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Subject: Persona 3: FES
Prize: $20 eShop, PSN or Steam code
Date: 3rd October 2014 Time: 16:00 EST
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Author Topic: Final Fantasy XIV: ARR, a Thread Reborn  (Read 137282 times)
Klutz64
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« Reply #1770 on: January 25, 2014, 09:49:45 AM »

I certainly have no qualms with how anyone chooses to enjoy their MMOs. But I personally feel like if I have to submit an application to play a game something has gone horribly wrong.
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Anain
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« Reply #1771 on: January 25, 2014, 02:49:34 PM »

Well, it's an application to join the fc. They are obviously more hardcore endgame wise. I'd love to have a good fc on Hyperion, but I don't have time for that lol I did get geared in full dark light finally though.
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DrGonzo
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« Reply #1772 on: January 25, 2014, 03:49:21 PM »

Decent number of us playing, remember to choose either Hyperion, Coeurl or maybe Ultros if you want to run into RPGFan folkses though
I'm on Brynhildr so I guess I won't. If anyone else is on here, feel free to meet up with me!
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Chronix112
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« Reply #1773 on: January 25, 2014, 03:54:00 PM »

Our FC is anything but hardcore. most people in the FC are older and work. Most members do not log on until whatever time they are in primetime. I have played mmos for over 10 years and most guilds worth being in have some form of application/recruiting process. It serves as a check to see if you really want to join the guild. It also checks whether you meet or they meet your expectations in what you/they are looking for in a guild. Loyalty, people who went through the effort of going through the recruitment  process are less likely to guild hop. Serves as a form of quality  control to limit drama. You still get drama queens occasionally, but its far less then open anyone can join recruiting. As a whole Solaris is a close nit group where everyone pretty much gets along. and has very little drama. I am pretty sure Arliman wants to keep it that way.
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kyuusei
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« Reply #1774 on: January 25, 2014, 04:02:45 PM »

Beat Ultima after not even giving it a shot for two weeks. Second part with the magitek bits (being on the outside) and airships droppping always threw me for some reason and where people kept dying. Went better once we bunched up in the middle, lol. What do people do if not the tank LB method? Sacrifice a player to blow up the last set of bombs solo?

I kind of want to do it again and hope the striking ring drops.

I would say (not being a member of, but playing with them often) that Solaris is a serious group, but friendly and super helpful at the same time, and it's pretty much what Chronix said. They're not the 'lrn2play nub' sort. It's highly likely that if I wasn't in another (smaller/pretty private/mostly friends) FC, I'd be with Solaris.
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Chronix112
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« Reply #1775 on: January 25, 2014, 07:20:44 PM »

I am not really happy with half the stuff addressed in the live letter. It is extremely short sighted with no long term thought. I am happy with the lockout being taken away from coil 1-4 what I am not happy about is them nerfing it into the ground in order for it to be stuck on df. Turn 1-4 as is not really hard it just take coordination and t4 is nothing more the competency /gear check. T5 is the only real challenging turn. I can see why they would nerf T5.  They are giving us 6-9 and more extreme primals. Seems like the  direction SQ Enix is headed is constant gear resets and throwing us more of the same type content repeatedly. Yay for more vertical progression!  People were at able to down t1-5 in  Ilv 70 gear in an instance we were technically not supposed to be doing.  Unless t6-9 is ball to the walls hard people who already do 1-5 in current difficulty are  gonna have that on farm within a month, those new primal extremes within 3 days possibly less. What I really hope is 6-9 are actual raid content instead of glorified 8 man boss runs.  Of course the player base skill level as a whole already low enough  that the answer to everything is in PF "If i can't beat it raise Item lvl requirements, surely that will get it done!" What are these people gonna do when they hit t6 where there is no out gearing the content?
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Annubis
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« Reply #1776 on: January 25, 2014, 08:14:28 PM »

What are these people gonna do when they hit t6 where there is no out gearing the content?

