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Subject: Persona 3: FES
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Date: 3rd October 2014 Time: 16:00 EST
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Aeolus
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« Reply #555 on: August 27, 2013, 08:03:50 PM »

Ah Frederick, the game's Oifey.

He's pretty much the most pivotal character on Lunatic and above as enemies are generally speaking starting out at a level roughly between him and Chrom. And between his starting Silver Lance, his ability to support either Chrom and/or the Avatar, and learning Luna quicker than anyone else, he's pretty good at maintaining his crutch character status for a good while. Unfortunately, his bases are low for a promoted unit and his growth rates can only be considered good in earlier games like the latter GBA games and so on. In Awakening though, his growths are just not enough to really keep up with the rest of the team during the main game. Granted there's an ample supply of stat boosters ready to catch him up to the party, but one can argue that the same resources would be better used if distributed amongst the many characters who are doing fairly well and only need a small boost versus having to dump it all on one character. At least, if you do use him, his reclass options are fairly good with access to both Paladin and General for the two defensive skills Aegis and Pavise, Wvyern Lord's and Griffin Knight's Sword/Lancebreaker skills plus Hot Start and Carrier are not too shabby either, and his starting class's Luna and Support Defend+

As a potential father, his classes are quite the asset for those in need of Strength & Defense heavy classes, even if they won't get the full 9 extra classes due to the Cavalier and Knight class trees sharing Great Knight. Plus his personal caps are fairly stacked towards Strength, Skill, and Defense over Magic and Speed thus furthering his contributions to those areas. Ideally, he'll want to get with Olivia to give Inigo a solid boost to his offensive stats which he needs for all his other physical classes, plus there's no one who can pass on a full 9 classes to him anyways, so Inigo gets the best of both worlds. His second best choice is with Lissa to help out Owain in a similar manner to Inigo, although Owain might be more interested in raising his generous Magic inheritance rather than leveling himself out. Meanwhile Laurent and Brady have more interests in pursuing magical based classes and stat modifiers than fixing their physical stats, and Gerome and Yarne are already well off in physical stats and don't need the fix as much as Inigo and Owain do. The fact that Frederick can sire Cynthia at all is a good argument for pairing him up if both Lissa and Olivia get paired up. Though Severa probably doesn't want to take that Magic hit if she wants to make use of her Dark Mage class tree. Noire probably wants Gaius or Donnel first to offer up Galeforce to her and he really doesn't help her that much anyways. Nah has little use for Frederick since she can get a better inheritance off of Kellam without having to take the reclass hit from Frederick. And Kjelle has absolutely no use for him since she'll inherit nothing but his modifiers.

Overall, he's solid for the beginning of the game and as a physically oriented father, but as the game wears on he's definitely going to fall behind, especially in Hard Mode or below where there's less of an imperative to use him over other units. At least with the plentiful resources, he can be made usable again during the post game or with heavy favoritism (and maybe the renown rewards/DLC loot).
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« Reply #556 on: August 27, 2013, 08:28:36 PM »

So I've been playing a ton of FE:A and I'm really looking forward to talking about it on the podcast.  I think this game's difficulty is an important point of discussion because I don't quite see the point in the harder difficulty modes.  I played on Normal Classic until around chapter 9 and found the game way too easy.  Hard Classic was quite challenging.... until I opened up the DLC and could grind for hours.  After a few quick DLC maps, my guys were tanking and killing just like my crew on Normal, only they were substantially higher level.  So now my question is, why should I keep playing on Hard?  It will certainly take me longer, but I'm going to get the same result either way.  I guess most strategy games are easily broken and grinding usually makes any RPG easier, but here it just feels like busywork on the harder modes.  Not looking for a fight or anything (I like the game quite a bit), but it just doesn't feel balanced in a way.  To be fair, FF Tactics had a similar problem in that a little grinding made the main quest missions easy as hell.  Just looking for some friendly discussion here. 
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« Reply #557 on: August 28, 2013, 12:56:09 AM »

Fire Emblem: Awakening isn't balanced very well IMO. The balancing on the extra missions is really bad going from way too hard to piece of cake, add the fact that you get access to some of the later ones earlier on makes the whole thing out of whack. In general, I prefer the way most Fire Emblem games play where there is only a story mode and no effective option to grind. Having to strategically plan who gets experience and when, along side your regularly scheduled battle strategy is really fun. The challenge is way more balanced when things are restricted.

