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Author Topic: Mugen Souls  (Read 9952 times)
ZeronHitaro
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« Reply #15 on: February 27, 2012, 10:31:55 PM »

Learning kanji is a seemingly endless process...

This right here is the fundamental problem with any "Hey I'll just go learn Japanese!" approach. To elaborate upon Kevadu's statement; in college I had a Japanese teacher (actually a native of the nation) who summarized it by saying there are new Kanji created every year. For my own analogy I would say imagine if the American alphabet suddenly spawned 2 new letters every year which only had very specific uses. Any attempt to 'learn' the language would be far outdated by the time you made any progress. So you pretty much have to live in the culture to have a hope in hell of being able to  proactively read it proficiently.

Thing is not even the Japanese can fully keep up with the additions to their own language. That's why mispronunciations and word-play humor are such a big thing over there. The language is so complex and ever growing that it's very easy to slip up your words due to a mispronounced syllable or by incorrectly interpreting a Kanji.
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Kevadu
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« Reply #16 on: February 28, 2012, 12:53:32 AM »

Learning kanji is a seemingly endless process...

This right here is the fundamental problem with any "Hey I'll just go learn Japanese!" approach. To elaborate upon Kevadu's statement; in college I had a Japanese teacher (actually a native of the nation) who summarized it by saying there are new Kanji created every year. For my own analogy I would say imagine if the American alphabet suddenly spawned 2 new letters every year which only had very specific uses. Any attempt to 'learn' the language would be far outdated by the time you made any progress. So you pretty much have to live in the culture to have a hope in hell of being able to  proactively read it proficiently.

Er...what era is your Japanese teacher from?  Certainly there was a time when people were actively making up new characters (where do you think all these characters came from...), but that sort of thing is very much discouraged today.  The Japanese government sets standards for the language and there are exactly 2,136 "jouyou kanji" that are accepted for normal use in the language.  In addition to these there's another set of 983 kanji that are strictly used in proper names, the jinmeiyou kanji.  The list of jinmeiyou kanji has seen more fluctuation but again they are only used in names and it's common to write furigana readings for jinmeiyou kanji when they appear in print.  Even native speakers won't necessarily know the less common ones.

Now sometimes you hear talk about how there's over 50,000 chinese characters...and there are, historically.  But first of all that's in China, and second of all many of them aren't in use anywhere anymore.  In both languages the characters are tied closely to the vocabulary and just like there are words that fall out of use or get changed beyond recognition there are characters that fall out of use or get changed beyond recognition.  Have you ever tried reading the Oxford English dictionary and see how many of the words in there you actually know?  Most of them are completely obsolete and you would never recognize.  However, in the modern digital age changes to the basic character set are unlikely to happen.  First of all, people are more connected than ever (change usually happens in isolation).  But more than that the unicode people aren't going to be happy about having to constantly revise their standards ;)

My comment was more referring to the fact that even learning 2,136 is a lot.  And it's even more complicated than that because the same character can have different readings in different contexts.  I know some people take a different approach but I've always tackled it in the sense of learning kanji at the same time I'm learning vocabulary.  Whenever you learn a new word try to learn the characters that make it up at the same time.  After learning enough words you'll start to see characters repeat (and perhaps you'll even grasp their meaning), but I don't dwell too much on the meanings of the actual characters...
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Klyde Chroma
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« Reply #17 on: February 29, 2012, 01:26:12 PM »

Don't misread me.... I wasn't under the impression learning Japanese (or any language for that matter) was a modest under-taking, by any stretch, that would be accomplished with a quick purchase off the bargain-book rack and a few hours of reading.... Nor did/ do I think I'd be cracking open import titles and blazing through them next week.... I actually did study a few eastern written dialects long ago when I was involved in martial arts heavily and while what I needed to learn then didn't involve having to understand much of the grammer end of things, I was none-the-less exposed enough to know the complexity.

But I think its just silly to abandon a goal based on the fact that it is daunting.... With a few hours of hardcore daily study and seeking out some additional tutelage I do believe it is a realistic goal that can be achieved to the point where gaming is doable within the realm of a few years... Especially if you are actively using games and anime as source material to "practice" with as Kev' so appropriately pointed out.

