Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
December 19, 2014, 03:47:47 AM

Login with username, password and session length
Search:     Advanced search
Congratulations to Andrew Barker! RPGfan Editor of the Year and now Chief News Editor!
340915 Posts in 13933 Topics by 2222 Members
Latest Member: XanTehMan
* Home Help Search Login Register
+  RPGFan Message Boards
|-+  The Rest
| |-+  General Discussions
| | |-+  Rockstar Games - Gluttons for punishment
« previous next »
Pages: [1] 2 Print
Author Topic: Rockstar Games - Gluttons for punishment  (Read 5718 times)
Cauton
Posts: 655


Member
*

cauton42@hotmail.com
View Profile

Ignore
« on: August 30, 2006, 01:51:17 AM »

Their new game Bully is the subject of much hate before it even has been released.

You know, I don't like the GTA games much. I think they're deeply flawed and overrated. Despite this, I can't help really admiring Rockstar as a developer. Even after all the hoopla about Hot Coffee, they still go ahead and make Bully - a game they know would be heavly criticized based on subject matter alone.

To me, this is a showing of courage. They basically say "Fuck you, we're gonna make the games we think will be fun despite what your say" to all the games-are-corrupting-our-youth-and-destroying-the-society groups. In a time when many other publishers and developers cut down on voilence, or censor games, they think their vision of what their games should be as more important than age ratings and mainstream press reactions.

We need more developers like Rockstar. Companies that aren't willing to take risk becuase of what they believe in. I'm pretty sure that I won't like Bully much as a game (because none of Rockstar's games has ever appealed to me much), but I applaud its existance.
Logged
Hidoshi
RPGFan's Open Source Field Agent
Posts: 2901


Built This House

Member
*

clothothespinner@hotmail.com BrandingRune
View Profile WWW

Ignore
« Reply #1 on: August 30, 2006, 02:16:14 AM »

Of course, is it courage or is it industry belligerence? I'm not going to go and demonise Rockstar or anything, but I don't see these games as really pushing anything beyond violence. If we follow the argument that videogames are escapism, why bring them so close to reality? And if we follow the argument that the games are 'well written' or to that effect, so are a lot of other games, so that really doesn't matter. Games like this do 'push' an envelope on censorship, yet for me they do nothing in terms of being creative. (Edit note: Eusis brought up a good point in IRC, being that the original GTA3 did give us /humongous/ freedom, but I'm more referring to their post-GTA3 releases here)

Let's take for instance KOTOR, or a similar game. It allows you a huge universe, tons of exploration, good story(ies), and also a huge amount of freedom. The same applies to many MMORPGs, to games like Oblivion, etc, all without pushing anyone's buttons. Yet they won't be celebrated by the press because the developer has decided it doesn't need to wear its dick on its sleeve. In other words, it doesn't feel the need to be a rebel without a cause.

Rockstar -- and similar developers pushing the same agenda -- tend towards being that: Rebels without a cause. Did they start that way? No. The media has involved them to the point that they've become that though. As such, they don't deserve any credit for being 'courageous', because it really is just belligerence. Is Bully a good game? Maybe. But that's not the real issue. You can get a perfectly good (and similar) game in a different setting, even with the same amount of violence.

Let's face it, Rockstar is out to piss off the censors now. While one might say censorship is a form of childishness, and that certain advocates of the censor are indeed complete fanatics, the same can be said for people on the Rockstar side of the fence. Rockstar's out to appeal to a demographic that's come up in its favour. It's the same demographic that a couple of generations ago turned to punk rock and buying merchandise with the Anarchy symbol splattered all over it. In other words, wannabe rebels.

Now it can be argued that because the game is 'made for adults', and because other forms of media are rated "R", Rockstar has every right to submit this sort of media. But let's be realistic. The system as it is right now still allows for a massive trickle down to the audience that shouldn't be exposed to this. What's more, it's interactive. Where a movie puts a nice big screen between you and the action, a game lets you get a cable in on that action. There's where video games find their difference from other media, and why it's not as easy to keep the kids out.

In one way, the developer might be doing a good thing: Forcing the system to tighten up. But this is the age of the internet. Does anyone honestly believe the "R" rating keeps kids out of jack or shit anymore? Your typical 12 year old can now surf for porn with relative ease. It's not a far cry for them to go and find a downloadable torrent of an "M" rated PC game, or in more endeavouring cases, burn a CD/DVD of an ISO and stick it in their modded system.

That of course brings up the issue of Net Neutrality, but that's a conversation for another time.

