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Author Topic: A possibly overlooked reason for the downturn of JRPG's sold in the U.S.?  (Read 5493 times)
Dice
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« Reply #45 on: October 02, 2012, 08:36:08 PM »

This sounds...veiguely familiar.

Oh right.
http://www.rpgfan.com/boards/index.php?topic=9193.msg233102#msg233102

I thought the Star Ocean series was an admirable take on plot to feature future elements and sci-fi.
But...eugh, I'm not getting into this again.
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Fadedsun
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« Reply #46 on: October 02, 2012, 09:15:35 PM »

JRPG sci-fi stories in general tend to have the habit of featuring no real science fiction at all, and at best you're dumped on some backwater medieval planet for the whole game.

It's a sci-fi game. SURPRISE: Time travel back to medieval times.
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Yggdrasil
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« Reply #47 on: October 02, 2012, 09:21:58 PM »

JRPGs no longer cater to my 30's self, they did when I was in my teens and early 20's. I agree with the editorial that RPGfan wrote about JRPGs being the young adult novels of the video game world.

So uh, your reason is that you are "too old for this shit"? I've always believed that the main reasons why some people didn't got into JRPGs was more for unappealing aesthetics and gameplay.
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Aeolus
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« Reply #48 on: October 03, 2012, 01:09:59 AM »

I agree. While the execution tends to be kind of...off, but there is so much creativity in the world design. Skies of Arcadia, Ar Tonelico, any Final Fantasy, Shin Megami Tensei and so on. There's even a jRPG about the console wars! Even Xenoblade, which has been hailed as the best of East and West combined has a fantastically unique world. I've found that on average, even the most bog-standard jRPG has a much more unique world than the average wRPG. Mass Effect is great, but there's no moment like Star Ocean 3's big twist (I thought it was kind of stupid, but I didn't expect it and it was a good idea, just badly executed). Fallout 3 is good, but it doesn't do the atmosphere nearly as well as Nocturne or Digital Devil Saga (which I hold up as some of the best post-apocalyptic games ever).

Both Japanese and American developers try to play it safe, but safe for a jRPG is so much more interesting (and colourful most of the time) than a wRPG. That's not putting wRPGs down, that's just my opinion.

Those are some terrible examples anyways.

SoA is a terrible example because it came out over a decade ago and is more among what the JRPG genre is downturning from.

Ar Tonelico would be a great series if I could honestly recommend it to anyone instead of keeping it as a secret shame due to all the needless sexual innuendo and weird shit like a bathing power up mechanic or a strip down power up mechanic. Also it has a nasty habit of everything consisting of facial expression, visual effect, facial expression, visual effect, ect....

Final Fantasy stopped being good around IX/X/XI depending on who you ask. X-2 sucked ass (combat's not as good as anybody remembers; the rest has already been spoken for), XII was a mess, XIII was a tech demo, XIII-2 was more of a Final Fan Fiction than a Final Fantasy, and have they even released a FFXIV and meant it yet? I know they wont be releasing Versus any time soon.

SMT is an acquired taste at best and "PERSONA SPAAAAAAAMMMMM!!!!!" at worst. It's also COMPLETELY Japanese. Even in post apocalyptic settings.

Neptunia is everything that's wrong with JRPGs right now; although not to the same degree as other choice games like Argrest Wars, Cross Edge, Endless Frontier, Luminous Arc, and so on.... Also Neptunia runs on Japan brand humor which means word plays and stupidly obscure references slathered all over the place.

Xenoblade is indeed an incredible example which is why its a terrible example. Its as far from average as you can get in a JRPG, and one that's actually gone out of its way to address many of the issues currently plaguing the genre. Its the literal standout since DQVIII came out a full console generation ago. Its the exception, not the norm or anything close to it.

Star Ocean 3's been covered by the above.

My point is that whatever value these games might have at the start is lost for the familiarity of the main guy with a sword, savin' the day and his childhood+girl next door girlfriend while his home town, his aging mentor, and possibly one of his party members and/or his classmates at his Japanese High School all meet a dramatically tragic end, along with any NPC female since they're all functionally useless beyond existing solely to be a cunt/overwrought death scene fodder/fanservice, the last of which is also covered by all one/three female party members, including the trying to be cute but is utterly obnoxious and poorly designed to boot loli, your male party members will be a bit more diversified since they're both representing all the non human races and non main character's home country and are actually relevant to those areas unless they're not because only the main character and his romantic side plot are the only things that matter at all, especially not the villains if they aren't your personal rival because they're either cartoonishly evil, incompetent doofs, generic embodiments of evil, female (unless they're part of that romantic side plot in which case the older, uglier, female villain that's irrelevant), whiny teenagers who have absolutely no right to bitch and complain, godmodding marty stus that completely ignore the outcome of the boss fight you just fought, godmodding marty stus that can not possibly fail because the writers want him to be the ULTIMATE BAD GUY!!!lol101...

