Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
December 22, 2014, 04:21:53 AM

Login with username, password and session length
Search:     Advanced search
Congratulations to Andrew Barker! RPGfan Editor of the Year and now Chief News Editor!
341236 Posts in 13945 Topics by 2222 Members
Latest Member: XanTehMan
* Home Help Search Login Register
+  RPGFan Message Boards
|-+  Media
| |-+  Miscellaneous Games
| | |-+  Endings in games
« previous next »
Pages: [1] 2 Print
Author Topic: Endings in games  (Read 3017 times)
Yggdrasil
Posts: 6256


Member
*


View Profile Email

Ignore
« on: January 14, 2012, 10:26:55 PM »

I had no idea how to name this topic but I've been having this thing bothering me for a very long time now.

I sometimes wonder how endings in games affect people in a emotional way, because let's be honest there are some games that make you feel like crap after spending hours and hours of getting attached to the characters. Which can be good or a bad depending in how you see things.

In the last few years though I have come to enjoy many games with this "problem" but out of all the games I've played this are the ones that made me feel all awkward:

Metal Gear Solid 4
inFamous 2
Shadows of the Colossus
Red Dead Redemption

I enjoyed every bit from each of those titles but their endings really broke every hour of enjoyment that I had with them, with the exception of MGS4. More or less.

But the one I have the biggest annoyance is with RDR. Every single time I remember how great RDR was I always (always!) end up regretting playing it because of how it ends.

Now, the ending is very clever and is without a doubt the only way to finish that story, but the taste that left in my mouth was so bad. Is specially worse if you get attached to John Marston.

After finishing RDR I never wanted to play it again. Heck, I sold my copy of the game and the expansion for cheap. I know it might sound like hyperbole but I honestly can't stand that ending even if a small part of me appreciate it.

So the question goes like this; There has been games in your gaming life that have been ruined by their ending and make you feel all weird in the process?
Logged
Cyril
Posts: 1680


Member
*


View Profile

Ignore
« Reply #1 on: January 15, 2012, 12:14:42 AM »

Divinity 2, absolutely. I really enjoyed Divinity 2, but I know if I ever get to the 2/3 point of the way through playing it again, I'll just lose my motivation to play.  It's not that everything you do is pointless, more that

Code:
everything you do is for the person you need to kill.  Instead of killing him at the end, you make him immortal
and you end up sealed in the land of death for eternity, alive but unliving.

But, in contrast, I really, really liked the exploration-based style of gameplay they used in the expansion pack, which helped soothe over the  brutal ending of the main game.
Logged
Yoda
Son of Dad
Posts: 7821


Darkness is Void; Juffo-Wup is light

Member
*


View Profile

Ignore
« Reply #2 on: January 15, 2012, 04:41:49 AM »

w/ out discussing spoilers the endings in RDR and Shadow where two of the best endings i have ever seen in games.

I'd be interested in hearing specifically why you didn't jive w/ them. You really didn't give a hard reason why
Logged
Yggdrasil
Posts: 6256


Member
*


View Profile Email

Ignore
« Reply #3 on: January 15, 2012, 12:23:34 PM »

Is a bit hard to explain but both endings made feel like you did all this just effort to see this? I appreciate when a game has the courage to slap you in the face with your expectations and giving something totally different, but those two endings made me like crap honestly, I felt like I didn't do anything after all the trouble I went with these characters.

I'm not saying that those two games are bad for that in any way but they just left me feeling really bad. Though, I can enjoy a sad or bad ending if it gives you some kind of "peace of mind".

Like in Deus Ex: Human Revolution for example. In that game nothing good happens from the beginning, especially for the main character but at least when everything was said and done it feels that you accomplish something even if you didn't have much choice and even with that the game let me feeling kinda cold but the experience was so good and everything was put together so well that I didn't mind much.

In comparison to RDR.

Code:
In where Marston tried really hard to live a normal life to give his son a good future, but he gets betrayed by the people he helps and kidnaped his family and kill him. 3 years later after that you see Jack (the son of Marston and Abigail) in front of the grave of his parents now both death ready to take revenge by becoming what he and his mother didn't want to see his son becoming; The same exact thing as his father, in others words, a criminal.

Oh and some of the characters that you meet in your adventure with Marston gets killed by X reason or not being happy in the way they want.

You don't liked the ending? Well, bad luck because that's how it ends.