Sorry, but 'the man' isn't holding anyone down. He's just asking you to beat up Darth Vader instead of little kids on the playground.
Logged
Leo
Posts: 1064

Member
*


View Profile

Ignore
« Reply #2 on: August 30, 2006, 03:30:55 AM »

You could look at it like that, but I've never thought Rockstar's games amounted to much. I rarely play video games that mirror reality. At least not extensively. I'd probably play them for an hour, at most, before boredom strikes. I agree, though, that they are rubbing this game right in the censors' faces.

Also, Rockstar games kind of remind me of these similar CG kids movies that come out every few months, such as Chicken Little, Toy Story, The Incredibles, Cars, and so on. In respect to their animation quality. While the theme is different, their production is the same.
Logged
Dincrest
Spectrum
RPGFan Editor
Posts: 12079


Stumpy McGunder- thumps

Member
*


View Profile WWW
« Reply #3 on: August 30, 2006, 09:58:43 AM »

I think the Fear Effect games more exemplify the positive spin Hidoshi puts on it.  The creators of Fear Effect didn't want to compromise their vision and accepted the M rating that Fear Effect 2 received even though they knew it would mean less sales than if they had watered it down to a T rating.  

But for what its worth, Rockstar is positioning themselves as the birdie-flipping, rebel, bad boy game developer, people like that, and the publicity always translates into sales.
Logged

Next bike-a-thon: Diabetes Tour-de-Cure 2015
Professor Gast
Posts: 1647


Member
*


View Profile

Ignore
« Reply #4 on: August 30, 2006, 12:19:00 PM »

As long as Rockstar's games, in particular the Grand Theft Auto franchise keep selling, they won't stop making these games. Sadly all that criticism focusing on yet another Rockstar title won't make society shun those games and turn the world into a better place. Why does Rockstar keep making those games? Well, because they sell. And why do they sell? Because an awful lot of people apparently want to play such violent games. The problem here is that it is way easier to go after the game industry or an individual company like Rockstar than try and come up with solutions ensuring people don't feel the urge to play those games anymore. Of course, I know this would be insanely hard to accomplish, but I guess politicans are just trying to go down the easiest road here and thereby end up fighting the symptons, but not the cause of the problem. Personally, I don't play their games, but I guess from an economic point of view, Rockstar is a very smart and successful development company.
Logged
John
Administrator
Posts: 7312


Member
*

DeceptiJohn
View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #5 on: August 30, 2006, 12:32:13 PM »

Based on what I read about Bully in the latest GI - it's going to be far, far less violent than the GTA titles.  Still, because the concept of the game is so close to what's seen in reality, there's far more people complaining.  Look at God of War.  Top-tier title that sold incredibly well.  Ultra-violent.  No one cared, because it was a fantasy-styled world.
Logged

THROW PICKLE IN BURGER TO SPEED UP COMMERCIAL
Eusis
Administrator
Posts: 11824


Member
*


View Profile
« Reply #6 on: August 30, 2006, 12:38:10 PM »

Though given the reaction here, I have to wonder if everyone that's complaining is also thinking that it'll be some over the top, violent game. I'm sure there's some that're upset at the concept of bullying and are afraid of this game's effects on it, but quite a few are probably genuinely expecting GTA-in-school.

I was doubting it'd be that violent after seeing the trailer and figuring it to be a lot of worrying over nothing, but I guess we'll see if there's anything to really be concerned about.
Logged
MonCapitan2002
Posts: 247


Member
*


View Profile

Ignore
« Reply #7 on: September 01, 2006, 11:19:57 AM »

Quote from: "KeeperX"
Based on what I read about Bully in the latest GI - it's going to be far, far less violent than the GTA titles.  Still, because the concept of the game is so close to what's seen in reality, there's far more people complaining.  Look at God of War.  Top-tier title that sold incredibly well.  Ultra-violent.  No one cared, because it was a fantasy-styled world.

I would have to echo the sentiment about God of War.  While I acknowledge that the game is extremely violent, I am not bothered by its content due to the game setting being a fantasy world.  The GTA games take place in a more realistic setting and that is why I object to playing them.  I have no problem if others want to play them.  Just don't ask me to play.
Logged

Eusis
Administrator
Posts: 11824


Member
*


View Profile
« Reply #8 on: September 01, 2006, 10:12:21 PM »

1up preview of Bully

Definitely worth checking out if you're curious of just how controversial it will be.
Logged
Dios GX
Banninated
Posts: 892

Member
*

dios@hidoshi.com GSaviourPrime
View Profile

Ignore
« Reply #9 on: September 01, 2006, 10:46:14 PM »

Quote from: "Dincrest"
I think the Fear Effect games more exemplify the positive spin Hidoshi puts on it.  The creators of Fear Effect didn't want to compromise their vision and accepted the M rating that Fear Effect 2 received even though they knew it would mean less sales than if they had watered it down to a T rating.  


