disappointed of new generation rpgs.....

[Akanbe-]

As it has been said many times before, handhelds!


Radiant Historia might be up your alley.

Indeed, handhelds are the way to go this generation for Japanese RPGs.  Trails in the Sky, Radiant Historia, Tactics Ogre, Persona 2 Innocent Sin, etc.  Good stuff on em.

[Der Jermeister]

Nostalgia is a seductive liar.
-George Ball

[Maxximum]

You don't like new jRPGs and want to cry about it? Join the club and get in line.

Nostalgia is a seductive liar.
-George Ball

Id agree with that statement, if it wasn't for the fact that I go back to old games quite often and they pretty much wipe the floor with most modern jRPGs.

I hope Japanese devs take notice of Xenoblades success. I know there are a few potentially good handheld titles too, but I haven't played them and cant really make any judgement. From what I've seen though, the popular ones look as far away from "modern" as FFXIII does from "classic".

[MeshGearFox]

I haven't played anything post-PS2, but I recall SNSE RPGs being A) Anime as hell. B) Glitchy as hell.

(Also modern JRPGs are cute? I thought the trend was towards emo. Am I missing something?)



^-- Modern JRPG right there btw

[Alisha]

i think one of the reasons for the decrease is the amount of rpg's that died during the ps2 era.
wild arms,shadow hearts,xenosaga

[Eusis]

Id agree with that statement, if it wasn't for the fact that I go back to old games quite often and they pretty much wipe the floor with most modern jRPGs.

Yeah, it's a statement I'd keep in mind rather than treating as THE LAW. It's likely a lot of those older games may not be as great as you remember as a kid, but there's still a good chance they're enjoyable games in their own right. I know FFIV's story was crap now though, and likely would feel similarly about a lot of stories I liked when held up to the wider world of literature/film, but some are still fun in that regard, and a lot can still be fun games period.

[Klyde Chroma]

I'd have to agree that the RPG's of yesteryear are typically stronger in some regards then alot of the current gen stuff....

Since FFIV was just brought up, I will cite it as an example... First off, there is a major difference in storytelling... And I personally can't honestly say that some older stories "suck" so much as they just were not fleshed out to the point they are now. Storytelling and guidance to the player delieverred through narrative was limmitted and left A LOT MORE up to the players imagination whilst still being linear at the end of the day. You'll NEVER see this again, as it  just is not accaptable by the current gen's standards... so if you dig the harsh aspect of not having everything spelled out for you, you'll be very hard pressed to ever experience that again... that being said, I can't honestly say plots unraveling in such a way made for bad storytelling. I just got to the end of FFIV and personally loved the pacing and "fill in the blank-esque" feeling I got from it.. it actually assisted with immersion for me.

Next up gameplay.... I feel a greater emphasis was placed on difficulty being executed in a whole different way in the past. Once again lets look at ff4.... you needed to derive particular strategies using particular status effects to make it through some fights without a game over... even being well grinded into a power house of a team wouldn't save you if you didn't know to cast reflect on some bosses, stop on some enemies, et cetera.... current gen RPG's seem forgiving to me in the sense that typically you strong arm your way through a great deal without having to think much... while playing strategically helps nowadays, there is more then one way to slay the dragon so to speak.... In the past, there was one way to slay the dragon and if your time bar was on active you'd best figure it out quick or you've got a game over on your hands..... Oh and by the way, no save points convenients placed every five minutes meant the possibility of death was a real grim one.... Couple these facts togeather and you are forced to think a little, otherwise your gonna have to re-trek your way through some heavy random encounters to get another crack at slaying the beast... this all translated to higher level of tension and thus greater reward for success via gameplay. Some may call difficulties imposed in this fashion cheap, I personally can't entirely disagree but I CAN certainly say I liked it alot.... Current gen RPG's rarely yield that same degree of stress and reward for me, plain and simple.

Graphics and soundtracks, while obviously technically better in the current gen, are more subjective aspects of gaming.... in other words, if you dig sprites, SD characters, hand drawn stuff et cetera.... your probably going to appreciate more older titles visuals to the newer fair..... I for one LOVE 16-32 bit sprites!

Bottom line is the evolution of hardware and demographic in the world of gaming has so drastically impacted the execution of nearly everything that is the JRPG that I'd swear they were completely different genres at this point.... do I love them both? Yes.... but fact is, if I want a classic RPG experience of yesteryear, I'm not gonna quell that thirst with a current gen RPG..... unless it is a re-release of course.....

Just my two (obviously bias) cents on the subject....

[MeshGearFox]

@ Save points: I have considerably more limited time because I am a (socially retarded manchild of an) adult yuppie with a job*. If I can't save fairly frequently, I'll be less prone to play a game just because of time constraints. If I have to repeat stuff because I lost and hadn't saved, I'm going to get bored very, very quickly, because repetition isn't fun.

@ FFIV's difficulty: Hardtype was actually pretty much a pure grindfest with no room for strategy. I only played the PSX port, so I'm think that this MIGHT be why I am far, far less fond of the game than everyone else is. Actually this kind of dovetails nicely into a point I was going to make in the unpopular opinions thread over on general.

@ Leaving stuff up to the player's imagination: I generally agree that this is a good thing, however I don't see any generational trends towards this, and it's on more of a per-series/per-developer basis. Although in FFIV's case I don't think it was leaving stuff up to the player's imagination so much as it just didn't really have that much going on. Chrono Trigger's a better example of not over-explaining stuff. Secret of Mana's also a better example in terms of how it /implies/ all this weird apocalyptic shit without ever DIRECTLY saying it.