Not to harp on the changed made to Awakening, but Awakening has much higher growth rates and characters can be leveled infinitely into perfect stats, so it is really easy to get broken characters. Not that this is the only FE to do that (anyone can hit stat caps in Thracia 776) in other FEs you might drop a character because their levels are bad, which makes the ones that are end-game monsters, because you will have some, that much more satisfying. Then again, the end of every FE game you just use your end-game monster units and they won't die unless you make an awful mistake, so I'm probably talking out of my ass.

To be fair, I like the ability to grind for levels, cash or items if the someone is finding things too hard. I avoid grinding whenever possible, but I wanted to get Donnel and a few of the later characters up to snuff, so it is handy. Why did you grind in the first place?

Basically what I'm saying is that if you like FE:A at some point try one of the older ones, their systems are less friendly, but make for a better game overall. FE:9 is good and doesn't feel archaic, while I like most of the games the older games show their age. FE:4 is my favourite.
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« Reply #558 on: August 28, 2013, 01:35:04 AM »

I started grinding on Normal because I found the combat a hell of a lot of fun, so it just kinda happened by accident.  I found grinding necessary on Hard, however.  The first couple of story battles are brutal, and my avatar was taking far too much experience when compared to the rest of the group.  Grinding allowed me to level everything out, but now my party is way too strong.  I could probably blow through three or four story missions right now. 

Keep in mind I'm not complaining about the game giving me the option to grind a bit.  I remember getting extremely pissed off when my first run of XCOM hit a critical "sink or swim" moment about seven hours in.  I nearly restarted all of my progress because I was completely screwed, but I got lucky on a couple of maps and made a comeback.  I would have probably put the game back on the shelf if I didn't have that success, however.  These permadeath games have to walk a fine line in order to maintain a challenge while still allowing people to complete them.  I'm sure many fans love the idea of ending up completely screwed, but, as a newlywed and full time school teacher, it holds little appeal for me.  I just wonder why someone would choose Hard over Normal for FE:A.  Maybe these types of players refuse to grind, which I guess is fun in its own way.  I love how this game gives you tons of options on how to play it.  You can grind if you want to or smash your head against a wall over and over again.

Here's another tricky question; everyone talks about the awesome permadeath feature, and yet I read over and over again about people replaying maps to get it right and keep everyone alive.  Isn't the point of permadeath to deal with your mistakes and keep going?  I lost Sully early in my normal mode on a dumb play (which made the later parts of the game VERY interesting) and thought about replaying the map.  I chose to keep playing because I felt it was in the spirit of the permadeath and it was my own damn fault she ended up dead (unlike the terribly dumb death one of my snipers suffered in XCOM).  I lost Lon'que (sp?) on my hard playthrough because of another stupid move and kept trucking.  I just wonder why people make a big deal of permadeath if they aren't willing to keep going.  Why keep permadeath on if you just plan on replaying the map if you lose even one unit? 

Oh, and my only real complaint is one that Stephen mentioned earlier in the thread.  I can't stand dying because seven dudes keep rolling up into the same space, causing two or three damage, and then my character kills them, allowing another to take their place.  I refuse to accept that kind of death, because the game isn't giving me an option to not attack.  They really need an option to skip a counter if the AI is designed in such a way to attack the same character over and over again without any regards for self preservation.  I'm not fighting the borg (okay, the risen kind of count), I'm fighting human beings that run at me like freakin' lemmings! 
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« Reply #559 on: August 28, 2013, 02:21:52 AM »

I started grinding on Normal because I found the combat a hell of a lot of fun, so it just kinda happened by accident.  I found grinding necessary on Hard, however.  The first couple of story battles are brutal, and my avatar was taking far too much experience when compared to the rest of the group.  Grinding allowed me to level everything out, but now my party is way too strong.  I could probably blow through three or four story missions right now. 

