Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
November 28, 2014, 10:51:56 PM

Login with username, password and session length
Search:     Advanced search
We have a new board! Pop on over to the Game Journals section and tell us what you've been playing!
338775 Posts in 13866 Topics by 2217 Members
Latest Member: milz
* Home Help Search Login Register
+  RPGFan Message Boards
|-+  Media
| |-+  Single-Player RPGs
| | |-+  So Final Fantasy XII....
« previous next »
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 Print
Author Topic: So Final Fantasy XII....  (Read 5580 times)
Daedalus
Posts: 45


Member
*


View Profile Email

Ignore
« Reply #30 on: February 12, 2013, 10:38:11 AM »

While I don't like FFXII by any stretch, I really disagree with you that FF was ever synonymous with high quality or even having standards. Probably because there are only three FF games I actually like.

Hmmm.  I think the Final Fantasy name absolutely comes with a label of quality.  The production values are top notch.  That doesn't mean that every game is great, or that I LIKE every game, but I feel like there is a level of quality from those titles that can be counted on.  Maybe we are mixing up our definitions of high quality.  I see it as is this game polished, does it accomplish what it sets out to do, how does it run? 
Logged

"This is your fault. I'm going to kill you. And all the cake is gone. You don't even care, do you?"
GrimReality
Dark Lord of Nostalgia
Posts: 2898


OK, options aren't SO bad

Member
*


View Profile

Ignore
« Reply #31 on: February 12, 2013, 11:08:57 AM »

While I don't like FFXII by any stretch, I really disagree with you that FF was ever synonymous with high quality or even having standards. Probably because there are only three FF games I actually like.
Yeah, I disagree with this completely. Especially after 2 and 3(as they were called in the U.S.) came out for the SNES. For the time, these games were incredible. Then we also got Chrono Trigger and Secret of Mana. From there on, Squaresoft = incredible game. The FF brand meant you were getting something few other publishers would, or even could, do. FFVII, when it came out, was a revelation for a lot of people. I think it wasn't until VIII split the fanbase that the FF brand really started to crumble. Personally, I didn't truly lose hope in them until XIII.
I quite liked XII. It was weird as hell at first, as it was so different from X, but I got used to it, and ended up enjoying the game a lot. It's not often I put 115 hours into a game.
Logged

Playing: DA: Inquisition
Reading: Mistbron#3: Hero of Ages
Yggdrasil
Posts: 6210

Member
*


View Profile Email

Ignore
« Reply #32 on: February 12, 2013, 12:38:32 PM »

The quality of each FF is very "volatile" to say the least. For a long-running series like this one that reinvent itself with each new title there's a lot of factors that goes into what makes a good FF game, I never saw much (if any) discussion about which Dragon Quest game is the best among fans of that series in comparison.

Maybe it has something to do with every DQ game having a sense familiarity to each other while every FF is about something different because of the whole 'reinvention' thing.
Logged
Blace
Posts: 3809


Member
*


View Profile Email

Ignore
« Reply #33 on: February 12, 2013, 06:02:17 PM »

While I don't like FFXII by any stretch, I really disagree with you that FF was ever synonymous with high quality or even having standards. Probably because there are only three FF games I actually like.
Yeah, I disagree with this completely. Especially after 2 and 3(as they were called in the U.S.) came out for the SNES. For the time, these games were incredible. Then we also got Chrono Trigger and Secret of Mana. From there on, Squaresoft = incredible game. The FF brand meant you were getting something few other publishers would, or even could, do. FFVII, when it came out, was a revelation for a lot of people. I think it wasn't until VIII split the fanbase that the FF brand really started to crumble. Personally, I didn't truly lose hope in them until XIII.
I quite liked XII. It was weird as hell at first, as it was so different from X, but I got used to it, and ended up enjoying the game a lot. It's not often I put 115 hours into a game.


