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Author Topic: Round 3: Advance Wars vs. Fire Emblem  (Read 1484 times)
LINK398
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« on: February 24, 2013, 10:58:09 PM »

Two of Intelligent Systems most popular series' but which one is better? Both games are very similar in their style and I wasn't really sure what to do on this one. Firstly, because of what I just mentioned both games are very similar and secondly I wasn't sure weather or not to keep it to the first games of the series (The ones released in NA) or choose a certain game from each series and compare them. So I'm gonna leave it up to the posters to either just compare the the first GBA releases, choose another game from the series, or compare the entire series' as a whole. What I'm gonna do is just go with the first Fire Emblem as my choice. This game is amazing it is one of the only strategy RPG's I like and I played and re played this game so much. I remember after beating Lyn's story and starting Eliwood's story seeing the great storytelling this game offered and was really amazed at how big the game was. I really enjoyed every aspect of it from the characters, to the extra missions. Just when I thought I completed the game and was done with it Hector mode becomes unlocked and the awesome gameplay starts from the beginning once more. The Translation was great and the class upgrades were really fun. I also found the difficulty to be just about right and the characters not being able to come back once they were taken out in battle really helping the balance of the difficulty. All in all this game is great and in my opinion is the best one to come out still. I enjoyed it more than the sacred stones and the path of radiance although those were also great games.
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Taelus
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« Reply #1 on: February 24, 2013, 11:46:19 PM »

They are pretty different kinds of games, so I don't really think you could compare them 1:1.

That said, I'll take any entry in the Advance Wars series over Fire Emblem any day. Advance Wars is one of my favorite non-PC strategy games ever.
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« Reply #2 on: February 25, 2013, 02:36:30 AM »

The fact that I can have derpery like surrounding a Fighter with Infantry and watch it helplessly sit there until it blows up, or diverting an otherwise decisive enemy advance with a single APC is the reason I'm gonna have to go with Fire Emblem on this one.

That said, these two are different beasts and scratch different itches (FE is SRPG while AW is pure Strategy).

I'll also admit that we've been too long without a Nintendo Wars of some kind.
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« Reply #3 on: February 25, 2013, 07:22:28 AM »

The fact that I can have derpery like surrounding a Fighter with Infantry and watch it helplessly sit there until it blows up, or diverting an otherwise decisive enemy advance with a single APC is the reason I'm gonna have to go with Fire Emblem on this one.
That's an unrealistic and not very strategic scenario. You can theoretically do the same thing in FE by surrounding an archer with melee units.

I can't pick a favorite here, I like both series.
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« Reply #4 on: February 25, 2013, 09:48:04 AM »

I've played more Advance Wars, so I'm automatically biased, but I plan on playing FE: Awakening very soon. That said, I don't think they're comparable since they're not in the same genre. I wish they would hurry up and make a new Advance Wars for 3DS with online play. I'm wondering if the series is dead?
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« Reply #5 on: February 25, 2013, 03:29:50 PM »

The fact that I can have derpery like surrounding a Fighter with Infantry and watch it helplessly sit there until it blows up, or diverting an otherwise decisive enemy advance with a single APC is the reason I'm gonna have to go with Fire Emblem on this one.
That's an unrealistic and not very strategic scenario. You can theoretically do the same thing in FE by surrounding an archer with melee units.

I can't pick a favorite here, I like both series.

The APC thing is totally legit in AW1, and the surrounding Fighters with Infantry is totally doable with AW2 Sensei (who would totally have a use for this given his pro B-Copter portfolio and his ridiculous CO powers).
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« Reply #6 on: February 25, 2013, 07:32:59 PM »

The fact that I can have derpery like surrounding a Fighter with Infantry and watch it helplessly sit there until it blows up, or diverting an otherwise decisive enemy advance with a single APC is the reason I'm gonna have to go with Fire Emblem on this one.
That's an unrealistic and not very strategic scenario. You can theoretically do the same thing in FE by surrounding an archer with melee units.

I can't pick a favorite here, I like both series.

The APC thing is totally legit in AW1, and the surrounding Fighters with Infantry is totally doable with AW2 Sensei (who would totally have a use for this given his pro B-Copter portfolio and his ridiculous CO powers).

Seconded, completely legitimate. Played a ton of those games.

Also, yes, 3DS Advance Wars plz.
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« Reply #7 on: February 26, 2013, 08:32:27 AM »

Levels in AW are designed with forming strategies around the AI's behavior in mind. If the AI didn't focus APCs some levels would be impossible to S rank. Dismissing AW over its AI behavior is a poor reason imo considering levels are designed around manipulating it. In fact taking advantage of poor AI is a keystone of most tactics games in general, so there's no reason to single out AW.

Once again surrounding a fighter with infantry and waiting for it to explode from lack of fuel is unrealistic at best, and I challenge you to find a single AW campaign or war room level where it's a viable strategy for getting a top score.
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« Reply #8 on: February 26, 2013, 12:19:07 PM »

Levels in AW are designed with forming strategies around the AI's behavior in mind. If the AI didn't focus APCs some levels would be impossible to S rank. Dismissing AW over its AI behavior is a poor reason imo considering levels are designed around manipulating it. In fact taking advantage of poor AI is a keystone of most tactics games in general, so there's no reason to single out AW.