Keep in mind I'm not complaining about the game giving me the option to grind a bit.  I remember getting extremely pissed off when my first run of XCOM hit a critical "sink or swim" moment about seven hours in.  I nearly restarted all of my progress because I was completely screwed, but I got lucky on a couple of maps and made a comeback.  I would have probably put the game back on the shelf if I didn't have that success, however.  These permadeath games have to walk a fine line in order to maintain a challenge while still allowing people to complete them.  I'm sure many fans love the idea of ending up completely screwed, but, as a newlywed and full time school teacher, it holds little appeal for me.  I just wonder why someone would choose Hard over Normal for FE:A.  Maybe these types of players refuse to grind, which I guess is fun in its own way.  I love how this game gives you tons of options on how to play it.  You can grind if you want to or smash your head against a wall over and over again.

Fair enough, I had to ask because I've run into a lot of people who will deliberately overlevel and complain that the game is too easy. If it is accidental, sure, or if you don't care too much about the challenge personally, go ahead. If they play for challenge though, that complaint baffles me to no end. As it stands I've never ended up being so screwed I've had to restart the whole game, maybe I can thank all the resetting I do! For the record, I played on hard as it was challenging without being frustrating. Fire Emblem is kind of a simple game so I've never not played on hard given the option, but I'm not good enough to play Lunatic as I make too many errors, too often.

Quote
Here's another tricky question; everyone talks about the awesome permadeath feature, and yet I read over and over again about people replaying maps to get it right and keep everyone alive.  Isn't the point of permadeath to deal with your mistakes and keep going?  I lost Sully early in my normal mode on a dumb play (which made the later parts of the game VERY interesting) and thought about replaying the map.  I chose to keep playing because I felt it was in the spirit of the permadeath and it was my own damn fault she ended up dead (unlike the terribly dumb death one of my snipers suffered in XCOM).  I lost Lon'que (sp?) on my hard playthrough because of another stupid move and kept trucking.  I just wonder why people make a big deal of permadeath if they aren't willing to keep going.  Why keep permadeath on if you just plan on replaying the map if you lose even one unit?

I think I can answer this. I have a very complex relationship with the permadeath since I will accept some deaths, but not others. Restarting the battles is just a way to make yourself better at the game. Play it again and again until you make the least mistakes. When  something is on the line weighing the risk-reward is much more interesting. Fire Emblem (usually) gives you all of the information you need on screen or ahead of time, so when you lose someone it's your fault and if I haven't made too much progress I reset and try again with modified tactics. I have played one Fire Emblem on Casual and that was 12 and it resulted in losing 4 or 5 characters a mission, but I would complete the mission super fast and there was no risk. IMO not letting character die really drains the sense of investment.
Whenever I felt that "no man left behind" is no longer a worthy investment or if I made a catastrophic error I let the characters die for good. Just so you know my body count I lost: Kellam, Lon'qu, Lissa, Sully, Anna, Gaius, Sumia and a few others over the course of my game when I judged that losing my progress on those characters was more acceptable than restarting the mission. The hardest was Kelllam because I just liked the guy so much.

Quote
Oh, and my only real complaint is one that Stephen mentioned earlier in the thread.  I can't stand dying because seven dudes keep rolling up into the same space, causing two or three damage, and then my character kills them, allowing another to take their place.  I refuse to accept that kind of death, because the game isn't giving me an option to not attack.  They really need an option to skip a counter if the AI is designed in such a way to attack the same character over and over again without any regards for self preservation.  I'm not fighting the borg (okay, the risen kind of count), I'm fighting human beings that run at me like freakin' lemmings! 
This is what I meant by FE is kind of an easy game though. The AI is really simple and most of the strategy is creating the conditions to fight on your own terms. I'm sure you know that alerady, but it's the best wisdom I can give you. Dying like that sucks; that's how Kellam died.
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Aeolus
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« Reply #560 on: August 28, 2013, 04:29:07 AM »

So I've been playing a ton of FE:A and I'm really looking forward to talking about it on the podcast.  I think this game's difficulty is an important point of discussion because I don't quite see the point in the harder difficulty modes.  I played on Normal Classic until around chapter 9 and found the game way too easy.  Hard Classic was quite challenging.... until I opened up the DLC and could grind for hours.  After a few quick DLC maps, my guys were tanking and killing just like my crew on Normal, only they were substantially higher level.  So now my question is, why should I keep playing on Hard?  It will certainly take me longer, but I'm going to get the same result either way.  I guess most strategy games are easily broken and grinding usually makes any RPG easier, but here it just feels like busywork on the harder modes.  Not looking for a fight or anything (I like the game quite a bit), but it just doesn't feel balanced in a way.  To be fair, FF Tactics had a similar problem in that a little grinding made the main quest missions easy as hell.  Just looking for some friendly discussion here. 

