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Author Topic: Abrams set to direct Star Wars VII  (Read 4240 times)
Blace
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« Reply #30 on: January 25, 2013, 01:28:10 PM »

(about the latest Star Trek)
I just found the plot to be nonsensical.

This.  My objection to the movie isn't that that it wasn't Trek-ish (though it certainly wasn't), but I don't think it's a very good movie in its own right either.  The actual action scenes are competent enough, but the plot is forced and contrived and the characters are not realistic.  It's all style over substance.

Also, were people really not aware that there was a backlash?  I know lots of people (in real life, even, it's not just an internet thing) who agree on this.

I guess it really depends on if you loved the old ones or not. Most people I know do not or have not seen them, but loved the new one. I can see why older fans would not like the new one. I am not a Trekkie so that's probably why I liked the new film so much. It not a cult thing anymore. You can at least give J.J. credit for making Trek relevant again and not just for the hardcore fanbase.
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Kevadu
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« Reply #31 on: January 25, 2013, 02:06:06 PM »

What?  Didn't I say that my dislike wasn't simply because it wasn't Trek-ish?  How does your response follow...

Here is an excellent dissection of the movie that doesn't resort to comparing it with old Trek.  It just explains why it's a bad movie in its own right.
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Blace
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« Reply #32 on: January 25, 2013, 02:13:52 PM »

What?  Didn't I say that my dislike wasn't simply because it wasn't Trek-ish?  How does your response follow...

Here is an excellent dissection of the movie that doesn't resort to comparing it with old Trek.  It just explains why it's a bad movie in its own right.

Well I was talking more to Annubis than you, but he had quoted you before so I quoted both of you haha.
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dyeager
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« Reply #33 on: January 25, 2013, 03:31:40 PM »

What?  Didn't I say that my dislike wasn't simply because it wasn't Trek-ish?  How does your response follow...

Here is an excellent dissection of the movie that doesn't resort to comparing it with old Trek.  It just explains why it's a bad movie in its own right.

This was an interesting read, thanks for posting it.

I don't agree with this guy's opinion at all on the action sequences though. I thought one thing the new Star Trek/Generic Space Action Film did very well was have coherent action sequences. It was always easy to figure out where everything was in relation to everything else, and they did a good job of the whole big picture/small picture stuff even if the situations themselves seemed ludicrously contrived. Take the sequence when they try to disable the drill for example - lots of elements in play that all came together in a way that made sense, with pretty cool choreography thrown in. Never mind that it seems ridiculous that getting people ON THE DRILL ITSELF was the ONLY POSSIBLE WAY to disable it, but whatever.

Also I did think the character development was just fine. You could argue, as I think this guy is trying to, that the character ARC for Kirk and Spock doesn't make a whole lot of sense (and I might agree with some of that), but that's just one element of what character development is. We get a very good sense during the course of the movie of who these various people are, what they can do, and how they relate to each other. There is not a lot of time for the acting to stretch its legs (also a point made by this fellow), but the characters have very well defined roles and we learn a lot of things about them and how we can expect them to act. That is character development. It counts. They may be caricatures more than characters with lots of depth to them so far, but the groundwork has certainly been laid to explore them if they go that way in the sequel (which remains to be seen).

There are elements of the plot that don't hold up to the barest modicum of scrutiny, but again I'd make the argument that as "Space Action Film", Star Trek Abrams holds up pretty well. Sometimes a candy bar can be just what you need once in awhile, even if it doesn't necessarily enrich you in any meaningful way. I think it's a pretty solid action flick. I wouldn't call it a "great movie" like I'd call Citizen Kane a great movie or anything, and yes of course it could have been better, but it's pretty far from terrible as these things go.

-----

Now, if we talk about it as a STAR TREK movie, in the tradition of the Star Trek universe... well that's another story isn't it? But even if I think it is basically terrible as a traditional Star Trek movie, I can still enjoy it as something new. It doesn't diminish the universe in any way and it takes pains in what passes for the plot to distance itself from that universe, and that means one can always just go back to the old stuff and enjoy it as it exists now.

The new universe is vastly reduced in wonder and the thematic elements that made Star Trek so precious and meaningful to so many - but it can still be simply fun. Sometimes the only thing to do is let go, and that's how I basically chose to handle it because it sure beats being bitter about its existence.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2013, 03:42:48 PM by dyeager » Logged
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« Reply #34 on: January 25, 2013, 06:03:53 PM »

I see Star Trek as a reboot of the movie series. It is not the classic t.v. episodes or movies that some of us remember. There is a connection with the past but with a different tone. There is nothing wrong with doing things different as long as it is good and not a complete shell of what it use to be. I thought the new Star Trek was good and went in a fresh direction.


Here is an excellent dissection of the movie that doesn't resort to comparing it with old Trek.  It just explains why it's a bad movie in its own right.

I see where he is coming from, but any movie can be criticized for glaring "holes" and problems. He citied the Dark Knight as a good example of a defined scene between the villian and hero. I'm sure someone could go through the Dark Knight (and has) and list "problems" that they don't like with the film. Movie-goers are going to have to live with some of the problems in movies that they encounter. I think the key is that movies can't have problems that are so bad that it ruins the over-all value of the movie.
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Aeolus
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« Reply #35 on: January 25, 2013, 07:01:13 PM »

I thought the new Star Trek movie was awful.  Didn't feel like Star Trek at all, just another mediocre action flick full of plot holes and inconsistencies.  And lens flare, lots of lens flare.

