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Author Topic: R.O.T.  (Read 1702 times)
bum_199
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« on: July 09, 2015, 06:09:56 PM »

This game on kickstarter looks pretty polished but doesnt have much time left.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/889743262/rot-age-of-arius?ref=category
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ZeronHitaro
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« Reply #1 on: July 09, 2015, 08:00:19 PM »

*reads through* Yeah...apologies to the devs for being honest but I can see why it's struggling. It's trying to advertise using the trappings people are dead tired of in Mainstream JRPGs. Let alone Indies. Trying to use a Tsundere-trope directly word for word from the cliche book as your 'character dialog sample' is just the Orthocentric bullet self-delivered on the express lane. I literally cringed as soon as I saw that.
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MeshGearFox
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HERE ON RUM ISLAND WE DO NOT BELIEVE IN RUM!

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« Reply #2 on: July 09, 2015, 08:17:09 PM »

CHARGE AT YOUR NEMESIS
GHOSTRIDE YOUR WHIP
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o/` I do not feel joy o/`
o/` I do not dream o/`
o/` I only stare at the door and smoke o/`

bum_199
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« Reply #3 on: July 09, 2015, 11:39:03 PM »

i guess im in the minority but i feel games try to hard to innovate sometimes when they just need to put care and polish into  the basics. i also prefer indies and jrpgs most of the time. 3d graphics and being able to run all day in an open world is fun but gets old fast. it just seems like the more there is to more explore the less polish and explanation each area gets.
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kkhohoho
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« Reply #4 on: July 09, 2015, 11:56:26 PM »

*reads through* Yeah...apologies to the devs for being honest but I can see why it's struggling. It's trying to advertise using the trappings people are dead tired of in Mainstream JRPGs. Let alone Indies. Trying to use a Tsundere-trope directly word for word from the cliche book as your 'character dialog sample' is just the Orthocentric bullet self-delivered on the express lane. I literally cringed as soon as I saw that.

Didn't see a Tsundere-trope anywhere, (or any in-game dialogue for that matter), but I did take a look at the lead-writers' preferences.

Quote
Favorite Games: Tales of Symphonia, Mana Khelmia, Demikid: Light and Dark
Favorite Animes: Magi, Fairy Tale, Hitman Reborn

No offense to him, but if that's what he sees as the cream of the crop in terms of writing, then I can't exactly have high hopes for the actual games' writing. (Though maybe he can still turn out something good anyway. It happens.)
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Annubis
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« Reply #5 on: July 10, 2015, 12:04:59 AM »

Didn't see a Tsundere-trope anywhere

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ironmage
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« Reply #6 on: July 10, 2015, 01:53:22 AM »

I think the writing in the "Story" section speaks for itself.  I find the sentence structure and word choice both somewhat lacking. I'll refrain from commenting too much on the subject matter.

Quote
Evenly matched in power and intelligence, they decided to deal with their discrepancy through other methods, thus began the Karma War.

That line has a comma splice, "discrepancy" is the wrong word for the context, and the whole thing could be trimmed.

My alternative:
Evenly matched, they resolved to end their dispute another way: The Karma War.

Also:

Quote
Long before the dawn of man, there existed two beings of absolute power and intelligence ... These two beings were known as Jaizen and Amaya.
...
For 500 years, the Exceed fought against each other in the name of their creators ... It had finally dawned on Jaizen that he had allowed Amaya to trick him into giving her what she wants, a world of endless suffering.

A being of absolute intelligence took 500 years to figure out he was being tricked.  That's just awesome.  That makes my day.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2015, 01:56:06 AM by ironmage » Logged
kkhohoho
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« Reply #7 on: July 10, 2015, 10:06:01 AM »

Didn't see a Tsundere-trope anywhere



Ah.

Honestly, I think his heart is in the right place, but I also think the writer should have read more works that weren't generic JRPG&Shonen stories before writing his own game. Sir Terry Pratchet once said that you need to have read/watched other genres in order to write good fantasy, and I think the same applies to any genre, including JRPG stories. Because otherwise, you get, "It's... It's not that I'm worrying about you or anything...!", among other things. I'm not saying he hasn't watched other stuff, he probably has, but if Tales of Symphonia and Fairy Tale rank among his top stories, then I think he needs to mix things up a bit.
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Dincrest
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« Reply #8 on: July 10, 2015, 12:03:57 PM »

First impressions count, and it looks like a generic RPG Maker or Kemco RPG- and those are trite and generic offerings farted out at tremendous rates.  I can appreciate indies being labors of love, but unless they bring something cool to the table, I'm not interested.  Dust: An Elysian Tail was in-fucking-credible.  That was a one man operation.  After seeing and playing Dust, I'm thinking, "Damn, everyone's gotta step up their game now, even the pros!" 

It's like with music.  I value and support local bands/musicians/artists because they're working hard, writing their own music, trying to make it.  I feel like big-name popular bands already have tons of fans, tons of money, and tons of sponsorships, so I'm all about seeing what's "real."  That's why any band's first album is always the best one- because it comes from a real place.  But even if you have a group of excellent musicians, it's for naught if they don't write memorable songs and/or put forth a boring stage performance.  When I was with Pool of Thorns, other bands kinda looked down on us because we weren't the most technical musicians, but we wrote songs that stayed in peoples' heads and we  put forth an explosive stage show.  I've seen plenty of bands who were nice people who were incredibly skilled with their instruments, but I couldn't remember any of their songs and their stage show had no life.  I'd rather see a shitty punk band with wild stage antics than a mediocre metal band. 