Yeah, the problem with Awakening's difficulty is probably a result of Int Sys trying to make the game more user friendly for people who aren't big fans of the SRPG genre. The DLC is probably the biggest game-changer since you gain access to it so early into the game (right after chapter 3 to be specific) but other things like the Paralogues, Skills, Reclassing, Supports, the Pair-Up mechanic, 2nd Gen Characters, buyable temporary stat boosters, forging weapons, the Barracks, Event Tiles, carried over Renown, random encounters, and Anna merchants really alters the balance as well.

In the game's Normal mode, the game has no specific counter to any of this, enemies are set primarily at the same difficulty curve as an earlier FE game would've been set at, and its purely at the discretion of the player to choose to make use of any of the above features or not.

In the game's Hard mode, the game will increase the price of Reeking Boxes to prevent players from buying random encounters without breaking bank (a Reeking Box costs 4800 before any discounts and random encounters can only net you at most 4000 in Small Bullion plus a possible random item from the enemy leader if its not a Risen), it will provide enemies in later chapters with skills and forged weapons (and better weapons in general), it will provide enemy reinforcements the ability to move on the turn they appear on versus the turn after (otherwise known as Asshat Reinforcements), and it will provide enemies with a small stat boost.

In the game's Lunatic mode, enemies will gain automatic A ranks in their weapon skills, gain access to forged weapons and skills earlier, gain access to skills exclusive to enemies of Lunatic mode and higher, will have even better stats than before, random encounters scale in difficulty based upon your progress in the plot versus the location they spawn in, and you can no longer grind in Spotpass DLC battles as all actions beyond healing and claiming Event Tiles yields only 1 Exp (though you still get the Renown and characters).

And in Reverse Lunatic mode, all enemies always attack first if they are able to, and enemy exclusive skills are even better than before, among other things that I would need to look up.

Anyways, the problem though is that what the player gets is still fantastic compared to what enemies get for pretty much the entirety of the main game, especially if one takes advantage of the stuff the DLC nets you like infinite gold, an Exp farm, infinite legendaries, a Silver Card to halve the costs of purchases, plus replayable stages that can net you two random items and/or prizes for completion such as an extra class for males or females, additional skills that can A) increase all your stats by 2, B) double the rate at which you gain Exp, C) negates effective damage to fliers, and D) increase all your caps sans HP by 10, and extra characters that may have skills that might otherwise be exclusive to a particular character in the story like Conquerer or Shadowgift.

The thing though is that where the game actually does get difficult even with all of that is within the very same DLC where Double Duel has you fighting increasingly stacked opponents in straight up 2 v 1 matches where you and a partner can only bring in 3 characters in your party of your choosing only using whatever they have currently equipped (not what they have in their inventory but only what they're currently armed with; unarmed characters can not participate); the final fight of which has six risen with mountains of stats and skills like Pavise, Aegis, Leathality, Sol, Luna, Astra, and worst of all Counter to insure any damage you deal to them will be taken back in equal measure (and there's nothing you can do to bypass the damage save for one shotting them which is insanely difficult without maxed out characters or DLC skills such as Aggressor and Limit Break). The other place is in the final DLC chapter Apotheosis, where you get to challenge five waves of enemies with personal cap modifiers that can surpass your highest potential caps and the best super-forges and skills available like Dragonskin, Pavise+, Aegis+, Luna+, Vantage+, and Hawkeye.

