think we all are, because what we seek in -- and how we resonate with -- stories is just inherently different. To me the important things are to keep an open mind to new experiences, constantly examine and re-examine your thoughts and understandings, and have faith in yourself and your tastes and preferences.

Also Pandora, I fear there might be a misunderstanding. I haven't actually played Setsuna or Sphear myself. What I'm saying is that both built their identity based off of Chrono Trigger, and the reception has made it clear that they've failed to attain that goal in a broad sense, as do most games that make the comparison. I also perfectly believe that AAA quality RPGs are not only capable in the modern age, but exist. Persona 5 became my favouritest games ever, and I'm waiting with baited breath for DQXI and Cold Steel 3. That's not to mention SMT5, which made me break down and buy a Switch even though I haven't really cared about Nintendo consoles since the Gamecube (I got a discount Wii after the launch of the Wii-U to play Mario Galaxy, and that's about it).

Heck, I wouldn't even mind trying Lost Sphear, but considering the price point and the backlog 2017 gave me, there's just no way.

Single-Player RPGs / Re: Top 10 Story-Driven RPGs
« on: February 21, 2018, 07:31:12 PM »
The thing I find depressing about the number of games like that advertise themselves as "like Chrono Trigger"

Oh, this caught my attention, do you have examples of games  that self proclaim as Chrono Trigger? Of course, if there are games not far from this level, I'd like to play them. Speaking of which, I've purchased Radiant Historia which may be a similar concept, even if distant in style.

I mean, the whole advertising campaign for "I Am Setsuna" was, "Look at us, we're making that Chrono Trigger game again!". That didn't work, so they tried again with Lost Sphear. It's really hard to get a good pin on the quality of either, because the developer/publisher created an insanely unreachable expectation. Lost Sphear seems to be better than Setsuna though, so perhaps if they keep it up they'll produce something quite good, regardless of its relativity to CT. There are also a couple of indie games that have tried to sell themselves as "inspired by CT", to varying degrees of quality. It's not that most try to bill themselves as "the next CT" so much as drawing the comparison in the first place is probably not the best of ideas.

In general I find the  attitude toward trying to create a "retro RPG" somewhat contradictory. You're trying to capture something from the past, yet the forward-thinking aspects of those games are a big part of what makes them so special. Most modern games that ape the retro style have you thinking, "this reminds me of CT/FF/DQ". Yet when playing CT, FF or DQ, you don't think, "This feels a lot like X". At least to me that represents a fundamental difference in approach, philosophy, and actualisation that leads me to conclude that if you set out to make "the next Chrono Trigger", you're pretty much doomed to fail. Chrono Cross at least did its own thing, and while you can debate its merits as a sequel, I think it at least succeeded in this respect. I'm probably one of the few people who is very happy that the Chrono series remains dead, because while I think it's already a borderline-impossible task to create a new game worthy of the legacy, modern Square-Enix is barely above Compile Heart/IF in terms of studios I believe would get it right.

I do want to make quick mention though that this refers solely to JRPGs. When I look at something like Divinity: OS, I feel like they're doing an excellent job of capturing the older style of an isometric CRPGs while doing enough new things to forge a unique identity. Still couldn't finish it because the animations and walking took forever, but it held my interest for 40 hours.

I've had Radiant Historia for the past few weeks, and I've been dying to dig into it because the somber atmosphere is just giving all sorts of amazing vibes. It's a game I really waffled on getting back when it first launched, so having the opportunity to play it now that I'm better versed in ATLUS is fantastic. I've been trying to get through Xenoblade 2 first, because with games that long you have to ride the momentum while you have it.

Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 ... 7