Color me not interested in R.O.T. 

I AM interested in Celestian Tales: Old North, though.  Their first Kickstarter failed, but they completely revamped the game, the new Kickstarter was successful, and the demo was fantastic. 
http://www.ekuatorgames.com/
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Games I've given Editor's Choice to:
Ever 17, Hourglass of Summer, Anachronox, Persona PSP, Radiant Historia, To The Moon, Revolution 60
Chronix112
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« Reply #9 on: July 10, 2015, 06:42:43 PM »

This is not just for RPGs but also (especially) VNs, I wish the majority of English  Indie community would not just try to out "J" their respective mediums. Something new and different then the standard fare Story wise would be nice. If I want  tired cliche and tropes I'd just go to the source instead of getting the same with way lower production values.  Something besides the teen protagonist  and his/her rag tag group of adventurer friends save the world, with as many tropes as possible thrown in along the way.
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ZeronHitaro
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« Reply #10 on: July 10, 2015, 08:10:13 PM »

Unfortunately this is more the fault of the consumers than the providers.

Want to make a new JRPG/VN? Well you need money.
How do you get money? Pitch a crowdfund concept.
What do you need to pitch a concept? Art, good art, music usually helps.
Who makes art? Artists.
Who usually can't write well because proper writing and striking art requires major focus on each specialty to reach those skill ceilings? Artists.
Who won't pitch into a Crowdfunding project, even though it has amazing writing, because it has no/poor art examples? Consumers.

That's super simplifying all the elements, but it's fundamentally the truth of the matter.

The market's stuck in a nasty ouroboros right now because it's far too easy for artists/programmers/the janitor to just rely on anime cliches 101. You need writers to innovate the story because they're the people who have the time, focus, skills, ect for that particular thing. Artists, Musicians, each charge a first born and a year's worth of livestock for their services. Writers basically have to offer to maim themselves to even be glanced at. So if you're one or the other of the High-Demand Duo your start up cost is immediately halved and it's just far too easy to not even consider spending a penny on the penmen; more shiny donation perks for your Kickstarter that way.

For a good writer to start up such a project they basically have to be rich to begin with. Rich and Writer are usually antonyms.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2015, 08:20:31 PM by ZeronHitaro » Logged
Dincrest
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« Reply #11 on: July 13, 2015, 10:28:55 AM »

But artists and musicians could make parallel arguments.  As someone who's spent many years playing in gigging bands, I couldn't tell you how many times me or my musician friends have been screwed over.  "Starving artists" right? 

As far as the retro/nostalgia type RPGs go, I'm cool with that trend.  I figure the people behind these projects are folks our age who grew up with certain kinds of RPGs, see a lack in the market of what they (and by extension, others) want, and want to (re)capture that magic/wonder from their childhoods/formative years.  But part of me wants to see it grow up a bit.  Like, let's look at cartoons.  I loved He-Man and Thundercats growing up.  Hearing that classic Thundercats theme song still gives me the warm fuzzies, but watching those 1980s shows now, they're cheesy as fuck.  They were the coolest thing ever when you were a kid, but it's hard to watch them nowadays without face-palming.  Enter He-Man 2002 and Thundercats 2011.  Two shows that were canned too soon, despite the fact that they were GOOD.  They took something we all loved as kids and re-tuned it for current sensibilities.  Nostalgia freaks can cry foul all they want into their rose-colored glasses, but nu He-Man and nu Thundercats had better writing, stronger and more cohesive storylines, better voice acting than their 1980s originals.  It's not the same, but that's what makes it good. 

Of course, we can come up with truckloads of examples of failures.  Look at all the remakes and reboots of 1970s and 1980s movies lately, and most of them were not well done at all.  Most were pale imitations of their originals.  Some films were surprisingly good in their own right (e.g. the new 21 Jump Street films with Jonah Hill and Channing Tatum), but many films felt like phoned-in efforts. 

That's again why, in this glut of "recapture the old (2D) JRPG magic" offerings, the game I'm most interested in is Celestian Tales: Old North http://www.ekuatorgames.com/.  The art, gameplay, and music are great but the writing and storytelling is what looks to be the strong suit. 
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Games I've given Editor's Choice to:
Ever 17, Hourglass of Summer, Anachronox, Persona PSP, Radiant Historia, To The Moon, Revolution 60
ZeronHitaro
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« Reply #12 on: July 13, 2015, 11:35:34 AM »

In the broader senses, pretty true yes. I mean more for the gaming, heck, I'd go so far as to say the entire J-niche.

Artists here are never in trouble. Can you draw a half-way decent anime style piece? Can you do pixel art? If yes to either you automatically get to pay your bills. Individual art pieces like that go for about $10-30 a pop these days, on the LOW end. Wanna make the big money? Just buy a local convention table and debase yourself to drawing Sephiroth in diapers, or whatever the current 'cuteness fetish' is (lord that was a horrible year). You're not going to be driving around in a Ferrari or anything. But out of all my artist friends, contacts, associates I have yet to see a single one ever want for money unless it's something like "OMG the car blew up."

Musicians I know far less about, but judging from the utter proliferation of chiptunes on bandcamp, the professional success of people like SmoothMcGroove, and the fact that music is the biggest 'demand' part of any VN/RPG, anything... I would find it quite safe to assume that anyone without work in that particular niche just isn't looking hard enough. (Hindsight edit: ...yeah, way too harsh. +35 donkey points to me. ~_~; )

Really don't feel qualified to talk about writers in this niche any further than I already have.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2015, 02:27:49 PM by ZeronHitaro » Logged
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