I agree with Grim. Until XIII, when a FF game came out it was like an event for me. I knew I was getting an excellent game that I would enjoy for a long time. I even loved FFXII. It was fresh and unique to me and I enjoyed the story even though it wasn't quite as good as previous entries. I was SO hyped for XIII that it eventually became too much and the game never had a chance to live up to the hype, especially considering that the game did not hold up to the standards the series had held until then (at least for me) in the first place. I played XIII for 5 hours and have never gone back, even till this day, and my interest in the series is waning considerably. VSXIII has been in development forever, I hate mmo's and FFXIV got horrendous reviews anyways, and nothing else has been announced. I still have FFXIII and I do want to see how much XIII-2 improved it so I might play it after I finish off Fire Emblem: Awakening, but I have lowered my expectations so much in hopes of just enjoying the game and not expecting the next great JRPG. Who knows, maybe Lightning Returns ends up being the next great JRPG, but I'm not holding my breath.
Logged

MeshGearFox
Posts: 8701


HERE ON RUM ISLAND WE DO NOT BELIEVE IN RUM!

Member
*


View Profile

Ignore
« Reply #34 on: February 12, 2013, 07:59:16 PM »

The FF brand meant you were getting something few other publishers would, or even could, do.

Yyyyyyy Square was the only company really LOCALIZING a lot of their stuff at that time. When you have a limited sample pool, what you DO get's going to seem better/more unique by comparison. In retrospect, the FF games didn't start having unique settings until 6, or unique gameplay mechanics until 5. FF1-4 were about as definitionally generic JRPG as the first four Dragon Quests were.

Secret of Mana and FFVI are objectively a mess in terms of the amount of bugs/things that don't work from a design standpoint in them. They're not well made.

I'm not saying they're not fun but the notion that Square was somehow a pinnacle of originality/a different approach/having a sober QA team just doesn't sit well with reality.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2013, 08:03:28 PM by MeshGearFox » Logged

o/` I do not feel joy o/`
o/` I do not dream o/`
o/` I only stare at the door and smoke o/`

GrimReality
Dark Lord of Nostalgia
Posts: 2898


OK, options aren't SO bad

Member
*


View Profile

Ignore
« Reply #35 on: February 12, 2013, 09:35:50 PM »

That's your opinion, man. I don't recall how old you are, but did you play those games as they were released? And how aware were you of all those other games out there that weren't being localized? I was getting EGM or whatever in the mail, and that's it. There was no internet, it was barely a shred of what it is today. We weren't cluttered with all sorts of nonsense information like we are now.
Those games were special for their time. There were VERY FEW games like them. I was blown away by every game I listed above(I assume you know I was actually referencing IV & VI. I've never played the actual 2 and 3 in the series). Not surprisingly, all those games had fantastic soundtracks, too, which has been known to significantly increase my enjoyment of a game.
I've never been overly nitpicky with videogames. This is kind of what bothers me about the information age. We are filled with so much data long before ever getting to play a game. Most of this is a good thing, but you also get the bad side of it. The obsessive nuts who harp on every little detail. Who seem to be looking for things to bitch about. Or do the reverse and get all hyped up about something that we have no clue how it will turn out. It's why I don't watch many trailers, read any previews, or download demos. It's overkill. I read reviews and listen to word of mouth.
Depending upon who you talk to every Final Fantasy game ever made sucks. I feel kind of bad for some of these people. Personally, I'm glad I was able to enjoy almost every one I've ever played. I don't know if that means I have lower standards, or others are too high. Admittedly, I seem to have different(Not low. Different) standards with games than I do with other forms of entertainment. I'm very picky when it comes to movies, music, and books. I wonder why that is.
Logged

Playing: DA: Inquisition
Reading: Mistbron#3: Hero of Ages
Blace
Posts: 3809


Member
*


View Profile Email

Ignore
« Reply #36 on: February 12, 2013, 09:49:25 PM »

I actually miss those days before the internet spoiled everything. It is half the reason that I rarely read or watch trailers beyond like announcement stuff because I want to go into a game with as little information as possible because I find that the most enjoyable. When I get with a group of friends and they start talking about details in games that aren't out yet I tune it out. Sure I'll read the reviews when the games come out to see if they are worth a damn, but even then I go more towards the opinion part and less about how the game plays etc. Like Grim said, I played FFVII, VIII, IX, X, and XII when they came out and they were absolutely superb games for their time. Honestly you can criticize all older games because they simply have archaic elements that aren't even used anymore like random battles, high encounter rates etc... but to me those games will always be time capsuled to when I first played them. Sure, you can say I need to removed those rose tinted glasses and smell fresh air, but the teenager in me will always get excited about that era of games and how they shaped the gamer that I am today.
Logged

MeshGearFox
Posts: 8701


HERE ON RUM ISLAND WE DO NOT BELIEVE IN RUM!

