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Author Topic: The Legend of Zelda Topic (Latest: NX title delayed to '17)  (Read 22930 times)
Agent D.
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« Reply #210 on: May 02, 2016, 02:34:30 AM »

Correct me if I'm wrong but the Wii U is kind of on target to sell about as many as the gamecube as far as I can tell....
Gamecube sold just under 22 million units worldwide in about 6 years, Wii U is at 12.8 mil as of march. Unless it can sell another 9 million units in 2 years, the cube surpassed it...and given that the NX is slated for next march, I HIGHLY doubt that's likely.

The Wii U is a flop. Not a virtual boy flop, but definitely close on the list.
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Artimicia
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« Reply #211 on: May 02, 2016, 08:53:39 AM »

^^ See I just think Nintendo has invariably been a lot more interesting when they get that experimentalist vibe whether it's the GC era or the Wii U era. I've never liked them when they were just doing their plain Arcade Fun routine whether that's the NES, Game Boy, even SNES, and certainly not the Wii.

Like I would say, despite not selling a ton, if I have to pick the best time for classic Nintendo franchise games it's the N64, Ocarina, SM64, etc, best in their respective franchises in many ways and also at times the most experimental.

The GC is also when a lot of big 3rd party franchises and things popped up such as Baten Kaitos, or when other franchises morphed into more interesting directions than had been previous (Fire Emblem, etc)

The simple fact is the DS/3DS has been taking that thunder this round for the most part, but there are still a handful of things exclusive to Wii U that give it a similar status for at least hardcore gamers, IMHO.

I mean, when all is said and done no one has to convince me that the "games as toy" idea that Nintendo has severe limitations, and why I often saw it necessary to have a Playstation or Playstation 2 or whatever to get those, more RPG or immersive like experiences, but at the same time, when Nintendo does manage to find that magic single thing amidst Super Mario 27, it's usually worth it for that alone. It's just that, that thing is actually often not the First party titles, as is often assumed. .

I mean even on this very forum, you can see the popularity of Xeno X, for instance .

TLDR I mean as someone looking at game experiences I think it can be quite strong by the time all is said and done, for people looking for big sales and big numbers obviously not though.

Also I remember trying out the Virtual Boy in stores and honestly that it was pretty interesting, but it was just too expensive for me to ever get into it. Maybe the only good game was Mario Tennis but what can I say I rather liked that Tennis game.
« Last Edit: May 02, 2016, 09:02:44 AM by Artimicia » Logged
Artimicia
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« Reply #212 on: May 17, 2016, 11:11:13 PM »

So are you guys going to be getting it for NX or Wii U ya think?

I'm possibly just going to ignore the NX and go with the Wii U specifically since there is no knowledge about NX anyway basically.
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Klutz64
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« Reply #213 on: May 18, 2016, 12:03:11 AM »

If Splatoon (2) is a launch title for the NX, it will probably be a day 1 buy for me, in which case I'll definitely get it for the NX. Otherwise, yeah probably the Wii U version.
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« Reply #214 on: May 18, 2016, 10:17:30 AM »

I'm going to get it for Wii U. Even if the NX turns out to be the best console ever (which is unlikely), I will wait a year or two to purchase one.
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Artimicia
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« Reply #215 on: May 18, 2016, 06:12:36 PM »

Honestly my understanding was the gamepad was pretty central to the design of Zelda U so I wouldn't be surprised if it morphed into a TP was better for the gamecube situation... as another factor.
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Artimicia
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« Reply #216 on: May 23, 2016, 03:10:05 AM »

So the age old debate is Zelda an RPG??


Yes it is.

I mean really would anyone see it otherwise at this point? I think anyone seasoned gamer knows it's basically an RPG... but somehow I wonder... someone could convince me otherwise?

Hmm.. don't know really, I've spent a lot of time playing RPGs and a lot of time playing "Action games" and while most people wouldn't say it I could even say Super Mario qualifies as an RPG at times.. you have an HP bar of 3 hits you have upgrades, power ups, a mount, you collect coins/points and proceed through multiple series of levels I don't know seems like an RPG to me...

That one I don't expect people to agree with but yeah I wanted to throw that out there.
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Ranadiel
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« Reply #217 on: May 23, 2016, 06:57:48 AM »

So the age old debate is Zelda an RPG??


Yes it is.

I mean really would anyone see it otherwise at this point? I think anyone seasoned gamer knows it's basically an RPG... but somehow I wonder... someone could convince me otherwise?