On a personal note, I'm lucky enough to have a flexible schedule to allocate the time to a daily study (and do)... I have no familial obligations, no friends I see on any regular basis, and most of my work can be accomplished in time frames I devise making the means to achieving such a goal a simple decision of choosing to apply myself appropriately.... And I believe that to be the case with most goals, linguistics aside..

I do have a question though... I was once told by someone fluent in various dialects that modern American english is unique to the point that it makes it very difficult to learn other languages when it is your primary-spoken, and likewise very difficult for non-english speaking peoples to learn in contrast to most other languages..... Is it true that English is that  much of a far cry from the rest of the world in regard to verbal and written communication?

............ but enough of that..... it was all really just lofty thought in passing... not something I will set out to do... well probably not..... I have to admit though I am sort of motivated to a degree, honestly..... but back on topic.... well to some degree.....

....with some of the things released in America in such poor taste, I really hate the fact that some poorly recieved humor outside our cultural "norm" kills the chances of games being localized.... Especially games that look this cool.... damnit....

This thread reveals discouraging truths, it does.....
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Zendervai
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« Reply #18 on: February 29, 2012, 01:31:57 PM »

I'm really bad at learning other languages, but I had a French teacher describe English in this way. "English is a linguistic serial mugger. It runs around attacking other languages and stealing random words and rules without paying any attention to if they fit in with the rest of its collection." The only reason English is learnable at all is that it is at least somewhat phonetic. Imagine if Japanese or Chinese worked the same way. They'd be nigh impossible to learn.
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Dincrest
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« Reply #19 on: June 12, 2012, 02:16:43 PM »

Well, if it wasn't obvious from my preview from the E3 floor, Mugen Souls is getting localized.  To be honest, I had my misgivings about the game like everyone else, especially since I'm not the biggest Compile Heart/Idea Factory fan, Hakuoki notwithstanding (that game was great.)  But when I saw it hidden away in a corner of the Tecmo-Koei booth (next to Pokeymans Conquest), I figured, "Ehh, why not?"  And guess what?  I happened to enjoy it quite a bit more than expected, perhaps more than I should have, when I demo'd it at E3.  Sure, a lot of text was still in Japanese but I thought the game was fun and funny.  

Oh, and like I said in my preview, NISA kept mum when asked about the naughty onsen stuff addressed earlier in the thread, but did say that the game's virtually unchanged, especially the dialogue and Japanese voices.   http://www.rpgfan.com/previews/Mugen_Souls/index.html

Klyde- if I have a bead on your gaming tastes as well as I think I do, you'll adore this game.  

And this got me thinking.  It's almost like dating outside your type in a way.  Even if your preferred type is the dark-haired, edgy, punk/metal chick, and someone sets you up with a blonde, breezy, pop-princess cheerleader (basically, not your type) but you decide, "Ehh, why not?  I'll give this girl a chance" then end up having a good time with her in spite of yourself and you think, "You know, maybe I just might go out with her again."  
« Last Edit: June 12, 2012, 02:18:32 PM by Dincrest » Logged

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Klyde Chroma
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« Reply #20 on: June 13, 2012, 02:44:33 PM »

Well, if it wasn't obvious from my preview from the E3 floor, Mugen Souls is getting localized.  To be honest, I had my misgivings about the game like everyone else, especially since I'm not the biggest Compile Heart/Idea Factory fan, Hakuoki notwithstanding (that game was great.)  But when I saw it hidden away in a corner of the Tecmo-Koei booth (next to Pokeymans Conquest), I figured, "Ehh, why not?"  And guess what?  I happened to enjoy it quite a bit more than expected, perhaps more than I should have, when I demo'd it at E3.  Sure, a lot of text was still in Japanese but I thought the game was fun and funny.  

Oh, and like I said in my preview, NISA kept mum when asked about the naughty onsen stuff addressed earlier in the thread, but did say that the game's virtually unchanged, especially the dialogue and Japanese voices.   http://www.rpgfan.com/previews/Mugen_Souls/index.html

Klyde- if I have a bead on your gaming tastes as well as I think I do, you'll adore this game.  

And this got me thinking.  It's almost like dating outside your type in a way.  Even if your preferred type is the dark-haired, edgy, punk/metal chick, and someone sets you up with a blonde, breezy, pop-princess cheerleader (basically, not your type) but you decide, "Ehh, why not?  I'll give this girl a chance" then end up having a good time with her in spite of yourself and you think, "You know, maybe I just might go out with her again."  

