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Author Topic: XBOX: A New Generation Revealed, May 21st  (Read 33777 times)
MeshGearFox
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« Reply #345 on: June 08, 2013, 06:05:18 PM »

Quote
and while I've never tried Steam in offline mode, I imagine that eventually it stops letting people play their games.

From what I can gather, the steam service itself either has no time limit on offline mode, or it requires once-a-month reverification.

Individual games might require a constant internet connection though.

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I don't think most $400 laptops will run games very well...

My laptop was under 300 and while it doesn't run games GREAT, it can handle, like Dark Souls just fine with some tweaking. And I don't even have a proper GPU. A 400 dollar laptop would definitely be QUITE serviceable for gaming. Actual gaming laptops are generally in the 500 to 1000 dollar range.

And the XBoxOne, based on the rumors I'm hearing, might also end up in the 500 to 1000 dollar range.

Quote
Still, much like Kevadu, I just take issue with the implication that Steam is a 'free service,' because the price of entry is whatever you pay to get a PC capable for your own individual need.

Steam is a free service because there's no subscription fee for using steam. XBL is not a free service because it does entail a subscription fee.

There's nothing else to it.
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« Reply #346 on: June 08, 2013, 08:55:13 PM »

I think it's important to note that we are comparing Software and Firmware. If I want a gaming PC, I'm not tied down to using Steam, but if I wanted an XB1 I'd have no choice but to deal with their draconian ownership policies.

Yeah, that's how I pretty much took that point.  You can use Steam, but you could also use Origin (nope.avi), Amazon Direct Download, or direct from the manufacturer.

Aren't steam games like dirt fucking cheap? Also, isn't steam a free to use service on existing PCs? Meaning no membership fees?

You all know that in order to use the cloud gaming service, you're gonna be paying for xbl gold. Yeah it's only 5 bucks a month, but now that's added to the game cost, which is still going to be 60 dollars per title. Another point, aren't pc titles generally 10-20 dollars cheaper than console variants?

Long story short steam wins because it isn't a massive ripoff.

When it's on sale, yeah things can get pretty cheap.  I got Ys Origins for like 7 dollars.  I agree that people will probably have to pay for XBL Gold to use the cloud as well (mmm all that advertising).

Regardless exclusives or not, I'll definitely be passing on the Xbone.

Quote
he XBoxOne, based on the rumors I'm hearing, might also end up in the 500 to 1000 dollar range.
Even at 500, that's gonna be a tough sell to people.
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« Reply #347 on: June 08, 2013, 09:06:35 PM »

Sounds like it's actually probably not going to be too expensive to manufacture either the X1 or the PS4 so they could probably top out at $400. Would be kind of amazing though if Microsoft also went "fuck reasonable pricing."
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ZshadeZ
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« Reply #348 on: June 08, 2013, 11:20:15 PM »

The last time I stood behind a console entirely was the Dreamcast... we all know how that one ended up. Sony basically managed to kill the Dreamcast based entirely on the conference, and I'll admit that this time around I'm actually looking forward and hoping the same thing happens again.

I want MS to take the stage as Sega once did and show off all of their tv connectivity and game trade/sell/etc issues and announce a price of $499, and Sony to walk out a bit later and say "You can trade/sell games like always. $400."

If GE insisted you connect your fridge to the internet daily so they can do a security check, and you had to give them 10% in order to sell your old fridge the entire world would laugh at them. I don't pay the manufacturer or producer when I resell a couch, tv, bluray fridge, taco, shirt, etc...  and a game should be no different.
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Haven
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« Reply #349 on: June 09, 2013, 12:02:11 AM »

Sounds like it's actually probably not going to be too expensive to manufacture either the X1 or the PS4 so they could probably top out at $400. Would be kind of amazing though if Microsoft also went "fuck reasonable pricing."

So far, I would not be too shocked to see the most complete XB1 cost 599 or 649 USD. They also released a micro-laptop way behind the tablet market that was priced pretty high as the trend moved towards less expensive, smaller units.  Reasonable pricing does not seem to be a reasonable expectation.
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MeshGearFox
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« Reply #350 on: June 09, 2013, 12:52:45 AM »

Sounds like it's actually probably not going to be too expensive to manufacture either the X1 or the PS4 so they could probably top out at $400. Would be kind of amazing though if Microsoft also went "fuck reasonable pricing."

