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Author Topic: Metal Gear Rising: Revengeance  (Read 26187 times)
Yggdrasil
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« Reply #30 on: December 16, 2012, 10:37:55 AM »

This particular style of action games has always have some kind of cult following like Bullet Hell and Fighting games, so is normal that this games are always going to get some crap for that or not being like God of War and its copies.
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Taelus
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« Reply #31 on: December 16, 2012, 12:03:54 PM »

You know Platinum always includes an easy mode for you guys, right? Bayo and Vanquish both had one. Or recent Capcom fighters with beginner control mode. Technically competent action games are not synonymous with high difficulty or skill cap, it's not either or. DmC could be a more technically competent game with a higher skill cap and you could still enjoy it.

It's not like improving those technical aspects of a game would ruin your casual experience if there's easy modes and such for you, so why hate on others opinions? Skilled gamers have a stronger case for why dumbing down games is bad, because while you can play a high skill cap and technically competent game at a casual level (provided there is an easy mode or whatever), you can't play a low skill cap and technically incompetent game at a high level.

Oh and "just another hard action game"? I don't think you realize how vanishingly rare such games are.

I play literally every single game on its maximum difficulty and have quit games for feeling like too much of a breeze. I'm not at all concerned with an "easy mode." I wasn't talking "hard action" as in "challenging" but as in "brutal, intense." I played and enjoyed DMC1 and 3 on every difficulty level and thoroughly enjoyed them. I'm not looking for a "casual experience," and rarely am, I'm looking for a game that isn't a rehash of DMC1, and that's literally what every single game in this genre has felt like to me.

And they're not that rare. Five Devil May Cry games, two Bayonettas, and a Metal Gear?

And in all honesty, the challenge is part of what made me check out the Touhou series; bullet hell games are indeed great. That said, I also don't buy into the hardcore fighting crowd and never have-- not because of challenege, but because playing on that level basically amounts to finding the best way to cheese the mechanics and beat your opponent, and that isn't fun to me.

« Last Edit: December 16, 2012, 12:05:47 PM by Taelus » Logged

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Ashton
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« Reply #32 on: December 16, 2012, 02:33:07 PM »

Who cares, you all suck for not buying Vanquish. :(

https://live.xbox.com/en-US/Activity?compareTo=Leyviur
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Eusis
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« Reply #33 on: December 18, 2012, 05:17:12 AM »

This particular style of action games has always have some kind of cult following like Bullet Hell and Fighting games, so is normal that this games are always going to get some crap for that or not being like God of War and its copies.

Given the series this is coming from it's very plausible anyone that doesn't like this kind of game isn't looking for a God of War, but a Metal Gear. Not that it doesn't look like there'll be at least one alternative in the future though.

It's important to remember that not wanting insane, fast paced action =/= wants slow and relatively easy hack & slash.
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mjrpgfan
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« Reply #34 on: December 18, 2012, 11:19:28 AM »

I play literally every single game on its maximum difficulty.

I'm looking for a game that isn't a rehash of DMC1, and that's literally what every single game in this genre has felt like to me.

And in all honesty, the challenge is part of what made me check out the Touhou series; bullet hell games are indeed great. That said, I also don't buy into the hardcore fighting crowd and never have-- not because of challenege, but because playing on that level basically amounts to finding the best way to cheese the mechanics and beat your opponent, and that isn't fun to me.
That's nice, but irrelevant to the points I was making.

Every single game feels like a rehash of DMC1 to you? There are significant differences within the sub-genre. Lumping DMC1-4 with the new DmC? You might as well call God of War, Darksiders, Uncharted, or even Ninja Gaiden 3 part of the genre as well then. Platinum Games is the only developer left making these kinds of games, as it seems like the NG and DmC franchises are headed in a different direction.

Analyzing a game and figuring out effective strategies is part of playing any game. Analysis and strategy above a level that you find fun does not mean the game mechanics are being "cheesed" or that the game is imbalanced. Competitive fighting games like SSF4 are very well balanced so that you need both high level knowledge of the mechanics and a lot of different gaming skills.

Action games like DMC or shoot em ups like Touhou can be analyzed and played competitively as well, so high level players complaints about hitboxes and frames are completely valid, despite your hating on people who say 'YO DAWG DANTE'S ACTION FRAMES ARE ALL FUCKED UP IN THE NEW GAME AND THE HITBOXES ARE WAY OFF'.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2012, 11:25:31 AM by mjrpgfan » Logged
Ashton
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« Reply #35 on: December 18, 2012, 05:46:08 PM »

The only hating I'm seeing here is from you.
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mjrpgfan
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« Reply #36 on: December 18, 2012, 10:41:47 PM »

Please find and quote content from my post to back up your assertion of "hating", thank you.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2012, 10:45:26 PM by mjrpgfan » Logged
Yggdrasil
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« Reply #37 on: December 18, 2012, 10:45:09 PM »

Given the series this is coming from it's very plausible anyone that doesn't like this kind of game isn't looking for a God of War, but a Metal Gear. Not that it doesn't look like there'll be at least one alternative in the future though.

