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Subject: Persona 3: FES
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Date: 3rd October 2014 Time: 16:00 EST
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Author Topic: Mugen Souls  (Read 10833 times)
insertnamehere
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« Reply #45 on: July 13, 2012, 08:48:38 PM »

I think people that want games like this but refuse to support them probably buy them used.
A doll and sponge seem very tame compared to that LE boxart of Agarest 1, but that could be just me.
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« Reply #46 on: July 14, 2012, 02:15:30 AM »

Why would the figurines/dolls be an issue? Curious since people seem to be lumping them in with the sponge. Really I thought figures were just part for the course for 'standard limited edition extras' right up there with the Art Books and CDs.
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Yggdrasil
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« Reply #47 on: July 14, 2012, 04:36:37 AM »

The truly sad part about the whole scenario with games like this.... that is, games where the creepiness of a mini-game or LE content causes a bit of a jaw drop amongst fans....... is that is totally takes precedence over anything relevant to the game itself....

I see this now to be true with Agarest 2.... The game is freakin' GREAT.... it might not be everyone's cup of tea, certainly not, but it deserves WAY more attention then it got.... beyond being just a step up from past IF/CH efforts, it stands in and of itself as one of the best and most original things to happen by way of J-SRPGs on consoles in years....  But alas, it will go down in most peoples memory as "the game that came with a blow-up doll" and not "that game with incedible sprites and a valkyrie profile-esque combat system, with a narrative that blows its prior installments out of the water...." despite the fact that the blow up doll and weird pervy-mini-games are a complete afterthought when it comes to the title itself..... the bathhouse mini-games suck by the way and are by no means anything to get worked up over.....

It sounds like Agarest 2 should have better been a completely new title instead of a sequel to get the interest of more people.

I actually talked to one guy the other day who was literally embarased to buy Agarest War 2 because of the whole LE blow up doll thing, despite the fact that he admitted to thinking the game looked good and he did in fact want it.....  Now that to me is shocking and ridiculous.... the fact ANYONE would get so hung up on this stuff as to deny themselves any chance to enjoy the game itself or even give it a chance is what is truly silly to me....

Is understandable why would someone feel ashamed of buying a game like Agarest at first. Though, the only genuine problem that I see here is that the dude buying the game is probably still a bit inmature to care for what other people will think of him for enjoying such a thing. But that's just my opinion of course.
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« Reply #48 on: July 14, 2012, 04:55:38 PM »

And this goes back to a whole discussion about guilty pleasures.  I have them, and am definitely working on just saying, "Yeah, I like what I like.  So what?"  Let the monkeys chatter and shake their heads at my guilty pleasures.  I like what I like.  I may be a punk/metal guy, but I love cheesy Asian pop music too.  And for all I know, a pop star like Carly Rae Jepsen just may be a closet punk/metalhead who prefers aggressive bassists with moshpit scuffs over sanitized "boy" pop stars.  Hey, if Nergal from Behemoth could have a relationship with a Polish pop star and still have "street cred" for fronting one of the most intense blackened death metal bands out right now...

I like when Brian Fair of Shadows Fall said, "Hell yeah, we'd open up for Britney Spears and we'd rock her crowd every night!" 

And I'm not going to lie, the part of Mugen Souls I played at E3 where the game was heavily making fun of bikinis with abnormally high DEF stats spoke to me, because I complain about chain mail bikinis all the time. 
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Zendervai
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« Reply #49 on: July 14, 2012, 05:39:44 PM »

The truly sad part about the whole scenario with games like this.... that is, games where the creepiness of a mini-game or LE content causes a bit of a jaw drop amongst fans....... is that is totally takes precedence over anything relevant to the game itself....

I see this now to be true with Agarest 2.... The game is freakin' GREAT.... it might not be everyone's cup of tea, certainly not, but it deserves WAY more attention then it got.... beyond being just a step up from past IF/CH efforts, it stands in and of itself as one of the best and most original things to happen by way of J-SRPGs on consoles in years....  But alas, it will go down in most peoples memory as "the game that came with a blow-up doll" and not "that game with incedible sprites and a valkyrie profile-esque combat system, with a narrative that blows its prior installments out of the water...." despite the fact that the blow up doll and weird pervy-mini-games are a complete afterthought when it comes to the title itself..... the bathhouse mini-games suck by the way and are by no means anything to get worked up over.....

It sounds like Agarest 2 should have better been a completely new title instead of a sequel to get the interest of more people.