That said though, the DLC really makes it easy to just simply break the game over your knee with even the smallest effort. I mean, just taking the DLC map Golden Gaffe alone, you can easily demolish any challenge this game might have presented you due to the way the stage works (every time you enter, you face about 20 enemies or so of various levels and stats, some of which are among the weakest in the game; its possible to take a squad of the weakest, freshest SpotPass DLC characters and have them just take on the weakest enemies on the field and win, not only Exp to gain levels and fix their awful stats, but a Small Bullion's worth of gold for each one they down, and eventually more money when they get stronger).

And then there's the Supreme Emblem from maxing out the Renown counter and having maxed out cash at the start of the game. You don't even need any paid DLC to buy a maxed out SpotPass character or two from the Avatar List and arm them with some Legendaries acquired from the Renown Rewards and/or the Bonus Box.

The tl;dr is that the only way to get an honest challenge is to purposely restrain yourself. My current Lunatic run is using a gimmick of only using DLC characters and Chrom (since he's required and all that), with the caveat that whomever dies stays dead and I have to recruit a new DLC character to replace the old one. This means that I can't take advantage of Supports beyond the barest minimum (unless somebody has the Valkyrie's Support Boost+ skill), any stat boosters I dump onto somebody will be lost forever if I lose the person, and Pair-Up bonuses lose a bit of their edge due to the lack of Supports (Support Boost+ does nothing for this). Of course, given my progress in my previous file, I had unlocked Est for my Avatar List and used my starting funds to hire her right off the bat and she's been a pillar of my team ever since as she came as a Level 5 Pegasus Knight with Galeforce, Luna, Aptitude, Underdog, and Luck+4 for her default skills. It's still difficult since two capped characters can only do so much, especially without Supports.
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« Reply #561 on: August 29, 2013, 10:07:06 AM »

I enjoy perma death for the way it makes me see battles differently. In other SRPGs I play, sacrificing units is often part of my strategy because I know they will be back for the next battle. Tactics Ogre and FFT method of perma death is too slow and easily fixable to achieve the same thing for me.

I don't have the DLC so that way of grinding is not available to me. Reeking boxes are also not an option for reasons Aeolus already mentioned. The only times I used Spotpass to grind were to level Donnel up to level 5 villager making him become usable and raising support ranks in the post game. It doesn't really matter at that stage though. Overall I found it a decent enough challenge although Kellem and Frederick seemed almost untouchable until the later stages of the game.
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« Reply #562 on: September 02, 2013, 02:05:45 AM »

Today, September 1st, is Batman's...I mean, Gerome's birthday!

He got a Celica's Gale. Not like he'll use it, but Morgan will.
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« Reply #563 on: September 02, 2013, 08:18:23 AM »

God damn Batman want to be. I really don't care for him. I like his mom a lot, but his whole brooding thing is just freaking annoying. >.> No idea on how good he is stat wise.....because he freaking broods too much for me to put him in my line up. >.>
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Aeolus
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« Reply #564 on: September 02, 2013, 09:41:19 AM »

Today, August 1st, is Batman's...I mean, Gerome's birthday!

Now I know you're doing this on purpose. It's supposed to be September 1st, and it would help if you actually posted on September 1 instead of waiting a day or two).

Anyways, yesterday was Nightwing's Char's Sirius's Gerome's B-day.

In terms of his inheritance, and not including a properly specced Female Avatar, his mother has the best 1st Gen Strength stat modifier and solid Defense (only Nowi has a higher Def Mod) as well at the expense of sharing the worst Skill modifier with Lissa, Nowi, and Tharja as well as the worst Resistance modifier with Panne. This means that a properly sired Gerome (re: The Vaike) can pass on to Morgan the highest Strength Cap modifier in the game (as well as the lowest Res Mod if the Avatar is specced for Str+ Res-).

Though in terms of classes, he's in pretty desperate need for a good father. Just from his mother Gerome is only getting the Wyvern Knight, Fighter, and Priest class trees. And while Wyvern Knight is a fairly good class tree it further emphasizes Gerome's stat distribution towards greater Strength and Defense over everything else, the Priest tree is the exact opposite in terms of potential build and is only really good for quicker level gain through Staff usage and if not for the access to the Hero class, the Fighter class tree would suck out loud (especially since, as aforementioned, the Wyvern Lord class is really suited to playing to Gerome's strengths, making the Warrior class even more redundant).