Hmm.. don't know really, I've spent a lot of time playing RPGs and a lot of time playing "Action games" and while most people wouldn't say it I could even say Super Mario qualifies as an RPG at times.. you have an HP bar of 3 hits you have upgrades, power ups, a mount, you collect coins/points and proceed through multiple series of levels I don't know seems like an RPG to me...

That one I don't expect people to agree with but yeah I wanted to throw that out there.
No it isn't. It is an action/adventure game set in a medieval/fantasy setting. You have to expand the definition of RPG  beyond the point of usefulness to fit most Zelda games into it. Heck, check a site that sells games like Gamestop, and see which category they place it under.
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Artimicia
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« Reply #218 on: May 23, 2016, 09:02:47 AM »

So the age old debate is Zelda an RPG??


Yes it is.

I mean really would anyone see it otherwise at this point? I think anyone seasoned gamer knows it's basically an RPG... but somehow I wonder... someone could convince me otherwise?

Hmm.. don't know really, I've spent a lot of time playing RPGs and a lot of time playing "Action games" and while most people wouldn't say it I could even say Super Mario qualifies as an RPG at times.. you have an HP bar of 3 hits you have upgrades, power ups, a mount, you collect coins/points and proceed through multiple series of levels I don't know seems like an RPG to me...

That one I don't expect people to agree with but yeah I wanted to throw that out there.
No it isn't. It is an action/adventure game set in a medieval/fantasy setting. You have to expand the definition of RPG  beyond the point of usefulness to fit most Zelda games into it. Heck, check a site that sells games like Gamestop, and see which category they place it under.

What's another action game though then? That isn't a Zelda-clone?
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Klutz64
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« Reply #219 on: May 23, 2016, 09:07:50 AM »

The Batman Arkham series or Enslaved are two that come to mind. I'm too tired and in pain to think of any more at the moment, but basically anything that doesn't fit neatly into an existing genre is labeled as "Action-Adventure"
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« Reply #220 on: May 23, 2016, 10:51:41 AM »

Borderlands...??  I'm sure that's an RPG played mostly by people who don't like typical RPGs.  I think.  I dunno.  Some peeps on Twitter were complaining about the visual novels we added to the "30 Essential RPGs" list.  Frankly, game genres isn't much fun to talk about for me beyond establishing what a new IP might be.

I don't really consider Zelda an RPG-RPG, but I say "good enough" and find it fun and a little funny we cover it.
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« Reply #221 on: May 23, 2016, 01:27:30 PM »

So the age old debate is Zelda an RPG??


Yes it is.

I mean really would anyone see it otherwise at this point? I think anyone seasoned gamer knows it's basically an RPG... but somehow I wonder... someone could convince me otherwise?

Hmm.. don't know really, I've spent a lot of time playing RPGs and a lot of time playing "Action games" and while most people wouldn't say it I could even say Super Mario qualifies as an RPG at times.. you have an HP bar of 3 hits you have upgrades, power ups, a mount, you collect coins/points and proceed through multiple series of levels I don't know seems like an RPG to me...

That one I don't expect people to agree with but yeah I wanted to throw that out there.

I guess you could make individual cases depending on the game. Adventure of Link for instance could be mistaken for an RPG just because of all the upgrades you make to your HP, MP, Attack, Defense and Magic Proficiency, largely through Exp, while also obtaining new Spells and Special Attacks. Whereas Ocarina of Time only offers HP upgrades since Attack upgrades are either plot locked (Kid Link is stuck with the crappy Koriki Sword, Adult Link defaults to the Master Sword) or are so completely different from your standard weapon that it fits better as a separate item (which is what Majora's Mask and the Oracle games did with their Biggoron's Sword equivalents) and the only MP and Defense upgrades are a one time doubling (the latter coming in extremely late and only serving to make the already negligible amounts of damage most enemies do to your overly inflated HP pool a complete joke).

But then, most Zelda games kinda fall closer to the OoT model where all your weapon upgrades are plot locked and generally one-time affairs and that's if they even offer defense upgrades beyond a nicer looking Shield that doesn't burn when torched (which had largely become irrelevant in terms of upgrades until Skyward Sword).
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Artimicia
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« Reply #222 on: May 23, 2016, 09:45:59 PM »

So the age old debate is Zelda an RPG??


Yes it is.

