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Author Topic: Is Zelda Skyward Sword really the best Zelda game ever?  (Read 3632 times)
D-Rider
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« Reply #15 on: March 23, 2012, 12:58:04 AM »

Skyward Sword is the only Zelda game I have never beaten, and I didn't even come close.  I blame it completely on the gimmicky Wii shit.
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« Reply #16 on: March 23, 2012, 09:19:07 AM »

And not partially on Fi? Seriously, if you strip out Motion control she'd be THE number one reason people quit.
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GrimReality
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« Reply #17 on: March 23, 2012, 09:57:26 AM »

And not partially on Fi? Seriously, if you strip out Motion control she'd be THE number one reason people quit.
Yup. There was a couple times where I just stopped and wondered what the hell I was doing playing this. Why deal with this idiotic nonsense. No other game out there that I know of has such a useless and annoying "guide" that interjects itself every 5 minutes to inform you about ridiculously obvious things.
"There is a 99% probability that you will completely detest me after only an hour of game time"
ending stuff:
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I get the feeling that the final exchange between Link and Fi was supposed to be some sad, emotional affair. Too bad that totally didn't work. They spent more time with Fi than with Zelda! I expected a bit more emotion between Link and Zelda, but got nothing. Not even a hug, let alone a kiss. Weak.
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« Reply #18 on: March 23, 2012, 11:22:14 AM »

I hated that final scene with Fi.  Like you said, the music, the tone, her words, it sounded like it was supposed to mean something... but came off as me wanting to go "alright, gtfo, it's fine, thanks for nothing". 
Midna on the other hand... the amount of shit you and her went through made her farewell that much bigger a deal.

Fi. I was hoping there was going to be some scene about her where she shed the robot-act.  But... nah.  Worst part of her as a guide, she doesn't have the information from the get-go, and told you a bunch of other useless shit ("rumours"? wtf is this, People Magazine?).  There was no big moment you got to see anything other than what you saw the first 10 minutes.  A damn shame, I thought she had a lot of potential....

Quote
I do agree with many on this though: Demise was baller looking.  It was a cool looking final boss fight.

I thought the game hit quite a strive with narrative in Twilight Princess.  I feel like a bit of that was lost here with just about everyone except awesome Groose scenes.  He was the only character I can really look back at fondly.  =/

...I'm done.

  I'm glad peeps here realize it, though.  I said Skyward Sucks to a co-worker who has the biggest hard-on for OoT, and like many others, they can't really pin WHY they liked Skyward Sword, more they're just willing to say "It was good!".  The game had fun "elements", but ultimately wasn't too exciting to play. 

Good tracks IMO though (besides the Ballad of the Goddess; which ultimately earns a full letter-grade bump-up for being Zelda's Lullaby in reverse and making it work... how lucky for Koji Kondo, saves a lot of time thinking a new piece: N64 ver backwards)
Bamboo Isle
Zelda theme's that isn't her Lullaby
Whenever the fuck this track was used
Fi's theme was damned nice, I thought.  Reminded me of Thomas Newman shit.
Lanayru...err, in the past.
This one is my favorite, though.  Simple and pretty.

A major kudos, even though I generally didn't like this game, I loved almost eveeerryy moment of the Water Temple in this game.  Swimming was kept to a minimum (Farore flooded made up for that in bullshit).  The Buddhist theme and the boss killed by a better sword than (whoops) the Master Sword was a really great experience.

That...and Gorons.  I always appreciate them though.  They're so awesome.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2012, 11:43:40 AM by Dice » Logged

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GrimReality
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« Reply #19 on: March 23, 2012, 04:57:11 PM »

No one has mentioned the ultra annoying "silent realm". GOD, I hated those areas. Took me awhile to figure each one out. Especially the last one.

The last boss WAS pretty darn cool, though.
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I like that he actually chatted with you a bit. He even showed respect upon being defeated. I had to check gamefaqs about the second half of the battle, though. I had no clue that I had to raise my sword up and collect lightning power to hurt him. Even after knowing that it still took me numerous tries to beat him. Tough mofo.

The thing that "saved" the game for me was the dungeons. I like how well designed they were, and that they weren't crazy long.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2012, 08:45:37 PM by GrimReality » Logged

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« Reply #20 on: March 23, 2012, 05:59:35 PM »

The Lanayru Mining Facility was kind of too long.
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« Reply #21 on: March 23, 2012, 06:14:28 PM »

No one has mentioned the ultra annoying "silent realm", GOD, I hated those areas. Took me awhile to figure each one out. Especially the last one.

The last boss WAS pretty darn cool, though.
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I like that he actually chatted with you a bit. He even showed respect upon being defeated. I had to check gamefaqs about the second half of the battle, though. I had no clue that I had to raise my sword up and collect lightning power to hurt him. Even after knowing that it still took me numerous tries to beat him. Tough mofo.

