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MeshGearFox
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HERE ON RUM ISLAND WE DO NOT BELIEVE IN RUM!

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« Reply #660 on: October 02, 2013, 06:58:50 PM »

In world news:

"America rapes itself!"

Yay for us! The most ridiculous thing about this is there's no possible way the House could win... so it's just a big mindless hissy fit. Even Senate Republicans are telling them to fuck off. I also love how government shutdowns stop everything that helps its people, but leaves open everything that dicks them and the rest of the world over. How did we come to this?

My favorite thing right now is that, from a political standpoint, this doesn't really benefit the house republicans at all. I mean, it's like this:

A) It's basically a really small handful of Tea Party dudes forcing Boehner to do this, and they are succeeding at this for... some reason?
B) The GOP's allowed to be upset about Obamacare, but Obama won in 2012 against Romney, Romney had repealing Obamacare as a major platform, and the supreme court said Obamacare was constitutional. They don't really have any legitimacy in opposing it right now.
C) There ARE appropriate channels for trying to repeal laws. Forcing a government shutdown because none of the appropriate channels gave you the outcome you wanted is not really a good approach.

And there aren't any outcomes that help the GOP, as a party. The best case scenario is for the house republicans to just give up, send a bill the senate will pass, and let everyone forget about this whole thing.

Let's assume they get what they want though, and that the senate dems vote to defund/delay Obamacare. What happens?

1. Dems get viewed as the good guys for making a noble sacrifice to restore order to the government.
2. GOP, especially, is going to get blamed for causing it, since they weren't the ones to resolve it.
3. Left-leaning individuals are really pissed at the GOP for sabotaging Obamacare.

They started a fight they couldn't win over something they didn't need to win and even if they DID win it'd be a Pyrrhic victory.

Anyway.

Hey Dice, doesn't the Canadian parliament just fire everyone en masse and hold an election if a massive vote fails? And then Quebec loses?
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Kevadu
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« Reply #661 on: October 02, 2013, 07:41:47 PM »

Well said, Mesh.
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Klutz64
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« Reply #662 on: October 02, 2013, 08:10:19 PM »


1. Dems get viewed as the good guys for making a noble sacrifice to restore order to the government.
2. GOP, especially, is going to get blamed for causing it, since they weren't the ones to resolve it.
3. Left-leaning individuals are really pissed at the GOP for sabotaging Obamacare.


Except party supporters only watch Fox News who will make sure to make it sound like the Dems could have prevented this whole shutdown to begin with if only they had just given up Obamacare right off the bat. I mean, they were going to eventually, see?
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MeshGearFox
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« Reply #663 on: October 02, 2013, 08:14:17 PM »


1. Dems get viewed as the good guys for making a noble sacrifice to restore order to the government.
2. GOP, especially, is going to get blamed for causing it, since they weren't the ones to resolve it.
3. Left-leaning individuals are really pissed at the GOP for sabotaging Obamacare.


Except party supporters only watch Fox News who will make sure to make it sound like the Dems could have prevented this whole shutdown to begin with if only they had just given up Obamacare right off the bat. I mean, they were going to eventually, see?

Yeah but they vote Republican anyway so it doesn't really matter.

http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/comment/2013/09/meadows-boehner-defund-obamacare-suicide-caucus-geography.html

This is another thing someone turned up! Also heard speculation that this is just because Bohener doesn't want to lose his speaker position. Guess he's blocking votes on bills that don't defund/delay Obamacare, even if they turn up? Because there's enough GOP support to pass him, but that would make the far right mad enough to make him lose his seat? Or something?

... Except he's kind of fucking his own party over by doing this so uh I mean uh if his goal's not getting kicked out ... GOOD STRATEGY.
« Last Edit: October 02, 2013, 08:17:01 PM by MeshGearFox » Logged

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GrimReality
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« Reply #664 on: October 02, 2013, 09:38:42 PM »

In world news:

"America rapes itself!"

Yay for us! The most ridiculous thing about this is there's no possible way the House could win... so it's just a big mindless hissy fit. Even Senate Republicans are telling them to fuck off. I also love how government shutdowns stop everything that helps its people, but leaves open everything that dicks them and the rest of the world over. How did we come to this?

My favorite thing right now is that, from a political standpoint, this doesn't really benefit the house republicans at all. I mean, it's like this:

A) It's basically a really small handful of Tea Party dudes forcing Boehner to do this, and they are succeeding at this for... some reason?
B) The GOP's allowed to be upset about Obamacare, but Obama won in 2012 against Romney, Romney had repealing Obamacare as a major platform, and the supreme court said Obamacare was constitutional. They don't really have any legitimacy in opposing it right now.
C) There ARE appropriate channels for trying to repeal laws. Forcing a government shutdown because none of the appropriate channels gave you the outcome you wanted is not really a good approach.

And there aren't any outcomes that help the GOP, as a party. The best case scenario is for the house republicans to just give up, send a bill the senate will pass, and let everyone forget about this whole thing.

Let's assume they get what they want though, and that the senate dems vote to defund/delay Obamacare. What happens?

