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Subject: Persona 3: FES
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Author Topic: The Suikoden games (opinion thread)  (Read 1680 times)
LINK398
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« on: March 31, 2012, 12:29:34 AM »

Currently I have Suikoden 1,3,4,5 but I haven't completed any of them and actually haven't even played 3 or 4 yet. (only reason I got 4 was so that I would have the complete main series if I decided to get 2). Anyway most people say the 2nd game is the best followed by the 1st and the 5th was a comeback with the 4th game in the series being the worst. I don't know much about 3 but anyway Why is this? I would like to read some opinions on why people think which games are best from best to worst order and why (without spoilers) that is. From things that are unique to RPG's like the first game having a base where all the people who joined the liberation army chill. (I thought that was really cool and unique building an army and also not all characters fight some are just support characters. Another example could possibly the whole rune system. Just things in each game that gamers felt the developers made good and original choices compared to others that might have been just down right dumb. Besides everyones opinions on the games some sample questions could be why is the 4th game the worst? Why do people consider the 5th game a comeback and so on and so forth. Please make the responses neat and in this format

Suikoden: reasons explaining why liked the game and what made it stand out and different compared to the others

Suikoden II: Same as above

Suikoden III: Same as above

Suikoden IV: Same as above

Suikoden V: Same as above

PS: Try not and get to in depth story wise and also please list favorite first and go down from their also main games only not side stories or any games that aren't numbered

Really interested in reading some of these responses thanks

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Aeolus
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« Reply #1 on: March 31, 2012, 03:37:08 AM »

We do happen to have a Suikoden general discussion thread here. But I guess it's probably full of spoilers so I'll bite.

That said, the biggest reason why people are fans of these games is the fact that they are were all in one world with noteworthy events from previous games having an effect in later games or having characters from one game show up in another. The first game is basically just that. It came up with the idea of having you assemble a team out of 108 different characters and implemented it in a way that actually worked. Meanwhile the plot was basically limited to the scope of a kingdom in the midst of political turmoil and was very loosely based (or more likely heavily inspired by) on the themes and setting of the classic Chinese novel of the same name. The game itself is fairly straight forward and was a breath of fresh air compared to it's contemporaries. The second game basically takes what Suki1 started and ran with it. Now you had a much more structured plot, more effort put into the characters (with returning characters carrying ever greater weight for those who were familiar with the previous game), and more options and things to do beyond the main story (from growing a garden, to raising livestock, and from pursing a criminal, to competing in Iron Chef style cookoffs). Though unfortunately the game was plagued with bugs and a weak translation plus the war battles were awful games of chance rather than the rock/paper/scissors affair that the first game employed. The third game unfortunately was both where the series tries to make the transition to 3D with passable results and more damning a couple of major changes to the gameplay system that generally made things worse than better. Most noticeable was the change from having six individual party members comprising your battle party you had three sets of two as well as having battles take place in a Lunar style battle arena where your party members are tripping over each other and getting in each other's way and most area of effect attack rune magic (i.e. Fire Magic) suffer from friendly fire. Meanwhile skills were also introduced to expand character's reporte but it also meant having to grind everybody you wanted to use to acquire the skills you needed to remain competent. Also the game threw a metric fuck ton of unwinnable fights in your general direction. The "Trinity Sight" system lead to not only a fairly irrelevant Tenkai star but a rather late home castle, and ironically enough a terrible choice in who you wanted to nerf with main character status since the game's True Rune sucks and none of the three candidates want anything to do with it. Also this was the game where the series director/main writer left leaving only his notes on how things are supposed to go behind. I haven't played 4, Tactics, or 5 yet.
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« Reply #2 on: March 31, 2012, 03:57:15 AM »

I'm too tired to make a lengthy reply but I will quickly say that the only game I didn't really enjoy was S4.

The rest are all worth playing.

Aeolus is right. There's something compelling about a series where the world in connected and time actually passes, because I can't think of many other series where it's done other than maybe Shadow Hearts.

