A possibly overlooked reason for the downturn of JRPG's sold in the U.S.?

[Dice]

I remember asking "wtf is Qoga?", someone said, "it means 'life' in the ArTone language!!!!!"

WHAT THE HELL GOOD IS THAT TO ANYONE??  I thought that was a terrible name, without a doubt ostracized some people curious about the title and can't make sense of it...  it was bad enough "Ar Tonelico" technically means nothing beyond fancy being a video game name.

JRPGs can be pretty bad for these in-game referencial titles.  Radiant Historia is a bit of a mouthfull (and just down right confusing when people remember a similar-sounding PS2 title), and again, doesn't really mean anything.

Recent WRPG example would have to be Kingdoms of Amalur: Reckoning  I get the first half, but I assume the "reckoning" was put in because a sequel would have a different name.  Maybe I'm complaining about this one because there was no consistency with it at work, sometimes we'd have it filed under "K" for Kingdoms or "R" for Reckoning.

Sort of an aside, anyone remember the beautifully redundant game title: Divine Divinity??  Brilliant!!

I really don't think someone won't touch a game if they can't make sense of the title; I actually think people are more likely to judge a book by its cover than by its title.  People ask me about "El Shaddai" all the time.

[beLIEve?]

i think the barrier of entry is just higher for an rpg vs fps or whatever else. rpgs assume you have a skillset of understanding systems that have been built over years if you missed getting in early it might be too obtuse. where as fps don't have that as much cause it's based on actions and not numbers as much. i gotta go to a wiki to build a sword in demon/dark souls i can't imagine anyone going to a wiki for cod blops. i was listening to a podcast called the indoor kids and they were talking about this in one of their episodes cause they don't really play jrpgs to much and they kinda cited this as one of the reasons. certainly names miles long don't help.

[TiamatNM]

RPGs also require you to be able to read

[Tomara]

i think the barrier of entry is just higher for an rpg vs fps or whatever else.

I don't think I agree. An FPS is out of my comfort zone and every time I pick one up, I make myself look like an idiot. I'm sure I would get better at it if I played games from that genre more often. And I might, if I find that one FPS that pulls me in. I'm sure it's the same with RPG's. Find that one game and you're set.

My brother got started with Suikoden back when he didn't consider himself a gamer. I have absolutely no idea why he picked that game. It was 2001, you'd think it would look old and boring compared to some of the fancier 3D games. He just did. Ten years later, he's played most of the series, but he still can't pronounce the title correctly.

My sister is an even better example. She's not a gamer, no one would ever consider he a gamer. I don't think she knows what a RPG is and I doubt she'd be interested enough to learn. But sometimes she gets bored, really bored. She'll look through my games, pick something she's never heard of and play for hours on end. She got halfway through Lufia II within a matter of days because she felt like it. Two years later, she does the same with Breath of Fire II. Then Atelier Iris. She hasn't had many of these cravings since I moved out, but if my full collection was still within arms reach, I'd probably find her playing something like Etrian Odyssey or Sakura Taisen.

[Yggdrasil]

RPGs also require you to be able to read

The horror.

[beLIEve?]

i think the barrier of entry is just higher for an rpg vs fps or whatever else.

I don't think I agree. An FPS is out of my comfort zone and every time I pick one up, I make myself look like an idiot. I'm sure I would get better at it if I played games from that genre more often. And I might, if I find that one FPS that pulls me in. I'm sure it's the same with RPG's. Find that one game and you're set.

My brother got started with Suikoden back when he didn't consider himself a gamer. I have absolutely no idea why he picked that game. It was 2001, you'd think it would look old and boring compared to some of the fancier 3D games. He just did. Ten years later, he's played most of the series, but he still can't pronounce the title correctly.

My sister is an even better example. She's not a gamer, no one would ever consider he a gamer. I don't think she knows what a RPG is and I doubt she'd be interested enough to learn. But sometimes she gets bored, really bored. She'll look through my games, pick something she's never heard of and play for hours on end. She got halfway through Lufia II within a matter of days because she felt like it. Two years later, she does the same with Breath of Fire II. Then Atelier Iris. She hasn't had many of these cravings since I moved out, but if my full collection was still within arms reach, I'd probably find her playing something like Etrian Odyssey or Sakura Taisen.

i think your partly right. mind you i haven't played a fps since the bioshock demo, it's not for me. now prior to that the last fps i played was quake. i've missed some iterations so i'm not prepared to play contemporary console fps's. it's outta my league i think. it's probably partly personal preference too. that said, a new gamer can pick up an fps and know right away what to do (you shoot stuff). i was just talking to a friend down at the local diner and she was talking about her boyfriend playing disgaea she's said she had absolutely no idea what the hell was going on and this is after telling me she played ff7. she called the battle screen the q-bert stages i kinda tittered in my head a little. so i think there is a little validity to my point as well.

[Kevadu]

Disgaea is a terrible example.  It's almost intentionally confusing with all the different mechanics they throw in.  Certainly convoluted at the very least.  Not to mention that I wouldn't exactly recommend SRPGs as a starting point anyway.  But that doesn't mean that there aren't more approachable games out there, because there certainly are.

I guess it's true, though, that there's kind of a limit to how complex FPSs get.  You may not like the genre (I'm not exactly crazy about it either), but they all play pretty much the same.  If you can play one then you can any of them.  Wait, that's part of what I dislike about them...