The thing that "saved" the game for me was the dungeons. I like how well designed they were, and that they weren't crazy long.

That was one of the things I liked best about that boss fight. You could definitely fight and beat him without using that technique (though you really need the Hyilan Shield or an ass load of Shield+ Potions do really get away with that). Hell of a lot better than ST's final boss fights which consisted entirely of figure out the gimmick seven times in a row (and many of them were terrible gimmicks to begin with, fucking Pan Flute).
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« Reply #22 on: March 24, 2012, 05:12:11 PM »

I would have to say no, considering I just traded it in towards Kid Icarus Rising without even beating it. I really wanted to like it, but I found myself bored of it after the second dungeon.
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« Reply #23 on: March 24, 2012, 07:57:48 PM »

I am a nut-case completionist and strange as it may be, I have not finished a Zelda since the OoT. A Link to the Past was my favorite but something happened to my tastes thereafter and I never was really able to "get into" a Zelda title the same way ever since...  I gave Twilight Princess a sincere effort but it also fell off my radar long before completion...

I don't know why the Zelda franchise doesn't do it for me.... but it just doesn't....
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« Reply #24 on: March 24, 2012, 11:41:59 PM »

Twilight Princess had it's share of problems, but in terms of gestalt, I think it was my favorite Zelda, or at least my favorite of the three 3D zeldas I've played (There's no real good way to play MM without a real N64, apparently, and I'm worried about save batteries dying).

Also I like that Midna was basically Navi only instead of being 'helpful' and pointing out obvious things, she'd... still point them out but note how obvious they were and berate you for not getting it yourself while being oddly sexy for a satanic sock puppet.

LttP was the only Zelda I've played that I outright disliked, though, and everything it did was done better by the GB/GBC zeldas.

(My favorite Zelda game is actually Landstalker).
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« Reply #25 on: March 25, 2012, 12:04:45 AM »

I am a nut-case completionist and strange as it may be, I have not finished a Zelda since the OoT. A Link to the Past was my favorite but something happened to my tastes thereafter and I never was really able to "get into" a Zelda title the same way ever since...  I gave Twilight Princess a sincere effort but it also fell off my radar long before completion...

I don't know why the Zelda franchise doesn't do it for me.... but it just doesn't....

Could be something lost in translation between 2D and 3D. I know that the series has moved quite a distance away from the openendedness that the early games thrived upon. Majora's Mask had a somewhat openendedness when it came to sidequests and such but having to access Hyrule or whatever one piece at a time really diminished that sense of accomplishment when you found something that you could get to or something that you need to come back to later on.

Kinda like the difference between Super Metroid and Metroid Fusion: One lets you try to figure out how to proceed to the next part of the game and hides items that, even if you can't get to them now, they'll be there for you to pick up the next time you're in the neighborhood; the other constantly pushes you forward towards a goal, never letting you look back, purely for the sake of the narrative.

Much in the same way guys like the Owl, Navi, Tatl, the Mako Trees, KotRL, Elzo, Minda, and Fi are constantly pushing you forward trying to keep you on track and not letting you proceed at your own pace through a large and fairly open overworld. Of course if you made a game like this today people are probably going to complain about needing to look up GameFAQs or being too unintuitive instead of enjoying what the game is trying to let you do. It feels like games these days try to make players feel like they achieved something without making them work for it at all. At the very least the Zelda games over the last decade are incredibility guilty of this.
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« Reply #26 on: March 25, 2012, 01:00:30 AM »

Quote
I know that the series has moved quite a distance away from the openendedness that the early games thrived upon.

Actually, dungeon order's been pretty linear for all of the games after LttP. They're still open ended in that you can kind of piss off and explore the world at your own leisure -- which was true for the 3D games I played, after an initial, more linear portion that was maybe about 1/4 of the game -- but the dungeon order was either fairly rigid or you could sequence break but it wasn't really intended or optimal. And generally, zelda sidequests are always exploring for heart increases, or getting upgrades to you equipment. Which, again, never changed.
« Last Edit: March 25, 2012, 01:02:04 AM by MeshGearFox » Logged

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« Reply #27 on: March 25, 2012, 04:47:59 AM »

Zelda for the CDI is the best Zelda ever!

Seriously though, "Good" can be fairly universal, "Best" is purely a matter of personal taste. For instance, I like it more than OoT, which would probably have a lot of people foaming at the mouth, if I said it on a Zelda forum.
« Last Edit: March 25, 2012, 04:55:22 AM by Maxximum » Logged

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« Reply #28 on: March 25, 2012, 04:56:22 AM »

Which CD-i Zelda? The one where you've got to bomb some Dodongos, the one where you rip out that heart "Good!", or the one with the cosplayer and the Renaissance festival rejects?