I mean the bare bones of each game is the same in that you get sent off and have to recruit 108 stars to overthrow some jerk, but the way each game is executed makes them compelling.
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« Reply #3 on: March 31, 2012, 03:58:49 AM »

It's executed well simply because the developers never glorified the war or took a stupid way out, unlike most other JRPGs, where you have this war but then both sides stop and join together to combat a bigger, supernatural threat.
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« Reply #4 on: March 31, 2012, 04:04:34 AM »

That's a good point actually.

It does tend to avoid a lot of cliches that other JRPGs fall into.
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Eusis
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« Reply #5 on: March 31, 2012, 04:08:03 AM »

It DOES seem like it was headed in that direction, but man. If you're going to do it it may as well be series encompassing, especially since no one will take it seriously happening every other week.
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« Reply #6 on: March 31, 2012, 04:14:29 AM »

The overarching plot seemed to be heading that way.

It seemed to me that they wanted to focus on different true runes for each entry (Soul Eater/Emperor for I, Rune of Beginning/Beast for II, the five elements for III, Punishment/Forgiveness for IV, and Sun/Dawn/Dusk for V) before delving into the Suikoden world's origins and final destiny, but never realized it because of corporate bullshit.

Ah, what could have been. I want to review the new Suikoden for the site but I don't even want to play it anymore.
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« Reply #7 on: March 31, 2012, 05:34:37 AM »

combat a bigger, supernatural threat

That actually does sort-of happen in a couple of the games, but as far as I can remember it's more of a FF9-style "well that was out of nowhere" kinda thing. The conflicts between any human characters are actually resolved before any supernatural threat comes along.
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Aeolus
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« Reply #8 on: March 31, 2012, 10:38:46 AM »

It's executed well simply because the developers never glorified the war or took a stupid way out, unlike most other JRPGs, where you have this war but then both sides stop and join together to combat a bigger, supernatural threat.

That another point to the series credit as well. Outside of the occasional True Rune bullshit nobody's this supernatural DBZ reject that most JRPGs tend to both have and make your team into. It's basically just a bunch of people banding a nation together to kick ass on whatever whatever warmonger is stirring trouble at the moment.

Hell, even eliminating the main antagonist isn't always enough to wrap up a conflict. Often times you'll just have some other asshole roll up and take over at that point and it isn't until you win the war that the conflict is resolved.
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« Reply #9 on: March 31, 2012, 11:02:31 AM »

I found the True Runes thing really interesting too. In a lot of jRPGs, the gods are either evil or ineffectual or fake. In Suikoden, the True Runes just do their own thing and don't seem to even have a sense of morality.

And when a supernatural threat shows up, its usually linked to one of the Runes. Except for that tree thing in Suikoden 4.
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« Reply #10 on: March 31, 2012, 11:57:46 AM »

Didn't like what I played of S1. It was incredibly easy and you pretty much just bash auto-battle to win. Maybe it got harder later on. No idea.
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« Reply #11 on: March 31, 2012, 12:04:39 PM »

Please make the responses neat and in this format

Suikoden: reasons explaining why liked the game and what made it stand out and different compared to the others

Suikoden II: Same as above

Suikoden III: Same as above

Suikoden IV: Same as above

Suikoden V: Same as above


You can't be serious...
Just play the damn games and decide for yourself.
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« Reply #12 on: August 01, 2012, 11:07:04 PM »

Suikoden I:

This game felt totaly original to me whe I first played it. They really tried to make your standard, traditional JRPG with a difference. The sheer amount of characters was really different for me. The way in which that fell in line with the story, and the depth of character interaction, felt to me what was really needed in RPG's. They really played on the deeper aspect of storylines within games and the superb writing was a real stand out for me. Even when the story was rushed or too short, you always felt there was more 'behind the scenes' which really got your imagination fired up. I loved the customisation i.e. naming your castle, this made me feel more involved than I had in previous RPG games. Also, the amazing soundtack <3

You were left feeling that the series had (and still does!) bags of potential.