So far, I would not be too shocked to see the most complete XB1 cost 599 or 649 USD. They also released a micro-laptop way behind the tablet market that was priced pretty high as the trend moved towards less expensive, smaller units.  Reasonable pricing does not seem to be a reasonable expectation.

Doesn't Microsoft sell their consoles at a loss? What if they try to get away from that? Windows 8 didn't have a terribly stellar launch. They could use some extra cashflow.
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« Reply #351 on: June 09, 2013, 01:01:33 AM »

If, in fact, the new consoles are more or less going PC style distribution, give us some sales like Steam does. It would go a long way to pacifying the masses. Its going to be an interesting ride over the next few years.
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« Reply #352 on: June 09, 2013, 02:49:02 AM »

Sounds like it's actually probably not going to be too expensive to manufacture either the X1 or the PS4 so they could probably top out at $400. Would be kind of amazing though if Microsoft also went "fuck reasonable pricing."

So far, I would not be too shocked to see the most complete XB1 cost 599 or 649 USD. They also released a micro-laptop way behind the tablet market that was priced pretty high as the trend moved towards less expensive, smaller units.  Reasonable pricing does not seem to be a reasonable expectation.

Doesn't Microsoft sell their consoles at a loss? What if they try to get away from that? Windows 8 didn't have a terribly stellar launch. They could use some extra cashflow.
Does the financial performance of Microsoft's gaming division have any impact on their PC development? I know they're trying to integrate all their OSes and devices into a cohesive whole, but it seems odd to me that it would.
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Agent D.
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« Reply #353 on: June 09, 2013, 03:04:51 AM »

I'm thinking right now, all Sony has to do is just release their system as an upgraded PS3 with nothing new outside of possible 4k support for game titles in the future (though I believe they already said no to that), and they will have successfully destroyed MS this next generation. Microsoft's could save themselves if they dropped the system cost to fucking beans and just charged monthly fees for everything. Imagine a premium package service for xbone with full video on demand, sports on demand, and games for something like 30 bucks a month? Honestly, I could accept that as a solid service. 1 million people paying for said service a month, that's 30 mil a month. It's not too shabby on paper.

Most of the bitching about the used game shit is just because of pricing. This would solve that problem. Drm arguements would be alleviated, as it's established that it's a membership based service. Kinect's "always online" is still a problem, but meh. To be honest, I'd prefer MS get things right and advance gaming to new levels, not fuck shit up to new lows.
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« Reply #354 on: June 09, 2013, 03:16:51 AM »

Its going to be an interesting ride over the next few years.

"Interesting" is not the most appropriate word if you ask me...

I'd prefer MS get things right and advance gaming to new levels, not fuck shit up to new lows.

I've never honestly seen Microsoft interested in gaming. And I don't know how is there people out there still giving them the benefit of the doubt after all of this.
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MeshGearFox
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« Reply #355 on: June 09, 2013, 03:37:08 AM »

Sounds like it's actually probably not going to be too expensive to manufacture either the X1 or the PS4 so they could probably top out at $400. Would be kind of amazing though if Microsoft also went "fuck reasonable pricing."

So far, I would not be too shocked to see the most complete XB1 cost 599 or 649 USD. They also released a micro-laptop way behind the tablet market that was priced pretty high as the trend moved towards less expensive, smaller units.  Reasonable pricing does not seem to be a reasonable expectation.

Doesn't Microsoft sell their consoles at a loss? What if they try to get away from that? Windows 8 didn't have a terribly stellar launch. They could use some extra cashflow.
Does the financial performance of Microsoft's gaming division have any impact on their PC development? I know they're trying to integrate all their OSes and devices into a cohesive whole, but it seems odd to me that it would.

Probably not directly, but a loss of income in one department is still a loss of income, and positive income in one department is still positive income. Investors get antsy if they see a lot of stuff not making money.
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Agent D.
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« Reply #356 on: June 09, 2013, 04:04:23 AM »

Its going to be an interesting ride over the next few years.