Like I said before, is a really clever way to end that story but I didn't like that "shit happens" tone that the story keep throwing at you by the end. And probably that also was my first and last Rockstar game that I'll play because RDR give me a great experience but ruined everything with his ending for me.

And SotC? To not make this post longer I'll say that I didn't like the way how tricked I feel after killing those Colossi just for one girl which ends with you being sealed away in a land that no one can enter again. I feel more sorry for Agro though. That poor horse made my cry like baby the two times I manage to finish the game. ;_;

And I better stop here. I don't enjoy writing walls of texts but I hope that explains why I didn't like those two endings. I also hope seeing more experience like this from you guys, the one from Divinity 2 that Cyril mentioned is pretty frustrating.
Logged
DPB
Posts: 580


Member
*


View Profile

Ignore
« Reply #4 on: January 15, 2012, 02:39:17 PM »

I'm not overly bothered by most endings unless it cuts straight to the credits after the final battle, that just feels like a slap in the face. I'm fine with dark endings like the ones you described as long as the story is resolved in some way, it doesn't have to end happily.

The other thing that annoys me is multiple endings - more often than not, the standard ending (i.e. the one that doesn't require an FAQ to obtain) is really short and disappointing. Valkyrie Profile is one of the worst offenders, the hoops you have to jump through just to get a half-decent ending are ridiculous and counter-intuitive. On the other hand, you have Deus Ex: HR, where selecting an ending is as simple as choosing which button to press, which felt jarring. If games are going to have multiple endings each should be the same length, and it shouldn't come down to choosing which FMV to watch, it should be a proper branch in the story. Fallout NV was one of the few games that did this right.

And yeah, you might want to avoid Rockstar's other games, because their endings are generally pretty dark.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2012, 02:41:21 PM by DPB » Logged
Yoda
Son of Dad
Posts: 7821


Darkness is Void; Juffo-Wup is light

Member
*


View Profile

Ignore
« Reply #5 on: January 15, 2012, 03:32:20 PM »

For all the reasons you don't like the endings to RDR and SoTC the same ones are why I love them.

To each their own I guess.
Logged
Ramza
Enjoying Retirement
Editor Emeritus
Posts: 9363


Member
*

TSDPatGann
View Profile WWW

Ignore
« Reply #6 on: January 15, 2012, 08:48:54 PM »

I can't speak to RDR but for SotC ... yeah, that ending is awesome for all kinds of reasons. If you haven't played / didn't pay attention to ICO, it might not matter to you as much. To me the ending to SotC is damn near perfect.
Logged

Prime Mover
Posts: 2804


All's fair in love, war, and the recording studio

Member
*

Shattre
View Profile WWW Email

Ignore
« Reply #7 on: January 15, 2012, 09:26:24 PM »

Suiko V's normal ending made me die a little inside. That game is ridiculous to get all the stars. I played it with a guide and still missed 3 because of glitches. If you don't get all of them, the ending isn't just "not super happy", it's very sad. Honestly, I've always felt that for games with multiple endings, the "normal" ending should be at least satisfying, the "good" ending being "really satisfying", and bad endings "not so satisfying".

That said, if the game's narrative calls for a tragic ending, I don't mind that either. What I don't like is if you have to work ridiculously hard to undo the tragedy, to me that's a betrayal of the creator's intent for the purpose of a gameplay device. Either SuikoV should have had "said tragedy", and be tragic by design, or only on the bad ending, as an incentive to go back and do things right.

I'm posting this on the heals of just having finished Xenoblade, whose ending was actually quite satisfying, not simply in a "everything turns out roses" way, but in a "wow, that's a really cool way to end it".

Best endings? Probably my favorite is Ico, which is extremely powerful and gripping, and keeps you on edge until literally the LAST SECOND. Final Fantasy X probably had the best ending in the FF series. I'm always partial to FFVIIIs ending though, because you see the characters acting natural, aside from the elements of the plot, I always love that. Sometimes a playable ending like in the Lunar/Grandia series is kinda nice because you can take your time, maybe even save, and see how elements turned out on your own terms. I wish more games would do that.

