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GrimReality
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« Reply #15 on: June 22, 2012, 02:48:44 PM »

Ash, I know that wasn't really what you meant, but I used it to branch out the conversation.
Still, my point is that there are certain people who CAN'T take a stand. Who will NEVER be able to fight back. They are simply not those kind of people. The one time I turned around and talked back to the kid on the bus who was bothering me I got laughed at. It didn't solve anything. I agree that it would be awesome to be able to turn the tables on your bully, and somehow make them stop. I'm sure there are some kids/people who are able to do this. But there will always be a segment who just don't have it in them. They need, and should receive, help from others. To my detriment, I don't recall ever talking to my parents about my bullying problems. Most likely because my dad was a bit if a bully himself and would tell me just to deal with it. My mom was just too sweet, and would probably make matters worse. I still should have said something, though. I felt so damn alone.
I wished for so many kids to be dead back then. This thread sucks for bringing it all back. It also rocks, because it's a conversation that needs to be had.
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Starmongoose
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« Reply #16 on: June 22, 2012, 03:03:57 PM »

My parents always, always tried to make me fight my bullies. I was coached by my dad endlessly about sticking up for myself, they wanted me to kick those kids asses. Some people, as Grim says, just don't have it in them, like me. I've always been a pacifist, it's just my personality type. (Have I told the story of when my mother almost murdered a kid who punched me in the face because I kicked away the football he had been kicking at my back?)

It's maybe also worth pointing out that some kids get the unfortunate end of the stick where it's not just a couple of bullies, it can be a large number of people, all being assholes separately, not necessarily working as a group to ruin this persons life.  So when this kid does try and stick up for himself, he doesn't get respect from the others, he's even more alienated because they punched someone who is far more popular than themselves.  I know because I experienced it, I did the small thing of kicking away the kid's football that he was bouncing off my back while his friends laughed, and got punched for it, while people around me laughed at me and cheered that other kid on.

Bullying sucks, and there really isn't a solution for every victim of it. Sometimes all the victim can do is survive long enough to see the light at the end of the tunnel, then try their hardest heal the emotional scars and turn that into something positive. I'll never support an idea where a victim is getting bullied because they aren't trying hard enough to stop it.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2012, 03:05:51 PM by Starmongoose » Logged

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Yoda
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« Reply #17 on: June 22, 2012, 06:25:24 PM »

Everyone has faced bullying at some point in their childhood. I was a goofy kid w/ cokebottle glasses and a bad haircut, you bet your ass I got picked on here and there. I don't remember feeling like I was the sole target, and I know I picked on a few kids as well.

The worst I ever got was in 7th grade. There was the annoying kid (name Osama of all names lol) that sat behind me in social studies. He'd kid my desk endlessly and when he saw that that bothered me he'd slap my neck when the teacher wasn't looking. I slugged him once but then he got everyone to think I was some oddball. Well from then on I knew I couldn't win so I'd just sit there, and let him slap my neck. Well then I became a bigger weirdo in everyone's eyes because I thought I was tough or something. Not sure how I came out on that situation because I couldn't fight the kid. He was one of like 4 islamic kids in our class and the other ones were his "toughs"  I think I befriended a kid that was in our class that was held back a couple of years. He was actually old enough to be able to drive to Jr high if he had a license lol.
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Agent D.
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« Reply #18 on: June 22, 2012, 07:20:38 PM »

I don't think anyone here was ever labeled "the big kid". My parents pleaded with me not to fight bullies. They were always afraid of what I would do or what lawsuit I would get for extensive injuries. Seriously, until I was in 7th grade, I was told never to fight back. Ignore them, walk away, tell a teacher, but never fight back. I seriously think both my parents feared I'd kill someone. Bullies love nothing more than a target who gets angry but does nothing, and that's exactly what I did most of the time. When I popped, the teasing and bullying generally stopped for a couple weeks. Course, then I'd have to see the stupid counselor to better "control" my anger issues.

Am I the only one who grew up like this?
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« Reply #19 on: June 22, 2012, 07:29:21 PM »

My dad grew up hardscrabbled on the chicago's southside in the 50s. he was a tough kid and a bad one at that. my brother was a jock kind of kid and mr. popular. i'm not the black sheep or anything but didn't really fit the mold from them. they taught me to win people over and to watch your mouth and actions. In general I say I talked or smarted my way out of fights/bullies. There was only a few times in school when I resorted to violence. My favorite was this one time a kid (locker was right next to mine) was making fun of me. I snapped, grabbed his head and slammed it in the locker a few times. He left me alone after that. I know that sounds bad but he was a chubby kid that had height and weight on me. I didn't really hurt him, just stunned him and set him straight.