To be honest Mr. Dincrest not only do you have a fair idea of the games I appreciate but you were the source of the only news from E3 that really sparked my interest. On both accounts, I thank you :)

 I had my suspicions that Mugen Souls was gonna be my favorite or, at least, most anticipated release this year. Now I'm sure of it!! Thank you for the ray of console hope amidst the sea of first-person-shooters in which my JRPG vessel was floundering.

I know these titles don't exactly fetch top dollar or have the biggest following but seriously.... if it were not for you I wouldn't have heard another word about it since the announcement that they planned to localize it! The guys at my gamestop weren't even aware the title existed as I ranted about it whilst picking up my copy of Dragons Dogma. So one last time, kudos on the excellent report :)
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cj_iwakura
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« Reply #21 on: June 13, 2012, 04:59:45 PM »

Yeesh, I'll stick to fumbling my way through imports by screencapping spells and putting subtitles on them in MSP and using the images as reference.
(Yes, this is a thing I did for Soul Hackers.)
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Dincrest
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« Reply #22 on: June 13, 2012, 05:25:50 PM »

As far as console JRPGs go, Mugen Souls and Ni No Kuni were pretty cool.  Most of the JRPG stuff is on handhelds and tablets these days; for example, Kemco's building a little cottage industry for old-school style JRPGs for tablets.  

And though it's not Japanese, if you're a fan of VanillaWare type games (i.e. Odin Sphere), definitely check out Dust: An Elysian Tail on XBLA.  That game was really good.  If I didn't know it was an indie game, I would have thought it was the next VanillaWare title.   

So I hear folks loud and clear on the "where are the console JRPGs?" front.  While handhelds are great and are fast becoming the last bastion for traditional JRPGs, I myself prefer to play on big screens because my eyesight isn't what it used to be.  Heck, that's why I favor my PSP over my DS because I can hook it up to my TV. 

« Last Edit: June 13, 2012, 05:30:58 PM by Dincrest » Logged

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Klyde Chroma
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« Reply #23 on: June 13, 2012, 05:42:08 PM »

The plug and play connectivity with the television sported by the PSP should simply be a standard for handhelds... I can't imagine for the life of me why it isn't... whether or not I can play on a television is a real deal-breaker for me even with some of the best titles....
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Dincrest
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« Reply #24 on: June 13, 2012, 06:25:12 PM »

I would assume that the touch screen functionality of the DS would be difficult to recreate on a TV (and perhaps any necessary 3D aspects of the 3DS too), but with the Wii-U pad, I see DS-to-TV connectivity being more feasible.
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John
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« Reply #25 on: June 13, 2012, 06:34:46 PM »

What I think is kind of funny is that the Vita development units actually have HDMI video-out.  I have no idea why Sony scrapped it from the retail versions.
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« Reply #26 on: June 13, 2012, 06:45:45 PM »

That's not even funny, that's removing a selling point for the system. :|
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Eusis
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« Reply #27 on: June 13, 2012, 07:56:43 PM »

Cost, wanting to emphasize it's a portable, save for a revision...

I imagine implanting mini-HDMI would be more practical than a full sized one anyway.
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Alisha
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« Reply #28 on: June 14, 2012, 02:20:53 AM »

so they can reintroduce it with the vita 3000 of course!

as for japaneese i managed to teach myself kana. its pretty easy to learn and heavily used for names of things. i wont help with the story but its enough to get me through most games. the reason kana is easy to learn is because its used to write names and other things foreign to the japaneese language so you dont need a japaneese vocabulary. sordo=sword and you already know what a sword is.
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ZeronHitaro
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« Reply #29 on: July 12, 2012, 10:54:46 PM »

The pre-order is up. Limited edition comes with the usual. Soundtrack, art book, figurines,...and a body sponge.

A game...with the 'bathe little girls to make them stronger' mechanic...comes with a sponge.

A sponge shaped like a rabbit...

It comes...with a *** **** freaking BODY SPONGE!

What the hell Japan? What in the fresh crab-pincered red welt of Cerberus' third lower teet is wrong with you people!?
« Last Edit: July 12, 2012, 10:56:19 PM by ZeronHitaro » Logged
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