At first, I thought tragedies were interesting, since before a certain game, there really weren't tragedies in video games. But now that there's been quite a few, I'm starting to feel like it's just an easy emotional button to push. Almost every tragic ending gets lauded because it's emotionally intense, and unconventional (for games). It's sort of like how the Greeks viewed theatre: only tragedies were serious plays, positive endings were considered cheep and fluff. I'm can sorta see a reverse of that: tragedies are an easy way to make the audience feel something really intense at the end, what's hard is to make the audience feel something powerful but in a more subtle, complex way. I felt that's exactly what Ico did. SotC was okay, but i felt a lot less for the characters, because there was no relationship between any of them, unless you count Agro.
Logged


eelhouse.net
- order the new album

Currently Playing: Metroid Prime 2, Trails in the Sky, Bioshock: Infinite
Currently Listening to: Devin Townsend, Dream Theater
Watching: Star Trek: TOS, Slayers, Doctor Who (as usual)
Dice
Dobbelstenen Muil
AMG A GIRL
Posts: 10915


Tawdry Hepburn

Member
*


View Profile WWW

Ignore
« Reply #8 on: January 15, 2012, 11:53:01 PM »

SotC was okay, but i felt a lot less for the characters, because there was no relationship between any of them, unless you count Agro.

I think Agro falling is one moments with such great affect because of the circumstances of the game itself (heck, it's a moment that sometimes trumps the emotionality of the dramatic ending itself).  You're stuck in a land, all alone, and your one companion is an extremely friendly, brave, and intelligent horse who's riding down the river styx with you.  I don't know about you, but I truly feel lonely the second he's not there with you.  He's your best friend, as far as I'm concerned.

FFX's was a great ending even in spite of the daddy melodrama.  Jecht was a dick no matter how you look at it.  And shit like that is a "Montel-style" baby-daddy issue where Mrs. Jecht wanted to keep the kid when poppa didn't.

Suiko endings are always bitter-sweet unless you hit for the easily-missed 108. D:

Terranigma gets an A+ in almost it's entirety of story, but truly wraps up beautifully with it's ending.  I almost wanted to cry, and really straddles the life and death themes stunningly.

A huge tip of the hat goes to Ghost Trick and Hotel Dusk/Last Window for being a genuine mystery-genre'd titles that wrap up every mystery beautifully.  Ghost Trick in a fantasy-way (time travel n such), but definitely complicated and precise to it's very core.  And HD/LW gets a nod for taking on the stereotypes and tropes of the following: the ex-cop, dead partner, stolen artifact, unsolved mystery, femme fatale, money-grubbin, secret secrets, hidden rooms and passages, trapped in the toxic room, the one-degree of seperation (where everyone is involved in something, somehow), etc, etc, etc.

Breath of Fire V was, to me, one made by the circumstances of what it was achieved by.  Ryu has a fucking hell of a time that entire game, getting stabbed in the neck and knee at one point, while his final obstacle is a demented and destroyed friend, trying to saving a dying girl, and all while his own time is running out.  While the details of the resolution don't make all too much sense, the fact there was a happy resolution at all felt much deserved (an ending style I like).

Chrono Cross had an ending that, surprisingly, to me was made by it's music and art direction.
Freeing a critical character from a horrifying and withstanding villain in quite a pretty and complicated way.  I especially love the final theme as the game plays through scenes with only the sky coloured.

Limbo gets a gold star being simple, thought provoking, and brilliantly ushered in during what feel like a mid-game sequence that roars into a silencing halt.  I remember playing it with my brother; it is one of the most stressful parts of the game, but as soon as we did the final, timed jump, we went silent till the title appeared again.

Braid gets major points too if you do the outside-the-box "catch the princess" routine and understand the "hidden story" behind the surface of the game.  The art of Braid's story telling was how everything you see and do is a lie, and exposes how everything is a matter of perspective.  You helping the princess gets twisted into this immediately haunting pursuit of her, and where "achieving" your goal is ultimately set upon the idea of bringing tragedy.

Logged

http://society6.com/Dice963
http://www.redbubble.com/people/dice9633
http://dice963.tumblr.com/

Support your local Dice (and pitch her ideas)!
RAINBOW PIXEL POWER!!!
Tooker
RPGFan Editor
Posts: 9795


Member
*

king_friday@hotmail.com PeopleJohnT bigfatusername@yahoo.com
View Profile
« Reply #9 on: January 16, 2012, 12:44:30 PM »

In the last few years though I have come to enjoy many games with this "problem" but out of all the games I've played this are the ones that made me feel all awkward:

inFamous 2

I liked the endings of Infamous 2!
Logged

Those who believe in telekinetics, raise my hand.
—Kurt Vonnegut
Maxximum
Not quite over gaming
Posts: 946


Member
*


View Profile

Ignore
« Reply #10 on: January 16, 2012, 04:48:14 PM »

