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Author Topic: Megaupload seized / shut down  (Read 9698 times)
ZeronHitaro
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« Reply #15 on: January 20, 2012, 07:06:28 PM »

I believe that no problem. XP But I'm still willing to bet those sales were illegal by terms of black letter law. Hmm, I'm going to have to research this in depth more later. I'm quite curious now what the law explicitly says regarding that.
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Dade
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« Reply #16 on: January 20, 2012, 07:06:47 PM »

As soon as the investigation ends, the police are legally obligated to hand back over the seized evidence to its original owner.
No, they're not.

100% accurate:

http://www.pajiba.com/miscellaneous/the-department-of-homeland-security-has-shut-us-down.php

This site was shut down because ONE site on the same network was hosting kiddie porn, they got all  their shit taken (including a LOT of "intellectual property" (lolSOPA)) and still have yet to get it back. It's been 5 years since that happened.
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Ashton
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« Reply #17 on: January 20, 2012, 07:11:45 PM »

I wouldn't be surprised if they just trashed everything after the investigation and flipped everyone else the bird.
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Dade
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« Reply #18 on: January 20, 2012, 07:19:06 PM »

I wouldn't be surprised if they just trashed everything after the investigation and flipped everyone else the bird.

I think that's in their S.O.P. when it comes to taking down basically ANYTHING.

On the Megaupload topic. Eh I'm not happy the FBI are involved in this. At the very least you work with local entities and appeal to them. It sucks that legit users got shafted, but with the majority of users are using it for pirating shit, well....that sucks.

BitTorrent is used for plenty of legit things, so it falls to law enforcement to shut down the actual USERS. Megaupload doesnt have that kind of shield, unfortunately.
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« Reply #19 on: January 20, 2012, 07:59:35 PM »

BitTorrent is used for plenty of legit things, so it falls to law enforcement to shut down the actual USERS. Megaupload doesnt have that kind of shield, unfortunately.

Megaupload certainly can (er...well...could) be used for plenty of legitimate things.  Whether it actually was or not is a different story.

Comparing it to Bittorrent silly, though.  Bittorrent is a protocol.  An open and well-documented protocol with many clients that use it.  The actual hosting of torrents is completely separate from development of the protocol and clients that use the protocol.  No single entity controls Bittorent.  You can shutdown sites that host torrents and go after users, but that's about it.  Saying 'shut down Bittorrent' is like saying 'shut down FTP'.  It doesn't make any sense.
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Akanbe-
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« Reply #20 on: January 20, 2012, 07:59:44 PM »

I wouldn't be surprised if they just trashed everything after the investigation and flipped everyone else the bird.

I think that's in their S.O.P. when it comes to taking down basically ANYTHING.

Team Sp00ky got all his shit taken at the Canadian border and I don't think he ever got it back either.  Took computers, cameras, and lots of streaming equipment.  They usually don't give it back, he heard.

Quote
On the Megaupload topic. Eh I'm not happy the FBI are involved in this. At the very least you work with local entities and appeal to them. It sucks that legit users got shafted, but with the majority of users are using it for pirating shit, well....that sucks.

Not surprising at all really given the racketeering and money laundering charges.  Of course, the legitimacy of these charges have come into question...

Anyway, still not a fan of this Team America shit they pulled.  Doesn't really earn any goodwill from other countries when we strong arm our way in.  I really dislike that mentality.

I haven't followed it too closely, but at the least I do think this proves SOPA and PIPA are pointless and only harmful despite the cries for it: if the US Government feels like shutting down a website badly enough then apparently it will happen.

True, but at least this way there's going to be more red tape involved as well as be more publicized/criticized.  It would have been too easy under SOPA for corporations to take things down without a word edgewise.  They've already proven to be untrustworthy as they've already issued tons of DMCA takedown notices for IP that isn't even theirs.
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Lucca
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« Reply #21 on: January 20, 2012, 08:01:49 PM »

As much as I agree that America being little Mister Pushy is kinda crappy, let's be real - people rarely used Megaupload for legit things. If the owners can't police their site, unfortunately this is the result. It's sucks others got in the crossfire.
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Dade
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« Reply #22 on: January 20, 2012, 08:04:42 PM »

BitTorrent is used for plenty of legit things, so it falls to law enforcement to shut down the actual USERS. Megaupload doesnt have that kind of shield, unfortunately.

Megaupload certainly can (er...well...could) be used for plenty of legitimate things.  Whether it actually was or not is a different story.

Comparing it to Bittorrent silly, though.  Bittorrent is a protocol.  An open and well-documented protocol with many clients that use it.  The actual hosting of torrents is completely separate from development of the protocol and clients that use the protocol.  No single entity controls Bittorent.  You can shutdown sites that host torrents and go after users, but that's about it.  Saying 'shut down Bittorrent' is like saying 'shut down FTP'.  It doesn't make any sense.


I think you missed my point....I was saying that Megaupload is screwed and rightly so because everything passes through their hands. When the law comes knocking, and there's an entity they can go after, they go after it. When it comes to BT services, it's then on the users.
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« Reply #23 on: January 20, 2012, 09:08:50 PM »

BitTorrent is used for plenty of legit things, so it falls to law enforcement to shut down the actual USERS. Megaupload doesnt have that kind of shield, unfortunately.