Once again surrounding a fighter with infantry and waiting for it to explode from lack of fuel is unrealistic at best, and I challenge you to find a single AW campaign or war room level where it's a viable strategy for getting a top score.

As always, thank you for enlightening us unwashed heathens. We must all just be hallucinating when we disagree with you.
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« Reply #9 on: February 26, 2013, 01:57:07 PM »

Levels in AW are designed with forming strategies around the AI's behavior in mind. If the AI didn't focus APCs some levels would be impossible to S rank. Dismissing AW over its AI behavior is a poor reason imo considering levels are designed around manipulating it. In fact taking advantage of poor AI is a keystone of most tactics games in general, so there's no reason to single out AW.

Once again surrounding a fighter with infantry and waiting for it to explode from lack of fuel is unrealistic at best, and I challenge you to find a single AW campaign or war room level where it's a viable strategy for getting a top score.

No. The ranking criteria is designed around the AI's actions. If IS intentionally meant to design a game around faulty AI then they wouldn't have fixed it in the later games.

And for the love of god, when I pointed out the idea of taking out a Fighter by surrounding it with Infantry, I was not talking about efficiency! I was referring to my greater need to suspend my disbelief while playing AW over FE (and also to a certain Webcomic Strip that I'm too lazy to dig up at the moment).
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« Reply #10 on: March 01, 2013, 04:58:20 AM »

As always, thank you for enlightening us unwashed heathens. We must all just be hallucinating when we disagree with you.
I've done no name calling, no nasty words, no rude strawman arguments, no passive aggressiveness, nothing. I've made my arguments in a neutral fashion. I'm not trying to be condescending or "nothing but negative" at all.

No. The ranking criteria is designed around the AI's actions. If IS intentionally meant to design a game around faulty AI then they wouldn't have fixed it in the later games.

And for the love of god, when I pointed out the idea of taking out a Fighter by surrounding it with Infantry, I was not talking about efficiency! I was referring to my greater need to suspend my disbelief while playing AW over FE (and also to a certain Webcomic Strip that I'm too lazy to dig up at the moment).
If the AI didn't focus on APCs in AW1, quite a few maps would be impossible to S rank. Changing the AI would drastically alter how the maps play out, and may make some of them impossible. Figuring out the AI is part of solving some of the maps, it's not a matter of "flawed" or "fixed". If you don't figure the AI out, regardless of whether you consider its behavior "flawed", you're not getting a S rank. Furthermore, you don't know why they decided to change the AI in later games. It's impossible to read the developer's minds about their "intent", unfortunately.

Appeal to realism in Advance Wars vs Fire Emblem? Your belief should already be highly suspended when playing these sorts of games, imo. There is no enemy pass through in Fire Emblem either, and you could make the same sorts of arguments. Not that I think appeal to realism makes much sense in these sorts of games.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2013, 05:10:36 AM by mjrpgfan » Logged
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« Reply #11 on: March 01, 2013, 12:39:34 PM »

Annnyways, I think I'd skew more towards Fire Emblem once we enter the Advance Wars: Days of Ruin territory. That's the only game I wasn't enthralled with, even though by all accounts it should have been my favorite. It just felt like something was missing.
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« Reply #12 on: March 01, 2013, 01:01:59 PM »

Annnyways, I think I'd skew more towards Fire Emblem once we enter the Advance Wars: Days of Ruin territory. That's the only game I wasn't enthralled with, even though by all accounts it should have been my favorite. It just felt like something was missing.

No arguments there. Days of Ruin felt stripped of some features Dual Strike had, like the War Room. Days of Ruin, however, is the most balanced AW game. After finishing the campaign and doing some single player maps and messing around with wi-fi I just stopped playing it. If I had a friend that I could play multiplayer with, then I would because it's a very fun game.

Does Fire Emblem Awakening have any local multiplayer?
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« Reply #13 on: March 01, 2013, 02:03:29 PM »

Annnyways, I think I'd skew more towards Fire Emblem once we enter the Advance Wars: Days of Ruin territory. That's the only game I wasn't enthralled with, even though by all accounts it should have been my favorite. It just felt like something was missing.

No arguments there. Days of Ruin felt stripped of some features Dual Strike had, like the War Room. Days of Ruin, however, is the most balanced AW game. After finishing the campaign and doing some single player maps and messing around with wi-fi I just stopped playing it. If I had a friend that I could play multiplayer with, then I would because it's a very fun game.

Does Fire Emblem Awakening have any local multiplayer?

It does, but not in the competitive sense. Instead you and your partner pick a unit to pair up against a series of foes for a nominal reward of some kind.
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« Reply #14 on: March 02, 2013, 10:03:20 AM »

I think that Advance Wars 2 and Advance Wars: Dual Strike are better than any Fire Emblem game that I've beaten (4, 6, 7, 8, and the DS remake of 3.1), especially when you throw in multiplayer.  Days of Ruin wasn't very good, but neither was Radiant Dawn.  I'm going to give AW the edge for fun multiplayer and for how awesome Dual Strike is. 
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