The tl;dr is that; yes. I'm getting too old for this shit.

Also the best post-apocalyptic game IMO is Nier. Nothing like noticing an oddly absent environmental mechanic having a goddamn depressing and fucked up story reason behind it.
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« Reply #49 on: October 03, 2012, 08:48:55 AM »

JRPGs no longer cater to my 30's self, they did when I was in my teens and early 20's. I agree with the editorial that RPGfan wrote about JRPGs being the young adult novels of the video game world.

So uh, your reason is that you are "too old for this shit"? I've always believed that the main reasons why some people didn't got into JRPGs was more for unappealing aesthetics and gameplay.

The gameplay can tilt a game in or out of favor, but just like I don't watch Thunder Cats or Voltron anymore, nor listen to "nu-metal", JRPGs don't speak to me in the same way they once did.
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« Reply #50 on: October 03, 2012, 09:13:27 AM »

i think star ocean does what it does due to the way jrpg's tend to focus on melee combat. even the old phantasy stars have a backwater vibe.
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« Reply #51 on: October 03, 2012, 11:23:15 AM »

JRPGs no longer cater to my 30's self, they did when I was in my teens and early 20's. I agree with the editorial that RPGfan wrote about JRPGs being the young adult novels of the video game world.

So uh, your reason is that you are "too old for this shit"? I've always believed that the main reasons why some people didn't got into JRPGs was more for unappealing aesthetics and gameplay.

What's wrong with that? People change and grow out of things all the time.
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« Reply #52 on: October 03, 2012, 11:45:54 AM »

@Aeolus: Damn son.

What's wrong with that? People change and grow out of things all the time.

I never said that it was wrong. Maybe the fact of seeing way too many "opinions" which are made by nostalgia or cynicism are getting to me.
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« Reply #53 on: October 04, 2012, 08:19:11 PM »

ive recently considered the possibility that the down turn in rpg's could be a cyclical thing.
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« Reply #54 on: October 05, 2012, 02:19:57 AM »



?
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Iron Maw
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« Reply #55 on: October 05, 2012, 08:11:57 PM »

Honestly, seems like industry as whole were down the last couple quarters going by sales trends , so JRPGs  aren't alone here. Perhaps JRPGs maybe able catch break once this lengthy console is over.
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Eusis
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« Reply #56 on: October 05, 2012, 09:21:30 PM »

I think there's two things that'll help JRPGs most right now:

1. Economic recovery, as in the average person is making way more money and is holding a job stably.

2. Exchange rate evens out, even if the Yen remains stronger being CLOSE would probably make localizations much more appealing.

Well, and interest has to remain or be able to be grown back when this happens, otherwise it'd continue to get worse.
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« Reply #57 on: October 06, 2012, 04:11:40 AM »

the only people i know that like X-2's combat are hardcore old school FF fans that think atb is the best thing ever. i happen to know someone like this and she insists X-2 combat is better than X.
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« Reply #58 on: October 06, 2012, 04:47:23 AM »

I think X-2's combat was far better than X's. But that's because I think Job Systems > Static Class Characters. Yes X had that whole 'sphere grid "make anything you want"' but any variations on your pre-set class could only be done with super rare items and only near end game/new game+. Class swapping, both as an out-of-battle-only and on-the-fly mechanic allows for more dynamic gameplay and more strategy to be put behind the system as there's multiple ways to tackle any given foe.

Unless of course you're the XIII line of games. Which thinks class swapping just means switching out a few active abilities and calling it good while also saying 'Play this class or you won't kill this foe'; completely defeating the purpose.
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Aeolus
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« Reply #59 on: October 06, 2012, 10:13:10 PM »

My problem with FFX-2's battle system isn't that it runs off an ATB system but that because it doesn't run off an ATB system. FFX-2's 'version' of ATB involved waiting for your gauge to fill like a normal ATB then input your command, then wait for the query gauge to empty, and then wait for the game to roll the dice to determine that your action is finally allowed to go off.

FFXII operated on the same system which crap like the bonus bosses loved to abuse to no end (Attack was the only command not tied to this which meant that bosses can proceed to stomp your shit in at their leisure with combo after combo while life saving Curagas and Curajas were just sitting there with fully charged queries as you died horribly). Better still, they used special abilities that made even the one thing you could do in those situations (Attack!!!) useless when the game decided that you don't deserve to live anymore.

Isn't it fun to have game designers take engine exploits and unintended features and liberally abuse them to make their super bosses nearly invincible? Especially when the game's plot mandates you to take them out in order to complete the game (for example the Magus Sisters in X-2)?
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