Author Topic: Final Fantasy 25th Anniversary Thread -- Making people crazy since 1987, kupo!  (Read 78515 times)

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Lard

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Actually, Agent D, X was a big step forward ... For turn based games. X-2 was much better for the atb.
Touche, but turn based is so ancient anyway. Why would you go back and reinvent the wheel basically, especially as few games at that point (rpg wise) were still turn based. Nowadays, even FFXII's style of play are so much more entertaining and engrossing, turn based is mindless jamming on the X button for fights.

There are still fans of turn based out there.

FF12's combat got to the point where you weren't even thinking about what you were doing because it was all automated.

At least with FFX you had to think about what you were doing.
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Taelus

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Actually, Agent D, X was a big step forward ... For turn based games. X-2 was much better for the atb.
Touche, but turn based is so ancient anyway. Why would you go back and reinvent the wheel basically, especially as few games at that point (rpg wise) were still turn based. Nowadays, even FFXII's style of play are so much more entertaining and engrossing, turn based is mindless jamming on the X button for fights.

There are still fans of turn based out there.

FF12's combat got to the point where you weren't even thinking about what you were doing because it was all automated.

At least with FFX you had to think about what you were doing.

I'm no defender of FFXIII, but I absolutely disagree that you weren't thinking what you were doing. The strategy in XIII was on the macro level-- paradigm setups, changing them appropriately, and reacting quickly to changing battle conditions, rather than on the micro level of choosing your individual commands. Different kind of strategy, but by no means mindless.
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Kevadu

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While their is a strategy in some sense in FFXIII, my main beef with the game is that the exact same strategy works for every single battle.  Which is kind of the same as having no strategy at all.  I actually like what they were trying to do in theory, but they abstracted things so much that there was very little real choice.  There were certain paradigms which were basically essential and others that were completely worthless wastes of space.  Once you figured out the tricks in the system, that was it.  You could win every single fight by going through the same exact steps, it was just a matter of patience.  And boy did it require patience, because the HP numbers on even regular enemies in the end game were ridiculous...

Taelus

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While their is a strategy in some sense in FFXIII, my main beef with the game is that the exact same strategy works for every single battle.  Which is kind of the same as having no strategy at all.  I actually like what they were trying to do in theory, but they abstracted things so much that there was very little real choice.  There were certain paradigms which were basically essential and others that were completely worthless wastes of space.  Once you figured out the tricks in the system, that was it.  You could win every single fight by going through the same exact steps, it was just a matter of patience.  And boy did it require patience, because the HP numbers on even regular enemies in the end game were ridiculous...


I'll agree with that. I can't speak for FFXIII-2 though, since I've only played a few hours. Couldn't stand the plot... or, more importantly, the characters. But I defnitely think FFX did a great job with its battle system, at least until you got so far into the game that you could smoke almost everything outside of super bosses by DOING NOTHING EVERY TURN.*

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Cyril

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While their is a strategy in some sense in FFXIII, my main beef with the game is that the exact same strategy works for every single battle.  Which is kind of the same as having no strategy at all. 

This is untrue.

The issue is that the flexibility doesn't actually present itself until after you've already beaten the final boss, and by then it's too late for many people. The strongest post-game enemies require knowing what you're doing and some trial and error, but I can guarantee that you will not be using the same strategy for them. Like FFXII, the strategy occurs on the macro level and, during some of the battles it's really a thing of beauty to watch when pulled off properly.

Now, XIII-2, unfortunately, doesn't even have this post-game difficulty and I can understand your criticism.

Agent D.

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Kevadu is completely right, the same strategy works for every standard fight in XIII, the optional fights post game aren't standard, and the same strategy works for most of them anyway.

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Dice

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I also want to add that strategy in normal RPGs isn't really as in-depth either when it comes to using your "powerhouse" character to just attack with their strongest, have a mage heal when necessary, another to provide support, etc.

I think it's about the level of strategy we're talking, and if we can agree to disagree, I think they're kind of in different leagues of battle system, not many standard RPGs let you "choose roles" on the fly and allow that kind of flexibility between characters.

Anyways.  If there is any certainty, it's how goddamn contentious "Final Fantasy 13" is when it's brought up.
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Aeolus

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FFX Strategy: Sure. You can do things sub-optimally if you have the Spheres for it and aren't in any real danger.

FFX-2 Strategy: Dark Knight/Berserker, Dark Knight, Alchemist = You can be plastered to the wall and not give any fucks and still beat this game.

FFXII Strategy: Do you know programming?: >Y/>N

FFXIII Strategy: Do what we tell you or you're going nowhere.

FFXIII-2 Strategy: Find a hulk of a monster => Progress until things stop dying in under a minute => Find new hulk monster => Rinse and Repeat.

FFXIII-2 Post Game/DLC Strategy: Grind like a motherfucker with a GameFAQs guide in hand so that you don't screw yourself over completely.
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Yggdrasil

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Breaking News: Yoichi Wada resigns as Square Enix CEO

"Square Enix released some really bad numbers to investors today. Wada has stepped down to "make way for management reform". Yosuke Matsuda takes up the post of CEO."
« Last Edit: March 26, 2013, 05:46:47 AM by Yggdrasil »

Aeolus

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Breaking News: Yoichi Wada resigns as Square Enix CEO

"Square Enix released some really bad numbers to investors today. Wada has stepped down to "make way for management reform". Yosuke Matsuda takes up the post of CEO."

I'm surprised it took this long for the guy to get the boot. Maybe now we can look forward to something other than the dread of yet another ill conceived Squeenix compilation.
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Lard

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I'm no defender of FFXIII, but I absolutely disagree that you weren't thinking what you were doing. The strategy in XIII was on the macro level-- paradigm setups, changing them appropriately, and reacting quickly to changing battle conditions, rather than on the micro level of choosing your individual commands. Different kind of strategy, but by no means mindless.

I was talking about FF12's combat system.

I liked FF13's combat system.

Good riddance to Wada. He's managed to keep Squeenix afloat through foreign acquisitions only.

If they hadn't bought companies like Eidos, I wouldn't have been surprised to see Squeenix mismanaged into the ground.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2013, 11:19:31 AM by Lard »
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Yggdrasil

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Tomb Raider has sold 3.4 million copies, failed to hit expectations -- Source: Eurogamer

Crazy how with all those copies sold Tomb Raider, Sleeping Dogs and Hitman: Absolution are still considered "a failure" for the company.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2013, 02:55:00 PM by Yggdrasil »

Taelus

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Yeah, this reminds me of the Amalur fiasco. If your game selling million-plus copies is underperforming, you need to adjust your expectations and maybe budget a little better?
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Dice

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Namco Bandai was pretty bad for this too.  They expected their goddamn "CLash of the Titans" games (y'know, the GAME based on the shitty MOVIE?) to sell over 500k.
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GrimReality

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Tomb Raider has sold 3.4 million copies, failed to hit expectations -- Source: Eurogamer

Crazy how with all those copies sold Tomb Raider, Sleeping Dogs and Hitman: Absolution are still considered "a failure" for the company.
What idiots. I think 3.4 million is amazing considering all the bad mojo the TR franchise has built up over the years. If someone had asked me, I would have guessed that it would sell just under a million the first week. What the hell were they expecting?
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