Go post on the forum.
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Hathen
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« Reply #1777 on: January 25, 2014, 08:24:12 PM »

I hate vertical progression too, but that's modern MMOs for you. Oh well.
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Chronix112
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« Reply #1778 on: January 25, 2014, 08:50:45 PM »

I hate vertical progression too, but that's modern MMOs for you. Oh well.
It is also the reason most of them go ftp within a year. You can't make content fast enough to keep the player bases attention before the next shinny new mmo comes out. I hate that every mmo tries to take this WoW post Burning Crusade  approach, only to crash and burn, and  end up ftp cause they are not WoW. 
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Tenchi-no-Ryu
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« Reply #1779 on: January 26, 2014, 01:51:45 AM »

I can somewhat agree with what you're saying Chronix. I'm delighted at Coil being more accessible but with easy Myth and CT gear, a nerf wasn't needed at all. They're just going to make people chew through the content faster. Personally, I don't mind vertical progression if it's done sensibly. An MMO is, after all, about progression. If SE can churn out content every 3 months with the itemization necessary to progress, and the challenge to make overcoming these obstacles feel worthwhile, let's play ball. However, we also need to understand that Yoshida considers Coil a part of the storyline and as such I can entirely see it's adjustment to make its completion possible for all players.  However, unless they plan on making Allagan gear the new Darklight, they really need to revamp the rewards for Coil 1-5 via DF or we're going to end up with gear inflation really quickly.

 Face it, the vast majority of people who play the game just simply aren't going to put in the time to master these fights. I mean look at the Turn 2 enrage exploit. Turn 2 is one of the coolest mechanics in the game because your group has to learn to adjust to rapidly changing conditions and everyone has to play well. When you win legitimately, it's a great rush! The majority of the players could care less and will abuse the exploit for the easy win for loot.

I really feel sorry for the devs because they're treading that fine line between two camps and trying their best to make the game accessible for the majority but challenging and rewarding enough to keep people motivated to keep playing. Every time I feel like the game has been dumbed down, I run a DF group and realize just how hard some of these encounters can be with players who just aren't there yet with skill/gear/etc.
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« Reply #1780 on: January 26, 2014, 01:57:27 AM »

I hate vertical progression too, but that's modern MMOs for you. Oh well.

I never quite understood the disdain people have for vertical progression. I'm somewhat baffled by what other progression you consider more appropriate? Even with "lateral" progression, you still end up with min-maxing and a fuckton of incidental and situational gear that you have to grind to get anyway.  So instead of trading out one suit, you have a closetful of outfits you might wear once a year. I fail to see why this is a better option?
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Tenchi-no-Ryu
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« Reply #1781 on: January 26, 2014, 02:13:40 AM »

I certainly have no qualms with how anyone chooses to enjoy their MMOs. But I personally feel like if I have to submit an application to play a game something has gone horribly wrong.

You're entirely entitled to feel that way but you have to remember that as a group oriented activity, raiding requires dedication from the individual as well as from the group. An application process is to ensure both parties know what they bring to the table respectively. If a player isn't willing or able to come into the relationship with an understanding of what the group needs, and the group isn't able to clearly state what they can provide, then the entire exchange ends up being a waste of time for both parties.

Because raiding endgame, especially cutting edge content, requires a significant time commitment an application process really helps everyone involved. Solaris isn't a hardcore raiding FC. A lot of our players have done the hardcore thing and a lot of them haven't. We don't take attendance, use a point system or squabble over loot or get bent out of shape if people can't raid. We are however, serious about people's time. We all have jobs, families, other responsibilities outside the game. So it's in our best interest to make sure we recruit like-minded people who want to do content, have the level of dedication (not zealotry) and capacity to do said content. Solaris has been like family for a looooong time. 11 years and counting . We've almost always recruited new Members internally so with an open recruitment, we want to make sure we're getting folks that are a good fit. It's about preserving and enriching the community we have and maintaining the momentum we've achieved.
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Tenchi-no-Ryu
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« Reply #1782 on: January 26, 2014, 02:18:00 AM »

What do people do if not the tank LB method? Sacrifice a player to blow up the last set of bombs solo?