But I mean, as I said -- this is more of a per-company thing. Tales games do, and always have, explain everything. Megaten games, on the other hand, do not, and never have, explained everything. From my understanding the Dark Souls games are also pretty implying-but-not-directly-stating, which is par for course for Agetec's stuff.

[Fyle]

Thats what MODs are for.

Find someone who was dissapointed in the same things that you were and changed them with a MOD.

Also, be straight with yourself on the nostalgia factor. I thought certain games were the BEST ever because of the feel I got at the time I played them and that feeling stuck with me. The fact is games have only been improving.

I feel something has been "lost" myself, but, compared to what has been gained graphically, AI wise and volume wise (shear choice thats out there now) I'll gladly say that was then and this is now.

Not sure if that exaclty anwsers the original post.... damn my job is boring.

[Eusis]

I do feel every so often there really IS the kind of game that's amazing and simply is not topped, at least in its type. Newer Zelda games have been varying degrees of disappointment for me (Twilight Princess the mildest, Phantom Hourglass the most extreme), and Super Metroid is rarely matched for its type of game. But then you have games like FFIV that are still fun and breezy to go through, but aren't exactly fine literature even by video game standards, and are pretty simplistic as RPGs.

[PotRoast]

I do feel disappointed with today's RPGs. I still have fun playing them, but I don't get wowed as often like I did for the SNES, PSX, or PS2. To put it simply, the 2nd or 3rd tier quality RPGs for those systems, the kind that are still fun, is the best today has to offer. I suppose this isn't a big deal if you like Western made RPGs since I feel like their quality almost never elevated itself out of 2nd or 3rd tier and they're still plugging along today. But for RPGs of Japanese origin, they really have taken a big hit.

[hell_snake]

I do feel disappointed with today's RPGs. I still have fun playing them, but I don't get wowed as often like I did for the SNES, PSX, or PS2. To put it simply, the 2nd or 3rd tier quality RPGs for those systems, the kind that are still fun, is the best today has to offer. I suppose this isn't a big deal if you like Western made RPGs since I feel like their quality almost never elevated itself out of 2nd or 3rd tier and they're still plugging along today. But for RPGs of Japanese origin, they really have taken a big hit.

Not sure I agree with what you have to say regarding Western RPGs, but the rest I can't argue against. JRPG-wise, this gen was a huge step down from the previous 2. And even though a few gems of the past few years can be found on handhelds, it says a lot about the state of the genre that developers are retreating to that lower-budget/less-risky market for the more innovative projects. And we haven't got a single SMT title for current gen home consoles yet...

But then again, the Souls games are better than most JRPGs I played ever. Truly the genre's saving grace for this gen.

[Prime Mover]

I gotta say, I think FFIV get's too much love these days. Certainly, for its time, it elevated RPGs to a new level. But I would never want anyone to create a new game like that. Since then, other games have elevated the genre a dozen times above FFIV, namely FFVI. The RPGs prior to FFIV are really basic and childish... FFIV tweaked and grew things just a little bit, to be the best RPG of its day. But by today's standards, I think FFIV just doesn't cut it. Maybe the fact that it had a plot and characters was good enough for its day, but the plot and characters that are there are pretty terrible. All the characters are absolute stock archetypes: the hero knight, the damsel in distress, the friend/nemesis, the bratty token children. I have nothing against archetypes, but when they're portrayed as generic and 2-dimensional as FFIV has them, it's just no good.

The plot is also pretty terrible: Moon Men trying to take over earth by posing as it's strongest leader. I mean, that's it, there it is. Every character who dies gets resurrected, even if their death is honorable and self-sacrificing.

Look, the core plot of most RPGs, even modern RPGs, is pretty basic and often laughable, but usually what makes it is it's nuances and delivery. FFIV had no nuance. It took cliche after cliche, and fed them to you straight.

Don't get me wrong, when I first turned on FFIV back in 1992, I was blown away. But games were crap back then, just coming out of the dark ages, so it was easy to be amazed. But I find FFIV to be pretty unplayable today.

[Dice]

I always found Sailor Moon's plot hilarious for that as well.  Sailor Moon is a "princess OF the Moon"... that shit is just a big, boring rock in the sky that happens to look pretty from here at night. x)

I think FFV gets too little love.  I thought it did battles better than 1-4, and maybe even 6.

I thought FF4 DS was a good touch, the Augment thing was a great addition, but only to go a step back with After Years.  Definitely in trying to cram in more plot than was necessary (though Golbez looked absolutely balls-deep-awesome).

[Prime Mover]

I think FFV gets too little love.  I thought it did battles better than 1-4, and maybe even 6.

I thought FF4 DS was a good touch, the Augment thing was a great addition, but only to go a step back with After Years.  Definitely in trying to cram in more plot than was necessary (though Golbez looked absolutely balls-deep-awesome).

Totally agree on everything. FFV may have had a terrible plot (but not really any worse than FFIVs), but it gave us one of the best skill systems of all time. It also has great atmosphere and locales. Honestly, I think it's everything that FFIV was and more. AND it doesn't have endless, needless resurrections. People die, and they stay dead.

If people lauded it as much as FFIV, I'd probably complain too, but people hate on that game like nothing else, and it just doesn't deserve it.