The only other act of violence was this one time we're all waking to a bar, already drunk, and this one guy I could not stand insulted my +1. I turned around and started chocking him. I said something like "don't talk to her or me or about her ever again" In the crowd was a future +1 of mine and she maintains that's one of the most hilarious / best things she's witnessed.


Sometimes a bit of violence feels nice.
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« Reply #20 on: June 22, 2012, 07:34:54 PM »

My dad grew up hardscrabbled on the chicago's southside in the 50s. he was a tough kid and a bad one at that. my brother was a jock kind of kid and mr. popular. i'm not the black sheep or anything but didn't really fit the mold from them. they taught me to win people over and to watch your mouth and actions. In general I say I talked or smarted my way out of fights/bullies. There was only a few times in school when I resorted to violence. My favorite was this one time a kid (locker was right next to mine) was making fun of me. I snapped, grabbed his head and slammed it in the locker a few times. He left me alone after that. I know that sounds bad but he was a chubby kid that had height and weight on me. I didn't really hurt him, just stunned him and set him straight.

The only other act of violence was this one time we're all waking to a bar, already drunk, and this one guy I could not stand insulted my +1. I turned around and started chocking him. I said something like "don't talk to her or me or about her ever again" In the crowd was a future +1 of mine and she maintains that's one of the most hilarious / best things she's witnessed.


Sometimes a bit of violence feels nice.
I see you've the heart of a chivalrous man too, Mr Yoda.
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« Reply #21 on: June 22, 2012, 08:46:27 PM »

I've both been bullied and I'm currently a schoolteacher.

I'm still 'bullied' at times by little kids because I'm a little person. Here's the deal: 90% of kids will not bully me because of viciousness, but because their parents did not teach them how to be respectful to disabled people. This annoys the shit out of me. I'll be in a store and kids will point and laugh and say, "Look at the midget!" and their parents will either stand there like statues or in some cases stare at me and POINT BACK. This happens daily. DAILY.

When I'm at school and a kid will giggle call me midget, I actually don't get mad anymore. I simply explain in calm voice that's not okay and WHY it's not. I'll also explain exactly what a little person is in language they understand, and after that? I'm respected and treated like any other teacher. It just pisses me off I'm teaching this life-lesson because parents are too chickenshit to.

You do have to be careful as a teacher tough because parents are quick to defend little Jane or Jack from every slight. I've learned to choose my words carefully, document everything I do, and get backup from my principal at all times. I've had a mom barge into my kindergarten class once because she disagreed with me (screaming, mind you). Got my principal on that one. I've had one class of kids just TOTALLY disrespect me and I got the principal on board to teach them how to be respectful and follow class rules (it also helped that their library was cancelled that day and we had to fill up time). THAT was awesome.

So yeah...this was kind of a rant but it's hard being a teacher. I love what I do, but it really makes me love parents who raise their kids right (and they are out there) because there's so many that are raised to be disrespectful and self-entitled.
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Ashton
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« Reply #22 on: June 22, 2012, 10:16:21 PM »

I agree. I hate this new age bullshit of parents having to be children's friends. It's gotten to the point that when I call parents out on their bullshit, they tell me I don't understand and that I'll 'get it' when I have kids someday and that I couldn't possibly understand the parent/child relationship, et al. Horse shit. There is no excuse for being a worthless, beatnik parent. It's like that Simpsons episode where Flanders' parents don't know what to do about his unruly behavior as a child: "We've tried nothing and we're all out of ideas!" What a load.
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« Reply #23 on: June 24, 2012, 08:50:58 AM »

I love the comic Dice posted.

I had extensive experience with bullying from 7th grade through high school, but in this place, that was pretty much unavoidable.  The area had high racial tensions (believe it or not, being white put you on the wrong side of the racial fence) and a culture obsessed with manliness which meant that everyone had to 'prove' how manly they were by bullying weaker people verbally and physically.  Combine that with a no tolerance policy that meted out heavy punishment to people who defended themselves (and thus made them scared to defend themselves) and you had a perfect storm.  It was indeed psychological torture, and for several years I woke up every morning wondering why I hadn't killed myself the previous day.

That said, what I wanted to comment on was the comic:  There is a lot of truth to that.  While I was in high school a rule was passed that required that the grade printed on a student's report card be no lower than a '50', no matter how low their grade actually was.  This was done to appease parents who would come in and yell at teachers and administrators when their kid got a low double digit or single digit score because they refused to do any work in a given class.
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ZeronHitaro
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« Reply #24 on: June 24, 2012, 10:25:36 AM »

The current state of the school system is one of the primary factors as to why I refuse to sire children. (Economic and genetic issues being the two others.) I don't think I can get a working tangent going here as it's been quite some time since the last bit of news I heard about the system irritated me; but I think I can recall all my general complaints (most of which seem to be voiced here). I'm going to reduce everything to my core issues, likely exaggerated for clarification.