Quote
I know that the series has moved quite a distance away from the openendedness that the early games thrived upon.

Actually, dungeon order's been pretty linear for all of the games after LttP. They're still open ended in that you can kind of piss off and explore the world at your own leisure -- which was true for the 3D games I played, after an initial, more linear portion that was maybe about 1/4 of the game -- but the dungeon order was either fairly rigid or you could sequence break but it wasn't really intended or optimal. And generally, zelda sidequests are always exploring for heart increases, or getting upgrades to you equipment. Which, again, never changed.


That's true, but I think what I was getting at was the perceived value of the pickup diminishing over time.

In the Original you had a total of 16 hearts and outside of random heart drops or the occasional fairy only up to two doses of potion to bring that back during a dungeon run. Meanwhile you eventually started facing down stuff like Darknuts and Wizrobes that could take a full heart per hit with the Blue Ring on and you could wind up getting swarmed due to bad luck or an untimely tag from a Bubble left you swordless. In this game each heart is worth a lot (especially since you can't upgrade your main weapon until you have either 5 or 12 heart containers depending on the sword). ALttP is quite a bit easier than 'enemy turned into you or started spamming magic, you're probably going to eat a hit now' and more generous with its health upgrades but at the same token things generally hit harder and especially once you hit the Dark World and now everything's taking off at least a full heart if not 2 or 3 per hit suddenly 10 hearts is a lot more valuable than 6 or 7 hearts. Granted you had bottles and fairies (but they weren't full heals) in this game but until you got the mail upgrades near the end you basically had to rely on the volume of your total health as your measure of defensive growth.

Whereas you have the 3D games where suddenly, outside of the occasional outlier like Iron Knuckles, nothing hit you for more than a full heart and with 20 hearts and bottles that can hold free full heal fairies (and for the N64 games a half-damage upgrade) suddenly all those pieces of heart don't seem to matter all that much after your first or second container to get you out of your starting 3 hearts faster. Enemies and challenges don't scale well at all for most of these games and only recently with games like TP and SS have enemies even tried to keep up while nerfing the power of potions and fairies.

Likewise where and how you've assembled your inventory has changed over the years as well. In the Original you had to find or buy a sizable portion of your inventory outside of dungeons (Blue Ring, Magical Shield, Power Bracelet, Letter, Blue Candle, Wooden Arrows, Bombs, White and Magical Swords, and Potions), and dungeons themselves sometimes had more than one item (First Quest had Levels 1, 5, 7, 8, & 9 and Second Quest had Levels 4, 8, & 9). In ALttP where they toned down dungeon items to one per dungeon there were still quite a number of optional items to be found outside of dungeons (like the Bombos Medallion, the Bug-Catching Net, the Magic Boomerang, the Red Shield, the Tempered and Golden Swords, the Magic Cape, the Cane of Bryna, the Mushroom and the Magic Powder, Bombs and their and Arrow expansions, a Magic Meter expansion, and Bottles). OoT was still pretty good about optional items as well (with the Ice Arrows, two of the three Spells and two of the other three fairy upgrades, Deku Nuts and their and Seed and Stick expansions, Bomb Bag and Arrow Quiver expansions too, Beans, the Golden Scale, the Hylian Shield, the Giant's Knife and Biggoron's Sword, the Wallet expansions and the Stone of Agony, three of the Bottles, the Tunics, the Mask of Truth and other assorted masks, Epona, her song, the Sun Song, and the Cow I guess).

Around MM is where optional items start to phase out in favor of heart pieces and rupees due to the pre dungeon item needed to enter the dungeon (leaving the wallet, bomb bag, and arrow quiver expansions, Bombchus, Deku Nuts, five out of six bottles, all but the first Great Fairy upgrades, the Razor and Gilded Swords, the Bombers' Notebook, the Song of Soaring, and 18 out of 24 masks or 17 out of 24 masks and the Bomb Bag) although the masks were a fair tradeoff at this point. WW on the other hand lets you ignore (the Tingle Tuner, the Picto Box and its upgrade, the wallet, bomb, arrow, and magic meter expansions, the upgraded spin attack, the Hero's Charm, the Magic Armor, three of the bottles, and perhaps the Song of Passing, the Bait Bag, and that utterly broken Elixir Soup, plus 51 out of 60 charts and that stupid Nintendo Gallery).


The tl;dr of this :goonsay: post is that I just feel like exploration in Zelda games have been offering diminishing returns over time.
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« Reply #29 on: March 25, 2012, 04:58:58 AM »

Which CD-i Zelda? The one where you've got to bomb some Dodongos, the one where you rip out that heart "Good!", or the one with the cosplayer and the Renaissance festival rejects?

All of them, its impossible to pick just one.
« Last Edit: March 25, 2012, 05:00:44 AM by Maxximum » Logged

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