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Author Topic: Zero Escape 3 official  (Read 9016 times)
Dice
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« Reply #150 on: July 11, 2016, 08:06:40 PM »

Speaking of unresolved plot threads...

Code:
http://zeroescape.wikia.com/wiki/%3F

The page is theorizing that this is Brother/Delta, but I'm kind of thinking it might be Sean? They mention that ? can traverse time and space freely...

On that, I don't know.  Given how keen these games are to clean up loose ends, unless it's any one of those people I'm not sure what answer can really provide much of a surprise.
Code:
That said I think Sean would be a cool choice.

Really hope the series continues in some fashion, even if ZTD ends with a bit of a whimper than a bang, I'd still welcome whatever Uchikoshi works on for satisfying whatever itch his games are.
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« Reply #151 on: July 11, 2016, 08:14:26 PM »

I mean, one way or another, we got two brilliant games and one pretty good one, so I'd chalk that up as a win. Godspeed, you crazy motherf***er, you.
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ZeronHitaro
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« Reply #152 on: July 11, 2016, 08:25:38 PM »

Actually it's funny you bring up the comparison Fury, because I'd been thinking of listing this as a potential grumble but hadn't really felt like it since I doubted anyone here would have the knowledge to make the comparison.

I think half of the problem with ZTD ultimately comes from it trying to too heavily ape it's source material.

Officially, one of these sources is the Walking Dead games.

However I'm pretty sure 'unofficially' the writers/dev team watched Saw VI.

ZTD mirrors that particular movie more than just a little bit. To summarize:

-The whole Decision Game aspect is almost beat for beat William's Trials.
-The ending is basically the William Game ending both in direction and intended emotional/moral angle.
-The twists are pretty much identical.
Code:
Misdirection over who is in the game and who the game is for.
-Both demonize the 'clinical for the greater good' mentality.
-Both prominently feature incorrectly used
Code:
HF Acid.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2016, 08:34:40 PM by ZeronHitaro » Logged
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« Reply #153 on: July 11, 2016, 08:40:01 PM »

It does have the "choose who lives or dies" aspect, for sure. Zero Escape has always had some Saw in its DNA but this is probably the entry where that comparison is at its most explicit.
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Klutz64
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« Reply #154 on: July 12, 2016, 12:49:31 AM »

Time to share some of my post-playthrough thoughts. Since it seems like I'm probably one of the last folks on this forum to finish it, I'll just use the black text for spoilers. Also, I read through all the posts now, but since there were so many, if I reference a point someone else made I'm not going to bother trying to remember who said it. I apologize for that.

1. In regard to VLR's cliff hanger:

- Dunno why anyone would say the Radical-6 plot is thrown out or doesn't have a significant role in ZTD

I mean the whole thing was a setup so that the strongest SHIFTers would gather and basically be trained to gain stronger control over their powers.
Was the ending a lazy threat escalation? Sure. But that doesn't mean the Radical-6 plot was any more of a loose end than any other plot thread presented thus far.


2. Overall presentation

- I liked the fragment setup. I got pretty lucky and viewed them all in an order where nothing felt like it was prematurely revealed, so I guess in that sense I can understand why some people didn't like it.

- Took a lot of reflection, but I do agree with those who say the cinematic presentation leaves too much room for desperately needed details. And even then, they probably could have done with a lot more character development

Hell, Diana and Sigma's relationship kind of skeeved me out at first since Diana's design makes her look incredibly young and her age is barely even hinted at.

- It took me almost until the end of the game to notice the "Switch" button that toggles the fragment flowchart to a global flowchart more reminiscent of VLR's.

- I liked the graphics for the most part . Loved the twitchy eyes whenever a character snapped. Though often times some of the animations seemed a little odd.

- Corny as it was, that "bittersweet" theme that played whenever something that was supposed to be giving us feels was easily my favorite music in the game.

3. The big reveal

- I mean, I can assume we all knew who Zero was after Sigma and Diana's ending, right? Even if we didn't realize the other part of the twist?

- The actual plot twist however felt WAY too much like VLR's to really be satisfying. And while I agree there were a few good moments of foreshadowing for it, nothing really topped Tenmyouji's comment from VLR (The one about Sigma being in school for a really long time)

4. General Character & Plot Thoughts

- Akane's character annoyed me far more than Junpei's, believe it or not. Like, yeah Junpei's excuse for being so jaded was grade A bs, but actually Akane's condescending explanation every time something vaguely scientific or philosophic was broUGHT UP? Complete with that valley girl style quixotic inflection at the end of every senTENCE? Yeah, that got pretty obnoxious pretty quickly.