We actually wondered that for a while, then Chursen discovered, in a PUG, that the damage is just like Twintania's fireball. The damage is split based on how many people are in range when it goes off. If 4-5 people move as a unit to detonate the orbs, they take minimal damage. When we did this we did not have to waste the LB on the tank shield.
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Hathen
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« Reply #1783 on: January 26, 2014, 02:41:53 AM »

I hate vertical progression too, but that's modern MMOs for you. Oh well.

I never quite understood the disdain people have for vertical progression. I'm somewhat baffled by what other progression you consider more appropriate? Even with "lateral" progression, you still end up with min-maxing and a fuckton of incidental and situational gear that you have to grind to get anyway.  So instead of trading out one suit, you have a closetful of outfits you might wear once a year. I fail to see why this is a better option?

For me it's like a trading card game, when you design lateral progression well it lets people form new strategies that isn't simply "wear the highest tier of armor". Subconsciously I like seeing numbers go up as much as any other RPG player but when you make it so straightforward it makes it very boring to plan your character's progression (The same complaint I would level at the cross class skills being too restrictive, stat points being overall meaningless because you'd rarely invest in anything but your primary stat etc). That's why there's a token cap (myth in this case) in MMOs that choose to do this, because they'll dripfeed peoples' ability to clear the content since there's only really one direction to go (In hindsight it's kind of funny to see people defend this when a lot of the same people were shitting on the fatigue system in vanilla XIV for basically doing the same thing).

Take for example Pokemon's lateral progression every generation. It's true that a lot of those new Pokemon end up being throwaways in competitive battling, but every generation the introduction of new species, new moves, new types, new abilities etc make people think about how to adjust their strategies to combat all the situations they may run into. Previously unviable combos may suddenly become attractive again when used in synergy with other abilities/options. That sort of complexity isn't achieved when all you do is make a bunch of numbers on the players go up, you're usually just making people repeat the same thing with bigger numbers and people eventually see it for what it is.

On that note, perhaps the problem isn't so much that they're asking us to throw away all our old stuff, but rather the "spend another 8 hours per week doing the same sort of grind you already did, just in a different dungeon, so you can get to the content you actually want to play". Most people would probably just go "why don't I go play a game where i'm actually having fun, immediately". The first grind up maybe it's kind of novel, then you quickly realize you're just doing the same thing patch to patch. You're not throwing in any new elements other than visually, you're just asking people to start over a tedious grind gameplay-wise.

I honestly would love an MMO to try out something similar to XI's gearswap system someday, but in a way that actually makes sense as well as making the game designed to support it from the get-go (like maybe instead of swapping out entire suits of armor you're swapping out magical runes during battle etc, also avoid the huge problem the game had with inventory).

XIV's biggest draw for me right now are the fights themselves. I have a lot of fun challenging the boss fights and mastering them. The RPG side of the game isn't interesting in the least, though.
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kyuusei
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« Reply #1784 on: January 26, 2014, 04:34:29 AM »

What do people do if not the tank LB method? Sacrifice a player to blow up the last set of bombs solo?

We actually wondered that for a while, then Chursen discovered, in a PUG, that the damage is just like Twintania's fireball. The damage is split based on how many people are in range when it goes off. If 4-5 people move as a unit to detonate the orbs, they take minimal damage. When we did this we did not have to waste the LB on the tank shield.

Yeah.. I knew the first part, we actually did Ultima with Chursen a few times tonight and we still used the tank LB method.  We were a little too early one time, but survived. I guess the LB is to make sure everyone was alive enough to DPS his/the Magitek bits' ass down before he could cast Ultima?

It's such a neat fight, music and everything. A good one for dodging practice, even when internet and being on a PS3 don't cooperate so well...

I do hope that Coil isn't too easy after the patch, hopefully they just do the Echo thing and that's it. I also wish they wouldn't nerf Pharos Sirius (even if I had trouble fighting Siren earlier), rather make the dungeon drop better gear. =P
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