I mean really would anyone see it otherwise at this point? I think anyone seasoned gamer knows it's basically an RPG... but somehow I wonder... someone could convince me otherwise?

Hmm.. don't know really, I've spent a lot of time playing RPGs and a lot of time playing "Action games" and while most people wouldn't say it I could even say Super Mario qualifies as an RPG at times.. you have an HP bar of 3 hits you have upgrades, power ups, a mount, you collect coins/points and proceed through multiple series of levels I don't know seems like an RPG to me...

That one I don't expect people to agree with but yeah I wanted to throw that out there.

I guess you could make individual cases depending on the game. Adventure of Link for instance could be mistaken for an RPG just because of all the upgrades you make to your HP, MP, Attack, Defense and Magic Proficiency, largely through Exp, while also obtaining new Spells and Special Attacks. Whereas Ocarina of Time only offers HP upgrades since Attack upgrades are either plot locked (Kid Link is stuck with the crappy Koriki Sword, Adult Link defaults to the Master Sword) or are so completely different from your standard weapon that it fits better as a separate item (which is what Majora's Mask and the Oracle games did with their Biggoron's Sword equivalents) and the only MP and Defense upgrades are a one time doubling (the latter coming in extremely late and only serving to make the already negligible amounts of damage most enemies do to your overly inflated HP pool a complete joke).

But then, most Zelda games kinda fall closer to the OoT model where all your weapon upgrades are plot locked and generally one-time affairs and that's if they even offer defense upgrades beyond a nicer looking Shield that doesn't burn when torched (which had largely become irrelevant in terms of upgrades until Skyward Sword).

Yeah I mean it's generally tiny bits but I don't know... nonetheless.

I kind of just think it's hard not to see it as one personally... the biggest thing is no hard turn based element, but then that would jeopardize things like KH or other games which people call RPGs.

At a minimum I just think they're all action RPGs, whatever that is, but more importantly I guess I just think aesthetically and such I play Zelda very much like an RPG which like an extremely deliberate kind of slow pace to everything. It took me like 3 weeks to beat Ocarina or something just playing bits at a time questing basically like it was FF.

Like I look forward to Persona and Zelda for being similar kinds of games... IDK maybe Nintendo is just really unique I think it possibly is often misinterpreted..
« Last Edit: May 23, 2016, 09:57:37 PM by Artimicia » Logged
Ranadiel
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« Reply #223 on: Today at 07:07:34 AM »

The Batman Arkham series or Enslaved are two that come to mind. I'm too tired and in pain to think of any more at the moment, but basically anything that doesn't fit neatly into an existing genre is labeled as "Action-Adventure"
Well Action is just a modifier that refers to the game be in real-time or something close. Adventure I would argue refers to a specific style of game that is nearly dead outside of Zelda where you have to use specific items to solve puzzles to advance. A non-action adventure game example would be Shadowgate. Although I suppose there might be some action games that have somewhat similar ideas, even if not exactly items, like Infamous.

Yeah I mean it's generally tiny bits but I don't know... nonetheless.

I kind of just think it's hard not to see it as one personally... the biggest thing is no hard turn based element, but then that would jeopardize things like KH or other games which people call RPGs.

At a minimum I just think they're all action RPGs, whatever that is, but more importantly I guess I just think aesthetically and such I play Zelda very much like an RPG which like an extremely deliberate kind of slow pace to everything. It took me like 3 weeks to beat Ocarina or something just playing bits at a time questing basically like it was FF.

Like I look forward to Persona and Zelda for being similar kinds of games... IDK maybe Nintendo is just really unique I think it possibly is often misinterpreted..
KH is an Action RPG. The key difference between KH and most Zelda titles is leveling up. I consider that to be the key element to defining something as an RPG. Or more specifically, that the key means of advancing through the game is leveling up (if the game has leveling up for minor unimportant benefits then it just has RPG elements). Leveling up is a specific reference (if you go back to the original RPG video games) to D&D, which is how the name RPG came to be associated with the genre. Primary means of advancement in Zelda is getting better at control (action) and getting new items (adventure). You can kill as many enemies as you want and Link won't start hitting them any harder.
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« Reply #224 on: Today at 07:38:44 AM »

Zelda fails as an RPG at a core level: there's no stat-based progression required to beat the game. Increased heart meter/magic meter doesn't qualify, since tons of games that are clearly not RPGs use those. Zelda is an Action/Adventue game. I agree with Randiel's assessment. Zelda II is obviously an RPG, but none of them others are.
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