[MeshGearFox]

I thought the Devil Summoner titles were intended as a slight parody/homage of the really long anime titles from the 70s.

[insertnamehere]

The only JRPG with a name like that that comes to mind for me is Gungnir: Inferno of the Demon Lance and the War of Heroes and it only had that name in japan.

[Dincrest]

How about this for a long title: Shin Megami Tensei Devil Summoner Raidou Kuzunoha Vs. The Soulless Army

Still, I'm not sure if length of titles is the issue, so much as recycled names.  "Eternal" is found everywhere.  I sometimes think the recycled word titles are in place to cash in on the retro/familiarity trend. 

There are plenty of video games that could win a "What's in a name?" award. 

And I have to love insanely long songs titles by artists like Meat Loaf and Bal-Sagoth.  One of my favorite Bal-Sagoth song titles is "The Dark Liege of Chaos Is Unleashed at the Ensorcelled Shrine of A'Zura Kai (The Splendour of a Thousand Swords Gleaming Beneath the Blazon of the Hyperborean Empire: Part II)"  The title has more lyrics than your average pop song. 

[Tomara]

Disgaea is a terrible example.  It's almost intentionally confusing with all the different mechanics they throw in.  Certainly convoluted at the very least.  Not to mention that I wouldn't exactly recommend SRPGs as a starting point anyway.  But that doesn't mean that there aren't more approachable games out there, because there certainly are.

 I remember my first SRPG. I only knew RTS-games, so I couldn't quite figure out what to do by just looking at the screenshots. I did get the hang of it after playing a few stages. SRPGs are very abstract, but I think that might make them easier to understand, as long as you keep that in mind. If you go in expecting a action game mechanics, you'll be in trouble. Expect something like chess and you'll do okay. I got two people into RPGs with Disgaea. One of them even bought a PS2 for it. (Even after dying horrible, horrible death in Rhapsody on easy.)

[Britton]

Disgaea is a terrible example.  It's almost intentionally confusing with all the different mechanics they throw in.  Certainly convoluted at the very least.  Not to mention that I wouldn't exactly recommend SRPGs as a starting point anyway.  But that doesn't mean that there aren't more approachable games out there, because there certainly are.

 I remember my first SRPG. I only knew RTS-games, so I couldn't quite figure out what to do by just looking at the screenshots. I did get the hang of it after playing a few stages. SRPGs are very abstract, but I think that might make them easier to understand, as long as you keep that in mind. If you go in expecting a action game mechanics, you'll be in trouble. Expect something like chess and you'll do okay. I got two people into RPGs with Disgaea. One of them even bought a PS2 for it. (Even after dying horrible, horrible death in Rhapsody on easy.)

I love Bal-Sagoth. I wonder if they are split up? Haven't heard anything from them in a while. Half the lyrics in their lyric booklets never get sung by the vocalist.

[MeshGearFox]

Just curious but how ARE JRPGs being overlooked these days?
 
wrt Suikoden: I know how it's supposed to be pronounced. I still say it wrong because the actual pronunciation sounds very odd in English.

I guess it's true, though, that there's kind of a limit to how complex FPSs get.  You may not like the genre (I'm not exactly crazy about it either), but they all play pretty much the same.  If you can play one then you can any of them.  Wait, that's part of what I dislike about them...

All FPSes play the same, much in the same way that all turn-based RPGs play the same. If you can aim a crosshair and click the mouse button, you can play any FPS. If you can select commands from a menu, you can play any RPG.

[beLIEve?]

Just curious but how ARE JRPGs being overlooked these days?
 
wrt Suikoden: I know how it's supposed to be pronounced. I still say it wrong because the actual pronunciation sounds very odd in English.

I guess it's true, though, that there's kind of a limit to how complex FPSs get.  You may not like the genre (I'm not exactly crazy about it either), but they all play pretty much the same.  If you can play one then you can any of them.  Wait, that's part of what I dislike about them...

All FPSes play the same, much in the same way that all turn-based RPGs play the same. If you can aim a crosshair and click the mouse button, you can play any FPS. If you can select commands from a menu, you can play any RPG.

i don't know, i think here is a little more barrier of entry... okay maybe not barrier of entry so much as expectations of you knowing rpg conventions for rpgs. there is nothing in some rpgs that say okay time to grind other than, "shit! i'm really getting trounced by this enemy." there's moments where your thinking, "um what next?'' and you're just supposed to go explore or talk to the right person. or perhaps you need some item to trigger some cut scene that you might miss in some dungeon. there is all these thingss that we have come to expect almost since we've been playing rpgs forever that the laymen coming into it might be put off by. japan has been holding on to convention a little too tightly, which is sort of understandable with development cost i can see why they'd want to be conservative. i think that we kind of got a perfect storm of bad luck for japanese devs.

[MeshGearFox]

there is all these thingss that we have come to expect almost since we've been playing rpgs forever that the laymen coming into it might be put off by.

Everything you've listed (grind, vague goals, easily missed items necessary for progression) are elements of /really fucking shitty/ game design, and if they're conventions inherent to JRPG, then JRPGs are an embodiment of /really fucking shitty/ game design.

In which case the real reason for the downturn of JRPGs is just that they're terrible.