- Everything about the transporter bugs the hell out of me.
Sigma: Oh no it blew up now we can't use it for 10 months.
Carlos: Oh no it blew up now it can never be used again.

I'm going to assume Sigma didn't randomly press buttons when he sent away the twins the way he did when he and Diana were trying to escape the doomed history, so how did they automatically know that Phi and THE Phi were the same person, having sent baby Phi to 1904?

How the hell did this giant contraption get moved three times without any whistleblowers, conspiracy theorists, or even the general media revealing its existence? I mean, its pretty clear the core itself is bigger than the room its being stored in. Especially when the final owner was a lone crazy philanthropist, or whatever cover Delta was using at the time.

- Riding off of Dice's comments, Carlos was just an incredibly boring character. And it just made things all the worse when he became the game's Super Shifter.

- One detail I found clever is that the way the decontamination room sequence is set up on the global flowchart kind of gives away the staggered time twist without actually giving it away.

Though one question I have about the flowchart is why the execution scenes were separate from the main chart when they were clearly the catalysts for the initial branching of histories.

Gotta agree with whoever said that the group's "moral dilemma" at the very end was completely bonkers when you think about all the visceral endings in the rest of the game.
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« Reply #155 on: July 12, 2016, 02:30:48 AM »

I wouldn't put much stock in the Zero Escape Wikia; I noticed that many of the pages have been most recently updated by this guy.

I enjoyed the fragment format--it was set up in a way that you couldn't really be "spoiled" until you undid some of the locks. The way it was handled, I felt like it wasn't detrimental to the plot to see things "out of order".

What skeeved me out was how ZTD recontextualized
Quote
the relationship between Sigma and Phi.
This puts VLR's jokes about
Quote
Sigma wanting to see Phi in a swimsuit in a horrible new light.


On the topic of Carlos...
Quote
I had theories he was going to turn out to be a baddie. The status screen portrays Carlos and Mira as Ken and Barbie like characters, respectively. I cottoned on to Mira being bad news even before she started killing people, so it looked to me like Carlos was hiding something under his All American Good Guy™ persona. But no such luck, just a boring dude who wants to kiss his sister.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2016, 02:41:35 AM by Towns Car Marty » Logged


Dice
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« Reply #156 on: July 12, 2016, 09:29:28 PM »

Time to share some of my post-playthrough thoughts. Since it seems like I'm probably one of the last folks on this forum to finish it, I'll just use the black text for spoilers. Also, I read through all the posts now, but since there were so many, if I reference a point someone else made I'm not going to bother trying to remember who said it. I apologize for that.

1. In regard to VLR's cliff hanger:

- Dunno why anyone would say the Radical-6 plot is thrown out or doesn't have a significant role in ZTD

I mean the whole thing was a setup so that the strongest SHIFTers would gather and basically be trained to gain stronger control over their powers.
Was the ending a lazy threat escalation? Sure. But that doesn't mean the Radical-6 plot was any more of a loose end than any other plot thread presented thus far.


2. Overall presentation

- I liked the fragment setup. I got pretty lucky and viewed them all in an order where nothing felt like it was prematurely revealed, so I guess in that sense I can understand why some people didn't like it.

- Took a lot of reflection, but I do agree with those who say the cinematic presentation leaves too much room for desperately needed details. And even then, they probably could have done with a lot more character development

Hell, Diana and Sigma's relationship kind of skeeved me out at first since Diana's design makes her look incredibly young and her age is barely even hinted at.

- It took me almost until the end of the game to notice the "Switch" button that toggles the fragment flowchart to a global flowchart more reminiscent of VLR's.

- I liked the graphics for the most part . Loved the twitchy eyes whenever a character snapped. Though often times some of the animations seemed a little odd.

- Corny as it was, that "bittersweet" theme that played whenever something that was supposed to be giving us feels was easily my favorite music in the game.

3. The big reveal

- I mean, I can assume we all knew who Zero was after Sigma and Diana's ending, right? Even if we didn't realize the other part of the twist?