Actually, Agarest 2's plot is a deconstruction of the plot of the first, and it takes place in a parallel version of the world from the first, down to an identical creation myth. It sounds lazy, but they built everything from the ground up, so it ends up actually being pretty unique. The only other thing I've seen that does something similar is the Manifold: Space/Time/Origin series by Stephen Baxter where it takes place in three different universes each with one major difference. It wouldn't work nearly as well as a standalone title.
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Klyde Chroma
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« Reply #50 on: July 15, 2012, 11:18:31 PM »

And this goes back to a whole discussion about guilty pleasures.  I have them, and am definitely working on just saying, "Yeah, I like what I like.  So what?"  Let the monkeys chatter and shake their heads at my guilty pleasures.  I like what I like.  I may be a punk/metal guy, but I love cheesy Asian pop music too.  And for all I know, a pop star like Carly Rae Jepsen just may be a closet punk/metalhead who prefers aggressive bassists with moshpit scuffs over sanitized "boy" pop stars.  Hey, if Nergal from Behemoth could have a relationship with a Polish pop star and still have "street cred" for fronting one of the most intense blackened death metal bands out right now...

I like when Brian Fair of Shadows Fall said, "Hell yeah, we'd open up for Britney Spears and we'd rock her crowd every night!" 

And I'm not going to lie, the part of Mugen Souls I played at E3 where the game was heavily making fun of bikinis with abnormally high DEF stats spoke to me, because I complain about chain mail bikinis all the time. 

I know just as well as the next guy that at times it is tough to say "I like what I like, deal with it.."..... being a tattoo artist who watches nothing but anime and plays nothing but "creepy" JRPG's in my spare time has landed me on the recieving end of some verbal abuse (to say the least) amongst peers in my field.... but ya know what? It also lands me quite a few clients  who want kick-ass gaming tattoos who tell me flat out they never even considered sporting ink until they met me, saw my arm and realized tattoos weren't all skulls, busty chicks, flowers, butterflies, tribal designs and the occasional portrait. My point......? Well I suppose I don't really have one aside from illustrating the fact that even the strangest of folk with the least typical of interests given their role or "image" have their place.... I'm glad I found my "place" amongst my awesome clientele' because it certainly isn't amongst most artists in my profession- LoL
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« Reply #51 on: July 16, 2012, 10:12:27 AM »

I like some of the most blatant pop stuff out there (call me maybe included) but also love everything from CAN, to Sonic Youth. In terms of music I stopped caring what other people think of my tastes a long time ago. Yet I have to say I worry slightly more about games. I think Mugen Souls looks pretty interesting, (besides the bathing thing, that crosses the line for me, I have no use for that stuff) yet I would be a lot more leery of people knowing I was playing that. Maybe its the sexual undertones that do it, I am not sure, but I just thought it was an interesting difference. In the end I don't think you should ever cater what you like because of what others may think.
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« Reply #52 on: July 16, 2012, 11:30:18 AM »

A lot of JRPGs and visual novels have an onsen (hot springs), bath house, hot tub type scene/component in their storylines.  Much of the time, they're ridiculous.  Mugen Souls, from what I saw at E3, goes over the top in making fun of various tropes and in doing so here, the satire turned out creepier than the creepy stuff it purportedly makes fun of. 

I am curious how the creepy onsen component will be handled in the localization, though. 
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« Reply #53 on: July 19, 2012, 09:51:10 PM »

And this goes back to a whole discussion about guilty pleasures.  I have them, and am definitely working on just saying, "Yeah, I like what I like.  So what?"  Let the monkeys chatter and shake their heads at my guilty pleasures.  I like what I like.  I may be a punk/metal guy, but I love cheesy Asian pop music too.  And for all I know, a pop star like Carly Rae Jepsen just may be a closet punk/metalhead who prefers aggressive bassists with moshpit scuffs over sanitized "boy" pop stars.  Hey, if Nergal from Behemoth could have a relationship with a Polish pop star and still have "street cred" for fronting one of the most intense blackened death metal bands out right now...

I like when Brian Fair of Shadows Fall said, "Hell yeah, we'd open up for Britney Spears and we'd rock her crowd every night!" 

And I'm not going to lie, the part of Mugen Souls I played at E3 where the game was heavily making fun of bikinis with abnormally high DEF stats spoke to me, because I complain about chain mail bikinis all the time. 

I know just as well as the next guy that at times it is tough to say "I like what I like, deal with it.."..... being a tattoo artist who watches nothing but anime and plays nothing but "creepy" JRPG's in my spare time has landed me on the recieving end of some verbal abuse (to say the least) amongst peers in my field.... but ya know what? It also lands me quite a few clients  who want kick-ass gaming tattoos who tell me flat out they never even considered sporting ink until they met me, saw my arm and realized tattoos weren't all skulls, busty chicks, flowers, butterflies, tribal designs and the occasional portrait. My point......? Well I suppose I don't really have one aside from illustrating the fact that even the strangest of folk with the least typical of interests given their role or "image" have their place.... I'm glad I found my "place" amongst my awesome clientele' because it certainly isn't amongst most artists in my profession- LoL

i'm turned off by the art style it's to chibi-ish for me. there is some fan service i feel a little conflicted about. as a punk/metal dude myself i think that culturally speaking from the punk side of things your supposed to stand against inequality especially for women's sake. that said, i bought record of agarest war one and the first two ar tonelico's because they have systems that other games don't. i want more mature titles that's why i bought all the smt games, however i'd rather it didn't come off as pedolite or just plain gratuitous. the onsen scene in persona 3 didn't seem so bad i could totally see junpei instigating peeking at the ladies. it sorta sucks that in america were so uptight about sex. like the whole tomb raider fiasco about the implied rape. why did they back off? to me fighting/killing a rapist/potential sexual assault is a pretty justifiable reason to become a bad ass. to me it sort of boils down to context and i think soaping up your team to buff (oh the PUN-ishment) is sort of ridiculous. from what i've seen though this game doesn't seem to be taking itself to seriously.