-Poor Teaching System: Many schools simply treat children like cattle in a coral at medication day. Herd them up, get them in the chute, brand 'em, then chase them out. My nephew has serious attitude problems when it comes to his studies and really should've been held back, twice. Both times the school fought my in-laws tooth and nail to advance him; and they actually wanted him held back until he could make anything higher than a D-. They eventually caved just because of the sheer attrition the school put up.

-Bankrupt Morals/Lack of Punishment Systems: I think it all boils down to this; the moment schools were banned from spanking children as a form of punishment the entire thing broke down. Isolation and expulsion are not punishments to problem children. These are 'get out of school' and 'get out class' rewards. The only kids who see these as punishments are the ones who actually want to be in school and learn/have fun; usually getting these due to the breakdowns that come from fighting back against bullies or sheer misunderstandings. Any other form of punishment schools resort to in desperation is quickly flagged by parents as 'cruel and unusual' and beaten down on the 5 o'clock news.

-No Child Left Behind Destroyed Education: Your testing scores = funding. So rather than teaching kids how to prepare for the next level in education, or life, they instead now treat it as one multi-month study session to pass a single exam. It's detrimental on all fronts. I'm just lucky I graduated literally the year before this nonsense went into effect.

-Backwards Priorities: Funny how schools complain about having outdated textbooks, not enough for liberal art clubs, poor salaries, ect. Yet for some reason that huge chunk of lawn and turf they call the football and track field stays pristine and in top quality condition. You go to school to learn high education; not to engage in mock warfare. If you're that worried about physical education just make P.E mandatory and there you go. You get all your sports all year long with only a fraction of the expense. Have a nice, shiny field only after you buy books that aren't browning at the core.

-American Children Are Abominations: Yes, I overgeneralize on this one. But the hard truth of the matter is the number of inept parents are growing. Their poor raising methods breed children with no manners or morals; the kind that'll be as 'good' as raving douchebags or as 'bad' as to stab a child in cold blood for their shoes. These foul seeds will then beget more hellspawn and in all likelihood raise them with equal or even worse parental tactics. Again, I know this one isn't really quite a 'majority' of the children in the system but the circling drain is ever widening with every year it seems.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2012, 10:30:09 AM by ZeronHitaro » Logged
Aurian
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« Reply #25 on: June 24, 2012, 10:56:18 AM »

The problem is that adults seem to have no idea how to deal with bullies. I was told to ignore it (yeah, that works, a passive target means MORE fun for the bullies!), tell the teacher (nothing happened), etc. I was tall, shy, socially awkward, friendless and deaf in a "normal" school. There were days where almost the entire class would taunt me when I tried to fit in. The majority of it were taunts, verbal abuse, stealing my stuff (including my precious sketchbook during a fire drill) and the like, but the more I tried to ignore them, the worse it got and some bullies escalated into physical abuse, including having a pencil driven straight through my hand.

The ONLY thing that stopped any bully when when I literally snapped and went batshit crazy on them. That happened to 3 separate bullies and they never picked on me again after that. Didn't do anything for the rest of the bullies though, so the constant self-esteem damage continued all the way until I graduated high school.

I dunno about the adults' reaction to the bullies - sure, I told my parents and they complained to the school, I told my teachers, etc. But there were just so many incidents and so many bullies, nothing ever seemed to happen from that.

I don't know if bullying is worse than it used to be - it may only LOOK worse because of the videotaped incidents. I'm sure if people had iPhones back then, there would be gruesome bullying incidents then too, as evidenced by our experiences.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2012, 10:59:35 AM by Aurian » Logged
Akanbe-
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« Reply #26 on: June 24, 2012, 04:21:30 PM »

-No Child Left Behind Destroyed Education: Your testing scores = funding. So rather than teaching kids how to prepare for the next level in education, or life, they instead now treat it as one multi-month study session to pass a single exam. It's detrimental on all fronts. I'm just lucky I graduated literally the year before this nonsense went into effect.

I always wondered why this was never repealed.  It seems like everyone hates it.  Even the teaching magazines one of my roommates received monthly frequently had articles against it.