Megaupload certainly can (er...well...could) be used for plenty of legitimate things.  Whether it actually was or not is a different story.

Comparing it to Bittorrent silly, though.  Bittorrent is a protocol.  An open and well-documented protocol with many clients that use it.  The actual hosting of torrents is completely separate from development of the protocol and clients that use the protocol.  No single entity controls Bittorent.  You can shutdown sites that host torrents and go after users, but that's about it.  Saying 'shut down Bittorrent' is like saying 'shut down FTP'.  It doesn't make any sense.


I think you missed my point....I was saying that Megaupload is screwed and rightly so because everything passes through their hands. When the law comes knocking, and there's an entity they can go after, they go after it. When it comes to BT services, it's then on the users.

That's completely different from what you said before...you said Bittorrent has legitimate uses as a shield so law enforcement had to go after the users.  Now you're saying that the difference is the fact that Megaupload is a central entity to target.  Those are two completely different ideas.  The latter I agree with, but that's not what you said at all!  The quote is right there...
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Vanguard
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« Reply #24 on: January 21, 2012, 02:26:25 AM »

As much as I agree that America being little Mister Pushy is kinda crappy, let's be real - people rarely used Megaupload for legit things. If the owners can't police their site, unfortunately this is the result. It's sucks others got in the crossfire.

That MegaUpload was used primarily for pirating is of no import. The FBI arrested people in countries in which they had no jurisdiction. That's an abuse of authority far more heinous than some copywriter infringement.
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« Reply #25 on: January 21, 2012, 02:52:56 AM »

That`s too bad. I`ve downloaded terabytes of games and movies from them. I`m not too concerned though. There are still dozens of services like that out there, not to mention torrents.
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Lucca
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« Reply #26 on: January 22, 2012, 12:06:17 AM »

As much as I agree that America being little Mister Pushy is kinda crappy, let's be real - people rarely used Megaupload for legit things. If the owners can't police their site, unfortunately this is the result. It's sucks others got in the crossfire.

That MegaUpload was used primarily for pirating is of no import. The FBI arrested people in countries in which they had no jurisdiction. That's an abuse of authority far more heinous than some copywriter infringement.

I won't argue with you on that one. Sigh, America. :/
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Hidoshi
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« Reply #27 on: January 22, 2012, 05:42:50 PM »

They followed 3 takedowns, out of 14,500 claims (approx). That isn't compliance. It's just shitty lipservice.
That's not the point. The point is that the American government are being tremendous douchebags, strongarming anyone and everyone they deem to be criminals, both in and out of their country. I am fucking appalled at how this was handled, and frankly, you should be too.


I ordinarily would be, but it seems the FBI may have been well within their legal rights to go and do the arrests. One of the largest reasons being that MegaUpload had servers in the USA, which gives the FBI permission to apply for seizure in other countries. When that's done, then the country has the right to accept or deny the FBI's claim. Clearly, they didn't deny it.

This isn't an abuse of the law either. In some cases diplomatic crisis arises from such disputes of jurisdiction, be it due to extradition or other matters. Other times, it's a simple arrest and the foreign powers agree with each other that jurisdiction is temporarily granted. There's nothing abusive about it.

MegaUpload had US servers, therefore it was facilitating unlawful acts on US soil. The people responsible for the service had done nothing significant to counteract the unlawful acts going on within their service, therefore it was reasonable that they were to be held responsible. Since they weren't local to the US, foreign jurisdiction was sought, granted, and arrest made. This isn't uncommon, nor something you only hear about from the United States.

From the FBI:

Quote
On foreign soil, FBI special agents generally do not have authority to make arrests except in certain cases where, with the consent of the host country, Congress has granted the FBI extraterritorial jurisdiction.

Now, as to some people who've argued (and Kay isn't the first, I've made this argument for Google's position against Murdoch) that MegaUpload is just the landlord being blamed for the actions of the tenant, that would hold up if the landlord was in compliance with police searches for unlawful tenants. In this case, the landlord was uncooperative, even arrogant in the face of authority. So really, what leg does MegaUpload have to stand on? It's unreasonable to support them.

That`s too bad. I`ve downloaded terabytes of games and movies from them. I`m not too concerned though. There are still dozens of services like that out there, not to mention torrents.

And you sir, are part of the problem.
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Ashton
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« Reply #28 on: January 22, 2012, 08:40:37 PM »

That`s too bad. I`ve downloaded terabytes of games and movies from them. I`m not too concerned though. There are still dozens of services like that out there, not to mention torrents.
You are clearly a tremendous retarded monkey though.

Mark, nobody is arguing that Megaupload is innocent - they clearly are not. The problem here is that some of these charges are purposely drummed up to make them out to be bigger criminals than they really are. The US MAY have the legal right to make these arrests, yes, but the WAY it was handled is below our self-proclaimed "protectors." And just a skim over the reports proves that this isn't about justice - it's about money, plain and simple; our government now kowtows and panders to private sectors instead of furthering the common good.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2012, 08:45:03 PM by Leyviur » Logged

Eusis
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« Reply #29 on: January 22, 2012, 08:58:17 PM »

That`s too bad. I`ve downloaded terabytes of games and movies from them. I`m not too concerned though. There are still dozens of services like that out there, not to mention torrents.

Yeah, I'm really not going to tolerate that here.
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