i appreciate both of you guys it's nice to have dudes on the boards i can relate to besides rpgs.

klyde i'm totally coming out this winter for that persona 3 tattoo don't think i've forgotten.   
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ZeronHitaro
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« Reply #54 on: October 05, 2012, 06:36:21 AM »

11 days til release. Been following the website off and on; the sheer amount of character customization is oh so painfully tempting me to go pre-order. Opposingly though there has been nary a screenshot of the game with dialog thus far that doesn't make it look like it won't be laced to the brim with stupidity of the worst kind. XP That and NISA still hasn't said if the bathing aspect has been cut out yet. Anyone got any info that I don't? Would help the decision process.

Edit: Found a review buried in the facebook page. Bathing mini-game has been removed. Thank goodness someone had some common sense. Will most likely be pre-ordering this now. <3

Edit 2: Strike that; this makes the second review that points out the game being incredibly misogynistic...hmm...:-\
« Last Edit: October 05, 2012, 06:52:50 AM by ZeronHitaro » Logged
Annubis
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« Reply #55 on: October 05, 2012, 07:38:24 AM »

Even though removing the bathing minigame makes sense, I'm never happy about censorship =/
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ZeronHitaro
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« Reply #56 on: October 05, 2012, 07:47:02 AM »

From a personal perspective; I fail to see how it's censorship to begin with seeing as how it's both in that 'morally harmful to others' and 'illegal (child porn by American law)' category.

For example; you'd never seen anyone crying 'censorship' if a company or government agency banned an artist from fulfilling his 'artistic vision' because said vision is 'burning stranger's houses to the ground and making statues with the home's ashes' (which is a legitimate example since literally 'anything' counts as 'modern art' or 'performance art' these days). Said example being morally harmful in the 'depriving someone of their home/sense of security' and illegal in the 'arson' departments. This really shouldn't be all that different.

Edit: Just to clarify are we talking about censorship in the literal, removal of X as a factual statement, way? Or censorship as in the, this destroys the integrity of the creators work, way?

I ask because I'm approaching this from the second perspective. 'Artistic freedom' does not give you the right to 'do anything you want and get away with it'. Same as how 'free speech' does not mean 'I can say whatever I want and get away with it'.

I.E: You can't walk up to the President, cock your hand in a swift gun-motion and say 'Bang!' without forfeiting your life just because of 'free speech'. As with this; you can't create a simulation in which you place another human being in the position of re-enacting a bath scene with something of questionable age and intent without it being equally deleted by proper society just because of 'artistic freedom'.
« Last Edit: October 05, 2012, 08:06:01 AM by ZeronHitaro » Logged
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« Reply #57 on: October 05, 2012, 09:48:27 AM »

Wow they totally removed the bath minigame?  That's weak

Also Zeron that is a huge load of BS.  morally harmful to others?  How?  And child porn?  These are drawings.  No actual child is depicted or harmed in any way.

This is censorship
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Mickeymac92
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« Reply #58 on: October 05, 2012, 10:28:21 AM »

I'm happy they removed it just because I dislike pointless mini-games. Not that I'll be playing this regardless...
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ZeronHitaro
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« Reply #59 on: October 05, 2012, 02:45:12 PM »

Wow they totally removed the bath minigame?  That's weak

Also Zeron that is a huge load of BS.  morally harmful to others?  How?  And child porn?  These are drawings.  No actual child is depicted or harmed in any way.

This is censorship

Do I really need to explain why enabling, encouraging, and rewarding someone to get into the tub with a naked, under-aged individual, who has no family relationship to you, and touch them in any way, shape, or form is considered 'morally wrong' by most modern societies? (Which is what the mini-game does by virtue of being a virtual simulation that gives positive re-enforcement for doing that. And yes; if you'd bother to read my quotations is it porn 'by American law'.)

But since this is the internet...enjoy.

It mentions at least two cases where the 'cartoon images' of lewd acts were considered additional counts of CP along with the other 'real-life' material. With an additional instance at the bottom mentioning the single individual to be solely convicted for possessing 'cartoon' material.

This isn't even me injecting my own personal opinion on the matter and please; don't take my word for it. Free free to pull aside anyone you see on the street. Any race, any religion, any background and ask them. See if a majority agrees with that statement. The 'how' or 'why' doesn't matter; this is one of those things determined by society as a whole.
« Last Edit: October 05, 2012, 02:53:40 PM by ZeronHitaro » Logged
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