As far as Fathers are concerned, Stahl is pretty much the defacto choice for him since he offers the Cavalier and Myrmidon (and Archer) class trees for Luna and Astra access to make even better use of Gerome's massive Strength and the Paladin class is a really good class for Gerome to end up in (too bad his hair won't be blonde with Stahl since that would've made him into an even better Sirius reference). The Vaike is only really good for the aforementioned massive Str Mod, access to Axefaire and other Crit+ skills beyond Gamble, as well as making his Minervikins move 3 times as fast. Ricken isn't a bad choice for yet another potential Cav access plus something to use that Priest class for, and if nothing else, Henry's Strength growth is not insignificant plus everything's always better with Dark Magic. Unfortunately, no matter what his father his, Gerome is one of the few kids who can never get on the Galeforce (if only he could, then he could pair that with Vaike's Thief class's Move +1, with his Griffin Knight's Deliverer, a pair of Boots, a Move boosting Pair Up (with a Great Knight preferably), and a Rally Bot's Love + Move to truly make his Minerzaku move three times faster than your average unit). As it stands, the best thing Cherche can pass onto Gerome is Support Boost+ (which would be neat to pass down alongside Female Avatar's Galeforce to their son so that he can become the most shitwrecking thing alive).

Basically, Gerome looks a hell of a lot like Nightwing (come on guys, why do you have to insist that he's Batman when Nightwing is right fucking there? (although yes, Nightwing did eventually become Batman for awhile, so yes, technically speaking he is a Batman)) even without the proper hair color, but because of his mask and potentially blonde hair, dude looks like a Char. Outside of that, he'll definitely want something to further supplement his massive Strength score since he's not getting anything of the sort from his mother. Alternatively, he's the best kid to sire the most shit kicking Morgan possible (imagine a Berserker Morgan with Limit Break, Aggressor, Axefaire, Galeforce, and either Luna or Astra armed with a forged Brave Axe paired with another Berserker or Warrior with A ranked support after taking a Strength potion or Tiki's Tear, visiting the Barracks for more Str, getting Rallied for Strength, Spectrum, and Love, with a Special Dance from Olivia to boot).
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« Reply #565 on: September 02, 2013, 11:58:42 AM »

Today, August 1st, is Batman's...I mean, Gerome's birthday!

Now I know you're doing this on purpose. It's supposed to be September 1st, and it would help if you actually posted on September 1 instead of waiting a day or two).

Actually, it was an honest mistake.
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« Reply #566 on: September 14, 2013, 09:56:26 PM »

And today's
Code:
Zombie Lobster Batou's B-Day. Him and Spotpass's Minerva can ride Tachgriffins together taking down armored Great Knights and Generals while solving the case of the Laughing King (provided you do the spotpass chapter for Walhart before Gangrel's). :v

Anyways, Walhart. On the up side he's got his own class with it's own skill and everything, plus he has the best 1st Gen Strenght and Defense modifiers (with only the Avatar being able to tie him in but one of those stats). On top of that the Knight and Wyvern Knight class trees play well with his Conquerer class and stats. Also he gets his own personal weapon which is more or less on par with a legendary like Helswath (trading the Def boost for 15 extra Hit and 10 more uses).

The downside is that Conquerer is more or less just a glorified Great Knight and has no real skills of its own (Conquest could've just have been a personal skill like Aversa's Shadowgift) plus it is uninheritable (although Conquest can be inherited) and moreover the skill Conquest isn't nearly as good on a PC as it is on an enemy as enemies cannot really their offenses around effective weaponry. Add in the fact that a third generation Morgan can reach a higher personal stat cap in both Strength and Defense if he's sired by either Frederick!Gerome, Stahl!Gerome, or Kellam!Gerome than he could by Walhart alone and Walhart really doesn't have anything outstanding in terms of eugenics.

Overall, impressive as a boss, but unlikely to be able to wrest a spot on the team from any of the kids or more well raised 1st genners by the time you get him.
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« Reply #567 on: September 15, 2013, 11:14:45 PM »

Yesterday was spoiler's birthday. He got a Leif's Blade and proclaimed it TO KNEEL BEFORE HIM!
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« Reply #568 on: September 29, 2013, 07:35:33 PM »

Welp. Totally missed out on Nowi's B-day back on the 22 or so but today's the would be female Myrmidon Kjelle's B-day so I'm going to get them both here.