Member
*


View Profile

Ignore
« Reply #37 on: February 12, 2013, 11:10:43 PM »

That's your opinion, man. I don't recall how old you are, but did you play those games as they were released?

1. FFVI had a number of save-corrupting bugs, and they're easy to trigger inadvertently. That's bad, and there's no way you can argue that away. That's not an opinion -- from a development standpoint the game has critical defects that should not be in a final product.

And I can think of a lot of other, smaller issues in FFVI as well as SD2 and 3. For instance, they all have stats that don't work, and this has other repercussions. SD3, in particular, has a glitch that causes critical hits to never fire either (which results in one of Kevin's class changes being useless). And the really aggravating thing is that ALL OF THESE BUGS WOULD HAVE BEEN TURNED UP BY SIMPLE UNIT TESTING.

You cannot argue that argue that a company's name fairly be associated with quality when there are flagrant gaps in the QA work like that. They were either cutting corners on testing in a huge way, or the devs didn't know or didn't care enough about how the game's mechanics actually worked in order to write develop proper tests.

2. The games as they are now are identical to the games they were when they were released. When I played them is irrelevant.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2013, 11:18:24 PM by MeshGearFox » Logged

o/` I do not feel joy o/`
o/` I do not dream o/`
o/` I only stare at the door and smoke o/`

GrimReality
Dark Lord of Nostalgia
Posts: 2898


OK, options aren't SO bad

Member
*


View Profile

Ignore
« Reply #38 on: February 13, 2013, 12:09:42 AM »

That's your opinion, man. I don't recall how old you are, but did you play those games as they were released?

1. FFVI had a number of save-corrupting bugs, and they're easy to trigger inadvertently. That's bad, and there's no way you can argue that away. That's not an opinion -- from a development standpoint the game has critical defects that should not be in a final product.

And I can think of a lot of other, smaller issues in FFVI as well as SD2 and 3. For instance, they all have stats that don't work, and this has other repercussions. SD3, in particular, has a glitch that causes critical hits to never fire either (which results in one of Kevin's class changes being useless). And the really aggravating thing is that ALL OF THESE BUGS WOULD HAVE BEEN TURNED UP BY SIMPLE UNIT TESTING.

You cannot argue that argue that a company's name fairly be associated with quality when there are flagrant gaps in the QA work like that. They were either cutting corners on testing in a huge way, or the devs didn't know or didn't care enough about how the game's mechanics actually worked in order to write develop proper tests.

2. The games as they are now are identical to the games they were when they were released. When I played them is irrelevant.
You see, I never encountered any save corrupting bug in FFVI. That sucks for anyone who did.
I loved Secret of Mana(SD2?) and don't recall any issues with it. SD3 never even came out in America. I wish I could have played that!
And YES, it DOES matter when a game is played. The gaming world was entirely different in July, 1991, than it was 5, 10, or 15 years later. The game may be the same, but YOU are different, as well as the world around you. Just like if I played FFIV today for the first time there is no way I could enjoy it the same way I did back then. Too much baggage from 21 years of living and gaming. If you don't think that all that effects how you view a game, then I just don't know what else to say. It's kind of like how a song can have an entirely different meaning to you when your 35 than it did when you were 15. It's the exact same song, but your own life experience changed how you see it.
You guys have to understand. I started gaming with the Vic 20, Commodore 64, and the Amiga. We had a Vectrex, Odyssey, Intellivision, etc. I already had a bit of gaming history before the SNES ever showed up. That damn system blew my socks off when we first got it, and pretty much never stopped as great game after great game kept showing up. There's no way playing games like that AFTER subsequent generations have come and gone could affect a person the same way as having played them upon release. No way.
Logged

Playing: DA: Inquisition
Reading: Mistbron#3: Hero of Ages
MeshGearFox
Posts: 8701


HERE ON RUM ISLAND WE DO NOT BELIEVE IN RUM!