Suikoden II:

Suikoden II capatalised on this potential. It expanded on its predeccessor in every way possible. Many fans consider it to be a 'perfect game'. Need I say anymore?


Suikoden III:

What a game. I'm actualy replaying this right now. I only compelted it once before, unlike the first two which I completed numerous times. I feel that Suikoden III was actualy really ahead of its time. Although I didn't like the buddy system, I got the idea. It could have worked with a few tweaks. I liked that it was the first Suikoden game that levelling up your characters actualy had a difference on the major war battles. Many people did not like the Trinity System but I think its really uniqe. I dont like seeing the same scenes over and over again, on my second playthrough, however. Again, with a few tweaks I think the Trinity Sight System could have been better. The thing I like most is the sheer volume of dialouge and storyline. Overall, I think SIII is a hidden gem and slightly revolutionary. If JRPGs are to ever make a comeback, they can take a leaf out of this book and try somethign different.

When I first played SIII, I felt it was too different and that Murayama was trying too hard to change things and/or come up with somethign new and 'cool'. Now, looking back realising we only had 3 of the Suikoden games made by Murayama, I am happy he made these changes and can truly appreciate Suikoden III for the ahead-of-its-time masterpiece that I perceive it to be.


Suikoden IV:

Yeah ..this one lol Alot of fans hatde this game and, while I was gravely dissapointed with it at first, I cannot deny that fell under its spell. I think its a great game. I like it. I like the characters and the setting. It was different. And in a good way. Yeah alot of the differences are bad too. But I thought it felt quite unique. The standout for me was how, despite its flaws, it somehow managed retain the Suikoden feel but in an entirely different setting and style.The only major draw back for me was the total lack of depth in the story. But I felt Suikoden Tactics made up for this.

Many people say that a good game shouldn't need another game to make it good. I disagree. I think this is neccessary for some gaming experiences. I think Suikoden IV is one of these experiences. Both of these games compliment eachother really well and it makes quite a deep experience playing through the both at the same time and delving into its lore.


Suikoden V:

Yay! A return to a more traditional Suikoden! ^^

Actualy, I disliked this more than IV. I thought it tried too hard to be like Suikoden II. Some of the stroy point and dialouge was, to me, either poor or simply ripping off SII. On the one hand, its great that the developers clearly made a concerted effort to try and make Suikoden V closer to the original games. But on the other hand this would ensure that the game would always be compared to SII ...where it would inevitably fail. I think the writing was just not up to the calibre of Murayama. This is why the story was so basic in SIV - they did not want to take any risks lacking Murayamas prowess. Something the SIV team were shot down for. But they took the risk with SV. In my opinion, they kinda failed. But they should be applauded for taking the risk. Kinda a no win situaion for them. But I would be more than happy with games like SV if it meant the continuation of the series.

I do not think there is anything that truly stand out for SV for me. I think it felt like just another traditional JRPG and not exactly a unique Suikoden. Don't take that as truly dislikingthe game though. Even with a new team, they managed to pull off a decent story, good characters, great artwork and a great soundtrack. Yeah, I'd buy that again for SVI :)
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Aeolus
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« Reply #13 on: August 02, 2012, 12:21:10 AM »

Why must you keep bumping Suikoden topics?

Also I disliked the war battles mechanic in Suki III due to the fact that it still boiled down to random chance determining whether you won or lost somebody, except now with tons of mandatory grinding as well.

Also also, I didn't like IV because it requires Tactics to be anywhere near the level of the other games. On its own it was a rushed, halfassed, piece of crap with an ocean that can die in a fire.
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« Reply #14 on: August 02, 2012, 12:24:33 AM »

Gave him a temp ban over it. If you're called out on it in another thread maybe you should reconsider bumping every topic you could quickly find on the subject!

And this probably doesn't really need to stick around either.
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