Eh.

Personally I'm happy that this Metal Gear is different from the rest. It has fast-paced action with some stealth elements and it actually moves forward in the timeline of the series along other things that maybe I don't know about yet, but it feels refreshing overall.

It's important to remember that not wanting insane, fast paced action =/= wants slow and relatively easy hack & slash.

Not that I don't agree but I dunno about that.

The only hating I'm seeing here is from you.

He makes good points actually.
« Last Edit: December 19, 2012, 09:35:42 PM by Yggdrasil » Logged
Ashton
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« Reply #38 on: December 19, 2012, 12:10:40 AM »

Good points should be made without condescension and derision. The fact that he takes such considerable offense to people who dislike the criticisms leveled at DmC or whatever.

I can agree to an extent, but the amount of condescension this guy has is really annoying.
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mjrpgfan
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« Reply #39 on: December 20, 2012, 04:33:29 PM »

Once again I ask you to provide any examples of "condescension and derision" in my posts. I don't see anything that would indicate "considerable offense" like saying "I can't stand X". What's annoying you so much?
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dyeager
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« Reply #40 on: December 20, 2012, 05:07:12 PM »

I think the part where you started with "That's nice, but irrelevant to the points I was making," doesn't come off so great. It kind of sets the tone for the entire thing - without that the rest of it doesn't read so badly.

Which is a bummer because I think you make some good points.

Anyway, that was the feeling I had reading it. It doesn't sound like you really meant it that way but that's what it felt like.

You asked so I'm answering, please don't take it as criticism or anything. Obviously you feel passionately about this genre and some of the games mentioned and you answered with that passion!
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Taelus
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« Reply #41 on: December 20, 2012, 07:40:14 PM »

Yeah, exactly. And it's not that I think they're bad outright, it's just a kind of style that doesn't appeal to me. Sort of like how I love the Uncharted series, but I can appreciate why someone else wouldn't. It's scratches a very particular itch.
It's like people who bitch about professional-level tactics in fighting games. Sure, there's room for people who enjoy that kind of experience, I'm just not one of them.

Not sure where I was hating on anyone. In both of my comments I said "there's an appeal here, but it isn't for me." You're obviously just looking for an argument, but you're not going to get one from me.
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« Reply #42 on: December 21, 2012, 10:23:48 PM »

I have opposed Ashton too many times.  Allow me to side with him, in an attempt to right my wrongs.

" Analysis and strategy above a level that you find fun does not mean the game mechanics are being "cheesed" or that the game is imbalanced."

True, but you said 'above'.  That implies that his level of fun is beneath.  

Say 'beyond' next time.  

...such is the line between mr niceguy and mr butthole.

The kids want this game; so do I.  Taelus' gaming tastes otherwise conflict with mine, but I agree that games that are too technical aren't fun.  Having said that, Armored Core and the Souls games are awesome because of how deep they go, but their context makes sense.  Souls is supposed to be hard, and AC is supposed to be real.  I disagree that DMC4 or Bayonetta go too far, but if they did get super technical, there might not be a reason for it to be super hard.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2012, 10:30:18 PM by Fei » Logged

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Yggdrasil
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« Reply #43 on: December 22, 2012, 12:44:45 PM »

The Concepts Behind Rising  -- Source: PlatinumGames Blog
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mjrpgfan
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« Reply #44 on: December 23, 2012, 02:08:13 PM »

>Not sure where I was hating on anyone.

"revengernance" - Deliberately misspelling the game name.

"but I can't stand that 'YO DAWG DANTE'S ACTION FRAMES ARE ALL FUCKED UP IN THE NEW GAME AND THE HITBOXES ARE WAY OFF'" -  ALL CAPS strawman, very rude. And "I can't stand X" sounds like some severe dislike to me.

"people who bitch about" - Disrespectful way of describing someone's opinion.

>You're obviously just looking for an argument, but you're not going to get one from me.

That's really disrespectful right there.


>True, but you said 'above'.  That implies that his level of fun is beneath.  

You're misunderstanding the sentence. Analysis/strategy and fun are two completely different things. Fun can't be "above" or "below" anything, it's an opinion.
« Last Edit: December 23, 2012, 02:10:39 PM by mjrpgfan » Logged
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