1. Dems get viewed as the good guys for making a noble sacrifice to restore order to the government.
2. GOP, especially, is going to get blamed for causing it, since they weren't the ones to resolve it.
3. Left-leaning individuals are really pissed at the GOP for sabotaging Obamacare.

They started a fight they couldn't win over something they didn't need to win and even if they DID win it'd be a Pyrrhic victory.

Anyway.

Hey Dice, doesn't the Canadian parliament just fire everyone en masse and hold an election if a massive vote fails? And then Quebec loses?

Mesh, that was perfectly said. You mind if I copy it and share it on fb? With all credit, of course. Or is that too much?
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MeshGearFox
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« Reply #665 on: October 02, 2013, 10:07:06 PM »

Sure, if you want to. I don't have any confidence that my opinions are rational or rationally worded, but if you liked it, go ahead.
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pseudonym
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« Reply #666 on: October 02, 2013, 10:50:58 PM »

In world news:

"America rapes itself!"

Yay for us! The most ridiculous thing about this is there's no possible way the House could win... so it's just a big mindless hissy fit. Even Senate Republicans are telling them to fuck off. I also love how government shutdowns stop everything that helps its people, but leaves open everything that dicks them and the rest of the world over. How did we come to this?

It political grandstanding from both parties. America will implode at some point.
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Tomara
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« Reply #667 on: October 03, 2013, 02:49:53 AM »

As an outsider, the entire situation seems very bizarre.

Me thinks all the power went to the wrong people at some point.

Yeah, I'm not entirely sure shutting down the government is in any way benificial. What is it supposed to accomplish? It sounds more like a forced vacation.

Or is it kinda like the 'motie van wantrouwen' certain Dutch politicians like to wave around to get what they want? Kinda like a little kid dramatically dragging himself over the floor of the candy aisle, screaming he'll never love his mom again if she doesn't buy him treat? And the embarassed mother, who's had a really rough week, ends up buying him a bag in the hopes the little shit will keep his trap shut for atleast half an hour?

I get that. That happens here every year or so.
« Last Edit: October 03, 2013, 10:17:52 AM by Tomara » Logged
Agent D.
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« Reply #668 on: October 03, 2013, 03:58:21 AM »

In other news....this happened...
http://mobile.nytimes.com/2013/10/03/books/tom-clancy-best-selling-novelist-of-military-thrillers-dies-at-66.html

Sad times.
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TASTY!
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« Reply #669 on: October 03, 2013, 09:02:34 AM »


Me thinks all the power went to the wrong people at some point.



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Prime Mover
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« Reply #670 on: October 03, 2013, 03:11:29 PM »

Holy crap, someone's pissed!

Gunshots near Capitol lock down Congress
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Desert Walker
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« Reply #671 on: October 04, 2013, 10:18:56 AM »

Holy crap, someone's pissed!

Gunshots near Capitol lock down Congress

Indeed...the police.
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MeshGearFox
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« Reply #672 on: October 04, 2013, 11:49:22 AM »

Random concern about government shutdown: what if the shutdown isn't a means for the GOP to cripple Obamacare, but rather, if the goal of the suicide caucus is just forcing a shutdown in and of itself, with Obamacare being the means to do that?
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Daggerstrike
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« Reply #673 on: October 04, 2013, 11:58:25 AM »

My biggest issue is that people don't understand "Obamacare" or as it is actually called "Healthcare Reform" or even "Affordable Care Act". All some of these people see is the word Obama and then immediately they have hate boners for it.

If they tried to cancel, change, or otherwise fuck with Healthcare Reform at this point I am pretty sure it would cause more issues than letting it run it's course. And cost more too. Especially once health insurances got involved since they have had to put so much time, effort and money into the current plans. The only thing I could see removing without much issue or pushback is the penalty for not having healthcare, but even that seems like a necessary evil based on the way the program is set up.

The part that bugs me about the shut down is that...why do I have to pay my taxes if they aren't going to do any work?
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MeshGearFox
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« Reply #674 on: October 04, 2013, 12:25:40 PM »

Quote
My biggest issue is that people don't understand "Obamacare" or as it is actually called "Healthcare Reform" or even "Affordable Care Act". All some of these people see is the word Obama and then immediately they have hate boners for it.

Still in line with what I was thinking, though -- how many of the people demanding the shutdown still think that Obama's not a US citizen and has no legitimate right to be president? I don't really know, and I'm hoping it's none of them, but...

Smear campaigns that try to paint the opposition as inept are fine. Smear campaigns that try to paint the opposition as not having the right to rule are reminiscent of nascent middle eastern and post-Soviet democracies. !!!11!!

Quote
If they tried to cancel, change, or otherwise fuck with Healthcare Reform at this point I am pretty sure it would cause more issues than letting it run it's course.

Yeah, that's the point. It's already priced based on the individual mandate. If people get out of that, the costs get messed up in weird ways. Causing the entire thing to fall apart and then the GOP can say it was a bad law in the first place and repeal it.

I think pushing back the penalty would be appropriate if, say, there were more unexpected issues with the system/web pages/whatever that slowed things down and prevented people from enrolling despite of an earnest effort to do so. That'd be fine, but doing it preemptively doesn't make much sense.

Also I'd definitely agree that the legislative branch shouldn't get paid during a shut down.
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