Member
*


View Profile

Ignore
« Reply #39 on: February 13, 2013, 12:25:06 AM »

I played Chrono Trigger about four years after it came out. FFVI I played a bit later. And as I said, CT was pretty much my favorite game when I played it, and I loved FFVI.

I also reevaluate my opinions constantly because I don't see any point in putting stock in them. As you said -- people change, and I see no merit and letting myself be bridled by my past.

And I don't have it in for old games as a whole, either. Archaisms don't really bother me.
Logged

o/` I do not feel joy o/`
o/` I do not dream o/`
o/` I only stare at the door and smoke o/`

Kevadu
Posts: 3807


Some guy

Member
*


View Profile Email

Ignore
« Reply #40 on: February 13, 2013, 02:08:08 AM »

1. FFVI had a number of save-corrupting bugs, and they're easy to trigger inadvertently. That's bad, and there's no way you can argue that away. That's not an opinion -- from a development standpoint the game has critical defects that should not be in a final product.

I've played through FFVI at least 10 times front start to finish.  I've probably spent more time in that game than any other video game before or since.  I found almost all the little secrets and things on my own, without ever using a guide.  And I never encountered a save-corrupting bug.  Not once.  I think you exaggerate their prevalance. (Though to be honest I rarely used Relm, because Relm sucks).
Logged

Agent D.
Posts: 3136


"Mage"nt D.

Member
*


View Profile

Ignore
« Reply #41 on: February 13, 2013, 12:18:59 PM »

I can also attest to years of playing FFVI, and never having caught one of those game breaking bugs, though my first time having played ffvi was via rental at blockbuster video. I actually tried playing one of the saved files, which was at hidon's rock, and the airship was glitched and couldn't be boarded...not my fault.
Logged


TASTY!
PotRoast
Posts: 257


Member
*


View Profile

Ignore
« Reply #42 on: February 13, 2013, 03:54:21 PM »

FFXII is my second favorite Final Fantasy (after VI). You know why it's my second favorite? I don't. I just know I had so much fun playing it that in the first 48 hours of owning it I put in 36 hours of play (wew winter break). This does not happen to me with video games. At all. I have a hard enough time sitting down for 2 hours with most games (currently clocking about 45 minutes a day with Knytt Underground). I finally beat FFXII after putting in about 120 hours. You know why it took me that long to beat it? Because it was too fun. In fact, I only beat it so I could actually move on with my video game life and play other stuff.
Logged
Agent D.
Posts: 3136


"Mage"nt D.

Member
*


View Profile

Ignore
« Reply #43 on: February 13, 2013, 03:58:24 PM »

Everyone has a preference...but XII was just so poorly done in terms of story and characters. Even the music was less satisfying than most other FF titles. I give the gambit system praise every time, but fuck XII overall.
Logged


TASTY!
Eusis
Administrator
Posts: 11810


Member
*


View Profile
« Reply #44 on: February 13, 2013, 05:09:03 PM »

I stopped caring too seriously about RPG stories by the time FFXII came out so whatever. I had a lot of fun playing it and running around the world, and I realized awhile back I ENJOY playing FF games more than I enjoy their stories, which makes the direction FFXIII took kind of frustrating, your story's shit go give me good semi-open gameplay instead.

And on that note this is the thing with FF versus DQ: FF keeps shaking it up drastically from game to game, moreso in newer installments but even earlier ones had II scrapping the traditional leveling system in favor of stat building and it kept bouncing back and forth between having a job system and not having a job system. And I think I actually have enjoyed each installment to some extent but II, and I can sorta respect what that went for even if it was an extreme low point for the series. But DQ tends to only go for at most... say, the kind of change from FFIII to FFIV, rather than FFXII to FFXIII, and on a whole comes off as refining more than anything else. Even the MMO basically sounds like playing DQ in a world where other people are playing DQ, not an MMO themed after DQ. Interestingly its low point is ALSO the second game, but it didn't dip as far, it was more like growing pains in expanding the world and adding a party system.
Logged
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 Print 
« previous next »
Jump to:  



Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.20 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!