Wild Arms 4 had a great ending that corresponded well with the (somewhat oversold) "growing up" theme of the game. Especially the Arnaud and Raquel part, to be honest I did feel a little confused when the credits rolled because it wasn't quite what I had expected. Bitter sweet and surprisingly "realistic" for a jRPG.
Logged

NOW PLAYING:
Final Fantasy XIII: The time has come...
Edna & Harvey: The Breakout: Its...Odd...
One Finger Death Punch: F*ck Yeah! - The game
Annubis
Posts: 3803


ee yan~☆

Member
*


View Profile

Ignore
« Reply #11 on: January 16, 2012, 05:18:37 PM »

FFX's was a great ending even in spite of the daddy melodrama.  Jecht was a dick no matter how you look at it.  And shit like that is a "Montel-style" baby-daddy issue where Mrs. Jecht wanted to keep the kid when poppa didn't.

My main problem with FFX is that Sin and Jecht were the climax of the ending, but then there was this Yu Yehvon thing which just kinda turned everything to shit (and also added the most pitiful true last boss I've ever seen - seriously, auto-life on everyone always? come on man...)
Logged
Maxximum
Not quite over gaming
Posts: 946


Member
*


View Profile

Ignore
« Reply #12 on: January 16, 2012, 05:28:38 PM »

(and also added the most pitiful true last boss I've ever seen - seriously, auto-life on everyone always? come on man...)

I one shot him with Auron. Though, my grindfest on cactuar island may have had something to do with it.
Logged

NOW PLAYING:
Final Fantasy XIII: The time has come...
Edna & Harvey: The Breakout: Its...Odd...
One Finger Death Punch: F*ck Yeah! - The game
Ramza
Enjoying Retirement
Editor Emeritus
Posts: 9363


Member
*

TSDPatGann
View Profile WWW

Ignore
« Reply #13 on: January 16, 2012, 06:16:15 PM »

FFX's was a great ending even in spite of the daddy melodrama.  Jecht was a dick no matter how you look at it.  And shit like that is a "Montel-style" baby-daddy issue where Mrs. Jecht wanted to keep the kid when poppa didn't.

My main problem with FFX is that Sin and Jecht were the climax of the ending, but then there was this Yu Yehvon thing which just kinda turned everything to shit

There's a reason for that. "True End Boss" syndrome is a (potential) problem with the meta-narrative of our favorite stories. That is ... true evil doesn't have a face or a name that we want to relate to. It's just this lame impersonal disgusting thing, often parasitic (see: Lavos, JENOVA, that thing that wasn't Kuja from FFIX, and of course Yu Yevon). If we destroy whatever the "root" of the conflict is, it hurts if part of that root is something we could even remotely relate to.

In the case of FFVI, they just went balls-out with the villain. They gave him a name, a face, a story, a philosophy, and let him run wild. Kefka is one of the best villains in the FF series, whereas "thing" villains like Lavos and Yu Yevon bore me, even if the concept is intriguing.
Logged

Prime Mover
Posts: 2804


All's fair in love, war, and the recording studio

Member
*

Shattre
View Profile WWW Email

Ignore
« Reply #14 on: January 16, 2012, 06:29:47 PM »

Exactly! Hell, Yu Yevin isn't even evil, it's just his subconscious doing chaoticly random things, it's like saying "you have nightmares, therefor you're evil."

Kefka's great: totally human and ruthless megalomaniac.

Though, Kuja works just as well, if not better. I just choose not to care that there is a final "OMG EVIL SPIRIT" battle at the end. Kuja's the villain of the game, along with Garland to a lesser degree. I feel like S-E just inserted Necron in for the point of relating back to the early Final Fantasy's, where the final battle is always some evil spirit. They were, after all, trying to quote elements from the other games. That was just not one of their better moments. He's easily ignorable, and for purpose of having a truly human VILLAIN, Kuja fits the bill perfectly, and is even more relateable than Kefka.

Now, FF12-13 are really bad - evil RACE of spirit beings, none of which you can relate to. BORING! Vayne bearily counts, as he's practically possessed.
Logged


eelhouse.net
- order the new album

Currently Playing: Metroid Prime 2, Trails in the Sky, Bioshock: Infinite
Currently Listening to: Devin Townsend, Dream Theater
Watching: Star Trek: TOS, Slayers, Doctor Who (as usual)
Pages: [1] 2 Print 
« previous next »
Jump to:  



Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.20 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!