- The actual plot twist however felt WAY too much like VLR's to really be satisfying. And while I agree there were a few good moments of foreshadowing for it, nothing really topped Tenmyouji's comment from VLR (The one about Sigma being in school for a really long time)

4. General Character & Plot Thoughts

- Akane's character annoyed me far more than Junpei's, believe it or not. Like, yeah Junpei's excuse for being so jaded was grade A bs, but actually Akane's condescending explanation every time something vaguely scientific or philosophic was broUGHT UP? Complete with that valley girl style quixotic inflection at the end of every senTENCE? Yeah, that got pretty obnoxious pretty quickly.

- Everything about the transporter bugs the hell out of me.
Sigma: Oh no it blew up now we can't use it for 10 months.
Carlos: Oh no it blew up now it can never be used again.

I'm going to assume Sigma didn't randomly press buttons when he sent away the twins the way he did when he and Diana were trying to escape the doomed history, so how did they automatically know that Phi and THE Phi were the same person, having sent baby Phi to 1904?

How the hell did this giant contraption get moved three times without any whistleblowers, conspiracy theorists, or even the general media revealing its existence? I mean, its pretty clear the core itself is bigger than the room its being stored in. Especially when the final owner was a lone crazy philanthropist, or whatever cover Delta was using at the time.

- Riding off of Dice's comments, Carlos was just an incredibly boring character. And it just made things all the worse when he became the game's Super Shifter.

- One detail I found clever is that the way the decontamination room sequence is set up on the global flowchart kind of gives away the staggered time twist without actually giving it away.

Though one question I have about the flowchart is why the execution scenes were separate from the main chart when they were clearly the catalysts for the initial branching of histories.

Gotta agree with whoever said that the group's "moral dilemma" at the very end was completely bonkers when you think about all the visceral endings in the rest of the game.

Top notch write up that sort of got a lot of my grievances I had that I didn't put into words.  And yeah, I forgot to mention how annoying the logic of the transporter room is --- IT'S a deus ex machina if there was one, but I mean the ability to jump dimensions is pretty fucking sweet to begin with it.  Which, given how convenient both of these plot devices are, it's great that the game again ends on a note where it technically doesn't let them win against the 'big bad', who's completely in the clear.

Hmm...I'd love if the next game took place in 1904.

On the topic of Carlos...
Quote
I had theories he was going to turn out to be a baddie. The status screen portrays Carlos and Mira as Ken and Barbie like characters, respectively. I cottoned on to Mira being bad news even before she started killing people, so it looked to me like Carlos was hiding something under his All American Good Guy™ persona. But no such luck, just a boring dude who wants to kiss his sister.

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Klutz64
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« Reply #157 on: July 15, 2016, 10:36:42 PM »

One thing I forgot to mention was how disappointed I was in the puzzle rooms. Most of them felt a bit too short and easy, and by the 10 hour mark they were pretty much done and gone with 10-15 hours worth of game left.

This was particularly a shame since the final puzzle rooms in 999 and VLR really helped build the tense and mysterious atmosphere.
« Last Edit: July 15, 2016, 10:38:56 PM by Klutz64 » Logged

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« Reply #158 on: July 16, 2016, 12:14:04 AM »

Something from VLR's epilogue that I wanted answers on but didn't get:

Code:
Clover and Alice said they had a way to go back to their own past / timeline. Their answer? "Schrödinger's. / Cat!" That could mean any of a number of things. But whatever it meant, we didn't get to find out what it was.

Maybe this franchise needs like a 13-ep OVA anime to tie up all the various loose ends. I'd watch.
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ZeronHitaro
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« Reply #159 on: July 16, 2016, 12:34:51 AM »

I mentioned that in my shaded comments. I'm pretty sure that was answered indirectly.

Code:

There's no reason to think Akane and Sigma didn't salvage the time-space machine in the
Doomsday timeline. It's literally the only device in-universe that has the ability to do so. Also
it is a literal embodiment of the Schro-Cat experiment. Who got transported? Both; until
you open the pod and set one as a reality.

Which is a bit morbid in and of itself.

Because technically it means 'they' didn't return to the past.

Their copies did or their copies are stuck there permanently.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2016, 12:37:45 AM by ZeronHitaro » Logged
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« Reply #160 on: July 19, 2016, 10:15:36 AM »

If the fans want it lol
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ZeronHitaro
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« Reply #161 on: August 16, 2016, 09:23:31 PM »

Lol. So basically the answer to everything strung in VLR is, by anyone who knows how writers think: "I forgot when writing part three. So, reconned."

No wonder ZTD seemed lazy in some areas. He really has given up his passion.

One of those moments the answer was far better left off unsaid.
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