Anyway, despite appearances Nowi is a massive breath of fresh air to the usual Manakete mechanics in that she's not limited to a single Dragon Stone and/or exploits, which hasn't happened since the DS remakes (or barring those, FE3). Moreover Manaketes in general have their own skills (even if they suck), 1-2 attack range, and can get up to level 30 (and then reclass or drop back to level 1 like everybody else). And speaking of reclasses, Nowi gets the Wyvern Knight (puttin' a dragon on a dragon, lol) class tree and Dark Knight (Mage and Sage are more or less useless to Nowi since Manakete attacks are Strength based and Focus, the only non magic based skill, is way too situational to be useful). Still, that does net her Deliverer, Fast/Slow Burn, Lifetaker, Swordbreaker, and Lancebreaker which is a decent but not spectacular skill set at least. As for parentage potential, she's the best there is in terms of overall modifiers as well as being the most heavily invested in both Defense and Resistance outside of the Avatar, too bad she's also the worst there is in terms of Speed and Skill, but still, those are the only negatives in a field full of positives. For hubby playing house with her potential, either Gregor or Donnel would make a great choice since both net Nah the Mercenary class tree (and eventually Sol for better tanking potential) and in Donnel's case the Pegasus Knight class tree (for Galeforce shenanigans), though both Stahl and The Vaike make for solid fallbacks given their access to the Cavalier/Knight class trees (and thus Luna) respectfully. And for Morgan min/maxing, pairing Kellam and Nowi will produce a +7 Defense modifier Nah for a potential +11 Def (and potentially -6 Speed) Morgan, pairing Libra and Nowi will produce a +4 Resistance modifier Nah for a potential +8 Res Morgan (and still totally not worth it since Morgan won't gain access to Resistance +10 from Dread Fighter), pairing Donnel with Nowi will produce a -1 Skill Nah for a potentially -4 Skill Morgan (which is still a meaningless factoid; although the -2 Speed does hurt), and pairing either Kellam or Frederick with Nowi will produce a -3 Speed Nah for that Spd cap nuking -6 on Morgan. Additionally, Stahl and Ronku tie for male with the highest stat modifier total so a Nah sired by either of these gents will have the highest overall stat total of +15 (next to a Morgan born from Nah with +17).

The tl;dr on Nowi is that she gets great stats but terrible skills and her kid will need some skills from her father.


As for Kjelle, she's an odd one for gen 2ers in that outside of the Avatar and Morgan, she has the highest default class spread in the game. Of course that means that most of her potential fathers don't have as much to give her as they would other kids (especially Frederick and Lon'qu giving her jack and squat respectfully). In fact her only potential father that gives the maximum amount of classes to her is Donnel (passing over the coveted Mercenary and Pegasus Knight class trees). Beyond those factors though, anybody is up for grabs since she's more or less set for classes, including and especially Chrom for Aether (while Lucina nets one of her three possible Astras which isn't really that good since she's already guaranteed Luna from her default class; although she does get one of three Pavises as well). Outside of that though, she really doesn't have much going for her overall stats since Sully is pretty low in stat modifiers in general, only really excelling in Skill with about 3-4 other women (hell she doesn't even have a positive Strength, Magic, or Defense modifier despite being one of the more physically oriented females in Gen 1).

The tl;dr is that you really can't screw Kjelle that much since she already has one more class than anyone in gen 1 and they're pretty solid to boot (guaranteed access to  the Aegis/Pavise combo, Luna, Astra, Sword/Lancebreaker, Deliverer and Fast Burn), but its also hard to get her to do anything outstanding beyond nuking her already lackluster stat cap modifiers for Galeforce and Armsthrift (at least she wont need much to push her luck cap over 50 for unlimited forges/legendaries) or taking on only the Archer class tree for Aether.
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« Reply #569 on: September 30, 2013, 12:13:38 AM »

Today's Kjelle's birthday! (And I completely forgot about Nowi's...)

She got an Alm's Blade. *Sells it*
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