"Interesting" is not the most appropriate word if you ask me...

I'd prefer MS get things right and advance gaming to new levels, not fuck shit up to new lows.

I've never honestly seen Microsoft interested in gaming. And I don't know how is there people out there still giving them the benefit of the doubt after all of this.
I'm not giving them the benefit of the doubt, as the red ring fiasco established my dislike of MS in general. I'm simply saying that hoping for their imminent failure does nothing for any of us. If they fail, they go down kicking and screaming, pulling many people down with them. I'd rather see progress made over obvious failures.
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« Reply #357 on: June 09, 2013, 10:28:44 AM »

I've never honestly seen Microsoft interested in gaming.

Then you weren't paying attention when the original Xbox debuted, nor were you paying attention with the Xbox 360's launch era.  J Allard and Robbie Bach cofounded Microsoft's Entertainment and Devices division, and they were passionate about what they did.  Xbox 360 launched with developer friendly tools, cutting-edge powerful hardware that was easy to develop for, and a cohesive, well-thought-out online gaming infrastructure that made PSN look like a giant clusterfuck when it debuted, and the achievement system that has become very loved by the gaming public.  It was so loved that Steam added one of their own, MMOs have incorporated them, and Sony shoehorned in one themselves.

The RROD was nasty, but that had more to do with the inability to use lead solder due to European Union requirements, which engineers failed to account for in both Xbox 360 and PS3.  The PS3's YLOD is a bit of an issue in the fat models, and it's the same core problem for both platforms with the lead-free solder and the inability to transfer heat from the GPU effectively.  For the record, I'm on my second Xbox 360 and PS3.

Microsoft actively courted Japan, desperately trying to get JRPGs onto the platform.  They had limited success, but for a time during the first three years or so, the Xbox 360 had more JRPGs than the PS3 did.  We can debate the quality of some of the titles of course, but Tales of Vesperia, Star Ocean 4, Lost Odyssey, Blue Dragon, and so forth were all available on Microsoft's platform.  Some were ported to the PS3 over time, but some were not.  Mass Effect was a thing thanks to Microsoft Game Studios putting forth the money as publisher.

You can argue the company's various missteps, but I don't see how anyone can say that Microsoft wasn't ever interested in gaming.  The evidence is there showing otherwise.  Hell, look at the reviews section for both platforms.  The list of available RPGs to play is respectable for both.

Allard and Bach both left Microsoft at the same time back in 2010.  It pretty much screamed "uh oh" and that the bean counters had taken over.  The end result is... well... pretty much what we have now.  Xbox Live, instead of innovating online gaming and staying ahead of the competition, has been surpassed by Sony's PS+ because Microsoft stopped working on new features.  Xbone was debuted with a focus on people that watch sports programming.  The platform doesn't have mature development tools.  The hardware isn't particularly impressive.

So yeah, Microsoft doesn't give the impression that they're interested in gaming anymore.  But they definitely used to be.
« Last Edit: June 09, 2013, 10:34:30 AM by Parn » Logged
Aeolus
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« Reply #358 on: June 09, 2013, 10:42:56 AM »

Allard and Bach both left Microsoft at the same time back in 2010.  It pretty much screamed "uh oh" and that the bean counters had taken over.  The end result is... well... pretty much what we have now.  Xbox Live, instead of innovating online gaming and staying ahead of the competition, has been surpassed by Sony's PS+ because Microsoft stopped working on new features.  Xbone was debuted with a focus on people that watch sports programming.  The platform doesn't have mature development tools.  The hardware isn't particularly impressive.

So yeah, Microsoft doesn't give the impression that they're interested in gaming anymore.  But they definitely used to be.

This explains so much.

Like why the last 2 years of MS E3 conferences have been the exact same affair (just with an extra or larger integer following some titles than last year). Also explains the shoe commercial in the middle of the goddamn conference that ran for entirely too long last year as well.

Yeah, the XBone is XBoned.
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« Reply #359 on: June 09, 2013, 04:58:39 PM »

@Parn: Even with the story lesson I am not going to change my opinion.

And I know what they were doing years ago, and now all that effort seems to be thrown out of the window with Xbox One. It doesn't change anything.
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