Of course, I don't see how Abrams can screw this one up any more than Lucas already did with the prequels...


I'm with you. But it had terrific casting.

Plus they ruined my favorite starship design ever.
= disgusting

= Yoda like

Two days/pages late but....

Hopefully they'll get the design right when it comes time for them to remake the Enterprise A then.
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« Reply #36 on: January 25, 2013, 11:32:55 PM »

I find all of the responses in this topic inadequate. Instead you should look at this picture,

 

And then say, "Hell Yeah!"

EDIT: Oh, and Yoda, I don't know if you just have awesome eyes or my perception is deeply flawed in some way. Maybe both. But I don't see much difference.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2013, 11:34:29 PM by Jimmy » Logged
Hathen
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« Reply #37 on: January 26, 2013, 12:17:09 AM »

I'm another person that wasn't crazy about the new Star Trek movie (Though maybe the second one will be better, we'll see). To me it's a big problem that they made something so radically different in the sense that it lost everything of what Star Trek was about. It's like if they made The Witcher 3 and it ended up being a puzzle game or something. Might as well not even call it Star Trek.

Also I didn't mind the new ship, though I did like the original design better. Nothing's as ugly as the Enterprise D though. Took them like 2 decades to get another Star Trek show on the air and they apparently spent all that time making the ship as ugly as possible.
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Kevadu
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« Reply #38 on: January 26, 2013, 01:14:28 AM »

Also I didn't mind the new ship, though I did like the original design better. Nothing's as ugly as the Enterprise D though. Took them like 2 decades to get another Star Trek show on the air and they apparently spent all that time making the ship as ugly as possible.

Now that's just blasphemy.  The Enterprise D is great.

The Enterprise E, on the other hand, I could never care for.  But fortunately it never really got much screen time.
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Aeolus
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« Reply #39 on: January 26, 2013, 01:27:00 AM »

Say what you will about the Enterprise D, but nothing tops the silliness of Voyager's useless warp necell's repositioning function ("Tilting our engines towards each other by 45 degrees apiece will surely make us go faster." :technobabble::downs:)

Also if I had to choose which starship to jaunt around the galaxy in, I would gladly take a ride on the luxury cruise liner that is the Enterprise D, regardless as to how fat and ugly it was on the outside or how much explodium it was made of. Not even DS9 was as cushy as NCC 1701-D was.


I find all of the responses in this topic inadequate. Instead you should look at this picture,

 

And then say, "Hell Yeah!"

EDIT: Oh, and Yoda, I don't know if you just have awesome eyes or my perception is deeply flawed in some way. Maybe both. But I don't see much difference.

So basically, an even more ghetto looking Death Star 3?


And as to my thoughts on Trek '09, there's nothing anybody could possibly tell me that could convince me that it wasn't a better movie than Nemesis.

What a terrible way to close out TNG.
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Yoda
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« Reply #40 on: January 26, 2013, 10:41:54 AM »

Also I didn't mind the new ship, though I did like the original design better. Nothing's as ugly as the Enterprise D though. Took them like 2 decades to get another Star Trek show on the air and they apparently spent all that time making the ship as ugly as possible.

Now that's just blasphemy.  The Enterprise D is great.

The Enterprise E, on the other hand, I could never care for.  But fortunately it never really got much screen time.

After years you've completely endeared yourself with me. Enterprise D is a work of art. E is a total warship, unlike the things the Federation have built in the past.

The nerdiest thing I own is a deck by deck set of blueprints for the D. I'm proud of that.
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Aeolus
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« Reply #41 on: January 26, 2013, 10:45:50 AM »

Also I didn't mind the new ship, though I did like the original design better. Nothing's as ugly as the Enterprise D though. Took them like 2 decades to get another Star Trek show on the air and they apparently spent all that time making the ship as ugly as possible.

Now that's just blasphemy.  The Enterprise D is great.

The Enterprise E, on the other hand, I could never care for.  But fortunately it never really got much screen time.

After years you've completely endeared yourself with me. Enterprise D is a work of art. E is a total warship, unlike the things the Federation have built in the past.

The nerdiest thing I own is a deck by deck set of blueprints for the D. I'm proud of that.

Can you point out where the one toilet on the ship was?
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« Reply #42 on: January 26, 2013, 11:49:28 AM »

I liked the the new Star Trek, too, but mostly as a fun movie like others said. I actually never watched more than an episode and a few measily clips of the various shows, but yes, I could tell it was different, and I could tell the plot was nonsensicle. But the characters were cool (unrealistic, sure, but that's not what I watch blockbuster action movies for) and the action was great. Wouldn't win any awards from me but I wouldn't mind a Star Wars movie in that vein. It'd at least be better than the Prequel trilogy (which I don't hate, but they were kinda boring for me, special effects aside).
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« Reply #43 on: January 26, 2013, 12:46:57 PM »

Interesting comments from everyone-- though I think Yeager has my thoughts down pretty well.

I still say I'm not worried about this movie. Abrams is a capable director, and with the screenwriters at his disposal and Disney's record at overlording other studios (Marvel!), I see no way this won't be at least better than the prequel trilogy. Come on guys-- it's new Star Wars.
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« Reply #44 on: January 26, 2013, 01:22:22 PM »

True enough. The worst part of Star Trek was creating the setting.
Here he already has one, so it shouldn't be that bad. Same things for Star Trek 2.
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