-Backwards Priorities: Funny how schools complain about having outdated textbooks, not enough for liberal art clubs, poor salaries, ect. Yet for some reason that huge chunk of lawn and turf they call the football and track field stays pristine and in top quality condition. You go to school to learn high education; not to engage in mock warfare. If you're that worried about physical education just make P.E mandatory and there you go. You get all your sports all year long with only a fraction of the expense. Have a nice, shiny field only after you buy books that aren't browning at the core.

I was shocked that 4ish years ago, my old highschool put in an artificial turd field in place of the regular one.  Even though it's a relatively small school and we aren't triple A (or whatever the highest league is), we got one anyway.  Apparently it was paid for by a couple large private donations and not tax payer money so there is that possibility.  Even if it wasn't, I'm not too surprised by how much some schools support their sports teams.  It's a pretty good moneymaker.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2012, 04:30:00 PM by Akanbe- » Logged


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« Reply #27 on: June 24, 2012, 07:20:10 PM »

While we are talking about education...I think I'll just inject some manners/testimony stuff in here.

When it comes to children and how to behave in a retail store, I take the role as [manner] educator, as to teach them on what not to do in a store--as well what they can do (some people always forget that part). Usually the actual disciplinary action I take when a child has done wrong is not even with the child, but with the parents who allow their child to act in any way they choose (I feel ya there Lucca on parents too scared to teach there kinds life lessons, as I have to go to the parents to explain to them why their kids can't run in aisle 1 while the parents are in Aisle 13, as well deal with the child right there and then beforeso).

Frequently I become frightened when a child is disciplined by a parent for the wrong reasons when in my pressence. Many a times they discipline the child because the parents become embarrassed or ashamed that their child has done wrong, and rather than use verbal reasoning to tell a child what they did wrong--yes, it's possible to talk your kid and tell them the reason--they either scream or use physical contact on the child to 'explain the wrong'. Yes, because instead of talking with the child, hitting them cause them to see the errors of their way, bringing early enlightenment to the child in the way of manners and good behavior [/sarcasm]

I know this is a fast topic change, but I think it's relevant... VVV

I remember my parents using physical contact to raise me as a child, but they told me what I did wrong and why it was wrong, as well the results if I were to pursue that error. Did I do it anyways? You better believe it! But the fear of knowing the outcome of what was to come help limit the amount of times I would cause that error. Does fear work on raising all children? Probably not, but I know for me and my other siblings, it helped limit the amount of times we purposely made it in our hearts to do a selfish deed (while much of the error I made initially was out ignorance of knowing what to do, the rest--which was a lot--was because I wanted to do it for my own sake).

Did the physical contact they used act as a form to turn internal frustration into external, physical exhaust, or was it out of love because they wanted me to grow up knowing right and wrong and live with fear that if I did what was wrong I would be reproached by it? When I was younger, I believed the former with all my being; now that I'm 24, It became evident in my discussions with my parents now that they truly did love me.

I don't know, maybe I feel that because we aren't instilling both [loving] fear and enforced discipline on a child, they will do as they see fit without concern of negative reactions from both their parents and outside world.

There are plenty of people and/of cultures that disagree wholly with what I think, of course, but that kind of discipline is how I was raised that help me to where I am today. Was it a success? You'll have to tell me, I'm still maturing and learning, 'till death does me apart from this world. ;)

[/lifestory]

**If something I wrote above doesn't make sense, I'll explain it more in detail--as I understand I am not the most understandable writer (a working process I promise)--so don't blow your casket or grow veins on your neck in preparatory retort. ;)

[EDIT]: Had to get rid of a repeated word.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2012, 07:36:48 PM by Wild Armor » Logged

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Tomara
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« Reply #28 on: June 25, 2012, 03:46:14 AM »

Of all the articles in the first post, this was the only one that surprised me:

Quote
A poll revealed that almost all teachers have been forced to work in classrooms where temperatures exceed 24C, while a third have taught in 30C.

Does it matter? You can't control the weather and airco isn't everything either. Sometimes it rains all day and you arrive at school all wet, because your raincoat couldn't handle it. Something you're in the wrong classrooms during the wrong time of year and the room temperature rises to 33 degrees celsius. You just learn to cope and keep on studying. Learning enviroments are rarely ideal, but the weather is the least we should worry about.

If there was anything (or anyone) that ruined classes for me, it would be fellow stupid who wouldn't stop messing around and teacher who gave up on trying to correct them. I guess it's easier to just complain about the weather than to actually improve the situation. I wonder who's lazier in that situation, the students or the adults...

I don't remember my years of secondary education fondly, but they did teach me something useful and that's self-discipline. Atleast I understand that you often have to do things you don't enjoy to accomplish something in life.
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