The only negative press Retro Helix needed was the fact it's fucking impossible to play. On that note, I find most of Rockstar's games gameplay wise to  be unplayable, or if not that, boring and shallow.

As an example, take away textures or object forms. Replace everything with boxes of varying colors, what do you have? In this simplistic, somewhat unfair manner is how I rate gameplay. Boil it down to a generic basic level and look at what you have without the premise, and you have what the core of the game itself really is.

And in GTA's case, it's crap.
Logged
Cauton
Posts: 655


Member
*

cauton42@hotmail.com
View Profile

Ignore
« Reply #10 on: September 03, 2006, 08:43:22 AM »

So am I really the only one who think that it's important that someone has the guts to go against censors and public opinion, regardless of what their motive is? I don't care what reason Rockstar had for developing Bully, but the fact of the matter is that they know the subject would raise a lot hell. If the game is a success (which it probably will be, thanks to Rockstar's name alone), then it will show other developers what you don't have to politically correct all the time, or that you have to cave under whenever some loudmouthed group of soccer moms questions your game's raison d'être.
Logged
Azrael
Posts: 1101


Member
*


View Profile

Ignore
« Reply #11 on: September 03, 2006, 09:24:35 AM »

I don't buy that.  If you're going to go against anyone...you need to have a pretty damn good reason if you want my support.  And in my opinion, this is where I think it gets out of hand.  It seems like Rockstar is at the point now where they are making games bad for the sake of being bad.  I don't much care for that.  Especially since now they aren't even that fun to me anymore.
Logged
Ashton
Contributing Editor
Posts: 5101


Lawful Asshole

Member
*


View Profile WWW

Ignore
« Reply #12 on: September 03, 2006, 10:11:21 AM »

Rockstar isn't 'going against' anyone. They're making games that sell. It's called Capitalism. Anyone who complains can cry about it.
Logged

Jimmy
Posts: 1074


Wakens the Ferine Strain

Member
*


View Profile

Ignore
« Reply #13 on: September 03, 2006, 12:37:31 PM »

Quote from: "Cauton"
So am I really the only one who think that it's important that someone has the guts to go against censors and public opinion, regardless of what their motive is? I don't care what reason Rockstar had for developing Bully, but the fact of the matter is that they know the subject would raise a lot hell. If the game is a success (which it probably will be, thanks to Rockstar's name alone), then it will show other developers what you don't have to politically correct all the time, or that you have to cave under whenever some loudmouthed group of soccer moms questions your game's raison d'être.

Plenty of games do that. You play RPGs, you should be able to pick up on common plot nuances about religion which many of them have. If I were a fundamentalist Christian commentator (thank god I'm not) and I were playing The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker, I would be furious when Ganondorf says, "You're gods betrayed you!" And don't even get me started on Breath of Fire II, or Final Fantasy X for that matter. The developers of these games did it more discreetly than Rockstar and made better games to boot!

When I think of Rockstar's games I think of someone who walks down the street naked because they can, but when it all comes down to it no one really wants to see them naked.
Logged
Cauton
Posts: 655


Member
*

cauton42@hotmail.com
View Profile

Ignore
« Reply #14 on: September 03, 2006, 01:00:47 PM »

But see, RPGs is still a niché genre (outside of Final Fantasy). What will happen when some nutjob gets a hold of a copy of any Megami Tensei game and make a huge fuss over how Gods/Demons/Religion is depicted in them?

When that happens, I think it's important that there has been a forerunner. A company that shows everyone that just because some loudhmouths are yelling and screaming, demanding your game to be banned, you don't have to give in to them.

I'm not commenting on the quality of the games themselves here, or how they handle their messege or story. I just think it's important that someone openly defies these "watchdog groups" and/or attention hungry politicans. Because otherwise we will, in the end, be left with games (or music, or books, etc) that are so watered down in an attempt to not be objectionable to anyone, that they will have lost all reason for existance.

Or maybe I'm exaggerating. But I don't think so. I consider the freedom of choice and expression to be paramout to everything else.
Logged
Pages: [1] 2 Print 
« previous next »
Jump to:  



Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.20 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!